Is there still a Class Action lawsuit against PayPal?
than0s
up?
I'll say one thing: beware PayPal purchases for items which you think may be
reprints or the like. Once you file a Claim for PayPal and they determine
you received *something*, even though it is not what you thought you were
buying, you're screwed, in my humble experience.
I'm done with PayPal, especially after finding ALL the "Problems with
PayPal" sites. AND to those who haven't had problems yet, congratulations...
I hope you don't!
Matt
news:XRN1c.69887$jx3.6...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
> Besides Jacoby and Meyers, and 1 or 2 in California? If so, where do I
sign
> up?
>
> I'll say one thing: beware PayPal purchases for items which you think may
be
> reprints or the like. Once you file a Claim for PayPal and they determine
> you received *something*, even though it is not what you thought you were
> buying, you're screwed, in my humble experience.
>
> I'm done with PayPal, especially after finding ALL the "Problems with
> PayPal" sites.
Virtually all huge businesses like PayPal are bound to have a handful of
conflicts with their clients. I do agree that PayPal sometimes jumps the gun
and does something that may not make sense to atleast one person involved.
However, if you consider the millions of transactions which take place on
PayPal each and every day, and then look at the rather small number of
problems posted to these anti-PayPal sites, you will see that the odds
aren't all that bad. You should also take into consideration that many
people that post such PayPal problems may not tell the story in full.
If you have decided to never have any business relations with PayPal again,
that is your choice. However, if you ever plan on sell or even buy from
other users on eBay, you will soon realize that MANY folks encourage the use
of PayPal due to the quick turn-around in auctions and instant
gratification.
Matt
Taraker
PayPal functions more like a cash transaction facilitator. If I do a deal
with somebody I always ask myself "Would I do this as a cash deal?" and if
the answer is no, I simply whip out the ole trusty credit card, that offers
a significantly higher level of protection against fraud & deceptions, and
do the transaction that way.
PayPal does offer some level of protection but at the end of the day, they
are really nothing more than an entity the facilitates transactions between
two distant parties for a nominal fee.
than0s
The BOTTOM LINE is this: As long as you have received SOMETHING in the mail
from the Seller (even if it is NOT what you agreed to buy), PayPal will wash
their hands of the situation and call it a "Seller quality" issue, as I have
been told from PayPal. And, oh yeah, "Contact the Seller again" if you are
not satisfied. Sure feels like they're on the consumer's side right?
I'll admit one thing: I;ve used PayPal foir over 3 years and 50+
transactions. No problems. But I'll tell you what, when you DO have a
problem, ythey will attempt to shift the blame to anyone else. I wouldn't be
surprised if half of the "Pro-PayPal" responses in here are actually damage
control from PayPal.
Anyone else want an eye opener? Do a google search on "PayPal +lawsuit" and
see how many sites you find. It was a REAL eye-opener for me. Here's alink
for all the slow typers:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Paypal+%2Blawsuit
SO long PayPal, is all I have to say.
Sorry for the rant, just don't like being ripped-off and PayPal washing
their hands of it.
"Matt" <no...@thenewsgroups.com> wrote in message
news:cYKdndA1554...@tznet.com...
Richard Ward
> <snip>I wouldn't be
> surprised if half of the "Pro-PayPal" responses in here are actually damage
> control from PayPal.
Translation: "I can't argue logically with the arguments provided, so
I'll just decide that anyone who doesn't agree with me must really be a
paypal employee in disguise."
than0s
"Richard Ward" <rwa...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:c28jip$1qacej$1...@ID-155713.news.uni-berlin.de...
than0s
well, what's the old saying? "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice..."
"Taraker" <tar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c_mdndtzuN8...@comcast.com...
loebgun....@yahoo.com
I actually tried to collect on a money-back guarantee they sold me.
Whoops!
Never have I been given the shaft so solidly and so fast (and so
creatively, too). I would certainly use them to pay for an item, but I
would NEVER EVER buy any kind of guarantee from them or try to use
them to settle a dispute. There is NO buyer protection, least of all
from their unfair business practices. I don't doubt some people
succeed, but it's a crapshoot, so they can point to some examples when
challenged in court.
There are definitely lawsuits going on. I am shopping for a lawyer
myself while checking out the ongoing legal action to see if I can
join in an existing suit.
Rita Ä Berkowitz
<loebgun....@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:q4of40drh0gdhf08f...@4ax.com...
Another example of why daily sweeps and funding *ALL* on-line payments via
credit card are paramount for maximum enjoyment of PayPal and eBay.
Satisfaction is 100% guaranteed when you call your CC company to dispute the
charge.
Rita
Richard Ward
> Or someone who hasn't gotten the PayPal shaft yet :-)
I've used paypal several hundred times, never had a problem yet.
