Ghazal: Ek Maqsad
Amit Malhotra
but it never showed up on Google, so here it is again:
ALUP dostoN ko mera aadab / namaskaar,
bahut arsa hua, ALUP par kuchh likh nahiiN paayaa, masroofiyat hi
kuchh
aisii hai ki kya kareiN, Sahir ka ek misra kuchh aisa hamarii zindagii
ka
hissaa ban gayaa hai ki kuchh puuchhiye mat:
"diivaanah kar diya hai gham-e-rozgaar ne"
ab rozgaar ki kyaa sunaaeiN aap sabhi dostoN ko...
aGjh [3] ke liye jo ash'aar likhe the, unse ek musalsal nazm-numaa
ghazal
taiyyaar huii hai, aap logoN ke saamne pesh kar rahaa huuN, ummiid
kartaa
huuN ke aap sabhi dost apne ta'asuuraat aur apni islaah ki nemat meri
is
chhoTii sii kaavish par zaruur pesh kareiNge.
to arz kiyaa hai:
raah-e-imaan ko laashoN se sajaate kyoN haiN?
log "bhagwaan" ko "shaitaan" banaate kyoN haiN?
saari duniyaa ka agar ek hi Khaaliq hai to phir
ye mazaahib hameiN aapas meiN la.Raate kyoN haiN?
ik kahe "Raam" to dujaa kahe "Allah Allah"
ek maqsad hai to talwaar uThaate kyoN haiN?
sar jhukaate haiN jo sajde meiN tire aie maaliq!
josh meiN aake vo sar apna kaTaate kyoN haiN?
jis taraf dekhouN maiN, insaan nazar aate haiN to,
Khuun-e-insaan ye insaan bahaate kyoN haiN?
jaag aur soch bhi hastii ko banaane vaale,
teri duniyaa ko tire bande jalaate kyoN haiN?
log ye socheiNge "tanhaa" tiri ghazleiN sun kar
"fikr-e-duniyaa ke khayaalaat ise aate kyoN haiN?"
I would really appreciate comments and suggestions to help me improve.
Warm Regards,
Amit Malhotra
Khursheed Ahmed
unhaiN baRe Khoobsoora alfaaz se saNwaaraa hai. Yeh haqeeqat hai ke her
mazhab insaaniyat sikhaata hai, lekin insaan aise shetaan ho gaye haiN ke
mazhab ke naam per hi laRne aur marne ko tayyar rehte haiN.
Aap ki ghazal ka ek ek sher bohat numayaaN hai aur mere Khayaal maiN kisi
tarmeem ki zaroorat nahiN hai. Agar aap munaasib samjheN to ek sher
sayaasi nafrat phelaane waaloN ke Khilaaf bhi shaamil kar lijiye kyooN ke
yeh nafrat mazhab se nahiN mehaz sayaasat se aati hai.
Is fikr-o-Gham maiN sirf aap hi "tanhaa" nahiN, yaqeenan aur logoN ko bhi
"fikr-e-duniyaa ke khayaalaat" aate haiN, lekin farq itna hai ke aap ke
paas tarz-e-kalaam hai jo her kisi ko mayassar nahiN.
Aap ke nek khayalaat ke izhaar ka shukriya,
Faqat,
Khursheed
On 5 Nov 2002, Amit Malhotra wrote:
> .... to arz kiyaa hai:
Sarwar Alam Raz
> I posted this message day before yesterday with my normal news reader,
> but it never showed up on Google, so here it is again:
Amit saaheb: aadaab!
meraa Khayaal thaa k ko'ee na ko'ee alup.navaaz aap kee aavaaz per
:labbaik: kahe gaa aur aap kee taKhleeq per likhe gaa. lekin ab tak to
Khaamoshee hee hai! maiN idhar India jaane kee tai'yyaariyoN meiN
lagaa huaa hooN. lekin pehlee fursat milte hee likhooN gaa. alup kee
Khaamoshee kaa chand logoN se zikr kiyaa thaa k shaayad un ko kuChh
likhne kee teHreek ho to uss kaa unhoN ne kuChh aur hee matlab liyaa!
