Evocation and Dark-Mirror Scrying (var)
catherine yronwode
This is an edited version of the compiled usenet posts made
in alt.magick during August 2001 concerning the source of a
specific dark-mirror evocation method described in Chapter
Nine of Donald Michael Kraig's book "Modern Magick."
David Cantu (dc...@houston.rr.com):
Kraig stole portions of the book ["Modern Magick,"
specifically Chapter Nine] from one Carol (Poke, Gnome)
Runyon's work [...] Poke says a student gave Kraig the
skrying material for his book, and that Poke was the
inventor of the method and went un-credited.
nagasiva (naga...@yronwode.com):
please provide some relevant quotations from each and their
copyright dating in support of this claim. I haven't heard
this charge yet and what I saw in Kraig's "Modern Magick"
seemed rather conventional Thelemic/Golden Dawn such that I
wonder what was "stolen".
David Cantu (dc...@houston.rr.com):
Poke had nothing published at the time [of Kraig's
publication of "Modern Magick" in 1989] so there is no
copyright to point to, and while that is not plagiarism,
that was not what I claimed, Naga, only that he stole from
Poke's work.
catherine yronwode (c...@luckymojo.com):
David Cantu's claim that Poke had "nothing published" is not
exactly accurate -- for although Poke HIMSELF had not yet
published the material, below we find that he supplies THREE
published references predating Kraig's book --
* the 1980 Robert S. Ellwood book, reprinted in 1988;
* the 1972 Hans Holzer book, reprinted in 1977 and 1978;
* the 1974 Tom Snyder Show video, re-broadcast in 1975
-- EACH OF WHICH clearly identified Carroll "Poke" Runyon
and the O.T.A. as the source and originator of one particular
form of dark-mirror scrying.
Furthermore, Runyon states that he alone originated that
specific dark-mirror method, in 1969. This bears examining:
Nelson White, whom Donald Michael Kraig sourced as the
originator of the method, was said by Hans Holzer, in
1972, to have been Runyon's assistant. In fact, Holzer
specifically makes it clear that he met both White and
Runyon and that "all of the artistic work and theories ...
are the brainchild of ...Frater Aleyin (Carroll "Poke"
Runyon)." Holzer saw the operation performed by Runyon and
his wife Jeanette, not by White, who merely "aided and
abetted." (See below.)
This independent documentation of the respective roles of
Runyon and White, given by Holzer in 1972 -- seven years
before White published his one-paragraph account of the
method -- makes it untenable for Kraig to *persist* in
stating that White was the originator of the material.
In my opinion, based on a reading of the documentation,
Kraig may have made a simple error of ascription when he
first published "Modern Magick" in 1989, but when called to
account, as a responsible scholar, he should have credited
Runyon in subsequent reprintings of his book.
As i understand it, what is at issue is not plagiarism per
se, but rather the theft of intellectual property and/or
repeated failure to credit a colleague in one's field -- and
Runyon's charge is not only aimed at Donald Michael Kraig,
but at Nelson White, from whom Kraig claims to have received
the material.
White's personal animosity toward Runyon at the time he
published "Secret Magick Revealed" provides sufficent
explanation for his behaviour -- but Kriag's continuing
refusal to credit Runyon, despite the evidence, is
surprising, as Kraig was never personally involved in O.T.A.
group dynamics, and he is also demonstrably reasonable and
fair about giving credit to other individuals (such as Dion
Fortune) whose writings he interpreted in "Modern Magick."
Poke Runyon (Gnome...@aol.com):
Just to set the record straight on this: I've never accused
Don Kraig of plagiarism. He came close but not over the
line. What happened was this: one of my students [Nelson
White] had a falling out with me -- mostly instigated by his
wife -- and, after leaving the O.T.A., he circulated a
Xerox, Acco binder "book" in which he briefly explained the
facial reflection/distortion method of Goetia evocation I
had developed back in 1969. He admitted that he was
"Revealing" someone else's "Secret Magick." [The book was
"Secret Magick Revealed" by Nelson White and his wife.] This
was a marginal, underground publication and the method
itself was only presented in one paragraph. I decided to
ignore it. Kraig, however, praised it, calling the authors
[the Whites] "two excellent occultists," and cited it as his
major source for Chapter Nine in *Modern Magick,* He then
came as close as he dared to showing exactly how the O.T.A.
method was done.
