>Two months ago, I had an argument with a girlfriend. ... > ...Needless to say, we broke up. > But the next morning, she called me and told me that > she had placed a curse on me
did she tell you what she did to effect this curse?
>- if I ever shave or trim my facial hair, then I will be >impotent the rest of my life.
right, so we know the supposed effects. we could now begin to try to construct such a curse here and see if anything like that was delivered unto you.
I'll try to remember to p-ost that as a response here (a Chaos Magick curse of this type).
>I knew she was into what her friends referred to >as "Chaos Magic". ...
which means nothing at all about her.
> ...her friends ...said that as far as they knew she >could very well have done something like that.
like what, precisely? *said* she placed a curse? Chaos magicians aren't restrained from cursing. do you know if she is a *good* chaos magician? that may be more important long-term.
> ...possible that her curse is real
yes.
> or if it would be safe to shave it off.
do you know if she has ever done any other spells? you should find out from your friends, if you are not already convinced by the other posts in this thread to take a different course, whether she has ever cast spells before and what their results were. if you don't know, and she was your girlfriend, then it is unlikely she had done much in the magic department.
but then again, you didn't even know she was a chaos magician? either she just started (no threat) or she was so clever you never figured out her true power.
> ...I don't want to take a chance...
your first order of business should be to determine whether you want to shave off the beard. if you don't then there is no reason to figure it out except for future options.
taking a chance is something that Chaos Magick works with, yes.
eax5267
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> "furby" <Wookie...@gmail.com>: >>Two months ago, I had an argument with a girlfriend. ... >> ...Needless to say, we broke up. >> But the next morning, she called me and told me that >> she had placed a curse on me
> did she tell you what she did to effect this curse?
Who would do a silly thing like that? That's like handing out crib sheets listing all your tells to your fellow poker players before the game. It's monumentally stupid.
Unless the details of the operation are part of the mind-fuck, there is absolutely no good reason to tell one's victim anything about how you performed the curse and plenty of bad reasons.
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>nagasiva wrote: >>>furby wrote: >>>> Fast forward 2 months and I have a really annoying "Grizzly Adams" >>>> beard developing.
>> "Absorbed" <purestdeform...@hotmail.com>: >>> I'd recommend using freshly crushed mustard seeds and chilli seeds >>> mixed with your shaving foam. That should dispel any curse; it's a >>> common formula.
>> that's liable to burn pretty badly.
> The man wants to dispel a curse, not cure a simple cold.
then why are you using cursing herbs? red pepers and mustard are fairly standard cursing materials. your recommendation
> This is serious business.
could you explain why you're using these items for curse-removal, where you got the notion that red peppers and mustard seeds (black? brown? white?) remove curses, etc.?
> Furby, since this curse threatens impotency, I'd also > recommend shaving off all pubic hair using the same > mixture, but for God's sake be careful.
I'd recommend more research rather than following this person's advice. good luck. cleansing herbs like Hyssop and other remedials would be more commonly employed. it sounds like you were looking for a confirmation that it was nothing to worry about and didn't have a plan to cut off your hair anyways.
nagasiva
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>"l89kk" <yronwode.com@nagasiva> wrote in message >> "furby" <Wookie...@gmail.com>: >>> Two months ago, I had an argument with a girlfriend. ... >>> ...Needless to say, we broke up. >>> But the next morning, she called me and told me that >>> she had placed a curse on me
>> did she tell you what she did to effect this curse?
> Who would do a silly thing like that?
kChaos Magicians
> That's like handing out crib sheets listing all your > tells to your fellow poker players before the game.
no it is not like that at all. if one's victim is a non-magic-user, and unlikely to do anything in response to protect themsleves from the effects because they "don't believe" as some have advised in this newsgroup, it may be a helpful confirmation of having cast the spell in fact.
> It's monumentally stupid.
depends, it could be if one tells the wrong person. if the person is just going to go to someplace like USENET and ask what to do about it (getting hyper- rational responses about 'what you don't believe in cannot hurt you', then it may be somewhat arch.
> Unless the details of the operation are part of > the mind-fuck,
that's one realistic possibility, yes.
