Q: Manga Translation and Copy Right
Hank Liao
tackle the legal newsgroups.
If I translate the text in a manga and post the translation on my web
page, is that considered a violation of the manga's copy right? The
page will contain only the translated text and no pictures from the
manga.
What is the extend of copy right regarding manga? Is it mainly the
reproduction of the actual picture and text, and does it include the
meanings and ideas as well?
What is the extend of copy right regarding translation? Should the
translated result be considered as a different piece of work?
These questions are mainly for the U.S. copy right laws, since that is
where I am. Thanks for your input.
Hank
Anthony J. Bryant
>
> This may be off-topic, but I thought I try it here first, before I
> tackle the legal newsgroups.
>
> If I translate the text in a manga and post the translation on my web
> page, is that considered a violation of the manga's copy right? The
> page will contain only the translated text and no pictures from the
> manga.
Yes, it's a violation of copyright. For the record, I'm a writer and
I've been a magazine and newspaper editor since 1988, so I've lived with
copyrights.
The only way it WOULDN'T be a copyright violation is if you get their
permission -- in advance -- to translate and post it.
> What is the extend of copy right regarding manga? Is it mainly the
> reproduction of the actual picture and text, and does it include the
> meanings and ideas as well?
The same as with anything. There are illustrations and text. You can't
muck with any of it, legally speaking.
> What is the extend of copy right regarding translation? Should the
> translated result be considered as a different piece of work?
No. I've done translations from Japanese before. You need to get the
author/publisher's permission first.
> These questions are mainly for the U.S. copy right laws, since that is
> where I am. Thanks for your input.
Academic. The US is a signator of the Berne Convention; all signatory
countries follow the same basics as to what is and isn't proper. The
only difference is the ammount of the penalty, though if the owner sued
in court he could get the overriding Berne Convention penalties applied
(higher than the penalties usually applied in, say, China).
Tony
Soeren Grenzdoerffer
>
> Hank Liao wrote:
> >
> > This may be off-topic, but I thought I try it here first, before I
> > tackle the legal newsgroups.
> >
> > If I translate the text in a manga and post the translation on my web
> > page, is that considered a violation of the manga's copy right? The
> > page will contain only the translated text and no pictures from the
> > manga.
>
> Yes, it's a violation of copyright. For the record, I'm a writer and
> I've been a magazine and newspaper editor since 1988, so I've lived with
> copyrights.
>
> The only way it WOULDN'T be a copyright violation is if you get their
> permission -- in advance -- to translate and post it.
>
manga?
Soeren
Anthony J. Bryant
>
> > The only way it WOULDN'T be a copyright violation is if you get their
> > permission -- in advance -- to translate and post it.
> >
> Does here anyone know how expensive is it to buy such permission for
> manga?
No hard and fast rule.
First, they likely wouldn't sell unless there's real money to be made;
namely royalties on the sales of an English edition (e.g., Viz).
OTOH, considering the popularity of Doujinshi in Japan (and their
borderline and line-crossing copyright problems, generally loosely
tolerated), if you have the courtesy to write the publisher (and enclose
an SASE), asking for permission to present a NOT FOR PROFIT translation
on a web page for the edification of the fans of THEIR PROPERTY who
can't speak Japanese, they MIGHT allow it and grant permission.
The advantage for doing this is that you are on a moral and ethical
high-ground vis-a-vis everyone who doesn't, and you may even get other
recognition for doing so. The disadvantage is that they MAY refuse; this
would definitely put you on the outlaw side if you want to do it anyway,
as you would be going against direct and patent wishes of the owner of
the property.
OTOH, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Write and ask.
Tony
Moth to a Flame
is an intellectual violation of the artists. HOWEVER, Japanese rules of
law is very different from U.S., so as long as you indicate that it's a
fan project, that you're not making any profit, that you don't own the
characters or the title, and ask your sufers to please use discretion, you
should be fine. (Meaning: You most likely won't be sued by anybody
soon.) Japan has very lax copyright laws , and the artists have a
very liberal mentality about their work. That's why there are tons of
dojinshies (which, if happend in the U.S., would stem a huge legal
battle,) and of course, fansubs. This applies to the current condition.
2) There's not much of an extent to Japanese manga copyright law. (that's
why there's so much pirating!) Even in Japan artists don't really control
their creations, there's not much they can do in America. So yes, you can
put up the actual picture on the Internet, as long as it's NOT copyrighted
in America.
3) There is NO copyright regarding translation unless you get permission
from the original author, the publisher, and go through all the legal
paperworks. That means, if somebody takes your translation and put it on
their website, or even replace your name with theirs, you have very little
legal protection. This MIGHT change soon, but the Internet progresses so
fast that laws are falling behind.
