Former Chinese premier ordered to appear in U.S. federal court
nosp...@my-deja.com
Civil suit accuses Li Peng of crimes against humanity
September 23, 2000
Web posted at: 3:23 p.m. HKT (0723 GMT)
From staff and wire reports
NEW YORK, United States (CNN) -- A judge has ordered former Chinese
Premier Li Peng to appear before U.S. federal court on civil charges in
connection with the 1989 deadly crackdown on pro-democracy protesters
in Beijing's Tiananmen Square.
U.S. District Judge William H. Pauley III ordered Li to either appear
or send counsel to an October 13 pretrial hearing in New York federal
court. Human rights groups did not expect Li to attend the session.
Li, now head of China's parliament, is accused in a civil lawsuit of
crimes against humanity, summary execution, torture, and arbitrary
detention that followed his declaration of martial law on May 20, 1989,
in an effort to end the protests.
The lawsuit was filed on August 31 by four Chinese dissidents -- who
had been student leaders that were arrested during the Tiananmen
protests -- and the brother of a protester killed in the conflict.
The lawsuit was served later that day to Li's security entourage. Li
was in New York when the lawsuit was filed. He had been attending the
United Nations' Conference of Presiding Officers of National
Parliaments.
Rights groups: Li ordered crackdown
The lawsuit charged that starting on June 3, 1989, People's Liberation
Army soldiers and the People's Armed Police -- using semi-automatic
weapons and armored cars -- used force to clear Beijing's streets of
demonstrators and civilians.
Human rights groups -- including the Center for Constitutional Rights,
which filed the lawsuit on behalf of the dissidents -- have said Li
gave the order for that crackdown.
The lawsuit contended that Li should have "sought to halt the egregious
abuses of human rights that occurred when troops began their assault."
Chinese officials have said the crackdown was necessary to restore law
and order.
There has never been a full accounting of the Tiananmen incident, and
an exact number of those killed during the crackdown has never been
made available. Estimates place the death toll in the thousands.
The protests had begun on April 17, 1989, when thousands of students
from various schools rallied at Tiananmen Square -- demanding their
constitutional rights to freedom of expression and assembly.
The students also pressed their demands for political reform and an end
of widespread corruption.
In filing the lawsuit, the plaintiffs argued that the U.S. court had
jurisdiction based on a 1789 U.S. law, known as the Alien Tort Claims
Act, that allows victims of torture or human rights abuses anywhere in
the world to demand reparation before a U.S. federal court.
If the court rules against Li, he could be ordered to pay monetary
damages, but he would not face a prison sentence.
First recognition
Human rights experts do not expect Li to appear before the court.
Plaintiffs in past lawsuits against international leaders have had
little success in U.S. courts, so the current suit could be seen as
largely symbolic.
However, rights activists said Pauley's decision was the first
recognition by an international legal system that the Tiananmen
crackdown involved human rights violations.
Four of the plaintiffs -- Zhou Suo Fen, Liu Gang, Xiong Yan and Wang
Dan -- had been on China's "most-wanted list" of 21 student leaders
following the protests.
"Some of those who were detained for up to two years did not have a
fair trial, or were held without any charges lodged against them,"
Jennie Green, attorney for the Center for Constitutional Rights, said
in August.
"These people lived in horrible conditions, were subjected to electric
shock and had little or no contact with families. They were arrested
when their names were posted on a 'most wanted list' with 17 other
student leaders," she added.
Journalist Guillaume Debre and Reuters contributed to this report.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Mark
Jigong
are. They (Americans, including the judge!) think that the American Law
(which has NOT in any way 'approvad' by any non-American!) is appliable to
events ('crimes'?) occuring in other countries!
The Americans are also, in a way, telling the whole world to beware of their
absolute dominance and theri intention to 'Americanise' the whole wold!.
arn_werks
Please understand that you are of the race of yellow dwarves who
have delusions of gender. Please understand that virtually all
Americans would be happy to see you all on Mars or laid end to
end at the sea bottom, or just plain dead.
Jigong, go away and pass the plague on to your rat like fellows.
Thank you and understand you do not have a right to your own
opinion under your own laws.
I shudder to think of you as an American citizen or of you
adapting our ways.
Go home and smell a little nip in the air
nospam...@my-deja.com
Now listen up Comrade Jigong and you listen good. The words that come
out of your mouth are ugly and stupid. You should be ashamed of
yourself. China practices religious bigotry. China illegally occupies
the nation of Tibet. China made up special laws to persecute the Falong
Gong. China demands of the United States, the extradition of the
leadership of the Falong Gong. And you are such a hypcritical asshole
as to complain when a U.S. federal court ordered former
Chinese Premier Li Peng to appear to face charges of crimes against
humanity for the massacre at Beijing's Tiananmen Square.
Second of all, it is the criminal regime of China which seeks world
domination. Tell your pals in the politburo that the world does not
want anymore fucking ignorant Chinese law being exported anywhere. Your
kind of people should have expired 2000 years ago. China practices a
culture of genetic homogeneity (criminal eugenics), that glorifies the
State and which is more akin to the criminal regime of Ancient Rome
than to any modern State. For over a century Western nations have bent
over backwards in an effort to appease China, and what has it gotten
for the West. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing.
Sir, you are a spokesman for a criminal regime. The world awaits your
reply.
Anonymous
Jigong <Jig...@LingyinSirocketmail.com> wrote:
[cut]
is it true that "jigong" means toilet plunger in Chinese?
Jigong
idiot like you after years of 'hard work'!
arn_werks wrote:
> Sir:
> Please understand that you are of the race of yellow dwarves who
> have delusions ...[rest of shit deleted and dsicraded into the deepest hell]
Jigong
.... well,.... yeah, .... I almost forgot that I had just discraded some
'anonymous shit' into the toilt bowl.
Mario
I'm not an American myselve, but i dont really see why China is good?
The Atomic Playboy
"Jigong" <Jig...@LingyinSirocketmail.com> wrote in message
news:39CDF104...@LingyinSirocketmail.com...
> I really pity you and your parents as well as your teachers to have
produced an
> idiot like you after years of 'hard work'!
>
> arn_werks wrote:
>
> > Sir:
> > Please understand that you are of the race of yellow dwarves who
arn_werks
I learned about Chinese from the U.S. Marines who were my
compatriots and relatives in 1957 who described how much fun
your hordes were to kill. Perhaps the next time you try your
invading outward, we will have the pleasure of killing entire
mobs of such as you.
Sorry that you have such a little respect for the low place in
history reserved for the descendants of the cannibals that were
the first people of the Han. You have produced Great Mounds of
building and magnificent Art Works. So have termites, and
drunken Frenchmen.
An educated chinaman is as interesting as a pig that sings a
pure operatic high C note, but no one wants to hear it but
once. You are descended from a horde of thieves and ruled by
one gang or another since the first day of your of your
existence. Peasants all but with delusions that age has any
real meaning today.
Visit India on your way home and get the plague as I suggested
earlier.
Jigong wrote:
>
> I really pity you and your parents as well as your teachers to have produced an
> idiot like you after years of 'hard work'!
>
> arn_werks wrote:
>
> > Sir:
> > Please understand that you are of the race of yellow dwarves who
nosp...@my-deja.com
Egas Moniz <moniz-b...@gmx.de> wrote:
> And the USA think they can judge over China????
>
> nosp...@my-deja.com schrieb:
>
> > Former Chinese premier ordered to appear in U.S. federal court
> >
> > Civil suit accuses Li Peng of crimes against humanity
> > September 23, 2000
And why cannot the USA judge China? It is the season for such
judgement. See below.
SEPTEMBER 21, 14:14 EDT
Belgrade Court Sentences Clinton
By ALEKSANDAR VASOVIC
Associated Press Writer
BELGRADE, Yugoslavia (AP) — A Belgrade court found President Clinton
and other world leaders guilty of war crimes and sentenced them — in
absentia — to 20 years in prison for NATO's bombing campaign against
Yugoslavia.
The four-day trial was held in an attempt to resurrect anti-NATO
sentiment here and win votes for President Slobodan Milosevic ahead of
Sunday's elections.
Belgrade's district court pronounced Clinton and 13 other leaders and
NATO officials ``guilty as charged'' and ordered warrants be issued
immediately for their arrest.
Court-appointed lawyers were hired to represent the defendants. As each
20-year sentence was read out separately, the crowd behind a row of 14
empty chairs bearing nameplates of the accused, stood and applauded.
``The accused were fully conscious of their actions, they perpetrated
the socially most dangerous acts,'' presiding judge Veroljub Raketic
told some 100 spectators and media present at the sentencing.
Clinton, Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, U.S. Defense Secretary
William Cohen, German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, British Prime
Minister Tony Blair, French President Jacques Chirac, as well as NATO
former Secretary-general Javier Solana and retired commander Gen.
Wesley Clark, were all accused last month of war crimes connected with
the 78-day 1999 bombing campaign.
``The accused had been notified and summoned to this trial through
their attorneys but they have ignored this court, either because they
were afraid of it or they were fully aware of their guilt,'' Raketic
concluded.
The Belgrade judge also ordered the defendants to pay the cost of the
trial and pronounced NATO guilty of the deaths of 546 Yugoslav army
soldiers, 138 Serbian policemen and 504 civilians — 88 of them
children.
Yugoslavia suffered heavily in the bombing, launched last year to halt
Milosevic's crackdown on ethnic Albanians in Kosovo.
Milosevic has campaigned on a mixture of anti-NATO slogans and self-
awarded kudos for leading the country's ``heroic reconstruction'' after
the bombing, apparently in the hope this will translate into votes on
Sunday.
The Belgrade prosecutor said there is no expiration date for the
crimes, and should any of the guilty parties come to Yugoslavia at any
time in the future, they would be arrested on the spot.
The charges, listed in a 120-page indictment, included ``inciting an
aggressive war and committing war crimes against a civilian
population,'' as well as use of illegal means of warfare, attempted
murder and ``violation of the territorial integrity'' of Yugoslavia.
During the trial, footage of the NATO bombing was shown, but no
witnesses testified, since the list of plaintiffs included ``all
citizens of Yugoslavia and no courtroom was big enough to hold all
witnesses,'' Raketic said.
arn_werks
You have not the slightest idea of the history of the Chinese if
you are not aware of the rituals of the early, co called people
of the Han.
Personally, I have supported with cash, Chinese students who
were trying to support the student dissidents in Peking (or
Beijing) or whatever the proper city name is. They were
attempting to help China become a Republic based on Law, Chinese
Law, not some laws imposed by outsiders.
How much did you give to support them? Did you provide fax
services as I did. Frankly, I do not give a rat's ass if you
did or didn't. I would hope that you and your friends would
have, out of common human decency.
I probably have a greater appreciation for Chinese art and
engineering than you have mind or imagination to encompass.
Speaking of a long tradition of supporting individual rights, is
the 'de' on the end of your address mean Denmark?
If so, you should remember the behavior of your fellows who
protected Jews from certain death during a certain late
unpleasantness.
China has always been ruled by bandits, foreign conquerors,
external empires and finally by the long series of emperors.
Jigong could have pointed out that what the United States was
asking was silly, immoral, and contrary to international law,
pointed out that we invaded a country and locked it's president
in a dungeon, and I would have strongly supported that type of
argument.
