a ritual I've never seen
ausla...@hotmail.com
Before I get to what this is about, I'd like to put a few qualifications
below. First, don't reply if you're just going to tell me that this idea is
stupid, foolish, or not well thought out. I won't read a reply that begins
like that anyway. Secondly, your magickal style doesn't matter. I'll
welcome replies from witches, shamans (shamen? . . . seems sexist), as well
as students of the hermetic schools . . . anyone. Finally, reply just to say
it's impossible or that it doesn't exist. I don't need that kind of
feedback, so don't waste both of our time.
Well, here goes.
I am looking for a ritual that will tie the souls of two willing people
together through at least two lifetimes, thus allowing them to find each
other in their next lives. The closest thing I've heard to this is a ritual
that allows an adept to keep his mind (fairly) intact into the next life. I
thought I'd have to create this ritual myself, but my wife says she's heard
of it in legends. Right now, that's all I know, but if anyone has any useful
information, please let me know. This isn't incredibly urgent, but I will
find this out eventually.
Thanks in advance for any help offered,
Bob
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Suzanne Simmons
<6vibs4$fdq$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>I am looking for a ritual that will tie the souls of two willing people
>together through at least two lifetimes, thus allowing them to find each
>other in their next lives. The closest thing I've heard to this is a ritual
>that allows an adept to keep his mind (fairly) intact into the next life.
I
>thought I'd have to create this ritual myself, but my wife says she's heard
>of it in legends.
>**It exists, it's called a soul bonding ritual. I dunno about how many
lifetimes it would bond specifically, it is an affirmation of two
people that they are soulmates, that's all. It is approached by two
partners that have been together AT LEAST ten years.It is NOT perfromed
by one upon another unwitting recipient.It is a kind of
"ultra" handfasting, so to speak.It is rarely perfromed because most people
don't know if they have found their soulmate, so handfastings are "for as
long as love shall last" , and if that means from this life to the
next,fine and good.If not, well....that is as Fate is, and is not
always what we would wish for.I am with my soulmate, but we feel no
need for a bonding ritual. We are soul bonded without a Magick ritual,
just because.If I may, I ask why you want such a ritual? I doubt one
can zap one's brain into remembering one's past lives, it seems to be
more of a freak occurrence when one is " born remembering". The reason
for this is a good one, IMO, it is just not meet for an innocent new
vessel of life to be burdened with it's soul's previous existence. The
only religious context of remembering past lives is in Buddhic
teachings, when one attains the highest spiritual levels.
Anyways, I feel one should ponder upon something of this
nature long and hard before attempting something drastic.
Rhyanon**
Tom Schuler
>below. First, don't reply if you're just going to tell me that this idea is
>stupid, foolish, or not well thought out.
That spoils half the fun. So many folks seeking magical rituals have a foolish
reason for doing them.
>I am looking for a ritual that will tie the souls of two willing people
>together through at least two lifetimes, thus allowing them to find each
>other in their next lives. The closest thing I've heard to this is a ritual
>that allows an adept to keep his mind (fairly) intact into the next life. I
>thought I'd have to create this ritual myself, but my wife says she's heard
>of it in legends. Right now, that's all I know, but if anyone has any useful
>information, please let me know. This isn't incredibly urgent, but I will
>find this out eventually.
Any ritual devised for this purpose would have entirely unverifiable results,
because the very notion of an individual reincarnating in another body is
unsupported by any solid evidence. Thus a ritual which proposed to control a
process which is not even certain to exist would be dubious.
So, since absolutely no ritual exists which could do more than offer a baseless
claim of efficacy in this regard, you should minimize the hassle of seeking
some obscure ceremony and make one up yourself, deciding that it will do what
want it to and proceeding from there. I think your original idea to do this
was sound. You'd probably find a self-composed ritual more satisfying anyway.
Then. later, when you and your multi-lifetime partner get sick of each other
and split up, you can make up a ritual with the equally baseless claim to sever
the bond.
Ain't love grand?
Rick
> Hello.
> Before I get to what this is about, I'd like to put a few qualifications
> below. First, don't reply if you're just going to tell me that this idea is
> stupid, foolish, or not well thought out. I won't read a reply that begins
> like that anyway. Secondly, your magickal style doesn't matter. I'll
> welcome replies from witches, shamans (shamen? . . . seems sexist), as well
> as students of the hermetic schools . . . anyone. Finally, reply just to say
> it's impossible or that it doesn't exist. I don't need that kind of
> feedback, so don't waste both of our time.
You're provisions fall on deaf eyes. A ritual follows, but first you
have to read my disclaimers. Your idea is foolish, stupid, and not well
thought out. Read or don't read the rest as you Will.
> Well, here goes.
> I am looking for a ritual that will tie the souls of two willing people
> together through at least two lifetimes, thus allowing them to find each
> other in their next lives.
No one can guarantee that you will even have a next life. But read on,
there's a very powerful ritual below.
> The closest thing I've heard to this is a ritual
> that allows an adept to keep his mind (fairly) intact into the next life. I
> thought I'd have to create this ritual myself, but my wife says she's heard
> of it in legends.
What follows is a ritual of my own design. If there are legendery
rituals for this purpose, I've never heard of them.
> Right now, that's all I know, but if anyone has any useful
> information, please let me know. This isn't incredibly urgent, but I will
> find this out eventually.
I'm not recommending that anyone actual perform this ritual. I offer it
as an example of a power ritual structure, for the sole purpose of
furthering the technical and scholarly discussion of magick. Anyone
foolish enough to perform this rite does so at his/her own peril, and
accepts full responsibility for the results.
_______________________________________________________________________
Setting:
Choose a setting that is meaningful to both participants: a forest
clearing, sea-cliffs, a temple, etc. Be sure you will not be disturbed
or observed by passers by. Involve no one but those to be bound
together.
Items needed:
Bring only yourselves, the clothes on your backs, drinking water, some
bread, a razor sharp knife that has never been used for anything before,
peroxide, sterile gause bandages, and cloth tape.
Preparation:
Create a symbol of your intent. In this case to bind your souls for
eternity (attempting to put a limit on this, like "at least two
lifetimes" doesn't make any sense to me). Make the symbol as simple as
you can. Both must participate in its creation.