> there is absolutely no good reason to tell one's > victim anything about how you performed the curse > and plenty of bad reasons.
you're overlooking the part about how she told him that she had cast the curse, directly. that isn't standard spellcasting either, and the fact that she is a Chaos mage makes anything possible.
my interest was in discovering as much IMPORTANT information as i could and asking for it is the best way to obtain anything substantive. merely concluding without all the data that 'sure it is safe' (because curses don't work, or whatever non- explanation wasn't offered to us) is nonsensical, and asking questions such as i have begun to do is the responsible way to evaluate spellcasting and the likelihood of a curse's effectiveness. more information will be necessary via usenet, and all that has been put forward so far are hints and claims without details.
rather than merely criticize what i am asking, you should be asking more questions of the person who started the thread if you want to provide a valuable magical reference service to those who write to this newsgroup, rather than just promote your own perspective of paltry information and negation of what you don't seem to understand.
jubalcraine
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> "Tom" <dantoPAYATTENTION...@comcast.net>: >>"l89kk" <yronwode.com@nagasiva> wrote in message >>> "furby" <Wookie...@gmail.com>:
>>>> Two months ago, I had an argument with a girlfriend. ... >>>> ...Needless to say, we broke up. >>>> But the next morning, she called me and told me that >>>> she had placed a curse on me
>>> did she tell you what she did to effect this curse?
>> Who would do a silly thing like that?
> kChaos Magicians
OK, you've got a point. There is little silliness that will not be practiced by "chaos magicians".
>> That's like handing out crib sheets listing all your >> tells to your fellow poker players before the game.
> no it is not like that at all. if one's victim is a > non-magic-user, and unlikely to do anything in > response to protect themsleves from the effects > because they "don't believe" as some have advised > in this newsgroup, it may be a helpful confirmation > of having cast the spell in fact.
Helpful to whom? The victim? That seems pretty silly. It's playing to lose.
As for the advice to simply "don't believe it", that's all well and good if you can explain how the querent can reliably stop believing in something that they already know is completely irrational. Psychtherapists all over the world would love to have a technique like that.
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Nagasiva, the suggestion to use mustard seed and chili seeds in his shaving foam came off as sarcasm to me while I was reading it. Imagine how that would feel on a freshly shaven face? (Or as Absorbed suggested later, his lower junk?)
I expect his second post was in the spirit of that same humor. I doubt he was being serious at all.
-Soror
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Soror wrote: > I doubt he > was being serious at all.
But perhaps Furby will seriously want to know where to buy some cleansing herbs like Hyssop and other remedials. Could someone recommend a reputable establishment where one could buy such items?
Soror wrote: > Nagasiva, the suggestion to use mustard seed and chili seeds in his shaving > foam came off as sarcasm to me while I was reading it. Imagine how that > would feel on a freshly shaven face? (Or as Absorbed suggested later, his > lower junk?)
> I expect his second post was in the spirit of that same humor. I doubt he > was being serious at all.
It would certainly make you feel cleaned of the spell :P
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"Tom" <dantoPAYATTENTION...@comcast.net>: # ...There is little silliness that will not be # practiced by "chaos magicians".
whatever random sig i was using (l89kk): #> ...if one's victim is a non-magic-user, and unlikely #> to do anything in response to protect themsleves #> from the effects because they "don't believe" as #> some have advised in this newsgroup, it may be a #> helpful confirmation of having cast the spell in fact. # # Helpful to whom? The victim?
prospective. he wanted to know if we thought that she might in fact have performed such a curse and what the likelihood was that he was in danger of losing his libido due to shaving off his beard in the middle of the curse, as it were.
shaving off a beard might be humourously related to firing your stand-in wife who kept you from a reputation of being gay. chaos mages should be regarded with some seriousness. some of the most interesting and active magicians that i've known were HChaoyotes.
# That seems pretty silly. It's playing to lose.
not to the haughty and those intimidating others who are their full lessors. I am imagining that this girl happened into a Chayoat encleave during a full-on heat she's having of anger, so she's gonna take it out on him for both practice thrills and because he deserves it. her motive seems straightforward. phoning him is one way of engaging him without ever having to see him again and he won't have recorded it, unlike email or some public text-swap.
you're completely correct this would be playing to lose if one were in a real match of wits, skill, and power with an equal.
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Soror wrote: > Nagasiva, the suggestion to use mustard seed and chili seeds in his shaving > foam came off as sarcasm to me while I was reading it. Imagine how that > would feel on a freshly shaven face? (Or as Absorbed suggested later, his > lower junk?)
> I expect his second post was in the spirit of that same humor. I doubt he > was being serious at all.
You would feel burned or like you had cursed yourself. oooh oooh oooh.
