All surrealism aside...
Ron Orr... & Tirran
a 'mask' simply to get thru the days, one by one - because the beast
that lives just under the surface of my skin isn't something I
particularly want to let loose, for both personal and social reasons.
The job I have is pretty good; I have much autonomy,
opportunities to learn new skills and utilise old ones, to be creative
at times, to be useful and helpful, something I truly enjoy. But
there's a down side... part of the job involves doing something I am
psychologically incapable of - and I've been trying to do it for
almost two weeks now with absolutely no result except that i"ve
developed symptoms I recognise, symptoms that presage a total
breakdown and the subsequent loss of... well, everything. It happened
in 1981. It may happen again.
It's tightly tied to my personality, and my experiences, and I
can trace where it comes from the manticore - the independant,
solitary, territorial monster that describes me so perfectly I'm
_still_ astonished I didn't see myself this way long ago. Maybe I
could put that mask on (the one that fits worse and worse each day) so
tightly that I'd never get it off again, but it wouldn't change what
was behind, and I'm pretty sure that the fit is already so bad that it
wouldn't take much time until it decayed so completely that I could no
longer pretend to be even partially human any more. Hells, I don't
know if I can make it stay on the rest of the _week_ at this rate. :(
I wish I knew what to do. Apart from this one activity, this is a
sweet deal. I have a future here, something I never had before,
really, in the human world, but that future may evaporate if I can't
change the way my mind works... but if I change that, I lose _MYSELF,_
and I have no desire to spend any more time being an unhappy blank; I
did it for twenty-five years, and that was way more pain than anyone
deserves to be put thru.
Thus the dilemma. I must, but if I make myself over enough to do
it, I lose the most important part of me...
Any insights would be appreciated...
Oh, and the distasteful task? Sales. Cold calls. It repels and
disgusts me so much that even _thinking_ about it causes my teeth to
bare and my (in potentia) claws to extend. If I'd known the job
entailed it, I would have declined, but here I am... :(
Tir'
Tim Gadd
> Thus the dilemma. I must, but if I make myself over enough to do
>it, I lose the most important part of me...
> Any insights would be appreciated...
There is only one piece of advice which I feel confident enough to
give: give yourself a third option. I don't know what it is. The
important thing is recognising that you are not restricted to two
unacceptable alternatives. You've got a brain on you; go oblique with
it. I believe once you set yourself to it, you'll work out something:
unspectacular maybe; not instant; maybe not even 100% perfect, but
something that will work.
> Oh, and the distasteful task? Sales. Cold calls. It repels and
>disgusts me so much that even _thinking_ about it causes my teeth to
>bare and my (in potentia) claws to extend. If I'd known the job
>entailed it, I would have declined, but here I am... :(
Could you hate sales more than me? I sold paintings door to door. This
couple bought one, and I tried to talk them out of it, because it was
such crap. I don;t know what 'cold calls' means. Does thatmean you
have to make unsolicited phone calls to people to try to sell them
stuff? That wouldn't make my day, either. But this is one flaw in an
otherwise attractive siuation. There has to be a way to deal with it,
and I'm sorry but I can;t know what that is, because I don't know the
details. Can you talk to someone about the problems you're having with
that element of the job? Can you be creative in the way you approach
the selling, so it becomes less obnoxious to you? I can imagine you
selling me something and it being a _good_ experience, if you were
you, and not trying to fit into the mould of the achetypal vacuum
cleaner salesman. If you want to email me and tell me a bit more
detail about what it is you;re supposed to be selling, and how, I'll
try and be creative and come up with some suggestions, but I'm
guessing you'll stand a better chance of getting it right than me. I'm
not going to read this through before I send it, because I know it
won;t get sent if I do that...
--
Tim Gadd | fluke .com
Hobart, Tasmania | @southcom
Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Coffeehouse/1161/
"I try and do something each day. Work might
not be exactly the word for it."
- Edward Gorey
Leonard Lion
>Oh, and the distasteful task? Sales. Cold calls. It repels and
>disgusts me so much that even _thinking_ about it causes my teeth to
>bare and my (in potentia) claws to extend. If I'd known the job
>entailed it, I would have declined, but here I am... :(
<my $0.02>
This thing you're selling ... is it a good product/service? Try to think of
what you're doing as bringing people something they would want, rather than
pushing something onto people.
If it isn't, then walk away.
</my $0.02>
--Leonard Lion, owner and proprietor of The Watering Hole
http://members.aol.com/leonrdlion -- My homepage, such as it is
http://www.suburbanjungle.com -- The life, loves, and career of aspiring
supermodel and ferocious predator, Tiffany Tiger.
