Drell Master ad in Heavy Metal
Gnome d Plume
issue of *Heavy Metal*, " the adult illustrated fantasy magazine."
Inside the front cover is our full-page, full color ad for *Drell
Master* "an illustrated fantasy novel by Poke Runyon." The ad shows
four art cuts from the book, three of which are not shown at our web
site. This ad is quite frankly "for the boys." The byline reads:
"1940s Pulp Fiction Was Never Like This -- But It Should Have Been!"
******
Good Magick!
(Good T&A also!)
Gnome d Plume
www.maelstrompress.com
Josh Geller
Gnome d Plume <Gnome...@aol.com> wrote:
> Inside the front cover is our full-page, full color ad for *Drell
> Master* "an illustrated fantasy novel by Poke Runyon."
And this is what?
An ad for your ad?
Gnome d Plume
*******Well, old chum, I suppose you could call it that---but you
could also call it "a folk-art cultural revival public service
announcement." You see I am in the process of reviving the illustrated
novel (as an altruistic gesture, of course!) You may not realize that
before the Great Depression many adult novels (Cabell's *Jurgen* comes
to mind) were profusely illustrated. Great illustrators such as Sidney
Syme (Lord Dunsany's artist of choice) and Mahon Blaine (*Vaythec*)
were regularly featured by major publishers---then, when things got
tight after 1929, publishers cut costs and corners. They managed to
convince the reading public that only children's books were supposed
to have pictures. This spin-doctoring carried through WWII, but in the
1950s, the major houses decided to tip-toe back into illustrated
books--especially historical (my agent called them "hysterical")
novels. Unfortunately the old illustrators were gone and the new crop
couldn't measure up. By the early 1960s the effort had been abandoned.
Publishers were back to novels, and even their book jackets, that were
entirely non-representational in graphic design.
Now an interesting exception to this post Depression
anti-illustration trend, (and sell-job), were the pulp magazines.
Pulp adventure novels and novelettes (sci-fi and others) usually had
two or three very effective black and white line-art drawings along
with an action-oriented full color cover.
This is the sort of style and flair that *Drell Master*
evokes--both in its prose and, especially in its art. In this sense it
is unique and something of a folk-art and folk-literature revival
project. If I have "plumbed new depths" then perhaps those depths are
where our lost dream-images were consigned after the big publishers,
for entirely selfish purposes, decided to sell us on the idea that
"grown-ups" weren't supposed to have pictures in their books.
And as for Neo-Marxist self-righteous ire at the very
mention of anything on Use Net that might have a price tag on it, that
too is an evocation of things gone past. However, you'll find *Drell
Master's* anti-Market-Driven globalization message dear to your
anarchistic heart in spite of "the price," --- which, you will notice,
I have not stated. *******
Good Magick!
Gnome d Plume
www.maelstrompress.com
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Re O'Stat
Cool! Now Poke not only spams this group with ads for his stuff, but
spams us with ads about ads for his stuff!
Way to go, Poke!
Perhaps next you will do an ad for the magazine that has an ad for a
magazine that has an ad for a URL where you'll find information about an
ad in a magazine which you once used to blow your nose!
We can't wait.
Re
Gnome d Plume
********Oh gosh and golly-gee! Do you really think I could get folks
to actually work their way through a series of steps like that? Sort
of like a treasure hunt? Not really--but it would be a way to appease
the peevish few who think that any mention of anything that can
somewhere be "bought" is somehow the nadir of Use Net depravity.
*******
Gnome the Depraved
KeeCoyote
Gnome d Plume <Gnome...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3b58d9b5....@trialnews.peoplepc.com...
better illustrator :) Look at the large paperback edition of Roger Zelzany's
Madwand . This is illustration. Or if you want a illustration that evokes
the occult before 1940 try the panel . Mombi uses sorcery in Frank Baums'
The Land of Oz :)
>
Gnome d Plume
wrote:
*******Alright, hot shot, I'll play your little game. *The Land of Oz*
by L. Frank Baum was published in 1904 and illustrated by John R.