If you wish, you can exorsise and bless the water, bread, and knife
ahead of time or as part of the opening of the ceremony. This is
optional.
Remove all clothing and jewelry.
If you normally use a ritual opening such as elemental/planetary
banishings and or evocations, do so immediately after removing clothes.
Here's an example of a ceremonial ritual opening:
http://home.earthlink.net/~iopan/WT.html
If you regularly invoke deity in your rituals, do so now.
Nothing this elaborate is required. In fact this portion need only be as
ceremonial as you desire. No 'official' opening is required, other than
removing your clothes.
Have the bread, water, peroxide, bandages, and tape handy but out of the
way.
From this moment on, speak no words.
Sit or stand facing each other, one of you holding the knife (it doesn't
matter which).
*A note on frame of mind* If there are any doubts in your mind(s) at
this point, hug and stop! The proper mental state is "as blank as
possible." If any thought at all crosses your mind (other than an
overwhelming need to stop) let it come and go, pay it no attention at
all. It is helpful if you practice this skill a lot prior to such a
rite.
Binding:
The one holding the knife carves the symbol into the flesh of the other.
It doesn't matter where but care must be given to avoid severing an
artery. The symbol must be carved deeply enough to scar.
Then the one who just carved the symbol sucks blood from the wound. Do
so as long as feels right. Stop when you feel it's time to stop. Then
hand the knife to the other partner.
Now the other partner carves the same symbol into the flesh of the other
and sucks blood from the wound in the same manner. Stop when it feels
right to stop.
Now press the wounds together and hold as long as it feels right.
Now have long, slow intercourse to orgasm with much forpelay. Make it
last as long as you can. Simultaneous orgasm is best, and is perhaps a
very good sign, but it's not required. Both should have orgasms in any
event.
Closing:
Relax in eachothers arms, kiss and caress for as long as feels right.
Clean and dress eachothers wounds. Then share the bread and water with
eachother, maintaining eye contact as you do.
If ceremonial openings were used, follow with appropriate closings
(Thank and dismiss deity if invoked, do proper banaishings, etc.)
Put your clothes on and leave the area.
Afterward:
Tend the wounds carefully. If it appears no scar will form, additional
cutting is required. Use the same knife used in the ceremony. Never use
that knife for any other purpose. Display the knife in a place of honer
in your bedroom.
*Additional note* Study up on scarification before hand. Here's a brief
FAQ on the practice:
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/hypertext/faq/usenet/bodyart/alternative-faq/faq-doc-6.html
Visit a tattoo/piercing establishment and get advice prom professionals.
_______________________________________________________________________
It is my most sincere belief that this ritual will bind you forever.
--
Rick
Nighthawk
Priestess that performed the ceremony (we are solitaries, or would that be
binaries since we work together) told us that there were two variations.
One bound the two for "As long as the love shall last, or this life, or a
year and a day or what ever time period is desired". The other binds the
souls "for all time" which binds the souls in this life, and all that come
after. This is not a choice to be taken lightly.
Blessed Be
Nighthawk
MarketIce
ausla...@hotmail.com, wrote in article:
<6vibs4$fdq$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>:
>I am looking for a ritual that will tie the souls of two willing people
>together through at least two lifetimes, thus allowing them to find each
>other in their next lives. The closest thing I've heard to this is a ritual
>that allows an adept to keep his mind (fairly) intact into the next life. I
>thought I'd have to create this ritual myself, but my wife says she's heard
>of it in legends. Right now, that's all I know, but if anyone has any useful
>information, please let me know. This isn't incredibly urgent, but I will
>find this out eventually.
>
>Thanks in advance for any help offered,
>Bob
Here is the basic technique:
Well then let's bite into some stuff! One of the most powerful tools that a
magickian can have is of course a house. If at all possible, this house should
be located an a hill, and have both an attic and a basement. In addition to
that, if the location has steps leading up the hillside, so much the better.
Inside your house, the attic should have large closets, or crawl spaces. The
basement should have storage rooms and an outside door.
What you should be doing of course is to lovingly visualize each and every inch
of it. For instance, start from your attic, and imagine walking through it and
inspecting every nook and cranny. Check the view from each attic window, then
go down the stairway to the second floor. Starting from the bottom of the
attic stairs, begin to imagine going through each room on this floor. Follow
this procedure until you are at the basement door. You should practice this as
often as you can. When you perform rituals at home, you should make a choice
as to whether you want to practice high or low Magick. When you practice high
Magick, use your attic. When you practice low Magick, use your basement.
To use your new found tool, keep a lamp at your bedside that you only use for
this purpose (or a flashlight, if you sleep with a partner). Before you go to
sleep, check to see if it is fully functional, visualize your entire house,
then go to sleep. What you want to do is this, every time that you wake up
during the night, make a habit of turning on that light. Then, when you try to
turn on your light, and it doesn't work-- you are now in a lucid dream. Calm
down now. Sit up, and try again to turn on your light. If it still doesn't
work, now is the time to perform your favorite ritual, or just carefully
explore your house. At this point, some people may want to try telekinesis
experiments. So go move some objects to see the result when you awaken.
Some people might want to see what's going on in their subconscious, and
here is where the house becomes a diagnostic tool-- as the attic becomes the
representative of the mind itself, and the basement becomes the representative
of the instincts. What you want to do is find that both places are swept neat
and clean. Be sure to check *all* of your nooks and crannies, you may be in
for a journey.
But all kidding aside, now is the time to perform a ritual. It will be
entirely up to *you* if it is a solitary ritual or not. And also, as we begin
to delve deeper into the levels of consciousness, the people you join may or
may not be *other* people (asleep and beyond!)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[In this case, you would be trying to contact each other. [Your ritual would be
to express your love to each other in [any way you see fit, say, exploring the
house hand in hand, [etc.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
But remember, if you have the
idea to create destructive vibrations, you are now right smack dab in the
middle of them. Hence, my opinion is to use the time to explore, but if you
encounter any trouble, handle it. Here also, I shall put forth the concept
that the person should not deliberately try to develop a concept that is too
far
removed from our physical reality. I would say try to stick to things like
levitation,
flying (the sky's the limit!), underwater voyages, etc. Avoid the old razzle
dazzle
type of encounters if you can.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You won't find any better method to achieve your goal.
