Love

[Rien]

as st.Paul says: Love is greater than faith and hope... because it never
ends...:-)
Rien.
-----------------

In the depth of my soul there is a wordless song.
Kahlil Gibran.
--------------

[Chovhani]

One of the things he got right, LOL.

--
Melanie
www.chovhani.com

Rien <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message
news:am5tm6$36364$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...

[Rien]

;-)

Rien.
-----------
"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message
news:ejEh9.2651$_S6.6...@news20.bellglobal.com...

[Cyra]

ahh, but you can Love.......... without being able to LIVE with a person ;-)

--
Cyra
"We can only be what we give ourselves the Power to Be"
A Cherokee Feast of Days
http://www.thesacredgrove.com
http://www.motocentral.com

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:%DKh9.2879$_S6.7...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Um, I think me and Rien are going to have to define what we're on about a
> bit better, re: love and Love.
>
> --
> Melanie
> www.chovhani.com
>
>
>
> naked ape <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:am7qat$3gd1e$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> > They still love me. I care about them. .. Ape:)

> >
> > "Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

> > news:3gEh9.2646$_S6.6...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > > I'm afraid I agree with Rien on this one. But I wonder Ape, ......just
> > > because they could no longer stay married to you, and stopped loving
> you,
> > > did they stop Loving you?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Melanie
> > > www.chovhani.com
> > >
> > >

[Rien]

I will be back on Love & love later.

But a preliminary thought crossed my mind:

"Methinks that all 'Love talk' is an attempt to word experiences experienced
before conscious experience.

Rien.
--------------

"Cyra" <cy...@thesacredgrove.com> wrote in message
news:am81q4$3er0u$1...@ID-49111.news.dfncis.de...

[Scheherazade]

How do you put an emotion into words? In order for others to know what you
are talking about, you have to appeal to a common experience.

It is like describing an odor to someone. It always starts out, "It smells
like . . . " We just don't have words for it, so we have to resort to
similes and mataphors, or parables.

Krystal

"Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

news:am845q$3g68l$2...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...

[Rien]

Of course.
Stick around and I will put some words to love and Love. The former is an
observation verifiable for all, the latter, yes, must be expressed in
analogies of some sort.
Rien.
---------------
"Scheherazade" <kryst...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:am8ddo$3jpp8$1...@ID-27780.news.dfncis.de...

[naked ape]

Not even God's love is unconditional, and no, I can't agree that 'special
love' is in reality concealed 'hate.' There's a universe of gray between
yin and yang. .. Ape;)

"Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

news:am8t8g$3n8ib$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...
> Here goes. Hope it is not too long.
> This piece popped out of my scrapbook. It stems from the time I was deeply
> involved in studying and facilitating "A Course in Miracles".
> This course is referring to the 'love' we talk about here as "Special
> relationships.
> Happy reading.
>
> Later on I will make a bold attempt to share my views on Love, that
aspect
> of life that is all embracing, makes no demands, and will never end.
> Rien.
> ------------
>
> THOUGHTS ON SPECIAL RELATIONSHIPS.
> More people seem to be uneasy about 'special relationships' than any other
> concept in 'A Course In Miracles*. Firstly, let us not feel guilty about
> our being in a special relationship. No one who walks this earth has not
> experienced the problem.
> Special relationships can be with spouses, lovers, friends, our children,
> parents or even Gurus or possessions. We can and usually do have special
> relationships with material things which we make into idols. We can have
> special love or special hate relationships.
> When we develop our awareness, we can look at our special hate
relationships
> honestly and see in them a reflection of ourselves. The aspect about
> others we dislike most is an aspect of us we are afraid to face. Through
the
> principles of forgiveness we can change our wrong perception of that
person
> and remove our fear of them (which is what hate really is).
> Our unfolding awareness shows us that the value we put on things or make
> idols of, shift and change from moment to moment never satisfying us for
> very long. When we finally realise what is going on we can gratefully
make
> use of what material goods we have without attachment or fear that their
> 'loss' would in any way make us unhappy. The abundance of the Universe
is
> always provided for by God, waiting only for our acceptance.
> The special 'love' relationship is without doubt the ego's greatest weapon
> and the last barrier to finding real and unchanging peace. In this world
we
> see ourselves as having certain needs or lack, believing that another
person
> can meet these needs with special attributes. This we call 'love'. If
> that other person sees in us that we can provide their special needs an
> alliance is formed with the intent of making both complete. Underlying
this
> wish is an ego distortion of that deep and ancient desire to return to
that
> blissful state of at-one-ment with all our brothers and our Creator.
> In reality egos can never join, they merely trade off part of their dream
> accepting for a while, someone else's illusion to make an ally against a
> supposedly hostile world poised ready to attack. While our fantasy roles
> are being fulfilled by that other person in a special relationship, we
seem
> content, but when one or both fails to fulfil the bargain they made, the
> other feels betrayed. The usual reaction to this position is to attempt
to
> make the other person feel guilty by reminding them that they are not
living
> up to our expectations of what they should be.
> We realise that we have invested our whole happiness with another ego and
> feel totally dependent on them instead of our Creator and the entire
> Sonship. This is why 'special love' is in reality concealed 'special
> hate' as deep down we really want to become aware that our happiness is
not
> dependent on another ego, but guaranteed by God. The moment we see our
> special partner taking an interest (real or imagined) in someone else we
> feel threatened and humiliated that the custodian of our happiness and
> completeness could treat us in such a way. Special love again reveals
> itself to be thinly disguised special hatred.
> As things worsen our egos often feel at this time the only solution is to
> substitute for this, another relationship to which our former goal was
quite
> appropriate. As we did not learn our lesson the first time around, we
find
> ourselves in another relationship having the same problems all over again.
>
>
> -----------------

> "Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

> news:am8mcl$3k80r$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...

