Considering beginning martial arts (need advice)
Eric Wyles
I'm sure that this question is asked here frequently, but I'll go ahead and
see what kind of response I get.
I'm very interested in beginning some type of martial arts training. I'm not
as interested in doing something that is training for street fighting or
whatever, I would just like to get in good shape, learn some basic self
defense, and have fun doing it.
For the past two nights I have taken free lessons at a local Taekwondo
academy to check it out and see if I like it. I liked the basic training,
but I was not impressed with the instructor. It seemed he was very
interested in teaching us to hurt people and seemed to get a big kick out of
the idea that he knew how to hurt people. He also made some comments along
the lines that anyone who trained with him very long was going to be a black
belt. When he showed me the pricing information, it was a set price for the
first 10 months, after which the student should become a green belt. I was
very skeptical of this whole attitude and I have decided not to return to
that school.
So, my questions really are, considering my interests, would karate be a
good art for me to check in to? Also, are schools like what I described
typical or does it sound like I just got hooked up with a not so great
place?
Any advice you could give would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Eric
Adam Selene
Don't judge any single style of karate by one instructor. It sounds
like you should avoid this particular dojo like the plague.
I think the best advice I can give you is to visit every dojo within a
reasonable commuting distance and watch a couple of sessions at each
plase. You should watch one white belt session to see how newbies are
treated, and watch one black belt session to see if that is what you
want to learn to do.
I currently do ninjutsu (ninja) and I really love the way the
instructors treat us, especially the little kids. They focus on
avoiding fights and to "think about how you would feel if you broke
someone's arm or even their neck when all they did was push you..."
And then they proceed to teach you how to do just that if you REALLY
need to.
Don't sign anything until you're sure that this is the place you
belong - you will spend a lot of time, and a lot of heart and soul, in
this place.
Good luck.
-Adam
>
>Thanks,
>Eric
>
>
Robert Lee
After many years of training, I can tell you this: martial arts are like
smart weapons, they rarely work. The point is the techniques are highly
stylized and idealized. You have to very good to be able to do the stuff you
see in movies in a real fight. Demos don't count. In reality, fighting (if
it comes to that) breaks down to basics: fairly sloppy punching, kicking,
and wrestling. This is why Brazilian Jujitsu is so effective. They focus on
the basics of fighting and conditioning. Ditto with boxing. But I don't
consider Brazilian Jujitsu a martial art, not in the classical or
traditional sense. It's too much martial without much of the art.
After a long absence I hope to get back to karate. I do it because I find
the katas (prearranged forms) to be an art form. I find the training help
keep me in shape and the mental discipline to be invaluable in life. Yes,
you will be able to defend yourself with training, more so than without, but
remember size and brute strength does matter. Also the fancier the move the
less likely it is going to work. More likely, you're get into trouble. For
example, a high kick will expose your groin or you slip on the non-dojo
street surface and hurt yourself.
Personally, I prefer the old school martial arts schools that emphasize
developing the whole person. Avoid schools that only focus on tournament
competition (like the bad karate studio in the Karate Kid movies). Avoid
low ranking instructors. I know, this might offend some, but a first degree
black is basically an advanced beginner. In the old days (in the Asian
countries), you went from white to black and then you work you way up the
various black belt rankings. Color belts are good for us self-esteem
conscious Americans. Also look for instructors who can trace their martial
art lineage. Who was his instructor and so on until you can reach back to
the founder of the particular martial art or some well known master. There
are a lot of self proclaimend masters out there and I think too many people
who change one or two things and claim they founded a new style of martial
art. Nonsense.
One last thing, when I got my black belt, it wasn't necessarily that I could
beat all the brown belts. In fact, I couldn't. It was because I had
mastered the basics and shown a mental toughness deserving of the rank. The
tougher, stronger you are, the harder and higher the standards ought to be
for you to get your black belt. Don't get me wrong, there are some minimal
standards but a good instructor isn't going to penalize you if you're say a
woman (assuming women are physically weaker than men) or a bid on the old
side. A long time ago I was a white belt and I sparred this kid (about
60 -70 lbs) who was wearing a brown belt. He jumped into the air and kicked
me into the chest and then he felt backward on the dojo floor. Now, did this
kid deserve his brown belt? Yes he did. He achieved a level of physical
conditioning and skill that was appropriate for his age and size. It isn't
only about fighing.
Good luck in your quest.
Robert
Adam Selene
wrote:
>Eric,
>
>After many years of training, I can tell you this: martial arts are like
>smart weapons, they rarely work. The point is the techniques are highly
>stylized and idealized. You have to very good to be able to do the stuff you
>see in movies in a real fight. Demos don't count. In reality, fighting (if
>it comes to that) breaks down to basics: fairly sloppy punching, kicking,
>and wrestling. This is why Brazilian Jujitsu is so effective. They focus on
>the basics of fighting and conditioning. Ditto with boxing. But I don't
>consider Brazilian Jujitsu a martial art, not in the classical or
>traditional sense. It's too much martial without much of the art.
>
>After a long absence I hope to get back to karate. I do it because I find
>the katas (prearranged forms) to be an art form. I find the training help
>keep me in shape and the mental discipline to be invaluable in life. Yes,
>you will be able to defend yourself with training, more so than without, but
>remember size and brute strength does matter. Also the fancier the move the
>less likely it is going to work. More likely, you're get into trouble. For
>example, a high kick will expose your groin or you slip on the non-dojo
>street surface and hurt yourself.
>
Boy is this ever true. In ninjutsu our instructor (who previously
studied tae kwan do) teaches us the weak points of the tournament
disciplines.
>Personally, I prefer the old school martial arts schools that emphasize
>developing the whole person. Avoid schools that only focus on tournament
>competition (like the bad karate studio in the Karate Kid movies). Avoid
>low ranking instructors. I know, this might offend some, but a first degree
>black is basically an advanced beginner.