Instead, in stupid arrogance, he started calling me, my country,
my ideals, and my honor into question. Marines and Former
Marines do not respond well to such behavior. In the early
1920's and 1930's, the Fourth Marines helped the Chinese people
far beyond any reasonable expectation.
In the 1950's they took great pleasure in killing those same
people's children and grandchildren, for they attacked the
Marines. The men and women of the US marine Corps still sing
songs ( sagas to you ) of killing 10 to a hundred Chinese for
every Marine.
If Jigong will apologize for his senseless verbal attack on
America, and present a logical argument, apologize to me for
insulting me, then I will graciously accept his apology, offer
an acceptable apology to him and the Chinese people, I will
discuss real issues with him.
And listen EggAss, I am descended from cannibals who got naked,
painted themselves blue, and scared the whole of the North
Atlantic world. Other ancestors of mine and my family still
engage in blood feud.
Egas Moniz wrote:
>
> >
> > Sorry that you have such a little respect for the low place in
> > history reserved for the descendants of the cannibals that were
> > the first people of the Han.
>
> low place in history? China?
> Americans are descendants of Cannibals rather than Chinese!
>
> >
> > Jigong wrote:
> > >
> > > I really pity you and your parents as well as your teachers to have produced an
> > > idiot like you after years of 'hard work'!
> > >
> > > arn_werks wrote:
> > >
> > > > Sir:
> > > > Please understand that you are of the race of yellow dwarves who
M. Simon
<arn_...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Jigong:
>I learned about Chinese from the U.S. Marines who were my
>compatriots and relatives in 1957 who described how much fun
>your hordes were to kill. Perhaps the next time you try your
>invading outward, we will have the pleasure of killing entire
>mobs of such as you.
Killing them is hard. Lots of logistics involved. Huge expense.
Better to co-opt them by making them want to be Americans. Blue Jeans,
Coke, McDonalds. etc.
Much easier to do and its profitable.
Wars are messy and usually unprofitable.
M. Simon Space-Time Productions http://www.spacetimepro.com
Free CNC Machine Control Software
Free Source Code
Control the World From a Parallel Port
arn_werks
I agree with you totally. What you suggest is the wisest of all
of the courses open to all of us.
Do you know why many middle eastern countries call the United
States the Great Satan?
It is not because of the fact that we use a different hymnal in
church, rather the fact that all of us agree that Satan took
Jesus to the top of the mountain and Tempted him with the whole
world if he would acknowledge Satan as a God. We tempt their
youth with blue jeans and rock music and odd behaviors that is
faddish and the idea that since in America, everyone can become
rich, we ill destroy their nation by corrupting their youth as
surely as Socrates did. We offer the older and the younger
citizens a chance to go to the schools that have cranked out
more Nobel prize winners than all of the rest of the world. We
don't have to kill them. We can assimilate them more completely
than the Borg of Star trek ever did in fiction. I agree that
with you that the best course is to do exactly as you suggest.
The only trouble is that the ruling classes, no matter the
nation, will die before admitting that there are many paths to
historic greatness. Perhaps they will have to all die before we
can communicate peasant to peasant.
I have known Russians for a short time and found them to be
exactly like me except that they don't grin like fools we do.
arn_werks
Have the World Court at the Hague issue the indictment and I
will support such an effort as to bring any world leader to
justice, realizing that only a true psychopath can run a great
nation without breaking down into destructive insanity.
We, the United States , in the Holy Name of the War On Drugs,
have kidnapped foreign nationals and invaded other countries to
lock their presidents in dungeons. Israel has done the same.
China has done the same.
These are all Crimes Against Humanity and the defense offered
that 'I was only doing my duty.' was proven non-valid at
Nuremberg after the Second World War.
I have a genuine quarrel with the Genocide Treaty, because of
ill defined terms, but what you are saying is terribly and
horribly true
Catherine Hampton
<Jig...@LingyinSirocketmail.com> wrote:
>This is just one of the many episodes which show how arrogant the Americans
>are. They (Americans, including the judge!) think that the American Law
>(which has NOT in any way 'approvad' by any non-American!) is appliable to
>events ('crimes'?) occuring in other countries!
Actually, many countries allow people to sue others who steal from
them, beat them up, imprison them without cause, and otherwise behave
like animals. IMHO that describes Li Peng quite well.
I don't think it's the Americans who are being arrogant here. It's
anyone who thinks that, just because Li Peng was a head of state in
another country, he should be held blameless for such behavior. :(
I don't claim the Chinese are arrogant about this -- I don't think
most Chinese have been allowed access to the full information, or are
free to say what they really think about Li Peng even assuming they
knew the facts.
But the Chinese government, and its supporters, have been
breathtakingly arrogant in their refusal to acknowledge the facts of
what happened at Tianenman square, in their refusal to quit torturing
and killing their opponent, and in their expectation that the rest of
the world will treat them as civilized human beings when they are
something less than barbarians.
--
Catherine Hampton <ar...@tempest.boxmail.com>
===========================================================
Home Page * <http://www.hrweb.org/ariel/>
The Spam Bouncer * <http://www.spambouncer.org/>
(Please use this address for replies -- the address in my header is a
spam trap.)
Catherine Hampton
wrote:
> Please don't judge all Americans by the post here. please distinguish
>between the arrogant few, the government and the rest of America. Few
>Americans believe in manefest destiny or in racism.
>
> To those that chose to answer this individual's very correct anger at
>American courts judging heads of other countries with your brand of
>racism, I say to you that you speak only for a very small minority of
>Americans.
Probably a majority, when it comes to human rights violations. Most
Americans think that any government that would do what the Chinese
govenrment has done to its own people is beneath contempt. They just
don't see that they can do anything about it.
Mark Ferguson
Please don't judge all Americans by the post here. please distinguish
between the arrogant few, the government and the rest of America. Few
Americans believe in manefest destiny or in racism.
To those that chose to answer this individual's very correct anger at
American courts judging heads of other countries with your brand of
racism, I say to you that you speak only for a very small minority of
Americans.
Jigong wrote:
>
> This is just one of the many episodes which show how arrogant the Americans
> are. They (Americans, including the judge!) think that the American Law
> (which has NOT in any way 'approvad' by any non-American!) is appliable to
> events ('crimes'?) occuring in other countries!
>
> The Americans are also, in a way, telling the whole world to beware of their
> absolute dominance and theri intention to 'Americanise' the whole wold!.
>
> Mark wrote:
--
Cheers Mark
Mark Ferguson
>
> On Mon, 25 Sep 2000 04:31:12 GMT, Mark Ferguson <ad...@whew.com>
> wrote:
>
> >between the arrogant few, the government and the rest of America. Few
> >
> > To those that chose to answer this individual's very correct anger at
> >American courts judging heads of other countries with your brand of
> >racism, I say to you that you speak only for a very small minority of
> >Americans.
>
Denouncing somebody and placing them on trial are two entirely
different things. Noriega comes to mind when you say you wish to
inflict our laws on the heads of state of other countries... so does
Vietnam.
We have enough human rights violations here in the US to resolve
before we start telling other countries how they should run their
countries Catherine.
> Most
> Americans think that any government that would do what the Chinese
> govenrment has done to its own people is beneath contempt.
You attempt to put words in the mouths of others and you were not
given the right to do so. To take this upon yourself in itself is
wrong. You do not speak for me you speak for yourself.
> They just
> don't see that they can do anything about it.
And what are you doing about it?
> --
> Catherine Hampton <ar...@tempest.boxmail.com>
> ===========================================================
> Home Page * <http://www.hrweb.org/ariel/>
> The Spam Bouncer * <http://www.spambouncer.org/>
http://www.whew.com/Spammers/ For your anti-spam needs.
> (Please use this address for replies -- the address in my header is a
> spam trap.)
My addy is real and spammers would stupid to use it as a dumping ground
for the trash.
--
Cheers Mark
Mark Ferguson
How are you today racist? When you see anybody by the physical
attributes and not by the content within you might be a racist.
arn_werks wrote:
>
> Sir:
> Please understand that you are of the race of yellow dwarves who
> have delusions of gender.
Attacking gender and race. What a luser....
> Please understand that virtually all
> Americans would be happy to see you all on Mars or laid end to
> end at the sea bottom, or just plain dead.
Hey loon, you speak for yourself and nobody else.
> Jigong, go away and pass the plague on to your rat like fellows.
He should probably stick around to educate you. I mean you do read
these NGs to become educated don't you? Or are you simply here to hurl
racist slurs at those you disagree with?
> Thank you and understand you do not have a right to your own
> opinion under your own laws.
What a crock of shite. He posted here didn't he? He doesn't have a
right to his opinion under your laws. Problem is you have no laws so
nobody cares except you.
> I shudder to think of you as an American citizen or of you
> adapting our ways.
As does he. After all China has only been around for 5,000 years.
> Go home and smell a little nip in the air
Moron, "Nip" is a derogatory term for Japanese and was used during
WWII.
--
Cheers Mark
arn_werks
I lived through World War Two and often there were guests in my
home, high rank military and civilian. They would be proud of
the fact that their terminology was remembered by some one like
you.
I though that it was a nice pun. The Middle Kingdom and the
Land of the Rising Sun have tried to beat up on each other since
Japan was settled by renegade outcast's from Korea. The native
people of Japan are the Ainu who have been driven to the
northern Islands and nearly exterminated, as we did with native
Americans.
I congratulate you on catching the pun.
Mark Ferguson
arn_werks wrote:
>
> Mark:
> I lived through World War Two and often there were guests in my
> home, high rank military and civilian.
This really means nothing to me. We all must act in accordance with
our conscious. I am married to a black lady and this means nothing WRT
treatment of others. I treat all others as I wish to be treated. When
I error on the side of stupidity I do not get offended when it is
pointed out to me.
You say you have lived through WWII and yet you seem to have much to
learn about being a human being.
There is so much that is obscure and people fail to realize. You are
of course aware from where the, "Human Being" originated?
Italy, Egypt, Mexico all are old cultures and yet we ignore them.
Ireland is another culture that is old.
History is the most important thing we learn yet that history that is
taught is often not true or is biased towards those that wrote it. This
is really a shame.
The gentlemen posting from China had every right to defend his country
just as we do. The system used in China may or may not be our choice
for a government gut neither are most other governments.
Did you realize that in most European countries have very good privacy
laws then the US? Did you realize that our multi-national corporations
ignore human rights and these other country's laws on a regular basis?
Does any poster here live on the border of Mexico and have to deal
with our country's poor ethics WRT effluent run off into Mexico's
drinking water? Does anybody know how many children in the US are
victims of child abuse or don't have enough to eat or are worked
illegally?
We need to clean our own house and then figure out if we even have the
right to tell another what he or she can or cannot do before we tell
others how to clean theirs.
These of course are only my opinions are worth exactly what you paid for
them.
Pagan
arn_werks <arn_...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:39CE6090...@mindspring.com...
<snip>
> And listen EggAss, I am descended from cannibals who got naked,
> painted themselves blue, and scared the whole of the North
> Atlantic world. Other ancestors of mine and my family still
> engage in blood feud.
Would that be the Campbells and the McDonalds?
Pagan
Victor Chan
"Jigong" <Jig...@LingyinSirocketmail.com> wrote in message
news:39CD6514...@LingyinSirocketmail.com...
Victor Chan
International Law and UN to file this suit.