Ghalatee.haa'e.mazaameN mat pooChh!
Khair! jahaaN itnaa intizaar kiyaa hai chand din aur sahee!
Sarwar Raz :Sarwar:
Raj Kumar
Amit Saahib:
aaj, aek muddat ke ba'ad, idhar se guzraa to aap ki yeh
taKhleeq-e-'ameeq dekh kar dil baaGh baaGh ho gayaa. is taKhleeq meiN,
jo insaani jazbaat kaar-farmaa haiN un ki to jitni bhi ta'areef ki
jaaye kam hai --- is zimn meiN, ham sab ke liye maqaam-e-shukr hai k
hamaare "paasbaan-e-ALUP" janaab-e-Khursheed Saahib (jo k, fitratan,
be-had Khaamosh-taba' vaaqe' huye haiN) ne bhi, dil khol kar, aap ki
taKhleeq ki saraahana ki hai! meri haqeer raaye meiN to ab aap ko kisi
aur saahib-e-ilm-o-daanish ki raaye ka intezaar karne ki zaroorat
naheeN hai
--- voh is liye k aap ne Ghaaliban sunaa hi hoga k "haathii ke paaoN
meiN sab ka paaoN"! :-))
Even so, I thought I won't be too remiss if I come back from my
retirement and say a few words on the technical aspects of your
composition --- words that you, as an ardent student of Urdu poetry,
may not consider unworthy of consideration!
> aGjh [3] ke liye jo ash'aar likhe the, unse ek musalsal nazm-numaa
> ghazal
> taiyyaar huii hai, aap logoN ke saamne pesh kar rahaa huuN, ummiid
> kartaa
> huuN ke aap sabhi dost apne ta'asuuraat aur apni islaah ki nemat meri
> is
> chhoTii sii kaavish par zaruur pesh kareiNge.
aap ne is Ghazal meiN do aisi izaafateN barti haiN jin par maiN
hamesha se eiteraaz karta aayaa hooN --- "raah-e-eemaan" aur
"Khun-e-insaan". mera aqeeda roz-e-avval hi se yeh rahaa hai k aisi
izaafatoN meiN "n" ko "N" se badal jaana chaahiye, jaisa k yahaaN
naheeN ho rahaa! Personally, I will never use such izaafats nor will I
advocate their use to anyone who cares to listen to me! However,
------------
vaaq'ea yeh hai k esaateza ke kalaam meiN aisi izaafateN kaheeN na
kaheeN zaroor mil jaati haiN --- jaisa k "kanz-e-laa-intehaa"
janaab-e-Zafar Saahib aur "sahaab-e-suKhan" janaab-e-Sarwar Saahib ke
mazaameen se zaahir hai, haalaaN-k un as_haab ki di hui misaaloN ki
ginti "aaTe meiN namak" ke baraabar bhi naheeN hai!!!
aur idhar aap haiN k saari Ghazal meiN kul teen adad izaafateN barti
haiN, jin meiN se poori do izaafateN is qabeel ki haiN. Amit Saahib,
yeh koi "aaTe meiN namak" vaali baat naheeN hai, balke yeh to "doodh
meiN paani" vaali baat hai!!! :LOL
ba-har-haal, ab is baareek baal ki khaal utaarne se kyaa haasil hai?
agar aap ko yeh izaafateN ravaa lagti haiN to ham kaun hote haiN aap
ko rokne vaale? :-))
> raah-e-imaan ko laashoN se sajaate kyoN haiN?
> log "bhagwaan" ko "shaitaan" banaate kyoN haiN?
aap ak pehla misra to Khoob hai magar doosre misre meiN "bhagvaan" ko
"shaitaan" banaana kisi had tak naa-gavaar sa lag raha hai --- voh is
liye k log bhagvaan ko shaitaan naheeN banaate, Khud apne aap ko
shaitaan banaate haiN! So, how about this?
log "insaan" ko "shaitaan" banaate kayooN haiN?