Of course I don't expect paypal to protect me from every possible
misdeed by the seller, when such misdeeds can't really be established
without an evidentiary hearing. I don't expect a company to assume that
I'm in the right when a swearing match is involved.
I actually read and understand the terms of service of the various
services I use, and I understand that I'm only protected as far as the
agreement itself protects me. I understand that protections as far as
quality of goods delivered are virtually meaningless when the process is
conducted by email, unless the other party admits to paypal that he
didn't send what he said he'd send. I also understand that paypal
doesn't offer the same protections as a direct purchase through a credit
card, because in that case the card issuer can get their money back from
the seller, which isn't necessarily the case with paypal.
It all boils down to understanding what you're agreeing to well enough
before you sign up to actually understand what the agreement means, and
how far the protections really go.
Deborah Stevenson
>Besides Jacoby and Meyers, and 1 or 2 in California? If so, where do I sign
>up?
>I'll say one thing: beware PayPal purchases for items which you think may be
>reprints or the like. Once you file a Claim for PayPal and they determine
>you received *something*, even though it is not what you thought you were
>buying, you're screwed, in my humble experience.
Right. That's pretty clear in the user agreement on their Buyer Complaint
Policy--it only covers complete nondelivery.
Only auctions covered through the Buyer Protection Agreement will be
covered for not-as-described, so if it doesn't have the Buyer Protection
information in the auction, you know PayPal won't cover the
not-as-described complaint.
I can understand that people want it to act the same way as their credit
card issuer, but it's not, and it's pretty clear that it's not in their
policies.
Sorry the seller screwed you; I hope you filed a fraud complaint with eBay
itself.
--
Deborah Stevenson
dste...@OBSTACLESuiuc.edu
[eliminate OBSTACLES to email me]
TyMeDwn1st
> I wouldn't be
>surprised if half of the "Pro-PayPal" responses in here are actually damage
>control from PayPal.
Congratulations for demonstrating -- and fairly early in the thread, at that --
the second lamest answer on Usenet. (The first place is held by the "get a
life" series of responses.)
It takes a genuinely dense, dumbshit kinda guy to think that his little flap
with Paypal (or eBay or AOL) is soooooo ubiquitous that anyone who feels
differently must be in the employ of the spawn-of-the-devil company.
If you can't play with the big kids, sonny, you really ought to stay off the
playground.
--
Ty
Who is mostly just
a slightly skewed
Donna Reed
Recommended reading for March: The Price of Loyalty: George W. Bush, the
White House, and the Education of Paul O'Neill. By Ron Suskind.
Simon & Schuster, Inc. ISBN 0-7432-5545-3
than0s
"TyMeDwn1st" <tymed...@aol.comPEARLS> wrote in message
news:20040304220800...@mb-m10.aol.com...
than0s
things they do, and have done, in the past, but it's when you really need
them (and you have a valid case) that they come up lacking... I've sent out
a few notes to join in the open Class Action lawsuits, and if there is any
interest in A.M.O.E., I'll be sure to post teh URL's for whoever may be
interested. I'm simply waiting to hear back now. Wonder if a PayPal
newsgroup would be a good idea as well to discuss the areas PayPal tends to
shy away from...
<loebgun....@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:q4of40drh0gdhf08f...@4ax.com...
than0s
up in PayPal as backup)... sigh.
"Rita Ä Berkowitz" <ritabe...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:104foui...@corp.supernews.com...
Rita Ä Berkowitz
"than0s" <m...@here.com> wrote in message
news:%BS1c.70592$jx3.6...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
> Agreed - the problem I had was when they accessed my checking account (set
> up in PayPal as backup)... sigh.
>
At what part of the transaction did they access you checking account? I'm
assuming this is when you paid the seller? If this was the case you could
have used your CC if you clicked your mouse a few more times. This is a
pain in the ass, but it's one of the pleasures you get for verifying your
bank account.
Rita
Ed Mars
> up?
Ed
Doc
"Ed Mars" <edwar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f7fa1cc7.04030...@posting.google.com...
I had some questions about another issue a while back and at some point
mentioned a lawsuit and the droid at Paypal insisted there was no lawsuit,
sounded like that was what he was instructed to say. So, gee, I guess there
must not be a lawsuit, since Paypal says so... ;-)
Impmon
>I'll say one thing: beware PayPal purchases for items which you think may be
>reprints or the like. Once you file a Claim for PayPal and they determine
>you received *something*, even though it is not what you thought you were
>buying, you're screwed, in my humble experience.
And how is this Paypal's fault? Seller did send something. Your
recourse is to file complaint with the authorities. If it's a DVD
copy, a photocopy of a book, etc then it's copyright infringement.