>------Market Ice-------<
http://members.aol.com/meltdarok
This site is now another gateway to the web
"Find it, assemble it, sell it, buy it;
after that then--
salvage what you can."
$remove hotwater to e-mail$
Julianus
Just a linguistic note:
ausla...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Secondly, your magickal style doesn't matter. I'll
> welcome replies from witches, shamans (shamen? . . . seems sexist),
It isn't. The word _shaman_ comes from the language of the Tungus
people of Siberia and is gender-neutral, ie: applied equally to both men
and women. The resemblance of the second syllable to the English word
"man" is pure coincidence.
93 93/93!
-- John
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Nothing on the face of this earth -- and I do mean nothing --
is half so dangerous as a children's story that happens to be
real, and you and I are wandering blindfolded through a myth
devised by a maniac."
-- Master Li Kao (T'ang Dynasty)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*** John's Creeping Homepage of Doom ***
http://www.enteract.com/~julianus/main.html
~~~ Art Portfolio ~ Typhonian Tomes ~ Qartoon Qabalah ~~~
~~~ Magical Games ~ Lovecraftian Qabalah ~ The Thelemite Test ~~~
Evil Ninja Renfield
>
>
> I am looking for a ritual that will tie the souls of two willing people
> together through at least two lifetimes, thus allowing them to find each
> other in their next lives. The closest thing I've heard to this is a ritual
> that allows an adept to keep his mind (fairly) intact into the next life. I
> thought I'd have to create this ritual myself, but my wife says she's heard
> of it in legends. Right now, that's all I know, but if anyone has any useful
> information, please let me know. This isn't incredibly urgent, but I will
> find this out eventually.
>
Tough ritual to create....
Give me some time.
-Renfield
Rick
> One bound the two for "As long as the love shall last, or this life, or a
> year and a day or what ever time period is desired". The other binds the
> souls "for all time" which binds the souls in this life, and all that come
> after. This is not a choice to be taken lightly.
So the priest using the words, "for all time" is all it takes?
Huh!
--
Rick
Evil Ninja Renfield
>
> Nighthawk wrote:
>
> > One bound the two for "As long as the love shall last, or this life, or a
> > year and a day or what ever time period is desired". The other binds the
> > souls "for all time" which binds the souls in this life, and all that come
> > after. This is not a choice to be taken lightly.
>
> So the priest using the words, "for all time" is all it takes?
>
> Huh!
Oh, come on.
Like carving sigils into your body, which completly is phased out
by new cells every eight years, is going to make two people
find each other in completly new bodies after a turn of the wheel.
-Renfield
Rick
> Rick wrote:
> > So the priest using the words, "for all time" is all it takes?
> > Huh!
> Oh, come on.
> Like carving sigils into your body, which completly is phased out
> by new cells every eight years, is going to make two people
> find each other in completly new bodies after a turn of the wheel.
Re-cutting is generally required to keep them prominant. Even if they
are allowed to fade, the initial act itself is far more significant than
what remains on the flesh. It's certainly more involving than having a
third party say the word, "forever" in a ceremony.
Ritual scarification is a deeply moving experience with far reaching
effects when performed with Will and intent. So is exchanging blood in
the manner I prescribed. I threw the sex in because I like sex a lot.
--
Rick
Rick
> Rick wrote:
> > So the priest using the words, "for all time" is all it takes?
> Not totally, it requires the will of the participants at the time.
You know me, I like grand gestures.
> Not that different from the Xtian method, if you think about it.
Not so different.
> "As long as ye both shall live" in a religion that believes in eternal
> life? what does that say to you?
That marriage is a mortal thing in their view.
> I find the concept amusing:
> If the two individuals are indeed twin stars, (a rara avis indeed!)
> then no ceremony will keep them apart.
> If not, no ceremony will keep them together.
There's at least as much truth in that as there is fantasy. It's a 'who
knows' proposition.
--
Rick
Evil Ninja Renfield
> Re-cutting is generally required to keep them prominant. Even if they
> are allowed to fade, the initial act itself is far more significant than
> what remains on the flesh. It's certainly more involving than having a
> third party say the word, "forever" in a ceremony.
>
> Ritual scarification is a deeply moving experience with far reaching
> effects when performed with Will and intent. So is exchanging blood in
> the manner I prescribed. I threw the sex in because I like sex a lot.
I have this mental image of a 50 year old man in a
white lab coat bespattered with blood, tufts of
black hair to either side, thick eyebrows, glasses
and a scalpel in hand saying these things, recorded
on bad videotape (always these things are on bad
videotape; the Akashic Librarians demand it).
I suggest an experiment to see if this ritual
can work with living people in this life.
We can blindfold and gag them and put them
on opposite sides of a shopping mall and see if
they can find one another before the day is out.
-Renfield
richard sprigg
>
> Nighthawk wrote:
>
> > One bound the two for "As long as the love shall last, or this life, or a
> > year and a day or what ever time period is desired". The other binds the
> > souls "for all time" which binds the souls in this life, and all that come after.
This is not a choice to be taken lightly.
>
Not totally, it requires the will of the participants at the time.
Not that different from the Xtian method, if you think about it.
"As long as ye both shall live" in a religion that believes in eternal
life? what does that say to you?
I find the concept amusing:
richard sprigg
>
> Ain't love grand?
Like pianos: lust, of course, is upright.
In my experience the aftermath of love is about Ten Grand, annually.
Cheap at any price, though.
Tom Schuler
Rick wrote in message <361D4E...@earthlink.net>...
>
>So the priest using the words, "for all time" is all it takes?
Sure. It works no matter who you believe, as long as they tell you that.
Of course, you have to consider that you might be different species next
life and risk arrest for sodomy. Then again, most of us risk arrest for
that in one or another of its various forms on a very regular basis.
richard sprigg
>
> richard sprigg wrote:
>
> > Rick wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "As long as ye both shall live" in a religion that believes in eternal life? what does that say to you?
>
Heh. Nice pun.
my congratulations.
>
> > I find the concept amusing:
> > If the two individuals are indeed twin stars, (a rara avis indeed!)
> > then no ceremony will keep them apart.
> > If not, no ceremony will keep them together.
>
> There's at least as much truth in that as there is fantasy. It's a 'who knows' proposition.
I let the Gods sort it out.
I have enough problems getting through *this* life.