Ron Orr... & Tirran
(Leonard Lion) said something along the lines of:
>This thing you're selling ... is it a good product/service? Try to think of
>what you're doing as bringing people something they would want, rather than
>pushing something onto people.
That's the mindset that keeps me from going spla when I'm
_answering_ the phone. It doesn't extend any farther than that...
Thanks, tho; that did help clarify things a bit...
Tir'
sitting at the office, trembling
Nevis
[ ... ]
> Thus the dilemma. I must, but if I make myself over enough to do
>it, I lose the most important part of me...
>
> Any insights would be appreciated...
I think I know exactly how you're feeling. To solve the problem for
myself, I've learned to live two completely separate lives. No one in
the "real world" has the slightest clue of my "furry" interests (at
least, I don't think that they do).
If you look at the two pictures of "Nevis" on Wabbit's "Furry
Pictures" page (http://deserthare.homepage.com/Furries/furries.html ),
the upper picture is the image which I present to the public. But
that doesn't fit my self image at all. The sketch below it comes a
lot closer to my own mental image of myself.
Keeping two completely separate lives is far from an ideal solution
for me, but I have become accustomed to it and most of the time I
don't feel like I'm on the edge of losing my sanity. I just live for
the time each day when I can leave the business stuff behind and
become more like the real me.
> Oh, and the distasteful task? Sales. Cold calls. It repels and
>disgusts me so much that even _thinking_ about it causes my teeth to
>bare and my (in potentia) claws to extend. If I'd known the job
>entailed it, I would have declined, but here I am... :(
Ugh, I don't think I could handle that, if I were bluntly forced into
it. I sell computer products and services for a living, but as a
rule, I always let the customer come to me; I never go out and ask for
their patronage. I try simply to advertise enough so that they will
know that I have something useful to offer if they need it, using only
non-intrusive advertising media. Most especially, I never engage in
telemarketing. If you do that, you'll not only hate yourself, but the
people you are calling on will hate you too. I hope your job doesn't
require that.
I am presently investigating very seriously becoming an ISP. I have
been given an offer by a large ISP to market their service in my local
community. I have a lot of questions before I would go forward with
the deal. If you (or anyone) can offer me counseling in this area, it
might be very helpful for me. I have been required to sign a
non-disclosure agreement so I can't discuss the terms of the agreement
in public, but I am permitted to seek private counseling.
Hoping everything works out okay for you,
Nevis
nevis at
livingwild dott comm
or nevis at
yiffy dott squeep dott comm
Cerulean
confront your employer with the fact that this task is something you
are not suited for, and was not part of the job description you were
hired for. Respectfully ask if there is a way that this duty can be
shifted somewhere else so that you can concentrate on your strengths.
Your employers will tell you that you are out of touch with the
reality of business, which is that everybody has to do things they
don't like sometimes, and that it would be impractical to hire
separate people for individual jobs. Tell them that your aversion to
cold selling is serious, that putting you on the phone will be of no
benefit to the company, and that you really cannot continue to work
this way. If they don't fire you, they will reject your concerns and
expect you to go back to work, at which point you will quit.
Alternatively, you can try to keep on going like you are, and in not
very long you will be overwhelmed with the urge to quit, walk out of
the building, and vow to never return. There will be no way for you to
stop yourself. At least with the first approach there is a slight
chance that you will get the concessions you require to continue
working there.
You may get the idea that I know whereof I speak. I'll tell stories
later, only if people want to hear them.
--
___vvz /( Absurd Notions is on! -> http://cerulean.st/absurdnotions/
<__,` Z / ( | Cerulean= | DC2.~D GmAL~W-R+++Ac~J+S+Fr++IH$M-V+++Cbl,spu
`~~~) )Z) ( | Kevin Pease | FDDmp4adwsA+++$C+D+HM+P-RT+++WZSm#
/ (7 ( h+a!)oS uo!+ewJojuI - ,,Japuom o+ j7asJnoh 77aL,,
Flicker
> Thus the dilemma. I must, but if I make myself over enough to do
> it, I lose the most important part of me...
Some of us a peculiarly doomed. I myself went through fits, bounding from
job to job. I have one now that's worth keeping, that I don't find
personally demeaning or degrading to others, but it was a long hard
search. Sometimes the easy path is not the best. And sometimes our souls
will chafe at the best of circumstances.