Just a few months before Kraig's book hit the stands, Carl
Weschecke [the publisher of Llewellyn books] was anxious to
introduce me to Don Kraig at the ABA convention in Los
Angeles. He wanted "To get us together." Kraig was also
ingratiating. He had heard I was working on the G.D. [Golden
Dawn] cyphers and he wanted to give me a copy of McGee's
pamphlet version in exchange for a set of our 7th Ray
journals. I agreed.
A month or so later, his letter arrived with the McGee
pamphlet and a money order for $15.00. I shelved it until I
could get a set of Rays ready for him (some had to be
re-copied). In less than a week his book was out and I had
my first look at it.
I must admit I was furious. I'd been ripped off and there
was nothing I could do about it. Weschecke had known very
well that I would be furious, and so had Kraig. The ABA
courtship was a slimy move by both of them. I shoved Kraig's
letter with the money order into a cubby hole and tried
very hard to put the whole rotten business out of my mind.
Seven years later, at Pat Zalewiski's urging, I got back to
work on the G.D. cyphers. I used the McGee pamphlet (one of
several versions of the cyphers) as one of my cross
references (It was available in two copyrighted re-prints),
but I still gave Don Kraig thanks in the acknowledgements to
my book for having sent me a copy.
Carl Wescheke wrote that he liked my book and we signed a
contract. Everything seemed to be going well with the
project at Llewellyn until Don Kraig circulated a letter to
the whole staff accusing me of "stealing his work," (his
exact words!) without explaining himself further. In other
words, he accused me of plagiarism! I sent a five page
letter to Llewellyn detailing the background of the
situation and asking for an apology.
Kraig tried to justify his accusation by claiming that he
had had to "work" to "earn the money" to buy the pamphlet
from McGee, and therefore I had "stolen his work" (I have
this incredible statement over his signature!) -- and of
course there was the $15.00 money (which had grown to $25.00
in his mind) that I had also "stolen". This didn't work very
well either because I'd never cashed it and had managed to
find the original buried in my desk.
The upshot of all this was that Llewellyn dragged their feet
on my book for a year until Darcy Kuntz's version of the
cyphers came out and then used that as an excuse to break
their contract. Of course I had grounds for a lawsuit
against Kraig and Llewellyn but suing authors and their
publishers is not a wise thing to do if you are a writer
yourself.
So, in my opinion Mr. Kraig is not a very honorable or even
an honest gentleman, but I can't call him a plagiarist --
even though he certainly called me one.
catherine yronwode (c...@luckymojo.com):
Ironically, Poke would probably have given permission for
the use of the material to Kraig, as he previously had given
it to three others, had only he been properly CREDITED by
Kriag as he was by the others.
Poke Runyon (Gnome...@aol.com):
You're absolutely right. I would have been more than happy
to cooperate. And I strongly suspect that Carl Weschecke
suggested that to Kraig.
David Cantu (dc...@houston.rr.com):
Perhaps Kraig was unaware at the time, but I don't know that
he has given the credit [since].
Poke Runyon (Gnome...@aol.com):
No. He has never apologized to me or acknowledged my
contribution to Dark Mirror evocation methodology.
nagasiva (naga...@yronwode.com):
it sounds like Runyon is asserting that Kraig knowingly
stole the ideas and then rejected Runyon's explanation as
false in a fit of jealousy or in order to protect his own
publishing interests with Llewellyn, adding fictional
elements to his account of the situation and making
impossible Runyon's publishing through Llewellyn.
Poke Runyon (Gnome...@aol.com):
That's the gist of it.
David Cantu (dc...@houston.rr.com):
Or perhaps Poke made this all up, in all honesty, how am I
to know.
nagasiva (naga...@yronwode.com):
well you're the one repeating the story. I'd like it if you
looked more deeply and became convinced of the matter one
way or another if you're going to be promoting one side of
it in the newsgroup. I enjoy the critical approach we bring
to alt.magick and prefer not to leave one-sided contentions
(about the value of a particular book, for example, or the
way a particular part of occult (even occult publishing)
history actually took place) go unaddressed by a fair-minded
appraisal from someone unbiased due to their proximity to
the events or to those who bring the matter to us.