[Rien]

What are God's conditions?
Ok, you are free to disagree of course, but does that imply agreement with
the rest of the article?
Rien.
------------

"naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:amacf1$464je$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[naked ape]

If you want His love, God insists that you love and obey Him, and if you
want His grace, you have to ask for it. If you want salvation, you have to
also accept His son as your Lord and Master. Those are conditions. ..
No, I didn't agree with the rest of your post. Love, like everything else,
comes in degrees, and no, there's no such thing as perfect love, or Love.)

Ape, who didn't agree with the rest of

"Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

news:amark3$4995d$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...

[Rien]

Hey... but this is not Ape the Pantheist talking ok?
Rien.
--------------

"naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:amb2mc$4ba1m$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[naked ape]

I'm not sure what you're asking. .. Ape;)

"Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

news:amb45v$48aqq$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...

[Rien]

Didn't think what you wrote about God is your belief?

Rien.
------------
"naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:amb695$4h5qq$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[naked ape]

Heck no. I was just looking into Christianity from the outside. Yes, I'm a
full-blown Pantheist. I might add that it's my belief that if it weren't for
sentient beings, the whole of the universe would be indifferent to itself.
Love doesn't exist unless it comes from another being similar to ourselves.
.. Ape;)

"Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

news:amb8b1$4171j$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...

[Rien]

exactly right.
The way it comes from, or goes to others needs our attention now ;-)

Rien.
------------
"naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:ambc4s$4af29$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[naked ape]

"Mysteries are not to be solved. The eye goes blind when it only wants to
see why."
Rumi

"Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

news:ambegd$4esli$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

Too true.
--
Melanie
www.chovhani.com

Cyra <cy...@thesacredgrove.com> wrote in message
news:am81q4$3er0u$1...@ID-49111.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

Exactly.

--
Melanie
www.chovhani.com

Scheherazade <kryst...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:am8ddo$3jpp8$1...@ID-27780.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

Yes.

--
Melanie
www.chovhani.com

Rien <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message
news:am845q$3g68l$2...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

Interesting. They do say the line between "love" and hate is very thin.

--
Melanie
www.chovhani.com

Rien <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

> "Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

> news:am8mcl$3k80r$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

God's love is UTTERLY unconditional.

--
Melanie
www.chovhani.com

naked ape <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:amacf1$464je$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

Oh that God....well, I don't like him.

--
Melanie
www.chovhani.com

naked ape <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:amb2mc$4ba1m$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

Ah, but Love = Lifeforce.

--
Melanie
www.chovhani.com

naked ape <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:ambc4s$4af29$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Eve]

You know, I think that's only true if you believe in *that* god. If you
don't, there's really no reason to rant and rail about a set of
conditions that exists only if you believe they do (which I *think* is
the point of Rien's post.)

Make sense?

Eve

"naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:amb2mc$4ba1m$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[naked ape]

Could be that's why divorces are so messy. .. Ape;)

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:OQji9.7265$_S6.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...

[naked ape]

If you mean by love that the universe gives us everything we need and asks
nothing in return, then yes, I agree. .. Ape;)
--
"Mystics are experts in laziness. They rely on it, because they continuously
see God working all around them. The harvest keeps coming in, yet they never
even did the plowing!" Rumi

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:6Rji9.7266$_S6.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...

[naked ape]

Yes, that God is one mean bastard. Lucky thing he's a figment of somebody's
imagination. .. Ape;)

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:lRji9.7267$_S6.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...

[Rien]

But... but... so are all the others, yes?
Rien.
--------------

"naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:amcuui$4rckp$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Rien]

That 'love' is conditional.
Comply or I will get rid of you and the power you have over me.
Is true in the macrocosmos as well (As we see today):-)
Rien.
-------------------

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:OQji9.7265$_S6.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...

[naked ape]

Sounds nice, but you can't show any evidence to support the claim. .. Ape;)

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:HRji9.7268$_S6.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...

[naked ape]

Could be, but then I'm not sure which God those who follow "A Course in
Miracles" believe in, but I did think it was the same one as the Christians
believe in. .. Ape;)

"Eve" <elindispamm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:amcl6a$4o7ma$1...@ID-10282.news.dfncis.de...

[naked ape]

Yes, there are other imaginary Gods. .. Ape;)

"Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

news:amd8lh$4ct1p$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...

[Rien]

except yours????

Rien.
------------
"naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:amdl6n$50e2g$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Rien]

That's exactly what I meant to say. ;-)
Rien.
---------------

"Eve" <elindispamm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:amcl6a$4o7ma$1...@ID-10282.news.dfncis.de...

[naked ape]

Last time I checked, the Universe wasn't imaginary. .. Ape;)
--

"Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

news:ame992$4ogoo$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...