>
> saari duniyaa ka agar ek hi Khaaliq hai to phir
> ye mazaahib hameiN aapas meiN la.Raate kyoN haiN?
meri raaye meiN, yeh she'r laa-javaab hai aur kisi bhi tarmeem ka
mohtaaj naheeN hai!
>
> ik kahe "Raam" to dujaa kahe "Allah Allah"
> ek maqsad hai to talwaar uThaate kyoN haiN?
is she'r ke doosre misre meiN agar lafz 'to' ke saath lafz 'phir' aa
jaaye to asar dugnaa ho jaaye! So, how about this?
aek maqsad hai to phir teGh uThaate kayooN haiN?
>
> sar jhukaate haiN jo sajde meiN tire aie maaliq!
> josh meiN aake vo sar apna kaTaate kyoN haiN?
sajde ---> sijde, maaliq ---> maalik.
"josh meiN aa ke ---------"? Amit Saahib, haqeeqat to yeh hai k
beshtar log yeh kaam baRe "ThaNDe dil se" karte haiN! And that, I
think, is the real tragedy here!!!
So, how about this?
sar jhukaate haiN jo sijde meiN tire, ai maalik!
tere hi naam pe sar apna kaTaate kayooN haiN?
> jis taraf dekhouN maiN, insaan nazar aate haiN to,
> Khuun-e-insaan ye insaan bahaate kyoN haiN?
How about this instead?
jis taraf dekhiye, haNgaama hi haNgaama hai!
-------------------------------------------?
>
> jaag aur soch bhi hastii ko banaane vaale,
> teri duniyaa ko tire bande jalaate kyoN haiN?
meri raaye meiN, pehle misre ko kuchh aur shoKh hona chaahiye. So, how
about this?
tuu bhi kuchh soch, zamaane ko banaane vaale!
--------------------------------------------?
>
> log ye socheiNge "tanhaa" tiri ghazleiN sun kar
> "fikr-e-duniyaa ke khayaalaat ise aate kyoN haiN?"
>
chooN-k abhi pichhle she'r meiN lafz "soch" aaya hai is liye behtar
hoga k aisa lafz yahaaN par na aaye! Moreover, I think the second
misra is a bit too soft! So, how about this?
log poochheN ge in ash'aar ko paRh kar 'tanhaa'
tujh ko "is tarah ke" afkaar sataate kayooN haiN?
In this context, I was truly inspired by the following she'r by
Bashiir Badr:
tum abhi shaihr meiN kyaa naye aaye ho?
ruk gaye raah meiN haadisaa dekh kar??????????????
I hope these comments help. In any case, thanks a lot for presenting
so thoughtful a composition on ALUP!
Khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar
UVR
> but it never showed up on Google, so here it is again:
Amit saahib, namaskaar!
aaj baRe dinoN ba'ad ALUP par kuchh *likhne* kii fursat mili
hai to sochaa k kyoN na aap kii 'Ghazal' par chand baateN
'arz kartaa chalooN. After all, not too long ago, you were
kind enough to tell me your opinion of one of my Ghazals,
and, as they say: "no good turn goes unpunished" :)
> aGjh [3] ke liye jo ash'aar likhe the, unse ek musalsal nazm-numaa
> ghazal taiyyaar huii hai, aap logoN ke saamne pesh kar rahaa huuN,
> ummiid kartaa huuN ke aap sabhi dost apne ta'asuuraat aur apni
> islaah ki nemat meri is chhoTii sii kaavish par zaruur pesh kareiNge.
