FUR: Weigh in on furry art piracy on wikifur!
chib...@gmail.com
Sites like fchan.org that blatantly violate well known
Do-Not-Redistribute art, such as that of
http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/Klaus_Dobermann (and links in the article
even re-confirm Klaus' request, which was blatantly violated as
specifically pointed out on the fchan article talk page at
http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Fchan).
I hope artists who value control over their own work will weigh in on
this issue.
Here's an excuse of one:
"BasementCoder: And yes, maybe I do ignore the incredibly petty whims
of artists with overinflated egos."
(BasementCoder is the owner and operator of wtfur.org)
If a pirate site operator doesn't like you, as an person, they feel
they have a right to abuse your creative and intellectual property
rights as they see fit. Wikifur is the best resource the furry fandom
has to establish standards and define terms so those who wonder "where
is the line in violating an artist's wishes" can find an answer. This
is your opportunity to weigh in and let your voice be heard on the
topic of art piracy:
Bart Bervoets
wikia.
я黨wぃf
of<452a0555$0$31461$ba62...@news.skynet.be>:
>That's what you get when dealing with a corrupted (and convicted)
company as
>wikia.
>
How the hell could anyone prevent linking to the originals in the first
place?
Are they *reselling* the works with the watermarks stripped off that
say "do not distribute" or something similar?
Snivelhounds...they should welcome the free publicity.
chib...@gmail.com
stamps and/or ignore them entirely, and/or ignore "DNR" requests posted
publicly by the artist (sometimes in the archives with the art).
There's no respect for artist rights, and this is a chance for artists
to weigh in on the issue and help hammer out a definition of "art
piracy" on wikifur so that there's no excuse for ignorance on the part
of furs who do this crap.
mith...@yahoo.de
> Yes, as a matter of fact, fchan often does strip "Do Not Redistribute"
> stamps
As a matter of fact that is against the rules and gets rewarded with
deletions and bans, thank you.
alma...@gmail.com
> Wikifur is the best resource the furry fandom
> has to establish standards and define terms
Thanks for the laugh.
-- Shanya Almafeta
§nühwölf
people who have been "wronged" for a reasonable fee :)
Harry
chib...@gmail.com wrote:
> (Apologies for the crossposts)
>
> Sites like fchan.org that blatantly violate well known
> Do-Not-Redistribute art, such as that of
> http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/Klaus_Dobermann (and links in the article
> even re-confirm Klaus' request, which was blatantly violated as
> specifically pointed out on the fchan article talk page at
> http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Fchan).
>
> I hope artists who value control over their own work will weigh in on
> this issue.
Not again with this crap? >:(
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it, and
karma's a bitch.
Just ask Sibe. >:)
Harry T. Bear,
who's not an artist, but who threw his not inconsiderable "weight" in
anyway.
chib...@gmail.com
> As a matter of fact that is against the rules and gets rewarded with
> deletions and bans, thank you.
Not at fchan and similar sites. There, /pointing out/ copyright
violations gets you banned. /Committing/ copyright violations gets you
cheered.
mith...@yahoo.de
> > As a matter of fact that is against the rules and gets rewarded with
> > deletions and bans, thank you.
>
> Not at fchan and similar sites.
> There, /pointing out/ copyright violations gets you banned.
O RLY? I MUST'VE BEEN BANNED 342 TIMES ALREADY THEN! Or they dont ban
you as long as you stay curt and polite.
> /Committing/ copyright violations gets you cheered.
O RLY? Last time i accidentally posted a DNP pic i got flamed by 5
different persons...
§nühwölf wrote:
> mith...@yahoo.de wrote:
> > chib...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> Yes, as a matter of fact, fchan often does strip "Do Not Redistribute"
> >> stamps
> >
> > As a matter of fact that is against the rules and gets rewarded with
> > deletions and bans, thank you.
> >
> I would think that a good copy write lawyer could be had by all the
> people who have been "wronged" for a reasonable fee :)
what.
chib...@gmail.com
> I'm not talking about similar sites, i am talking about fchan.
>
> > There, /pointing out/ copyright violations gets you banned.
> O RLY? I MUST'VE BEEN BANNED 342 TIMES ALREADY THEN! Or they dont ban
> you as long as you stay curt and polite.
>
> > /Committing/ copyright violations gets you cheered.
> O RLY? Last time i accidentally posted a DNP pic i got flamed by 5
> different persons...
>
Posting any pic by any artist listed on
http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Do_Not_Redistribute_requests
without meeting the specific artists' terms is a copyright violation.
fchan's DNP system is an atrociously sick joke. fchan does NOT have
ownership of art until an artist specifically follows through their
rigamarol to earn back ownership over their own art.
fchan's own owner -- Xenofur -- said the site would not survive without
the rampant piracy that takes place with the blessing and protection of
its staff who are trained to enforce "rule 6" anytime someone points
out they actually are violating copyright.