Neill. The illo you are referring to is *Mombi at her magical
incantations* on page 275. It is very well rendered in but definitely
in a cartoon mood, and very much pre-WW I in it's style and
composition. It has very little to do with 1940s pulp magazine
illustration style---also I doubt that you actually looked at the
cover art for *Drell Master* because you went to the wrong web site!
*Drell Master* is at www.maelstrompress.com not "Malestrom."
If you want to be an art critic you should at least get
your dates, styles, and references correct.******
Gnome d Plume
Re O'Stat
Oops! Sorry, Kee. Someone should have warned you. Gnome is both the
author AND artist. If you or anyone else dares to say he is anything
less than perfect or that there are other concepts and ideas in the
world, he will do 3 things:
1) Try to refute you
2) Try to make fun of you
3) Then just insult you as he flaps around like the fish on T.V.
Funhouse.
So far he is playing step one with you. He is trying to refute you by
ignoring the thrust of your comments and focusing on side issues like
the name of an image. Note that even though you didn't have the name
exact he was easily able to find it.
<Sigh> If he wasn't so silly he'd just be boring.
Re
catherine yronwode
>
> "KeeCoyote" <not@thisaddress> wrote:
>
> > I looked at the cover of your book at Malestorm. You definetly
> > need a better illustrator :)
>
> your dates, styles, and references correct.******
Gnome, with all due respect, i have been a collector of pulp fiction for
40 years, and a professional comic book art and script editor for 20
years, and ... i think the cover art is amateurish. It is not so much
reminiscent of 1940s pulp art as it is of 1980s fanzine art. The facial
anatomy and hair of the two major characters is stereotypyed and
simplified to the point of unattractiveness. Simple shadowing tricks,
like how to make boot leather look different than cloth leggings, have
not been employed, giving all surfaces an unrealistically uniform
texture. The colouring is very weak and skritchy-scratchy, not rich and
painterly (especially on the inside of the man's cloak) and it also
displays an unfortunate tendency toward what we in the business call
"jelly-bean syndrome" -- lots of unrelated images and unrelated colours
are just jumbled all over the page without a unifying scheme of
colour-harmony.
I would never have brought this up on my own (that is not my stye), but
you really dissed KeeCoyote for voicing his opinion, and that made me
curious enough to check out the art. Sorry if i have ruffled your
feathers -- but i calls 'em like i sees 'em, and i call this a "pretty
good rough layout by a semi-talented fan," not "cover art as i know it."
The writing is another matter, of course, and there i think you do
emulate the style of your choice with some accuracy and deftness.
Cordially,
cat yronwode
KeeCoyote
: And it is still not a very good cover illustration. Not a critic, just a
artist and stating my opinion .
KeeCoyote
catherine yronwode <c...@luckymojo.com> wrote in message
news:3B593A...@luckymojo.com...
Well Cat I am a amature artist but have took some art classes and a fan of
old science fiction and fantasy illustrations to. I do mostly "furry" art.
Your main point about Jelly-beanism is right. I also had to learn when to
stop adding stuff to a picture, Its one of the main difference tween
profesional and amatures like me. They know when to stop adding stuff to
their pictures. Unless your Sergio Arrogenes who can add pictures into his
pictures to the 12th degree.
Yes I know my spelling is atrocious, and so is my punctiation, and grammar.
Blazin' Tommy D.
Gnome d Plume <Gnome...@aol.com> wrote in article
<3b58bbb5....@trialnews.peoplepc.com>...
Gnome d Plume
wrote:
******All right---to both of you---I'll concede that the cover is not
great art or even great illustration. But it does ----using the motion
picture poster, mulage or "one-shot" technique---accomplish what it
sets out to do: it depicts several major elements of the story in
proper visual sequence, following the mark-of-zorro technique
(start upper left B.G. and move toward the foreground in a big "Z") we
have in far B.G. the Mother Drell destroying the Tower of Lightning,
with sailing airships and floating islands in the tableau, then on the
next level nearer and to the right, we see the villain, with his
flashing eye-implant and his scarred scalp: in full foreground we have
the hero and his lady in much the same pose as the original Star Wars
posters. Below that, still following Zorro's blade, we have "The
Blurb":
A Warrior Wizard Wakes the Ancient Mother of Monsters.