"Catherine Hampton" <x...@hrweb.org> wrote in message
news:9hgtssg5a05f4quc8...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 24 Sep 2000 10:21:08 +0800, Jigong
> <Jig...@LingyinSirocketmail.com> wrote:
>
> >This is just one of the many episodes which show how arrogant the Americans
> >are. They (Americans, including the judge!) think that the American Law
> >(which has NOT in any way 'approvad' by any non-American!) is appliable to
> >events ('crimes'?) occuring in other countries!
>
> Actually, many countries allow people to sue others who steal from
> them, beat them up, imprison them without cause, and otherwise behave
> like animals. IMHO that describes Li Peng quite well.
>
> I don't think it's the Americans who are being arrogant here. It's
> anyone who thinks that, just because Li Peng was a head of state in
> another country, he should be held blameless for such behavior. :(
>
> I don't claim the Chinese are arrogant about this -- I don't think
> most Chinese have been allowed access to the full information, or are
> free to say what they really think about Li Peng even assuming they
> knew the facts.
>
> But the Chinese government, and its supporters, have been
> breathtakingly arrogant in their refusal to acknowledge the facts of
> what happened at Tianenman square, in their refusal to quit torturing
> and killing their opponent, and in their expectation that the rest of
> the world will treat them as civilized human beings when they are
> something less than barbarians.
>
>
> --
> Catherine Hampton <ar...@tempest.boxmail.com>
> ===========================================================
> Home Page * <http://www.hrweb.org/ariel/>
> The Spam Bouncer * <http://www.spambouncer.org/>
>
Victor Chan
"arn_werks" <arn_...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:39CD865B...@mindspring.com...
Victor Chan
"arn_werks" <arn_...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:39CE3FF8...@mindspring.com...
> Jigong:
> I learned about Chinese from the U.S. Marines who were my
> compatriots and relatives in 1957 who described how much fun
> your hordes were to kill. Perhaps the next time you try your
> invading outward, we will have the pleasure of killing entire
> mobs of such as you.
> Sorry that you have such a little respect for the low place in
> history reserved for the descendants of the cannibals that were
> the first people of the Han. You have produced Great Mounds of
> building and magnificent Art Works. So have termites, and
> drunken Frenchmen.
> An educated chinaman is as interesting as a pig that sings a
> pure operatic high C note, but no one wants to hear it but
> once. You are descended from a horde of thieves and ruled by
> one gang or another since the first day of your of your
> existence. Peasants all but with delusions that age has any
> real meaning today.
> Visit India on your way home and get the plague as I suggested
> earlier.
>
> Jigong wrote:
> >
> > I really pity you and your parents as well as your teachers to have produced an
> > idiot like you after years of 'hard work'!
> >
> > arn_werks wrote:
> >
> > > Sir:
> > > Please understand that you are of the race of yellow dwarves who
Victor Chan
"Pagan" <pag...@linkline.com> wrote in message news:ssv28re...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> arn_werks <arn_...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
Victor Chan
is. Your so-called nationalism is nothing but senseless sentiments. It lacks the
historical spirit. It lacks height. It lacks depth. Your kind entered the European
front because Hitler was about to subject your kind into slavery. Ironically, your kind
treated non-Europeans as slaves. Poetic justice. You are in WWII? I was in WWII too
fighting against your kind. :-) Japan might not have attacked US if US treated them with
more decency. Japan and China conflicts were the result of Japanese feeling inferior in
the eyes of the West.
"arn_werks" <arn_...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:39CE6090...@mindspring.com...
> And listen EggAss, I am descended from cannibals who got naked,
> painted themselves blue, and scared the whole of the North
> Atlantic world. Other ancestors of mine and my family still
> engage in blood feud.
>
> Egas Moniz wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Sorry that you have such a little respect for the low place in
> > > history reserved for the descendants of the cannibals that were
> > > the first people of the Han.
> >
> > low place in history? China?
> > Americans are descendants of Cannibals rather than Chinese!
> >
> > >
Victor Chan
much during the past 50 years. And you call yourself a WWII veteran. Communism
flourished in Asia because each Asian nations believed the value and strength of a strong
nation state. It was very necessary since much of Asia had been Orientialized by the West
(England, US, maybe French). Obviously, this will lead to civil wars and internal
conflicts within each nations. What happens now? As more and more the Asian nations
understand about the West (resistance to the West), there is little need for Communism.
arn_werks
You got guts and heart and possibly courage, which I hope you
use in the right cause. I was born in Georgia in 1939.
At that time you and your wife could not legally have been
married in any place in the US. During the late fifties, and
through the sixties, I an a lot of other people worked to give
you that legal right. You would have right from the first
because I think that it is one of those freedoms that is basic
to all persons to live their life as they chose. You are not so
unique a couple as you would have been a few years ago. You two
still have a tough row to hoe. I wish the best to you and your
children.
You have not studied enough history to realize that the winners
right the books.
You are welcome to discount my life while wrapped in the shroud
of proud humanity and humility. I hope that you are doing what
you think is right.
Let us stop this cuss fight.
I am going to cut some things from this post and admit your
right to debate that fact but tell the truth on what was cut.
I would suggest you might do your wife more honor by simply
saying you are married and she also thinks I'm nuts. Tell her
if she ever meets any of the Students from the Atlanta
University complex, to ask about a red haired man who hung
around at times with Jim Foreman At SNCC in a building next to
the Charles DePue School of Mortuary Science and Cosmetology. I
met a lot of the original black muslims and found them to be
typical college kids and we had enough in common to sit down to
coffee and talk. The first time they came into Snick as we all
called it, Jim handed mw an empty beer bottle and explained that
he didn't know what sort of mood they were in. After a while
we got to live together in peace.
But that don't matter to you.
I feel that I would rather know truth than live in error. I
agree that that is as good a way to live as possible.
> This really means nothing to me. We all must act in accordance with
> our conscious. When I error on the side of stupidity I do not get offended when it is pointed out to me.
Oh, I have learned things and seen and done things that you
won't. Leave it at that.
> You say you have lived through WWII and yet you seem to have much to
> learn about being a human being.
Mark, have you ever studied what a mess the tree of humanity
is? Are you aware that there is no black race, no white race,
no yellow race, but that in truth there is a single Human Race
whose proper classification is Homo sapiens sapiens.
Jigong, you and your wife and all of your friends are all homo
sapiens sapiens. There are different skin colors, but the
whitest white skin is no less white than the whitest skinned
black man and so on.
What really differentiates us is economic class and culture.
I find any oppression of the so called natural right of man to
be repulsive. Jigong is defending a state that kill student
dissidents, they have human slavery, as does our good brother on
the Arabian Peninsula, slave trading is still going on in
Africa. How can you, as a person claiming to be on the side of
good, live with that and not protest.
I could suggest a series of books to read that might help you
see some of what I'm writing about, but with a little work you
could do the same.
No, in all honesty, there is no generally accepted single place
that can be pointed to as the birth place of humanity. A lot of
remains that span from the present to as far back a 4 to 6
million years ago in the Rift Valley in Africa. There is also
slight but so far unrefuted evidence for a parallel form of
development of humans in China and Southern East Asia. If you
can provide some facts that go beyond the Eve hypothesis, and
some really ambiguous artifacts from other parts of the world, I
would enjoy discussing them with you.
>You are of course aware from where the, "Human Being" originated?
No, they are still studied with ever more interest today. I
forced my younger son to learn Spanish. He is one of those rare
people who can learn a variety of languages and now speaks a
cultured Spanish that is admired by the Mexicans who live around
here. By the way, given a choice, most people here will hire
them in a second because of their work ethic and habits.
Let me say that I think that you have been cheated by something
if you do not know the extent that these cultures are studied.
Go to a college library and look at a book, The Iconography of
Tuscan Saints and move out from there.
>Italy, Egypt, Mexico all are old cultures and yet we ignore them.
My family is Scotch and Irish. My irish ancestors were the ones
who got naked, and went to war painted blue, while my Scotch
ancestors plotted treason and treachery on a scale never thought
of by Machivelli in The Prince.
>Ireland is another culture that is old.
Mark, I pointed earlier that history is written by the winners.
And yes, with luck some minority opinion still exists.
> History is the most important thing we learn yet that history that is
> taught is often not true or is biased towards those that wrote it. This
> is really a shame.
>
Yes, he has those rights that I spoke of earlier, as we all do.
I suspect that the average person in his country has very few
rights. I agree with your point that few governments are not
suitable for burning in Hell.
> The gentlemen posting from China had every right to defend his country
> just as we do. The system used in China may or may not be our choice
> for a government gut neither are most other governments.
>
Mark, If you really believe in the existence of privacy, except
possibly in Patagonia, you are deluded badly. There is no more
privacy in europe than there is here. In Japan, the Police
visit each house at least once a year on a Courtesy Inspection.
Yes, I do and that's our fault for not doing something about
it. Any realistic suggestions?
> Did you realize that in most European countries have very good privacy
> laws then the US? Did you realize that our multi-national corporations
> ignore human rights and these other country's laws on a regular basis?
A personal issue with me that I have long screamed about. There
are sufficient treaties, that are superior to Federal Law, and
have been ignored that are supposed to give free passage between
our nations?
There is child abuse in this country but I suspect from some
research ( my Master of Science Degree is in Criminal Justice )
that most child labor law violations are in family farm and
small family businesses.
Why don't you do something about the pollution? China has the
right to dump more pollution than any other set of nations in
existence.
> Does any poster here live on the border of Mexico and have to deal
> with our country's poor ethics WRT effluent run off into Mexico's
> drinking water? Does anybody know how many children in the US are
> victims of child abuse or don't have enough to eat or are worked
> illegally?
So start, I've done what I could and I'm worn out. I really
don't know how far we can poke our wants into other nations.
That is a matter for diplomats and international treaties.
> We need to clean our own house and then figure out if we even have the
> right to tell another what he or she can or cannot do before we tell
> others how to clean theirs.
>
Mark, a lot of what tot say is not well supported, but as I
said, you have a heart, and yes some of your opinions are
personally offensive when you insult me.
However I think that I have called you worse than you called me
so I'm happy.
All of your opinions are valid, and I agree with many of them.
I have charged up to several hundred dollars a day for my
opinion. You owe me nothing except to learn to think
critically.
> These of course are only my opinions are worth exactly what you paid for
> them.
>
> > They would be proud of
> > the fact that their terminology was remembered by some one like
> > you.
Those men who visited my home a child did use the term, but not
as quoted.
> > I though that it was a nice pun. The Middle Kingdom and the
> > Land of the Rising Sun have tried to beat up on each other since
> > Japan was settled by renegade outcast's from Korea. The native
> > people of Japan are the Ainu who have been driven to the
> > northern Islands and nearly exterminated, as we did with native
> > Americans.
> >
> > I congratulate you on catching the pun.
> >
> > Mark Ferguson wrote:
It was also an expression a Japanese American from Hawaii used
every fall and we all laughed at it. That is the origin of that
expression.
> > > Moron, "Nip" is a derogatory term for Japanese and was used during
> > > WWII.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Cheers Mark
Cordially, and the best to you and yours,
Red
arn_werks
Finally you have gotten to the real point so let me apologize
for the name calling. Indeed Chinia is an Independent Nation
and should stay so.
