If the base price of a machine is $90K, with about $15K in options (rigid tapping, larger carousel, renishaw, programmable coolant, etc), how much wiggle room is there in the bottom-line price?
How does one gracefully, visavis combattively, negotiate a discount?
Big machine vendors, like Haas, have substantial educational discounts, and I would think that "we" could get at least a piece of that.
> If the base price of a machine is $90K, with about $15K in options (rigid
> tapping, larger carousel, renishaw, programmable coolant, etc), how much
> wiggle room is there in the bottom-line price?
> How does one gracefully, visavis combattively, negotiate a discount?
> Big machine vendors, like Haas, have substantial educational discounts, and
> I would think that "we" could get at least a piece of that.
> Iny thoughts?
> --
> EA
how about a discount based on the low volume of machine sales the past
year and projected ?
>> If the base price of a machine is $90K, with about $15K in options (rigid
>> tapping, larger carousel, renishaw, programmable coolant, etc), how much
>> wiggle room is there in the bottom-line price?
>> How does one gracefully, visavis combattively, negotiate a discount?
>> Big machine vendors, like Haas, have substantial educational discounts, and
>> I would think that "we" could get at least a piece of that.
>> Iny thoughts?
>> --
>> EA
>how about a discount based on the low volume of machine sales the past
>year and projected ?
> If the base price of a machine is $90K, with about $15K in options (rigid
> tapping, larger carousel, renishaw, programmable coolant, etc), how much
> wiggle room is there in the bottom-line price?
> How does one gracefully, visavis combattively, negotiate a discount?
> Big machine vendors, like Haas, have substantial educational discounts, and
> I would think that "we" could get at least a piece of that.
> Iny thoughts?
> --
> EA
All depends on the distributor....tho like others have said demand is
currently up....funny thing is demand is up because many companies
have really cut down on producing machines over the past couple of
years. The best sales guy I ever dealt with was a no-bs guy....he gave
the bottom line first..no wiggle room....an we gave him alot of
business cuz of that (lets say my old place was FULL of matsuura's)
>> how about a discount based on the low volume of machine sales the past
>> year and projected ?
>You must live under the same rocks as Gunner. The demand for machine
>tools is way up. Since sales are good and machine builders are running
>at or near capacity (e.g. Mazak Kentucky is working 24/7), the chances >of getting a "killer deal" right now are extremely slim.
>-- >Black Dragon
So Los Angeles is "the rocks"?
Interesting
Seems like the folks who run the Industrial Machine Trader are padding
their weekly catalogs then eh?
Ive never seen more pages of Going out of business auctions.
But hey...you are da man!
Snicker
Gunner
One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that, in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid. Gunner Asch
Some shops are busy. When your two competitors have gone tits up..out of
business, are now empty buildings...any work that they might have
gotten in small quantities winds up on your front desk.
So yeah...some shops are busy. Indeed. This however leaves out the fact
that the other two competitors employees are drawing unemployment or in
one case of a very good machine repair tech...working in the electrical
department of Home Depot. His repair company went tits up because their
customers went out of business and 0+0 = 0
If you are not aware of this...Id strongly suggest you get out of the
shop a bit more..and drive around the industrial areas and start
counting For Sale/For Lease/For Rent signs.
I cant speak for the Gay Bay area..but in So Cal...simply driving down
the 5 freeway will show exactly what Im talking about from Van Nuys
south to Tustin...there are more such signs than there are open
metalworking businesses just along the freeway alone.
Sad....just browsing thru some of the postings they are offering $13-
$19/hr...in friggin Torrance. How much is rent for a studio apt in a
somewhat secure neighborhood there? would $13-$19 cover that? No
wonder manufacturing is shit in Cali.
Very high? 8 jobs for machinists in an area of 12 million people?
Right
Gunner
One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that, in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid. Gunner Asch
This area is sure hurting for machinists and welders.
A local company used to try to import them from Michigan, but I
suspect they are a little bit busy there too?
<jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Feb 11, 5:57 am, Garlicdude <pul...@garlic.com> wrote:
>> jon_banquer wrote:
>> > Demand for machinists is very high in LA.
> On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 13:26:55 -0800 (PST), jon_banquer
> <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Feb 11, 5:57 am, Garlicdude <pul...@garlic.com> wrote:
> >> jon_banquer wrote:
> >> > Demand for machinists is very high in LA.
> >You got the brains you get paid a wage that won't make you rich.
> >You got the brains you don't get raped like Bottleboob did.
> >We need to restore the apprenticeship programs we use to have and
> >modernize them.