sab se pehle to, Amit saahib, 'Ghazal' ke liye meri aap ko
"sau-sau mubaarkaaN" -- aap ke ash'aar se saaf zaahir hai k
aap aik nek-dil aur dard-mand insaan hi naheeN bal-k aise
shaKhs bhii haiN jo apne dard aur apnii fikr ko alfaaz dete
hue jhijhaktaa naheeN. duniyaa meN aise logoN kii kamii
naheeN jinke *dil* meN aap hii kaa saa dard hai, lekin aise
insaanoN ki saKht kami hai jo is dard ko bayaan karne kaa
*jigar* rakhte haiN! For this, if for nothing else, your
effort deserves applause.
to saahib, yeh to thaa "emotional feedback". ab chaliye aap
kii Ghazal par kuchh "technical feedback" bhi de detaa hooN.
ise "islaaH" na samajhiyegaa -- aap Khoob jaante haiN k maiN
bhii aap hii kii taraH Urdu kaa ek adnaa-saa taalib-'ilm bhar
hooN. agar merii koii baat naa-gawaar guzre, yaa pasand na
aaye, to use "bayaaN se pehle hi bhool" jaaiyegaa.
awwal to yeh jo aap ne apni post ke 'Subject' meN 'ek maqsad'
likhaa hai, yeh kyaa aap kii is "musalsal nazm-numaa Ghazal"
kaa 'title' hai? agar haaN, to 'arz hai k mere Khayaal se
aisi ba-unwaan 'Ghazal' ko, Ghazal naheeN kahaa jaataa, nazm
kahaa jaataa hai. goyaa ab aap maihz "Ghazal-go" shaa'ir
naheeN, "nazm-nawaaz" shaa'ir bhi ho gaye! mubaarak ho! :)
1.
> raah-e-imaan ko laashoN se sajaate kyoN haiN?
> log "bhagwaan" ko "shaitaan" banaate kyoN haiN?
sh'er achchha hai, aur aap kaa Khayaal bhi jaanaa-pehchaanaa
hai, isliye saaf-saaf samajh aataa hai. phir bhi, pehle
misr'e meN "laashoN se *sajaane*" kii tarkeeb kuchh ajeeb
lagtii hai. Imagine saying: "why is the path of faith
*decorated* with corpses?" Sounds odd and hugely morbid,
doesn't it? Instead, something like "Why are corpses
*strewn* on the path of faith" (or "corpses heaped" ...)
would be a more adroit construct. meri raaye meN aap
"laashoN ke Dher lagaanaa", yaa "(laashoN par) laasheN
giraanaa", wG. jaisii taraakeeb istemaal larne kii koshish
kareN.
doosre misr'e se mujhe aik ati-gambheer aiteraaz hai. "log"
bhagwaan ko shaitaan kaise banaa sakte haiN? maanaa k log
bhagwaan hii ke naam par yeh sab maar-kaaT aur dangaa-fasaad
bar-paa karte haiN, lekin in haqeer logoN meN kahaaN aisi
taab k "Raam" yaa "Rahim" ko "Shaitaan" *banaa* DaaleN? aur
yooN bhii, yeh jo duniyaa meN sab anarth ho rahaa hai, yeh
"bhagwaan" ke "shaitaan" ban[aaye] jaane kaa suboot naheeN,
*insaan* ke wahsheepan, *insaan* hii ke *haiwaan* ban jaane
kaa nateejaa haiN! merii raaye meN aap doosre misr'e par
mazeed tab'a-aazmaa`ii kareN aur use badalne kii koshish
kareN to behtar hogaa.
2.
> saari duniyaa ka agar ek hi Khaaliq hai to phir
> ye mazaahib hameiN aapas meiN la.Raate kyoN haiN?