Poke Runyon (Gnome...@aol.com):
I don't make things up. Everything I posted is documented in
correspondence between myself, Kraig and Llewellyn; it's
true, and even understated. It's quite a large file. Kraig,
a lifetime resident of Los Angeles, has tried to claim that
he didn't really know about the O.T.A. and our mirror
method, but Nelson White's book made it obvious that the
concept and method was an "Initiatory Secret" White was
"Revealing." How Kraig, a keen student of magick, could
totally miss the following documentation is frankly
ludicrous:
From:
Mysticism and Religion
by Robert S. Ellwood, Jr., Ph.D.
Prentice-Hall, 1980
Reprinted in:
Religious and Spiritual Groups
in Modern America, 2nd Edition
by Robert S. Ellwood, Jr. & Harry B. Partin
Prentice-Hall , 1988
"On May 6, 1977, I attended an evocation of Astarte, the
ancient Canaanite goddess of love, performed by the Ordo Templi
Astartes. The rite exemplified how the intensive ritual work in a
close-knit group can arouse psychic energy leading to strong
ecstatic or religious experience.
"The principal parts in the rite were those of the
Receiver and Operator. The Receiver (a woman since the deity was
female), stood before the mirror with a candle in each hand. In
her it was believed that the goddess would manifest her
personality and power. Also a glimpse might be caught of the
passing glory in the mirror.
"The Operator or Magus stood within the circle facing the
Receiver. His function, supported by the concentrated energies of
the entire group, was by the force of his will and magical words
to summon up Astarte into the woman's body and the mirror. Thus,
he repeated over and over an invocation of Astarte in a chanting
tone, his voice full of concentrated power. The emphasis was on
his command to the ancient goddess in the name of Elohim (God).
"Breaking the mood, he quietly asked the Receiver if
Astarte was now here. She said in a low voice, "One more time."
The Magus called out the invocation once more. The Receiver
shook; the candles moved, making dim patterns in the mirror. Then
suddenly the Receiver laughed, a lilting, sexual, musical laugh
quite different from the woman's ordinary tone. At this point I
myself felt a surge of tremendous tingling excitement..."
(Note: The Magus was Carroll "Poke" Runyon; the Receiver was
Jeanette Runyon. Ellwood's book was published in 1980, one
year following Nelson's publication of "Secret Magick
Revelaed," but EIGHT years before Kraig's, and it dated the
operation previous to Nelson's publication. That is the most
important point. Ellwood's and Holzer's books were a great
deal more important and well known than Nelson's. Kraig's
ignorance of them is remarkable.)
From:
The New Pagans
by Hans Holzer
Doubleday, 1972
Reprinted in:
Pagans and Witches
by Hans Holzer
Manor Books, NY, 1978
In Search of Magic and Witchcraft
by Alan Landsburg
Bantam Books, 1977
"All of the artistic work and theories behind this brotherhood
(The OTA) are the brainchild of an extremely talented young man
by the occult name of Frater Aleyin (Carroll "Poke" Runyon). He
is aided and abetted by another young man named Frater Khedemel
(Nelson H. White), a part time teacher and peace officer..."
"...On February 4, 1971, I was to find out for myself what
exactly the O.T.A. kind of magic was like. The boys picked me up
at my hotel, and as early as 7 p.m. we arrived at the temple in
Pasadena. This gave me ample time to look around and inspect the
premises."
"...In an adjoining room , which is somewhat larger than the
first one, the inner temple had been established. Painted in
black it is illuminated in stage lights in various colors that
give it an almost psychedelic effect. In the center there is a
circle consisting of a slightly raised narrow wooden platform.
Further back outside the circle there is a gong, and facing
forward just outside the circle, a large mirror on a stand. When
I first inspected the temple that mirror was covered, since it
played a major part in the ritual that was to follow shortly."
