Ancient knowledge

[Chovhani]

Well that's the whole point isn't it? We don't know! That's why so many
orders claim to be the link in the chain, i.e. Masons, Knights Templar,
O.T.O. etc and to a certain extent various religious groups who say they
have "the Truth". If you've ever sen Fahrenheit 451 then you know how human
beings can become repositories of knowledge, so maybe we only lost some of
it, or what? We don't know.

--
Melanie

http://www.geocities.com/chovhani2001
Where do you find the most fish?

Between the head and the tail.

Look at things DIFFERENTLY today!

Naked_Apes <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:9q50al$m76a9$2...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> If the scrolls were destroyed millenniums ago, where did the authors of
> those modern books get their information? Ape;)
>
> "Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message
> news:9q4q23$lnjv0$1...@ID-10218.news.dfncis.de...
> > I don't. I'm talking there of modern books.

--
Melanie

http://www.geocities.com/chovhani2001
Where do you find the most fish?

Between the head and the tail.

Look at things DIFFERENTLY today!

[Naked_Apes]

So all of this "modern" information is as reliable as Lord of the Rings.
Ape;)

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:9q9i15$med7u$1...@ID-10218.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

Reliable? It's not supposed to.......what do you think we are talking about
here?

--
Melanie

http://www.geocities.com/chovhani2001
Where do you find the most fish?

Between the head and the tail.

Look at things DIFFERENTLY today!

Naked_Apes <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9q9ouh$mplfu$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Naked_Apes]

Ancient knowledge. ..

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:9q9p9k$lptti$1...@ID-10218.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

Um.......it's simple stuff, I think you're looking for something too
complex.

--
Melanie

http://www.geocities.com/chovhani2001
Where do you find the most fish?

Between the head and the tail.

Look at things DIFFERENTLY today!

Naked_Apes <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qa0n8$mk4jv$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Naked_Apes]

So where does this "simple stuff" come from? Ape;)

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:9qatbs$mtjn2$1...@ID-10218.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

It's ancient, sheesh.

--
Melanie

http://www.geocities.com/chovhani2001
Where do you find the most fish?

Between the head and the tail.

Look at things DIFFERENTLY today!

Naked_Apes <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qb3od$mmlbb$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Naked_Apes]

But if it was lost when the library in Alexandria was destroyed, where does
this knowledge come from? Ape;)

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:9qc2rd$modeu$1...@ID-10218.news.dfncis.de...

[Trudy Higginson]

The universal consciousness.....the one well where ALL things are known and
available to all who seek.

I told my sister this today without knowing that I knew it ahead of time.

more on that conversation later.......I'm making dinner and reading toooooo

--
Trudy

I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be....because that is where I am.

"Naked_Apes" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qche8$n39jh$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Eve]

Tangent, but goes to your question . . . .

Today I heard a story that's credited to one of the Gnostic gospels
(scrolls discovered in the 20th century, if I remember right) about
Joseph, Mary, and Jesus. The story goes that they were out in the
desert, and came to a stand of plam trees, and Mary expressed a wish for
some fruit from one of the trees. Joseph got all bent out of shape and
yelled at her for wanting such an impossible thing, and Jesus simply
asked the tree to bend down so Mary could have some fruit, which it did,
and she ate.

Anyhow, if this gospel was unknown until the mid 20th century, who can
explain to me the Cherry Tree Carol, an old traditional Christmas song,
in which basically the same thing happens? My guess is, those gospels
were not "lost" but remained in human memory in another form. But that's
just my guess . . .

Eve

"Naked_Apes" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qche8$n39jh$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Naked_Apes]

Each of us is self-contained tied to each other and the whole of Nature
through our 5 senses alone. There is no universal consciousness. The only
place it exists is *within* an individuals imagination. ..
My take, the Ape.)

"Trudy Higginson" <tru...@soonet.ca> wrote in message
news:9qd0ss$nm5fp$1...@ID-42762.news.dfncis.de...

[Naked_Apes]

Could you dig up the Gnostic document? Also, after reading it, I can't see
any connection between that story of Jesus, Mary and Joseph you talked about
and "The Cherry Tree Carol" which follows:
--
The Cherry Tree Carol
As Joseph was a-walking, he heard an angel sing
To Mary born at midnight is Christ the heavenly king
To Mary born at midnight is Christ the heavenly king

He neither shall be clothen in purple nor in pall
But in the fair white linen that clothen babies all
But in the fair white linen that clothen babies all

He neither shall be rocken in silver nor in gold
But in a wooden cradle that rocks upon the mould
But in a wooden cradle that rocks upon the mould

He neither shall be washen in white wine nor in red
But in the pure spring water with which we're christened
But in the pure spring water with which we're christened

He neither shall be housen in house nor in a hall
Nor in a king's palace but in an oxen's stall
Nor in a king's palace but in an oxen's stall

On the sixth day on January his birthday shall be *
And all the stars and mountains shall tremble in their glee
And all the stars and mountains shall tremble in their glee

As Joseph was a-walking thus did the angel sing
To Mary born at midnight is Christ the heavenly king
To Mary born at midnight is Christ the heavenly king

* January 6th = Old Christmas before the calendar was changed.

