Gut Check...
Anonymous
Hi, sorry for the anon. post, I have my reasons though...
I'm newly engaged (several months), and need a gut check on some
of my emotions. The morning after we got engaged, my fiancee told
me that she was 'having to get over' the way I proposed. We had
been dating for a while, and she apparantly expected something more
elaborate than what I ended up doing. This, I had pretty much
gotten over when I found out this weekend that she had been looking
on some diamond sites to figure out how much her engagement ring
cost, and that she didn't think I had spent two months salary. (FWIW,
my job situation was pretty complicated at the time, but I did think
the ring was a splurge. It's easily 50-60% more than the rings she
and I had looked at together.) All this happened long after we pretty
much agreed that it didn't really matter what the ring cost, as long
as we were both happy.
I guess the only two other germane things to mention are:
She's been pretty caught up with the way the ring compares
to other people around her that have gotten engaged.
I recently (12-15 months ago) bought a sports car that I had been
dreaming about for 3-4 years. She mentioned that she was
concerned that proposing to her was worth as much as the down
payment on my car. That was one of the reasons she started looking
at diamond sites.
Well, I've been pretty long winded, but this whole thing has me a little
depressed. I know you don't have a whole lot of information from this
post, but I'd just like to know your gut reaction...
-Anon.
Nobody
> cost, and that she didn't think I had spent two months salary.
My DW and I shared the cost of her wedding set. We found
what we wanted and she put down a $100 deposit. I broke
my piggy bank to pay the difference when the set was ready
...and never paid her back the $100 I owed. Ha! Our 15th
anniversary is this year...I think the interest charges
would kill me at this point. Lol.
Drew
Nena
Just one question though: what did she buy you for your engagement?
"Anonymous" <an...@anon.net> wrote in message
news:6Owm6.6850$Op3.3...@news4.aus1.giganews.com...
Anonymous
"Nena" <ann...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > I think we should just
Dr_Webb handle this one....
Who or What is Dr_Webb? I've found a couple online
refs, but not enough to know for sure what you mean.
> Just one question though: what did she buy you for your engagement?
Nothing... but I don't think either of us were aware that that's
a tradition.
-Anon
B and B
>
> I'm newly engaged (several months), and need a gut check on some
> of my emotions. The morning after we got engaged, my fiancee told
> me that she was 'having to get over' the way I proposed.
Huh? Unless you said "Listen here, skank, I think you and me, we need to
make this relationship legal. How about getting married?" , before slipping
a skull ring on her finger, then I can't imagine what she would need to get
over.
We had
> been dating for a while, and she apparantly expected something more
> elaborate than what I ended up doing.
Oh. I see. Did you forget the part where you take her to the beach or the
place where you had your first date and present her with 3 dozen long stem
roses and a 4 carat solitaire while 15 of your closest friends join in and
sing "My Girl" ?
This, I had pretty much
> gotten over when I found out this weekend that she had been looking
> on some diamond sites to figure out how much her engagement ring
> cost, and that she didn't think I had spent two months salary.
I know for a fact that my husband didn't. In fact, I know that he spent a
paycheck on it. I still love it to death and you will never get it off my
finger.
(FWIW,
> my job situation was pretty complicated at the time, but I did think
> the ring was a splurge. It's easily 50-60% more than the rings she
> and I had looked at together.) All this happened long after we pretty
> much agreed that it didn't really matter what the ring cost, as long
> as we were both happy.
Apparently that isn't exactly the case.
> I guess the only two other germane things to mention are:
>
> She's been pretty caught up with the way the ring compares
> to other people around her that have gotten engaged.
Why? Did it come out of a gumball machine? Or a box of cracker jacks? Is
she at all excited about the actual wedding/life together part of it or is
she only hung up on her ring?
> I recently (12-15 months ago) bought a sports car that I had been
> dreaming about for 3-4 years. She mentioned that she was
> concerned that proposing to her was worth as much as the down
> payment on my car. That was one of the reasons she started looking
> at diamond sites.
Oh...I see. Well, was it? Or wasn't it? If that is her only concern,
perhaps you should consider what kind of attitude she may have about
finances later on...
>
> Well, I've been pretty long winded, but this whole thing has me a little
> depressed. I know you don't have a whole lot of information from this
> post, but I'd just like to know your gut reaction...
My gut reaction is to say that isn't the way one usually reacts. My husband
proposed to me without the ring in his pocket..I got the ring a week later.
I still cherish it. As soon as I got the ring I showed it to everyone I
knew. A few of my friends have been engaged since them. Yes, some of
their rings are bigger. I wouldn't trade with them no matter what.
So....if I were you I would be depressed too.
>
> -Anon.
>
>
momalot
know her and what she expects out of a relationship, both short term and
long term plans?
For me to read your post, because I don't know more, I would assume from
your tone that she just wants to be married, and have a big ring, to show
off to her friends. It sounds like marriage is just something to show off to
her.
But, I could be totally wrong. :-) Definitely talk to her, and talk to her
again and again, before you do get married. If there are second guessings
going on, hold off on the marriage. Like my momma always said, "Go with your
gut instinct". In this case, I think your gut is telling you something,
that your heart doesn't.
momalot
floridanewbie
>Hi, sorry for the anon. post, I have my reasons though...
Hehe ... don't we all?
>I'm newly engaged (several months), and need a gut check on some
>of my emotions. The morning after we got engaged, my fiancee told
>me that she was 'having to get over' the way I proposed. We had
>been dating for a while, and she apparantly expected something more
>elaborate than what I ended up doing.
How old are the two of you? How long have you been dating? Have the
two of you ever had any deep conversations about what each of you want
out of life?
>This, I had pretty much
>gotten over when I found out this weekend that she had been looking
>on some diamond sites to figure out how much her engagement ring
>cost, and that she didn't think I had spent two months salary.
What is the two month's salary thing? Is that some bullshit jewelers
try to guilt you with?
If the two of you were really ready to marry for the right reasons,
the value of the ring would not matter ... you do know you can become
engaged without any ring, don't you? She sounds either very
immature, focused on the wrong things, or greedy. Big red flag
either way.
I wonder what kind of expensive, fairy tale wedding she expects ...
are her folks rich enough to induge her tastes or will you have to go
into hock for the rest of your life to have the "perfect" wedding? I
have a cousin whose son & bride were totally focused on having their
wedding at DisneyWorld (of all the putrid places to get married) ...
that is all anyone could talk about for months. The actual marriage
only lasted a few weeks before they headed for divorce court.
> (FWIW,
>my job situation was pretty complicated at the time, but I did think
>the ring was a splurge. It's easily 50-60% more than the rings she
>and I had looked at together.) All this happened long after we pretty
>much agreed that it didn't really matter what the ring cost, as long
>as we were both happy.
I guess you only thought you had agreed ... another red flag. It's
that old communication thing long-time couples talk about.
>I guess the only two other germane things to mention are:
>
> She's been pretty caught up with the way the ring compares
> to other people around her that have gotten engaged.
Man, wait until she starts comparing the "important" thing ... um,
what size shoes do you wear? Do you have real long arms?
Seriously, if she isn't too immature for marriage, she may be greedy
.. you may be in debt your whole life paying for that huge house she
must have and all the designer stuff to fill it.
> I recently (12-15 months ago) bought a sports car that I had been
> dreaming about for 3-4 years. She mentioned that she was
> concerned that proposing to her was worth as much as the down
> payment on my car. That was one of the reasons she started looking
> at diamond sites.
Did you buy it before meeting her or was it a joint decision? Perhaps
she is attracted to your car and your assumed ability to spend a lot
of money. You cannot win that kind of game unless you are quite
wealthy and even then some other guy will come along with more money,
longer arms and big feet.
>Well, I've been pretty long winded, but this whole thing has me a little
>depressed. I know you don't have a whole lot of information from this
>post, but I'd just like to know your gut reaction...
I've been kind of hard on you and on her ... all from a little snippet
of a post. That's what happens when I get into a p*ssy mood.
Seriously, think twice about this union and consider couples
counseling to see if you are really on the same page ... or if you are
even using the same playbook. I would also suggest you each pull and
share your current credit reports ... there may be some nasty
surprises.
Floridanewbie
Searcher
We are living in a material world
and she's a material girl...
-=madonna=-
careful here, while your discussions may end up with an "all is well,"
materialistic people [hell, all people...] build resentments. You may want
to bring this up [resentments] in discussions as well, just to keep the air
clear...
__
-=<{:::jSl:::}>=-
http://www.geocities.com/tsjogolo
Anonymous wrote in message
<6Owm6.6850$Op3.3...@news4.aus1.giganews.com>...
Naj
This whole post seems to bode badly for the future.....I got my ring a year
after we were married...And I didn't take it off my finger once it was put on
it......
It was the fact the 'he' gave it to me that mattered....
Hmmm,
sounds like your finance' is young and more into the superficial 'show' of
relationships (how you proposed, how big the ring is, your car payment) than
the deeper stuff that makes a relationship work.....
Talk to her, be upfront...
But be prepared to have your eyes opened....
Naj,
The way to change other's minds is with affection, and not anger. -
the Dalai Lama (The Transformed Mind)
floridanewbie
Hey Drew ... how come you are an hour ahead of the rest of the world?
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:13:20 -0800
Before 4PM EST I noticed your post ... is it your system with the
funny clock or the provider you are using? ... not that it really
matters :-)
Floridanewbie
Anonymous
"B and B" <baboon...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:97e8gn$3hmu$1...@newssvr06-en0.news.prodigy.com...
>
> Anonymous <an...@anon.net> wrote in message
> news:6Owm6.6850$Op3.3...@news4.aus1.giganews.com...
> >
> > Hi, sorry for the anon. post, I have my reasons though...
> >
> > I'm newly engaged (several months), and need a gut check on some
> > of my emotions. The morning after we got engaged, my fiancee told
> > me that she was 'having to get over' the way I proposed.
>
> Huh? Unless you said "Listen here, skank, I think you and me, we need to
> make this relationship legal. How about getting married?" , before
slipping
> a skull ring on her finger, then I can't imagine what she would need to
get
> over.
Neither can I... I thought it was pretty romantic myself... I think she
thought
it was romantic too, but like I said, she said that she needed to get over
it, which
I found pretty amazing.
> We had
> > been dating for a while, and she apparantly expected something more
> > elaborate than what I ended up doing.
>
> Oh. I see. Did you forget the part where you take her to the beach or
the
> place where you had your first date and present her with 3 dozen long stem
> roses and a 4 carat solitaire while 15 of your closest friends join in and
> sing "My Girl" ?
More or less...
> This, I had pretty much
> > gotten over when I found out this weekend that she had been looking
> > on some diamond sites to figure out how much her engagement ring
> > cost, and that she didn't think I had spent two months salary.
>
> I know for a fact that my husband didn't. In fact, I know that he spent a
> paycheck on it. I still love it to death and you will never get it off my
> finger.
I think she actually likes the ring I gave her, but the whole checking out
the price/comaring it against the car thing really bothers me. Maybe she
does like it, but why would she go to such lengths on the price.She was
even somewhat startled that I didn't pay for it in one chunk.
> > She's been pretty caught up with the way the ring compares
> > to other people around her that have gotten engaged.
>
> Why? Did it come out of a gumball machine? Or a box of cracker jacks?
Trust me, it's a nice ring. :-)
> Is she at all excited about the actual wedding/life together part of it or
is
> she only hung up on her ring?
I know she's excited about the wedding. I think she's excited about the
life together stuff.
> My gut reaction is to say that isn't the way one usually reacts.
That's kind of what I was thinking.
> As soon as I got the ring I showed it to everyone I knew.
She's done that.
> A few of my friends have been engaged since them. Yes, some of
> their rings are bigger.