[Rien]

Now about Love :).
From my notes, and experience I glean the following:

God is Love.
But please note: when I say that G... word I am not referring to a personal
entity residing half in and half outside of the universe. My G.. word is
just that, a word to point to something (this again cannot be defined) deep
inside me. So deep that it is the very essence of my being. Melanie, and
others, named that the Life Force. It is the eternally creative self, that
in order it may know itself flows onto otherness. Love always seeks to know
itself in mirroring itself onto otherness. Since we have shed the bicameral
mind and became conscious of ourselves we can 'know', 'feel' how the eternal
resonates within us. It is the mystical awareness of being.
Please also note that the L... word is just like the G... word, an attempt
to describe that process.

God, the Force... manifests itself in our world in at least three ways. And
here we learn how Love is not a black and white 'you do or you don't'
phenomenon that has confused us for a long time.

1. Altruism.
It is also known as love to the neighbour. It is the Divine Love for
individuals.

2. Charity.
This Love is flowing to humanity as a whole. It sees itself has having
certain insights, beliefs, material goods, privileged over those less or
underprivileged. We can think of proselytising, mission, food and clothing
appeals etc.
It is the divine push through 'me' towards wellbeing of others.
3. Amor.
It is the word used to point to Love as the desire to break through the
boundary called 'aloneness'. 'It is not good for man to be alone', God said.
Love called Amor is yearning for oneness. In its deepest sense it is
yearning for God, the eternal, the Force. It is the tension between the
'knowledge' of the eternal, and the sense of being separate from it. The
mystic tries to find that awareness totally within the individual self. The
Force directs us into the area where we can see the eternal in the other.
'Looking' at the beloved means seeing my eternal self in the other.

Did Altruism and Charity not require reciprocity. Amor does. It is in the
mutual act of unconditional giving and receiving that, in a mystical sense,
eternity is manifest in time and space with the sexual intimacy as the
epitome of the awareness that God is Love.

Rien.
--------------.

[Rien]

But the God aspect of it?

Rien.
--------------
"naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:amebpq$56v2k$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

Oh yes indeed. Divorce is an ugly thing.

--
Melanie
www.chovhani.com

naked ape <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:amcukc$4l988$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

That's more of a description, so it can't be. If a person chooses to call
the Universe God, he's just naming something that we know exists. Describing
the material Universe as Divine is an attitude, an opinion. It changes
nothing.

--
Melanie
www.chovhani.com

Rien <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

news:amegkg$5783u$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

LOL, good answer!

--
Melanie
www.chovhani.com

naked ape <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:amebpq$56v2k$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

Oh I like this, especially this bit:

"So deep that it is the very essence of my being. Melanie, and others, named
that the Life Force. It is the eternally creative self, that in order it may
know itself flows onto otherness. Love always seeks to know itself in
mirroring itself onto otherness."

That's it. In a nutshell.

--
Melanie
www.chovhani.com

Rien <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

news:amee0i$56f66$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

I certainly hope so, or I'm in eternal deepest doo-doo. If the Christians
are right, I stand to have a big argument with the bearded one, and get
slung out of heaven..........hang on, this sounds familiar. Was Lucifer just
a dude who spoke his mind? Oh, there's a concept.............

--
Melanie
www.chovhani.com

naked ape <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:amcuui$4rckp$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

Yep, that's it:)

--
Melanie
www.chovhani.com

naked ape <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:amcuqh$4ul6s$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

Well you'd have a hard time showing any evidence of love at all. It's not
something you can measure with instruments, photograph, capture, create or
destroy. The same can be said of the lifeforce. Yet most people are familiar
with both. Funny that.

--
Melanie
www.chovhani.com

naked ape <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:amdk7o$554b3$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[naked ape]

So, in essence, you are saying that God is within you as you, correct? Now
as long as you credit the Life Force (God) within you for love, why don't
you also credit it for hate? Is it not the source of all emotions? Ape;)

"Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

news:amee0i$56f66$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...

[naked ape]

Love is just one emotion that wants to know itself. .. Ape;)

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:K9Ei9.8911$_S6.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...

[naked ape]

The only reason the Universe has a God aspect is because I give it one. ..
Ape:)
--
"When you try to change any single thing, you find it hitched to everything
else in the universe."
John Muir

"Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

news:amegkg$5783u$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...

[naked ape]

I feel wonder when I view the Universe, and it's a mystery. That's why I say
it is Divine. It is energy, the Force manifesting itself as all things, and
as us, it abstracts itself. .. Ape;)

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:6%Di9.8907$_S6.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...

[Rien]

exactly.:)
Rien.

--------
"naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:amfj2m$57ig4$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Eve]

Doesn't make that aspect any less real, either . . . ;)
e

[Rien]

Fear is the opposite of Love, not hate.
Hate is the offspring of fear :-).

Fear arises when I see myself separate from 'the Force', lost and alone in
a world of hostile objects.

Rien.
-----------------

"naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:amfhup$5j427$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Rien]

'God' creating 'God'... fascinating thought , huh?
However, while writing that I thought: 'Are we still sane?'
LOL.
Rien.
---------------
"Eve" <eli...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:B9B0BE9A.10FC0%eli...@hotmail.com...

[Eve]

heh - do you mean sane individually, or collectively?

This would have bearing on the sanity of god, eh?

[Rien]

Sane in concocting thoughts like 'God creating God', I meant.

Rien.

-------------
"Eve" <eli...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:B9B0E3A1.10FE2%eli...@hotmail.com...