Hope that helps. The above comments apply to JAPANESE manga ONLY. If the
title is copyrighted in America, regardless of whether it has been
translated or not, you can't use any of it for your own purpose. Just a
note, I actually known of fan translaters who have been contacted by the
original author thanking them for their support. Anyways, good luck!
On Sat, 5 Dec 1998, Hank Liao wrote:
> If I translate the text in a manga and post the translation on my web
> page, is that considered a violation of the manga's copy right? The
> page will contain only the translated text and no pictures from the
> manga.
> What is the extend of copy right regarding manga? Is it mainly the
> reproduction of the actual picture and text, and does it include the
> meanings and ideas as well?
Anthony J. Bryant
>
> 1) Theoretically, translating the text of manga and posting it on the web
> is an intellectual violation of the artists. HOWEVER, Japanese rules of
> law is very different from U.S., so as long as you indicate that it's a
> fan project, that you're not making any profit, that you don't own the
> characters or the title, and ask your sufers to please use discretion, you
> should be fine. (Meaning: You most likely won't be sued by anybody
> soon.) Japan has very lax copyright laws , and the artists have a
> very liberal mentality about their work. That's why there are tons of
> dojinshies (which, if happend in the U.S., would stem a huge legal
> battle,) and of course, fansubs. This applies to the current condition.
Moth, this is wrong, wrong, wrong. Japan and the US are both signatories
of the Berne Convention. Copyrights are mutually held and protected.
There is no special class allowance for Japanese comic books. You
probably won't get sued, no; but it's still illegal.
Doujinshi are also occasionally stomped on. The smart ones ask
permission before publishing. It's often tolerated, yes, but be polite
and up front about it.
Did I mention that I used to edit Tokyo Journal, then the Mainichi Daily
News, wrote for Eye-Ai, and did several articles and features on manga
and anime? I'm rather well up on the laws there.
> 2) There's not much of an extent to Japanese manga copyright law. (that's
> why there's so much pirating!) Even in Japan artists don't really control
> their creations, there's not much they can do in America. So yes, you can
> put up the actual picture on the Internet, as long as it's NOT copyrighted
> in America.
Moth, this is wrong, wrong, wrong. Japan and the US are both signatories
of the Berne Convention. Copyrights are mutually held and protected.
When its published, it's copyrighted. PERIOD.
> 3) There is NO copyright regarding translation unless you get permission
> from the original author, the publisher, and go through all the legal
> paperworks. That means, if somebody takes your translation and put it on
> their website, or even replace your name with theirs, you have very little
> legal protection. This MIGHT change soon, but the Internet progresses so
> fast that laws are falling behind.
Again, wrong. I have been there. I am a professional. I've dealt with
the lawyers. What are YOUR particulars?
When in doubt, contact the company and ask.
Tony
Wei-Hwa Huang
So, um, could you tell us precisely what's wrong with this part?
If we illegally translate manga, do we still have copyright on the
translation or not?
--
Wei-Hwa Huang, whu...@ugcs.caltech.edu, http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~whuang/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I'd like to have the same quest again, sir."
Anthony J. Bryant
>
> "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbr...@indiana.edu> writes:
> >Moth to a Flame wrote:
> >> That means, if somebody takes your translation and put it on
> >> their website, or even replace your name with theirs, you have very little
> >> legal protection. This MIGHT change soon, but the Internet progresses so
> >> fast that laws are falling behind.
>
> >Again, wrong. I have been there. I am a professional. I've dealt with
> >the lawyers. What are YOUR particulars?
>
> So, um, could you tell us precisely what's wrong with this part?
> If we illegally translate manga, do we still have copyright on the
> translation or not?
You do, but it's on a different level. It's like possession of stolen
property. You can't say "they stole my stuff" when you stole it
yourself. You CAN, but you open youself up for prosecution as well.
It reminds me of the idiot who went to the police complaining that his
roommate had stolen his pot stash.
Tony
Snowhare
Nothing above this line is part of the signed message.
In article <366E7E...@indiana.edu>,
Anthony J. Bryant <ajbr...@indiana.edu> wrote:
>Wei-Hwa Huang wrote:
>>
>> "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbr...@indiana.edu> writes:
>> >Moth to a Flame wrote:
>> >> That means, if somebody takes your translation and put it on
>> >> their website, or even replace your name with theirs, you have very little
>> >> legal protection. This MIGHT change soon, but the Internet progresses so
>> >> fast that laws are falling behind.
>>
>> >Again, wrong. I have been there. I am a professional. I've dealt with
>> >the lawyers. What are YOUR particulars?
>>
>> So, um, could you tell us precisely what's wrong with this part?
>> If we illegally translate manga, do we still have copyright on the
>> translation or not?