Same thing here...
> I wouldn't trade with them no matter what.
She'd say the same thing. 90% of her actions indicate that she's really
happy. The other 10% make me wonder.
-Anon
Anonymous
"Naj" <naj...@aol.compostheap> wrote in message
news:20010226152952...@ng-cs1.aol.com...
> And I didn't take it off my finger once it was put on it......
She hasn't either, except to have it resized.
> Hmmm,
> sounds like your finance' is young
mid twenties...
> Talk to her, be upfront...
Probably a good idea...
-Anon
Anonymous
"momalot" <dadalot...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3A9AAA48...@hotmail.com...
> How long have you known your fiance?
somewhat more than 2 years.
> What I am getting at is, do you really
> know her and what she expects out of a relationship, both short term and
> long term plans?
I thought so. We've talked in particular about the first year or two.
> For me to read your post, because I don't know more, I would assume from
> your tone that she just wants to be married, and have a big ring, to show
> off to her friends. It sounds like marriage is just something to show off
to
> her.
She hadn't been planning on in until I came along. :-)
> In this case, I think your gut is telling you something,
> that your heart doesn't.
Perhaps so... sigh...
-Anon
Nena
>
> "Nena" <ann...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > I think we should just
> Dr_Webb handle this one....
>
> Who or What is Dr_Webb? I've found a couple online
> refs, but not enough to know for sure what you mean.
Sorry, I just couldn't resist.
Dr_Webb is our troll, who drops by ever so often to enlighten us with some
theories about money grabbing bitches. Even though we have to share him with
a few other newsgroups, he still contributes to everybodys amusement with
his generalisations about women who are just after your money and destroy
you emotionally.
but now to your situation:
I think you should think long and hard about her reaction. That engagement
ring was a gift, given to her by you because you want to spend the rest of
your life with her. It's a symbol of your love.
Now i am asking you: Can you put a price on love, on commitment ?
If she loves you would she have cared about the price of the ring or would
the fact that you want to make that commitment to her just make her
incredibly happy?
If she loved you , wouldn't she have thought about how much she could hurt
you by critisizing the gift you gave her out of love?
When my ex-husband proposed to me, he didn't even have a ring. And you know
what? I didn't even notice! I was so completely over the moon, that he
wanted to spend his life with me, that he loved me so much, that he wanted
to have this kind of commitment with me, that I never even thought about the
ring until he gave it to me a few weeks later. This was 16 years ago and I
still don't have the faintest idea how much this ring is worth.
If the excitement about the ring and the wedding is stronger than the
excitement about the marriage, I would see this a a very bad sign.
Either she is completly shallow, or very, very young ( saying that though I
was only 20 when I was proposed to) or really just a materialisticand self
centered woman.
The reason I asked you what you got from her, was just to make you think
about the purpose of the ring. No, it is not a tradition, but boy, isn't it
exciting when you are so in love with each other that you can surprise each
other with little things and little gifts and know that they will be
appreciated?
Knowing that everytime you do something special for her you will get
rewarded with a smile, a sparkle in her eyes, a hug and excitement?
Where do you see yourself with her 5 years down the road?
I have a bad feeling, that you will have a nagging wife at home, who can't
be pleased with anything.
It's not too late to change your mind. You may even get a refund on that
ring......
Nena
"Günstige Winde kann nur der nutzen, der weiß, wohin er will"
Cassie & Shep
of the ring, why doesn' she just go to a jewellers and have it appraised.
Better yet, why didn't she kick in a few bucks to help pay for the ring?
If I were you, I'd tell her to get off her high horse, and grow up.
Anonymous
"floridanewbie" <florid...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3a9ab3ed...@news.mindspring.com...
> On Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:57:22 GMT, "Anonymous" <an...@anon.net> wrote:
>
> >Hi, sorry for the anon. post, I have my reasons though...
>
> Hehe ... don't we all?
Yup. :-)
> >I'm newly engaged (several months), and need a gut check on some
> >of my emotions. The morning after we got engaged, my fiancee told
> >me that she was 'having to get over' the way I proposed. We had
> >been dating for a while, and she apparantly expected something more
> >elaborate than what I ended up doing.
>
> How old are the two of you?
Mid twenties.
> How long have you been dating?
A couple years. That's actually one of the problems. She got
ready for a proposal about a year into the relationship, and the fact
that I hadn't proposed caused serious problems. At one point she
asked me to see a therapist to investigate why I hadn't proposed
yet.
> >This, I had pretty much
> >gotten over when I found out this weekend that she had been looking
> >on some diamond sites to figure out how much her engagement ring
> >cost, and that she didn't think I had spent two months salary.
>
> What is the two month's salary thing? Is that some bullshit jewelers
> try to guilt you with?
It's DeBeers, but the idea's the same.
> If the two of you were really ready to marry for the right reasons,
> the value of the ring would not matter ...
I thought so too. I really wish I understood the dichotomy between her
professions that she's happy with the ring, and yet she's insecure about
the cost relative to the down payment I put on my car.
> you do know you can become
> engaged without any ring, don't you?
Yes.
> I wonder what kind of expensive, fairy tale wedding she expects ...
We've already talked about this. Booked a consultant and everything.
> are her folks rich enough to induge her tastes
Not really. They're going to help, but they're in somewhat of a bind. At any
rate, she and I (read my savings) will foot the bulk of the bill. At any
rate,
she's upset because a lot of the wedding's burden (travel, etc.) is on her
folks,
while mine are in a better position.
>or will you have to go
> into hock for the rest of your life to have the "perfect" wedding?
No... it'll be managable.
> I
> have a cousin whose son & bride were totally focused on having their
> wedding at DisneyWorld (of all the putrid places to get married) ...
That can get _expensive_. $65K for there top package for 100 people.
We aren't close to that.
> Did you buy it before meeting her or was it a joint decision?
We looked around a little... to get ideas. She didn't really want to
get involved initially. At any rate, we looked at rings enough to
give me an idea of what she liked. I actually bought a significantly
nicer diamond than the ones we looked at.
> I would also suggest you each pull and
> share your current credit reports ... there may be some nasty
> surprises.
There aren't on this front.
-Mike
leslie malsbury
nothing. As my engagement ring I used my class ring when my husband proposed
to me.I knew we couldnt get anything better at the time but I thought it was
special and nice to do that. If she is going to be sooo concerned in how
much a ring costs to be looking so much sounds like me she really isnt worth
it unless you have a talk with her and if you feel that the ring is special
explain to her that you picked out one that you felt suited her and would be
happy.And if she says something that its not what she really wanted as an
engagement ring tell her she should be happy you got a ring cause I know
ALOT of people who get engaged and do not have a ring to show.In long/short
.... Its better than nothing at allnews:6Owm6.6850$Op3.3...@news4.aus1.giganews.com...
Lisa
you spent on the ring? As long as you took the time and effort to choose
one you think she'd like, shouldn't that be all that really matters? I
wouldn't expect my boyfriend to spend 2 months salary on a ring. There are
so many other things we could spend that money on...a ring is a ring. Sure,
some are bigger and more expensive, but a symbol of your love and devotion
to someone doesn't need to be big or expensive. Don't get me wrong...I'd
still want a diamond engagement ring, but I'm hoping he wouldn't choose a
huge expensive one. (If you saw my hand, you'd understand :))
As for your sports car...that's one of the things I'd rather my boyfriend
spend his money on instead of going broke on a ring. If you think about it,
you (both) get a lot of enjoyment out of the sports car. You wanted that
particular sports car, so you had to spend whatever it was the cost of it
was. She got a ring that she claims to love, yet she complains about the
price? She has no right to compare the cost of your car to the cost of her
ring. Why don't you tell her that if you had spent more on the ring, it
wouldn't be the ring she has on now. The one that she loves, the one that
expresses your love for her. Is that what she'd rather have or would she
prefer something that you chose based solely on the price tag?
I don't understand how she had to get over the way you proposed. Geez, if
she didn't like it, she could have said no, couldn't she? Same with the
ring. I don't know what your fiancee wants, but it sure doesn't seem to be
you. And do you really want to live your life with a woman who has
unreasonable expectations?
Lisa
"Anonymous" <an...@anon.net> wrote in message
news:6Owm6.6850$Op3.3...@news4.aus1.giganews.com...
>
B and B
>
> We looked around a little... to get ideas. She didn't really want to
> get involved initially. At any rate, we looked at rings enough to
> give me an idea of what she liked. I actually bought a significantly
> nicer diamond than the ones we looked at.
Anonymous
"IgOr" <igno...@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message
news:slrn99llij.e...@nospam.invalid...
> I think that generally, looking at prices is not really evidence of
> anything bad.
No, it was the reason behind the search it that concerns me.
>It is an evidence that your fiance wants to be informed.
> And a desire to be informed is a good thing.
True indeed.
>Is a silly little object worth two months of your life?
Actually more than two months, considering that DeBeers thinks in
terms of gross income, I'm sure. :-)
> Re; buying a sports car prior to proposing: a very wise move. :)
:-) I thought so too.
> * I recently (12-15 months ago) bought a sports car that I had been
> * dreaming about for 3-4 years. She mentioned that she was
> * concerned that proposing to her was worth as much as the down
> * payment on my car. That was one of the reasons she started looking
> * at diamond sites.
>
> Now that is the kind of talk that makes me want to run. Personally.
> It is very difficult to get along with someone who requires that you
> suffer needlessly and waste major resources to show your love.
> (the key words here are "needlessly" and "waste")
This is a not-uncommon theme in our relationship...The weekend after
the week I started my current job, I started to kiss her one
night and she said I hadn't paid her enough attention that week.
> * Well, I've been pretty long winded, but this whole thing has me a little
> * depressed. I know you don't have a whole lot of information from this
> * post, but I'd just like to know your gut reaction...
>
> It's mostly negative... Can you tell a little more about you
> and your fiance? No need to name names.
We're both in our mid twenties. After a year of dating she started to think
that 'I was the one' and started expecting a proposal. It didn't happen
initially,
and this created tension in our relationship. She made her expectations
clear.
At any rate, I had a proposal planned, punted due to some doubts, and spent
the next several months trying to get my bearings in the
relationship.Concurrent
with all this I started at a new job and started having some medical
problems.
About this time she started getting pretty critical of me, and when I asked
her
about it she said that the couldn't ease her criticism of me because I
hadn't
proposed. After a long discussion where she basically asked me if I had
punted
a proposal, I told her that I had (honesty, right...) and she asked me to
see a
therapist to figure out why I hadn't proposed. I didn't, but eventually did
end up
proposing. The morning of my planned proposal she basically blew up and we
had a pretty tremendous fight. We decided to stick it out through the date
I
had planned for the night, and ended up changing our plans. I then popped
the question...
Sigh... Dr. Laura would love this... on re-reading what I wrote I look
pretty damned weak.
> Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things. - George
Carlin
Lol...
-Shortly
Anonymous
>
> Anonymous <an...@anon.net> wrote in message
> news:zwAm6.21630$Yx4.7...@news6.giganews.com...
> >
> > "floridanewbie" <florid...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >
> > > Did you buy it before meeting her or was it a joint decision?
>
Doh.... I'm not thinking... I wanted it and she was supportive.
-Soon
B and B
IgOr <igno...@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message
> B and B <baboon...@prodigy.net> wrote:
> *
> * My gut reaction is to say that isn't the way one usually reacts. My
husband
> * proposed to me without the ring in his pocket..I got the ring a week
later.
> * I still cherish it. As soon as I got the ring I showed it to everyone I
>
> So did we, I proposed, and then we shopped for the ring together. I am
sure
> that I would not be able to buy anything as beautiful and fitting my wife
> by myself.