yeh sh'er aap ne AGJH[3] meN bhi 'submit' kiyaa thaa aur tab
bhii mujhe is kaa buniyaadii Khayaal utnaa hii pasand aayaa
thaa jitnaa ab aayaa hai. magar aap kaa yeh sh'er bhii 'aam
dhaarNaa' (popular belief) ke Khilaaf bol rahaa hai. aam
dhaarNaa yeh hai k, jaise Allama Iqbal kaa mash_hoor fiqra
bhi kahtaa hai
"maz_hab naheeN sikhaataa aapas meN bair rakhnaa"
ya'ani "yeh mazaahib" hameN aapas meN naheeN laRaate, bal-k
in maz_haboN ke 'self-styled' rakhwaale aur dharm-prachaarak
hamaare beech phooT Daalte haiN aur laR-marne par uksaate
haiN. lihaaza, aap is taraH kaa koii misr'a sochiye jis meN
'mazaahib' kii jagah 'mazaahib ke rakhwaaloN' par tanz kiyaa
jaaye. ek tajveez:
shaiKh-o-braahman hameN aapas meN laRaate kyoN haiN
It's not a *great* misr'a, but at least it points towards the
"real" creators of strife, don't you think?
3.
> ik kahe "Raam" to dujaa kahe "Allah Allah"
> ek maqsad hai to talwaar uThaate kyoN haiN?
4.
> sar jhukaate haiN jo sajde meiN tire aie maaliq!
> josh meiN aake vo sar apna kaTaate kyoN haiN?
maaliq -> maalik
> jis taraf dekhouN maiN, insaan nazar aate haiN to,
> Khuun-e-insaan ye insaan bahaate kyoN haiN?
pehle misr'e meN "dekhooN" ki waaw (uu) dab rahii hai; sounds
rather odd. Consider "jis taraf dekhiye" instead. pehle
misr'e ko "to" par aap ne shaayad is liye Khatm kiyaa hai k
"taqaabul-e-radeefain" se use paak rakh sakeN, Khayaal bahut
nek hai, magar 'arz hai k iske liye koi doosraa raastaa
iKhtiyaar karne ke baare meN bhi soch leN. lafz "insaan" kii
teen-teen baar sh'er meN takraar hai, agar woh bhi kam kii
jaa sake, to kyaa buraa hai? (sorry!)
5.
> jaag aur soch bhi hastii ko banaane vaale,
> teri duniyaa ko tire bande jalaate kyoN haiN?
nazm meN ab tak aap Khud se muKhaatib the aur baiThe soch rahe
the k "yeh kyaa ho rahaa hai" :) aur ab achaanak aap "hastii
ko banaane waale" se Khitaab kar rahe haiN! aur poori nazm
meN aik akelaa yahii sh'er hai jis meN aap *us* se muKhaatib
haiN! maqte meN phir aap "back to sq. 1" chale gaye! This is
a very strange twist in the modus operandi and, if you ask me,
takes far too much away from the efficacy of the nazm.
is baat par Ghaur keejiye.
6.
> log ye socheiNge "tanhaa" tiri ghazleiN sun kar
> "fikr-e-duniyaa ke khayaalaat ise aate kyoN haiN?"
maqt'a achchaa hai; "tiri GhazleN" kii jagah "tiri nazmeN"
kah leejiye. pehle misr'e ke liye ek 'suggestion' hai:
log socheNge, ai "tanhaa", terii nazmeN paRh kar
> I would really appreciate comments and suggestions to help me improve.
Hope these help. Remember: you asked for them! :) LOL So,
please excuse any transgressions of politeness and propriety
on my part.
Regards,
UVR.
Sarwar Alam Raz
> but it never showed up on Google, so here it is again:
Amit saaheb: namaste!
Hasb.e.va'da Haazir hooN. aap kee Ghazal.e.musalsal (yaa nazm) kaa
apnaa aahaNg aur zer.o.bum (rhythm) haiN jin ko badalne kee zaroorat
naheeN hai. yeh taKhleeq aap ke dilee karb aur dard kee aa'eena.daar
hai aur her saaHib.e.dil aur Hissaass shaKhs aaj kal ke Haalaat ke
tanaazur meiN yehee kuChh sochtaa hai. aik kaamyaab taKhleeq per
mubaarak.baad qubool kareN!
aik aadh Ghair.ahem see baat likh rahaa hooN. dekh leN. agar dil na
jame to ko'ee muzaa'iqa naheeN!