[Ulunuhi]

indeed you can Love many things and eat them as well
--
"The life of a man is a circle from childhood to childhood, and so it is in
everything where
power moves."
- Black Elk, Oglala Sioux wichasha wakon

[Ulunuhi]

I know I am late to this but hope more than one says love is not expecting
anything to "liv(e) up to our expectations "

I do not believe that is love but self love which is very different

--
"The life of a man is a circle from childhood to childhood, and so it is in
everything where
power moves."
- Black Elk, Oglala Sioux wichasha wakon

"Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

[Ulunuhi]

"Love doesn't exist unless it comes from another being similar to
ourselves."

I would disagree

--
"The life of a man is a circle from childhood to childhood, and so it is in
everything where
power moves."
- Black Elk, Oglala Sioux wichasha wakon

"naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:ambc4s$4af29$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> Heck no. I was just looking into Christianity from the outside. Yes, I'm a
> full-blown Pantheist. I might add that it's my belief that if it weren't
for
> sentient beings, the whole of the universe would be indifferent to itself.
> Love doesn't exist unless it comes from another being similar to
ourselves.
> .. Ape;)
>

> "Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

> news:amb8b1$4171j$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...
> > Didn't think what you wrote about God is your belief?
> > Rien.
> > ------------

> > "naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

> > news:amb695$4h5qq$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> > > I'm not sure what you're asking. .. Ape;)
> > >

> > > "Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

> > > news:amb45v$48aqq$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > Hey... but this is not Ape the Pantheist talking ok?
> > > > Rien.
> > > > --------------
> > > >

> > > > "naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

> > > > news:amb2mc$4ba1m$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > > If you want His love, God insists that you love and obey Him, and
if
> > you
> > > > > want His grace, you have to ask for it. If you want salvation, you
> > have
> > > to
> > > > > also accept His son as your Lord and Master. Those are conditions.
> ..
> > > > > No, I didn't agree with the rest of your post. Love, like
everything
> > > else,
> > > > > comes in degrees, and no, there's no such thing as perfect love,
or
> > > Love.)
> > > > >
> > > > > Ape, who didn't agree with the rest of

> > > > > "Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

> > > > > news:amark3$4995d$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > > > What are God's conditions?
> > > > > > Ok, you are free to disagree of course, but does that imply
> > agreement
> > > > with
> > > > > > the rest of the article?
> > > > > > Rien.
> > > > > > ------------

> > > > > > "naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

> > > > > > news:amacf1$464je$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > > > > Not even God's love is unconditional, and no, I can't agree
that

> > > > > 'special

> > > > > > > love' is in reality concealed 'hate.' There's a universe of
> gray
> > > > > between
> > > > > > > yin and yang. .. Ape;)
> > > > > > >

[Ulunuhi]

what is God (I know being a butt - but we all view this being or group of
beings very differently)

--
"The life of a man is a circle from childhood to childhood, and so it is in
everything where
power moves."
- Black Elk, Oglala Sioux wichasha wakon

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:6Rji9.7266$_S6.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> God's love is UTTERLY unconditional.
>

[Ulunuhi]

I don't know him

--
"The life of a man is a circle from childhood to childhood, and so it is in
everything where
power moves."
- Black Elk, Oglala Sioux wichasha wakon

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:lRji9.7267$_S6.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Oh that God....well, I don't like him.
>

> --
> Melanie
> www.chovhani.com
>
>
>
> naked ape <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

> news:amb2mc$4ba1m$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> > If you want His love, God insists that you love and obey Him, and if you
> > want His grace, you have to ask for it. If you want salvation, you have
to
> > also accept His son as your Lord and Master. Those are conditions. ..
> > No, I didn't agree with the rest of your post. Love, like everything
else,
> > comes in degrees, and no, there's no such thing as perfect love, or
Love.)
> >
> > Ape, who didn't agree with the rest of

> > "Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

> > news:amark3$4995d$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...
> > > What are God's conditions?
> > > Ok, you are free to disagree of course, but does that imply agreement
> with
> > > the rest of the article?
> > > Rien.
> > > ------------

[Ulunuhi]

it does ask for something in return. It asks that you live, that you
complete your life cycle what ever that may be.

--
"The life of a man is a circle from childhood to childhood, and so it is in
everything where
power moves."
- Black Elk, Oglala Sioux wichasha wakon

"naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:amcuqh$4ul6s$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> If you mean by love that the universe gives us everything we need and asks
> nothing in return, then yes, I agree. .. Ape;)
> --
> "Mystics are experts in laziness. They rely on it, because they
continuously
> see God working all around them. The harvest keeps coming in, yet they
never
> even did the plowing!" Rumi
>

> "Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

> news:6Rji9.7266$_S6.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > God's love is UTTERLY unconditional.
> >

> > --
> > Melanie
> > www.chovhani.com
> >
> >
> >
> > naked ape <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

[Ulunuhi]

If you believe so, then could be.