From a design point of view the cover is professionally composed for
what it is intended to do. As cat well knows the cover art on the old
Amazing Stories, Planet Stories, etc. was not much better--sometimes
worse. Most of the covers for Startling Stories and that group, were
rendered by Earl Bergy, the master of sensational pulp cover art,
who was quite facile,dramartic, and even painterly when it came to
rendering people--especially scantily glad girls---but his boy-girl
two shots usually dominated,and everything else was minor background.
He wasn't trying to tell a big story, just sell magazines to horney
fifteen year olds (not that there is anything wrong with that!) I
wanted to tell the story on the cover, so I used the movie poster
technique.The foreground figures were not rendered twice-size.
However, if you want to see me compete with Earl Bergy, then go to the
web site, www.maelstrompress.com , go down to the bottom of the
Prologue and look at the full color frontispiece of my beautiful,
buxom naked amazon riding on the back of a pterodactyl (zark). That
IMVVVVHO is as good as anything Earl Bergy ever did.
Now let me point something out: if I had used the superior
frontispiece "good girl" art on the cover (which I could have) the
criticism would probably have been worse and more condescending.
The real issue here is not the quality and style of fantasy art, it is
something else entirely.
----And BTW, Coyote, Zelazny's *Madwand* is out of print so we can't
compare its cover art. Isn't that convenient. *******
KeeCoyote
Want a scan of the cover ?
Gnome d Plume
wrote:
>
>Want a scan of the cover ?
>
*****That is unnecessary. All you have to do is hit the link
www.maelstrompress.com and you are on it in one more click.
However, when we set the web site up, we opted for reduced formats
on the color art so the whole site would load quicker. The cover looks
better on the actual book (trust me---but I know you won't). However,
now that you understand (hopefully) the design elements I was
employing, you might look at it in a new light. I do have a
bachelor's degree in art from Fla. State, and I did specialize in
illustration, and I later ran an art department for a major
corporation for nine years. I will suggest that you would probably
have made similar comments on the work of the late Hannes Bok
(I'm not trying to say that I'm as good as Hannes Bok was. I'm only
suggesting that you might not appreciate his work.) It is easy to
mistake style for lack of detail and distortion when you are starting
out. The Drell Master cover is highly stylized; Brand is nine heads
tall---that's "heroic" to the max. Do you know about the
"heads-to-height" ratio? Now notice the way he and his lady stand in
relation to the mountain and the other compositional elements. Do you
see a design pattern; a series of pyramids perhaps? Look carefully and
see how the entire design integrates with the "Z" principle that the
human eye employs when it "reads" anything. Now, as for color, the
repeats are all there and well integrated. The use of white space in
this case is especially daring and effective. Almost abstract. You
probably wouldn't have done that. Most beginning artists want to fill
up the whole image area but in a mulage,such as this one,the white
space makes it work--especially as a design. If I had rendered the
whole thing three-times-size it would have been better in some
details---but sometimes less, and simpler, is better overall.
Now I want you to go and take a long look at Lira riding the
zark, right after the Prologue. Let's have your sage opinion about
that one---and the also, while you're at it, what do you think of the
Prophecy page right before the Prologue? That's really pop-art so it
ought to be good for some digs as well.
And BTW, thanks for helping call attention to the book. Every
little bit helps.******
Good Magick!
(Good pop-art also!)
Gnome d Plume
KeeCoyote
a copy from the library on monday :)
Gnome d Plume
wrote:
>> up the whole image area but in a montage, such as this one,the white
>> space makes it work--especially as a design. If I had rendered the
>> whole thing three-times-size it would have been better in some
>> details---but sometimes less, and simpler, is better overall.
>> Now I want you to go and take a long look at Lira riding the
>> zark, right after the Prologue. Let's have your sage opinion about
>> that one---and the also, while you're at it, what do you think of the
>> Prophecy page right before the Prologue? That's really pop-art so it
>> ought to be good for some digs as well.