>
>You do, but it's on a different level. It's like possession of stolen
>property. You can't say "they stole my stuff" when you stole it
>yourself. You CAN, but you open youself up for prosecution as well.
>
Actually, this *has* happened, in the anime field in particular.
Someone else knows the details more than I do, but the essentials
are that a company _legally_ licensed an anime title, and then
stole a fansub script to do their sub-titling. The creators of
the fansub script turned around and sued - _and won_. There is
nothing illegal about creating and owning a fansub script to
a copy you legally bought - its the *distributing* of it that
violates the copyright rights of the original creator. It is
100% legal for me to do my own translation and sub a tape
for my own use. It is illegal for me to distribute a translation
or a fansub. But I have a valid copyright on my own translation.
Benjamin Franz
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Anthony J. Bryant
>
> Actually, this *has* happened, in the anime field in particular.
> Someone else knows the details more than I do, but the essentials
> are that a company _legally_ licensed an anime title, and then
> stole a fansub script to do their sub-titling. The creators of
> the fansub script turned around and sued - _and won_. There is
> nothing illegal about creating and owning a fansub script to
> a copy you legally bought - its the *distributing* of it that
> violates the copyright rights of the original creator. It is
> 100% legal for me to do my own translation and sub a tape
> for my own use. It is illegal for me to distribute a translation
> or a fansub. But I have a valid copyright on my own translation.
BINGO!
That's where the line crosses: distribution.
I've translated a few things for friends who are over and watching a
movie or vid, but I've never subbed a video or passed around scripts.
OTOH, I'd love to know HOW to sub videos: I've got several hundred video
tapes here of Japanese shows, and at present I'm the only one who can
appreciate them, and providing running commentary over and over gets
old... both for me AND my friends. <G>
Tony
Anthony J. Bryant
> I was just passing through and tought I could let you know what it's like in
> France inthe Manga field. I am a french adaptator of several manga.
> In France, you can use text and images of materials to show them in your
> publications (paper or web) without having to pay anything to the owner
> (sorry forr my english).
> It is called (approximatively in english) : right to quote !!
It's called theft. It's called plagiarism.
> I thikk the laws about Copyrights infrigement are the same for both our
> countries and less or Japan. So I think you can translate anything you want
> and put it on your homepage, if you don't use the original material.
> Everybody is doing this in France on the net and also in England !!
> You don't have to bother to know if it's legal or not because it is to small
> (no offense meaning) to annoy the japanese.
In point of fact, it *is* illegal. So what if no one's watching? How
about morals and ethics? If no one watches, why not take a book off the
rack? It's small and cheap, it's no big deal.
Talk to ANY lawyer -- especially one who specializes in intellectual
property.
Tony
François JACQUES
I was just passing through and tought I could let you know what it's like in
France inthe Manga field. I am a french adaptator of several manga.
In France, you can use text and images of materials to show them in your
publications (paper or web) without having to pay anything to the owner
(sorry forr my english).
It is called (approximatively in english) : right to quote !!
I thikk the laws about Copyrights infrigement are the same for both our
countries and less or Japan. So I think you can translate anything you want
and put it on your homepage, if you don't use the original material.
Everybody is doing this in France on the net and also in England !!
You don't have to bother to know if it's legal or not because it is to small
(no offense meaning) to annoy the japanese.
Contrary to what says mister Bryant (whom I might give my congratulation for
the tokyo journal - one of the best !!) most of japanese student don't ask
permissions for the Dojinshi.
But it has nothing to do with your request.
Well, I may be wrong, but I think you don't have to be afraid. It is true
that the original is not yours and if you make a translation of it, you
don't have the authorization for it, first of all. But, all mind creations
are their creators own.Hope you understand my writing. It means that if you
make a translation of a foreign book, this translation is your own.
BUT, you better not start putting your copyright on it because the original
work is not your copyright. So we go back toi this distribution problem. If
you don't have 10 thousand guys who goes on you're home page it's ok.
Hope I was of some help.
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>"HL" == Hank Liao <hhl...@geocities.com> writes:
>
>HL> If I translate the text in a manga and post the translation on my web
>HL> page, is that considered a violation of the manga's copy right?
>
>Yes.
>
>Translation qualifies as a derivative work under copyright law, both US and
>international (what as US and international law are by and large the same
>thing as of the Copyright Act of 1976). The copyright of a derivative work
>is owned by the owner of the original work, not the creator of the
>derivative.
>
>Under fair use, you may perform the translation for yourself *ONLY*. You
>cannot distribute the translation by any means unless you have permission
>from the owner of the work to do so.
>
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>--
>Rat <rat...@peorth.gweep.net> \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
>PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover
> \ head.
nethius
>You are allowed to use excerpts from the original work for purposes of
>review; this falls under fair use.