--
"The life of a man is a circle from childhood to childhood, and so it is in
everything where
power moves."
- Black Elk, Oglala Sioux wichasha wakon

"Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

news:amd8lh$4ct1p$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...
> But... but... so are all the others, yes?
> Rien.
> --------------

> "naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

> news:amcuui$4rckp$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> > Yes, that God is one mean bastard. Lucky thing he's a figment of
> somebody's

> > imagination. .. Ape;)

> >
> > "Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

> > news:lRji9.7267$_S6.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > > Oh that God....well, I don't like him.
> > >

> > > --
> > > Melanie
> > > www.chovhani.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > naked ape <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

> > > news:amb2mc$4ba1m$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > If you want His love, God insists that you love and obey Him, and if
> you
> > > > want His grace, you have to ask for it. If you want salvation, you
> have
> > to
> > > > also accept His son as your Lord and Master. Those are conditions.
..
> > > > No, I didn't agree with the rest of your post. Love, like everything
> > else,
> > > > comes in degrees, and no, there's no such thing as perfect love, or
> > Love.)
> > > >
> > > > Ape, who didn't agree with the rest of

> > > > "Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

> > > > news:amark3$4995d$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > > What are God's conditions?
> > > > > Ok, you are free to disagree of course, but does that imply
> agreement
> > > with
> > > > > the rest of the article?
> > > > > Rien.
> > > > > ------------

[Ulunuhi]

or said another way - Love is

--
"The life of a man is a circle from childhood to childhood, and so it is in
everything where
power moves."
- Black Elk, Oglala Sioux wichasha wakon

"Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

[Ulunuhi]

That is how those who worship the Peacock Angel (if I remembered the name
right - the small group of Summarians in Iraq) believe.

--
"The life of a man is a circle from childhood to childhood, and so it is in
everything where
power moves."
- Black Elk, Oglala Sioux wichasha wakon

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message
news:lYDi9.8905$_S6.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...

[Ulunuhi]

I think that when one finds they have to say "Oops I made a mistake you are
not the mate to my soul (or spirit - however you see it)" it is often anger
at one's self that drives the messiness.

--
"The life of a man is a circle from childhood to childhood, and so it is in
everything where
power moves."
- Black Elk, Oglala Sioux wichasha wakon

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:AVDi9.8903$_S6.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Oh yes indeed. Divorce is an ugly thing.

>
> --
> Melanie
> www.chovhani.com
>
>
>
> naked ape <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

> news:amcukc$4l988$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> > Could be that's why divorces are so messy. .. Ape;)

> >
> > "Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

> > news:OQji9.7265$_S6.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > > Interesting. They do say the line between "love" and hate is very
thin.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Melanie
> > > www.chovhani.com

[Ulunuhi]

For me it/she/he/they are alive and therefore I do not create them. I am a
part of it all not the creator or it all.

--
"The life of a man is a circle from childhood to childhood, and so it is in
everything where
power moves."
- Black Elk, Oglala Sioux wichasha wakon

"Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message
news:amfr0m$5ds4g$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...

[Ulunuhi]

I would agree Fear begets Hate as over weaning ambition can beget Fear, a
Fear that is different than say Fear of the unknown. Not sure the end
result is much different since both can rot great destruction and pain if
allowed to go unchecked.

--
"The life of a man is a circle from childhood to childhood, and so it is in
everything where
power moves."
- Black Elk, Oglala Sioux wichasha wakon

"Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message
news:amg3if$5ieus$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...

[Rien]

I was only referring to Ape's:

"The only reason the Universe has a God aspect is because I give it one"

Rien.
-----------
"Ulunuhi" <nola...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ylNi9.4839$XE1.4...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

[Rien]

Yah is love minus the cap. L.
Rien.

---------
"Ulunuhi" <nola...@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:F_Mi9.4789$XE1.4...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

[Ulunuhi]

ah

--
"The life of a man is a circle from childhood to childhood, and so it is in
everything where
power moves."
- Black Elk, Oglala Sioux wichasha wakon

"Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

news:amg8k6$5krbb$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...

[Ulunuhi]

love or Love same word to describe a complex thing. I don't see a
difference between love and Love

--
"The life of a man is a circle from childhood to childhood, and so it is in
everything where
power moves."
- Black Elk, Oglala Sioux wichasha wakon

"Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

news:amg8pb$5lfiu$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...

[naked ape]

Not to worry. The Christians are right about many things, but not that.
There is no Supreme Naked Ape. .. Ape:)

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:lYDi9.8905$_S6.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> I certainly hope so, or I'm in eternal deepest doo-doo. If the Christians
> are right, I stand to have a big argument with the bearded one, and get
> slung out of heaven..........hang on, this sounds familiar. Was Lucifer
just
> a dude who spoke his mind? Oh, there's a concept.............
>

> --
> Melanie
> www.chovhani.com
>
>
>
> naked ape <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

> news:amcuui$4rckp$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> > Yes, that God is one mean bastard. Lucky thing he's a figment of
> somebody's

> > imagination. .. Ape;)

> >
> > "Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

> > news:lRji9.7267$_S6.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > > Oh that God....well, I don't like him.
> > >

> > > --
> > > Melanie
> > > www.chovhani.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > naked ape <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

> > > news:amb2mc$4ba1m$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > If you want His love, God insists that you love and obey Him, and if
> you
> > > > want His grace, you have to ask for it. If you want salvation, you
> have
> > to
> > > > also accept His son as your Lord and Master. Those are conditions.
..
> > > > No, I didn't agree with the rest of your post. Love, like everything
> > else,
> > > > comes in degrees, and no, there's no such thing as perfect love, or
> > Love.)
> > > >
> > > > Ape, who didn't agree with the rest of

> > > > "Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

> > > > news:amark3$4995d$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > > What are God's conditions?
> > > > > Ok, you are free to disagree of course, but does that imply
> agreement
> > > with
> > > > > the rest of the article?
> > > > > Rien.
> > > > > ------------

> > > > > "naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

> > > > > news:amacf1$464je$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > > > Not even God's love is unconditional, and no, I can't agree that

> > > > 'special

> > > > > > love' is in reality concealed 'hate.' There's a universe of
gray
> > > > between
> > > > > > yin and yang. .. Ape;)
> > > > > >

[naked ape]

I think Rien has been confused by my semantics. I should drop the word God
from any and all discussion of my beliefs. .. Ape;)

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:PZDi9.8906$_S6.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> LOL, good answer!

