Bassai Again
ShadowJack
Whilst running through some Bassai Dai bunkai with my brown belts,
leading up to the the first kiai set (wrist lock, knee stomp ).
Through studying this NG and reading the Amaks web site and
shawns kata site, I now cross train in aikido and after showing the
brown belts how to perform nikyo (To the best of my ability)
I noticed something the doesn't tie in with the accepted Shotokan bunkai,
about 85 - 90% of the time the brown belts (who was receiving the lock)
went to the ground (on their knees)furiously tapping out, most of them
in a lot of pain (ease up Boys, Please :-) at a 45 degree angle away from
me,
(right hand to right hand grab, Reverse position if left hand to right hand
grab)
Which brings me to my observation, if the person or persons who invented
the kata intended the lock to be a full blown nikyo wouldn't the target
now shift from the knee to the ribcage.
I now begining to see this set as a nikyo against a wrist grab, enemy
collapses
in front of me opening up his whole right (left) rib cage holding his wrist
in one hand
leaves the other to grab hair/ear/ throat whilst applying a hiza geri to
armpit
(dislocated shoulder ?) face/throat with an hair/ear rip followed by the
kekomi
to collapse the rib cage, thrusting down into a stomp as you turn into
back stance ( driving bones into lungs, maybe up the heart?)
Any thoughts ?
Jack.
Shawn Jefferson
<Wolfj...@Hotmail.com> wrote:
>went to the ground (on their knees)furiously tapping out, most of them
>in a lot of pain (ease up Boys, Please :-) at a 45 degree angle away from
>me,
>(right hand to right hand grab, Reverse position if left hand to right hand
>grab)
The version I know puts the opponent down almost directly in front of
you, as long as they are directly facing you when they grab. Perhaps
you are turning the wrist a little too far, which almost turns it into
an ikkyo-type movement, from my limited experience.
>Which brings me to my observation, if the person or persons who invented
>the kata intended the lock to be a full blown nikyo wouldn't the target
>now shift from the knee to the ribcage.
Well, who told you the kick had to be to the knee? :)
The way I look at it is that not every opponent is exactly the same,
and these strikes can be to 'any target of opportunity' as someone
once said.
Just make sure it's a target worthy of your effort.
>to collapse the rib cage, thrusting down into a stomp as you turn into
>back stance ( driving bones into lungs, maybe up the heart?)
I think it's possible that the turn is some type of dump, throw or
neck wrench after the kick.
That's just off the top of my head though.
--
Shawn Jefferson
sjeffers{_at_}home[_dot_]com
kus...@webtv.net
Always good to see up and coming bunkai artists learning from our many
resources here and elsewhere.
Yes, if you take the nikkyo as completed , the opponent will react as
you say. Then you are quite correct.
If you use it only as a lock and activation, doing a partial nikkyo
trap, then the insdie of the back leg above the knee is the target for
the kekomi, and it turns the opponent into you as he goes to his knees,
and the turning 190 knifehand is a neck twist throw, or worse.
Think of it thusly: You do a hikkyo, it works, they go to the ground,
you kick the ribs etc. on easily available nerves and points, they are
done, turn and throw the body down.
Or, they don't let you get the whole nikkyo on, then you kick out the
back leg, dropping their upper body right into you, you do the Istanbul
Twist, down the go, finshing knife hand strike, await next opponent, or
overlap applications.
Kata are so designed to let you avail yourselves of different
possibillities, because, though they are really not imaginary fights,
they are lexica of possible responses you can use in a real sitation
depending on how the cookie crubles and the hand plays out,soto speak.
Kusanku
TH^v^
news:966880465.10734.0...@news.demon.co.uk...
> Hi again,
> Whilst running through some Bassai Dai bunkai with my brown belts,
> leading up to the the first kiai set (wrist lock, knee stomp ).
> Through studying this NG and reading the Amaks web site and
> shawns kata site, I now cross train in aikido and after showing the
> brown belts how to perform nikyo (To the best of my ability)
> I noticed something the doesn't tie in with the accepted Shotokan bunkai,
> about 85 - 90% of the time the brown belts (who was receiving the lock)
> in a lot of pain (ease up Boys, Please :-) at a 45 degree angle away from
> me,
> (right hand to right hand grab, Reverse position if left hand to right
hand
> grab)
> the kata intended the lock to be a full blown nikyo wouldn't the target
> now shift from the knee to the ribcage.
> collapses
> in front of me opening up his whole right (left) rib cage holding his
wrist
> in one hand
> leaves the other to grab hair/ear/ throat whilst applying a hiza geri to
> armpit
> (dislocated shoulder ?) face/throat with an hair/ear rip followed by the
> kekomi
> back stance ( driving bones into lungs, maybe up the heart?)
Welcome message emailed.
ShadowJack
"Shawn Jefferson" <sjef...@home.com> wrote in message
news:nou2qsgo573o835tc...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 21 Aug 2000 18:51:22 +0100, "ShadowJack"
> <Wolfj...@Hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> The version I know puts the opponent down almost directly in front of
> you, as long as they are directly facing you when they grab. Perhaps
> you are turning the wrist a little too far, which almost turns it into
> an ikkyo-type movement, from my limited experience.
drop down right infront of you (and IMHO)off to a 45 degree angle away
from you. As a note to this sort of lock, I watched a teenage girl (about
5'3")
put this lock on 6'4" heavily built man and brought him to his knees in
agony
in my aikido class the other week, Just goes to show the effectiveness of
these
locks.
>Well, who told you the kick had to be to the knee? :)
>The way I look at it is that not every opponent is exactly the same,
>and these strikes can be to 'any target of opportunity' as someone
>once said.
>Just make sure it's a target worthy of your effort.
Nearly every Shotokan karateka that I've come across ;-)
I just direct them (If the've got net access) now to
Shotokan Planet, And wait for the fallout :-)
target of opportunity, I like that, knee or rib cage what
every presents it's self.
once again you've givin me good advice,
Thxs
Jack.
ShadowJack
<kus...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6826-39A...@storefull-134.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> Jack asks: 'Any thoghts?'
>
> Always good to see up and coming bunkai artists learning from our many
> resources here and elsewhere.
> Yes, if you take the nikkyo as completed , the opponent will react as
> you say. Then you are quite correct.
>
> If you use it only as a lock and activation, doing a partial nikkyo
> trap, then the insdie of the back leg above the knee is the target for
> the kekomi, and it turns the opponent into you as he goes to his knees,
> and the turning 190 knifehand is a neck twist throw, or worse.
>
> Think of it thusly: You do a hikkyo, it works, they go to the ground,
> you kick the ribs etc. on easily available nerves and points, they are
> done, turn and throw the body down.
>
> Or, they don't let you get the whole nikkyo on, then you kick out the
> back leg, dropping their upper body right into you, you do the Istanbul
> Twist, down the go, finshing knife hand strike, await next opponent, or
> overlap applications.
>
> Kata are so designed to let you avail yourselves of different
> possibillities, because, though they are really not imaginary fights,
> they are lexica of possible responses you can use in a real sitation
> depending on how the cookie crubles and the hand plays out,soto speak.
>
> Kusanku
>
Hi Kusanku,
Just a couple of points to clear things up for me :-)
Istanbul Twist ? would that be the technique that I know as Kubi Kowasu ?
The one where you do it slowly and you can use it as a controlling
technique,
or if you do it fast, Goodbye cruel world ....snap....?
Would I be correct in thinking that whenever you perform a kata technique
it has a backup ? say for some reason the nikkyo failed the target would
( as shawn put it,Target of oppo') shift from ribs to knee?
many thxs
Jack.