>> And BTW, thanks for helping call attention to the book. Every
>> little bit helps.******
>>
>> Good Magick!
>> (Good pop-art also!)
>>
>> Gnome d Plume
>> Meant a scan of Madwand :) If I can't find my copy on sunday can check out
>a copy from the library on monday :)
********Oh sure, and while you're at it, why not put up some Saturday
Evening Post covers by Norman Rockwell! Then I could post some J.
Allen St.John book jackets from old Tarzan books, and we could have an
art war; what you like vs. what I like. Wouldn't that be fun? But I
would rather see something of YOURS. Who knows "furry" might be better
than you think. I might even like it-----and I promise, even if I
don't like it, I won't make snotty remarks about it.*******
Gnome d Plume
>
>
Re O'Stat
Gnome...@aol.com (Gnome d Plume) wrote:
Well, Kee, I warned you.
First he angrily responds (he did that previously) then he mocks and
finally he insults.
You don't need a Tarot deck to predict what Poke will do.
Re
Gnome d Plume
******You're right! I'm predictable in this regard. All you have to do
in order to get a sarcastic response from me is to insult me or my
work. I do not subscribe to the ill-founded notion that flippant jibes
and irrelevant insults somehow constitute valid criticism. This is
your delusion, not mine. You haven't noticed that I answered cat's
critique--even though it was harsh--with an even and courteous
response, but Kee Coyote came on like a wise cracker, and made some
mistakes in the process. I didn't skin him that bad, just pointed out
his errors and suggested he do better next time.
And in this last exchange above, I offered him an opportunity
to show us some of his work--and I even promised (sincerely, BTW) to
refrain from making comments as depreciating as those he made about my
work. What could be fairer than that?
But I doubt he will respond with a sample of his art.
That is also predictable.******
Gnome the Implacable
Re O'Stat
Poke, you've probably seen land mines that are less sensitive than you
are.
You're more like the government in that you have to ask permission to
sue them. In your case, you treat people nicey-nice IF (and it is a
rarity) they critique the way you want.
In other words, you're a control freak.
Nothing wrong with that, but it may surprise people if they are not
aware of it.
Re
Blazin' Tommy D.
That's pretty cool really, congratulations
I know what a good feeling it is to see a nice statement about your work in
It's been so long for me, I'll be happy for others
Do you have a link to some of the artwork?
I'll check it out
BTD
Gnome d Plume <Gnome...@aol.com> wrote in article
<3b58d9b5....@trialnews.peoplepc.com>...
Gnome d Plume
Gnome d Plume
(snip)
******Well, perhaps some of what you say is true. Boorish people who
can't tell the difference between polite discourse and coarse insult
do tend to offend me. If somebody says: "Your stuff sucks and I seen
better on bathroom walls," I don't rush to assume that he/she is a
privileged member of an language-challenged and culturally challenged
minority group of some sort and entitled to a hundred point handicap.
This may surprise some new people around here, but not the old hands.
You are meeping, and that surprises nobody.*****
Gnome the Implacable
Blazin' Tommy D.
The art work in those was utterly fabulous. I could pipe dream on it for
hours.
The only artists I'm really familiar with on direct knowledge and perusal
are 60s guys notably Steve Ditko
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/7941/index.htm
particularly his Doctor Strange - a perfect complement to a hot upstate NY
summer day as it was today
with the breeze caressing the bed sheets and the sun lighting the pages
And of course Jack Kirby
http://www.kenpiercebooks.com/avengers.htm
both of the Stan Lee Marvel Comics days
Gnome d Plume <Gnome...@aol.com> wrote in article
<3b59c09f....@trialnews.peoplepc.com>...
> On Sat, 21 Jul 2001 07:12:57 -0700, "KeeCoyote" <not@thisaddress>
> wrote:
> >> Gnome, with all due respect, i have been a collector of pulp fiction
for
> >> 40 years, and a professional comic book art and script editor for 20
> >> years, and ... i think the cover art is amateurish. It is not so much
> >> reminiscent of 1940s pulp art as it is of 1980s fanzine art.