Fuck'em if they can't take a joke.
> --
> Rick
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~iopan/
Gary Achenbach
says...
> I won't read a reply that begins
> like that anyway.
...
> I don't need that kind of
> feedback, so don't waste both of our time.
>
This type of habit might interfere in the second lifetime. What if
person X and person Y have been "bound", after the fashion you're looking
for, in lifetime 1, but in lifetime 2 person Y's first impression of
person X is unfavorable, and therefore sie shuts down any possible
further impressions out of hand? It's something to think about in the
design process.
> Well, here goes.
>
> I am looking for a ritual that will tie the souls of two willing people
> together through at least two lifetimes, thus allowing them to find each
> other in their next lives. The closest thing I've heard to this is a ritual
> that allows an adept to keep his mind (fairly) intact into the next life. I
> thought I'd have to create this ritual myself, but my wife says she's heard
> of it in legends.
All rituals that you practice are created yourself--even the ones you
pick up out of books or teachers or normal culturization or whatnot.
That pithiness out of the way, I'd suggest you bend your efforts to
designing and implementing your own.
Depending on how you design it, it could make liftime 1 that much more
enjoyable for both people.
--Gar
-ZZ
>I threw the sex in because I like sex a lot.
Thanks for sharing that little detail there, Rick. We might have
missed it otherwise.
-ZZ
-ZZ
>I am looking for a ritual that will tie the souls of two willing people
>together through at least two lifetimes, thus allowing them to find each
>other in their next lives. The closest thing I've heard to this is a ritual
>that allows an adept to keep his mind (fairly) intact into the next life. I
>thought I'd have to create this ritual myself, but my wife says she's heard
>of it in legends. Right now, that's all I know, but if anyone has any useful
>information, please let me know. This isn't incredibly urgent, but I will
>find this out eventually.
Why would you want to do this?
I'm guessing you're referring to you and your wife, who presumably
love each other very much and want to be together.
But why take actions now to alter your free will in the next lifetime?
-ZZ
Roel van Leeuwen
>Any ritual devised for this purpose would have entirely unverifiable results,
>because the very notion of an individual reincarnating in another body is
>unsupported by any solid evidence. Thus a ritual which proposed to control a
>process which is not even certain to exist would be dubious.
>
>So, since absolutely no ritual exists which could do more than offer a baseless
>claim of efficacy in this regard, you should minimize the hassle of seeking
>some obscure ceremony and make one up yourself, deciding that it will do what
>want it to and proceeding from there. I think your original idea to do this
>was sound. You'd probably find a self-composed ritual more satisfying anyway.
>
>
>Then. later, when you and your multi-lifetime partner get sick of each other
>and split up, you can make up a ritual with the equally baseless claim to sever
>the bond.
>
>Ain't love grand?
>
Oh, what a nasty cynical man Tom is.
I bet he doesn't even wear pastle or own a crystal.
Roel van Leeuwen
Roel van Leeuwen
<r...@cisco.com> wrote:
>Rick wrote:
>>
>> Nighthawk wrote:
>>
>> > One bound the two for "As long as the love shall last, or this life, or a
>> > year and a day or what ever time period is desired". The other binds the
>> > souls "for all time" which binds the souls in this life, and all that come
>> > after. This is not a choice to be taken lightly.
>>
>> So the priest using the words, "for all time" is all it takes?
>>
>> Huh!
>
>
>Oh, come on.
>
>Like carving sigils into your body, which completly is phased out
>by new cells every eight years,
You mean I haven't really got this scar on my leg from when I was 9??
Yipeeee
I am whole! I am whole!!!
Roel
-------------------
Roel van Leeuwen
Roel van Leeuwen
Funny you should suggest that.
many moons ago when I was young, STUPID and very, very bullet proof
myself and my lady conducted a similar ritual.
Now some years later after a lot of crap I think she is a deceptive,
manipulating, nasty, grasping, self centred bitch.
But I still see her regulary and sometimes we even fuck but every time
we meet I come away thinking she is a deceptive, manipulating, nasty,
grasping, self centred bitch.
It is a situation I would not wish on anyone - unless it will get me
away from her, then I think it is a bloody good idea.
However, like all things magical there is perfectly rational and
mundane explanations to this event.
...this is not to say I would pay cold hard cash for a good hexbuster.
TECHNICAL NOTE:
we didn't do anything fancy like carve sigils or runes but rather just
made simple slit with a razor on the palm of our hands.
hmmmmm, come to think of it prehaps I should have taken more notice of
the glazed look of rapture on her face when she cut my palm with what
I thought was altogether too much enthuasim...
Yours tragically
Tom Schuler
-ZZ <-z...@mailcity.SPAMAWAY.com> wrote in message
<361dcc53...@news.btinternet.com>...
>
>But why take actions now to alter your free will in the next lifetime?
Huh. As if anything you could do would alter free will.
Tom Schuler
Roel van Leeuwen wrote in message <361dcd6b...@news.wave.co.nz>...
>
>many moons ago when I was young, STUPID and very, very bullet proof
>myself and my lady conducted a similar ritual.
>
>Now some years later after a lot of crap I think she is a deceptive,
>manipulating, nasty, grasping, self centred bitch.
What's the difference between cynicism and a clear view of the way things
work?
ausla...@hotmail.com
> >I am looking for a ritual that will tie the souls of two willing people
> >together through at least two lifetimes, thus allowing them to find each
> >other in their next lives. The closest thing I've heard to this is a ritual
> >that allows an adept to keep his mind (fairly) intact into the next life. I
> >thought I'd have to create this ritual myself, but my wife says she's heard
> >of it in legends. Right now, that's all I know, but if anyone has any useful
> >information, please let me know. This isn't incredibly urgent, but I will
> >find this out eventually.
>
> Why would you want to do this?
>
> I'm guessing you're referring to you and your wife, who presumably
> love each other very much and want to be together.
>
> But why take actions now to alter your free will in the next lifetime?