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> shaving off a beard might be humourously related > to firing your stand-in wife who kept you from > a reputation of being gay.
This is a pretty loose association.
> chaos mages should be > regarded with some seriousness. some of the most > interesting and active magicians that i've > known were HChaoyotes.
This kind of word coinage is one reason why it is so hard to take anybody calling himself or herself a "chaos magician" seriously.
> # That seems pretty silly. It's playing to lose.
> not to the haughty and those intimidating others > who are their full lessors.
And another example of why they're so hard to take seriously. That sort of puffery is simply silly.
> I am imagining that > this girl happened into a Chayoat encleave during > a full-on heat she's having of anger, so she's > gonna take it out on him for both practice > thrills and because he deserves it.
You are imagining. That much is certain. The rest is questionable.
> you're completely correct this would be > playing to lose if one were in a real match > of wits, skill, and power with an equal.
Actually, from my perspective, it seems to be a match of lackwits. Nobody wins. Everybody loses.
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> chaos mages should be regarded with some seriousness.
Heh.
No they should not.
Seriousness is one's undoing.
> some of the most interesting and active magicians that i've > known were HChaoyotes.
Do tell.
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> Soror wrote: > > I doubt he > > was being serious at all.
> But perhaps Furby will seriously want to know where to buy some > cleansing herbs like Hyssop and other remedials. Could someone > recommend a reputable establishment where one could buy such items?
> I am sure nagasiva is aware of my sarcasm.
A's sarcasm is a waste of time.
Hyssop, recommended in the Bible for removal of sins, and Rue, used by Italians and other Europeans for removal of curses, are well know spiritual herbs that can be found for sale all over the iternet from a variety of magical supply shops. Lemon Grass, an Asian herb used for the same purpose, can be found in spiritual shops as well as in some Asian grocery stores, as it is used in South Asian cookery. Syrian Rue (Aspand), used by Iranians and other Middle Eastern folks for removal of the evil eye and other cursed conditions can be found in sopiritual supply shops and also in Middle Eastern grocery stores. In a pinch, you can also use pine resin, burned as an incense -- it's free, if you have pine trees around.
Good luck.
cat yronwode
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> Hyssop, recommended in the Bible for removal of sins, and Rue, used by > Italians and other Europeans for removal of curses, are well know > spiritual herbs that can be found for sale all over the iternet from a > variety of magical supply shops.
Something to note is that the biblical hyssop is not the herb known as "common hyssop", hyssopus officinalis. That plant was unknown in the Sinai at the time the Book of Psalms was written. Rather, the hyssop of the bible is believed by scholars to have been origanum maru, also known as Syrian oregano.
Another interesting tidbit of lore is that dittany of Crete, origanum dictamnus, used in ceremonies of evocation, is also in the oregano genus.
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> > Hyssop, recommended in the Bible for removal of sins, and Rue, used by > > Italians and other Europeans for removal of curses, are well know > > spiritual herbs that can be found for sale all over the iternet from a > > variety of magical supply shops.
> Something to note is that the biblical hyssop is not the herb known as > "common hyssop", hyssopus officinalis. That plant was unknown in the Sinai > at the time the Book of Psalms was written. Rather, the hyssop of the bible > is believed by scholars to have been origanum maru, also known as Syrian > oregano.
> Another interesting tidbit of lore is that dittany of Crete, origanum > dictamnus, used in ceremonies of evocation, is also in the oregano genus.
True enough, and along these same lines, what European mages call Rue (Ruta graveolens) and consider a cleansing and protective herb is probably a local substitution for Aspand / Esphand / Harmal (Perganum harmala), which is known to Europeans as Syrian Rue.
Aspand has a multi-millennia-old use in Middle Eastern magic and medicine dating back at least to early Zoroastrian days. It contains MAO inhibitors and is decidedly psychoactive, a mood-lifter. European Rue is merely a leaf-look-alike with no psychoactive properties.
Interestingly, in our Euro-centric language stylings, the earlier-used plant is tagged with the modifying adjective "Syrian" as if it were a substitute for "real" Rue, but the oppositie seems to be the case -- European Rue was given the transferred protective magical symbolism of Aspand because its leaves looks like those of Aspand.
Prior to the development of the Linnean system of botany, leaf-look-alikes were often confused with genetic relatives.