BTD: Yeah, it really doesn't have that look to it; but to me the cover
looks more like a kid's book almost like a coloring book. Tales of King
Arthur, something like that. If numb is targeting a young audience . . . ?
> ******All right---to both of you---I'll concede that the cover is not
> great art or even great illustration. But it does ----using the motion
> picture poster, mulage or "one-shot" technique---accomplish what it
> sets out to do: it depicts several major elements of the story in
> proper visual sequence,
> From a design point of view the cover is professionally composed for
> what it is intended to do. As cat well knows the cover art on the old
> Amazing Stories, Planet Stories, etc. was not much better--sometimes
> worse. Most of the covers for Startling Stories and that group, were
> rendered by Earl Bergy, the master of sensational pulp cover art,
> who was quite facile,dramartic, and even painterly when it came to
> rendering people--especially scantily glad girls---but his boy-girl
> two shots usually dominated,and everything else was minor background.
> He wasn't trying to tell a big story, just sell magazines to horney
> fifteen year olds (not that there is anything wrong with that!) I
> wanted to tell the story on the cover, so I used the movie poster
> technique.The foreground figures were not rendered twice-size.
> However, if you want to see me compete with Earl Bergy, then go to the
> web site, www.maelstrompress.com
BTD: "The Prophecy" illustration doesn't look bad. Kind of an "underground"
sort of look. Flash Gordon Spin-off 50s Sci_fi movies
http://www.kenpiercebooks.com/flash1.htm
, go down to the bottom of the
> Prologue and look at the full color frontispiece of my beautiful,
> buxom naked amazon riding on the back of a pterodactyl (zark).
BTD: No hard on, but nice colors. I'm trying to think of the guy's name
that used to do Creepy and Vampirilla.
http://www.gdarkness.com/monstermags/creepy1_10.html
http://www.hotad.com/monstermania/creepy/
I used to have the whole Creepy collection but my brother stored it in his
cellar and it was destroyed in a flood along with my Forrest J. Ackerman's
"Famous Monster's of Filmland" waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
That
> IMVVVVHO is as good as anything Earl Bergy ever did.
BTD: I don't think so
http://www.thecolors.com/women3/ddw3.html
http://www.thecolors.com/women3/index.html
> Now let me point something out: if I had used the superior
> frontispiece "good girl" art on the cover (which I could have) the
> criticism would probably have been worse and more condescending.
BTD: I used to buy Creepy for the cover art and of course because I love
that sort of thing. Depends on the audience you're trying to attract. I
wouldn't have picked it up when I was 14 because I judged comics by their
cover. I'm like one of the original Goths. Halloween was the only time I
liked going to school. So it depends on the kid. Maybe young girls?
> The real issue here is not the quality and style of fantasy art, it is
> something else entirely.
BTD: This is interesting stuff though. This is a good thread!
> ----And BTW, Coyote, Zelazny's *Madwand* is out of print so we can't
> compare its cover art. Isn't that convenient. *******
BTD: Is Malestrom your company?
Blazin' Tommy D.
Gnome d Plume
*****Correction on your correction (and my reference)
The artist's name was Earle K. Bergey. (See Lester del Rey's
*Fantastic Science Fiction Art 1926-1954* ).
....and no, "Malestrom" is not my company.******
Gnome d Plume
www.maelstrompress.com
Blazin' Tommy D.
I'm being polite
and doing friendly discourse
really
see no garbage mouth
nor references to precious bodily fluids:)
Check out the art links
Tanks for the inspiration
Gnome d Plume <Gnome...@aol.com> wrote in article
<3b5d1929....@trialnews.peoplepc.com>...
Blazin' Tommy D.
It was a premature . . . er . . . a
well, you know:)
Gnome d Plume <Gnome...@aol.com> wrote in article
<3b5d010e....@trialnews.peoplepc.com>...
Gnome d Plume
<td...@stny.rr.com> wrote:
>sorry my mistake
>I'm being polite
>and doing friendly discourse
>really
>see no garbage mouth
>nor references to precious bodily fluids:)
>Check out the art links
>Tanks for the inspiration
******And thanks for the useful critique. I suppose I have to face the
fact that my cover art is too iconographic and stylized for the genre
I'm evoking. However, the montage design is well planned and not a
"jelly bean" collage as cat suggested. The kids who do jelly bean
stuff don't know the difference between a montage and a collage.