"...I was to "scrye" in the great mirror -- to do some crystal
gazing in the hope that Baal might appear to me ... The Master
thrust two long candle sticks into my hands and motioned me to
hold them up so that I could see the mirror more clearly. What I
saw was merely my face, but in time I might conceivably see
someone lurking behind me."
"...As I stood there staring into the half darkened mirror I
thought I felt some presence hovering over my shoulder. I did not
see the clearly defined face of King Baal next to me in the glass
but I felt something.
(Note: this account was first published in 1972, seven years
before the publication of SECRET MAGICK REVEALED.)
And in addition to this we demonstrated the technique
(Mirror on the upraised Triangle with the receiver holding
the evocation candles) on the Tom Snyder Show, NBC network
television, in October 1974, and again (re-run) on Halloween
the following year. If anyone doubts this, we have plenty of
VHS copies of the old Tom Synder Show that will totally
confirm it. If Kraig didn't know where the Dark Mirror
method came from by the early 1980s he must have been the
most out-of-touch magician in the whole Western World!
I think it is important to note that Nelson White and I have
buried the hatchet and have been friends for several years
now. Nelson even gave *The Magick of Solomon* and *The Book
of Solomon's Magick* favorable reviews. Dredging up this
business does tend to embarrass Nelson and I want him to
know that I did not instigate this present inquiry.
All that would be necessary for Mr. Kraig to do in order to
reconcile this issue -- even after all this time -- would be
to re-write his Chapter Nine for the next reprint of *Modern
Magick*, and give credit where credit is due. This would
satisfy me, and make him look better in the eyes of his
readership.
nagasiva (naga...@yronwode.com):
if it is true what you are saying, then I'd like Kraig to be
held accountable and provided with the reputation which he
actually *deserves* rather than merely that provided him by
his fans and enemies. I have sent a copy of this post to Mr.
Kraig for comment. here is his response to the material I
presented him and the questions that I asked regarding the
mirror-scrying technique he described in Chapter 9 of
"Modern Magick":
Donald Michael Kraig (dmk...@mediaone.net):
"Modern Magick" was the result of ten years of teaching
classes which followed a decade of my own private work. In
the section on evocation I fully describe how I came to a
conclusion about the way evocation works and I clearly and
explicitly name the sources I used. I will not get into an
argument over this. Instead, I would encourage people to
find a system that works for them and use it.
EOF
David Cantu
You have juxtaposed me into conversations I never had based on what started
as an innocent statement about matters that seemed well known around here.
In doing this you have also instigated a possible rebellion among the ranks
of top "Hermetic" Magicians in the public eye, a rebellion that could even
lead to the use of Low magick. Hahahahahaha!
Hey, what can I say, If you guys did this intentionally, then I bow to you,
your ability to manipulate mind space is considerable and I stand back with
a smile on my face at the chaos I have wrought. If yoooz guys didn't do it
on purpose, then what puppets we all are; and, I then bow to the great
magician that juggles us as toys of its intent. But then, you'all don't buy
into the "Only Thing That Is" view, so like I said, what can I say.
Either way, its all good.
What flapping wings do I hear out in the hallway?
Love,
David
"catherine yronwode" <c...@luckymojo.com> wrote in message
news:3B76F6...@luckymojo.com...
Gnome d Plume
wrote:
>Ok guys, this was fun.
>You have juxtaposed me into conversations I never had based on what started
>as an innocent statement about matters that seemed well known around here.
>In doing this you have also instigated a possible rebellion among the ranks
>of top "Hermetic" Magicians in the public eye, a rebellion that could even
>lead to the use of Low magick. Hahahahahaha!
>
>Hey, what can I say, If you guys did this intentionally, then I bow to you,
>your ability to manipulate mind space is considerable and I stand back with
>a smile on my face at the chaos I have wrought. If yoooz guys didn't do it
>on purpose, then what puppets we all are; and, I then bow to the great
>magician that juggles us as toys of its intent. But then, you'all don't buy
>into the "Only Thing That Is" view, so like I said, what can I say.
>
>Either way, its all good.
>What flapping wings do I hear out in the hallway?