>
> -ZZ
Good guess. Right now, I'm just looking. It's something that entered my
mind recently when a new philosophy jumped into my head and abruptly reminded
me of my own mortality. Still, I'm not rushing to do anything. We've agreed
that if we're going to do anything, it won't be for at least 6 years, a good
long time for considering the ramifications. In the end, we'll probably
build our own using bits from what I'm reading and learning even now. As for
the "free will in the next lifetime" thing, well, you may consider that a
problem, and I respect your point of view, in that it's right for you. I,
however, know enough about my nature to know that if this forms a problem in
my next life, I'll do anything, up to and including going back in time and
kicking my own ass to prevent it! :-) Much thanks to everyone who threw in
some useful advice up to this point, and please keep going, I can always use
more!
Rick
> Rick wrote:
> > Ritual scarification is a deeply moving experience with far reaching
> > effects when performed with Will and intent. So is exchanging blood in
> > the manner I prescribed. I threw the sex in because I like sex a lot.
> I have this mental image of a 50 year old man in a
> white lab coat bespattered with blood, tufts of
> black hair to either side, thick eyebrows, glasses
> and a scalpel in hand saying these things, recorded
> on bad videotape (always these things are on bad
> videotape; the Akashic Librarians demand it).
Interesting image. I see an instructional (or porno) video tape series
forming.
> I suggest an experiment to see if this ritual
> can work with living people in this life.
> We can blindfold and gag them and put them
> on opposite sides of a shopping mall and see if
> they can find one another before the day is out.
I do enjoy blindfolding and gagging people. Forcing them to fumble about
the mall sounds like fun too.
*Note in case anyone missed it*
I didn't gaurantee any 'afterlife' effects from the ritual, nor did I
promise monogomay, that the two would live together for the rest of this
life, or that they would love eachother.
--
Rick
Rick
> Thanks for sharing that little detail there, Rick. We might have
> missed it otherwise.
You're welcome. I'm really coming out of my shell.
--
Rick
Rick
[snip]
> Yours tragically
> Roel van Leeuwen
I'm glad you shared your story. In a world where the only constant is
change, and the human mind is so very fallable, attemting to force
permanance is almost always a mistake. There's always a chance of
getting lucky, but I think you've got way better odds of winning big at
Vegas.
I should have pointed out that a ritual such as I posted does have one
very predictable effect: obsession.
As Tom suggested, it's just as possible to create a ritual to break the
bond as it is to form it. Since you still fuck her once in awhile, I
might suggest a sex-magick format. I'm sure you're cabable of designing
your own, but if anyone would like to see how I might do it, ask and
I'll post one.
--
Rick
Tom Schuler
Rick wrote in message <361E23...@earthlink.net>...
>
>As Tom suggested, it's just as possible to create a ritual to break the
>bond as it is to form it. Since you still fuck her once in awhile, I
>might suggest a sex-magick format. I'm sure you're cabable of designing
>your own, but if anyone would like to see how I might do it, ask and
>I'll post one.
Actually, I would recommend you stop fucking her as one step towards breaking
the bond. Sexual activity tends to strengthen habitual interactions with one's
partner, not weaken them. If you wish to use sex magick to sever an emotional
attachment, you should use a different partner.
Rick
[snip]
> .. and please keep going, I can always use
> more!
You could participate in the discussion a little more, Bob.
--
Rick
Roel van Leeuwen
wrote:
hmmm, that'll be as successful as a lead zeppelin when I approach a
comely lass at the Saturday night barn dance and black mass...
Me: "hey babe, can I fuck you so I can use the energy for a sex-magic
ritual...not that I really want to fuck you but I can't seem to break
free of an obsession I have with shagging my last girlfriend and
getting a leg over you might help - not that I actually *want* to
stop...".
hmmm, I think not...
but then again, the law of sympathetic magic would mean that the lass
would have to be tall, blonde and stacked like a wood shed...
and if we look at the law of contagious magic I guess that would mean
they really should *both* be part of the operation...
I don't suppose there is any tall blond lasses out there in
electronic-land who would be willing to help a poor bloke recover part
of his soul...? :>
A tad more seriously:
So far it has proven to be a sticky situation and not quite that easy
to break. Mind you part of the problem is of course subconsciously
you don't actually want to break free...vicious circle
TIP FOR NEW PLAYERS
Don't invoke strange gods until you have at least had dinner with them
first.
And never, ever 'swing' with them...
cheers
R.
ausla...@hotmail.com
> ausla...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > .. and please keep going, I can always use
> > more!
>
> You could participate in the discussion a little more, Bob.
> --
> Rick
It seems to be drifting along just fine, and it isn't as though this is MY
computer to have constant access to or anything, but by way of participation,
I have noticed a few little things.
The general flow seems to say that although the ritual is possible, it isn't
necessarily desirable, and the cure may be worse than the disease. I'm still
looking, and gathering more data on the "should I", as opposed to the "how do
I", which is fine. However, referring to a previous post that brought up free
will: almost all decisions reflect in some later limitation of free will, the
only difference here is that it'll seem as though I'm being acted upon by an
outside force when I'm not (really).
Prime example of why I need to OWN a computer, as opposed to just working on
one; I now have to go. Sorry, Rick, I'm sure I'll get back on SOMETIME this
weekend.
Erwin Hessle
Rick wrote in message <361E21...@earthlink.net>...
>-ZZ wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 08 Oct 1998 18:15:57 -0700, Rick <io...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> >I threw the sex in because I like sex a lot.
>
>> Thanks for sharing that little detail there, Rick. We might have
>> missed it otherwise.
>
>You're welcome. I'm really coming out of my shell.
Better than coming in your shell, I suppose.
Erwin Hessle, 8=3
Evil Ninja Renfield
>
> You mean I haven't really got this scar on my leg from when I was 9??
>
> Yipeeee
>
> I am whole! I am whole!!!
>
What, you think scar tissue is immortal?
-Renfield
Evil Ninja Renfield
>
>
>
> *Note in case anyone missed it*
>
Oh pooh. I missed it.
> I didn't gaurantee any 'afterlife' effects from the ritual, nor did I
> promise monogomay, that the two would live together for the rest of this
> life, or that they would love eachother.
>
That's *so* romantic.
*goosh* *shlurp* *shlup* *shlup* *shlup*
-Renfield
Roel van Leeuwen
hmmm....
"...feel the quickening Conner McScar..."
...prehaps not.
Well put it this way my scar on my leg has been around for over two
decades, though admittedly at the rate it is going it may fade before
I am 50, and I have a friend who fell off her motorbike at 120 kmph
and mangled her leg and there is no way in Hell, Heaven or Earth she
is ever going to be scar free. Ever.