"Eve" <eli...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9qd7q9$n59kl$1...@ID-10282.news.dfncis.de...

[Naked_Apes]

And I should add, as you've said, it's an inside job. When it comes to a
consciousness, there's nothing 'out there' to connect to. We're it. We are
that place in Nature that is aware. That's what makes us so unique and so
special. .. Ape;)

"Naked_Apes" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qdhvl$m6pnn$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

Oh, I see! You are funny:)

OK, the "knowledge" we are talking about is mostly some sort of esoteric
explanation of "the meaning of life, the Universe, and everything". Written
at a time when intellectualism was The Big Thing. It took smack-in-your-face
obvious stuff like "light comes from the Sun" and turned it into 4 volumes
of metaphor. How do I know? Because that's what philosophers and mystics
wrote about at that point in their development. Elsewhere in the World it's
still available. This stuff was not EXCLUSIVE to the library at Alexandria,
that was just a big collection of it. And before it was razed numerous
people had read the books, and a large number had quoted from them or at the
very least learned from them, been inspired by them etc. What was lost was
details, specifics. It has been recreated in the most part simply by people
being people and sharing the same languages and ideas. What some of us
believe may have been irretrievably lost is PROOF. Writings of such detail
that no amount of memorized snatches put into later volumes is of any use.
Dates, places, names......maybe even writings that settle AGAINST modern
conjecture. Seeing as you like examples, let's look at the legend of
Atlantis. The only "trustworthy" evidence of it is in Plato's writings.
Seems a bit odd that a) such a learned and trusted man should fabricate such
informaion, while b) No other writings of such precise detail exist to back
him up. If we had the contents of the great library at our disposal and
found NO other mention of it, we could all say "Plato was having a little
joke with us" or that someone interpolated that into his writings. OTOH if
we found massive amounts of material that agreed with him, we could stop
calling it a legend.

--
Melanie

Pagan-in-the-Swamp

Naked_Apes <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qche8$n39jh$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

I like:)

--
Melanie

Pagan-in-the-Swamp

Trudy Higginson <tru...@soonet.ca> wrote in message
news:9qd0ss$nm5fp$1...@ID-42762.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

That's it <points> that's the bit that's too separate for me:)

--
Melanie

Pagan-in-the-Swamp

Naked_Apes <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qdhvl$m6pnn$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

Excellent guess, IMO.
--
Melanie

Pagan-in-the-Swamp

Eve <eli...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9qd7q9$n59kl$1...@ID-10282.news.dfncis.de...

[Trudy Higginson]

Thanks for pointing that out to me. I think when I say "Out There", I mean
that it is all available to each of us cause it exists within the whole. I
believe the well is in each of us as opposed to being in different places
such as churches, leaders etc. We all have it.

Further, we were discussing my take on all of the times I seemed to receive
words concerning events or for peoples lives. I used to say it was God
speaking to me. Now I would say that it was me tapping into the entire
wealth of wisdom, knowlege etc., that exists within...and without.

--
Trudy

I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be....because that is where I am.

"Naked_Apes" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qdsc6$nf8v9$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Eve]

Oh that's a different Cherry Tree Carol. The one I know I don't remember
all the words, but here's a verse:

"Then Joseph flew in anger, in anger flew he.
Let the father of the baby gather cherries for thee
Let the father of the baby gather cherries for thee . ..

it goes on to say whow Jesus spoke up and asked the cherry tree to bow
down and give cherries to Mary.

Jean Ritchie taught it to me - I sang it in a Christmas show that was on
an Appalachian theme.

I wish I could point out the text in the Gnostic gospels, but my copy of
The Other Bible has gone walkabout. (Seems a lot of my books have done
that - there must be a box someplace that never got unpacked . . .) I
heard the text referred to yesterday in a radio interview with a
composer who used the story in a new work called "El Nino." He did not
say specifically which text was his source for the story - sorry . . .
<wanders off in search of books>

Eve

"Naked_Apes" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qdjmo$naned$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Naked_Apes]

I'd associate the legend of Atlantis with the Greek island Thíra (Thera),
which, according to geologists, experienced a massive volcanic eruption
about 1640 BC. The remains are still there. .. Ape;)

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:9qeb7d$ngqq7$1...@ID-10218.news.dfncis.de...

[Naked_Apes]

Universal Consciousness is a sweet sounding concept, but beyond faith, what
is it really? I'm not *aware* of any concrete evidence that such a thing
exists. ..
Ape, who along with all other sentient beings, is that place in Nature that
thinks. ..

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:9qeb7u$o510p$1...@ID-10218.news.dfncis.de...