I said to another person, whom I do not remember the name of,
that stated that Bosnia wished to try President Clinton for war
crimes. If Bosnia can get the World Court in the Hague to issue
an Information ( legal term for what amounts to a paper calling
a specific to court and in some of states in the US has the same
power at law as True Bill from a Grand Jury. If these terms are
not something you have come across, or need further explanation,
write me privately and I will attempt to explain them to you )
or somehow cause some Magistrate to issue proper and legal paper
work such as to compel Mr. Clinton to appear to defend himself
in court, I would approve.
China has exactly the same rights under international law as any
other sovereign state. I would support China if it wishes to
pursue such a course.
I do not think that the United States had any legal right to
invade a nation, arrest the president, and place him in a
dungeon. I assume you would agree with that?
No Country has the right to kidnap any person from his native
country, except under orders of extradition from a legal court
of law. Not some bureau, such as the Postal Offices or any
other governmental entity Except a lawfully convened court,
where the person to be extradited has the benefit of a competent
attorney, who is an expert in the facts of the specific law
being tested. Do you agree, or perhaps Chinese law allows for
such. If it does I suspect that it would violate some
international treaty.
You are the first person from China who has pointed out the
legal problem without starting out by insulting the United
States and its citizens.
Victor Chan wrote:
>
> Legally, is not possible. China is not under US jurisdiction. :-) US should use
> International Law and UN to file this suit.
This is an absolutely true statement that Victor Chan has
written.
I hope you live forever in the hearts and minds of your family.
Mario
DingDong posted?
If there is one racist in this newsgroup, then that has got to be DingDong!
The Atomic Playboy
"Mark Ferguson" <ad...@whew.com> wrote in message
news:39CF5E...@whew.com...
> Hi Stupid,
>
> How are you today racist? When you see anybody by the physical
> attributes and not by the content within you might be a racist.
>
> arn_werks wrote:
> >
> > Sir:
> > Please understand that you are of the race of yellow dwarves who
> > have delusions of gender.
>
> Attacking gender and race. What a luser....
>
> > Please understand that virtually all
> > Americans would be happy to see you all on Mars or laid end to
> > end at the sea bottom, or just plain dead.
>
> Hey loon, you speak for yourself and nobody else.
>
> > Jigong, go away and pass the plague on to your rat like fellows.
>
> He should probably stick around to educate you. I mean you do read
> these NGs to become educated don't you? Or are you simply here to hurl
> racist slurs at those you disagree with?
>
> > Thank you and understand you do not have a right to your own
> > opinion under your own laws.
>
> What a crock of shite. He posted here didn't he? He doesn't have a
> right to his opinion under your laws. Problem is you have no laws so
> nobody cares except you.
>
> > I shudder to think of you as an American citizen or of you
> > adapting our ways.
>
> As does he. After all China has only been around for 5,000 years.
>
> > Go home and smell a little nip in the air
>
Mark Ferguson
I am not going to get into a life history contest. The length of time
you live is not as important as what you learn from that time. Please
understand one thing about me.
Other then my spouse I have no family. This is not by choice. They
are either dead, yes almost all of them, or dealing with the things I
have already come to terms with.
arn_werks wrote:
>
> Mark:
> You got guts and heart and possibly courage, which I hope you
> use in the right cause. I was born in Georgia in 1939.
> At that time you and your wife could not legally have been
> married in any place in the US.
That law is still on the books of some states so it isn't finished
yet.
> During the late fifties, and
> through the sixties, I an a lot of other people worked to give
> you that legal right.
The work is not done and I will say the same to generations to come.
> You would have right from the first
> because I think that it is one of those freedoms that is basic
> to all persons to live their life as they chose. You are not so
> unique a couple as you would have been a few years ago. You two
> still have a tough row to hoe. I wish the best to you and your
> children.
No children because of an accident when I was young. Life is tough if
you choose not to shortcut it. Everything has a price associated with
it. The question is, is who is paying the price?
> You have not studied enough history to realize that the winners
> right the books.
K-12 is garbage history and that is what is being taught. College
history is a bit different.
> You are welcome to discount my life while wrapped in the shroud
> of proud humanity and humility. I hope that you are doing what
> you think is right.
Discount??? No. It "appears", you have not have learned as much as
you think when you replied to the genlteman from China the way you did.
A quick lesson.
My neice spent a semester in Ireland. While there she was amazed at
the way people were. The everyday people were polite and repectful of
other people's space. One day she and a friend were riding the mass
transit system, (a bus I believe). They were peaking loudly and people
looked at them bewildred as to why since they were sitting right next to
each other.
Others were having discussions and conversations but there voice was
kept to a level to not disturb others around them.
I have learned that most are unaware that other people populate the
planet and so never even think about how what they do directly or
indirectly affects others.
> Let us stop this cuss fight.
>
> I am going to cut some things from this post and admit your
> right to debate that fact but tell the truth on what was cut.
>
> I would suggest you might do your wife more honor by simply
> saying you are married and she also thinks I'm nuts. Tell her
> if she ever meets any of the Students from the Atlanta
> University complex, to ask about a red haired man who hung
> around at times with Jim Foreman At SNCC in a building next to
> the Charles DePue School of Mortuary Science and Cosmetology.
^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^
Interesting mix ;-)
> I
> met a lot of the original black muslims and found them to be
> typical college kids and we had enough in common to sit down to
> coffee and talk.
The muslim religeon preaches tolorance and acceptance so I have no
doubt about this. We all have much more in common then we like to
think.
> The first time they came into Snick as we all
> called it, Jim handed mw an empty beer bottle and explained that
> he didn't know what sort of mood they were in. After a while
> we got to live together in peace.
>
> But that don't matter to you.
>
> I feel that I would rather know truth than live in error. I
> agree that that is as good a way to live as possible.
>
> > This really means nothing to me. We all must act in accordance with
> > our conscious. When I error on the side of stupidity I do not get offended when it is pointed out to me.
>
> Oh, I have learned things and seen and done things that you
> won't. Leave it at that.
You can say that without any knowledge of my past or of my life
history.
> > You say you have lived through WWII and yet you seem to have much to
> > learn about being a human being.
>
> Mark, have you ever studied what a mess the tree of humanity
> is? Are you aware that there is no black race, no white race,
> no yellow race, but that in truth there is a single Human Race
> whose proper classification is Homo sapiens sapiens.
Been saying the same thing for many years. Did you know that the
term, "Human Beings" was from the Soux indians?
> Jigong, you and your wife and all of your friends are all homo
> sapiens sapiens.
While this is true you might be interested in the new theories WRT the
migration of man from Africa to South America. It is quite interesting.
> There are different skin colors, but the
> whitest white skin is no less white than the whitest skinned
> black man and so on.
Skin pigment is the result of evolution. All human beings share over
99% of the same DNA.
> What really differentiates us is economic class and culture.
Culture is a learned thing while economics is thrust upon people.
> I find any oppression of the so called natural right of man to
> be repulsive. Jigong is defending a state that kill student
> dissidents, they have human slavery, as does our good brother on
> the Arabian Peninsula, slave trading is still going on in
> Africa.
No. He is defending his country as you would yours if you found
yourself in a hostile environment.
> How can you, as a person claiming to be on the side of
> good, live with that and not protest.
I am not sure how calling him and all his people, "Yellow Dwarves"
qualifies as protest. Perhaps you would be kind enough to elaborate.
> I could suggest a series of books to read that might help you
> see some of what I'm writing about, but with a little work you
> could do the same.
This is a polite way of discounting my experience.
> No, in all honesty, there is no generally accepted single place
> that can be pointed to as the birth place of humanity. A lot of
> remains that span from the present to as far back a 4 to 6
> million years ago in the Rift Valley in Africa. There is also
> slight but so far unrefuted evidence for a parallel form of
> development of humans in China and Southern East Asia.
It was homo-erectus that was believed to have been inhabiting Asia and
parts of Europe when the homo-spaiens migrated from Africa and
eventually displaced them as the top preditor. Over the next 30,000 -
50,000 years homo-spaiens migrated into the Americas and are still their
today.
One thearoy to the ability the homo-spaiens displacement of
homo-erectus was homo-sapiens had crativity or imagination. This was
evident from the cave drawings and is what archeoligist used to explain
why "some" homo-erectus burial sites contain similar tools to those used
and commonly found in the burial sites of homo-sapiens.
> If you
> can provide some facts that go beyond the Eve hypothesis, and
> some really ambiguous artifacts from other parts of the world, I
> would enjoy discussing them with you.
>
> >You are of course aware from where the, "Human Being" originated?
>
> No, they are still studied with ever more interest today. I
> forced my younger son to learn Spanish. He is one of those rare
> people who can learn a variety of languages and now speaks a
> cultured Spanish that is admired by the Mexicans who live around
> here. By the way, given a choice, most people here will hire
> them in a second because of their work ethic and habits.
The term, "Human Being". Europeans didn't have a term for this so it
was barrowed from the Soux tribes.
> Let me say that I think that you have been cheated by something
> if you do not know the extent that these cultures are studied.
> Go to a college library and look at a book, The Iconography of
> Tuscan Saints and move out from there.
>
> >Italy, Egypt, Mexico all are old cultures and yet we ignore them.
>
> My family is Scotch and Irish. My irish ancestors were the ones
> who got naked, and went to war painted blue, while my Scotch
> ancestors plotted treason and treachery on a scale never thought
> of by Machivelli in The Prince.
> >Ireland is another culture that is old.
Commonly called Celts.
Did you know the Celtic tribes sacked Rome and were paid 1,000 pounds
of gold in 500BC? Did you know King Fergus was the first king of
Ireland in 300BC I think it was? Did you know the name Mac Fergus, (Son
of Fergus) was were that name originated? Did you know the monarchy was
moved from Ireland to Scotland by King Fergus Mac Mor Erc around 500AD
and he was the first king of Scotland and that almost without exception
all kings and queens were decended from him?
Did you know the current Scotman is a mix of the Picts, (painted ones)
and the Celts, (a tribe of Celts known as the Scots)?
> Mark, I pointed earlier that history is written by the winners.
> And yes, with luck some minority opinion still exists.
Actually I pointed this out as the reason for biased accounts of
history.
Here's another one for you.
Did you know that before this country's illustrious revolution that
Scotsman were slaves here in the southern states and were considered
expendable when compared to the black slave? The reason for this was
the slave owner paid money for the blacks and the Scotman, Highlanders
included, were brought to America as a part of the Clearence, (Scottish
History).
> > History is the most important thing we learn yet that history that is
> > taught is often not true or is biased towards those that wrote it. This
> > is really a shame.
> >
> Yes, he has those rights that I spoke of earlier, as we all do.
> I suspect that the average person in his country has very few
> rights. I agree with your point that few governments are not
> suitable for burning in Hell.
I am unaware of were I implied this.
> > The gentlemen posting from China had every right to defend his country
> > just as we do. The system used in China may or may not be our choice
> > for a government but neither are most other governments.
> >
> Mark, If you really believe in the existence of privacy, except
> possibly in Patagonia, you are deluded badly.
The the Netherlands if you want privacy. Junk mail is illegal there.
> There is no more
> privacy in europe than there is here. In Japan, the Police
> visit each house at least once a year on a Courtesy Inspection.
> Yes, I do and that's our fault for not doing something about
> it. Any realistic suggestions?
>
> > Did you realize that in most European countries have very good privacy
> > laws then the US? Did you realize that our multi-national corporations
> > ignore human rights and these other country's laws on a regular basis?
