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Message from discussion Persecution

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From: "Derek" <Staghun...@email.msn.com>
Newsgroups: alt.lifestyle.all-faiths
Subject: Re: Persecution
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 13:22:18 -0000
Lines: 511
Message-ID: <apm1tq$2tvjj$1@ID-11056.news.dfncis.de>
References: <ap9her$smv68$1@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de>   <ape7g6$qc21$1@ID-29845.news.dfncis.de> <ape8mo$q518$1@ID-10225.news.dfncis.de> <gHxu9.15291$Kf.1839634@news20.bellglobal.com> <apea40$q12b$1@ID-10225.news.dfncis.de> <r_xu9.15304$Kf.1846510@news20.bellglobal.com> <apeavi$qphd$1@ID-10225.news.dfncis.de> <Hlyu9.15320$Kf.1854480@news20.bellglobal.com> <apec4j$q7gj$1@ID-10225.news.dfncis.de> <apf1sa$rq83$1@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de> <apf3ff$111qh$2@ID-10225.news.dfncis.de> <apfjto$1462m$1@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de> <B5Su9.1878$Nf2.30513@news20.bellglobal.com> <api3tb$1o5rm$1@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de> <api4to$1patn$1@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de> <apiee2$1nkia$1@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de> <iM9v9.2083$h_4.287636@news20.bellglobal.com> <apkgdb$2g4om$1@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de> <apknh3$2h2ag$1@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de> <apkouk$26lff$1@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de> <apkv3r$2kghj$2@ID-10142.news.dfncis.de> <apl44v$2n3na$1@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de> <apl60g$2dtl0$1@ID-10142.news.dfncis.de>
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LOLOL...
looking at your tumsy perhaps
Derek
"Mitzi M." <nospamspiritasmi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:apl60g$2dtl0$1@ID-10142.news.dfncis.de...
> I don't remember whatIwas thinking..
>
> Mitzi
>
>
> "naked ape" <naked_a...@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:apl44v$2n3na$1@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> > ?
> >
> > "Mitzi M." <nospamspiritasmi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:apkv3r$2kghj$2@ID-10142.news.dfncis.de...
> > > bump
> > >
> > > "naked ape" <naked_a...@msn.com> wrote in message
> > > news:apkouk$26lff$1@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > Exactly. Nothing is, lest thinking make it so. ..  Ape;)
> > > >
> > > > "Rien" <pheas...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:apknh3$2h2ag$1@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > > You only *think* that you see what you see...:-)
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Rien.
> > > > > www.pheasantsnest.com
> > > > > http://users.bigpond.net.au/pheasant
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------
> > > > > "naked ape" <naked_a...@msn.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:apkgdb$2g4om$1@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > > > No it isn't, but you are. ..  Ape;)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Chovhani" <chovh...@india.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:iM9v9.2083$h_4.287636@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > > > > > > It is chock full of archetypal symbolism.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Melanie
> > > > > > > www.chovhani.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > naked ape <naked_a...@msn.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:apiee2$1nkia$1@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > > > > > That "something" is Nature, and no way are you going to
> convince
> > > me
> > > > > it's
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > metaphor. ..  Ape;)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Rien" <pheas...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > news:api4to$1patn$1@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > > > > > > everything is a metaphor.
> > > > > > > > > no exceptions.
> > > > > > > > > as you say: 'manifestations of 'something'
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > Rien.
> > > > > > > > > http://users.bigpond.net.au/pheasant
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ------------------
> > > > > > > > > "naked ape" <naked_a...@msn.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > > news:api3tb$1o5rm$1@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > > > > > > > Sunsets are sunsets, rainbows are rainbows. They aren't,
> or
> > at
> > > > > least
> > > > > > > > > > shouldn't be, metaphors. ..  Ape;)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > "Chovhani" <chovh...@india.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > > > news:B5Su9.1878$Nf2.30513@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > > > > > > > > > > A sunset or a rainbow would do it? I dreamt of a
rainbow
> > > last
> > > > > > night,
> > > > > > > > > > anyone
> > > > > > > > > > > know what that means?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > Melanie
> > > > > > > > > > > www.chovhani.com
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > naked ape <naked_a...@msn.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > > > > news:apfjto$1462m$1@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > > > > > > > > > I just had a thought. I can't think of a way to say
> > > Supreme
> > > > > > Being
> > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > picture. Maybe that's why I'm a Pantheist.))  Ape;)
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > "Karyn" <Karyn_Ca...@msn.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > > > > > news:apf3ff$111qh$2@ID-10225.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > You communicate very well with them.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Karyn
> > > > > > > > > > > > > "naked ape" <naked_a...@msn.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > > > > > > news:apf1sa$rq83$1@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I could, which I can't, I'd always
communicate
> > with
> > > > > > > pictures.
> > > > > > > > > ..