Yarr, pirate.
mith...@yahoo.de
> Posting any pic by any artist listed on
> http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Do_Not_Redistribute_requests
> without meeting the specific artists' terms is a copyright violation.
I'm still waiting for you to either admit that it was a lie or to give
definite proof that they do.
> fchan's DNP system is an atrociously sick joke. fchan does NOT have
> ownership of art until an artist specifically follows through their
> rigamarol to earn back ownership over their own art.
> fchan's own owner -- Xenofur -- said the site would not survive without
> the rampant piracy that takes place with the blessing and protection of
tell you, the inhabitants of that board would abandon it like rats a
sinking ship if they tightened the rules even a bit more. The main
problem with that? The rats would go look for nicer ships. Perhaps a
ship in international waters without a DNP, like http://lulz.net
> its staff who are trained to enforce "rule 6" anytime someone points
> out they actually are violating copyright.
THEN! Or they dont ban you as long as you stay curt and polite.
> Yarr, pirate.
Oh look, name-calling, how mature.
Rust
news:1160569867....@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com:
> You're right. As ANYONE who knows more than 2 furry image boards can
> tell you, the inhabitants of [Fchan] would abandon it like rats a
> sinking ship if they tightened the rules even a bit more.
I think said inhabitants need a hard smack upside the head. It's all self-
absorbed bitching and moaning and "j00 hurt my erection" bullshit,
complaining all the while about how terrible it is to have to obey rules
like "keep things moderately on topic" and "blatantly ignore well
substantiated copyright law according to our house rules" - to say nothing
of the infuriating infantile verbal cruelty, suggesting that other posters
should die horrible deaths for daring to post something that doesn;t get
their rocks off, etc. Wah, wah, wah. What a pathetic gaggle of Asperger's
Syndrome poster children. They'd be thrown bodily off any non-furry board
in a matter of hours for behaving the way they do, and rightly so. Tight
rules my ass.
-Rust
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
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chib...@gmail.com
sliced bread?
*forms a furry-fandom-outcast-on-principle club with Rust*
Rust
@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> OhMyDog, someone else doesn't think fchan is the greatest thing since
> sliced bread?
>
> *forms a furry-fandom-outcast-on-principle club with Rust*
To be outcast requires that one be cast out. Who, I ask, is casting out
whom? Not all furries are antisocial cretins, but there's a significant
concentration of them who are.
And yes, I know that I'm antisocial in my own special way as well, but at
least I aknowledge that I'm a bastard.
chib...@gmail.com
> To be outcast requires that one be cast out. Who, I ask, is casting out
> whom? Not all furries are antisocial cretins, but there's a significant
> concentration of them who are.
I'm antisocial, and I've been cast out of wikifur. I can hear the
cheering all over the Internet ...
Chibiabos
Skipai Otter
news:1160621515.1...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
wiki...what...? Oh that place. Heh, nothing against it or for it. :)
This otter likes being in the shadows. :) 'sides I get more fish that
way... >:)
--
Skipai
§nühwölf
> chib...@gmail.com wrote in news:1160614112.455123.9520
> @k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
>> OhMyDog, someone else doesn't think fchan is the greatest thing since
>> sliced bread?
>>
>> *forms a furry-fandom-outcast-on-principle club with Rust*
>
> To be outcast requires that one be cast out. Who, I ask, is casting out
> whom? Not all furries are antisocial cretins, but there's a significant
> concentration of them who are.
>
> And yes, I know that I'm antisocial in my own special way as well, but at
> least I aknowledge that I'm a bastard.
>
Oh...so therefore since you're "aware" of your dickheadedness it makes
it ok?
What a fucking hypocrite you turned out to be :)
mith...@yahoo.de
Rust wrote:
> "mith...@yahoo.de" <mith...@yahoo.de> wrote in
> news:1160569867....@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com:
>
> > You're right. As ANYONE who knows more than 2 furry image boards can
> > tell you, the inhabitants of [Fchan] would abandon it like rats a
> > sinking ship if they tightened the rules even a bit more.
>
> in a matter of hours for behaving the way they do, and rightly so.
were thrown off the BIGGEST english image board for wanting to defend
things like artist's copyrights and are being laughed at for having
invented the concept of "DNP".
Rust
news:1160670011....@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
> And that's where you are as removed from reality as possible. Furries
> were thrown off the BIGGEST english image board for wanting to defend
> things like artist's copyrights and are being laughed at for having
> invented the concept of "DNP".