>
> A personal issue with me that I have long screamed about. There
> are sufficient treaties, that are superior to Federal Law, and
> have been ignored that are supposed to give free passage between
> our nations?
Currently I have no mail because I refuse to accept delivery on junk
mail as is my right as per the Domestic Manual for the Post Office.
> There is child abuse in this country but I suspect from some
> research ( my Master of Science Degree is in Criminal Justice )
> that most child labor law violations are in family farm and
> small family businesses.
Try the garmant industry if you want chils labor violations.
> Why don't you do something about the pollution? China has the
> right to dump more pollution than any other set of nations in
> existence.
>
> > Does any poster here live on the border of Mexico and have to deal
> > with our country's poor ethics WRT effluent run off into Mexico's
> > drinking water? Does anybody know how many children in the US are
> > victims of child abuse or don't have enough to eat or are worked
> > illegally?
>
> So start, I've done what I could and I'm worn out. I really
> don't know how far we can poke our wants into other nations.
> That is a matter for diplomats and international treaties.
I started a long time ago.
> > We need to clean our own house and then figure out if we even have the
> > right to tell another what he or she can or cannot do before we tell
> > others how to clean theirs.
> >
> Mark, a lot of what tot say is not well supported, but as I
> said, you have a heart, and yes some of your opinions are
> personally offensive when you insult me.
Stones and glass houses come to mind. I wonder if the gentleman from
China was insulted.
Mark Ferguson
This excuses bad behavior?
Mark Ferguson
How is this representative of the average individual from China? Is
this a productive way to conduct yourself? In order to combat this kind
of racism do you have to be a racist too?
Victor Chan wrote:
>
> And you are the "left over" of Europe.
--
Cheers Mark
haozertree
the more selective racists? It is shameful that America has the likes of
you but then every nation needs their share of shitheads.
arn_werks wrote:
> Jigong:
> I learned about Chinese from the U.S. Marines who were my
> compatriots and relatives in 1957 who described how much fun
> your hordes were to kill. Perhaps the next time you try your
> invading outward, we will have the pleasure of killing entire
> mobs of such as you.
> Sorry that you have such a little respect for the low place in
> history reserved for the descendants of the cannibals that were
> the first people of the Han. You have produced Great Mounds of
> building and magnificent Art Works. So have termites, and
> drunken Frenchmen.
> An educated chinaman is as interesting as a pig that sings a
> pure operatic high C note, but no one wants to hear it but
> once. You are descended from a horde of thieves and ruled by
> one gang or another since the first day of your of your
> existence. Peasants all but with delusions that age has any
> real meaning today.
> Visit India on your way home and get the plague as I suggested
> earlier.
>
> Jigong wrote:
> >
> > I really pity you and your parents as well as your teachers to have produced an
> > idiot like you after years of 'hard work'!
> >
> > arn_werks wrote:
> >
> > > Sir:
> > > Please understand that you are of the race of yellow dwarves who
arn_werks
No comparing life stories or other BS.
Mark Ferguson wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Other then my spouse I have no family. This is not by choice. They
> are either dead, yes almost all of them, or dealing with the things I
> have already come to terms with.
>
Red's comment. In the past few days, that law was struck down
in Alabama.
> That law is still on the books of some states so it isn't finished
> yet.
Red's comment: I agree. Until we can see a great change, I
think that it will be an ongoing task.
> The work is not done and I will say the same to generations to come.
>
Red's comment: your and your wife's choice but there
alternatives that you might talk over at home.
> No children because of an accident when I was young. Life is tough if
> you choose not to shortcut it. Everything has a price associated with
> it. The question is, is who is paying the price?
>
> > You have not studied enough history to realize that the winners
> > right the books.
>
College history is good or bad. I have been fortunate in my
professors. Most of cold give such things as the gossip from
the Chaldeans and the Bush Cabinet and every thing in between.
> K-12 is garbage history and that is what is being taught.
> College history is a bit different.
>
As I told you, the intention was deliberate and what God give
right do you have to try to force me to be polite? Get over it!
Red's Comment: Nearly all groups call themselves 'the real
people.'
> Been saying the same thing for many years. Did you know that the
> term, "Human Beings" was from the Soux indians?
>
> > Jigong, you and your wife and all of your friends are all homo
> > sapiens sapiens.
>
Read the article and it is interesting.
> While this is true you might be interested in the new theories WRT the
> migration of man from Africa to South America. It is quite interesting.
>
> > There are different skin colors, but the
> > whitest white skin is no less white than the whitest skinned
> > black man and so on.
Mark, here you are flat wrong, discounting certain genetic
diseases, all humans share 100% of the same gene. We share 92 %
plus dna with slime mold. Skin color may or may not be the
equivalent of speciation, but it is not the result of evolution.
> Skin pigment is the result of evolution. All human beings share over
> 99% of the same DNA.
>
> > What really differentiates us is economic class and culture.
True
> Culture is a learned thing while economics is thrust upon people.
>
> > I find any oppression of the so called natural right of man to
> > be repulsive. Jigong is defending a state that kill student
> > dissidents, they have human slavery, as does our good brother on
> > the Arabian Peninsula, slave trading is still going on in
> > Africa.
>
> No. He is defending his country as you would yours if you found
> yourself in a hostile environment.
>
> > How can you, as a person claiming to be on the side of
> > good, live with that and not protest.
It constitutes the yelling that I do in lieu of shooting a
person. He could have been a lot more polite and I would have
responded in like manner.
> I am not sure how calling him and all his people, "Yellow Dwarves"
> qualifies as protest. Perhaps you would be kind enough to elaborate.
>
> > I could suggest a series of books to read that might help you
> > see some of what I'm writing about, but with a little work you
> > could do the same.
>
No, I would not patronize you that way, as you know, I will say
what I think is needed to get my point across and I don't have
any ideas of what your life experiences have been. You said
that you did not wish to discuss them and I won't ask.
Yes, sheep were worth more than the people in Scotland. Mostly,
they were indentured or contracted worker and not common slaves
when they came here
I have no long distance service, so what does that say for
either of us except that I am too cheap to pay for the privilege
of talking to people I do not want to. If the Postal service
gives you any crap, look up your privileges to have a pad locked
box. They must provide service such that the mailman must get
out, find the right key, open your box, relock the box, replace
the key, and continue on his appointed rounds. After a few
weeks, he may decide that delivering junk mail in a trash can is
easier than dealing with a locked box.
> Currently I have no mail because I refuse to accept delivery on junk
> mail as is my right as per the Domestic Manual for the Post Office.
>
> > There is child abuse in this country but I suspect from some
> > research ( my Master of Science Degree is in Criminal Justice )
> > that most child labor law violations are in family farm and
> > small family businesses.
I think that that is mainly up in the New York state area and
their corruption is legendary. Yes, it may well exist there,
but I can not say any way or the other in truth.
> Try the garmant industry if you want chils labor violations.
>
> > Why don't you do something about the pollution? China has the
> > right to dump more pollution than any other set of nations in
> > existence.
> >
> > > Does any poster here live on the border of Mexico and have to deal
> > > with our country's poor ethics WRT effluent run off into Mexico's
> > > drinking water? Does anybody know how many children in the US are
> > > victims of child abuse or don't have enough to eat or are worked
> > > illegally?
> >
> > So start, I've done what I could and I'm worn out. I really
> > don't know how far we can poke our wants into other nations.
> > That is a matter for diplomats and international treaties.
>
I hope you see the same magnitudes of progress that I have seen,
> I started a long time ago.
Mark, I do not know how far my rights extend to telling you or
any one else to live and govern themselves. I would like to
hear what your view is. Should I have not interfered in the laws
of the south so long ago?
Mark, I intended to insult him. You and I are writing to one
another and being some what civilized about it. I hope Jigong
was insulted, for I would think that I had lost command of my
native language. Did you notice he can speak idiomatic
English. A learned man.
> Stones and glass houses come to mind. I wonder if the gentleman from
> China was insulted.
>
Mark, I am in pain and near exhausted. I have not commented on
much that you have taken time to write. PLEASE cut out what we
have gone over sufficiently, and we can go back to newer
arguments if you should so chose.
Best of luck to you and yours,
Red
arn_werks
I wrote you a letter timed at 4:03 AM on 25 September, I hope
you have read it. Your note was one of the few notes to this
news group with any reason in it or behind it. If you can not
find it, I would like to remail it to you. I would appreciate
your comments on it. You have stated the entire point of this
whole thread.
Thank you, and do read my note to
Red
haozertree
the following only 26 hours earlier:
"An educated chinaman is as interesting as a pig that sings a
pure operatic high C note, but no one wants to hear it but
once. You are descended from a horde of thieves and ruled by
one gang or another since the first day of your of your
existence."
arn_werks wrote:
> Victor Chan wrote:
> >
> > Legally, is not possible. China is not under US jurisdiction. :-) US should use
> > International Law and UN to file this suit.
>
Mark Ferguson
Proper netiquette is to post below what you are replying to.
Otherwise it is a convoluted mess one needs to sift through to figure
out what you are responding to.
arn_werks wrote:
>
Snipped...>
> > Discount??? No. It "appears", you have not have learned as much as
> > you think when you replied to the genlteman from China the way you did.
>
> As I told you, the intention was deliberate and what God give
> right do you have to try to force me to be polite? Get over it!
And what pray tell was your intention? I see the end result of your
actions as alienating a gentleman from China. Was this the end result
you were hoping for?
>
> > While this is true you might be interested in the new theories WRT the
> > migration of man from Africa to South America. It is quite interesting.
>
> Read the article and it is interesting.
>
> > > There are different skin colors, but the
> > > whitest white skin is no less white than the whitest skinned
> > > black man and so on.
>
> Mark, here you are flat wrong, discounting certain genetic
> diseases, all humans share 100% of the same gene. We share 92 %
> plus dna with slime mold. Skin color may or may not be the
> equivalent of speciation, but it is not the result of evolution.
> > Skin pigment is the result of evolution. All human beings share over
> > 99% of the same DNA.
Nope. Human beings share over 99% of the same genetic makeup. The
less then one percent is controls the physical attributes displayed by
the different peoples from the different continents. You might consider
reading up on so recent and not so recent studies.
> >
> > > How can you, as a person claiming to be on the side of
> > > good, live with that and not protest.
>
> > I am not sure how calling him and all his people, "Yellow Dwarves"
> > qualifies as protest. Perhaps you would be kind enough to elaborate.
>
> It constitutes the yelling that I do in lieu of shooting a
> person. He could have been a lot more polite and I would have
> responded in like manner.
Why would you feel the need to shoot a person? His response is the
response of an individual whose existance is under attack. This does
not mean it was apporopriate it is just the reason why.
> > > I could suggest a series of books to read that might help you
> > > see some of what I'm writing about, but with a little work you
> > > could do the same.
>
> > This is a polite way of discounting my experience.
> >
> No, I would not patronize you that way, as you know, I will say
> what I think is needed to get my point across and I don't have
> any ideas of what your life experiences have been. You said
> that you did not wish to discuss them and I won't ask.
I am not shy about my life. I have done nothing to hide so my life is
very much open to anybody interested. The attention that is not welcome
is the attention of data sellers and direct marketing association crap
like that. On a personal level I am completely open.