[Naked_Apes]

All I see is part of me. .. Ape;))

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:9qeb8r$nmu01$1...@ID-10218.news.dfncis.de...

[Naked_Apes]

We tap into the entire wealth of wisdom, knowledge, etc. by tapping into the
world around us through our senses. The rest of the time, I'd say we are
having a dialogue with our own subconscious, the sponge which soaks up the
universe through our eyes, ears, noses, touch and taste. By the way, I'm
wondering, just what do you think you have learned that didn't come from
you, your observations or inspiration, and/or another human? Could you
and/or anyone else here point to something?
Ape;)

"Trudy Higginson" <tru...@soonet.ca> wrote in message

news:9qeem5$nbtu5$1...@ID-42762.news.dfncis.de...

[Naked_Apes]

My curiosity lead me to Part One of the Cherry Tree Carol. The other site
didn't have it. It's printed below. ..
--
Joseph was an old man
And an old man was he,
And he has married Mary,
The queen of Galilee,
And he has married Mary,
The queen of Galilee.

As Joseph and Mary
Walked in the garden green,
Where the cherries hung heavy
On every limb...

"Pick me some cherries, Joseph,
Pick me some cherries, do,
Pick me some cherries, Joseph,
That grow on the bough..."

But up spoke old Joseph
With his words so unkind:
"Let the man gather the cherries
That owneth the child..."

Then up spoke our Savior
All in his mother's womb:
"Bow down, thou lofty cherry tree,
That Mary may have some..."

The very top branches
Bowed down to her feet.
"Now you can see, Joseph,
There are cherries for me..."

"Eve" <eli...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:9qesan$nrst7$1...@ID-10282.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

Plato would not agree with you. Gotta run, deal with this in depth later,
promise.

--
Melanie

Pagan-in-the-Swamp

Naked_Apes <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qf8qm$n57r0$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Naked_Apes]

He wasn't there, and by the time he first heard about the destruction of the
island 1200 years after the fact, it had become a pretty good myth. ..
Ape;)

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:9qfb9i$o7h8n$1...@ID-10218.news.dfncis.de...

[Impulsive One]

Yes, that is it. You were tapping into THE universal consciousness!
:)

I like to think that we are in it and it is in us.

Dawn

Look what "Trudy Higginson" <tru...@soonet.ca> recently wrote!!

[nywgem]

Yeah, I could, but you wouldn't listen to me. :)

--
Meggie

I think I've found inner peace.
My therapist told me a way to achieve inner peace
was to finish things I had started.
Today I finished 2 bags of potato chips,
a lemon pie, a fifth of Jack Daniels and a
fifth of vodka and a small box of chocolate candy
I feel better already

"Naked_Apes" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qf9qf$n0uj4$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[nywgem]

Of course not <pats Ape's head> because if it exists beyond your five
senses, it does not exist :)

--
Meggie

I think I've found inner peace.
My therapist told me a way to achieve inner peace
was to finish things I had started.
Today I finished 2 bags of potato chips,
a lemon pie, a fifth of Jack Daniels and a
fifth of vodka and a small box of chocolate candy
I feel better already

"Naked_Apes" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qf939$nh3dd$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[nywgem]

That would include Osma bin Laden and the other terrorist, right? But
really, you should change your saying to "all is see is the only thing I
see, and that's me" :)

--
Meggie

I think I've found inner peace.
My therapist told me a way to achieve inner peace
was to finish things I had started.
Today I finished 2 bags of potato chips,
a lemon pie, a fifth of Jack Daniels and a
fifth of vodka and a small box of chocolate candy
I feel better already

"Naked_Apes" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qf966$nqfk7$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Trudy Higginson]

I don't have an answer to your question except, I have learned many things
from folks like JD......but if I believe that all is within all.....then
eventually I might have learned it from myself.

Often when he and I discuss something, later I am able to discover more
about a subject by pondering.

--
Trudy

I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be....because that is where I am.

"Naked_Apes" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qf9qf$n0uj4$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Trudy Higginson]

It's what works for me at this time. As I look back at my travels through
religions and other belief systems that are random, I see it all has made a
contribution to what I today am getting my head around.

My 'stuff' is still pretty scattered and incomplete, however, I am able to
look at a much bigger picture of what might be than ever before.

I must come to an understanding of what I have experienced in the past. It
was either the christian god filling me with his words, or, it was The
Force within me opening the wells of ALL for me to tap into.

very hard to describe as of yet....just able to experience.
--
Trudy

I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be....because that is where I am.

"Naked_Apes" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qf939$nh3dd$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

Yes, but you'll have to take your hands off your eyes.