So can you scan covers of movies and put them on a web page as long as you
are reviewing them? Same as actual pictures from movie?
NETHIUS
François JACQUES
>without permission from the copyright holder.
>
Why not ? If it's only text, without the drawings, and rights for
translation haven't been sold yet in your country ? The only thing I won't
do that kind of work is that usually, I am paid to do it under legal terms
for french publishers.
Japanese don't care about those things. it is to small for them. Don't be
blind about the manga market in usa. It is so small, that even in France you
sell so much manga than in us. Superman and X-men Rule !! I talk with Toren
Smith once, He said that Ghost in the Shell was the best selling manga at
the time of publication : 15 000 pieces.
Wao !! For a country as big as USA, small press !!
Even in France, before all publishers went to make manga, japansese didn't
cared about what was going on : piracy, infrigment, etc.
But, in China and Taiwan, that is a very very big market, and all their
lawyers are always in combat mode !!
So, you live in THE "suppose to be" Free Right Country ! As long as you
don't take a life, and you stay cool, go ahead, do your translations for the
sake of the fans !! But don't listen to the integrists. We have many of them
in France : manga integrist ! Well, I have seen what that does with
religion, I don't want any of this in the manga field !! It is suppose to be
a fun world, so be it !!
Anthony J. Bryant
>
> Remember, this is a French point of view. i know that in France, fans are
> allowed many things. But I know also that in us, companies like Disney or
> Marvel or DC are able to sue un fanzine published in 100 copies for printing
> their stuff.
> The japanese won't never deal directly in France for infrogment of
> copyrights, but they ask the french publicher to do their own police for
> that matter.
Good point. Remember the preschools that Disney sued out of existence
merely for painting Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck and Pluto on their
walls without permission (i.e., paying a licensing fee)?
Tony
Disruptor
This man has people go around to all conventions and look for
unauthorised materials and track down rumors of such. He has sued
induviduals for wearing an unauthorised T-shirt.
Jacob Hurtado
> >
> > Remember, this is a French point of view. i know that in France, fans are
> > allowed many things. But I know also that in us, companies like Disney or
> > Marvel or DC are able to sue un fanzine published in 100 copies for printing
> > their stuff.
> > The japanese won't never deal directly in France for infrogment of
Am I the only one to catch this? :)
Anthony J. Bryant
>
> And to add another one: Charels Schultz creator of Peanuts.
>
> This man has people go around to all conventions and look for
> unauthorised materials and track down rumors of such. He has sued
> induviduals for wearing an unauthorised T-shirt.
It's not Shultz. He doesn't have an organization.
It's the United Features Syndicate. They have the exclusive license for
Peanuts (and a million other comics). If it's not put out with their
permission, they send out Dobermans. (They can't send out mastiffs;
Marmaduke belongs to King. <G>).
Tony
Anthony J. Bryant
>
> > > Marvel or DC are able to sue un fanzine published in 100 copies for printing
> > > their stuff.
> > > The japanese won't never deal directly in France for infrogment of
> ^^^^
> Am I the only one to catch this? :)
LOL!!!
Good eye! <G>
Tony
François JACQUES
>is in siccing the lawyers on anyone that infringes on anything related to
>Evangelion. And while you are at it, ask Altier Lana about how Paramaount
>jumped all over his ass over "Star Trekker".
Remember, this is a French point of view. i know that in France, fans are
allowed many things. But I know also that in us, companies like Disney or
Marvel or DC are able to sue un fanzine published in 100 copies for printing
their stuff.
The japanese won't never deal directly in France for infrogment of
François JACQUES
>FJ> copyrights,
>
>I'm *NOT* touching that one.
OKAY !! This is not the Muppet's Show. You should have read infrIgment !!
>FJ> but they ask the french publicher to do their own police for that
>FJ> matter.
>
>And if there is no French publisher, and the Japanese company thinks you
>are infringing their copyright, you will get a nicely worded letter from
>their lawyers informing you to cease and desist immediately.
Yes and no. Yes, they will react once, but won't go further most of the
time. i remember that with my publisher we made a special Cobra pamphlet
with a video tape of to episodes from the tv series. We had the right from
Shueisha to put as many illustrations we wanted in the little book
accompanying the tape - taken from Cobr'as different mangas ! And we took a
nice illustration for the cover witch happened to be from the movie release
stuff ! So we receive three months later a letter from the movie owner (TMS
i think) who asked us if we had autorisation for this illustration. But as
the package was allready sold, we send a excuse letter and they never writte
back.
Well, it is just a example from France. We don't have a Mulder and Scully
chasing little fans using stuff copyrighted !!