> > Did you know that before this country's illustrious revolution that
> > Scotsman were slaves here in the southern states and were considered
> > expendable when compared to the black slave? The reason for this was
> > the slave owner paid money for the blacks and the Scotman, Highlanders
> > included, were brought to America as a part of the Clearence, (Scottish
> > History).
>
> Yes, sheep were worth more than the people in Scotland. Mostly,
> they were indentured or contracted worker and not common slaves
> when they came here
Indentured servitude is slavery when you are indentured against your
will. The Scotsman I speak of were captured in battle when Scotland
fought against the English for their Independence. The captured were
shipped to the colonies to get rid of them and they were infact slaves.
>
> > Currently I have no mail because I refuse to accept delivery on junk
> > mail as is my right as per the Domestic Manual for the Post Office.
>
> I have no long distance service, so what does that say for
> either of us except that I am too cheap to pay for the privilege
> of talking to people I do not want to. If the Postal service
> gives you any crap, look up your privileges to have a pad locked
> box. They must provide service such that the mailman must get
> out, find the right key, open your box, relock the box, replace
> the key, and continue on his appointed rounds. After a few
> weeks, he may decide that delivering junk mail in a trash can is
> easier than dealing with a locked box.
I dropped AT&T around a year ago. If I need to make a long distance
phone call I will dial a few extra number. The mail is a funny thing
and this exercise is not one I would recommend for the faint of heart.
> > I started a long time ago.
> >
> I hope you see the same magnitudes of progress that I have seen,
>
It starts with privacy so people can feel secure in their own homes.
Guess what... it is already on the way. You with the advent of the
Internet and NGs such as soc.culture.china we have a rare opportunity to
actually get to know the people in those countries. We have a golden
opportunity to remove the ignorance between the peoples of many
different cultures and countries.
It is much harder to somebody you know then some faceless enemy.
> > Stones and glass houses come to mind. I wonder if the gentleman from
> > China was insulted.
>
> Mark, I do not know how far my rights extend to telling you or
> any one else to live and govern themselves. I would like to
> hear what your view is. Should I have not interfered in the laws
> of the south so long ago?
In this country you have the right to affect change. In China you do
not, IMHO, have the same rights to affect their country.
> Mark, I intended to insult him. You and I are writing to one
> another and being some what civilized about it. I hope Jigong
> was insulted, for I would think that I had lost command of my
> native language. Did you notice he can speak idiomatic
> English. A learned man.
Insult him for what purpose? Insults do not ingender good feelings
towards each other. How you behave is your business. When you mistreat
another in my presence then I am obligated to comment. If I fail to do
so then I am as guilty as you are for doing nothing.
We must, at some point, take responsability for the things we do,
don't do, stop, don't stop or other wise allow to occur
arn_werks
say, why the hell are you send me rest of that note?
Mark Ferguson wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Proper netiquette is to post below what you are replying to.
> Otherwise it is a convoluted mess one needs to sift through to figure
> out what you are responding to.
>
> arn_werks wrote:
> >
>
> Snipped...>
d.
> >
> > As I told you, the intention was deliberate and what God give
> > right do you have to try to force me to be polite? Get over it!
>
> >
> > Mark, here you are flat wrong, discounting certain genetic
> > diseases, all humans share 100% of the same gene. We share 92 %
> > plus dna with slime mold. Skin color may or may not be the
> > equivalent of speciation, but it is not the result of evolution.
> > > Skin pigment is the result of evolution. All human beings share over
> > > 100% of the same DNA.
Pure racist bullshit, Mark, that you are spreading. The
ultimate test is fertile offspring for any number of
generations. You sound like a nazi geneticist who has to
explain that they are close to us but that 1 % makes them
subhuman, Get a real education instead of spouting nonsense.
> Nope. Human beings share over 99% ( RED BELL SAYING FLAT ASSED WRONG Mark you are full od shit on this issue. ) of the same genetic makeup. The
> less then one percent is controls the physical attributes displayed by
> the different peoples from the different continents. You might consider
> reading up on so recent and not so recent studies.
>
Because he or she needed to become shot. What kind of half
assed question is that?
> Why would you feel the need to shoot a person? His response is the
> response of an individual whose existance is under attack. This does
> not mean it was apporopriate it is just the reason why.
> I am not shy about my life. I have done nothing to hide so my life is
> very much open to anybody interested. The attention that is not welcome
> is the attention of data sellers and direct marketing association crap
> like that. On a personal level I am completely open.
>
> > > Did you know that before this country's illustrious revolution that
> > > Scotsman were slaves here in the southern states and were considered
> > > expendable when compared to the black slave? The reason for this was
> > > the slave owner paid money for the blacks and the Scotman, Highlanders
> > > included, were brought to America as a part of the Clearence, (Scottish
> > > History).
> >
> > Yes, sheep were worth more than the people in Scotland. Mostly,
> > they were indentured or contracted worker and not common slaves
> > when they came here
>
> Indentured servitude is slavery when you are indentured against your
> will. The Scotsman I speak of were captured in battle when Scotland
> fought against the English for their Independence. The captured were
> shipped to the colonies to get rid of them and they were infact slaves.
> >
> > Mark, I do not know how far my rights extend to telling you or
> > any one else to live and govern themselves. I would like to
> > hear what your view is. Should I have not interfered in the laws
> > of the south so long ago?
>
> In this country you have the right to affect change. In China you do
> not, IMHO, have the same rights to affect their country.
>
Mark: The sheriff and his deputies know that I will shoot and
that I have what they consider good judgment. If someone who is
client lies to me, or breaks a contract, I have placed the
muzzle of a gun up his left nostril and asked him to leave town,
because, the next time I saw him, I would kill him ( Atlanta,
Georgia, 1988 ). I also asked him to wipe the snot from from my
pistol. He left town or just hid out. we never saw him again.
The last time I stopped a person at gun point was about the
middle of this month. They have not been back. Is that an
adequate explanation for how I treat with such people as I wish
to leave as quickly as possible?
> How you behave is your business. When you mistreat
> another in my presence then I am obligated to comment.
Mark, if you do that down here you will be in serious trouble
for both parties will turn on you as it is none of your
business.
That's an admirable sentiment, but many police officers have
been hurt doing what you want to do so casually,
>If I fail to do
> so then I am as guilty as you are for doing nothing.
True
> We must, at some point, take responsability for the things we do,
> don't do, stop, don't stop or other wise allow to occur
>
> >
Mark Ferguson
>
> Mark: I appreciate the note about etiquette and see what you
> say, why the hell are you send me rest of that note?
One has to question what one is trying to say here :-)
> Mark Ferguson wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Proper netiquette is to post below what you are replying to.
> > Otherwise it is a convoluted mess one needs to sift through to figure
> > out what you are responding to.
> >
> > arn_werks wrote:
> > >
> >
> > Snipped...>
> d.
> > >
> > > As I told you, the intention was deliberate and what God give
> > > right do you have to try to force me to be polite? Get over it!
> >
> > >
> > > Mark, here you are flat wrong, discounting certain genetic
> > > diseases, all humans share 100% of the same gene. We share 92 %
> > > plus dna with slime mold. Skin color may or may not be the
> > > equivalent of speciation, but it is not the result of evolution.
> > > > Skin pigment is the result of evolution. All human beings share over
> > > > 100% of the same DNA.
Because their is a less then one percent difference between the DNA of
any two individuals does in fact disprove any racist theory. You just
need to consider the slang term Race, in the context of Human Beings, is
inaapropriate since the term is slang for groups of like people. With
over a 99% exact same DNA sequencing everybody is so similar as to be of
one race as it is defined.
You are free to disagree with what I have said about the shared DNA of
all Humans that is your choice. It won't change reality but you are
free to disagree with it.
Now I will clarify one thing. There is no more difference between
yours and my DNA and that of mine and my spouse. Here's what confused a
racist. Chimps share just around 98% of Human DNA.
So a racist recenlty attempted to find that the difference between
white and black DNA was that less then 1% between all Humans. Since I
never stated there was difference of less then 1% between the DNA of
Whites and Blacks he was shown for the idiot he was.
By the rant below maybe you should consider updating your information.
> Pure racist bullshit, Mark, that you are spreading. The
> ultimate test is fertile offspring for any number of
> generations. You sound like a nazi geneticist who has to
> explain that they are close to us but that 1 % makes them
> subhuman, Get a real education instead of spouting nonsense.
> ( RED BELL SAYING FLAT ASSED WRONG Mark you are full od shit on this issue. )
> > Nope. Human beings share over 99% of the same genetic makeup. The
> > less then one percent is controls the physical attributes displayed by
> > the different peoples from the different continents. You might consider
> > reading up on so recent and not so recent studies.
> >
And what makes a person need to be shot?
Heh, heh, heh.... When reason forsakes you violence is the next best
thing.
A question for you.
Which is worse:
An individual that disbelieves the truth because it displeaaeses the
individual or an individual that attempts to twist the truth to the
individual's own means?
> Mark: The sheriff and his deputies know that I will shoot and
> that I have what they consider good judgment. If someone who is
> client lies to me, or breaks a contract, I have placed the
> muzzle of a gun up his left nostril and asked him to leave town,
> because, the next time I saw him, I would kill him ( Atlanta,
> Georgia, 1988 ). I also asked him to wipe the snot from from my
> pistol. He left town or just hid out. we never saw him again.
> The last time I stopped a person at gun point was about the
> middle of this month. They have not been back. Is that an
> adequate explanation for how I treat with such people as I wish
> to leave as quickly as possible?
> > How you behave is your business. When you mistreat
> > another in my presence then I am obligated to comment.
>
> Mark, if you do that down here you will be in serious trouble
> for both parties will turn on you as it is none of your
> business.
Yeah right. I didn't the gentleman from China telling me that your
abuse of him wasn't any of my business. I hear the bully trying to
weasel out of taking the resposability for what he has done.
> That's an admirable sentiment, but many police officers have
> been hurt doing what you want to do so casually,
You have shown that you are not the brightest bulb in the carton with
your other rant(s) about DNA, shooting people whom you disagree with,
bullying those with whom you disagree with and the list does go on.
For the Police this is a part of their job.
arn_werks
make. I have freely insulted some persons on this group. They
have the same right to freely insult me. We do have a mutual
interest in telling the truth , to one another and to the group.
The netiquette issue Mark refers to is the manner in which I
posted a letter that I wrote to Victor Chan where he simply
stated the Fact that China is not bound by US law and he
suggested that it was in fact an issue for international law. I
said that I thought that he was the ONLY person who had cut to
the heart of the matter and agreed completely with him and gave
specific examples of where I agreed with his ideas. I would
like to hear from him because he sees clearly where so many do
not. He seems to understand what is important and what is not.
I really would like to converse with him, for I should like to
learn from him his ideas and outlook on certain issues of common
interest.
Should Victor Chan read this, please reply and if you cannot
find my reply, say so, and I will send it to his choice of
addresses.
Now, on to the issues with Mark.
Mark Ferguson wrote:
>
> arn_werks wrote:
> >
> > Mark: I appreciate the note about etiquette and see what you
> > say, why the hell are you send me rest of that note?
>
> One has to question what one is trying to say here :-)
>
> > Mark Ferguson wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Proper netiquette is to post below what you are replying to.
> > > Otherwise it is a convoluted mess one needs to sift through to figure
> > > out what you are responding to.