Have you ever heard of an archetype? It's a symbol or idea that is shared by
the majority of people despite cultural influence, despite upbringing,
despite language, despite any influence whatsoever. It fights its way to the
fore even after years of indoctrination of other, conflicting teachings.
Babies are born with brains stuffed full of these. There are many
explanations, genetic memory, previous lives, Universal consciousness etc.
The jury is still out, but the fact remains that you can raise a child on an
otherwise uninhabited island without language or pictures, almost as a wild
animal, and then find he has archetypes in his head. If you can give me an
explanation for this that doesn't demonstrate a Oneness of humanity at a
different level from the mundane, please, go right ahead, it'll make you
rich and famous.

--
Melanie

Pagan-in-the-Swamp

Naked_Apes <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qf9qf$n0uj4$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

Yep:)
--
Melanie

Pagan-in-the-Swamp

Impulsive One <impuls...@thirdkissSPAMFREE.com> wrote in message
news:3bd098d6...@news.nucleus.com...

[Naked_Apes]

I'd say that pondering is a dialogue with yourself. .. Ape;)

"Trudy Higginson" <tru...@soonet.ca> wrote in message

news:9qh497$ngs2o$1...@ID-42762.news.dfncis.de...

[Naked_Apes]

Name an archetype. .. Ape;)

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:9qhd9p$oesp6$1...@ID-10218.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

Santa.

--
Melanie

Pagan-in-the-Swamp

Naked_Apes <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qhptt$od76o$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

All true, but why would a man of such high regard clearly state something
very different to the myth unless...................

--
Melanie

Pagan-in-the-Swamp

Naked_Apes <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qfgub$ncsjv$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Naked_Apes]

Santa might work if there had always been a Santa. .. Ape;)

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:9qhqkq$nvqmb$1...@ID-10218.news.dfncis.de...

[Naked_Apes]

Did he claim that Atlantis was a fact, or was it a fiction he used in one of
his dialogues? After all, wasn't he repeating a legend he'd heard that had
been passed on to another Athenian by an Egyptian priest? The Greek island
of Thíra vaporizing in a volcanic blast 1200 years earlier would make for a
great myth, and I'll bet the story got better every time it was told. ..
Ape.)

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:9qhri6$njph2$1...@ID-10218.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

This is where it gets tricky, historical data in the dry way we record it
now was not how it was done at that time. I'm not going to even try to sort
out the who and where of his inspiration, that's a newsgroup to itself, but
he did NOT feel it was a local place, not a tiny Greek island, but a huge
ancient land mass beyond the Straights of Gibralter. If you look at the
achaeological maps both Spain and Morocco were once much further out into
the Atlantic and there were islands in between these two capes as well. And
why call it Atlantis otherwise? Why not Meditteraneas? Now then, whether an
advanced civilization lived on it or not, that's up for grabs.............

--
Melanie

Pagan-in-the-Swamp

Naked_Apes <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qhv4a$o0edi$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

There always was, he just got called Santa here recently.

--
Melanie

Pagan-in-the-Swamp

Naked_Apes <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qhu5a$nt4du$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Naked_Apes]

During the era of man, Spain and Morocco were never "much" further out into
the Atlantic and there were never islands between them. By the way, the
ocean's name is derived from Atlas, one of the Titans of Greek mythology, a
mythology that didn't exist when the island of Thira blew. .. Ape;)

I'm pretty sure the Atlantic was named such due to

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:9qi04n$nrd51$1...@ID-10218.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

AARRRGGGHHHHH you know I can't resist a challenge like that...........how
recent do you want this? My map is from 20,000 years ago and it shows Spain
twice as wide as now. It's based on underwater archaeological discoveries.
The next map in the series is from 10,000 years ago and it's at present size
roughly. So during that time either the water rose or the land dropped.
Plato dated the end of Atlantis to about 9,500 BCE, which fits in just fine,
wheras Thera got dunked in 1650 BCE.
Atlas was the King of Atlantis (again, according to Plato) "And he named
them all; the eldest, who was the first king, he named Atlas, and after him
the whole island and the ocean were called Atlantic." (it really helps, when
arguing about Plato, if you have his books on your desk). I can assure you
that in 1650 BCE Atlas WAS a known part of the Greek pantheon, as the Titans
appear on stone tablets that date to the pre-Hellenic period on Crete, a
good 500 years earlier, and who knows how long before that in oral
tradition? No, they weren't invented by Homer, just Hellenized. IMO his only
"original" writings were his hymns.

--
Melanie, who eats this stuff as a snack before bedtime

Pagan-on-the-Skating Rink

Naked_Apes <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qi27k$o8pui$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Naked_Apes]

You have a map that is 20,000 years old, older than the cave paintings found
in France, and this map shows Spain twice as wide as it is now. I rest my
case. .. Ape;)

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:9qk9r3$oihcj$1...@ID-10218.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

No, you great steaming Nelly, the map is drawn recently from archaeological
evidence that allows experts to put together the topography of the area at
that time. I don't think Rand McNally were around back then.
--
Melanie

Pagan-on-the-Skating Rink

Naked_Apes <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qkg1c$oaiov$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Impulsive One]

This is so fascinating.