"DNP" is as ridiculous as it is unlawful. I mean, what, every artist is
expected to make rounds of every known furry art board - and unknown ones
for that matter - to specifically deny permission to distribute their work
there? A centralized DNP list would make marginally more sense, but still
unfairly places the onus of copyright on the artist who is in a poor
position to enforce. But guess what? Copyright on any and every piece of
intellectual property is implicit unless it is clearly and explicitly
released to the public domain. That is the letter of the law. DNP, even if
it were commonly respected, is a lame joke. As for being thrown off these
anonymous boards you mention, I can just imagine what the 'debate' sounded
like.
chib...@gmail.com
> "DNP" is as ridiculous as it is unlawful. I mean, what, every artist is
> expected to make rounds of every known furry art board - and unknown ones
> for that matter - to specifically deny permission to distribute their work
> there? A centralized DNP list would make marginally more sense, but still
> unfairly places the onus of copyright on the artist who is in a poor
> position to enforce. But guess what? Copyright on any and every piece of
> intellectual property is implicit unless it is clearly and explicitly
> released to the public domain. That is the letter of the law. DNP, even if
> it were commonly respected, is a lame joke. As for being thrown off these
> anonymous boards you mention, I can just imagine what the 'debate' sounded
> like.
>
> -Rust
No kidding. Extra kudos to any artist with the will and gumption to
get these boards shut down for infringing their copyright. Wish I
could help, but I'm struggling with my own bills as it is ... lawyers
don't come cheap.
While on the subject, I've been trying to think of a way to make a
group or presence dedicated to something woefully lacking -- honor in
furrydom. Anti-piracy, anti-abuse and harrassment, anti-bigotry and
intolerance. There's just no way putting together something like that
could work with just one person though.
I would like to mention and point out a fantastic resource I found for
explicit Do Not Distribute/Redistribute/Repost/etc. requests made by
artists, StarChaser's "Furry Artist InFURmation Page" at
http://web.tampabay.rr.com/starchsr/
There are certainly a lot more artists who have expressed such explicit
requests, and that's what my banned article on wikifur was to mention
and detail. Unfortunately, my e-mails to Starchaser have thus far not
been answered. There is at least one artist on the page who not only
is on the list but has a page detailing their leaving the fandom, Lance
Rund ... the specific page is
http://web.tampabay.rr.com/starchsr/whylance.htm
I was thinking maybe a "Furry Artist Memorial" page for all the furry
artists that have stopped making art. I would not want to demean
artists that have actually passed away, so it'd probably be one for all
artists that have stopped making art and not just (though certainly
including) those that left due to piracy, harrassment/trools, etc.
I'm glad to get the sense at least one other person in the furry fandom
might think such a project has value. I certainly hope there are more
...
Chibiabos
mith...@yahoo.de
> > > > You're right. As ANYONE who knows more than 2 furry image boards can
> > > > tell you, the inhabitants of [Fchan] would abandon it like rats a
> > > > sinking ship if they tightened the rules even a bit more.
> > >
> > > [...] They'd be thrown bodily off any non-furry board
> > > in a matter of hours for behaving the way they do, and rightly so.
> >
> > were thrown off the BIGGEST english image board for wanting to defend
> > things like artist's copyrights and are being laughed at for having
> > invented the concept of "DNP".
>
> "DNP" is as ridiculous as it is unlawful. I mean, what, every artist is
> expected to make rounds of every known furry art board - and unknown ones
> for that matter - to specifically deny permission to distribute their work
> there? A centralized DNP list would make marginally more sense, but still
> unfairly places the onus of copyright on the artist who is in a poor
> position to enforce. But guess what? Copyright on any and every piece of
> intellectual property is implicit unless it is clearly and explicitly
> released to the public domain. That is the letter of the law. DNP, even if
> it were commonly respected, is a lame joke. As for being thrown off these
> anonymous boards you mention, I can just imagine what the 'debate' sounded
> like.
>
> -Rust
little sidenote to make it seem like you are actually replying to my
post?
Anyhow, i added on the parts you forgot to quote and which are integral
to this matter. First off, some ground rules: Fchan is an anonymous
imageboard. 4chan is an anonmous imageboard. We are only talking about
anonymous imageboards here, not forums, nor anything else.
And now i will explain why the above remark from you is so removed from
reality (in a kinda abridged form to keep this from becoming a book, so
any of you who know the more intimate details, yes i know them too and
am omitting for brevity):
4chan was the original english imageboard and in essence a copy of the
japanese imageboard [ http://2chan.net ], which is a HUGE
million-dollar, government-supported forum system. Both of these have
one thing in common: They don't give a flying fuck about copyrights.
Why? Because, most importantly: NOTHING is stored permanently. The
boards are in a constant flux with new stuff being posted and old stuff
being AUTOMATICALLY deleted. Furthermore they agree to delete stuff
when the artists step up and say "Hey that's mine, delete it please.".
Now, for some (very short) time 4chan had a furry imageboard. Life was
good, hot shit was being posted. Until someone posted sexyfur, and
comet, and other commercial furry artists. Now these aren't very known
for being polite or anything, so soon the administration got mails with
legal threats and other stuff, which in the end didn't amount to much
aside from being spam. Additionally the users began bickering and
arguing. Things turned quite sour. That was when moot declared:
"That is why furries can't have an imageboard, everywhere they go they
cause drama!"