> > >
> > > arn_werks wrote:
Mark asked if I intended to insult Jigong and why. I explained
to Mark why I wanted to insult Jigong. It was impersonal as
when he called us Arrogant Americans. I would not care if he
had called us running dog gang of 4 on any other insult. I
still would have taken offense, because that is what he wanted.
It is a silly thing to call some one but that may well be a
customary manner for Jigong. Mark claimed that I had no right
to insult a person.
Mark wants to restrict my right to free self expression. A lot
of you may wish to do that, and you may insult me because
sometimes insults can be funny and I enjoy being amused.
> > > > As I told you, the intention was deliberate and what God give
> > > > right do you have to try to force me to be polite? Get over it!
Here Mark makes the claim that all humans share 99% of a common
dna. That is flat wrong. All humans have exactly the same
dna. Mark seem to be making some point that some humans are
'different' from others. This seems to be the very roots of
racism. I will cheerfully admit to prejudice, I can't stand
sweet potato or pumpkin pie, I don't like a lot of things. I do
know that there is no difference at a cellular level between me
and my black neighbors. If I can donate blood to him and vice
versa, we are both humans. I think that I can dislike stupid
rednecks, no matter their color or creed or anything else. Let
me know if I'm wrong or if you think the same way, maybe you
should not so admit.
My own words in 4 >'s back.
> > > > Mark, here you are flat wrong, discounting certain genetic
> > > > diseases, all humans share 100% of the same gene. We share 92 %
> > > > plus dna with slime mold. Skin color may or may not be the
> > > > equivalent of speciation, but it is not the result of evolution.
Mark claims that skin color is a matter of evolution. That is
not the generally accepted that such traits are evolutionary but
rather represent what Darwin called speciation, and is
equivalent to the coloration of finches, all of whom can mate
and produce fertile offspring. I'm not sure how we share over
100% of the same dna except immediately after mating.
> > > > > Skin pigment is the result of evolution. All human beings share over
> > > > > 100% of the same DNA.
Mark, you are a damned liar because I already told you that
there is no such thing as multiple races that live on this
earth. We are technically Homo Sapiens Sapiens. Not Homo
Sapiens as the term you tend to use. There is a 99 % dna
similarity between Homo Sapiens Sapiens and A pigmy chimp,
properly called a Bonobo.
Marks words which seem to claim that some people have different
dna. Make up your own mind if it is term of ignorance or some
attempt to say that some bunch of people are better or worse
than others. I believe that is at the roots of Racism and is
indeed the very definition. Now the Irish may fight over
whether the Irish are descended form the God's or whether the
God's are descended from the Irish. I not sure what you would
call that except quaint.
Again, differences exits on gene level.
> Because their is a less then one percent difference between the DNA of
> any two individuals does in fact disprove any racist theory. You just
> need to consider the slang term Race, in the context of Human Beings, is
> inaapropriate since the term is slang for groups of like people. With
> over a 99% exact same DNA sequencing everybody is so similar as to be of
> one race as it is defined.
Mark again you are a damned liar in claiming that I made such
claims as you seem to be making. I've told you over and over
that all humans have the same dna. There are variations in
genes, but human dna is exactly the same from any human group.
> You are free to disagree with what I have said about the shared DNA of
> all Humans that is your choice. It won't change reality but you are
> free to disagree with it.
Mark's words. Our figures don't agree. I' take the word of a
good molecular biologist. Is there one out there?
> Now I will clarify one thing. There is no more difference between
> yours and my DNA and that of mine and my spouse. Here's what confused a
> racist. Chimps share just around 98% of Human DNA.
Mark are you familiar of several subtypes in blood matching?
that can be significant in organ transplant, but it is normally
of no more interest eye color.
I have seen physic types make a complete fool of themselves at
times with really lunatic ideas out side their field. Medical
Doctors are notorious for acting as experts outside the medical
field. You can find all sorts of examples of what I call nazi
science or Lychenko biology, both forms od socialist science.
It exists. Ignore it unless you want a turgid sort of humor.
> So a racist recenlty attempted to find that the difference between
> white and black DNA was that less then 1% between all Humans. Since I
> never stated there was difference of less then 1% between the DNA of
> Whites and Blacks he was shown for the idiot he was.
Marks sentence below.
> By the rant below maybe you should consider updating your information.
My words below.
> > Pure racist bullshit, Mark, that you are spreading. The
> > ultimate test is fertile offspring for any number of
> > generations. You sound like a nazi geneticist who has to
> > explain that they are close to us but that 1 % makes them
> > subhuman, Get a real education instead of spouting nonsense.
> > ( RED BELL SAYING FLAT ASSED WRONG Mark you are full od shit on this issue. )
>
I described my actions toward two people who offended me over a
long time span.
In the first case a person presented what appeared to be a fine
and legitimate project that my company would subcontract to
produce a small golf cart. He lied about being able to
distribute and broke the contract in other legal ways. I stuck
a revolver literally up his left nostril and told him to get out
of dodge or I' kill him. He left.
In the case of another incident, a person made a habit of going
at a speed over 60m in front of my drive way. I confronted him
when he returned one day. He aimed the motorcycle right at me
to intimidate me into jumping out of the way. I have a lot of
spinal problems and don't jump well, so i pointed a 45 at him.
He stopped and started yelling about how I could not point a
pistol at him. I clicked the safety off and explained that he
was welcome to ride slowly past my drive way. I explained that
I would use him for a moving target next time he went too fast
by my driveway. The sheriff and his deputy said just to call
them if I had to kill him. He has not been back. Two other
riders came by. I called the sheriff since my wife did not want
me kill two people. The deputy showed up and when the riders
came back, the deputy did his work, and asked me what I wanted
to do. I explained to the riders what they had done to annoy
me. They said that they did not realize that they were causing
me offense and so I asked them to please go by my place more
slowly from now on. They have been back several times and have
honored their word.
Marks words in the below sentence.
> And what makes a person need to be shot?
My response
> > Because he or she needed to become shot. What kind of half
> > assed question is that?
Marks response, which I think Mario wrote for him.
> > > Why would you feel the need to shoot a person? His response is the
> > > response of an individual whose existance is under attack. This does
> > > not mean it was apporopriate it is just the reason why.
Marks words. Mario wrote a list of things that he liked. He
wanted those things that we all want. I thought that it was one
of the best expressions of what a young person should dream of
having.
> > > I am not shy about my life. I have done nothing to hide so my life is
> > > very much open to anybody interested. The attention that is not welcome
> > > is the attention of data sellers and direct marketing association crap
> > > like that. On a personal level I am completely open.
> > >
Marks words and a sensible question akin to Willy Sutton who
asked 'Is it a greater sin to start a bank or to rob one? Some
fool reporter then asked Willy why he robbed banks. He looked
at the reporter and said 'Because that's where the money is,'
> Which is worse:
My opinion is that I honestly do not know but that it is a
question worth asking and contemplating.
> An individual that disbelieves the truth because it displeaaeses the
> individual or an individual that attempts to twist the truth to the
> individual's own means?
Red's comments: Mark asked me to explain how I treated clients
or other people around me. This is duplicated above when he
asked me how I did something or other.
> > Mark: The sheriff and his deputies know that I will shoot and
> > that I have what they consider good judgment. If someone who is
> > client lies to me, or breaks a contract, I have placed the
> > muzzle of a gun up his left nostril and asked him to leave town,
> > because, the next time I saw him, I would kill him ( Atlanta,
> > Georgia, 1988 ). I also asked him to wipe the snot from from my
> > pistol. He left town or just hid out. we never saw him again.
> > The last time I stopped a person at gun point was about the
> > middle of this month. They have not been back. Is that an
> > adequate explanation for how I treat with such people as I wish
> > to leave as quickly as possible?
Now Mark explains that he is a social arbitrator.
> > > How you behave is your business. When you mistreat
> > > another in my presence then I am obligated to comment.
> >
> > Mark, if you do that down here you will be in serious trouble
> > for both parties will turn on you as it is none of your
> > business.
Mark, again I am calling you a liar. I deliberately insulted
Jigong as have others. I told you on more than one time that I
intended to insult him. I extend the same invitation to him
that I extended to Mr. Victor Chan, that if he wishes to engage
in a civilized discourse, that I would welcome such an
opportunity.
> Yeah right. I didn't the gentleman from China telling me that your
> abuse of him wasn't any of my business. I hear the bully trying to
> weasel out of taking the resposability for what he has done.
Mark, on that last sentence in the above paragraph, how does
public admission of having done a thing constitute weaseling out
of responsibility?
I pointed out to Mark that he should not step between to parties
who may be getting ready to cut each other up with large pocket
knives. It really is nice to have peace and quite and I agree
with Mark that people ought not to fight in public and bother
other people. But you interfere at your own risk.
> > That's an admirable sentiment, but many police officers have
> > been hurt doing what you want to do so casually,
Mark, I think that i have no reason to worry about your opinion
with respect to my education or intelligence.
> You have shown that you are not the brightest bulb in the carton with
> your other rant(s) about DNA, shooting people whom you disagree with,
> bullying those with whom you disagree with and the list does go on.
Mark, do you know that according a decision by the Supermes that
you have no right to individual protection by the police and
that they a duty to try to protect the community, they have
absolutely no obligation to protect you specifically?
> For the Police this is a part of their job.
>
Here we meet in common opinion.
> > >If I fail to do
> > > so then I am as guilty as you are for doing nothing.
> > True
> > > We must, at some point, take responsability for the things we do,
> > > don't do, stop, don't stop or other wise allow to occur
> > >
Again, do not lie about what I said, be polite and honest and I
will willing engage you in any discussion and hopefully enjoy
it.
Cordially and the best to you and yours
Red
tro...@my-deja.com
Jigong <Jig...@LingyinSirocketmail.com> wrote:
> This is just one of the many episodes which show how arrogant the
> Americans are. They (Americans, including the judge!) think that
> the American Law (which has NOT in any way 'approvad' by any non-
> American!) is appliable to events ('crimes'?) occuring in other
> countries!
Well, our top administration officials, which have sold out to
Communist China, don't think the law applies to THEM, so if those
laws are to stand for anything, SOMEONE has to be subject to them,
right?
> The Americans are also, in a way, telling the whole world to beware
> of their absolute dominance [...]
Aw, stuff a cork in your "hegemon" prattle. You aren't a shill or a
hack for the Chinese government, are you?
Our government is filled with people who HATE the idea of the USA as
a world leader, a successful nation (which China is trying to become).
Dave Simpson
tro...@my-deja.com
"Victor Chan" <victo...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> I agree. For the moment, I thought the news was a joke. :-)
That you agree with "Jigong" is the real joke.
Dave Simpson
tro...@my-deja.com
Egas Moniz <moniz-b...@gmx.de> wrote:
> And the USA think they can judge over China????
Never mind your muddled thinking.
Why not? Since when is it impossible for a dog to bite the hand
that feeds it (in this case, China and top officials in the federal
government of the USA)?
arn_werks
Mr. Victor Chan is a gentleman who can cut to the point without
any opening name calling. That is why I wish to speak with him
via this group.
May I remind you that a demand for constancy is not reasonable
but instead is asking for stagnation.
I wrote both messages and will personally apologize to either
Victor Chan for having indirectly insulting him and will
apologize directly to Jigong when he apologizes to me for
calling me and my country names.
