8 Pentacles (Wang) and Book T
nagasiva
"Rosifer" <vinc...@tpg.com.au> writes:
> That description comes from Book 'T' which
> Crowley reproduced in his magazine 'The Equinox'.
thanks.
> This is Robert Wang's idea of what the Eight
> of Pentagrams/Pentacles should look like;
> http://www.angelpaths.com/decks/goldendawn/pents/eightofpents.html
not as close to the description as Dowson.
nagasiva
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nagasiva
"Karipidu Marianna" <kari...@comcast.net>:
>"Rosifer" <vinc...@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
>> Karipidu Marianna wrote:
>> Crowley explains the arrangement in BoT;
>> "...The disks are arranged in the form of the
>> geomantic figure Populus.
that's
* *
* *
* *
* *
Populus -- Moon -- Cancer -- Aquarius -- Capricorn
http://www.conjurer.org/?id=geomantic
the same information is available in many occult texts
like Agrippa. the system is very old, 16-based.
> Along time ago I bought a little book and the title
> of that book is "Tarot Divination" Aleister Crowley.
> First Page: Tarot Divination
crowley's version of the GD material?
what that symbolism likely describes
is the Smith-Waite deck.
> So, where is the picture of that description?
> Where is the white Angelic Hand that grasps
> a branch of a rose tree...? I want to see it.
> Where is that picture?
in a Golden Dawn derived deck? hm, Smith-Waite?
>>> Did you see the picture of eight of pentacles
>>> Disks)?
Pentacles? or Disks? the Harris-Crowley has Disks.
>>> Why did Aleister say that no rosebuds even, but
>>> only leaves, touch the four uppermost disks?
>>> Do the four lowermost Pentacles and the four
>>> uppermost disks look different?
>>
>> I think you may be getting your descriptions
>> mixed up. The one you pasted is from Book 'T',
>> not the BoT.
particularly Mathers', yes.
> A WHITE Radiating Angelic Hand, issuing from a
> cloud, and grasping a branch of a rose tree,
> with four white roses thereon, which touch only
> the four lowermost Pentacles. No rosebuds even,
> but only leaves, touch the four uppermost disks.
> All the Pentacles are similar to that of the Ace,
> but without the Maltese cross and wings. They are
> arranged like the geomantic figure Populus. Above
> and below them are the symbols Sun and Virgo for
> the Decan.
about the earlier of you said:
>> I think you may be getting your descriptions mixed up.
>> The one you pasted is from Book 'T', not the [The
>> Book of Thoth].
not a description of the Harris-Crowley deck 8DISKS
> So, where is the picture of that description?
> Where is the white Angelic Hand that grasps
> a branch of a rose tree...? I want to see it.
> Where is that picture?
I'll look around for you.
the Plebeian Deck has a Smith-Waite there,
which has no geometric formation of the pips.
an elongaged queue, its focus of concentration
is on the workman constructing the pentacles
and artifice of architecture.
Robert Wang's "The Golden Dawn Tarot" has the
exact text from Book T as previously quoted.
you're looking for a Golden Dawn deck.
a Cicero deck? hm, Case? many of the great
occultists in book and text left off at Trumps.
now i do have one deck you'll want to see.
I just opened it as a last resort after
searching for the Cicero 8 Pentacles. it is
one i obtained at a local antique dealer,
and is called "The Hermetic Tarot", featuring
Godfrey Dowson's reconstruction of the
Esoteric Workings of the Secret Order of the
Golden Dawn. it features such disk-flowers
and features the hand from the clouds. this
deck also features the Ace of similar design
with a Maltese cross with wings resting atop
the Disk-Wheel.
here's the 8 that you asked for:
http://www.bluecatsden.com/HEightPentacles.jpg
(accessed 10-3-06)
and here's the Ace:
http://www.bluecatsden.com/HAcePentacles.jpg
I didn't see anyone type in the rest of the
Book T entry. here's text from Regardie/Llewellyn:
Over-careful in small things at the
expense of the great. <160> "Penny-
wise and pound-foolish." Gain of
ready money in small sums. Mean,
avariciousness. Industrious,
cultivation of land, hoarding,
lacking in enterprise.
Hod of Heh. (Skill, prudence,
cunning.) There rule those mighty
angels Akaiah and Kehethel.
*Venus in Virgo, 10' to 20'.
XXV. Lord of Material Gain*
Regardie, The Golden Dawn, 553-554,
1987, llewellyn. as found w/ pg number.
nagasiva
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nagasiva
Book T in Crowley's booklet:
>>> A WHITE Radiating Angelic Hand, issuing from a
>>> cloud, and grasping a branch of a rose tree,
>>> with four white roses thereon, which touch
>>> only the four lowermost Pentacles. No rosebuds
>>> even, but only leaves, touch the four uppermost
>>> disks. All the Pentacles are similar to that
>>> of the Ace, but without the Maltese cross and
>>> wings. They are arranged like the geomantic
>>> figure Populus. Above and below them are the
>>> symbols Sun and Virgo for the Decan.