>
He bought it, and picked it out himself. What I loved about it was that it
fitted me perfectly, the size, the size of the actual diamond (1/5 of a
carat) and the band (plain, slender gold). It was my ideal engagement ring.
When we picked out wedding bands, we were again on the same
wavelength...plain gold bands (well, not totally plain, they have bordery
thingies on the edges..)mine is 4 millimeters, and his is 6. They match,
they were inexpensive (I wanted a kick ass honeymoon instead of the more
expensive rings), and they aren't annoying (rings can be annoying...it took
me a month to break myself from trying to flick my engagement ring off of my
finger when I was not actively thinking about what it was that was on my
finger).
> --
Anonymous
"Lisa" <kiwistr...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:W6Bm6.95154$GV2.21...@typhoon.san.rr.com...
> And do you really want to live your life with a woman who has
> unreasonable expectations?
No.
I haven't mentioned that I've done this before, and that relationship broke
up for different reasons (I was younger and more stupid). At any rate,
she (my ex) was ecstatic about both the ring and the proposal, both of which
were significantly less 'nice' than the more recent. (BTW, this other
relationship
was a significant source of problems with my current SO for quite a while)
-Posthaste
B and B
much
> you spent on the ring? As long as you took the time and effort to choose
> one you think she'd like, shouldn't that be all that really matters? I
> wouldn't expect my boyfriend to spend 2 months salary on a ring. There
are
> so many other things we could spend that money on...a ring is a ring.
Sure,
> some are bigger and more expensive, but a symbol of your love and devotion
> to someone doesn't need to be big or expensive. Don't get me wrong...I'd
> still want a diamond engagement ring, but I'm hoping he wouldn't choose a
> huge expensive one. (If you saw my hand, you'd understand :))
I understand! I wear a size 6 ring, and I cannot play the piano very well
at all. I think my hands resemble rat paws, but my husband swears they're
cute.
>
>
Experiment #4
She's a Champaign chick, Annie. All together now:
Eject
Eject
Eject
Eject
Eject
Eject!!!!!!
"Nena" <ann...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:A1xm6.1783$4_1.9264@NewsReader...
Sourdough
clobbered me over the head and insisted that I take it back -- too
extravagant. We had better uses for money than wasting it on expensive
rings. I probably spent the equivalent of one or 2 weeks wages on her
engagement ring.
As for the proposal...we were sitting on the couch watching TV. I had to ask
her 5 times. She kept shushing me because she was engrossed in the TV
program.
Not very romantic, perhaps, but it did the trick. We've been together 26
years.
"Anonymous" <an...@anon.net> wrote in message
news:6Owm6.6850$Op3.3...@news4.aus1.giganews.com...
>
Lisa
dating is preposterous. I've been with my boyfriend for almost 3 years and
only now can I even think about getting married to him in a few years (not
now!). We're both in our early-mid twenties too. And what you've done in
the past should stay in the past. Things are different between you and your
ex and you and your fiancee. My boyfriend married when he was 19 after
knowing a woman for 6 months. He realizes it was a mistake and I'm not
going to hold that against him (it did take a while to get to that point
tho). Sure, I don't like that he was married before and I'd be a "second
wife", but what are my other options? Being without him? Not worth it. I
love him despite his past, despite his faults, whether or not he makes a lot
of money and whether or not he spends all of that money on me. Love
shouldn't be about money. And it sure as hell shouldn't be about making up
to her for any mistakes you made in your past life (i.e. the life you led
before meeting her), as long as YOU learned from them. Makes you wonder
though, when a woman can be ecstatic about ring and a proposal from you, but
the ones you gave to your current fiancee didn't cut it, even though she got
the "better" ring and proposal. You seem very eager to please (not a bad
thing at all), but she doesn't seem to appreciate you. You can always tell
her "Honey, why don't you write out a script of how the proposal should have
gone and pick out your own ring. That way you won't have to get over
anything and you can tell all your friends about the magical, fairytale,
all-of-your-dreams-come-true way that you got engaged because what I've done
for you obviously wasn't good enough." I wonder if she'd take you up on it.
I'm betting if she was going to be completely honest, she would.
Lisa
"Anonymous" <an...@anon.net> wrote in message
news:nsBm6.21775$Yx4.7...@news6.giganews.com...
Anonymous
"Sourdough" <sour...@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:t9lphle...@corp.supernews.com...
> If I had spent 2 months' salary on an engagement ring, my wife would have
> clobbered me over the head and insisted that I take it back -- too
> extravagant.
That was the initial reason I wasn't too excited about letting her know the
price of the ring. It would either be too much, as you describe above,
or not enough. The ring I picked out was one that I could afford that I
thought was a good expression of my love. I was quite pleased with
it until a few days ago.
-Anon
Lisa
"B and B" <baboon...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:97eo4p$70ku$1...@newssvr05-en0.news.prodigy.com...
>
> I understand! I wear a size 6 ring, and I cannot play the piano very well
> at all. I think my hands resemble rat paws, but my husband swears they're
> cute.
> >
Haha...I wear a size 5 and even that slips a little in the cold! But I work
in a lab, gloves come on and off my hands all day. Could you imagine having
to deal with a huge ring while wearing gloves?!?! My little rings are pain
enough for me!!
Anonymous
>And what you've done in
> the past should stay in the past.
> [snip...]
> And it sure as hell shouldn't be about making up
> to her for any mistakes you made in your past life (i.e. the life you led
> before meeting her), as long as YOU learned from them.
That's what I thought too...
> You seem very eager to please (not a bad thing at all)
I try. Of course I want her to be happy. It's just saddening that
no matter what I do, she seems to find a way to complain. That's
one of the things about the proposal that irks me. When she
was happy with the ring but not so happy with the proposal,
I could deal with that. Not that she's questioning both, I'm
having a much harder time dealing with. Especially when I
was happy with the ring myself.
>, but she doesn't seem to appreciate you.
Yeah, I get that feeling too.
>You can always tell
> her "Honey, why don't you write out a script of how the proposal should
have
> gone and pick out your own ring.
She didn't want to pick out her ring, until I convinced her to take a look.
Even
then, she wanted it to be a suprise. As far as having a script, she came
suprisingly
close at one point...
> That way you won't have to get over
> anything and you can tell all your friends about the magical, fairytale,
> all-of-your-dreams-come-true way that you got engaged because what I've
done
> for you obviously wasn't good enough." I wonder if she'd take you up on
it.
> I'm betting if she was going to be completely honest, she would.
She'd want it to be an original creation on my part. I have to 'want' to do
it, and
the way I show that I want to do it, is by doing it! It's the same for
other people
in her life too.
This reminds me of the time we were having a _big_ fight (over
the phone) because I went out of town to visit family. The day I was to come
back, we had a blowup, and she said she was going to sleep. I decided to
stay out of town because I didn't see any point in coming home on the off
chance that she might decided to call me to her place and talk. At any
rate,
when she called back an hour later she was totally p*ssed off because I
was still out of town. Of course, the reason I was out of town to begin with
was that she encouraged me to go. It was quite a shock when I found out
that she wanted me to want to stay in town with her that weekend, and
took my trip to visit my family as a personal insult.
Perhaps the saddest thing is that one of the reasons I went out of town was
to give her space to visit with an old college friend that was visiting her.
Imagine
my suprise when I found out that a couple weeks later, as her friend was
leaving,
that I didn't give them enough space! :-)
-Anonymous
Empress of the Known Universe
<snip>
>Well, I've been pretty long winded, but this whole thing has me a little
>depressed. I know you don't have a whole lot of information from this
>post, but I'd just like to know your gut reaction...
>
>-Anon.
My initial reaction was similar to the other posters on this thread,
but also, I wonder what's really going on with your finace? I mean,
the issue isn't the issue, is it? There's something underneath.
So has she always been like this? (I think it would be fair to say
that you describe her as controlling, demanding, immature and
selfish.) Or is this new behavior for her? Have you been overlooking
her essential character? Or do you think that she's getting nervous
about the marriage and her worst side is expressing that?
Sounds like you postponed your proposal before due to reservations
about her character, what do you think?
-Empress
Lisa
you and everybody else in her life if that's how she treats them. You
obviously wanted to please her, hence the proposal and ring, right? And
it's silly for her to think that you did it the "wrong" way simply to spite
her, which she seems to think. After all, you did want to do the right
thing by her. Mind my asking why you proposed in the first place? And if
you say that it's because she was bugging you to go see a therapist because
you didn't propose at the one year mark (why was she doing that?) or because
it was what she expected, I'm going to have to kick your butt.
Lisa
"Anonymous" <an...@anon.net> wrote in message
news:V1Cm6.21857$Yx4.7...@news6.giganews.com...
Carol
just now <G>), here's my advice:
Sell the car. Take the ring back to DeBeers. Get the biggest ring, show
her the receipt. Tell her she needs to drive you around in her vehicle as
you have shown you are willing to give up everything you have to make her
happy.
Seriously, she's probably thinking that because you two had a big fight on
the day of the proposal (with her not knowing what you had planned), that
you probably only proposed to make things "nice" with her again...maybe she
is questioning the sincerity of your proposal? I don't know if this is the
case, but aft seeing that you wrote that, this idea did pop into my female
head.
--
Carol M.
"When you find a dream inside your heart, don't ever let it go...
For dreams are the tiny seeds from which tomorrow's grown."
Author unknown
Empress of the Known Universe
wrote:
>You should sit her down and just tell her that she's asking way too much of
>you and everybody else in her life if that's how she treats them. You
>obviously wanted to please her, hence the proposal and ring, right? And
>it's silly for her to think that you did it the "wrong" way simply to spite
>her, which she seems to think. After all, you did want to do the right
>thing by her. Mind my asking why you proposed in the first place? And if
>you say that it's because she was bugging you to go see a therapist because
>you didn't propose at the one year mark (why was she doing that?) or because
>it was what she expected, I'm going to have to kick your butt.
>
>Lisa
Go, Lisa! Open up a can of whoopass!
-Empress, Tickled
Anonymous
"Carol" <cos...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:xgCm6.431$421....@news2.atl...
>you are willing to give up everything you have to make her
> happy.
Isn't there a 50's love song (remade by Michael Bolton) where one of the
lines
goes something like:
"he'll give up everything and sleep in the rain if that's the way she
says it ought to be."
lol.
> Seriously, she's probably thinking that because you two had a big fight on
> the day of the proposal
It was the latest in a series of fights.
>(with her not knowing what you had planned),
She's since found out.
> that
> you probably only proposed to make things "nice" with her again...
Hardly. If that was my sole criteria, we would have been engaged long ago.
>I don't know if this is the
> case, but aft seeing that you wrote that, this idea did pop into my female
> head.
One of the reasons I came to this group. :-)
-Anon
Anonymous
>You
> obviously wanted to please her, hence the proposal and ring, right?
I wanted to marry her...
> And
> it's silly for her to think that you did it the "wrong" way simply to
spite
> her, which she seems to think.
No, my hunch is that she thinks she 'deserves more' somehow. Perhaps
she does, maybe if I were truly in love, I wouldn't be so cynical...
> Mind my asking why you proposed in the first place?
See above, I wanted to marry her. She claimed that a lot of our difficulties
(her being overly critical/demanding) were the result of my not having
proposed. Apparantly, the thought process may have gone something like
"he hasn't proposed, therefore he either isn't ready to marry me, or is not
capable of planning a proposal, therefore I don't respect him enough to give
him his space". At any rate, I proposed knowing that I loved her, and
willing
to go on faith that what she said was the truth.
> And if
> you say that it's because she was bugging you to go see a therapist
because
> you didn't propose at the one year mark (why was she doing that?)
I have no idea. It's perhaps the most offensive thing to come of all this.