> raah-e-imaan ko laashoN se sajaate kyoN haiN?
> log "bhagwaan" ko "shaitaan" banaate kyoN haiN?
> saari duniyaa ka agar ek hi Khaaliq hai to phir
> ye mazaahib hameiN aapas meiN la.Raate kyoN haiN?
>
> ik kahe "Raam" to dujaa kahe "Allah Allah"
> ek maqsad hai to talwaar uThaate kyoN haiN?
>
> sar jhukaate haiN jo sajde meiN tire aie maaliq!
> josh meiN aake vo sar apna kaTaate kyoN haiN?
yeh chaaroN ash'aar apnee safaa'ee aur saadgee meiN Khoob haiN aur in
meiN kisee tarmeem yaa izaafe kee ko'ee Haajat naheeN hai. merHabaa!
> jis taraf dekhouN maiN, insaan nazar aate haiN to,
> Khuun-e-insaan ye insaan bahaate kyoN haiN?
mujh ko pehlaa misra zaraa kamzor lagaa. ho saktaa ho k yeh meree
samajh kaa hee qusoor ho. ba.her Haal meree raa'e hai k iss ko yooN
kar deN taa.k iss meiN asar aur zor baRh jaaye aur doosre misre se iss
kaa rabt vaazeh aur mazboot ho jaaye:
saare insaanoN meiN gar Khoon kaa ik rishta hai
Khoon.e.insaan-----------------
> jaag aur soch bhi hastii ko banaane vaale,
> teri duniyaa ko tire bande jalaate kyoN haiN?
:jaag: se ma'loom hotaa hai jaise :ooper vaalaa: so rahaa hai aur
:soch: kaa amal uss se vaabasta naheeN hai kyoN.k voh to :aql.e.kul:
hai aur :soch: ke saath saHeeH aur Ghalat faisile kaa imkaan lagaa
huaa hai. yooN kaheN?
too hee batlaa mujhe duniyaa ko banaane vaale
teree ---------------------
> log ye socheiNge "tanhaa" tiri ghazleiN sun kar
> "fikr-e-duniyaa ke khayaalaat ise aate kyoN haiN?"
pehle misre meiN alfaaz ulajh gaye haiN. iss ko ta'qeed.e.lafzee kehte
haiN. zaraa se ulaT.pher se yeh naqs door ho jaaye gaa. doosre meiN
:fikr: aur :Khayaal: taqreeban ham.ma'nee haiN. yooN sochiye?
log yeh socheN ge GhazleN tiree sun kar :tanhaa:
aise gambheer Khayaalat------------
maiN ne :gambhee: bar.sar.e.raahe likh diyaa hai. aap aur kuChh keh
leN.
Khaadim
Sarwar Raz :Sarwar:
Raj Kumar
> 2.
> > saari duniyaa ka agar ek hi Khaaliq hai to phir
> > ye mazaahib hameiN aapas meiN la.Raate kyoN haiN?
>
> yeh sh'er aap ne AGJH[3] meN bhi 'submit' kiyaa thaa aur tab
> bhii mujhe is kaa buniyaadii Khayaal utnaa hii pasand aayaa
> thaa jitnaa ab aayaa hai. magar aap kaa yeh sh'er bhii 'aam
> dhaarNaa' (popular belief) ke Khilaaf bol rahaa hai. aam
> dhaarNaa yeh hai k, jaise Allama Iqbal kaa mash_hoor fiqra
> bhi kahtaa hai
>
> "maz_hab naheeN sikhaataa aapas meN bair rakhnaa"
>
> ya'ani "yeh mazaahib" hameN aapas meN naheeN laRaate, bal-k
> in maz_haboN ke 'self-styled' rakhwaale aur dharm-prachaarak
> hamaare beech phooT Daalte haiN aur laR-marne par uksaate
> haiN. lihaaza, aap is taraH kaa koii misr'a sochiye jis meN
> 'mazaahib' kii jagah 'mazaahib ke rakhwaaloN' par tanz kiyaa
> jaaye. ek tajveez:
>
> shaiKh-o-braahman hameN aapas meN laRaate kyoN haiN
>
> It's not a *great* misr'a, but at least it points towards the
> "real" creators of strife, don't you think?