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> Interestingly, in our Euro-centric language stylings, the earlier-used > plant is tagged with the modifying adjective "Syrian" as if it were a > substitute for "real" Rue, but the oppositie seems to be the case -- > European Rue was given the transferred protective magical symbolism of > Aspand because its leaves looks like those of Aspand.
> Prior to the development of the Linnean system of botany, > leaf-look-alikes were often confused with genetic relatives.
Not to mention the Law of Similarities. Mandrake, for another example, owes a great deal of its magical properties to the fact that the root often resembles the human form.
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>>Interestingly, in our Euro-centric language stylings, the earlier-used >>plant is tagged with the modifying adjective "Syrian" as if it were a >>substitute for "real" Rue, but the oppositie seems to be the case -- >>European Rue was given the transferred protective magical symbolism of >>Aspand because its leaves looks like those of Aspand.
>>Prior to the development of the Linnean system of botany, >>leaf-look-alikes were often confused with genetic relatives.
> Not to mention the Law of Similarities. Mandrake, for another example, owes > a great deal of its magical properties to the fact that the root often > resembles the human form.
But..getting back to "arithmancy".... -- Joe L .
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>>> Interestingly, in our Euro-centric language stylings, the earlier-used >>> plant is tagged with the modifying adjective "Syrian" as if it were a >>> substitute for "real" Rue, but the oppositie seems to be the case -- >>> European Rue was given the transferred protective magical symbolism of >>> Aspand because its leaves looks like those of Aspand.
>>> Prior to the development of the Linnean system of botany, >>> leaf-look-alikes were often confused with genetic relatives.
>> Not to mention the Law of Similarities. Mandrake, for another >> example, owes a great deal of its magical properties to the fact that >> the root often resembles the human form.
> But..getting back to "arithmancy".... > -- > Joe L
DE ARTE KABBALISTICA
Do thou study most constantly in the Art of the Holy Qabalah. Know that herein the Relations between Numbers, though they be mighty in Power and prodigal of Knowledge, are but lesser Things. For the Work is to reduce all other conceptions to these of Number, because thus thou wilt lay bare the very Structure of thy Mind, whose rule is Necessity rather than Prejudice. Not until the Universe is thus laid naked before thee canst thou truly anatomize it. The Tendencies of thy Mind lie deeper far than any Thought, for they are the Conditions and the Laws of Thought; and it is these that thou must bring to Nought.
This Way is most sure; most sacred; and the Enemies thereof most awful, most sublime. It is for the Great Souls to enter on this Rigour and Austerity. To them the Gods themselves do Homage; for it is the Way of Utmost Purity. -- AC: Liber III -- JL .
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Joseph Littleshoes <jpsti...@isp.com> quotes Crowley:
> DE ARTE KABBALISTICA
post-Cabalistica
> Do thou study most constantly in the Art of the Holy Qabalah. > Know that herein the Relations between Numbers, though they be > mighty in Power and prodigal of Knowledge, are but lesser Things.
this is anti-Pythagoreanism. it seeks to disempower the auspicious ontological qualities of numbers, and to place them in a modern reductionist mode.
observe as Crowley continues:
> For the Work is to reduce all other conceptions to these > of Number, because thus thou wilt lay bare the very > Structure of thy Mind, whose rule is Necessity rather > than Prejudice. Not until the Universe is thus laid > naked before thee canst thou truly anatomize it.
it is also orientalist in its grasping displacement both Indian and Jewish in style.
> The Tendencies of thy Mind lie deeper far than any > Thought, for they are the Conditions and the Laws > of Thought; and it is these that thou must bring to Nought.
it is expression such as this which foments and urges the aim of terminating conscious intellection. not only is this futile, but it may self-disable and prepare the blossoming esotericist with the necessary programming to be fleeced at some future point in time.
> This Way is most sure; most sacred; and the Enemies > thereof most awful, most sublime. It is for the Great > Souls to enter on this Rigour and Austerity. To them > the Gods themselves do Homage; for it is the Way of > Utmost Purity.
gods pay tribute to other gods. it is only speciesism which prevents their recognition of deific animals.
> -- > AC: Liber III
333 luckymojo.com@nagasiva
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333 wrote: > Joseph Littleshoes <jpsti...@isp.com> quotes Crowley:
>> DE ARTE KABBALISTICA
> post-Cabalistica
>>Do thou study most constantly in the Art of the Holy Qabalah. >>Know that herein the Relations between Numbers, though they be >>mighty in Power and prodigal of Knowledge, are but lesser Things.