It may even take a few lifetimes to clear.
Either way we both have had these injuries for just a little more than
6 years, but we have come to love them, and gee, sometimes they just
feel like they are a part of us.
and I am not even going to mention tattoos and African ritual
scarification.
Tom Schuler
Roel van Leeuwen wrote in message <361e368c...@news.wave.co.nz>...
>>the bond. Sexual activity tends to strengthen habitual interactions with
one's
>>partner, not weaken them. If you wish to use sex magick to sever an
emotional
>>attachment, you should use a different partner.
>>
>hmmm, that'll be as successful as a lead zeppelin when I approach a
>comely lass at the Saturday night barn dance and black mass...
>
>Me: "hey babe, can I fuck you so I can use the energy for a sex-magic
>ritual...not that I really want to fuck you but I can't seem to break
>free of an obsession I have with shagging my last girlfriend and
>getting a leg over you might help - not that I actually *want* to
>stop...".
Are you saying that you really don't want sex with anyone but a self-centered,
manipulative bitch? That's OK, there are plenty of those around too. And they
don't mind being lied to, since they do the same thing. Of course, she won't
turn out any better than the last one for a long-term partner, but then that's
not what you want her for anyway.
>but then again, the law of sympathetic magic would mean that the lass
>would have to be tall, blonde and stacked like a wood shed...
You've got it backwards again. What you want is a short brunette with small
breasts. That's different, see. If you get somebody who looks the same as
your old partner, then you are increasing the attachment instead of decreasing
it.
>and if we look at the law of contagious magic I guess that would mean
>they really should *both* be part of the operation...
Well, that might be fun and possibly challenging, but again, you can't decrease
an attachment by feeding into it.
>I don't suppose there is any tall blond lasses out there in
>electronic-land who would be willing to help a poor bloke recover part
>of his soul...? :>
That's got potential. Go for the short brunettes, though.
>A tad more seriously:
>So far it has proven to be a sticky situation and not quite that easy
>to break. Mind you part of the problem is of course subconsciously
>you don't actually want to break free...vicious circle
This is the nature of habits and why some folks find them difficult to break.
We are not willing to put up with the discomfort that comes with a lack of
indulgence. As soon as we are so willing, the habit becomes history.
Tom Schuler
ausla...@hotmail.com wrote in message <6vloed$ai9$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>
>However, referring to a previous post that brought up free
>will: almost all decisions reflect in some later limitation of free will, the
>only difference here is that it'll seem as though I'm being acted upon by an
>outside force when I'm not (really).
It is possible to make a decision and stick to that decision throughout one's
life. It is also possible at any time to abrogate that decision and do
something differently. The act of making a commitment is not a restriction of
will but an exercise of it. Will cannot be restricted. How that will can
manifest at any given moment may be limited by circumstance, but will finds a
way, given sufficient time and energy.
Erwin Hessle
Tom Schuler wrote in message ...
>Will cannot be restricted. How that will can
>manifest at any given moment may be limited by circumstance, but will finds
a
>way, given sufficient time and energy.
That's because Will *is* the way.
Erwin Hessle, 8=3
Evil Ninja Renfield
>
>
> It seems to be drifting along just fine, and it isn't as though this is MY
> computer to have constant access to or anything, but by way of participation,
> I have noticed a few little things.
>
> The general flow seems to say that although the ritual is possible, it isn't
> necessarily desirable, and the cure may be worse than the disease. I'm still
> looking, and gathering more data on the "should I", as opposed to the "how do
> I", which is fine. However, referring to a previous post that brought up free
> will: almost all decisions reflect in some later limitation of free will, the
> only difference here is that it'll seem as though I'm being acted upon by an
> outside force when I'm not (really).
>
> Prime example of why I need to OWN a computer, as opposed to just working on
> one; I now have to go. Sorry, Rick, I'm sure I'll get back on SOMETIME this
> weekend.
You do know that once the ritual is designed, you and your spouse are
going to have to be really good magicians to perform it.
Like, really, really good.
Like 20 years of practice good (or so...I dunno, this is way over me
,even designing the ritual is way beyond me, it's just something fun
to do and educational).
What you want to do consists of understanding souls, or the 'DNA'
of your mind, and rewriting a portion of it (without messing up
other portions). Being able to do this would make you immensely
powerful, even just understanding you own, never mind other people's.
(If such things as souls can be expressed as symbol sets even...)
Then you want to have it withstand death, which means understanding
death very well. Even knowing an eighth of this would make you
immensely powerful.
I've gotten cracking already. Hit the bookstore and got a bunch of
books about death recommended by the Zen Hospice Center of San
Francisco.
I suggest you and you spouse get cracking too if you *really* want to do
this.
Otherwise when you get the ritual it may be as incomprehensible as a
RAID box manual to a pygmy.
Then the darn ritual has to be *tested* and results posted to alt.magick
in a timely manner. Which means mastering time as well as death. Eek!
If even these things are possible, which its possible they're not...
Things to do, people to meet, ayup ayup...
-Renfield
MarketIce
From the depths of the killfile I have thus been reborn, and so:
"Tom Schuler" <d...@teleport.com>, wrote in article:
<gnvT1.26450$K02.15...@news.teleport.com>:
> The act of making a commitment is not a restriction of
>will but an exercise of it. Will cannot be restricted. How that will can
>manifest at any given moment may be limited by circumstance, but will finds a
>way, given sufficient time and energy.
>
>
That's what I tell the fundies how evolution works.
>------Market Ice-------<
http://members.aol.com/meltdarok
This site is now another gateway to the web
"Find it, assemble it, sell it, buy it;
after that then--
salvage what you can."
$remove hotwater to e-mail$
richard sprigg
>
> TECHNICAL NOTE:
> we didn't do anything fancy like carve sigils or runes but rather just
> made simple slit with a razor on the palm of our hands.
>
> hmmmmm, come to think of it prehaps I should have taken more notice of
> the glazed look of rapture on her face when she cut my palm with what
> I thought was altogether too much enthuasim...
heh.
The only form of that ritual that is likely to be successful is the one
shown in "Aria" (the strauss section).
The best banishing for this type of situation, in my experience, is
change.