Perhaps it was easier to believe that I needed mental help than anything
else. This was about the same time she was telling me that she couldn't
be as supportive of me and my career as I would've liked, due to the
lack of a proposal. I thought love was unconditional, somehow.
> or because
> it was what she expected, I'm going to have to kick your butt.
No, I expected it too. I also expected that on the other side, we'd regain
some of what we lost in the proposal wars. To be totally honest, we did,
but not completely, as this whole car/ring nonsense seems to indicate.
sigh...
-Anonymous
Anonymous
"Empress of the Known Universe" <empre...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3a9aed86...@news.supernews.com...
> So has she always been like this?
In retrospect, perhaps yes. It was particularly bad when it came time
to discuss my ex. That almost ended it (that I had an ex-fiance), and
it's still an issue. I understand that some of this is normal, but we
went through what seems like an awful lot of pain over my past.
> Have you been overlooking her essential character?
It's easy for me to rationalize individual events, and perhaps not see the
overall picture.
> Sounds like you postponed your proposal before due to reservations
> about her character, what do you think?
Oh yeah... I do agree.
-Anon
floridanewbie
<snip>
>One of the reasons I came to this group. :-)
As I look at the fit of that ring on her finger, I think I'd get it
back and have the jeweler make an adjustment ... you can return it to
her when the jeweler is done ... in a few months if you decide to go
through with this marriage.
Seriously, you may want to start reading alt.support.divorce because
you are not describing a very good foundation upon which to build a
lasting relationship. She may just need more time to mature or she
may be the wrong person for you ... or she may be absolutely perfect.
Don't let a bunch of strangers influence you too much. A live,
breathing counselor might help you with this and a good counselor will
be a lot cheaper than a messy divorce.
Floridanewbie
Lisa
questioning your love for her now? Why are you questioning her love for you
now? As for the you wanting to marry her...sounds to me like she pushed you
into it. I think if I were to be so bitchy to my boyfriend, he would go
running away. I certainly don't think that's reason for a proposal. And
how could you possibly think that she thinks she should deserve more? What
more could she hope for?? A mind reader?!?! You do as she asks, but not
what she wants, so you're somehow at fault? She's playing some mean mind
games with you.
You wanna know how I'm seeing it right now? It's kinda mean, but...here
goes. I think that you're never going to be good enough for her. Before
she could pin it on the lack of a proposal, but since you've now given her a
proposal, so things should be all good, right? Oops, just when you kissed
the boo-boo and made it better, she's got something else that you didn't do
right! HOW DARE YOU! She's wanted this proposal for a whole year (or more)
and then you go and give it to her, but you did it wrong! *Slap in the
head* Don't you realize that she deserves more than the man she loves
offering her a ring and proposing to spend the rest of his life with her?
Everything was supposed to be perfect, down to the tie you were supposed to
wear when you proposed. And the car! Oh my god the car!!! How dare you
even think of yourself at a time like this? Didn't you know that she's
supposed to mean more to you than anything? More than your career, more
than your job, more than your sense of sanity, definitely more than anything
you could be dreaming about!
Sounds kinda messed up, doesn't it?
Lisa
"Anonymous" <an...@anon.net> wrote in message
news:0JCm6.21981$Yx4.8...@news6.giganews.com...
JWB
all. Her priorities are totally screwed.
Run fast. Run far.
--
JWB
remove spamkiller to reply via e-mail
"Anonymous" <an...@anon.net> wrote in message
news:6Owm6.6850$Op3.3...@news4.aus1.giganews.com...
>
> Hi, sorry for the anon. post, I have my reasons though...
>
> I'm newly engaged (several months), and need a gut check on some
> of my emotions. The morning after we got engaged, my fiancee told
> me that she was 'having to get over' the way I proposed. We had
> been dating for a while, and she apparantly expected something more
> elaborate than what I ended up doing. This, I had pretty much
> gotten over when I found out this weekend that she had been looking
> on some diamond sites to figure out how much her engagement ring
> cost, and that she didn't think I had spent two months salary. (FWIW,
> my job situation was pretty complicated at the time, but I did think
> the ring was a splurge. It's easily 50-60% more than the rings she
> and I had looked at together.) All this happened long after we pretty
> much agreed that it didn't really matter what the ring cost, as long
> as we were both happy.
>
> I guess the only two other germane things to mention are:
>
> She's been pretty caught up with the way the ring compares
> to other people around her that have gotten engaged.
>
> I recently (12-15 months ago) bought a sports car that I had been
> dreaming about for 3-4 years. She mentioned that she was
> concerned that proposing to her was worth as much as the down
> payment on my car. That was one of the reasons she started looking
> at diamond sites.
>
>
JWB
thing now.
--
JWB
remove spamkiller to reply via e-mail
"Anonymous" <an...@anon.net> wrote in message
news:LMCm6.21989$Yx4.8...@news6.giganews.com...
Icarus
Anonymous wrote:
> A couple years. That's actually one of the problems. She got
> ready for a proposal about a year into the relationship, and the fact
> that I hadn't proposed caused serious problems. At one point she
> asked me to see a therapist to investigate why I hadn't proposed
> yet.
Ok, there was a little room for doubt before from what little you said
in your original post that her priorities were mixed up. I think you
just removed it. This woman's priority was to get married. This
doesn't mean that she doesn't care for you... but her priority doesn't
appear to be to have a loving relationship with you. She had her eyes
dead-set on getting married. She wanted the ring, the whole shebang and
because you weren't ready to give it to her when SHE wanted it, YOU need
therapy? That is manipulative, controlling, and WRONG IMO.
I STRONGLY suggest you don't start making wedding plans yet if you
haven't already started. I STRONGLY suggest that you sit down with her
and have some serious talks about what exactly her priorities are. and
I strongly suggest that if there is any therapy going on, it is JOINT
counseling to be sure you are both in this for the same reasons.
There are huge warning bells going off here as you can tell from all the
responses you are getting to your post. Please heed them.
icarus
Icarus
Anonymous wrote:
> I wanted to marry her...
Big question... and don't just whip out some trite "because I love her
and want to be with her answer" here... really think about this.
Why do you want to marry her? You can take this as a rhetorical
question if you like. You might benefit from simply thinking about it.
I suggest you also ask her why she wants to marry you... and advise her
to also stop and really think about her answer.
Compare your answers.
It will tell you a lot... all assuming that you are BOTH completely
honest.
icarus
Larry Kessler
>She'd want it to be an original creation on my part. I have to 'want' to do
>it, and the way I show that I want to do it, is by doing it! It's the same for
>other people in her life too.
This sounds like a seriously narcissistic woman. She pressures you
for a year to get married, then insists the proposal be a completely
spontaneous, romantic and self-motivated gesture, on the evening after
you and she have had a big fight?
>This reminds me of the time we were having a _big_ fight (over the
>phone) because I went out of town to visit family. The day I was to come
>back, we had a blowup, and she said she was going to sleep. I decided to
>stay out of town because I didn't see any point in coming home on the off
>chance that she might decided to call me to her place and talk. At any rate,
>when she called back an hour later she was totally p*ssed off because I
>was still out of town. Of course, the reason I was out of town to begin with
>was that she encouraged me to go. It was quite a shock when I found out
>that she wanted me to want to stay in town with her that weekend, and
>took my trip to visit my family as a personal insult.
She's jerking you around bigtime. Rethink this marriage.
>Perhaps the saddest thing is that one of the reasons I went out of town was
>to give her space to visit with an old college friend that was visiting her.
>Imagine my suprise when I found out that a couple weeks later, as her friend
>was leaving, that I didn't give them enough space! :-)
Male or female friend?
mst
<6Owm6.6850$Op3.3...@news4.aus1.giganews.com>...
> She's been pretty caught up with the way the ring compares
> to other people around her that have gotten engaged.
I'm sorry, but women like your fiance give all of us a bad name.
From the pressure for a proposal, suggesting you go to therapy, the constant
nagging criticism, and now the fuss over the price of the ring...it
certainly seems that her priorities are completely screwed up.
I've read this whole thread, and I can't see why you WOULD propose to her.
What makes you think you love her to begin with?
--
Teri
++++
"Well, since you got here by not thinking, it seems reasonable
to expect that, in order to get out, you must start thinking."
Tock the Watchdog
De mortuis nil nisi bonum.
Nette
marry her. She is already measuring "hers" and "his". Good Lord if you
marry her she will knit pick you to death.
My proposal wasn't romantic AT ALL and I didn't get an engagement ring until
we were married 2 years. Did I care? No! Do I care now that we have been
married 12 years? NO! I didn't give a rats butt if I even had a wedding.
I wanted to be his wife more than anything in the world. My mom talked me
into a wedding and I'm very glad I did it because I now have a beautiful
wedding gown to pass down to my daughter. But it didn't make our marriage
any better or worse. By the way....when I did get that engagement
ring....it was HARDLY 2 months salary. That's a gauge set by jewelry
stores. That's nuts. My ring is .26 carat round solitaire on a plain 14kt
band soldered to another plain 14kt band. No fuss no muss. It is just
something to wear to show I'm married. My husband's band was a 10kt gold
plain band. Last year for Christmas I bought him a wider band with "comfort
fit" and had "Lynette and Tom Always" engraved in it. I'm wearing his other
band on a gold chain around my neck now. My ring cost $500 and I've been
having it for 10 years. I have no desire for another ring. My desire is
for a little boy that looks just like my husband. My husband is priority to
me. Your fiancée has set her priority on material things. Those kinds of
girls walk if you ever have money problems or if a bigger wallet comes
along.
Nette
"Anonymous" <an...@anon.net> wrote in message
news:6Owm6.6850$Op3.3...@news4.aus1.giganews.com...
>
> Hi, sorry for the anon. post, I have my reasons though...
>
> I'm newly engaged (several months), and need a gut check on some
> of my emotions. The morning after we got engaged, my fiancee told
> me that she was 'having to get over' the way I proposed. We had
> been dating for a while, and she apparantly expected something more
> elaborate than what I ended up doing. This, I had pretty much
> gotten over when I found out this weekend that she had been looking
> on some diamond sites to figure out how much her engagement ring
> cost, and that she didn't think I had spent two months salary. (FWIW,
> my job situation was pretty complicated at the time, but I did think
> the ring was a splurge. It's easily 50-60% more than the rings she
> and I had looked at together.) All this happened long after we pretty
> much agreed that it didn't really matter what the ring cost, as long
> as we were both happy.
>
> I guess the only two other germane things to mention are:
>
> She's been pretty caught up with the way the ring compares
> to other people around her that have gotten engaged.
>
B and B
> clobbered me over the head and insisted that I take it back -- too
> extravagant. We had better uses for money than wasting it on expensive
> rings. I probably spent the equivalent of one or 2 weeks wages on her
> engagement ring.
>
> As for the proposal...we were sitting on the couch watching TV. I had to
ask
> her 5 times. She kept shushing me because she was engrossed in the TV
> program.
>
> Not very romantic, perhaps, but it did the trick. We've been together 26
> years.
You know...until the part where you said you had been together 26 years, it
sounded very familiar. My husband proposed (sans ring) on an "unofficial
date" of ours (one of those where he just dropped by and we had pizza and
watched tv at his place). I remember he kept saying "honey..I have a
question..." and I was like SHHH!.. So, then the commercial came on and he
grabbed my hand and put it on his chest, so I looked over to ask if he was
crazy or something. I was SOOO surprised. A week later he took me to
dinner at "our" special restaurant and presented the ring and we actually
set the date right then. So, I guess I got a proposal and a follow up
proposal.
>
B and B
I used to work as a CNA, and even this ring popped through a pair of gloves
once when I was bathing a particularly active patient. Yech!
>
>
DZappy
money or is she in it for the right reasons? If for the right reasons, you
could give her a cigar wrapper and she'd love it! Its about happiness of
one another and not what she/he can provide for the other! (isn't it?)