> this is anti-Pythagoreanism. it seeks to disempower the auspicious > ontological qualities of numbers, and to place them in a modern > reductionist mode.
> observe as Crowley continues:
>>For the Work is to reduce all other conceptions to these >>of Number, because thus thou wilt lay bare the very >>Structure of thy Mind, whose rule is Necessity rather >>than Prejudice. Not until the Universe is thus laid >>naked before thee canst thou truly anatomize it.
> it is also orientalist in its grasping displacement > both Indian and Jewish in style.
>>The Tendencies of thy Mind lie deeper far than any >>Thought, for they are the Conditions and the Laws >>of Thought; and it is these that thou must bring to Nought.
> it is expression such as this which foments and urges > the aim of terminating conscious intellection.
Do you think the "tendencies of the mind" can not or should not be discovered?
not only
> is this futile,
Have to disagree there,
but it may self-disable and prepare the
> blossoming esotericist with the necessary programming > to be fleeced at some future point in time.
There is always collateral damage, whether in mark masons hall or the local deli, slice that tomato wrong and you might lose a finger.
>>This Way is most sure; most sacred; and the Enemies >>thereof most awful, most sublime. It is for the Great >>Souls to enter on this Rigour and Austerity. To them >>the Gods themselves do Homage; for it is the Way of >>Utmost Purity.
> gods pay tribute to other gods. it is only speciesism > which prevents their recognition of deific animals.
"there is no God but Man" -- JL
>>-- >>AC: Liber III
> 333 > luckymojo.com@nagasiva
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.
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> 333 wrote: >> Joseph Littleshoes <jpsti...@isp.com> quotes Crowley:
>>> DE ARTE KABBALISTICA
>> post-Cabalistica
>>> Do thou study most constantly in the Art of the Holy Qabalah. >>> Know that herein the Relations between Numbers, though they be mighty >>> in Power and prodigal of Knowledge, are but lesser Things.
>> this is anti-Pythagoreanism. it seeks to disempower the auspicious >> ontological qualities of numbers, and to place them in a modern >> reductionist mode. >> observe as Crowley continues:
>>> For the Work is to reduce all other conceptions to these of Number, >>> because thus thou wilt lay bare the very Structure of thy Mind, whose >>> rule is Necessity rather than Prejudice. Not until the Universe is >>> thus laid >>> naked before thee canst thou truly anatomize it.
>> it is also orientalist in its grasping displacement both Indian and >> Jewish in style.
>snip<
>> gods pay tribute to other gods. it is only speciesism which prevents >> their recognition of deific animals.
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On Feb 16, 2:06 pm, Meltdarok <meltda...@aol.com> wrote:
> Joseph Littleshoes wrote, On 2/16/2007 3:48 AM: > > "there is no God but Man"
> There is no Man but God.
1. -Man, but there is no God! 2. -No, but there is Mangod. 1. -But God... Is there no Man? 2. -"But God..." ... No Man is there... 1. -...but Mangod is there, no? 2. - ... 1. -No, Mangod IS there. 2. Yes.
Thee truth be told we could sit here and wax and wain about theology all day long, but in the end what does it actually prove? How your magickal wand is longer than someone elses? The fact of the matter (I know, damn me, damn me damn me for using facts...) is that this person believed in the curse, therefore in his mind it has become a reality, therefore making it reality..
The ex is better at the chaotic than norm, she actually called him to tell him she put a hoodoo on him, this causes psychosmatic issues as well. More so concreating the idea that this is infact true.
Would it work? Well, without a question, yes, simply because the person that it was placed upon believed it might, proven by the fact that he was worried about it enough to actually post the question in usenet.
Thee Simple truth is that if you do not believe it will work, it won't, it comes down to a battle of wills, and whom ever's will is stronger is going to win...
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On Feb 18, 10:59 pm, "JG" <jllgn...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 16, 2:06 pm, Meltdarok <meltda...@aol.com> wrote:
> > Joseph Littleshoes wrote, On 2/16/2007 3:48 AM: > > > "there is no God but Man"
> > There is no Man but God.
> 1. -Man, but there is no God! > 2. -No, but there is Mangod. > 1. -But God... Is there no Man? > 2. -"But God..." ... No Man is there... > 1. -...but Mangod is there, no? > 2. - ... > 1. -No, Mangod IS there. > 2. Yes.
As Man is now, God once was. As God is now, Man may become.