> Oh, and the distasteful task? Sales. Cold calls. It repels and
> disgusts me so much that even _thinking_ about it causes my teeth to
> bare and my (in potentia) claws to extend. If I'd known the job
> entailed it, I would have declined, but here I am... :(
I detect a hint of self-loathing there. So, you have a few choices...
(1) Keep it bottled up until you explode. Not generally a good thing, but
I'd have to plead guilty to this.
(2) Find some better job somewhere else. Yeah, easier said than done, it's a
matter of months or longer... but doing that actively, purposefully, may
distract your attention. And the feeling of satisfaction you get when you
finally land that bigger better deal makes up for the frustration.
(3) Empty yourself into avocational activities, such that the being that goes
to work is a pod-person version of yourself. It's harder to be resentful
when you're half-dead. I wouldn't recommend this as a permanent solution to
the problem though, as it's fairly health-wrecking and mentally
destabilizing.
Remember, free advice is worth what you paid for it.
-Flicker, Mad Coyote
Skytech
>
> can trace where it comes from the manticore - the independant,
> solitary, territorial monster that describes me so perfectly I'm
> _still_ astonished I didn't see myself this way long ago. Maybe I
> could put that mask on (the one that fits worse and worse each day) so
> tightly that I'd never get it off again, but it wouldn't change what
> was behind, and I'm pretty sure that the fit is already so bad that it
> wouldn't take much time until it decayed so completely that I could no
> longer pretend to be even partially human any more. Hells, I don't
> know if I can make it stay on the rest of the _week_ at this rate. :(
>
> I wish I knew what to do. Apart from this one activity, this is a
> sweet deal. I have a future here, something I never had before,
> really, in the human world, but that future may evaporate if I can't
> change the way my mind works... but if I change that, I lose _MYSELF,_
> and I have no desire to spend any more time being an unhappy blank; I
> did it for twenty-five years, and that was way more pain than anyone
> deserves to be put thru.
> it, I lose the most important part of me...
>
>
The other guy and I seem to have blended quite nicely. We need each
other and support each other when the world gets cold and harsh. There's
times we don't see much difference between us. It make life much more
tolerable and pleasant with someone else nearby to talk it out.
Try it, you'll like it.
--
---
La gvatanta vulpo (The vigilant fox) and the other guy.
Skytech
^^
<@@>
.]
HPickands
Tirran) writes:
> I wish I knew what to do. Apart from this one activity, this is a
>sweet deal. I have a future here, something I never had before,
>really, in the human world, but that future may evaporate if I can't
>change the way my mind works...
>Oh, and the distasteful task? Sales. Cold calls.
Oh Gods! :( To be directed to become one of those that make your phone ring
in the middle of dinner,during visits to the little manticore's room,
interrupting even more intense personal activities, that's an awful thing to
ask of anyone.
> It repels and disgusts me so much that even _thinking_ about it causes my
teeth >to bare and my (in potentia) claws to extend. If I'd known the job
>entailed it, I would have declined, but here I am... :(
The exact same thing happened to me once upon a time. Went into thisstart up
firm to do something quite different, ended up in a cubicle staring at a phone
and the Yellow Pages. >:P
I handled it badly, very badly. :( Tried to please everyone, kind of
mollified that inner voice I know well now, that was yelling, "No Way!", and my
"leader" by faking it, calling family and friends and pretending they were
doctors I was trying to sell a car to. I'm still ashamed of myself for that,
should have taken option #2 and walked outta there. There was no negotiating
of anything with that management.
"Woulda, coulda, shoulda." - Judith Scheindlen
> but if I change that, I lose _MYSELF,_
From experience, that is _exactly_ what happens. :( All those years of trying
so hard to make everyone else happy only made me _un_happy.
>and I have no desire to spend any more time being an unhappy blank; I
>did it for twenty-five years, and that was way more pain than anyone
>deserves to be put thru.
I can testify that this is _no_way to live, if it can be called "living". More
like a gray existence.
> Thus the dilemma. I must, but if I make myself over enough to do
>it, I lose the most important part of me...
The old "rock and a hard place" dilemma.
> Any insights would be appreciated...
Well, hopefully your management _can_ be negotiated with. If they like what
you're doing for them, they may well drop the telemarketing angle. It's worth
a try anyway. Ask them just how much _they_ like getting those sales pitch
phone calls. >:) Say the magic word, "Spam!"
But, if as what happened to me, it's their way or the highway, take a walk and
save your soul.
I wish I had back then. Staying and doing something that runs so counter to
your values might save your job, for a while, but inside you'll feel terrible.