Note that at this time lots of other stuff was being posted in all
other boards, commercial and non-commercial stuff, and almost 100% of
it was drama-free and in many cases the artists were even happy to see
their stuff being posted.
Enter fchan, a rather small imageboard, the owner of which only wanted
to be able to do the same thing 4chan managed. Things went fine, it was
small, over short the owner got bored and looked for new mods. Board
got bigger and similar things as in 4chan started happening. Then the
people running it had an idea: "How about we do one better than the
other boards and are actually nice to artists? We simply allow them to
put themselves on a list, and we make sure stuff on that list doesn't
get posted." That earned them some respect by artists. Things went on
and were good.
On the flipside anyone else who was familiar with imageboard culture
laughed at them, they found the concept of a DNP hilarious and
retarded. They laughed at the artists who got upset about their
non-commercial and publicly freely accessible artwork being posted and
who called that practice art theft. First they mocked them and
disrupted them. Then they noticed: "Hey, bandwidth is getting cheap."
So the set out and made their own imageboards. This stopped one thing
you noted. The DNP stopped being central, it became splintered. There
were different imageboards.
One is in the usa, it had a dnp, but that list was small, because the
board was small and not well-known.
Another is in germany, it was small too, because it was only a tiny
sub-board on a german site. It had no DNP, because it wasn't affected
by american laws.
Another pretends to be fully adherent to the laws by having an opt-in
list, but in fact it has no protection due to tricking the laws with
caching tools.
One was made in america and completely disregarded all copyright laws
and being as close to 4chan as possible. It now moved to germany and is
almost untouchable, because noone willing to pul through with it sued
it for not having age verification.
One thing that these boards have in common though is this: They are
being laughed at and deried as being cesspools of drama, because they
try to provide something that is not a problem on the real and big
players. Because they actually deal furry artists and the drama that is
created by the problems they have with "copyright violations".
To summarize: You are as wrong as you can only be.
Furries aren't thrown off non-furry imageboards for disregarding
copyrights.
They get thrown off for actually taking them serious.
Welcome in the real world.
Rust
news:1160701717....@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com:
> Having fun quoting me, throwing down a wall of text, then tacking on a
> little sidenote to make it seem like you are actually replying to my
> post?
It's called "trimming quoted text", and it's considered proper netiquette.
I note that though you object to my use of the convention you had no
compunctions against using it yourself. If my comments were unrelated to
your previous post, then you can lay the blame squarely upon the shoulders
of your failure to communicate your meaning effectively.
<snip history lesson>
> To summarize: You are as wrong as you can only be.
> Furries aren't thrown off non-furry imageboards for disregarding
> copyrights.
Mm, irony. I think it was pretty clear that I was talking about their rabid
drama fit behaviour, not copyright violation.
> They get thrown off for actually taking them serious.
I still see no reason to construe a DNP list as "serious". You know damned
well it's a greasy and ill-informed attempt to legitimize unauthorized art
posting. It's all cosmetic hogwash, like confiscating nail clippers from
senior citizens at airport security stations.
You want to make something that's actually fair? Take away the "D" and "N"
from "DNP", and now you've got something - a list of artists who are willing
to allow controlled sharing of their work within a specific forum. They
know where their art is at, how it's being used, and they know that their
signature remains intact. Copyright remains just, legal and respected. Of
course someone will still whinge endlessly about how sergals prehensile
clitoral hoods disgust them and are an abomination unto their penis.
> Welcome in the real world.
Don't go getting all cocky until you have a reason to. Pretending that
you've already won a debate does not in fact constitute a victory or alter
solid facts. A DNP list is to copyright law what an open declaration of
what traffic violations you haven't committed is to automotive law. And
furries cause drama. Cloying, drippy melodrama, actually.
mith...@yahoo.de
> "mith...@yahoo.de" <mith...@yahoo.de> wrote in
> news:1160701717....@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com:
>
> > Having fun quoting me, throwing down a wall of text, then tacking on a
> > little sidenote to make it seem like you are actually replying to my
> > post?
>
> It's called "trimming quoted text", and it's considered proper netiquette.
> I note that though you object to my use of the convention you had no
> compunctions against using it yourself. If my comments were unrelated to
> your previous post, then you can lay the blame squarely upon the shoulders
> of your failure to communicate your meaning effectively.
>
seemed to have forgotten about.
Also, you're doing it again. You quote something, open with an
explanation or full text about something else and THEN write one
sentence that is actually related to the quote. To blame this on my
inability to communicate, when i couldn't have been more curt and to
the point is laughable.
> <snip history lesson>
>
> > To summarize: You are as wrong as you can only be.
> > Furries aren't thrown off non-furry imageboards for disregarding
> > copyrights.
>
> Mm, irony. I think it was pretty clear that I was talking about their rabid
> drama fit behaviour, not copyright violation.