Dawn

Look what "Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> recently wrote!!

[Naked_Apes]

During the last Ice Age, roughly 15 to 20 thousand years ago, the oceans
slowly lowered as the earth's water supply froze and piled up on the
continents. If there were an Atlantis, it wouldn't have been swallowed up.
It's land mass would have grown, but not dramatically. .. Ape;)

"Impulsive One" <impuls...@thirdkissSPAMFREE.com> wrote in message

news:3bd83ae4...@news.nucleus.com...

[Chovhani]

I gots lots like that:)

--
Melanie

Pagan-on-the-Skating Rink

Impulsive One <impuls...@thirdkissSPAMFREE.com> wrote in message
news:3bd83ae4...@news.nucleus.com...

[Chovhani]

Um.....OK. Which book are you using? The last Ice Age began roughly 70,000
years ago, and ended about 10,000 years ago (although these dates are
argued, and some say we haven't quite left it). That means it reached a peak
roughly halfway during that time, so roughly 40,000 years ago the snow and
glaciers began to decrease instead of increase, and by the end of the melt,
the lower lying land masses as far South as Gibralter were inundated, which
would have flooded any island off the coast, and I have no trouble seeing
that a large island could have gone under the waves in 11,000 BCE.

--
Melanie

Pagan-on-the-Skating Rink

Naked_Apes <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qliam$oimj0$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Impulsive One]

More, I want more! :)

[Chovhani]

Try stopping me, I intend to do a whole big thing on Atlantis, bit not
today, the Sun is shining in the sky, there ain't a cloud in sight, it's
stopped raining, My Blue sky's up there waiting and today is the day we've
waited for, oh oh oh........Sorry! I burst into song inadvertantly there:)
Too much E.L.O. in the car...............

--
Melanie

Pagan-under-the-Quilt

Impulsive One <impuls...@thirdkissSPAMFREE.com> wrote in message

news:3bd4d351...@news.nucleus.com...

[Dennis]

Ape

So the average world temperature changes ???????

Dennis (who see the earth warming blamed on man as a joke)

"Naked_Apes" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qliam$oimj0$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Naked_Apes]

With our accelerated global warming, how fast is the ocean rising now? Are
you saying that a civilization as purportedly as advanced as the Atantians
couldn't save themselves? Ape;)

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:9qmgn6$oih4l$1...@ID-10218.news.dfncis.de...

[Naked_Apes]

Sure, the temperature has always changed. We, however, have found a way to
accelerate that change. According to core samples taken in the Antarctic
which go back 33 million year, the world has never warmed up this fast. Too
bad that so many of the plants won't have time to keep up with the climate
changes. In the past, they were literally able to slowly migrate to
appropriate places. Now they'll just die where they stand. .. Ape

"Dennis" <denn...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:9qmkrf$p33pt$1...@ID-10190.news.dfncis.de...

[Dennis]

Ape

If more ice melts in a year then forms there is no data for that year----

The warm cycles are not there to measure.

Dennis

"Naked_Apes" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qnfpb$ou2bv$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Naked_Apes]

If not all of the ice melts, which is always the case over the last 33
million years, then yes, there is data for that year. .. Ape;)

"Dennis" <denn...@pacbell.net> wrote in message

news:9qnhe9$p18nh$1...@ID-10190.news.dfncis.de...

[Dennis]

http://www.aynrand.org/medialink/columns/rt050701.shtml

"Naked_Apes" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qnkgm$p5qg4$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Dennis]

From http://www.carc.org/pubs/v15no5/4.htm -------a non-tabloid report LOL

"There are a few important points about these profiles relevant to today's
debate about the direction in which climate may be heading.

The climate at the drill-site has been colder than today's for about 80 000
out of the past 100 000 years. We tend to view our current climate as
normal; however, it is very far from normal when viewed in terms of 100 000
years of record. Using ocean core records we might even say the planet's
climate is due to return to the "normal" condition of an ice-age. What we
should be seeking is not the cause of the ice-ages but the cause of
interglacial periods.
If the ice-caps melted completely during the main part of the last
interglacial period then that period must have been substantially warmer
and/or longer than the present one.
The climate of the last 60 years has been colder than average for the last
10 000 years but warmer than average for the last 1000 years. "

Dennis

"Naked_Apes" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qnkgm$p5qg4$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Naked_Apes]

These are core samples, Dennis, which are taken above the land and go as far
down as the surface of Antarctica's tectonic plate, and a time when the
Antarctic had a warm climate. They aren't taken from ice floating on the
ocean. By the way, when a guy who claims to be a scientist starts calling
the New York Times a "leftist propaganda rag," I immediately walk the other
way, besides, this purported scientist your placing your faith in is a
columnist without any credentials .. Ape;)

"Dennis" <denn...@pacbell.net> wrote in message

news:9qnlga$pbn57$1...@ID-10190.news.dfncis.de...