DZappy
Lisa
Hope you washed your ring real good! :)
subversionmania
reading something written by a stranger. Why the hell would you want to marry a
money-grubbing gold-digging bitch?
If you go through with this marriage, you will very richly deserve the torment
that awaits you.
Sourdough
> She got
> ready for a proposal about a year into the relationship, and the fact
> that I hadn't proposed caused serious problems. At one point she
> asked me to see a therapist to investigate why I hadn't proposed
> yet.
Whoa! What!? Big danger sign here.
> > What is the two month's salary thing? Is that some bullshit jewelers
> > try to guilt you with?
>
> It's DeBeers, but the idea's the same.
This is a relatively recent marketing ploy by DeBeers. It is definitely NOT
a tradition.
> > are her folks rich enough to induge her tastes
>
> Not really. They're going to help, but they're in somewhat of a bind. At
any
> rate, she and I (read my savings) will foot the bulk of the bill. At any
> rate,
> she's upset because a lot of the wedding's burden (travel, etc.) is on her
> folks,
> while mine are in a better position.
Interesting that she has a problem with you not spending enough on the ring,
a NON-TRADITIONAL marketing ploy by DeBeers, then turns around and is upset
because your folks aren't chipping in enough on the wedding. Isn't it
traditionally the wife's family that pays for the wedding? The whole thing?
Why doesn't she want to follow that tradition?
I think her priorities are mixed up.
Anonymous
"Icarus" <ica...@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3A9B0472...@nc.rr.com...
> I think you
> just removed it. This woman's priority was to get married. This
> doesn't mean that she doesn't care for you... but her priority doesn't
> appear to be to have a loving relationship with you.
I hadn't thought of it that way, but I see what you mean...
> She had her eyes dead-set on getting married.
The thing that makes this somewhat difficult to accept for me is
that she wasn't really looking until I came around.
> There are huge warning bells going off here as you can tell from all the
> responses you are getting to your post.
I feel like the schmuck who 'asks the audience' in Millionaire on the
obvious
question... and the audience comes back 98% in favor of answer A. I had no
idea that responses would be so dramatically biased. In the day to day
process of living, I'm pretty easy going, and it's easy to let individual
things
not matter, and not see the bigger picture.
Actualy, rereading some of my posts has been enlightening in and of itself.
-Anon
Anonymous
"leslie malsbury" <blue...@satx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:0HAm6.13376$D9.27...@typhoon.austin.rr.com...
> Im my opinion she should be happy with what she got. Its better then
> nothing.
That's blunt, but I understand where you're coming from.
-Anon
Anonymous
> careful here, while your discussions may end up with an "all is well,"
> materialistic people [hell, all people...] build resentments.
That's my biggest fear. I have the distinct feeling that she's already
resenting the car. Over dinner tonight she was jutifying my ability to
spend the money on the car (1.5 years) ago based on my changing
financial position.
-Mike
Anonymous
> Isn't it traditionally the wife's family that pays for the wedding?
Yes.
> The whole thing?
There are things that don't traditionaly fall under the bride's family's
onus. Namely the engagement ring, honeymoon, rehersal dinner, and
bride's wedding ring.
> Why doesn't she want to follow that tradition?
Because her parents have gone through a stretch of hard times fairly
recently, and they have other, significant financial burdens.
-Anon
mst
> A couple years. That's actually one of the problems. She got
>ready for a proposal about a year into the relationship, and the fact
>that I hadn't proposed caused serious problems. At one point she
>asked me to see a therapist to investigate why I hadn't proposed
>yet.
If she wanted to get married so damned bad, why didn't SHE propose to YOU?
I can't STAND manipulative, unliberated women.
Anonymous
"IgOr" <igno...@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message
news:slrn99m91s.g...@nospam.invalid...
> Anonymous <an...@anon.net> wrote:
> * > Now that is the kind of talk that makes me want to run. Personally.
> * > It is very difficult to get along with someone who requires that you
> * > suffer needlessly and waste major resources to show your love.
> * > (the key words here are "needlessly" and "waste")
> *
> * This is a not-uncommon theme in our relationship...The weekend after
> * the week I started my current job, I started to kiss her one
> * night and she said I hadn't paid her enough attention that week.
>
> Um, I do not see the connection.
I saw the point when I wrote it... I think I was in a rush and mistakenly
edited out whatever the germane part was.
> Look, I was not born in this country, but asking someone to see a
> shrink/therapist because they have not proposed seems to be at least
> bizarre to me.
It was to assess (sp?) any 'fear of commitment' I might have had.
> Are you positive that you are proposing because you love her
no.
-Anon
Sourdough
> The weekend after
> the week I started my current job, I started to kiss her one
It sounds to me like there is a large imbalance of power in your
relationship. You have posted a lot about her expectations of you, and your
efforts to meet them. What about her? How does she go out of her way to
please you?
I suspect that the feeling that you have now -- that feeling of somehow not
quite measuring up to her expectations -- will only intensify with time.
Sorry, but this doesn't sound healthy to me.
Anonymous
> You "wanted to marry her." Is that still what you want?
I dunno.
> Why are you
> questioning your love for her now?
Because that which I thought would change did not.
> Why are you questioning her love for you
> now?
I'm not sure what she sees in me. If everything major I do in our
relationship
is as she makes it out to be, I would have dumped me a long time ago.
> I think if I were to be so bitchy to my boyfriend, he would go
> running away. I certainly don't think that's reason for a proposal.
At some point, I thought I wanted to marry her. I guess I got so tied up in
trying to defend my lack of a proposal that I lost track of some of the
bigger issues, and just remembered my original thought.
> And
> how could you possibly think that she thinks she should deserve more?
What
> more could she hope for?? A mind reader?!?! You do as she asks, but not
> what she wants, so you're somehow at fault?
I couldn't make sense of it either. Basically, I think that this stems from
a
desire that I want to do what she wants. If she asks, then I obviously
didn't want to do whatever it is.
It doesn't make that much sense to me either.
> She's playing some mean mind games with you.
I've always wondered what people meant by mind games. Now I think
I'm developing an understanding of the term.
> You wanna know how I'm seeing it right now?
That's why I came here.
[description snipped]
> Sounds kinda messed up, doesn't it?
Yes.
-Anonymous
Anonymous
> I used to work as a CNA,
What's a CNA? Just curious.
-Anon
Anonymous
"JWB" <jwbspamk...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:SkDm6.2379$l5.21...@newsfeed1.thebiz.net...
> I hate to say this, but there is no chance of you two making it. None at
> all. Her priorities are totally screwed.
Wow...
-Anon
Anonymous
"mst" <ter...@homey.com> wrote in message
news:W_Dm6.31409$5M5.1...@news1.frmt1.sfba.home.com...
> I've read this whole thread, and I can't see why you WOULD propose to her.
> What makes you think you love her to begin with?
I'm pretty easy going... it's too easy for me to blow things off as
non-issues, and not
get too upset. As a result, it's pretty easy to miss the cloud for the
silver lining.
-Soon
Sourdough
> I try. Of course I want her to be happy. It's just saddening that
> no matter what I do, she seems to find a way to complain.
(snip)
> This reminds me of the time we were having a _big_ fight (over
> the phone) because I went out of town to visit family. The day I was to
come
> back, we had a blowup, and she said she was going to sleep. I decided to
> stay out of town because I didn't see any point in coming home on the off
> chance that she might decided to call me to her place and talk. At any
> rate,
> when she called back an hour later she was totally p*ssed off because I
> was still out of town. Of course, the reason I was out of town to begin
with
> was that she encouraged me to go. It was quite a shock when I found out
> that she wanted me to want to stay in town with her that weekend, and
> took my trip to visit my family as a personal insult.
>
was
> to give her space to visit with an old college friend that was visiting
her.
> Imagine
> my suprise when I found out that a couple weeks later, as her friend was
> leaving,
> that I didn't give them enough space! :-)
I'm going to repeat what I said above ... Her attempts to make you feel
inadequate will probably get worse over time. Your resentment will continue
to grow.
I think that the two of you had better stop and reexamine your relationship.
I agree with what someone else said earlier; that you are not the priority
in this relationship. She wants to be *married* more than she wants to be
married *to you*.
Anonymous
"subversionmania" <subversionm...@newsranger.com> wrote in message
news:TuFm6.1251$aw5....@www.newsranger.com...
> God damn, son, GET OUT NOW!!! Reread your post objectively, as if you
were
> reading something written by a stranger.
I'm going to do that tonight...
> If you go through with this marriage, you will very richly deserve the
torment
> that awaits you.
Yeah, part of the problem here might well be my own weakness in the front
of all this crap.
-unsigned
Sourdough
> No, my hunch is that she thinks she 'deserves more' somehow. Perhaps
> she does, maybe if I were truly in love, I wouldn't be so cynical...
Who is speaking here? You or her?
Anonymous
"Cat O'Blivion" <chemic...@attic.mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3A9BEFE8...@attic.mindspring.com...
> First of all, I agree with the vast majority of posters who have said that
> your fiancee's priorities seem pretty screwed up,
I largely agree...
> and that it is not a good
> sign that she has all of these unspoken expectations of you, and gets
upset
> when you fail to read her mind.
...but this is what ultimately upsets me the most.
> Second, the "two months' salary rule" is not an engagement tradition. It
is
> a marketing ploy, brought to us by the folks at DeBeers, who obviously
have
> a vested interest in selling the priciest diamonds they can.
They certainly do. Are you aware of the lengths they go to to understand
synthetic diamonds? Technology exists to consistently _make_ diamonds
in the 10-20 carat range. DeBeer's has developed a test to cull these out
based on certain flourescence characteristics that differ in the artificial
gem.
There's no visible difference otherwise unless you have an expensive test
system.
> Engagement is about planning to spend the rest of your life with someone;
> it's not about diamonds, and it's definitely not about how much money he's
> willing to spend on a token of affection.
Well put.
> > All this happened long after we pretty
> > much agreed that it didn't really matter what the ring cost, as long
> > as we were both happy.
>
> This sounds like another one of those mind games at which your fiancee
> excels.
I didn't see it, but I do see the parallel now that you being it up. The
expectation
would have been 'really expensive diamond' because I'd want to show her my
love. The signals she sent out as we looked at rings were to be ignored in
the
light of my desire to show her that she was worth more than the car. Viewed
like this I can exactly see parallels between this and other events!!!
> Sure, it didn't matter what the ring cost, as long as you both were
> happy, but because she didn't get a more expensive diamond, she's not
happy;
> you lose. You can never win with a person like this. She will continue
to
> change the rules so that you are always in the wrong.
Any chance of this changing?
> Is this really what you want out of a marriage?
No!
> > She's been pretty caught up with the way the ring compares
> > to other people around her that have gotten engaged.
>
> I don't understand this mindset at all.
It might stem from an insecurity in my commitment to her. Rather than
focusing on the relationship, it's a focus on visible, easily comparable
symbols.
> I would agree with the other
> posters who have said that it seems like she's more concerned with getting
> married than she is with her relationship *to you*.
I liked that perspective too.
> For you, you might want to
> consider counselling, both individually (so you can figure out what you
want
> out of a relationship) and as a couple (so you can figure out if you're
> actually going to be able to work well as a team) before making a more
> permanent commitment.
This is probably the most sensible course of action. If I hadn't already
proposed,
it _might_ be possible.
-anon
John Royer
This is a ME,ME,ME kind of female.
Here's a BIG HINT.....start wearing condoms because if she even gets a HINT
that you might back out SHE WILL GET PREGNANT.
I'm actually surprised the Dr.Webb hasn't told you the same this is exactly
the type of woman he's talking about.