>
Yes, drama fit behavior of artists or even worse, fans of artists, over
copyright violations. Something which the inhabitants and
administration of 4chan find hilariously retarded.
> > They get thrown off for actually taking them serious.
>
> I still see no reason to construe a DNP list as "serious". You know damned
> well it's a greasy and ill-informed attempt to legitimize unauthorized art
> posting. It's all cosmetic hogwash, like confiscating nail clippers from
> senior citizens at airport security stations.
>
> You want to make something that's actually fair? Take away the "D" and "N"
> from "DNP", and now you've got something - a list of artists who are willing
> to allow controlled sharing of their work within a specific forum. They
> know where their art is at, how it's being used, and they know that their
> signature remains intact. Copyright remains just, legal and respected. Of
> course someone will still whinge endlessly about how sergals prehensile
> clitoral hoods disgust them and are an abomination unto their penis.
>
I correct myself, i should've written "taking them more serious than
4chan.".
Aside from that, what you suggest would kill fchan. You might think
that something good, but then you'd fail to consider group dynamics and
consequences of one action. You might also claim it wouldn't, because
others do work despite using that method, but then you'd only be
uneducated about the reality behind these.
> > Welcome in the real world.
>
> Don't go getting all cocky until you have a reason to. Pretending that
> you've already won a debate does not in fact constitute a victory or alter
> solid facts. A DNP list is to copyright law what an open declaration of
> what traffic violations you haven't committed is to automotive law. And
> furries cause drama. Cloying, drippy melodrama, actually.
>
I do not need to pretend it. I have through historical fact proven that
furries do not get thrown off other image boards for disregarding
copyrights or simply causing drama, but because they cause drama by
actually caring about copyrights. Furthermore most of this drama is
caused by the artists themselves or fans who think they're in the place
to speak for the artists.
Rust
news:1160729117....@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
> Also, you're doing it again. You quote something, open with an
> explanation or full text about something else and THEN write one
> sentence that is actually related to the quote. To blame this on my
> inability to communicate, when i couldn't have been more curt and to
> the point is laughable.
You're a one trick pony, buddy, and I'm sure I haven't a clue what in hell's
name you're talking about.
>> Mm, irony. I think it was pretty clear that I was talking about their
>> rabid drama fit behaviour, not copyright violation.
>>
> Yes, drama fit behavior of artists or even worse, fans of artists, over
> copyright violations. Something which the inhabitants and
> administration of 4chan find hilariously retarded.
No - drama fits. Period. Do you think it is just possible that the world
marches on despite your pet issue, whichever side of that issue it is that
you're actually arguing for?
>> > They get thrown off for actually taking them serious.
<snip counter-argument>
> I correct myself, i should've written "taking them more serious than
> 4chan.".
> Aside from that, what you suggest would kill fchan. You might think
> that something good, but then you'd fail to consider group dynamics and
> consequences of one action. You might also claim it wouldn't, because
> others do work despite using that method, but then you'd only be
> uneducated about the reality behind these.
Uh... what? You know what? I probably know a lot more about group dynamics
than you do. I understand, for example, that culling is necessary to
maintain a healthy population in almost all cases. No group benefits from
having destructive members who disrespect the authority which is the voice
of said group. Do you really think that those who would flee from the
dastardly enforcement of rules which truly respect artists would be missed
for an instant? More of an arse-door interface situation if you ask me,
unless you believe that the vast majority of Fchan members belong to that
snivelling lot of indignant pseudo-rogues. As for killing Fchan, I note
that they recently created a special 'artist status' for artists who post
their own work voluntarily, and somehow the sky has not yet cracked open and
the hordes of some dark nether plane spilled into our own world to destroy
us all. When you respect someone, usually you're respected in turn. That's
actually a positive social thing. And if Fchan could not or preferred not
to move in a socially respectable direction, then perhaps it would indeed be
time for culling.
>> > Welcome in the real world.
>>
>> Don't go getting all cocky until you have a reason to. Pretending
>> that you've already won a debate does not in fact constitute a victory
>> or alter solid facts. A DNP list is to copyright law what an open
>> declaration of what traffic violations you haven't committed is to
>> automotive law. And furries cause drama. Cloying, drippy melodrama,
>> actually.
>>
> I do not need to pretend it. I have through historical fact proven that
> furries do not get thrown off other image boards for disregarding
> copyrights or simply causing drama, but because they cause drama by
> actually caring about copyrights. Furthermore most of this drama is
> caused by the artists themselves or fans who think they're in the place
> to speak for the artists.
You have not proven fuck all. You have cited nothing, you have offered
proof of nothing, you have almost entirely ignored the actual arguments I
have made, and you have done so in the arrogant self-satisfied tone of one
who believes that they have the authority to definitively decide what the
truth is rather than determine it. Christ, even the administration of Fchan
make extensive and broad reference to "drama", yet you persist in limiting
the definition of "drama" to one very specific, limited and frankly somewhat
justifiable instance. If your ability to debate does not improve past the
point of "Is so! Is so! Is so!" in your next post, you'll be the next to
be culled from my experience of this newsgroup, because it is becoming clear
that I am wasting my breath on you.