[Naked_Apes]

Damn, Dennis. You forced me to read that whole article. I noticed that you
skipped those parts which talked about how a doubling of the carbon dioxide
in the atmosphere would throw off all of the old data used to predict a
period of cooling. The Canadian government asked for the research, and all
the author was interested in was the impact of Global Warming on the islands
of the High Artic. Here's the tail end of his piece:
[However, it must be pointed out that "greenhouse warming" would not persist
long enough to completely melt away the ice-caps in the arctic islands. The
closest scenario of a carbon-dioxide world might, therefore, be the early
part of the last interglacial period when the high arctic ice-caps had still
not melted completely.]
Ape;)

"Dennis" <denn...@pacbell.net> wrote in message

news:9qnm4m$p21b4$1...@ID-10190.news.dfncis.de...

[nywgem]

Everything is moving, growing, evolving at an accelerated rate.. this is
nothing new or is it anything to worry about.. as many people and more
people start reaching the same speed, vibrationally speaking, as the earth
and surrounding Universe, we will simultaneously go to a newer frequency..
those that have not came up to speed are going to be left behind :)

Meggie

--
Meggie

I think I've found inner peace.
My therapist told me a way to achieve inner peace
was to finish things I had started.
Today I finished 2 bags of potato chips,
a lemon pie, a fifth of Jack Daniels and a
fifth of vodka and a small box of chocolate candy
I feel better already

"Naked_Apes" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qnfpb$ou2bv$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[nywgem]

I love ELO :)

--
Meggie

I think I've found inner peace.
My therapist told me a way to achieve inner peace
was to finish things I had started.
Today I finished 2 bags of potato chips,
a lemon pie, a fifth of Jack Daniels and a
fifth of vodka and a small box of chocolate candy
I feel better already

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:9qmknn$olh8m$1...@ID-10218.news.dfncis.de...

[Dennis]

Ape

LOL----you mean it's not a rag sheet?????

Dennis

"Naked_Apes" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qnvng$p4uai$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Eve]

not to mention anything with Ayn Rand's name on it is suspect to begin
with . . . IMVHO of course.

Eve

"Naked_Apes" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qnvng$p4uai$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Naked_Apes]

The Ayn Rand Institute would like you to think so. .. Ape;))

"Dennis" <denn...@pacbell.net> wrote in message

news:9qo38d$p0h29$1...@ID-10190.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

That's a very good question. Some would say they did, that they travelled
East and West and set up the civlizations we are familiar with:) The ocean
is not rising as fast now. Artificial global warming SO FAR isn't a patch on
what natural cycles have achieved.

--
Melanie

Pagan-under-the-Quilt

Naked_Apes <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qness$p771s$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

In my top 5 all-time favourite bands, and then Jeff Lynne helped create #6,
the Travelling Wilburys.

--
Melanie

Pagan-under-the-Quilt

nywgem <emailme...@home.com> wrote in message
news:9qo30l$pl7vc$1...@ID-10142.news.dfncis.de...

[Pastor Brent]

Now just what is that supposed to mean? (gang warily...)

"Eve" <eli...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<9qo7fi$pjdat$1...@ID-10282.news.dfncis.de>...

[Dennis]

Ape

Sorry about that but IMO the essence is here

"The climate of the last 60 years has been colder than average for the last
10 000 years but warmer than average for the last 1000 years. "

Dennis

"Naked_Apes" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qo1bq$pf9ts$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Eve]

Mornin PB :))

Heh heh. Well I'm just not a big Ayn Rand fan. I think she's a whiner.
Actually, I found similarities between her and Richard Bach, who I was
also reading at the same time. . . . make of that what you will . . .
but it's been a long time since I read either.

I have to go to work now . . . have a great day!

Eve

"Pastor Brent" <pasto...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:b01ae812.01101...@posting.google.com...

[Naked_Apes]

Global warming is accelerating faster than any time in the last 33 million
years. That would cover the Atlantians. By the way, according to Plato, the
Atlantians conquered all of the Mediterranean nations of their day with the
exception of the Athenians. Aren't legends grand? Ape;))

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:9qp6p6$oqga4$1...@ID-10218.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

That's the whole point of 'em, they're for ego boosting. Would you please
introduce me to this 33 million year old meteorologist?