>>> So, where is the picture of that description?
>>> Where is the white Angelic Hand that grasps
>>> a branch of a rose tree...? I want to see it.
>>> Where is that picture?
Wang looks more like a tree. Dowson's flowers do
not convince me of a rose *tree* at all, and his
LWB says it's a rose *bush* (US Games text?), so
even he has some problems. they solve the issue of
"no buds touching the uppermost disks' in different
ways, with Dowson's rose bush only coming up to the
height of those lower four, while Wang/Regardie has
the disks extending off of stalks terminating at a
disk each, the lower four the only ones with buds.
strange that Wang/Regardie chose red roses. the
Dowson LWB is almost exactly from Book T, even
specifying that the roses are white on a
black and white card:
_EIGHT OF PENTACLE._ Lord of Prudence.
A hand at the bottom of the card barely
touches the stem of a rose bush while
four white roses touch only the lowermost
pentacles. No rose buds are seen. All the
pentacles are very intricate, signifying
intelligence. The alternating black and
white indicates the negative and positive
sides of prudence. A large sun radiates
in the center of the uppermost pentacles.
Above and below are the symbols for the
Sun and Virgo. Sun in Virgo, 1'-10'.
Angels Akaiah and Kehethel. Overly
careful in small things at the expense of
the great. Penny-wise and pound-foolish.
Gain of ready money in small sums.
Apprenticeship. _Ill-dignified:_ Meanness.
Avarice. Industrious. Hoarding. Lacking
in enterprise.
-----------------------------------------
Hermetic Tarot 'Instructions'
by Godfrey Dowson and Stuart Kaplan;
edited by James Wasserman, US Games,
1980; pp. 44-45.
>> That description comes from Book 'T' which Crowley reproduced in his
>> magazine 'The Equinox'.
"Karipidu Marianna" <kari...@comcast.net>:
> Yeah, yeah, but Crowley is talking about white
> roses. He doesn't say anything about red roses.
Golden Dawn Mathers maybe talking about it, yes.
>> This is Robert Wang's idea of what the Eight of
>> Pentagrams/Pentacles should look like;
>> http://www.angelpaths.com/decks/goldendawn/pents/eightofpents.html
roses will bend over and re-seed themselves like
strawberries or blackberries. their formal or
structural number is 5, making them suitable
for pentacles.
optional formal structures for 8:
* *
* *
* *
* *
as said, Populus
may be rotated to
produce 2 rows of 4
its variation'd be
the squares changed
to crosses in series
*
* *
*
*
* *
*
which brings to mind
not only the number 8
but also 2 cubes or
squares balanced one
atop the other or a
bubble-blowing wand. :)
-----------------
* * *
* *
* * *
this relates also
to the monarch's
taxation portion
of farmland
-----------------
* *
*
* *
*
* *
harmonics with the
5-spot interlocking
and this might also
be turned upon its
side giving 3-2-3
---------------------
*
*
* * * *
*
*
nice disk of disks
implying quadratic
equal-armed cross
-----------------
alternatively one
might suppose that
they should proceed
based more on cosmic
principles of
manifestation
* * * * * Five Elements
* * Yin/Yang
* T'ai Chi
Ground of Being
this forming a tree
which is mappable to
the Plebeian Tree of Life:
http://www.luckymojo.com/avidyana/graphics/tarotreektys.gif
Pentacles/Diamonds/Disks/Coins/Wheels (2/4/8)
Earth (4/8)
Uranus (8)
Ba Gua! (8)
nagasiva
Karipidu Marianna
"nagasiva" <yronwode.c...@a.mail.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:452239c3$0$34578$742e...@news.sonic.net...
Yeah, I saw the red roses.
I like that.
Karipidu Marianna
"nagasiva" <yronwode.c...@b.mail.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:45222e13$0$34494$742e...@news.sonic.net...
Okay...
> cunning.)
Gee, that's about Corey (Hieronymous 707) :-)
There rule those mighty
> angels Akaiah and Kehethel.
Nagasivas (let me call you Nagasivas), who are
they? Do you know something about Akaiah and
Kehethel?
Where is Ilan? Can he tell us something about
them? What do those Hebrew names mean?
How are those names pronounced? For example,
Kehethel-is the name Kehethel pronounced
without the first h? I.e. Keethel...
catherine yronwode
Occult ascii art is one of your special talents. I like it.
cat yronwode