LISTEN TO YOUR BIG BRAIN IT'S TELLING YOU WHAT TO DO
John Royer
want to find yourself in is, standing at the altar, watching your soon to be
bride walk down the aisle and think to yourself, "I don't want to be here"
It happened to me, cause I wasn't strong enough to back out. The marriage
lasted two years, one year 364 days too long. I thought I could change her.
MISTAKE!!!!
My wife and I 18 years into our marriage can't even find our wedding rings.
I'm sure they are around somewhere but when I look at my hand I see it
anyway.
"Anonymous" <an...@anon.net> wrote in message
news:orPm6.24129$Yx4.8...@news6.giganews.com...
>
> "Jenni" <numbat...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:numbat_ex_oz-2...@news.cncdsl.com...
> > Igor has it right.
> >
> > Just one more thing you need to know - she won't change.
>
> Even if she said she would, after the propoal?
>
> > If that thought makes you shudder, don't get married.
>
> Actually, it does...
>
> -Mike
>
>
Searcher
Anonymous wrote in message ...
>
>> Why don't you come right out and ask her what she thinks, what she dreams
>of
>> for a wedding,
>
>We've talked about this. She isn't too excited with the amount we've
>budgeted (its pushing her upper limit) but for the ceremony/reception
>we want, it's just sufficient. As far as ceremony paramaters go, we've
>discussed this one too, and have reached an agreement.
>
>-anon
It actually sounds like you two are doing pretty well in the communication
department. Keep that up and improve on it. With what I have read I only
have a couple possible suggestions:
1. She sounds real concerned with finances... and it sounds more security
based than greed. To avoid resentments, discussion is key. You might ask her
how she would make the big purchases or what she would do different from
you. Careful to let her know, asking her advice doesn't mean you'll follow
it. She may have some good advice though. More important, it opens up the
discussion and it displays trust in your partners opinion. It sounds like
you may already be doing this.
2. Let her know your concerns about her financial attitude... how many times
have we heard someone say, "I didn't know you felt like that." What feelings
do you have that she doesn't know about, but should? and vice-versa? Talking
finances would be a good opportunity to jump into resentment concerns on
both sides.
You two have a great opportunity... best wishes to you!
__
-=<{:::jSl:::}>=-
http://www.geocities.com/tsjogolo
wayne rasmussen
would rethink the proposal. This doesn't sound like the type of gal who has the
same values I do.
Nena wrote:
> "Anonymous" <an...@anon.net> wrote in message
> news:tcxm6.20854$Yx4.7...@news6.giganews.com...
> >
> > "Nena" <ann...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > I think we should just
> > Dr_Webb handle this one....
> >
> > Who or What is Dr_Webb? I've found a couple online
> > refs, but not enough to know for sure what you mean.
>
> Sorry, I just couldn't resist.
> Dr_Webb is our troll, who drops by ever so often to enlighten us with some
> theories about money grabbing bitches. Even though we have to share him with
> a few other newsgroups, he still contributes to everybodys amusement with
> his generalisations about women who are just after your money and destroy
> you emotionally.
>
> but now to your situation:
> I think you should think long and hard about her reaction. That engagement
> ring was a gift, given to her by you because you want to spend the rest of
> your life with her. It's a symbol of your love.
>
> Now i am asking you: Can you put a price on love, on commitment ?
>
> If she loves you would she have cared about the price of the ring or would
> the fact that you want to make that commitment to her just make her
> incredibly happy?
> If she loved you , wouldn't she have thought about how much she could hurt
> you by critisizing the gift you gave her out of love?
>
> When my ex-husband proposed to me, he didn't even have a ring. And you know
> what? I didn't even notice! I was so completely over the moon, that he
> wanted to spend his life with me, that he loved me so much, that he wanted
> to have this kind of commitment with me, that I never even thought about the
> ring until he gave it to me a few weeks later. This was 16 years ago and I
> still don't have the faintest idea how much this ring is worth.
>
> If the excitement about the ring and the wedding is stronger than the
> excitement about the marriage, I would see this a a very bad sign.
> Either she is completly shallow, or very, very young ( saying that though I
> was only 20 when I was proposed to) or really just a materialisticand self
> centered woman.
>
> The reason I asked you what you got from her, was just to make you think
> about the purpose of the ring. No, it is not a tradition, but boy, isn't it
> exciting when you are so in love with each other that you can surprise each
> other with little things and little gifts and know that they will be
> appreciated?
> Knowing that everytime you do something special for her you will get
> rewarded with a smile, a sparkle in her eyes, a hug and excitement?
> Where do you see yourself with her 5 years down the road?
> I have a bad feeling, that you will have a nagging wife at home, who can't
> be pleased with anything.
>
> It's not too late to change your mind. You may even get a refund on that
> ring......
>
> Nena
>
> "Günstige Winde kann nur der nutzen, der weiß, wohin er will"
wayne rasmussen
Anonymous wrote:
> "B and B" <baboon...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:97e8gn$3hmu$1...@newssvr06-en0.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > Anonymous <an...@anon.net> wrote in message
> > news:6Owm6.6850$Op3.3...@news4.aus1.giganews.com...
> > >
> > > Hi, sorry for the anon. post, I have my reasons though...
> > >
> > > I'm newly engaged (several months), and need a gut check on some
> > > of my emotions. The morning after we got engaged, my fiancee told
> > > me that she was 'having to get over' the way I proposed.
> >
> > Huh? Unless you said "Listen here, skank, I think you and me, we need to
> > make this relationship legal. How about getting married?" , before
> slipping
> > a skull ring on her finger, then I can't imagine what she would need to
> get
> > over.
>
> Neither can I... I thought it was pretty romantic myself... I think she
> thought
> it was romantic too, but like I said, she said that she needed to get over
> it, which
> I found pretty amazing.
>
> > We had
> > > been dating for a while, and she apparantly expected something more
> > > elaborate than what I ended up doing.
> >
> > Oh. I see. Did you forget the part where you take her to the beach or
> the
> > place where you had your first date and present her with 3 dozen long stem
> > roses and a 4 carat solitaire while 15 of your closest friends join in and
> > sing "My Girl" ?
>
> More or less...
>
> > This, I had pretty much
> > > gotten over when I found out this weekend that she had been looking
> > > on some diamond sites to figure out how much her engagement ring
> > > cost, and that she didn't think I had spent two months salary.
> >
> > I know for a fact that my husband didn't. In fact, I know that he spent a
> > paycheck on it. I still love it to death and you will never get it off my
> > finger.
>
> I think she actually likes the ring I gave her, but the whole checking out
> the price/comaring it against the car thing really bothers me. Maybe she
> does like it, but why would she go to such lengths on the price.She was
> even somewhat startled that I didn't pay for it in one chunk.
>
Dude, anyway you look at it, she put a dig into you. It is insulting you and
you
don't even understand it.
>
> > > She's been pretty caught up with the way the ring compares
> > > to other people around her that have gotten engaged.
> >
> > Why? Did it come out of a gumball machine? Or a box of cracker jacks?
>
> Trust me, it's a nice ring. :-)
That makes the situation even worse. You need to step back from your emotions
and think hard about what you are going to do.
>
>
>
> > Is she at all excited about the actual wedding/life together part of it or
> is
> > she only hung up on her ring?
>
> I know she's excited about the wedding.
Don't let that confuse the issue. She wants to get married. Maybe to anyone
who comes along. The issue is the fact that she made a statement about getting
over it. Don't let yourself get side tracked by smoke and mirrors. Focus on
that specific thing. Think of a clever way to discuss it with her.
> I think she's excited about the
> life together stuff.
>
> > My gut reaction is to say that isn't the way one usually reacts.
>
> That's kind of what I was thinking.
More than a reaction. A calculated statement. What was the intention?
>
> > As soon as I got the ring I showed it to everyone I knew.
>
> She's done that.
>
> > A few of my friends have been engaged since them. Yes, some of
> > their rings are bigger.
>
> Same thing here...
>
> > I wouldn't trade with them no matter what.
>
> She'd say the same thing. 90% of her actions indicate that she's really
> happy. The other 10% make me wonder.
You know, airbags in cars are really great. 99.999% percent of the time they
are great just sitting in the little hole they were installed in. That is
natural. What really counts is what happens when you need the airbags.
Something goes for your spouse, when things are nice and easy it is nice and
easy to have a good time. But when things get serious or understress (such as
during change) you can really tell where things stand. It is often how people
treat you at their worst that matters most.
wayne rasmussen
Anonymous wrote:
> "momalot" <dadalot...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3A9AAA48...@hotmail.com...
> > How long have you known your fiance?
>
> somewhat more than 2 years.
>
> > What I am getting at is, do you really
> > know her and what she expects out of a relationship, both short term and
> > long term plans?
>
> I thought so. We've talked in particular about the first year or two.
>
> > For me to read your post, because I don't know more, I would assume from
> > your tone that she just wants to be married, and have a big ring, to show
> > off to her friends. It sounds like marriage is just something to show off
> to
> > her.
>
> She hadn't been planning on in until I came along. :-
Bull. A lot of women spend a lot of time dreaming of their wedding day.
Sounds to me you don't want to face something here. What come here to get
peoples gut reaction then defend her so much? What is it you really want from
this group????
>
>
> > In this case, I think your gut is telling you something,
> > that your heart doesn't.
>
> Perhaps so... sigh...
>
> -Anon
Empress of the Known Universe
>
>I am curious how much these artificial big diamonds cost. Maybe I'll buy
>one if they are cheap.
>
Hey, you know what they say... diamonds are forever. Cubic zirconium,
6 months... tops.
-Empress
wayne rasmussen
Anonymous wrote:
> "Icarus" <ica...@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:3A9B0472...@nc.rr.com...
> > I think you
> > just removed it. This woman's priority was to get married. This
> > doesn't mean that she doesn't care for you... but her priority doesn't
> > appear to be to have a loving relationship with you.
>
> I hadn't thought of it that way, but I see what you mean...
>
> > She had her eyes dead-set on getting married.
>
> The thing that makes this somewhat difficult to accept for me is
> that she wasn't really looking until I came around.
What makes you say that? Did she say that at one time? Do you believe
everything people tell you?
wayne rasmussen
IgOr wrote:
> Anonymous <an...@anon.net> wrote:
> *
> * Hi, sorry for the anon. post, I have my reasons though...
> *
> * I'm newly engaged (several months), and need a gut check on some
> * of my emotions. The morning after we got engaged, my fiancee told
> * me that she was 'having to get over' the way I proposed. We had
> * been dating for a while, and she apparantly expected something more
> * elaborate than what I ended up doing. This, I had pretty much
> * gotten over when I found out this weekend that she had been looking
> * on some diamond sites to figure out how much her engagement ring
> * cost, and that she didn't think I had spent two months salary. (FWIW,
> * my job situation was pretty complicated at the time, but I did think
> * the ring was a splurge. It's easily 50-60% more than the rings she
> * and I had looked at together.) All this happened long after we pretty
> * much agreed that it didn't really matter what the ring cost, as long
> * as we were both happy.
> *
> * I guess the only two other germane things to mention are:
> *
> * She's been pretty caught up with the way the ring compares
> * to other people around her that have gotten engaged.
>
> I think that generally, looking at prices is not really evidence of
> anything bad. It is an evidence that your fiance wants to be informed.
> And a desire to be informed is a good thing
And rubbing his nose it in is...
>
>
wayne rasmussen
Anonymous wrote:
it may be blunt, but, good communications skills tries to make sure that
both people understand the same thing. The exact same thing. That often
means to be direct or have a bunch of followup questions that get things
specific. If you are avoiding this type of communication and
clarification, I forsee problems...
Lisa
and was disappointed. Gruesome bits didn't make up for the rest of the
movie, in my opinion. Email me with the book ending, please!!! :)
Lisa
"Empress of the Known Universe" <empre...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3a9bf8ed...@news.supernews.com...