......As for Earle Bergey, the *Salome* piece is IMO not one of his
best or even representative of his unique style. The "Bergey Girls" on
the covers of 1940s Thrilling Publications's mags were pink,
pneumatic, often with terrified expressions; but all the more
delicious for that! I'm sure he used models and worked large,
probably with an airbrush. I tend to work too small and never liked
using models or photos. Boris's stuff bores me. I like Frazetta but I
think J. Allen St.John was the all time master of barbaric fantasy
art.********
Gnome d Plume
Blazin' Tommy D.
But yeah that's who I was thinking of
Of the various links I like the following
1) Richard Hescox
2) Marcus Grey
3) Jasmine Chan
4) John Waterhouse
But above all
http://www.thecolors.com/subpin/ra3/ra11.html
This is my thing. THIS really gets me excited
This is where I'm at. This is beyond hard on. This is like tears of joy,
ecstasy. Seriously. Know what I mean. Click the image take you to his
several galleries of cover art. There's a local place called "Fat Cat
Books". I sold some comic there in the early 70s - a copy of "Planet" I
should have never parted with. You go in the place and wham hundreds and
hundreds of covers.
CI
Gnome d Plume <Gnome...@aol.com> wrote in article
<3b5d9f0c....@trialnews.peoplepc.com>...
> On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 07:02:52 GMT, "Blazin' Tommy D."
> <td...@stny.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >sorry my mistake
> >I'm being polite
> >and doing friendly discourse
> >really
> >see no garbage mouth
> >nor references to precious bodily fluids:)
> >Check out the art links
> >Tanks for the inspiration
>
> ******And thanks for the useful critique.
BTD: Glad to lend a thought. I scour the books for this sort of thing as a
dancer
I suppose I have to face the
> fact that my cover art is too iconographic and stylized for the genre
> I'm evoking.
BTD: ? I like "The Prophecy" Illustration
However, the montage design is well planned and not a
> "jelly bean" collage as cat suggested.
BTD: giggle, chuckle, you're almost as vain as I! And know more about the
terminology than I.
The kids who do jelly bean
> stuff don't know the difference between a montage and a collage.
> ......As for Earle Bergey, the *Salome* piece is IMO not one of his
> best or even representative of his unique style. The "Bergey Girls" on
> the covers of 1940s Thrilling Publications's mags were pink,
> pneumatic, often with terrified expressions;
BTD: This is the first I heard of this guy. I see he died in 1952.
but all the more
> delicious for that!
BTD: Absolutely. This was the BDSM bit for that day. My mother used to have
some old books like that. Women in bondage, &c. My brother and I were
collectors of sorts. Mostly comics also magazines. I have the 1st issue of
"Playboy" but it's missing the Marilyn centerfold.
I'm sure he used models and worked large,
> probably with an airbrush. I tend to work too small and never liked
> using models or photos.
BTD: You can use me sometime if you like. When I received my 1st
Scholarship I looked lke the Waite deck Page in Swords
Now I look like Nijinsky with much better proportion and height:)
(5' 10&1/2")
I bought all of this streaming gear and trying to get up the energy to set
it up. After I get some .jpegs I'll send one if you like.
Boris's
BTD: Boris?
stuff bores me. I like Frazetta
BTD: http://www2.intop.net/~tmcmahan/Stills/fraz01.jpg
this is interesting
http://www2.intop.net/~tmcmahan/Stills/stills.html
but I
> think J. Allen St.John was the all time master of barbaric fantasy
> art.********
BTD: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/8339/erb0000.html
A little too conventional for me. I might prefer Richard Hescox
http://www.thecolors.com/women4/xw4.html
(ass leg and feet fetish:)
http://www.thecolors.com/artists/richard_hescox.html
but I'm not that familiar with St. John. Obviously you've done your
research.
And I can see where you're coming from after discussing it a bit.
Blazin' Tommy D.
http://www.dorianart.com/