я黨wぃf
of<Xns985B65FB7D14...@216.183.128.12>:
>"mith...@yahoo.de" <mith...@yahoo.de> wrote in
>news:1160729117....@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
>
>> Also, you're doing it again. You quote something, open with an
>> explanation or full text about something else and THEN write one
>> sentence that is actually related to the quote. To blame this on my
>> inability to communicate, when i couldn't have been more curt and to
>> the point is laughable.
>
>You're a one trick pony, buddy, and I'm sure I haven't a clue what in
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>hell's name you're talking about.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
OMG! Thats the most honest thing youve said in a month!
>>> Mm, irony. I think it was pretty clear that I was talking about
their
>>> rabid drama fit behaviour, not copyright violation.
>>>
>> Yes, drama fit behavior of artists or even worse, fans of artists,
over
>> copyright violations. Something which the inhabitants and
>> administration of 4chan find hilariously retarded.
>
>No - drama fits. Period. Do you think it is just possible that the
world
>marches on despite your pet issue, whichever side of that issue it is
that
>you're actually arguing for?
>
Nicely PKB'd. No mirrors in your house?
:)
>>> > They get thrown off for actually taking them serious.
>
><snip counter-argument>
>
Of course: the PUSSY way out :)
>> I correct myself, i should've written "taking them more serious than
>> 4chan.".
>> Aside from that, what you suggest would kill fchan. You might think
>> that something good, but then you'd fail to consider group dynamics
and
>> consequences of one action. You might also claim it wouldn't,
because
>> others do work despite using that method, but then you'd only be
>> uneducated about the reality behind these.
>
>Uh... what? You know what? I probably know a lot more about group
dynamics
>than you do.
Thats laughable. Explain your *rampant* unpopularity then :)
>I understand, for example, that culling is necessary to
>maintain a healthy population in almost all cases.
Spoken like a true Cult Leader :)
>No group benefits from
>having destructive members who disrespect the authority which is the
voice
>of said group.
You just made the case for removing yourself dimmy.
>Do you really think that those who would flee from the
>dastardly enforcement of rules which truly respect artists would be
missed
>for an instant? More of an arse-door interface situation if you ask
me,
>unless you believe that the vast majority of Fchan members belong to
that
>snivelling lot of indignant pseudo-rogues.
You're pheno is psuedo rogue right?
Or is it psuedo dragon?
:)
As for killing Fchan, I note
>that they recently created a special 'artist status' for artists who
post
>their own work voluntarily, and somehow the sky has not yet cracked
open and
>the hordes of some dark nether plane spilled into our own world to
destroy
>us all. When you respect someone, usually you're respected in turn.
Coming from you thats the funniest thing youve said this *year*.
>That's
>actually a positive social thing.
How would you know?
You're a self-proclaimed antisocial "bastard".
ROTFLMAO!
And if Fchan could not or preferred not
>to move in a socially respectable direction, then perhaps it would
indeed be
>time for culling.
>
Nice Rant, Sir Rants a lot...
>>> > Welcome in the real world.
>>>
>>> Don't go getting all cocky until you have a reason to. Pretending
>>> that you've already won a debate does not in fact constitute a
victory
>>> or alter solid facts. A DNP list is to copyright law what an open
>>> declaration of what traffic violations you haven't committed is to
>>> automotive law. And furries cause drama. Cloying, drippy
melodrama,
>>> actually.
>>>
>> I do not need to pretend it. I have through historical fact proven
that
>> furries do not get thrown off other image boards for disregarding
>> copyrights or simply causing drama, but because they cause drama by
>> actually caring about copyrights. Furthermore most of this drama is
>> caused by the artists themselves or fans who think they're in the
place
>> to speak for the artists.
>
>You have not proven fuck all. You have cited nothing, you have
offered
>proof of nothing, you have almost entirely ignored the actual
arguments I
>have made,
He had to dumb it down, just for you :)
and you have done so in the arrogant self-satisfied tone of one
>who believes that they have the authority to definitively decide what
the
>truth is rather than determine it.
Tell us again about how "groups need culling".
H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^!
Christ, even the administration of Fchan
>make extensive and broad reference to "drama", yet you persist in
limiting
>the definition of "drama" to one very specific, limited and frankly
somewhat
>justifiable instance. If your ability to debate does not improve past
the
>point of "Is so! Is so! Is so!" in your next post, you'll be the
next to
>be culled from my experience of this newsgroup, because it is becoming
clear
>that I am wasting my breath on you.
>
>-Rust
>
Oh yes...the classic Rust answer to everything.
When the going gets tough, quit.