>
>Love,
>David
>
*******David:
I can relate to what you are saying. I didn't want to get this going
again, and I don't think you did either. Nelson and I made up and got
beyond it years ago (I hope?). Kraig, in my opinion, will never be
able to own up to it (see his "statement") but then Kraig is a little
person, and little people find such admissions and rectifications
virtually impossible. This doesn't bother me too much anymore,
although I remain steadfast in my demand that Kraig apologize and
rectify. Nelson had a legitimate beef with me: I pumped him full of
visions of success, and then unilaterally decided that I wasn't cut
out to be an occult marketeer, got married and turned the O.T.A.-----
that he had devoted three years of his life to helping develop------
into a magical wicca coven (in the profit-making sense). Kraig has no
such excuse. At this point the truth my Dark Mirror contribution is
such general knowledge that his refusal to admit it poses no threat to
me or my work.
I will cite two current examples:
(1) From Lon Milo DuQuette's *My Life With The Spirits*
1999 --- "Nathan Sanders was an O.T.O. Brother and the
most experienced Goetic magician I had ever met. He was
a former student of Carroll (Poke) Runyon, the legendary
master of the art of evocation. (footnote: See The Book
of Solomon's Magick......Runyon rediscovered the key
secret of conjuring a spirit to visible appearance in
black mirror. This facial distortion technique had been
lost in the middle ages, leaving half a millennium of
magicians struggling to see spirits in the incense
smoke rising from an empty triangle.----page 119
(2) From David Griffin's *The Ritual Magic Manual* 1999 ---
"In recent decades however, research has suggested that
the smoke method is but a blind, or "smoke-screen" for
the actual procedure, which is to place a mirror inside
the Triangle of Art. For the latter method arrange the
Triangle vertically so the magician can easily see his
or her reflection therein. Although the adept should
experiment with both methods, research reveals the
latter to be more effective. There is a distinct
advantage in using the mirror in the Triangle instead
of smoke, since the entity appears together with the
reflection of the seer, thus facilitating the projection
psychic contents into the Triangle. (Footnote: This
method was apparently rediscovered by Poke Runyon
of the Ordo Templi Astarte(s). ---page 551.
Now maybe this is over-kill, but at least it does---or should---put
the cap on it. Now to CHANGE THE SUBJECT (what a concept!)
How did you like *Drell Master* ? ********
Good Magick!
Gnome d Plume
http://members.aol.com/CHSOTA/welcome.html
catherine yronwode
>
> Ok guys, this was fun.
Glad you liked it!
> You have juxtaposed me into conversations I never had based on what
> started as an innocent statement about matters that seemed well
> known around here.
Ah, the famous Juxtaposition Magick!!! Actually, this kind of compiled
archive eventually takes the form of a colloquium extended in time and
space. It can form a valuable ref file, and, in this case, i dare to
think it may even lead to a resolution of tension between two
should-be-colleagues.
> In doing this you have also instigated a possible
> rebellion among the ranks of top "Hermetic" Magicians in the public
> eye, a rebellion that could even lead to the use of Low magick.
> Hahahahahaha!
Oh, i doubt that would ever occur. But, for the record, when it comes to
magic, i play it as it lays -- high, low, on the fair, or in the rough.
> Hey, what can I say, If you guys did this intentionally, then I bow
> to you, your ability to manipulate mind space is considerable and I
> stand back with a smile on my face at the chaos I have wrought.
Thanks for the compliment. I take my role as participant-observer -- and
editor -- seriously. But the operation is not without repercussions upon
the operatpor: compiling and editing this colloquium has kept both of us
late hours for several days and has gotten us scrabbling through the
library for historical references, so we are gaining knowledge from this
exchange as well.
> If yoooz guys didn't do it on purpose, then what puppets we all are;
> and, I then bow to the great magician that juggles us as toys of its
> intent. But then, you'all don't buy into the "Only Thing That Is"
> view, so like I said, what can I say.