Travel, get a job elsewhere, whatever, but go.
richard sprigg
Cynicism is tempered with optimism.
mae...@nospam.demon.co.uk
>welcome replies from witches, shamans (shamen? . . . seems sexist),
I've heard the term "shamenka" used to denote
shamen of a female persuasion. FWIW, anyway.
Mae Tang
- As I seldom check this group of late, it may be
best to contact me by e-mail for follow-ups.
(replace "nospam" with "nu-it" for a valid e-mail address)
Tom Schuler
MarketIce wrote in message <19981009215857...@ng40.aol.com>...
>
>From the depths of the killfile I have thus been reborn, and so:
Every now and then I check in with the folks who got dumped, to see if they
have done anything interesting. Octonimos has been in and out of my
killfile several times, for example. You have been interesting lately.
MarketIce
Actually, in my online experiences, I still cannot quite fathom what reason
some people find me interesting. From my POV, I haven't done anything different
lately that would make you change your mind. And I still say that today's Mage
should strive to be a straight-forward, upright Pastor, of a mainstream
Christian church. (And the tale of the tape is that I do lean towards the
left!)
Tom Schuler
MarketIce wrote in message <19981010212025...@ng06.aol.com>...
they
>>have done anything interesting. Octonimos has been in and out of my
>>killfile several times, for example. You have been interesting lately.
>>
>Actually, in my online experiences, I still cannot quite fathom what reason
>some people find me interesting.
There is no accounting for tastes.
>From my POV, I haven't done anything different
>lately that would make you change your mind.
O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae monie a blunder free us
An foolish notion:
What airs in dress an gait wad lea'es us,
An ev'n devotion!
-- Robbie Burns
>And I still say that today's Mage
>should strive to be a straight-forward, upright Pastor, of a mainstream
>Christian church.
Well, that's one application, at any rate.
Rick
> Rick wrote in message <361E23...@earthlink.net>...
> Actually, I would recommend you stop fucking her as one step towards breaking
> the bond.
This approach almost always works, given enough time.
> Sexual activity tends to strengthen habitual interactions with one's
> partner, not weaken them.
That depends entirely on the state of mind at the time of intercource,
which can be manipulated with enough effort.
> If you wish to use sex magick to sever an emotional
> attachment, you should use a different partner.
That's not a bad suggestion. Tha magick of finding another partner might
be enough all by itself, again, given enough time.
I think the immediacy of the person in question (having sex with her
with the intent of magickally severing all ties to her) could be used to
good effect. But then again, if you could muster the mental discipline
to do it that way, you probably wouldn't need to do it at all.
--
Rick
ausla...@hotmail.com
Evil Ninja Renfield <r...@cisco.com> wrote:
Yeah, I completely expect that. If, after all that work, I find that we're
incapable of it, it either gives us something to shoot for, or a knowledge of
our practical limitations. I personally think that the search will be the
biggest thing, and at least it'll provide a lot of practice for things
related and not that we'll need to know. One good start would be to summon
aspects of death and see just what's what as far as the afterlife goes,
anyway. At least, it would seem to me.
ausla...@hotmail.com
"Tom Schuler" <d...@teleport.com> wrote:
> ausla...@hotmail.com wrote in message <6vloed$ai9$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> >
> >will: almost all decisions reflect in some later limitation of free will,
the
> >only difference here is that it'll seem as though I'm being acted upon by an
> >outside force when I'm not (really).
>
> life. It is also possible at any time to abrogate that decision and do
> will but an exercise of it. Will cannot be restricted. How that will can
> manifest at any given moment may be limited by circumstance, but will finds a
> way, given sufficient time and energy.
I agree 100%. I'm just saying that if you decide to do something contrary
later, it becomes a choice in your mind, which is more important. Maybe it's
not everyone, but I know that I've occasionally stuck to a previous decision,
and felt good about myself, while also being a bit resentful. I felt like I
HAD to act a certain way because of my earlier choice. Of course, it was an
illusion, but that doesn't mean I didn't feel it, you know?
Tom Schuler
Rick wrote in message <3620D4...@earthlink.net>...
>Tom Schuler wrote:
>
>> Sexual activity tends to strengthen habitual interactions with one's
>> partner, not weaken them.
>
>That depends entirely on the state of mind at the time of intercource,
>which can be manipulated with enough effort.
Yeah. I'm not fond of aversion therapy, though.
Rick
> On Fri, 09 Oct 1998 11:22:55 -0700, Evil Ninja Renfield
> <r...@cisco.com> wrote:
> >Roel van Leeuwen wrote:
> >> You mean I haven't really got this scar on my leg from when I was 9??
> >What, you think scar tissue is immortal?
> > -Renfield
A scar may not be permanent, but a change in counsciousness can be. Even
if later changes, change what changed during an act such as ritual
scarification, it can be an irrevocable step in a particular direction,
and in that sense a permenant change. Whether or not there is a 'next
life' to be affected is inconsequential.
You seem to have an issue with this, Ren. Did you chicken out of a tatoo
or something?
--
Rick
Evil Ninja Renfield
>
> A scar may not be permanent, but a change in counsciousness can be. Even
> if later changes, change what changed during an act such as ritual
> scarification, it can be an irrevocable step in a particular direction,
> and in that sense a permenant change. Whether or not there is a 'next
> life' to be affected is inconsequential.
>
> You seem to have an issue with this, Ren. Did you chicken out of a tatoo
> or something?
Ooh! The nerve! ;P
I'm just picking your brain, Rick.
I have no tatoos. I have not made any pacts.
Mainly I am snubbing these ideas because I haven't the
concept of doing something to irrevocably change me.
There is no 'forever' for me; no thing eternal.
Things change one way, and on other days other things
change.
-Renfield
Erwin Hessle
Evil Ninja Renfield wrote in message <362109...@cisco.com>...
>There is no 'forever' for me; no thing eternal.
>Things change one way, and on other days other things
>change.
Would you say "drifter" was a word that describes you moderately well?
Erwin Hessle, 8=3
Tom Schuler
ausla...@hotmail.com wrote in message
<6vqq73$4ac$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>
>I agree 100%. I'm just saying that if you decide to do something contrary
>later, it becomes a choice in your mind, which is more important. Maybe
it's
>not everyone, but I know that I've occasionally stuck to a previous
decision,
>and felt good about myself, while also being a bit resentful. I felt like
I
>HAD to act a certain way because of my earlier choice. Of course, it was
an
>illusion, but that doesn't mean I didn't feel it, you know?