:)
Send in the Waaaaaaaambulance...
mith...@yahoo.de
Rust wrote:
> "mith...@yahoo.de" <mith...@yahoo.de> wrote in
> news:1160729117....@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
>
> > Also, you're doing it again. You quote something, open with an
> > explanation or full text about something else and THEN write one
> > sentence that is actually related to the quote. To blame this on my
> > inability to communicate, when i couldn't have been more curt and to
> > the point is laughable.
>
> You're a one trick pony, buddy, and I'm sure I haven't a clue what in hell's
> name you're talking about.
>
above methods to inject off-topic rants. :)
> >> Mm, irony. I think it was pretty clear that I was talking about their
> >> rabid drama fit behaviour, not copyright violation.
> >>
> > Yes, drama fit behavior of artists or even worse, fans of artists, over
> > copyright violations. Something which the inhabitants and
> > administration of 4chan find hilariously retarded.
>
> No - drama fits. Period. Do you think it is just possible that the world
> marches on despite your pet issue, whichever side of that issue it is that
> you're actually arguing for?
>
I am not arguing for an side. I am not passing judgement. I am simply
explaining to you what the reality in these regards is, based on the
past that i have closely witnessed and followed.
Are you actually talking about culling people from "furry"?
In case you're talking about culling people from fchan: Please do me a
favor. Think about, think about where those culled would go. Then
ponder the implications. I do wish to see if you understand group
dynamics as well as you claim to and as such will leave it up to you to
give the answer to those questions.
Regarding the "#Artist"-tag: This is actually a necessary tool for the
fchan moderation team. It is mainly being used to identify artists that
are on the DNP, yet post their own works. (It is sometimes also being
given out if artists request it that show considerable skill.) Without
this tool the team would be forced to verify post of DNP material with
the artist themselves if said material is posted from someone claiming
to be the artist. Furthermore it isn't recently, but has been around
for almost a year now iirc. It has nothing to do at all with moving in
a certain direction. It was something that was necessary and at the
same time pleasant to do for Xenofur.
Are you actually talking about culling fchan from "furry"? If so, would
you enlighten me as to how you would attempt this?
> >> > Welcome in the real world.
> >>
> >> Don't go getting all cocky until you have a reason to. Pretending
> >> that you've already won a debate does not in fact constitute a victory
> >> or alter solid facts. A DNP list is to copyright law what an open
> >> declaration of what traffic violations you haven't committed is to
> >> automotive law. And furries cause drama. Cloying, drippy melodrama,
> >> actually.
> >>
> > I do not need to pretend it. I have through historical fact proven that
> > furries do not get thrown off other image boards for disregarding
> > copyrights or simply causing drama, but because they cause drama by
> > actually caring about copyrights. Furthermore most of this drama is
> > caused by the artists themselves or fans who think they're in the place
> > to speak for the artists.
>
> You have not proven fuck all. You have cited nothing, you have offered
> proof of nothing, you have almost entirely ignored the actual arguments I
> have made, and you have done so in the arrogant self-satisfied tone of one
> who believes that they have the authority to definitively decide what the
> truth is rather than determine it. Christ, even the administration of Fchan
> make extensive and broad reference to "drama", yet you persist in limiting
> the definition of "drama" to one very specific, limited and frankly somewhat
> justifiable instance. If your ability to debate does not improve past the
> point of "Is so! Is so! Is so!" in your next post, you'll be the next to
> be culled from my experience of this newsgroup, because it is becoming clear
> that I am wasting my breath on you.
>
You see, all of this stems directly from my own experience and memory,
as i closely follow imageboard culture. Almost none of this is actually
citable, because almost none of it was ever recorded. All records that
exist of it are in the memories of the people that experienced what i
am talking about. All i ask you is to believe me, to believe that i am
not telling lies and that i am reasonably sure that my memory is not
faulty. If you cannot do that i ask you to contact other people and
verify my claims with them. You could perhaps start with the
administrators of several imageboards as these people usually are very
closely involved.
Now, i am afraid you misunderstood the definitions i put forth. I
apologize for being unclear: I am not attempting to define what kinds
of drama furries cause. I am attempting to explain what kind of drama
did cause furries to be thrown from 4chan, the biggest western example
of an imageboard.
Also, the drama on fchan you reference is a mixture of the drama i
mentioned before and which had certain consequences, and also of
several kinds of drama that are unique to fchan due to the board setup
and contents.
As i now failed to provide citable proof you will most probably cull
me. Rest assured that i do not begrudge it, nor will take it personal.
:)
P.S.: A slight style mistake: You are not wasting any breath on me,
unless you are using voice input software. :)
Rust
news:1160755034.0...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
>> You're a one trick pony, buddy, and I'm sure I haven't a clue what in
>> hell's name you're talking about.
>>
> Umm, excuse me? So far i am not the one who is repeatedly using the
> above methods to inject off-topic rants. :)
Okay, whatever.
> I am not arguing for an side. I am not passing judgement. I am simply
> explaining to you what the reality in these regards is, based on the
> past that i have closely witnessed and followed.