>
> --
> Melanie
> www.chovhani.com
>
>
>
> naked ape <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

> news:amebpq$56v2k$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> > Last time I checked, the Universe wasn't imaginary. .. Ape;)
> > --
> >

> > "Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

> > news:ame992$4ogoo$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...
> > > except yours????

> > > Rien.
> > > ------------
> > > "naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

> > > news:amdl6n$50e2g$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > Yes, there are other imaginary Gods. .. Ape;)

> > > >
> > > > "Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

> > > > news:amd8lh$4ct1p$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > > But... but... so are all the others, yes?
> > > > > Rien.
> > > > > --------------

[naked ape]

God as manifested by me is a manic-depressive. .. Ape;))

"Eve" <eli...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:B9B0E3A1.10FE2%eli...@hotmail.com...

[naked ape]

No, nothing makes the Universe any less real. .. Ape:))

"Eve" <eli...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:B9B0BE9A.10FC0%eli...@hotmail.com...

[naked ape]

Love is Doodle licking my face. .. Ape;)

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:93Ei9.8909$_S6.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Well you'd have a hard time showing any evidence of love at all. It's not
> something you can measure with instruments, photograph, capture, create or
> destroy. The same can be said of the lifeforce. Yet most people are
familiar
> with both. Funny that.

>
> --
> Melanie
> www.chovhani.com
>
>
>
> naked ape <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

> news:amdk7o$554b3$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> > Sounds nice, but you can't show any evidence to support the claim. ..

> Ape;)
> >
> > "Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

> > news:HRji9.7268$_S6.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > > Ah, but Love = Lifeforce.

> > >
> > > --
> > > Melanie
> > > www.chovhani.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > naked ape <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

> > > news:ambc4s$4af29$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > Heck no. I was just looking into Christianity from the outside. Yes,
> I'm
> > a
> > > > full-blown Pantheist. I might add that it's my belief that if it
> weren't
> > > for
> > > > sentient beings, the whole of the universe would be indifferent to
> > itself.
> > > > Love doesn't exist unless it comes from another being similar to
> > > ourselves.

> > > > .. Ape;)
> > > >
> > > > "Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

> > > > news:amb8b1$4171j$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > > Didn't think what you wrote about God is your belief?

> > > > > Rien.
> > > > > ------------
> > > > > "naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

> > > > > news:amb695$4h5qq$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > > > I'm not sure what you're asking. .. Ape;)

> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

> > > > > > news:amb45v$48aqq$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > > > > Hey... but this is not Ape the Pantheist talking ok?

> > > > > > > Rien.
> > > > > > > --------------
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

[naked ape]

God recognizing God not through us, but as us. ..
Ape:)
--
"The eye with which I see God is the same eye with which God sees me."
Meister Eckhart

"Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

news:amg4c4$5g120$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...

[Rien]

Well. in my ever so humble opinion :-) the difference is that the 'l' word
is the one that comes and goes )_I dubbed that sticky love) whereas the 'L'
never ends.
Rien, master of coining phrases.
-------.
-----------

"Ulunuhi" <nola...@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:t_Ni9.4933$XE1.4...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

[naked ape]

You've created the it/she/he/they you were looking for. Who gave you the
idea?
Ape:)

"Ulunuhi" <nola...@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:ylNi9.4839$XE1.4...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

[naked ape]

Okay, why not credit that God within you for fear, as well as love?
Ape:)
--
Abandon the search for God and the creation and other matters of a similar
sort. Look for him by taking yourself as the starting point. Learn who it is
within you who makes everything his own and says, "My God, my mind, my
thought, my soul, my body." Learn the source of sorrow, joy, love, hate. If
you carefully investigate these matters you will find him in yourself. ..
Monoimus, a Gnostic teacher. ..

"Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

news:amg3if$5ieus$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...
> Fear is the opposite of Love, not hate.
> Hate is the offspring of fear :-).
>
> Fear arises when I see myself separate from 'the Force', lost and alone
in
> a world of hostile objects.
>
> Rien.
> -----------------

> "naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

> news:amfhup$5j427$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> > So, in essence, you are saying that God is within you as you, correct?
Now
> > as long as you credit the Life Force (God) within you for love, why
don't
> > you also credit it for hate? Is it not the source of all emotions?

Ape;)
> >
> > "Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

[Ulunuhi]

love that comes and goes isn't love - affection maybe but not love

--
"The life of a man is a circle from childhood to childhood, and so it is in
everything where
power moves."
- Black Elk, Oglala Sioux wichasha wakon

"Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

news:amgb4a$5n89p$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...