--
Melanie

"If superstition makes a man a fool, scepticism makes him mad."
- Mme Blavatsky

Naked_Apes <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qpr66$pilk6$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Naked_Apes]

Core samples, Melanie, which were taken in the permanent ice cap of
Antarctica. .. Ape;)

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:9qpu6r$pn7rd$1...@ID-10218.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

You have the most incredible faith in those scientists. I'd still like you
to name the person you are getting your facts from He may be right of
course, we have no way of knowing who is or isn't in this debate. I'm
worried about pollution too, that's why I use solar heat and a bicycle, but
my jury is still out on this one:

The Sound Science Initiative group (SSI) has a
Public Relations (PR) problem:

Here they are proclaiming "GLOBAL WARMING IS HERE",
when actual data from satellite records show a slight
cooling trend since 1980.
("Nature" March 13, 1997;386:164-167 1996;379:240-243")

The National Research Council's new report 3/99
"Adequacy of Climate Observing Systems" says
"Deficiencies in the accuracy, quality and continuity
of the records, however, still place serious limitations
on the confidence that can be placed in the research results"

--
Melanie

"If superstition makes a man a fool, scepticism makes him mad."
- Mme Blavatsky

Naked_Apes <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qqo3c$q84qa$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Naked_Apes]

I apply my own knowledge and sense of logic when it comes to who I'll listen
to. If faith is involved at all, it's faith in my own ability to understand
the science. .. Ape;)

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:9qqoe8$ptf36$1...@ID-10218.news.dfncis.de...

[Naked_Apes]

It's true that the temperature of Artic Canada has been getting colder, but
at the same time, the ocean is rising. It's temperature is also rising. The
guy you're quoting said himself that doubling the amount of carbon dioxide
in the atmosphere would change his findings, findings which were all based
on past trends. He said himself, that "greenhouse warming" wouldn't last
long enough to completely melt the ice-caps of the Artic islands. I guess
you could see that as good news. .. Ape;)

"Dennis" <denn...@pacbell.net> wrote in message

news:9qpfmm$olvnv$1...@ID-10190.news.dfncis.de...

[Impulsive One]

Arctic Canada is getting colder? Tell that to the north pole trekkers
who were turned back by miles and miles of open water. Tell that to
the natives up there who are having to invent names for the new kinds
of plants and animals that are migrating further and further north
every year.

(The latter claim is heresay -- I'll investigate further when I get a
few minutes!)

Dawn

Look what "Naked_Apes" <naked...@msn.com> recently wrote!!

[Naked_Apes]

Interesting. Tell Dennis.))) Ape;)

"Impulsive One" <impuls...@thirdkissSPAMFREE.com> wrote in message

news:3bd57e89...@news.nucleus.com...

[Dennis]

Ape

There is oil in Alaska----which comes from lots of old dead plants.

Dennis

"Naked_Apes" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qscuk$qaa8v$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Naked_Apes]

And if Alaska is growing those plants, what's it like in Anaheim? Ape;)

"Dennis" <denn...@pacbell.net> wrote in message

news:9qsdrp$q5gn7$1...@ID-10190.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

I see:) So basically, you do your own research, and listen to whichever
expert agrees with you? Sounds like someone I know really well:)

--
Melanie

"I'm just trying to learn as fast as I can, how to say what I've always
known, and more importantly, how to manifest it better "
- Eve

Naked_Apes <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qr248$pd25r$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Dennis]

Ape

LOL----Good question. I assume there were no traffic problems at the time

Dennis

"Naked_Apes" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qse52$pk7tj$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Naked_Apes]

If it sounded that way to you, then I didn't state my position clearly
enough. .. Ape.)

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:9qsob9$pr3dv$1...@ID-10218.news.dfncis.de...

[Naked_Apes]

Speaking of traffic, I heard there's only enough oil in Alaska to fuel our
vehicles for six months. .. Ape;)

"Dennis" <denn...@pacbell.net> wrote in message

news:9qsrgq$ptkma$1...@ID-10190.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

OK, try again:)

--
Melanie

"I'm just trying to learn as fast as I can, how to say what I've always
known, and more importantly, how to manifest it better "
- Eve

Naked_Apes <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qt30r$pljic$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm <one eyebrow goes up coinciding with Mona Lisa smile>

--
Melanie

"I'm just trying to learn as fast as I can, how to say what I've always
known, and more importantly, how to manifest it better "
- Eve

Naked_Apes <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qt34o$q0d14$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Naked_Apes]

Okay. ..

I apply my own knowledge and sense of logic when it comes to who I'll listen
to. If faith is involved at all, it's faith in my own ability to understand
the science. ..

Ape;))

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:9qufb9$qhff2$1...@ID-10218.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

I'm not sure where this is different actually, but it's still what I do too.
Next.

--
Melanie
The First Lesson of the Goddess is:
"All life is sacred"
The Second Lesson of the Goddess is:
"There is only one race - the human race".

Naked_Apes <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qv46s$q6tn5$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Naked_Apes]

I repeated myself word for word. Odd that you saw it so differently each
time you read it.))) Ape.))

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:9qv62g$q6upb$1...@ID-10218.news.dfncis.de...

[Naked_Apes]

And what does that upward turned eyebrow mean? Ape;)

"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

news:9qug3u$plap2$1...@ID-10218.news.dfncis.de...

[Cyra]

and Texas? oh wait i forget, all those capped wells are my
imagination............... ;)

--
Cyra
"We can only be what we give ourselves the Power to Be"
A Cherokee Feast of Days
http://www.thesacredgrove.com

"Naked_Apes" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qt34o$q0d14$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

Um er, I didn't see it differently....that's what I said.........