You may not get any money back but if the seller gets investigated, he
or she may lose several thousands or more plus spend time with homo
cell mate(s) who hasn't had fresh meat in ages.
--
To reply, replace digi.mon with tds.net
than0s
"Ed Mars" <edwar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f7fa1cc7.04030...@posting.google.com...
Richard Ward
Just about any major company has several lawsuits going on at any given
time. Unless it's a serious suit that they would have heard about
through the news media, the odds of the customer support people actually
having any idea about it's existence is almost zero. Do you really
think they try to keep their customer support people informed of pending
litigation? Or that any company does? It simply isn't their job. It's
like asking a customer support person about negative information on a
company's SEC filings, and expecting intentional deception because they
don't know it exists.
Rita Ä Berkowitz
> time. Unless it's a serious suit that they would have heard about
> through the news media, the odds of the customer support people actually
> having any idea about it's existence is almost zero. Do you really
> think they try to keep their customer support people informed of pending
> litigation? Or that any company does? It simply isn't their job. It's
> like asking a customer support person about negative information on a
> company's SEC filings, and expecting intentional deception because they
> don't know it exists.
>
And if the customer support people did know about it I'm sure that they have
already read the memorandum that was passed around barring them from any
discussions of this matter with non-employees on company time.
Rita
than0s
"new found company" in the joint did bring a samll smile to my face... LOL.
"Impmon" <imp...@digi.mon> wrote in message
news:ecni409a5d24nilbf...@4ax.com...
bl...@adelphia.com
Isnt that similar to "I cant argue logically with the arguments
provided, so I'll just decide that anyone who doesn't agree with me
must really be somebody who violated paypals rules in disguise"
C'mon Richard: there are two sides to every question (well 3, mine,
yours and the truth), but some of these people just chant
"Paypal...gooood" and offer no proof other than "I never had any
problems". The other side says "Look....they actually did this. If
they did it once, they can do it again". Not the best logic but still
better than just saying "you're wrong". I think some sellers are so
unnecessarily dependent on PP that they keep repeating the mantra,
hoping if they say it enough, it will come true. Might as well try
prayer.
You dont know how I wish there really was an honest and reliable
service like PP....I might even be willing to pay the price of using
it if they were responsible. But there is NO financial service in the
US that gets away with the stuff they do. Interestingly, my online
broker and online bank dont even mention the use of this service, even
though it would be a natural connection. Outside of ebay, PP remains a
strange and shunned service and until they clean up their operation,
their growth will stop with use on auctions and a few web pages.
Lumpy
> > > <snip>I wouldn't be surprised if half of the
> > > "Pro-PayPal" responses in here are actually
> > > damage control from PayPal.
Richard Ward wrote:
> > Translation: "I can't argue logically with the
> > arguments provided, so I'll just decide that
> > anyone who doesn't agree with me must really
> > be a paypal employee in disguise."
blank wrote:
> Isnt that similar to "I cant argue logically with the
> arguments provided, so I'll just decide that anyone
> who doesn't agree with me must really be somebody
> who violated paypals rules in disguise"
Which seems more logical and possible?
1 - Poster with PP complaint is having trouble
dealing with the established PP way of business.
- OR -
2 - PP pays several people to maintain an online
presence in this NG just to do "damage control"?
Lumpy
--
In Your Ears for 40 Years
http://www.lumpymusic.com
Doc
> Just about any major company has several lawsuits going on at any given
> time. Unless it's a serious suit that they would have heard about
> through the news media, the odds of the customer support people actually
> having any idea about it's existence is almost zero.
This guy emphatically stated "No, that's not true", in almost
knee-jerk fashion. Obviously a subject he had focused his attention
on.
than0s
PayPal *most* of the time, that's why it's such a shocker when PayPal
essentially blows you off once they determine it's a "Seller quality issue".
I have done more research, and you want to hear something even scarier?
There is a known scam where sellers will snd you an EMPTY envelope at the
conclusion of the sale. Once PayPal finds out *something* has been
delivered, they close the dispute and state "We do not get involved in
Seller quality issues. Please contact the Seller to resolve..."
Here is the link someone provided --> http://paypalsuit.com/ Just go to the
Forums and read thru some of the garbage that is going on. It speaks for
itself. Just have a jug of Pepto-Bismal (sp?) handy...
"Doc" <docsa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f0c1bc20.04030...@posting.google.com...
Richard Ward
> On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 19:02:13 -0600, Richard Ward
> <rwa...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>>than0s wrote:
>>
>>
>>><snip>I wouldn't be
>>>surprised if half of the "Pro-PayPal" responses in here are actually damage
>>>control from PayPal.
>>
>>Translation: "I can't argue logically with the arguments provided, so
>>I'll just decide that anyone who doesn't agree with me must really be a
>>paypal employee in disguise."