[Ulunuhi]

yes that is love :-)

--
"The life of a man is a circle from childhood to childhood, and so it is in
everything where
power moves."
- Black Elk, Oglala Sioux wichasha wakon

"naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:amgato$5nkt7$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Ulunuhi]

so you believe

--
"The life of a man is a circle from childhood to childhood, and so it is in
everything where
power moves."
- Black Elk, Oglala Sioux wichasha wakon

"naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:amgbai$5ljup$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[naked ape]

Why do you disagree?

"Ulunuhi" <nola...@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:41Ni9.4798$XE1.4...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

> "Love doesn't exist unless it comes from another being similar to
> ourselves."
>

> I would disagree

> --
> "The life of a man is a circle from childhood to childhood, and so it is
in
> everything where
> power moves."
> - Black Elk, Oglala Sioux wichasha wakon
>
> "naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

> news:ambc4s$4af29$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> > Heck no. I was just looking into Christianity from the outside. Yes, I'm
a
> > full-blown Pantheist. I might add that it's my belief that if it weren't
> for
> > sentient beings, the whole of the universe would be indifferent to
itself.
> > Love doesn't exist unless it comes from another being similar to
> ourselves.

> > .. Ape;)
> >
> > "Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

> > news:amb8b1$4171j$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...
> > > Didn't think what you wrote about God is your belief?

> > > Rien.
> > > ------------
> > > "naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

> > > news:amb695$4h5qq$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > I'm not sure what you're asking. .. Ape;)

> > > >
> > > > "Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

> > > > news:amb45v$48aqq$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > > Hey... but this is not Ape the Pantheist talking ok?

> > > > > Rien.
> > > > > --------------
> > > > >
> > > > > "naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

[naked ape]

There may be a difference in degree, as varied as the space between yin and
yang. ..
Ape;)

"Ulunuhi" <nola...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:t_Ni9.4933$XE1.4...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

[naked ape]

What asks that I live, etc.?

"Ulunuhi" <nola...@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:i6Ni9.4806$XE1.4...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

[Rien]

Can't be done Ape.
Fear is my creation.
As I said, fear pops up when I forget the 'God' = Love within and I turn to
the external world to fill my now empty self with pseudo, 'special' love.
Rien.

--------------
"naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:amgbg0$5k3sg$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Rien]

Yah... a nutshell.

The silence of silence envelops me like an oyster in the shell.
Rien.
--------------

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:K9Ei9.8911$_S6.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Oh I like this, especially this bit:

>
> "So deep that it is the very essence of my being. Melanie, and others,
named
> that the Life Force. It is the eternally creative self, that in order it
may
> know itself flows onto otherness. Love always seeks to know itself in
> mirroring itself onto otherness."
>

> That's it. In a nutshell.
>
> --
> Melanie
> www.chovhani.com

[Cyra]

as sane as any other theory on "God" ;-)

--
Cyra
"We can only be what we give ourselves the Power to Be"
A Cherokee Feast of Days
http://www.thesacredgrove.com
http://www.motocentral.com

"Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

news:amg5lc$5m16o$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...
> Sane in concocting thoughts like 'God creating God', I meant.
>
> Rien.

> -------------
> "Eve" <eli...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

> news:B9B0E3A1.10FE2%eli...@hotmail.com...
> > heh - do you mean sane individually, or collectively?
> >
> > This would have bearing on the sanity of god, eh?
> >
> >

> > > From: "Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com>
> > > Newsgroups: alt.lifestyle.all-faiths

> > > Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 07:33:57 +1000
> > > Subject: Re: Love
> > >

> > > 'God' creating 'God'... fascinating thought , huh?
> > > However, while writing that I thought: 'Are we still sane?'
> > > LOL.
> > > Rien.
> > > ---------------
> > > "Eve" <eli...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:B9B0BE9A.10FC0%eli...@hotmail.com...
> > >> Doesn't make that aspect any less real, either . . . ;)
> > >> e
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> From: "Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com>
> > >>> Newsgroups: alt.lifestyle.all-faiths
> > >>> Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 04:54:17 +1000
> > >>> Subject: Re: Love
> > >>>
> > >>> exactly.:)
> > >>> Rien.
> > >>> --------

> > >>> "naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

> > >>> news:amfj2m$57ig4$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> > >>>> The only reason the Universe has a God aspect is because I give it
> one.
> > > ..
> > >>>> Ape:)
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> "When you try to change any single thing, you find it hitched to
> > >>> everything
> > >>>> else in the universe."
> > >>>> John Muir
> > >>>>

> > >>>> "Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

> > >>>> news:amegkg$5783u$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...
> > >>>>> But the God aspect of it?
> > >>>>> Rien.
> > >>>>> --------------

> > >>>>> "naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

> > >>>>> news:amebpq$56v2k$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> > >>>>>> Last time I checked, the Universe wasn't imaginary. .. Ape;)
> > >>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>>> "Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

> > >>>>>> news:ame992$4ogoo$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...
> > >>>>>>> except yours????
> > >>>>>>> Rien.
> > >>>>>>> ------------

> > >>>>>>> "naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

> > >>>>>>> news:amdl6n$50e2g$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> > >>>>>>>> Yes, there are other imaginary Gods. .. Ape;)
> > >>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>> "Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

> > >>>>>>>> news:amd8lh$4ct1p$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...
> > >>>>>>>>> But... but... so are all the others, yes?
> > >>>>>>>>> Rien.
> > >>>>>>>>> --------------