I do not believe that I was the only one to express dismay at
the note that Jigong wrote, but I was the only one who wrote
back to indicate that I was really insulted and offended.
Thank you and let us move to productive ground.
haozertree
arn_werks wrote:
> I described my actions toward two people who offended me over a
> long time span.
> In the first case a person presented what appeared to be a fine
> and legitimate project that my company would subcontract to
> produce a small golf cart. He lied about being able to
> distribute and broke the contract in other legal ways. I stuck
> a revolver literally up his left nostril and told him to get out
> of dodge or I' kill him. He left.
LOL, since this is cross posted to alt.law-enforcement I would really
like to see what experts think of this. Clearly the other guy is guilty
of fraud but the racist arn_werk is guilty of assault with a
deadly weapon, a felony.
> In the case of another incident, a person made a habit of going
> at a speed over 60m in front of my drive way. I confronted him
> when he returned one day. He aimed the motorcycle right at me
> to intimidate me into jumping out of the way. I have a lot of
> spinal problems and don't jump well, so i pointed a 45 at him.
> He stopped and started yelling about how I could not point a
> pistol at him. I clicked the safety off and explained that he
> was welcome to ride slowly past my drive way. I explained that
> I would use him for a moving target next time he went too fast
> by my driveway. The sheriff and his deputy said just to call
> them if I had to kill him. He has not been back. Two other
> riders came by. I called the sheriff since my wife did not want
> me kill two people. The deputy showed up and when the riders
> came back, the deputy did his work, and asked me what I wanted
> to do. I explained to the riders what they had done to annoy
> me. They said that they did not realize that they were causing
> me offense and so I asked them to please go by my place more
> slowly from now on. They have been back several times and have
> honored their word.
I am glad I don't live in a place where sheriff cares about jack and
citizens enforce justice by their own hands. Sounds like wild wild west
to me.
> Mark, again I am calling you a liar. I deliberately insulted
> Jigong as have others. I told you on more than one time that I
> intended to insult him. I extend the same invitation to him
> that I extended to Mr. Victor Chan, that if he wishes to engage
> in a civilized discourse, that I would welcome such an
> opportunity.
Here is how the racist arn_werks 'intend' to insult ONE individual:
"Please understand that you[Chinese] are of the race of yellow dwarves who
have delusions of gender. Please understand that virtually all
Americans would be happy to see you all on Mars or laid end to
end at the sea bottom, or just plain dead."
Here is another gem:
"An educated chinaman is as interesting as a pig that sings a
pure operatic high C note, but no one wants to hear it but
once. You are descended from a horde of thieves and ruled by
one gang or another since the first day of your of your
existence."
And now tell us how Arn_werks intending to JUST insult one person
as opposed to a whole race? What is more funny is that the racist
insults come from someone who claims that there are no races.
> I pointed out to Mark that he should not step between to parties
> who may be getting ready to cut each other up with large pocket
> knives. It really is nice to have peace and quite and I agree
> with Mark that people ought not to fight in public and bother
> other people. But you interfere at your own risk.
What a dumb asshole. This is the internet. Racist Arn_werks and
racist Jigong are having a flame war. "Ready to cut each other up with
large pocket knives" MY ASS. Anyone could interfere and flame
one of you racists. There are NO risk involved unless you put your
real name and address down, then psychos like Arn_werks would probably
go over your home and stick a gun in your face cuz he doesn't agree with you.
Fortunately, in most places Arn_werks would also be the one who would be
arrested and put into jail like the criminal he is.
> > > That's an admirable sentiment, but many police officers have
> > > been hurt doing what you want to do so casually,
>
> Mark, I think that i have no reason to worry about your opinion
> with respect to my education or intelligence.
Racist bullies usually don't worry about other people's opinions, that
is exactly why they are what they are.
> Mark, do you know that according a decision by the Supermes that
> you have no right to individual protection by the police and
> that they a duty to try to protect the community, they have
> absolutely no obligation to protect you specifically?
Oh yay, so lets all go out and buy ourselves guns and start shooting people
who have stepped on our toes. Who needs the police anyways. In Arn_werk's
world this is justice, in the real world Arn_werks should be arrested and put away
for assault with a deadly weapon.
Mark Ferguson
Unlike most you encounter you would find a physical confrontation with
me not to your liking. Yes I have been shot, yes I have been beaten
with baseball bats, yes I have been stabbed. Do not mistake my
politeness for weakness it would be an error on your part.
You attempted to insult me and then give the appearance of my
ignorance attributing it to my apparent youth. Another error on your
part. I am not sixty years old but it appears I have learned much more
then you in a much shorter time frame. I must attribute this to a steep
learning curve or your inability to comprehend complex or even the most
rudimentary concepts.
You aren't even entertaining and seem to have no value what so ever in
the grand scheme of things. You claim a Scottish history. I provided
some Scottish history for you. You must have seen Braveheart to claim
your ancestors donned the color blue when in battle.
There is an obscure mention of a meeting between the character played
by Mel Gibson and Robert the Bruce. Robert De Bruce was the actual
individual that fought at Balmoral and won the independence for
Scotland. Scotish history is very interesting as are the histories of
many other countries and cultures like the Nomans, Saxon, Francs,
Britains and many more.
The recent movie, The Thirteenth Warrior was actually an old myth
called Bayawolf from the Norsemen, (later known as the Normans). The
movie was based on the book by Michael Crichton named Eaters of the
Dead.
You don't know even a tenth of what you profess to know.
There was a study regarding Mitochondria DNA, (Passed from mother to
daughter), a little while back that showed a relationship between all
women in the world. If this study is accurate, as is the study for the
Jewish men in Israel and the enclave of Jewish in Africa then it goes to
prove all human beings are related and descended from a base set.
You, sir, are a racist and a bore. You don't seem to have any
redeeming qualities and I have been polite to you. Remember to never
mistake courtesy and/or manners as weakness. You might be awakened
rudely if you do.
arn_werks wrote more bullshite that's been snipped:
--
Cheers Mark
PS Now it is off to make merinated tri-tip, white corn and green beans
better known as dinner.
Mark Ferguson
Jigong didn't insult anybody. Of course this would be clear if you
actually paid attention:
----------------- Jigong's post ------------------->>>
This is just one of the many episodes which show how arrogant the
Americans
are. They (Americans, including the judge!) think that the American Law
(which has NOT in any way 'approvad' by any non-American!) is appliable
to
events ('crimes'?) occuring in other countries!
The Americans are also, in a way, telling the whole world to beware of
their
absolute dominance and theri intention to 'Americanise' the whole wold!.
----------------- Jigong's post ------------------->>>
While Jigong's english might not be that good it is still better then
some native born American's that I have read.
Next excuse please.
nosp...@my-deja.com
2 Falun Gong Members Reportedly Killed
By MARTIN FACKLER
Associated Press Writer
BEIJING (AP) — Two members of the banned Falun Gong sect have died in
custody, the latest deaths in China's crackdown on the spiritual
movement, a rights group reported Wednesday.
The deaths bring to at least 52 the number of Falun Gong followers who
have died in detention, the Hong Kong-based Information Center for
Human Rights and Democracy reported. While it has not commented on
every case, the government has denied the deaths were the result of
mistreatment.
In a letter to President Jiang Zemin, Falun Gong practitioners have
threatened to mount more protests if authorities detain sect members
ahead of National Day on Sunday.
``All the Falun Gong followers throughout China will go to Tiananmen
Square to peacefully petition'' for an end to the crackdown on the
group, said the letter dated Sept. 20. The letter was faxed to foreign
news agencies and posted on the group's U.S.-based Web site.
Before it was outlawed in July 1999, Falun Gong attracted millions with
its mix of exercise, meditation, Buddhist and Taoist philosophy and the
teachings of Li Hongzhi, who fled to the United States two years ago.
The communist government has mounted a media campaign to discredit the
banned sect. An editorial Wednesday by the state-run Xinhua News Agency
was typical fare, calling Falun Gong ``an evil, treasonous teaching''
and accusing it of causing more than 1,500 deaths.
In the latest case, state media reported Liu Hongfeng, a 36-year-old
elementary school vice principal, hanged himself at home in the
northern city of Lingwu on Sept. 16.
Liu was put into a mental hospital in June after efforts to persuade
him to quit the sect failed, and was released in July when his attitude
``took a turn for the better,'' Xinhua said. The writings of the Falun
Gong founder were found in the room with Liu's body, said a police
officer who confirmed the Xinhua account.
The Hong Kong-based information center said Tao Hongsheng, a 46-year-
old former policeman in Hebei province, died Sept. 20 after suffering
from diarrhea and other ailments. Sentenced to three years for
protesting in Tiananmen Square in December, Tao was held in a detention
center in Shijiazhuang, Hebei's capital, the group said.
Officials at the detention center were unavailable for comment.
Another sect follower, Shi Bei, died Sept. 10 after being put into a
mental hospital in eastern Hangzhou city. During three months there,
she was regularly denied food and given unspecified injections, the
center said.
An official at the mental hospital refused to comment on the report.
Norm Bunting
>
> Hi idiot boy,
>
> Jigong didn't insult anybody. Of course this would be clear if you
> actually paid attention:
>
> ----------------- Jigong's post ------------------->>>
>
> This is just one of the many episodes which show how arrogant the
> Americans
> are.
Mark Ferguson can't you read? Comrade Jigong's first sentence above
arrogantly insults all Americans (men, women or children) as arrogant.
Most American's are not paying attention to the propaganda line of
Comrade Jigong and yet he insults 100% of American's. Just because some
court in New York city denounces the criminal behavior of the Chinese
governmant and its leadership, Jigong chooses to stereotype and insult
all Americans. Jigong is an unrepentant racist and running dog of a
corrupt Communist regime.
Jim Walsh
wrote:
>Hi idiot boy,
>
>Jigong didn't insult anybody.....
On the other hand, you did. Why did you do so?
Love, Jim
"If a state is governed by the principles of reason,
poverty and misery are the subjects of shame.
If a state is not governed by the principles of reason,
riches and honors are the subject of shame."
Confucius, as quoted by Thoreau in Civil Disobedience.
Egas Moniz
> Why not? Since when is it impossible for a dog to bite the hand
> that feeds it (in this case, China and top officials in the federal
> government of the USA)?
>
A very dumb analogy
>
> Dave Simpson
Egas Moniz
arn_werks schrieb:
> Sir:
> You have not the slightest idea of the history of the Chinese if
> you are not aware of the rituals of the early, co called people
> of the Han.
I have much more idea of Chinese history than your whole family!
>
> Personally, I have supported with cash, Chinese students who
> were trying to support the student dissidents in Peking (or
> Beijing) or whatever the proper city name is.
Thank god they were not successful
> They were
> attempting to help China become a Republic based on Law, Chinese
> Law, not some laws imposed by outsiders.
Actual Chinese law was imposed by whom?
>
> How much did you give to support them?
Nothing
> Did you provide fax
> services as I did.
No
> Frankly, I do not give a rat's ass if you
> did or didn't. I would hope that you and your friends would
> have, out of common human decency.
> I probably have a greater appreciation for Chinese art and
> engineering than you have mind or imagination to encompass.
Surely, surely
>
> Speaking of a long tradition of supporting individual rights, is
> the 'de' on the end of your address mean Denmark?
De: Germany (Deutschland)