Self loathing is a very bad thing, extremely destructive. I beat the hell out
of myself for years and years, always caving in to what others wanted me to do
(and faking when I could for a little internal self preservation), devoid of
self respect and self confidence because of it.
That all changed seemingly overnight about three years ago when at last I
started _really_ listening to that suddenly personified inner voice, taking the
guidance, doing the right things. No more doing something that Julia says is
wrong, that instinctively _feels_ wrong, so as to please someone _else_. It
isn't easy either, but it's the right thing to do for one's ownself.
"To thine own self be true, and then as night follows day, thou can'st be false
to any man."
- William Shakespeare; probably boogered up a bit, it's been a long time
since I read Hamlet.
This probably is of no help at all, but for what it's worth, there it is. Good
luck, and whatever you do keep #1 at the top of your list of whom to schmooze.
:)
BTW, the job with the cold calls? Ended abruptly a few weeks later when the
general mis-manager refused to pay me a fat commission on a sale, kept it for
himself claiming he had spoken to the customer first. _Then_ I took a hike. :/
Harry Bear,
been there, done that, will _never_ever_ do it again.
Kimba W. Lion
>Well, hopefully your management _can_ be negotiated with. If they like what
>you're doing for them, they may well drop the telemarketing angle. It's worth
>a try anyway. Ask them just how much _they_ like getting those sales pitch
>phone calls. >:)
heh heh... I have this picture of the person-in-charge's home phone
number circulating through umpteen million telemarketers... :)
Kimba
Artax
They did something like that on "TV Nation" once, phoned up the owner
of a phonespam company (telemarketer is much too kind a term) at 2 AM
and posed as phonespammers, kept calling back after he hung up on them
until he was apoplectic, and then broadcast it all on TV.
a res. | Artax
r p c | (Brad Austin)
t x o |
ax@i m | Oceanside, CA USA
HPickands
(HPickands) writes:
>
>"To thine own self be true, and then as night follows day, thou can'st be
>false
>to any man."
> - William Shakespeare; probably boogered up a bit, it's been a long time
>since I read Hamlet.
>
Yup-yup,
Mucked it up. :(
That's, "thou cans't _not_ be false to any man."
Harry Bear,
getting sloppy with the details again, dammit.
Kimba W. Lion
>They did something like that on "TV Nation" once, phoned up the owner
>of a phonespam company (telemarketer is much too kind a term) at 2 AM
>and posed as phonespammers, kept calling back after he hung up on them
>until he was apoplectic, and then broadcast it all on TV.
Trouble is, I think that kind of harassment is illegal.
Artax
Well, Micheal Moore isn't exactly well known for paying much attention
to the legal departments of the various networks his show has been on.
I think that's probably why he keeps getting cancelled.
Personally though I think phonespamming is what should be illegal.
laze...@my-deja.com
trying to repres your furrie side is not an easy or pleasnt thing. It
got so bad one day i was admited to a hospital(not the kind your
thinking) Wheni got out, i treid and tried to refuse my more betial
urges, but then i realized the resisting it was the problem. Do not
deny your furrie side, ebrace, embrace it with all your heart and
sole. Let it become apart of you. If your afraid it will change you,
it could, it changed me. The way i see it, you have only your humanity
to lose, and when you think about, is that such a bad thing?
Let me know how your doing from time to time
laze...@hotbot.com
David Lazerous
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
bill adams
-----Original Message-----
From: HPickands <hpic...@aol.com>
To: alt.lifes...@list.deja.com <alt.lifes...@list.deja.com>
Date: Sunday, September 19, 1999 4:19 PM
Subject: Re: All surrealism aside...
> Message from the Deja.com forum:
> alt.lifestyle.furry
> Your subscription is set to individual email delivery
>>
>In article <37e65f00...@furry.ao.net>, griz...@vianet.on.ca (Ron
Orr... &
>Tirran) writes:
>
((((((((hay this is one cat that that is going to try to becom the lowest of
the low, a used car salesmen , but the cars will be electric cars at a good
price, oh how low i have sunk. i help others (fur and humens) i help ix the
air, and i piss off the big boys all at the same time . oh im such a
bbaaadddd pudty tat hehehehehe ,)))))))))
>Well, hopefully your management _can_ be negotiated with. If they like
what
>you're doing for them, they may well drop the telemarketing angle. It's
worth
>a try anyway. Ask them just how much _they_ like getting those sales pitch
>phone calls. >:) Say the magic word, "Spam!"
>
>But, if as what happened to me, it's their way or the highway, take a walk
and
>save your soul.