--
Melanie
The First Lesson of the Goddess is:
"All life is sacred"
The Second Lesson of the Goddess is:
"There is only one race - the human race".

Naked_Apes <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qvmf0$qfnde$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Chovhani]

Nothing dear <cycles off>

--
Melanie
The First Lesson of the Goddess is:
"All life is sacred"
The Second Lesson of the Goddess is:
"There is only one race - the human race".

Naked_Apes <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qvptk$r2cf3$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Trudy Higginson]

suspect of what....educated me.

--
Trudy

Those living in fear always do. Now they have something else to be afraid
of (Ape)

"Eve" <eli...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9qo7fi$pjdat$1...@ID-10282.news.dfncis.de...
> not to mention anything with Ayn Rand's name on it is suspect to begin
> with . . . IMVHO of course.
>

> Eve
>
> "Naked_Apes" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

> news:9qnvng$p4uai$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...
> > These are core samples, Dennis, which are taken above the land and go
> as far
> > down as the surface of Antarctica's tectonic plate, and a time when
> the
> > Antarctic had a warm climate. They aren't taken from ice floating on
> the
> > ocean. By the way, when a guy who claims to be a scientist starts
> calling
> > the New York Times a "leftist propaganda rag," I immediately walk the
> other
> > way, besides, this purported scientist your placing your faith in is a

> > columnist without any credentials .. Ape;)

> >
> > "Dennis" <denn...@pacbell.net> wrote in message

> > news:9qnlga$pbn57$1...@ID-10190.news.dfncis.de...
> > > http://www.aynrand.org/medialink/columns/rt050701.shtml

[Trudy Higginson]

When my mother did it, we all knew she didn't believe a word we were
saying......we all challenged her eyebrow.....she used to say.....what, what
the hell are you talking about.

she claims it happened automatically.....we said yes we know what you are
thinking by your facial expressions and that damned eyebrow.

--
Trudy

Those living in fear always do. Now they have something else to be afraid
of (Ape)

"Naked_Apes" <naked...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:9qvptk$r2cf3$1...@ID-10187.news.dfncis.de...

[Trudy Higginson]

and I love REO Speedwagon.

--
Trudy

Those living in fear always do. Now they have something else to be afraid
of (Ape)

"nywgem" <emailme...@home.com> wrote in message
news:9qo30l$pl7vc$1...@ID-10142.news.dfncis.de...
> I love ELO :)
>
> --
> Meggie
>
> I think I've found inner peace.
> My therapist told me a way to achieve inner peace
> was to finish things I had started.
> Today I finished 2 bags of potato chips,
> a lemon pie, a fifth of Jack Daniels and a
> fifth of vodka and a small box of chocolate candy
> I feel better already

> "Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message

> news:9qmknn$olh8m$1...@ID-10218.news.dfncis.de...
> > Try stopping me, I intend to do a whole big thing on Atlantis, bit not
> > today, the Sun is shining in the sky, there ain't a cloud in sight, it's
> > stopped raining, My Blue sky's up there waiting and today is the day
we've
> > waited for, oh oh oh........Sorry! I burst into song inadvertantly
there:)
> > Too much E.L.O. in the car...............
> >
> > --
> > Melanie
> >
> > Pagan-under-the-Quilt

> >
> > Impulsive One <impuls...@thirdkissSPAMFREE.com> wrote in message

> > news:3bd4d351...@news.nucleus.com...
> > > More, I want more! :)

> > >
> > > Dawn
> > >
> > > Look what "Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> recently wrote!!
> > >

> > > >I gots lots like that:)
> > > >
> > > >--
> > > >Melanie
> > > >
> > > >Pagan-on-the-Skating Rink

> > > >> >the whole island and the ocean were called Atlantic." (it really

[Eve]

She just had a very definite agenda, is all. Nothing wrong with that, as
far as it goes . . . I'd just look at a couple of other sites with
articles on the same topic if I wanted a balanced discussion about the
environment, especially.

It's been a long time since I read her work, and she's even more
long-winded than I am, so I'm not sure I want to attempt to summarize.
*My* take is that she's all in favor of individuals taking and using
whatever they have the capability to take and use, and let everybody
else fend for themselves. But I'm sure others would disagree, or at
least put a finer point on it.

Eve

"Trudy Higginson" <tru...@soonet.ca> wrote in message
news:9r4uv2$rcv62$1...@ID-42762.news.dfncis.de...

[Eve]

My Dad used to be able to make his left eyebrow go right up to his
hairline. We called that the bull-meter. The higher it went, the bigger
the shovel . . .

;)))

Eve

"Trudy Higginson" <tru...@soonet.ca> wrote in message

news:9r4v8o$raijv$1...@ID-42762.news.dfncis.de...