>>
>
> Isnt that similar to "I cant argue logically with the arguments
> provided, so I'll just decide that anyone who doesn't agree with me
> must really be somebody who violated paypals rules in disguise"
Nothing in disguise about this one, they want to sue paypal because
paypal followed the terms of their guarantee. The protection to the
buyer granted by those terms is almost nonexistent, but that's pretty
much been discussed to death here in the past, and anyone who really
reads the users agreement is going to figure that out.
>
> C'mon Richard: there are two sides to every question (well 3, mine,
> yours and the truth), but some of these people just chant
> "Paypal...gooood" and offer no proof other than "I never had any
> problems". The other side says "Look....they actually did this. If
> they did it once, they can do it again". Not the best logic but still
> better than just saying "you're wrong". I think some sellers are so
> unnecessarily dependent on PP that they keep repeating the mantra,
> hoping if they say it enough, it will come true. Might as well try
> prayer.
I think other sellers don't like paypal, and use it to take entirely
contrary positions. You're primarily a seller. Is it really your
argument that if a buyer claims that what you sent wasn't what they
ordered, that paypal should automatically withdraw the money from your
account and give them a refund? Keep in mind that this is always going
to be a "he said, she said" situation, there isn't ever going to be firm
proof of what was sent. Is that really your argument as to why you
don't like paypal?
>
> You dont know how I wish there really was an honest and reliable
> service like PP....I might even be willing to pay the price of using
> it if they were responsible.
No offense, but I doubt it. I think your problems with paypal are
similar to many other people's problems with paypal. You want to pay
for a plow horse, but get a thoroughbred, but you'd be upset if the
plowhorse didn't win any races. Paypal is a cheap way to take credit
cards. It has it's drawbacks, but you pretty much get what you pay for.
If you feel the risks are greater than the rewards, then that's your
decision to make. However, it doesn't make paypal dishonest or
unreliable, it merely makes it something that exists in real life, not
in someone's imagination. No payment system is going to remove all risk
from a transaction, and that includes paypal, a merchant account,
personal checks, money orders or cash. Any of them have some degree of
risk, you just have to understand what degree of risk you're willing to
accept, compared to the costs involved for each payment method.
But there is NO financial service in the
> US that gets away with the stuff they do.
You really can't be naive enough to believe that, can you? Major credit
card issuers have intentionally sent their bills late to make their
customers accrue late charges and to justify increasing their interest
charges. Brokerage houses have been sued over churning their customers
accounts to generate fees. The things paypal has been accused of, if
they're all true, still happen to an incredibly small percentage of
customers compared to the examples above.
Interestingly, my online
> broker and online bank dont even mention the use of this service, even
> though it would be a natural connection.
Why on earth would a bank or brokerage house want to have anything to do
with paypal? It's like expecting Sears to accept paypal. That isn't
the kind of business that would have any reason to accept paypal, it
wasn't created to give major companies the ability to accept credit
cards, it was set up for the small time seller. If major companies want
to accept credit cards, they get a merchant account, with a rate tied to
the huge amount of business they provide.
Outside of ebay, PP remains a
> strange and shunned service and until they clean up their operation,
> their growth will stop with use on auctions and a few web pages.
They aren't a strange and shunned service now outside of eBay, they're
just a business that doesn't have any real purpose for anything but a
small business. Lots of small businesses use paypal for online sales on
their websites. This along with eBay is paypal's market, the only
market they really fit. As for their grown stopping, that I'd agree
with. Their growth is limited not by their business practices, but by
the fact that they already own most of the market where their service
makes sense. As eBay grows, paypal will continue to grow, but eBay
can't continue to grow at the rate it has over the last few years, you
eventually run out of potential customers.
Eric Bustad
> As I said before on one of these threads, I have had good experiences with
> PayPal *most* of the time, that's why it's such a shocker when PayPal
> essentially blows you off once they determine it's a "Seller quality issue".
> I have done more research, and you want to hear something even scarier?
> There is a known scam where sellers will snd you an EMPTY envelope at the
> conclusion of the sale. Once PayPal finds out *something* has been
> delivered, they close the dispute and state "We do not get involved in
> Seller quality issues. Please contact the Seller to resolve..."
So what do you expect Paypal to do differently in this situation?
[rest of message snipped]
= Eric
Caroball
than you can count, most stupid
Andrew L. J. Heenan
> As long as there are hungry lawyers and large corps there
> will be more lawsuits than you can count, most stupid
... and most very expensive for everone. Except the lawyers.
Perhaps our new troll is an undercover lawyer?
A
Andrew L. J. Heenan
> As long as there are hungry lawyers and large corps there
> will be more lawsuits than you can count, most stupid
... and most very expensive for everone. Except the lawyers.