> On Tue, 27 Feb 2001 11:38:12 -0600, "Anonymous" <an...@anon.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >Christian doctrine regarding marriage... I actually prefer to think of it
> >terms of
> >orbital dynamics. Some binary stars revolve around a common central
point,
> >in some systems, one star (or planet) revolves around the other. I
> >personally
> >prefer the former but have something closer to the latter.
>
> Oh, wow. That's really romantic! I like that a lot.
>
> >At any rate, I
> >think
> >what you're saying is that a certain space is a good thing, and to that I
> >wholeheartedly agree.
> >
> >> -Empress Lechter
> >
> >Have you seen Hannibal? It has its moments, but in general was somewhat
> >disappointing to me.
> >
> >-anon
>
> I haven't seen the movie, but I read the book. I got a kick out of
> it, sick - I know - but I just see it as a comic book. For really
> gruesome stuff, there's always reality. The book wasn't quite as
> intense, psychologically, as the original, but still interesting.
>
> I understand they changed the ending for the movie. At the end of the
> book, Hannibal and Clarice...
>
> Never mind. I wouldn't want to give it away!
>
> -Empress
>
> P.S. You know, an important theory in marital therapy (I think it's
> sort of neo-Freudian, like Harville Hendrix Imago therapy) is that two
> people select each other in a deeply unconscious but powerful way that
> can lead to healing all of their personal deficiencies, or issues or
> wounds (whatever). If that's the case, you and your fiance's best
> chance to work out your issues (for her, controlling and for you,
> passive acceptance, maybe, and for both of you, difficulty recognizing
> your deepest feelings) is to do it together. Feel like I should
> mention that, after all we're supposed to be a marriage support group,
> and we're kind of acting like a pack of piranhas, ripping the flesh
> from our sacrificial victim....
>
> Heh. Feeling a little guilty, I guess. (Now Hannibal wouldn't feel
> that way, would he?)
Lisa
actions and how they affect you? Because if you two are going to be
together forever, you need to do these things. If you can't do them, you
aren't as committed, or ready to be as committed, as you seem to think. In
this thread, you seem to be on the side of postponing the marriage, at the
very least. In other threads, you talk about ending the engagement would be
the worst thing you could possibly do. The thing is...would ending the
engagement be bad for you or for her? Would getting married be good for you
or her? Don't keep expecting her to change because you've given her what
she wants. She'll find more to want, more reason to make you feel inferior.
You don't want to break the engagement because it would mean that her saying
that you have a fear of commitment worthy of therapy would be right. But
maybe you have good reason to not want to commit to her. Sounds to me like
you do. As you said, there are bigger issues than her wanting to be
married. You proposed because she'd been begging you for it, telling you
that you needed therapy for it!
You say that she agrees with your passion for sports cars, but you also say
that she gets on your case about the amount of money you spent on your's.
So she doesn't agree. That's that. She shouldn't use something like that
against you, not unless your children are starving because you need more
cars. I know one couple who got married. She got pregnant while they were
dating. He took a loan out on his car (a $40,000 car that was completely
paid off) and bought her a $15,000 ring. They had a kid. The wife decided
that her boobs, as a result of the pregnancy, aren't as perky as they were
before. Asked her husband for a $3000 boob job. He got it for her. He got
her a new car. He spent 6 days a week, 60-80 hours working to support his
wife and child. She didn't work at all. Despite his reservations, they had
another child a year later. He was happy about it, but said that it was
only because she had been asking for it for so long that he agreed to having
another child. They had a son...two children. So he works longer hours.
She wants a newer, bigger car. He gets it for her. She wants him to sell
his really fast, really nice boat so she can have a slower party boat for
her and her friends to hang out on. Guess what he does? He tries to sell
it. She wants him to get rid of his desert dune buggy...so he fixes it up
and sells it. She and her mother get together at Christmas and compare
whose husband/boyfriend gave who more diamonds. I don't know how happy they
are together, but is that how you want to end up? Working to support your
family, but not getting to enjoy any of it because of unreasonable
expectations? I'm not saying that your relationship will end up this way,
I'm just saying...I think this woman has unreasonable expectations of her
husband and your fiancee is doing the same to you. Is it worth it to you to
make her happy at any expense, even that of your sanity??
"Anonymous" <an...@anon.net> wrote in message
news:SJGm6.8196$Op3.4...@news4.aus1.giganews.com...
Lisa
YOU WANT!?!?! You know what? Forget about her and her wants for a second
and think about your's. You don't even know that you want to marry this
woman, yet you proposed to her. Do you know why the engagement was later
than what SHE wanted? Because YOU weren't ready for it sooner. That
doesn't mean there was anything wrong with you, but it does mean that she is
being a completely selfish bitch who thinks she can take advantage of you
and is trying in every way imaginable to do it. Research her engagement
ring...you know, if getting a ring was all that was important to her, let
her keep the ring, but don't let her keep you. After all, it didn't cost as
much as a down payment on a car. Oh no, it was cheaper, but chosen with
love. Apparently that's not enough for her. Screw that.
"Anonymous" <an...@anon.net> wrote in message
news:UOPm6.24182$Yx4.8...@news6.giganews.com...
>
>
> That's somewhat accurate, actually. Perhaps if she decided to not complain
> as much, It would be different. This is my biggest problem with the
> engagement.
> I know that it was later than she wanted, and I know that she thought I
was
> using the time to plan something fabulous, but it still seems kind of cold
> to tell
> me that she's getting over the way I proposed, much less that she's
> concerned
> that the ring mayn't cost as much as the car's down payment. To be totally
> honest, it didn't. I did think it was a wonderful ring though. As she put
> it to
> me, after some of her research, she thinks it's in the top 3 percent of
> diamonds.
> It didn't really matter to me that much, but I suppose the number is nice.
Lisa
weapon against you? She basically gave you an ultimatum. "Propose to me,
or deal with my bitchiness."
"Anonymous" <an...@anon.net> wrote in message
Empress of the Known Universe
wrote:
>Hey! I wanna know what happened at the end of the book! I saw the movie
>and was disappointed. Gruesome bits didn't make up for the rest of the
>movie, in my opinion. Email me with the book ending, please!!! :)
>
>Lisa
OK, I will! (Later, gotta make dinner and then watch the President.)
But remember, I haven't seen the movie, I'm going on hearsay. So when
I do, email me back and tell me how the movie ended, ok?
-Empress
Lisa
"Anonymous" <an...@anon.net> wrote in message news:FFPm6.8761>
> Three months ago. I got over that in a day or two. I'm already to the
> point where
> thinking of her surfing the web to compare the diamond against my car
> doesn't make
> me sick.
Why doesn't it make you sick? I don't know you and your situation doesn't
affect my life in any way whatsoever, but the thought of someone doing that
makes me sick and very, very angry.
>
> I've wondered about that... The two things she's really gotten
> upset over as far as my behavior are the fact that I do have an
> ex-fiancee, and the fact that it took so long for me to propose,
> after a long period of fighting. I don't think I'm doing anything to
> provoke her.
You have an ex. You had a life before her. She can deal with it or move
on. It took you so long to propose because maybe you weren't ready for it
before. Again, she can deal with it or move on. You are with her now, you
have proposed to her. You aren't doing anything to provoke her, in fact,
you are doing everything you can to calm her down (or so it seems). And
it's not working. She seems to be the type to hold grudges. Too bad she
can't pick her fights better...those two things are nothing she should even
be concerned about.
Lisa
leslie malsbury
>
> "floridanewbie" <florid...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3a9ab3ed...@news.mindspring.com...
> > On Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:57:22 GMT, "Anonymous" <an...@anon.net> wrote:
> >
> > >Hi, sorry for the anon. post, I have my reasons though...
> >
>
> Yup. :-)
>
> > >I'm newly engaged (several months), and need a gut check on some
> >
>
> Mid twenties.
>
> > How long have you been dating?
>
> A couple years. That's actually one of the problems. She got
> ready for a proposal about a year into the relationship, and the fact
> that I hadn't proposed caused serious problems. At one point she
> asked me to see a therapist to investigate why I hadn't proposed
> yet.
OMG why even bother if she wants to throw therapy your way when not even
engaged yet? WTF is she some rich stuck up snob to be like that...YOU werent
ready for it, now you are...There are major issues here.....
>
> > >This, I had pretty much
> > >gotten over when I found out this weekend that she had been looking
> > >on some diamond sites to figure out how much her engagement ring
> > >cost, and that she didn't think I had spent two months salary.
> >
> > What is the two month's salary thing? Is that some bullshit jewelers
> > try to guilt you with?
>
> It's DeBeers, but the idea's the same.
>
> > If the two of you were really ready to marry for the right reasons,
> > the value of the ring would not matter ...
This I agree...
> I thought so too. I really wish I understood the dichotomy between her
> professions that she's happy with the ring, and yet she's insecure about
> the cost relative to the down payment I put on my car.
>
> > you do know you can become
> > engaged without any ring, don't you?
>
> Yes.
>
> > I wonder what kind of expensive, fairy tale wedding she expects ...
>
> We've already talked about this. Booked a consultant and everything.
Open your eyes .... put a LIMIT on that wedding with the way this is all
sounding...Does she HONESTLY love YOU or YOUR money?
> > are her folks rich enough to induge her tastes
>
> Not really. They're going to help, but they're in somewhat of a bind. At
any
> rate, she and I (read my savings) will foot the bulk of the bill. At any
> rate,
> she's upset because a lot of the wedding's burden (travel, etc.) is on her
> folks,
> while mine are in a better position.
SHE should be happy with what can be afforded.....
> >or will you have to go
> > into hock for the rest of your life to have the "perfect" wedding?
>
> No... it'll be managable.
honestly how managable? if shes concerned about her ring do you think she
will let a big wedding get away?
> > I
> > have a cousin whose son & bride were totally focused on having their
> > wedding at DisneyWorld (of all the putrid places to get married) ...
>
> That can get _expensive_. $65K for there top package for 100 people.
> We aren't close to that.
>
I got married by the justice of the peace over looking the hill
country...cost: 200.00 bux not including guests...probally a full total of
500.00 with cake the most...I was perfectly happy and content with
it...because I was uniting my life with the one I truely love....
> > Did you buy it before meeting her or was it a joint decision?
>
> We looked around a little... to get ideas. She didn't really want to
> get involved initially. At any rate, we looked at rings enough to
> give me an idea of what she liked. I actually bought a significantly
> nicer diamond than the ones we looked at.
>
> > I would also suggest you each pull and
> > share your current credit reports ... there may be some nasty
> > surprises.
Thats a good idea so she doesnt fuck yours up....
>
> There aren't on this front.
>
> -Mike
>
>
leslie malsbury
> My income became a lot more tenuous over the time period in
> which I bought the ring. I ended up going on a leave of absence
> only to come back to a company going out of business. As
> far as the other concern, she kept asking questions about how
> the wedding will be financed, as well as asking why my financial
> position was different when I bought the car. (I've since
> found a new job, BTW). When I asked why she kept bringing
> up the car, she didn't know how to respond.
BUSTED! The car shouldnt even be an issue....Happiness should be the issue
here...why is the car brought up so much?
> -Anon
>
> "Sourdough" <sour...@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
> news:t9nupj8...@corp.supernews.com...
> > I don't understand what you mean by this. Can you elaborate?
> >
> > "Anonymous" <an...@anon.net> wrote in message
> > news:RzGm6.22472$Yx4.8...@news6.giganews.com...
> > >
> > > > careful here, while your discussions may end up with an "all is
well,"
> > > > materialistic people [hell, all people...] build resentments.