>
>I wish I had back then. Staying and doing something that runs so counter
to
>your values might save your job, for a while, but inside you'll feel
terrible.
>Self loathing is a very bad thing, extremely destructive. I beat the hell
out
>of myself for years and years, always caving in to what others wanted me to
do
>(and faking when I could for a little internal self preservation), devoid
of
>self respect and self confidence because of it.
>
>That all changed seemingly overnight about three years ago when at last I
>started _really_ listening to that suddenly personified inner voice, taking
the
>guidance, doing the right things. No more doing something that Julia says
is
>wrong, that instinctively _feels_ wrong, so as to please someone _else_.
It
>isn't easy either, but it's the right thing to do for one's ownself.
>
>"To thine own self be true, and then as night follows day, thou can'st be
false
>to any man."
> - William Shakespeare; probably boogered up a bit, it's been a long time
>since I read Hamlet.
>
>This probably is of no help at all, but for what it's worth, there it is.
Good
>luck, and whatever you do keep #1 at the top of your list of whom to
schmooze.
>:)
>
>BTW, the job with the cold calls? Ended abruptly a few weeks later when
the
>general mis-manager refused to pay me a fat commission on a sale, kept it
for
>himself claiming he had spoken to the customer first. _Then_ I took a
hike. :/
>
>Harry Bear,
>been there, done that, will _never_ever_ do it again.
>
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Deja.com: Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
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%3E
Skytech
>
> >
> ((((((((hay this is one cat that that is going to try to becom the lowest of
> the low, a used car salesmen , but the cars will be electric cars at a good
> price, oh how low i have sunk. i help others (fur and humens) i help ix the
> air, and i piss off the big boys all at the same time . oh im such a
> bbaaadddd pudty tat hehehehehe ,)))))))))
Wait a minute! A *used* electric car sales person?!
--
---
La gvatanta vulpo (The vigilant fox)
Skytech
^^
<Oo>
./
bill adams
-----Original Message-----
From: Skytech <sky...@ix.netcom.com>
To: alt.lifes...@list.deja.com <alt.lifes...@list.deja.com>
Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 4:24 AM
Subject: Re: All surrealism aside...
> Message from the Deja.com forum:
> alt.lifestyle.furry
> Your subscription is set to individual email delivery
>>
>bill adams wrote:
>>
>> >
>> ((((((((hay this is one cat that that is going to try to becom the lowest
of
>> the low, a used car salesmen , but the cars will be electric cars at a
good
>> price, oh how low i have sunk. i help others (fur and humens) i help ix
the
>> air, and i piss off the big boys all at the same time . oh im such a
>> bbaaadddd pudty tat hehehehehe ,)))))))))
>
>Wait a minute! A *used* electric car sales person?!
>--
>---((((((( ya i tack old smog belching cars that can no linger pass the
smog laws and convert them to electric power, something the powers that be
here in calif do not wount you to know about))))))
>La gvatanta vulpo (The vigilant fox)
> Skytech
>
> ^^
> <Oo>
> ./
>
>http://members.xoom.com/MuklukWolf/skytech/index.html
>
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________
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Lisa Benson
Ron, I know how you feel. I've been a telemarketer for going on 6
years now; I am currently in customer service for a state and
federally funded health insurance proogram for children. I started
out by trying to get people a free health insurance quote, however....
and it wasn't always easy.
Remember this, Ron: if it is the people you fear,and their reaction,
don't.. because, ultimately, they don't see you as a face, only hear
you as a voice. They cannot reach you.
As this above responce says, the product is helpful, and many people
may not be aware of it.
I've always used a script or set of scripts for each kind of
situation.. it was updated as the need arose, to help out with newer
situations that arose as I called more people.
It boosted my confidence greatly.
Hope this helps....
=~=~=~=~=~==~=~=~=~=~==~=~=~=~=~==~=~=~=~=~==~=~=~=~=~==~=~=~=~=~=~=~=
"The Pan-Galactic Gargle-Blaster has been described as being hit in the
Head with a slice of lemon -- wrapped around a Large Gold Brick." Do
YOU know where YOUR towel is??
ICQ: 43062513 AIM: CaliBamble
email: If you're not a spammer, remove the "SNARF" from my address to reach me. Otherwise, SNARF YOU!
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dungeon/6187
http://www.chameleon.net/wabbit/index.html
http://www.chameleon.net/deserthare/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Strand/2319
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rod hull
...You could be on AFF
Mr F.W. Troll
"I want to fly across the firmament, as a testiment to my holiness..."
"Nice..."