Also true. My ninjutsu instructor told me on the very first day that a
first degree black belt was like a high school diploma. It really only
means that you know enough to really start studying.
>In the old days (in the Asian
>countries), you went from white to black and then you work you way up the
>various black belt rankings. Color belts are good for us self-esteem
>conscious Americans. Also look for instructors who can trace their martial
>art lineage. Who was his instructor and so on until you can reach back to
>the founder of the particular martial art or some well known master. There
>are a lot of self proclaimend masters out there and I think too many people
>who change one or two things and claim they founded a new style of martial
>art. Nonsense.
>
Also very true.
>One last thing, when I got my black belt, it wasn't necessarily that I could
>beat all the brown belts. In fact, I couldn't. It was because I had
>mastered the basics and shown a mental toughness deserving of the rank. The
>tougher, stronger you are, the harder and higher the standards ought to be
>for you to get your black belt. Don't get me wrong, there are some minimal
>standards but a good instructor isn't going to penalize you if you're say a
>woman (assuming women are physically weaker than men) or a bid on the old
>side. A long time ago I was a white belt and I sparred this kid (about
>60 -70 lbs) who was wearing a brown belt. He jumped into the air and kicked
>me into the chest and then he felt backward on the dojo floor. Now, did this
>kid deserve his brown belt? Yes he did. He achieved a level of physical
>conditioning and skill that was appropriate for his age and size. It isn't
>only about fighing.
>
>Good luck in your quest.
>
>Robert
>
This is all excellent advice. I am just a beginner in ninjutsu, but if
your ninjutsu instructor wasn't certified by Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi (or
one of his immediate students) then he/she is NOT a qualified Ninja
Shodan. Dr. Hatsumi is the unquestioned lineal grandmaster (number 37
I believe in a line reaching back over 900 years) of all 9 ninja
schools.
If you can't trace your instructor back with kind this accuracy, then
be vary wary of what you are learning.
Robert, you mention doing kata's for conditioning, etc. In ninjutsu we
do not do katas - we do normal calithestics and stretching to warm up,
then we spend the remainder of the session doing realistic 2, 3, and 4
step moves and counter moves - with partners for accuracy training or
with dummies for power-training. Nothing could be more of a workout
than repeated hard heal stomp kicks on a heavy dummy. We do not just
do tournament moves, along with the usual punches and kicks we also
do grappling, throws, take-downs, nerve blocks, and many other things
that you simply cannot do unless you really intend to hurt someone. I
think this style (along with wing chin kung fu,) is one of the most
truly helpful in terms of real world self-defense. In fact, one of the
instructors (my teacher's instructor) also teaches police training
around the US.
Eric, good luck to you.
-Adam
melodrama
Hi Eric,
Having trained in schools across North America, I too found instructors such
as these.
The ideal school is one that is not too big and flashy. One where the
instructor is someone you would want to know outside of class. Someone who
is in good shape and can teach by example, not just words. Any promising of
predetermined Belt earnings is a sign of skewed intentions. From my
experience, TAE KWON DO is ideal for physical conditioning. The best shape
I've ever been in was when I studied TKD. Hands down. I would lean towards
ITF TKD. Simply beacuse it more closely resembles kick boxing without the
boxing elements. For practicality reasons, I feign WTF or olympic style
TKD, simply for their lack of punching skills. It concentrates mostly on
kicking. But don't let the style determine your training. Let the
instructor and the school be your guide. There are fewer good teachers out
there, but the search is worth the results.
Good luck. And let us know what you find.
Crash78
a specific style based on one instructor. What you've run into is what my
sensai affectionately refers to as "paying for your belt" and it's severely
frowned upon by any serious trainer. While it's not the norm, you will run
into these con jobs periodically which is why you should ALWAYS attend a
class or two in any dojo so you can find out if it suits you before you
commit .
I've trained in a couple different styles over the years and it's been my
experience that you should avoid any place that's part of a chain. If you
see some big dojo in a strip mall somewhere with a great big lit up sign and
700 trophies in the window, it's probably not that great a place. The dojo
I go to now could easily be compared to a "neighborhood bar" - not that it
promotes devious behavior, but that it feels small and homely. you walk in
the doors and you fit right in. it's a comfortable place. This has been
the most effective atmosphere for me to train in as of yet. if it sounds
appealing ot you, I'd seek out something like this.
as far as a specific style, pretty much any of them will get you into shape
if you apply yourself, but I'm gonna have to go with TKD (tae kwon do) for
the best physical workout. okinawan karate (the style I take now) is a good
work out as well, but it is second to TKD.
Hope that helped. =)
"Eric Wyles" <Nwy...@ScoxP-internetA.comM> wrote in message
news:tl9uhlo...@corp.supernews.com...
Grimace
Stick with something traditional.
Be wary of the whole pricing outlay 10 month crap.
In lots of styles you buy your grades, rather than earn them.
Pick someone you feel you can learn from, its no good being a 10th dan
whatever when you cant explain it to other people.
Cheers.
"Eric Wyles" <Nwy...@ScoxP-internetA.comM> wrote in message
news:tl9uhlo...@corp.supernews.com...
Eric Wyles
two other schools in town tonight. One was a Karate school and the other
was Tae Kwon Do. They were both very much better and I'm going to go take
some classes at the Karate school next week. I mentioned to the Tae Kwon Do
instructor that I had been to the other Tae Kwon do school in town and she
told me several stories that reinforced what I had already decided about
the other school.
Next week, I'm going to attend a couple of classes at the Karate school
that I visited tonight, and I can already tell it is going to be completely
different from my previous experience with that other school.
Thanks for the advice and I'll let you know how it goes.