And I'm saying that I doubt that content was the issue half so much as
presentation. Yeah, that's kind of my own pet peeve, but I think it applies
accurately none the less.
> Are you actually talking about culling people from "furry"?
No. People are free to associate thenmselves with whatever subculture they
like, whether or not said subculture associates with them in turn. I'm
talking about the judicious use of administrative privelege to keep specific
organizations under a semblance of control. Flagrant disobedience of set
rules, abuse of fellow members and disrespect of administration calls for
certain action. Sometimes that action is a reprimand, sometimes it's a ban,
and sometimes it's even a matter of knowing when to back off and let it blow
over. What is not acceptable is a lissez faire attitude which permits - and
thereby exacerbates - complete disregard for the rules and authority.
> In case you're talking about culling people from fchan: Please do me a
> favor. Think about, think about where those culled would go. Then
> ponder the implications.
That's a point well made. On the other hand, it's been my experience that
being a member of one organization does not necessarily exclude one from
other organizations. That special brand of sunshine tends to get pretty
evenly distributed throughout the fandom, from what I've seen. I suppose
I'm more interested in just seeing some people pick up their socks and stop
re-enacting 'Lord of the Flies'. The culling I referred to is a potential
means to that end, in that it shows that dramatic screaming fits will not be
tolerated.
> Regarding the "#Artist"-tag: This is actually a necessary tool for the
> fchan moderation team. It is mainly being used to identify artists that
> are on the DNP, yet post their own works. (It is sometimes also being
> given out if artists request it that show considerable skill.) Without
> this tool the team would be forced to verify post of DNP material with
> the artist themselves if said material is posted from someone claiming
> to be the artist. Furthermore it isn't recently, but has been around
> for almost a year now iirc. It has nothing to do at all with moving in
> a certain direction. It was something that was necessary and at the
> same time pleasant to do for Xenofur.
But never the less, it works and it could be expanded upon so that it would
benefit the artistic community, the moderators and the fans. The artists
could enjoy monitored propagation of their artwork knowing that it hasn't
suffered unauthorized alteration, the moderators can relax a bit and stop
picking their brains to figure out where they've seen that funny looking
signature before, and the fans can enjoy the artwork as it was originally
posted, free of the stigma of piracy. I actually did see something a bit
like this done before, though it was so limited in both scope and promotion
that it was probably doomed to fail. The artists were all contacted before
their art was posted, and their decisions were respected. There was a
reasonably sized collection of art on the site, so it can safely be said
that many artists would agree to this kind of voluntary distribution.
> Are you actually talking about culling fchan from "furry"? If so, would
> you enlighten me as to how you would attempt this?
Wellll... an E-bomb or thermite satchel in just the right place...
No, I would not do such a thing even if I could. I think that Fchan is less
greasy than most means of unauthorized art redistribution, even if its
gestures towards the artistic community are largely token, and I think that
with some careful thought and forward movement it could become something
that benefits everyone involved.
> You see, all of this stems directly from my own experience and memory,
> as i closely follow imageboard culture. Almost none of this is actually
> citable, because almost none of it was ever recorded. All records that
> exist of it are in the memories of the people that experienced what i
> am talking about. All i ask you is to believe me, to believe that i am
> not telling lies and that i am reasonably sure that my memory is not
> faulty. If you cannot do that i ask you to contact other people and
> verify my claims with them. You could perhaps start with the
> administrators of several imageboards as these people usually are very
> closely involved.
Okay, I'm not accusing you of lying. I wonder, though, whether your
perception of events is unbiased. Can you say for certain that it was talk
of copyright issues that got furries kicked off of 4chan, or could it have
been the manner in which the issue was presented? You have your experience,
and I have mine. Mine leads me to believe that the claims of "drama" were
probably not unjustified.
> Now, i am afraid you misunderstood the definitions i put forth. I
> apologize for being unclear: I am not attempting to define what kinds
> of drama furries cause. I am attempting to explain what kind of drama
> did cause furries to be thrown from 4chan, the biggest western example
> of an imageboard.
Okay. It was, however, drama that brought this about and not overtly the
subject matter?
> Also, the drama on fchan you reference is a mixture of the drama i
> mentioned before and which had certain consequences, and also of
> several kinds of drama that are unique to fchan due to the board setup
> and contents.
Which I take to mean 'bumping', 'debumping' and the 'injured erection' posts
I mentioned earlier.
> As i now failed to provide citable proof you will most probably cull
> me. Rest assured that i do not begrudge it, nor will take it personal.
>:)
>
> P.S.: A slight style mistake: You are not wasting any breath on me,
> unless you are using voice input software. :)
You've never seen me hyperventilate when I rant.
Nothing frustrates me like talking to an apparent brick wall. You've proven
now that you -are- responsive to my opinions, points and questions, and I
apologize for my insulting tone.