> > > > > > > > > > > > Ape;)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://jimhallas.com/
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Karyn" <Karyn_Ca...@msn.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > news:apec4j$q7gj$1@ID-10225.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, when we find something besides words to
> use
> > to
> > > > > > > > communicate
> > > > > > > > > > > > ideas,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > won't be a problem but, until then, it's all
we
> > have
> > > > to
> > > > > > work
> > > > > > > > > with.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karyn
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Chovhani" <chovh...@india.com> wrote in
message
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > news:Hlyu9.15320$Kf.1854480@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They get in the way, IMO.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Melanie
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.chovhani.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karyn <Karyn_Ca...@msn.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
news:apeavi$qphd$1@ID-10225.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes, but those semantics point to an
> important
> > > > > reality
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karyn
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Chovhani" <chovh...@india.com> wrote in
> > message
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > news:r_xu9.15304$Kf.1846510@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bloody semantics.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Melanie
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.chovhani.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karyn <Karyn_Ca...@msn.com> wrote in
> message
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > news:apea40$q12b$1@ID-10225.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, it depends on how one defines
> > > > > "Christian."
> > > > > > As
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > religion,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stink. As a relationship with the
> living,
> > > > > > liberating
> > > > > > > > > > Christ,
> > > > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > awsome.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Case in point, Dietrich Bonhoeffer,
who
> is
> > > > > > > considered
> > > > > > > > by
> > > > > > > > > > > many
> > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Christian martyr, refused to be called
> > > > > "Christian"
> > > > > > > > > because
> > > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > complicity
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of the German Christians with the
Third
> > > Reich
> > > > > > > combined
> > > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > fact
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > precious few of the theologians of his
> > time
> > > > had
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > mumbling
> > > > > > > > > > > > word
> > > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > say
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nazism. He totally gave up on the
> religion
> > > of
> > > > > > > > > Christianity
> > > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > order
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become faithful to Christ. Hence,
> > > > "religionless
> > > > > > > > > > > Christianity"
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karyn
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Chovhani" <chovh...@india.com> wrote
in
> > > > message
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > news:gHxu9.15291$Kf.1839634@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So what you're really saying is that
> the
> > > > > beliefs
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > deserve
> > > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > attacked
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aren't really very Christian!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Melanie
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.chovhani.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karyn <Karyn_Ca...@msn.com> wrote in
> > > message
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > news:ape8mo$q518$1@ID-10225.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I appreciate what you are saying
> here,
> > > > > Maris,
> > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > imho,
> > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Christianity"
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > responsible for the violation of
> > native
> > > > > > cultures
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > burning
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > times
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > needs
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to be attacked. I also believe
that
> > > > > Christians
> > > > > > > > need
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > denounce not only these practices,
> but
> > > the
> > > > > > sort
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > beliefs
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > led
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > them.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Somewhere along the line, a
religion
> > of
> > > > love
> > > > > > > > became
> > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > religion
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > violence
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and domination. One simply can not
> > love
> > > > > Jesus
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > justify
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > that.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karyn
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Maris" <marissmspaml...@msn.com>
> > wrote
> > > in
> > > > > > > message
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > news:ape7g6$qc21$1@ID-29845.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's sad that what anyone
believes
> > > > should
> > > > > be
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > point
> > > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > persecution.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > faith is really meant to do
that,
> or
> > > > allow
> > > > > > > that.
> > > > > > > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > > > > > > > sorry
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Christianity is under attack.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love and Light,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maris
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Follow your bliss.   (Joseph
> > Campbell)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Rien"
> <pheas...@pheasantsnest.com>
> > > > wrote
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > message
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > news:apc5jj$an13$1@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course Maris. No attack read
in
> > > your
> > > > > > post.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But facts are facts, yes?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rien.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Maris"
<marissmspaml...@msn.com>
> > > wrote
> > > > in
> > > > > > > > message
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > news:apbmro$5mr1$1@ID-29845.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What goes around, comes
around?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know that seems harsh, but
> > > > > Christianity
> > > > > > > has
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > history
> > > > > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > persecuting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > members of other faiths.
> > Missionary
> > > > > work
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > change
> > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > religions
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cultures.  Removing Native
> > American
> > > > > > children
> > > > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > > > > their
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > parents
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > putting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > them in church schools.  The
> > Native
> > > > > > > Americans,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > themselves.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Crusades.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Salem Witch Trials,
although
> > > those
> > > > > > > people
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > weren't
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > really
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "witches".
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With a couple of hours of
> > research,
> > > I
> > > > > > could
> > > > > > > > fill
> > > > > > > > > > > > several
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pages.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please don't view this as a
> flame
> > > > > attack.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have nothing against
> > Christianity,
> > > > > > > > understand.
> > > > > > > > > > > This
> > > > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > answer
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a question that has been
posted.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love and Light,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maris
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Follow your bliss.   (Joseph
> > > Campbell)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Rien"
> > <pheas...@pheasantsnest.com>
> > > > > wrote
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > message
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > news:ap9her$smv68$1@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I read in a Dutch newspaper
that
> > > > > > persecution
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Christians
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > increase, and that no other
> > religion
> > > > is
> > > > > > > > > persecuted
> > > > > > > > > > > > than
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Christian.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would that be?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rien.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

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