> > >>>>>>>>> "naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

> > >>>>>>>>> news:amcuui$4rckp$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> > >>>>>>>>>> Yes, that God is one mean bastard. Lucky thing he's a
figment
> > >>>> of
> > >>>>>>>>> somebody's

> > >>>>>>>>>> imagination. .. Ape;)

> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> "Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

> > >>>>>>>>>> news:lRji9.7267$_S6.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Oh that God....well, I don't like him.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Melanie
> > >>>>>>>>>>> www.chovhani.com
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> naked ape <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

> > >>>>>>>>>>> news:amb2mc$4ba1m$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> If you want His love, God insists that you love and obey
> > >>>> Him,
> > >>>>>> and
> > >>>>>>> if
> > >>>>>>>>> you
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> want His grace, you have to ask for it. If you want
> > >>>> salvation,
> > >>>>>> you
> > >>>>>>>>> have
> > >>>>>>>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> also accept His son as your Lord and Master. Those are
> > >>>>>> conditions.
> > >>>>>>>> ..
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> No, I didn't agree with the rest of your post. Love, like
> > >>>>>>> everything
> > >>>>>>>>>> else,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> comes in degrees, and no, there's no such thing as perfect
> > >>>>> love,
> > >>>>>>> or
> > >>>>>>>>>> Love.)
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Ape, who didn't agree with the rest of

> > >>>>>>>>>>>> "Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

> > >>>>>>>>>>>> news:amark3$4995d$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> What are God's conditions?
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok, you are free to disagree of course, but does that
> > >>>> imply
> > >>>>>>>>> agreement
> > >>>>>>>>>>> with
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the rest of the article?
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Rien.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------

> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> "naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> news:amacf1$464je$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not even God's love is unconditional, and no, I can't
> > >>>>> agree
> > >>>>>>> that
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> 'special
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> love' is in reality concealed 'hate.' There's a
> > >>>> universe
> > >>>>> of
> > >>>>>>>> gray
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> between
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> yin and yang. .. Ape;)
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

[Cyra]

yes.......... but society tends to frown on humans devouring their young
when necessary ;-)

--
Cyra
"We can only be what we give ourselves the Power to Be"
A Cherokee Feast of Days
http://www.thesacredgrove.com
http://www.motocentral.com

"Ulunuhi" <nola...@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:3XMi9.4781$XE1.4...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> indeed you can Love many things and eat them as well

> --
> "The life of a man is a circle from childhood to childhood, and so it is
in
> everything where
> power moves."
> - Black Elk, Oglala Sioux wichasha wakon
>

[Cyra]

or for us lazy typists it just depends on mood? ;-)

--
Cyra
"We can only be what we give ourselves the Power to Be"
A Cherokee Feast of Days
http://www.thesacredgrove.com
http://www.motocentral.com

"Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

news:amgb4a$5n89p$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...

[naked ape]

Love is also you're creation. It comes from within you as you. .. Ape:)

"Rien" <phea...@pheasantsnest.com> wrote in message

news:amh1u4$5s65a$1...@ID-151337.news.dfncis.de...

[Ulunuhi]

Life the Universe and Everything :-)

--
"The life of a man is a circle from childhood to childhood, and so it is in
everything where
power moves."
- Black Elk, Oglala Sioux wichasha wakon

"naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:amgdk1$5kta7$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Ulunuhi]

love does not require reciprocation - nor is it required that the loved be
similar to the one loving.

--
"The life of a man is a circle from childhood to childhood, and so it is in
everything where
power moves."
- Black Elk, Oglala Sioux wichasha wakon

"naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:amgdh0$5tmo0$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[naked ape]

Hey, if that's the case, all of that also insists that I eventually die. ..
Ape;)

"Ulunuhi" <nola...@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:LY1j9.6367$XE1.5...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

[naked ape]

I didn't say love had to be reciprocal. What I did say was that love only
comes from beings 'similar' to ourselves. It's found no where else in
Nature. .. Ape;)

"Ulunuhi" <nola...@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:DY1j9.6364$XE1.5...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

[Ulunuhi]

I still disagree :-)

--
"The life of a man is a circle from childhood to childhood, and so it is in
everything where
power moves."
- Black Elk, Oglala Sioux wichasha wakon

"naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:amibbi$606fg$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Ulunuhi]

death is a part of life. it is a cycle

--
"The life of a man is a circle from childhood to childhood, and so it is in
everything where
power moves."
- Black Elk, Oglala Sioux wichasha wakon

"naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:amibe3$5s6as$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[naked ape]

Yes, although death is, from a subjective point of view, the end of life.
That pattern of energy that was uniquely *you* collapses never to reoccur.
Our biology goes on to become other things but not the one time event that
was each of us. .. Ape;)

"Ulunuhi" <nola...@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:Mq2j9.6421$XE1.5...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

[naked ape]

Do you have an example?

"Ulunuhi" <nola...@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:9k2j9.6412$XE1.5...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

[Ulunuhi]

that is the shell, the spirit/soul/spark that energy that is uniquely you
goes on. It also changes but it goes on. That is also part of the cycle

--
"The life of a man is a circle from childhood to childhood, and so it is in
everything where
power moves."
- Black Elk, Oglala Sioux wichasha wakon

"naked ape" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:amici8$5s2cs$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...