I know. One should be very careful what one promises, if any sense of
consistency seems desirable.
Rick
> Rick wrote:
> > You seem to have an issue with this, Ren. Did you chicken out of a tatoo
> > or something?
> Ooh! The nerve! ;P
I've got Usenet balls-of-steel.
> I'm just picking your brain, Rick.
Is that what's causing that itch? I thought it was dandruff.
> I have no tatoos. I have not made any pacts.
Personally, I've found pacts to be extremely powerful devices, often
playing themselves out in very unexpected ways. By way of a hint, be
careful with words like "freedom" unless you're ready to lose everything
you have, over and over again.
> Mainly I am snubbing these ideas because I haven't the
> concept of doing something to irrevocably change me.
> There is no 'forever' for me; no thing eternal.
> Things change one way, and on other days other things
> change.
In the long run, it doesn't matter, because you are not the same person
from one moment to the next anyway. Change *is* the thing eternal, from
what I can see. How we embrace or fight change defines our experience of
it.
You seem to be the go-with-the-flow type. Have you ever wondered what it
would be like to step off the cliff, to really be The Fool?
The Fool might have The Hanged Man tattooed on his chest, for example.
--
Rick
richard sprigg
> Personally, I've found pacts to be extremely powerful devices, often
> playing themselves out in very unexpected ways. By way of a hint, be
> careful with words like "freedom" unless you're ready to lose everything
This thought applies to all oaths.
There is,after all, a cover charge for anywhere worth going.
As to "freedom": the cover is a pittance. without it, what have you got?
>
> You seem to be the go-with-the-flow type.
This is a valid formula for some, as long as you truly do so.
Have you ever wondered what it
> would be like to step off the cliff, to really be The Fool?
heh. I was brought up to believe "Look before you leap".
I have found that "Look around after you land" has been much more
interesting. Wouldn't have it any other way.
>
> The Fool might have The Hanged Man tattooed on his chest, for example.
Ah, yes, but he sees only the caduceus.
sy.
sy.
<er...@cwcom.NO.SPAM.net> wrote:
>
>Evil Ninja Renfield wrote in message <362109...@cisco.com>...
>
>>There is no 'forever' for me; no thing eternal.
>>Things change one way, and on other days other things
>>change.
>
>
>Would you say "drifter" was a word that describes you moderately well?
Evil Tumbleweed Renfield...
sy
Cal...@my-dejanews.com
"Suzanne Simmons" <rhy...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >**It exists, it's called a soul bonding ritual
Where did you come across this ritual? I am interested in the details for
purely scholarly reasons and would like to know more.
May the Universe provide...
Calysta Atrahasis
http://www.esoterika.com
Tom Schuler
Cal...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message <700fad$k6p$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>In article <6vidd2$f...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>,
> "Suzanne Simmons" <rhy...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>> >**It exists, it's called a soul bonding ritual
>
>Where did you come across this ritual? I am interested in the details for
>purely scholarly reasons and would like to know more.
Lo, these many years ago, when I was involved briefly with Wicca, there were
three options to their marriage ceremony. The first, and by far the most
popular, was a temporary bond for a year and a day or "as long as love shall
last". It was the unlicensed common-law sort of bonding gone in for by
lovey-dovey roommates. The second was the standard "til death do you part" with
a state license and all the legal trimmings. The third was a "soul marriage",
to cover subsequent lives as well.
Check the liturgies of various Wiccan groups and I'm sure you can find a
ceremony somebody dreamt up for these.
Suzanne Simmons
marriage or handfasting.It is done for people who have been together AT
LEAST ten years. It is not undertaken lightly,and is done with both
partners' willing participation. I feel no need for such a ritual, though
my husband and I certainly are soul mates.
The original requester of the bond e-mailed me with more
details.Without spilling overmuch,I can say he has a feeling of fear and
insecurity about the Afterworld, and whether he will lose his beloved then.
I tried to assure him,and suggested some books.
I told him as I tell you, I was told by a teacher of mine that such a
ritual exists, but I didn't ask her for the actual ritual, because I prefer
not to screw around with something so entwined with my Fate. If it ain't
broke, don't fix it! And besides, what if one is wrong?And that's it? I
mean, Yeef!
BB,Rhyanon
Cal...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<700fad$k6p$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>In article <6vidd2$f...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>,
> "Suzanne Simmons" <rhy...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>> >**It exists, it's called a soul bonding ritual
>
>Where did you come across this ritual? I am interested in the details for
>purely scholarly reasons and would like to know more.
>
Tom Schuler
Suzanne Simmons wrote in message <70275f$t...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
>It's not an "astral super-glue", it just affirms a deeper bond than just
>marriage or handfasting.It is done for people who have been together AT
>LEAST ten years. It is not undertaken lightly,and is done with both
>partners' willing participation. I feel no need for such a ritual, though
>my husband and I certainly are soul mates.
Has this been confirmed by the Official Guardian of the Akashic Records and
sanctioned by the Supreme Being? I want to see a Certificate of Authenticity.
There are a lot of people around who are making false claims to be a matching
set of soul-mates. This drives the prices up for honest collectors.
William Wheeler
Tom Schuler wrote:
> Has this been confirmed by the Official Guardian of the Akashic Records and
> sanctioned by the Supreme Being? I want to see a Certificate of Authenticity.
> There are a lot of people around who are making false claims to be a matching
> set of soul-mates. This drives the prices up for honest collectors.
LOL
Evil Ninja Renfield
Gods. Remember that moron who posted for a spell to
get his "soul-mate" to not complain about the
music he listened to? If he was a cartoon
character, I'd belt him one in the mouth.
But then, people who post for spells are
usually deluded.
-Renfield
Grrr
<r...@cisco.com> wrote:
>But then, people who post for spells are
>usually deluded.
>
> -Renfield
Do you have a spell which would compel you to hate me?
Gnosta Verum Adoni Grrr
Tom Schuler
Grrr wrote in message <3652380d...@news.bigpond.com>...
>
>Do you have a spell which would compel you to hate me?
Compel? No. Incline? Yes.