> > >
> > > That's my biggest fear. I have the distinct feeling that she's already
> > > resenting the car. Over dinner tonight she was jutifying my ability
to
> > > spend the money on the car (1.5 years) ago based on my changing
> > > financial position.
> > >
> > > -Mike
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
leslie malsbury
"John Royer" <jro...@istar.ca> wrote in message
news:4yUm6.234451$Y.11...@news.total.net...
leslie malsbury
"Dan" <d...@spamless.not> wrote in message
news:P_Qm6.1087$w4.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> She's the female equivalent of the controlling, possessive,
> abusive men (eg OJ) we hear about all the time. Marry
> her and you'll end up in a shallow grave in the woods,
> within 4 years.
>
Or divorced in 1 month and have a stalker on you for good.,.....> news:V1Cm6.21857$Yx4.7...@news6.giganews.com...
> ...
leslie malsbury
>
> > So has she always been like this?
>
> In retrospect, perhaps yes. It was particularly bad when it came time
> to discuss my ex. That almost ended it (that I had an ex-fiance), and
> it's still an issue. I understand that some of this is normal, but we
> went through what seems like an awful lot of pain over my past.
Sounds to me she holds things to "blackmail" you in her own way...
> > Have you been overlooking her essential character?
>
> It's easy for me to rationalize individual events, and perhaps not see the
> overall picture.
>
> > Sounds like you postponed your proposal before due to reservations
> > about her character, what do you think?
>
> Oh yeah... I do agree.
>
> -Anon
>
>
leslie malsbury
"Empress of the Known Universe" <empre...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3a9c4723...@news.supernews.com...
leslie malsbury
order...sit down talk to her work this out if you find that you TRUELY love
her.....
"JWB" <jwbspamk...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:SkDm6.2379$l5.21...@newsfeed1.thebiz.net...
> I hate to say this, but there is no chance of you two making it. None at
> all. Her priorities are totally screwed.
>
> Run fast. Run far.
>
> --
> JWB
>
> remove spamkiller to reply via e-mail
> "Anonymous" <an...@anon.net> wrote in message
> news:6Owm6.6850$Op3.3...@news4.aus1.giganews.com...
> >
> > Hi, sorry for the anon. post, I have my reasons though...
> >
> > I'm newly engaged (several months), and need a gut check on some
> > of my emotions. The morning after we got engaged, my fiancee told
> > me that she was 'having to get over' the way I proposed. We had
> > been dating for a while, and she apparantly expected something more
> > elaborate than what I ended up doing. This, I had pretty much
> > gotten over when I found out this weekend that she had been looking
> > on some diamond sites to figure out how much her engagement ring
> > cost, and that she didn't think I had spent two months salary. (FWIW,
> > my job situation was pretty complicated at the time, but I did think
> > the ring was a splurge. It's easily 50-60% more than the rings she
> > and I had looked at together.) All this happened long after we pretty
> > much agreed that it didn't really matter what the ring cost, as long
> > as we were both happy.
> >
> > I guess the only two other germane things to mention are:
> >
> > She's been pretty caught up with the way the ring compares
> > to other people around her that have gotten engaged.
> >
> > I recently (12-15 months ago) bought a sports car that I had been
> > dreaming about for 3-4 years. She mentioned that she was
> > concerned that proposing to her was worth as much as the down
> > payment on my car. That was one of the reasons she started looking
> > at diamond sites.
> >
> >
> > Well, I've been pretty long winded, but this whole thing has me a little
> > depressed. I know you don't have a whole lot of information from this
> > post, but I'd just like to know your gut reaction...
> >
> > -Anon.
> >
> >
>
>
leslie malsbury
>
> > Tell her the small one's a
> > deposit; the balance will be paid based on performance.
>
> The original ring isn't that small... At any rate, a bigger one later on,
> based on performance (I know it's a joke of sorts), would only reinforce
> the fact that I still have doubts. The fact that I might have doubted her
> was the thing that made my punting on the first proposal so hard for
> her to take.
Upgrading to a bigger ring does not reinforce any doubts. at least not to
me....my husband got me a better ring then the classring/engagment
ring/wedding ring...now I have a bit larger one...to me it showed how much
he cared to try and make me happy with never complaining about the size or
what my rings were....
>
> -Anon
>
>
leslie malsbury
> > If I had spent 2 months' salary on an engagement ring, my wife would
have
> > clobbered me over the head and insisted that I take it back -- too
> > extravagant. We had better uses for money than wasting it on expensive
> > rings. I probably spent the equivalent of one or 2 weeks wages on her
> > engagement ring.
> >
> > As for the proposal...we were sitting on the couch watching TV. I had to
> ask
> > her 5 times. She kept shushing me because she was engrossed in the TV
> > program.
> >
> > Not very romantic, perhaps, but it did the trick. We've been together 26
> > years.
>
> You know...until the part where you said you had been together 26 years,
it
> sounded very familiar. My husband proposed (sans ring) on an "unofficial
> date" of ours (one of those where he just dropped by and we had pizza and
> watched tv at his place). I remember he kept saying "honey..I have a
> question..." and I was like SHHH!.. So, then the commercial came on and
he
> grabbed my hand and put it on his chest, so I looked over to ask if he was
> crazy or something. I was SOOO surprised. A week later he took me to
> dinner at "our" special restaurant and presented the ring and we actually
> set the date right then. So, I guess I got a proposal and a follow up
> proposal.
> >
Mine was bizaree i think...One night we just finished watch star trek the
next generation. I got up to get some water and he came over grabbed my
hands, got on both knees..he asked me "will you marry me?" my reply..."are
you serious?" we were only 18/19...i then asked him to reask and he
did...answer"yes" we have been married 5 together only :)
>
leslie malsbury
"Jenn" <jenl...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:beSm6.1$X2....@nnrp3.sbc.net...
> Anon,
> I'm sorry, I don't want to sound rude here, but if she has a problem with
a
> $7K ring then she has a screw loose.
> My ring was about $2K and I love it.
Heck my ring was 300 dollars and I love mine
Leslie
>
> "Anonymous" <an...@anon.net> wrote in message
> news:bnRm6.8804$Op3.4...@news4.aus1.giganews.com...
> >
> > "IgOr" <igno...@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message
> > news:slrn99nncq.u...@nospam.invalid...
> > > Anonymous <an...@anon.net> wrote:
> > > *
> > > * > Tell her the small one's a
> > > * > deposit; the balance will be paid based on performance.
> > > *
> > > * The original ring isn't that small... At any rate, a bigger one
later
> > on,
> > > * based on performance (I know it's a joke of sorts), would only
> reinforce
> > >
> > > how much did you pay for it anyway?
> >
> > Everything's relative to your personal situation, which is why I didn't
> > mention the
> > numbers, but it was close to $7K.
> >
> > -anon
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
floridanewbie
>Anonymous <an...@anon.net> wrote:
>*
>* They certainly do. Are you aware of the lengths they go to to understand
>* synthetic diamonds? Technology exists to consistently _make_ diamonds
>* in the 10-20 carat range. DeBeer's has developed a test to cull these out
>* based on certain flourescence characteristics that differ in the artificial
>* gem.
>* There's no visible difference otherwise unless you have an expensive test
>* system.
>
>I am curious how much these artificial big diamonds cost. Maybe I'll buy
>one if they are cheap.
Problem is ... if you wear a huge diamond (real or synthetic) you
could make yourself a target. Rolex watches and Armani suits are a
couple of other things the bad guys look for ... they can get kind of
testy if your wallet isn't full of cash.
Floridanewbie
Larry Kessler
wrote:
>You "wanted to marry her." Is that still what you want? Why are you
>questioning your love for her now? Why are you questioning her love for you
>now? As for the you wanting to marry her...sounds to me like she pushed you
>into it. I think if I were to be so bitchy to my boyfriend, he would go
>running away. I certainly don't think that's reason for a proposal. And
>how could you possibly think that she thinks she should deserve more? What
>more could she hope for?? A mind reader?!?! You do as she asks, but not
>what she wants, so you're somehow at fault? She's playing some mean mind
>games with you.
That's about what I said.
>You wanna know how I'm seeing it right now? It's kinda mean, but...here
>goes. I think that you're never going to be good enough for her. Before
>she could pin it on the lack of a proposal, but since you've now given her a
>proposal, so things should be all good, right? Oops, just when you kissed
>the boo-boo and made it better, she's got something else that you didn't do
>right! HOW DARE YOU! She's wanted this proposal for a whole year (or more)
>and then you go and give it to her, but you did it wrong! *Slap in the
>head* Don't you realize that she deserves more than the man she loves
>offering her a ring and proposing to spend the rest of his life with her?
>Everything was supposed to be perfect, down to the tie you were supposed to
>wear when you proposed. And the car! Oh my god the car!!! How dare you
>even think of yourself at a time like this? Didn't you know that she's
>supposed to mean more to you than anything? More than your career, more
>than your job, more than your sense of sanity, definitely more than anything
>you could be dreaming about!
She sounds like the kind of woman who plans her wedding starting at
about age 10. The groom is just the *last* piece of the puzzle, and
all men are probably interchangeable to her -- within the domain of
men who are willing and able to provide the scenario as she plans it.
>Sounds kinda messed up, doesn't it?
Very.
Anonymous
"wayne rasmussen" <XvirtualD...@gomonarch.com> wrote in message
news:3A9C4275...@gomonarch.com...
> My gut check is similar to nena's gut check.
wow... the unanimity continues... I see why, however.
> Nena wrote:
> > Sorry, I just couldn't resist.
> > Dr_Webb is our troll, who drops by ever so often to enlighten us with
some
> > theories about money grabbing bitches.
That's pretty close to what my web searches revealed. However, I only saw a
few
of his posts...
> > Now i am asking you: Can you put a price on love, on commitment ?
No. I guess that's the point of love and commitment.
> > I have a bad feeling, that you will have a nagging wife at home, who
can't
> > be pleased with anything.
That's my biggest concern.
One thing that's remarkable about the responses to this thread
are the number of responses, of obvious content, coming from
women. That, renews my faith in my own set of values.
> > It's not too late to change your mind. You may even get a refund on that
> > ring......
Unfortunantly, I know from prior experience that you can get store credit.
I
managed to resell it last time for 80%. Not too bad, all things considered.
-anon
Anonymous
> What come here to get
> peoples gut reaction then defend her so much?
Because I'm concerned I'm not seeing both sides of the issue.
-anon
Anonymous
> > I think she actually likes the ring I gave her, but the whole checking
out
> > the price/comaring it against the car thing really bothers me. Maybe she
> > does like it, but why would she go to such lengths on the price.She was
> > even somewhat startled that I didn't pay for it in one chunk.
> >
>
> Dude, anyway you look at it, she put a dig into you. It is insulting you
and
> you don't even understand it.
No... I get it. Moreso now, however.
> Don't let yourself get side tracked by smoke and mirrors.
My biggest issue is that I create my own smoke and mirrors..
> Focus on
> that specific thing. Think of a clever way to discuss it with her.
I've already started. It'll get more interesting over the weekend,
I'm sure.
> More than a reaction. A calculated statement. What was the intention?
I think to question the way I'm spending money on me versus 'us'. That's
probably the most fundamental issue. Moreso than the ring itself. It makes
it easier to reconcile her statement that the ring is wonderful with her
concern
over the price.
> It is often how people treat you at their worst that matters most.
I just need to put myself in my shoes a few months ago.
-anon
P. Drake
your engagement ring how do you think everyday married life will be with
her.Secondly I must say if you just noticed this stuff now you must of had
your
head stuffed up your #&%!! since you've been seeing her.Drop the gut check
and just check out of the whole deal.If you've put up with this and can even
think of still going through with it you're the one who nneds more help than
her.
Smell the coffee my friend.