Our parts has been intentional -- but the intention is different than
what you assumed. I personally have no wish to cause high-born Hermetic
mages to play at hoi-polloi spell-casting. My intention all along has
been to take upon myself (as siva does) the role of a neutral mediator
and to carry clear, non-agressive, non-threatening messages back and
forth between two parties until common ground is seen beneath their feet
(in the form of a beautiful mosaic pavement, perhaps?) and peace breaks
out all over the world.
> Either way, its all good.
> What flapping wings do I hear out in the hallway?
Those are the Mexican free-tail bats. Cute little puppies, aren;t they?
> Love,
> David
Love is all you need,
cat yronwode
Freemasonry for Women ------- http://www.luckymojo.com/comasonry.html
nobodybutme
> (1) From Lon Milo DuQuette's *My Life With The Spirits*
> 1999 --- "Nathan Sanders was an O.T.O. Brother and the
> most experienced Goetic magician I had ever met. He was
>
> a former student of Carroll (Poke) Runyon, the legendary
> master of the art of evocation. (footnote: See The Book
> of Solomon's Magick......Runyon rediscovered the key
> secret of conjuring a spirit to visible appearance in
> black mirror. This facial distortion technique had been
> lost in the middle ages, leaving half a millennium of
> magicians struggling to see spirits in the incense
> smoke rising from an empty triangle.----page 119
and where on earth is my mirror (bought one from the states and it still
hasnt arrived )
I can also highly recommend "The Queens Conjurer", its a biography of John
Dee
> (2) From David Griffin's *The Ritual Magic Manual* 1999 ---
> "In recent decades however, research has suggested that
> the smoke method is but a blind, or "smoke-screen" for
> the actual procedure, which is to place a mirror inside
> the Triangle of Art. For the latter method arrange the
> Triangle vertically so the magician can easily see his
> or her reflection therein. Although the adept should
> experiment with both methods, research reveals the
> latter to be more effective. There is a distinct
> advantage in using the mirror in the Triangle instead
> of smoke, since the entity appears together with the
> reflection of the seer, thus facilitating the projection
So is this book any good ?
-shad
Gnome d Plume
<idonth...@net.org> wrote:
>> I will cite two current examples:
>> (1) From Lon Milo DuQuette's *My Life With The Spirits*
>> 1999 --- "Nathan Sanders was an O.T.O. Brother and the
>> most experienced Goetic magician I had ever met. He was
>> a former student of Carroll (Poke) Runyon, the legendary
>> master of the art of evocation. (footnote: See The Book
>> of Solomon's Magick......Runyon rediscovered the key
>> secret of conjuring a spirit to visible appearance in
>> black mirror. This facial distortion technique had been
>> lost in the middle ages, leaving half a millennium of
>> magicians struggling to see spirits in the incense
>> smoke rising from an empty triangle.----page 119
>OMG I lovely his book, does he ever post to this newsgroup ?
>and where on earth is my mirror (bought one from the states and it still
>hasnt arrived )
********Who did you buy it from? We don't sell them.*******
>
>I can also highly recommend "The Queens Conjurer", its a biography of John
>Dee
>
>> (2) From David Griffin's *The Ritual Magic Manual* 1999 ---
>> "In recent decades however, research has suggested that
>> the smoke method is but a blind, or "smoke-screen" for
>> the actual procedure, which is to place a mirror inside
>> the Triangle of Art. For the latter method arrange the
>> Triangle vertically so the magician can easily see his
>> or her reflection therein. Although the adept should
>> experiment with both methods, research reveals the
>> latter to be more effective. There is a distinct
>> advantage in using the mirror in the Triangle instead
>> of smoke, since the entity appears together with the
>> reflection of the seer, thus facilitating the projection
>
>So is this book any good ?
>
>-shad
********In some ways yes. Pat Zalewski reviewed it here and in The
Seventh Ray. It is very detailed and specific; a gourmet cook book of
fairly advanced Golden Dawn magick. The only criticism that might be
laid against it is that it is too long (666 pages!) Many of the
operations could have been shortened down to specific insertions into
a general template. Westcott did this with his version of *Book H.*
The original was 300 pages, and he got it down to 20 or so by using
one complete example and then noting the changes for each different
usage. If you understand the material, this works---and if you don't
understand the material, you shouldn't be using it anyway.*******