> >Even if we did Gunner would still be unemployed.
> Au Contrair, fucklips. Somebody has to fix the machines you fuck up.
> Im NOT a machinist. Im a service guy.
> Gunner
It's the "great cull" and you've been "culled". Looks like it didn't
turn out the way you thought. Consider it's the shit holes you
serviced or use to service that have gone out of business because they
can't compete with shops who understand the value of running state of
the art machines.
Perhaps you can convince the remaining dumps you service to retrofit
their old machining centers like this smart guy who can't retire did:
> Very high? 8 jobs for machinists in an area of 12 million people?
> Right
> Gunner
> One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
> in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
> and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
> not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
> Gunner Asch
> On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 13:26:55 -0800 (PST), jon_banquer
> <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Feb 11, 5:57 am, Garlicdude <pul...@garlic.com> wrote:
> >> jon_banquer wrote:
> >> > Demand for machinists is very high in LA.
> > >You got the brains you get paid a wage that won't make you rich.
> > >You got the brains you don't get raped like Bottleboob did.
> > >We need to restore the apprenticeship programs we use to have and
> > >modernize them.
> > >Even if we did Gunner would still be unemployed.
> > Au Contrair, fucklips. Somebody has to fix the machines you fuck up.
> > Im NOT a machinist. Im a service guy.
> > Gunner
> It's the "great cull" and you've been "culled". Looks like it didn't
> turn out the way you thought. Consider it's the shit holes you
> serviced or use to service that have gone out of business because they
> can't compete with shops who understand the value of running state of
> the art machines.
> Perhaps you can convince the remaining dumps you service to retrofit
> their old machining centers like this smart guy who can't retire did:
<jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Feb 11, 4:41 pm, Gunner Asch <gunnera...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 13:26:55 -0800 (PST), jon_banquer
>> <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >On Feb 11, 5:57 am, Garlicdude <pul...@garlic.com> wrote:
>> >> jon_banquer wrote:
>> >> > Demand for machinists is very high in LA.
>> >You got the brains you get paid a wage that won't make you rich.
>> >You got the brains you don't get raped like Bottleboob did.
>> >We need to restore the apprenticeship programs we use to have and
>> >modernize them.
>> >Even if we did Gunner would still be unemployed.
>> Au Contrair, fucklips. Somebody has to fix the machines you fuck up.
>> Im NOT a machinist. Im a service guy.
>> Gunner
>It's the "great cull" and you've been "culled". Looks like it didn't
>turn out the way you thought. Consider it's the shit holes you
>serviced or use to service that have gone out of business because they
>can't compete with shops who understand the value of running state of
>the art machines.
>Perhaps you can convince the remaining dumps you service to retrofit
>their old machining centers like this smart guy who can't retire did:
> If the base price of a machine is $90K, with about $15K in options (rigid
> tapping, larger carousel, renishaw, programmable coolant, etc), how much
> wiggle room is there in the bottom-line price?
> How does one gracefully, visavis combattively, negotiate a discount?
> Big machine vendors, like Haas, have substantial educational discounts, and
> I would think that "we" could get at least a piece of that.
> Iny thoughts?
> --
> EA
I have a thought. You ain't getting much of a discount or a quick
delivery.
No matter what anyone says machine tool sales are way up, inventory is
very low, and there is no real need to discount. If you really feel
the need to get a big discount, tell the salesman you won't buy
anything unless you get 20% off. That way he'll know to bump the price
25% and give you some of your money back.
If you bring in every builder of low end off-beat Chiwanese and Korean
machines, you might get a few extra percent off. Your best bet for
savings is in tooling certificates and the like. The machine tool
distributors usually have a resale discount on those in the range of
50% +/- depending on brand. Often they will pass it through to you.
However, they are usually only valid with the purchase of a brand new
machine and with most you have to spend it all at once.
You should also plan on a long delivery and waiting on a service tech
for install.
Machine sales were up last year over 75% in the US alone. On top of
that the Chinese are still buying machines like they are goijng to
stop making them tomorrow. They are starting to figure out that even
cheap labor is expensive over time and they are buying what is for
them higher end CNC's which would be fairly basic by our standards.
I haven't spent much time on usenet or in PM in the last year or so
because it's too damn busy. The machine tool biz is cyclical and nows
the time to try to earn enough to survive the next downturn which is
just as certain as death and taxes.
The economy has little to do with the cycle either. We have had tough
downturns when the rest of the country were paying too much for houses
and buying big SUV's. If you are in the machine tool biz and aren't
making money right now, it's time to consider changing your
occupation.