>
UVR Saahib:
Borrowing my favourite phrase back from you --- maiN "agar aap ke
dar-e-daulat se apni jaan-e-hazeeN ki amaan paaooN" to arz karooN k
aap ka maNdarja-baala misra, *great* ho na ho, kam-az-kam
Khaarij-az-baihr zaroor hai! mujhe hairat hai k jis deeda-vari se aap
ne janaab-e-Sarwar Saahib ke aek haaliya misre par apni
aNgusht-e-nukta-cheeN dhari thi, voh deeda-vari ab kahaaN gayee? :-))
huzoor, aap ka "braahman" to PanjaabiyoN ka "baahman" ho ke reh gayaa
hai!
LOL
is lafz ko yaa to "baraahman" hona chaahiye yaa "bar_haman" --- afsos
k aap ke misre meiN yeh dono soorateN Theek naheeN baiTh raheeN! And
writing it as "braahman" doesn't circumvent the problem at all!
By way of illustration, I'll quote the following beautiful she'r for
your information:
baraahman, naala-e-naaqoos masjid tak bhi pahuNchaa de
ajab kyaa gar mu'azzin Kh(w)aab se be-daar ho jaaye!!!
ab, chalte chalte, aap ko aek maze-daar baat bataata hooN --- voh yeh
k, haal hi meiN, Yogesh Saahib ne kahaa hai k unheN ALUP Ghazal[4] ke
liye koi Khaatir-Khwaah munsif naheeN mil rahaa. maiN,
ba-qaa'imii-e-hosh-o-havaas, un ki Khidmat meiN aap ka ism-e-giraami
pesh karne hi vaala tha k meri nazar aap ke "is" misre par paRi.
fauran apne haath ko roka aur apne aap ko samjhaaya k
naala hai, bulbul-e-shoreeda, tiraa Khaam abhi
apne seene meiN ise aur zaraa thaam abhi!!! :-))
goya, ALUP Ghazal ki *jajji* tak --- ba-qaul-e-shaKhse ---
"tum bhi pahuNcho ge, lekin aaj naheeN"! LOLOL
Khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar
Yashowanto N. Ghosh
Ghazal sunaane ke liye shukriyaa! is ke kuchh asha'r aGjh#3 ke
dauraan dekhne ko mile the---us vaqt bhee bohat achchhe lage the.---
am...@zonecom.com (Amit Malhotra) wrote in message news:<290e31ff.02110...@posting.google.com>...
>
> raah-e-imaan ko laashoN se sajaate kyoN haiN?
> log "bhagwaan" ko "shaitaan" banaate kyoN haiN?
yahaaN aap kaa andaaz bohat achchhaa lagaa. "log bhagvaan ko..."
is a beautiful way to express the thought.
>
> saari duniyaa ka agar ek hi Khaaliq hai to phir
> ye mazaahib hameiN aapas meiN la.Raate kyoN haiN?
>
> ik kahe "Raam" to dujaa kahe "Allah Allah"
> ek maqsad hai to talwaar uThaate kyoN haiN?
yahaaN aik savaal hai.---Huzoor, jo "talvaar uThaate" haiN unhe is
baat kaa eHsaas kahaaN hai k "ek maqsad hai"? agar ahl-e-duniyaa
ko ko'ee yeh samjhaa de k sab mazaahib ke maqsad aik hee hai to
beshtar mushkilaat Khud-ba-Khud hal ho jaayeNge.
>
> sar jhukaate haiN jo sajde meiN tire aie maaliq!
> josh meiN aake vo sar apna kaTaate kyoN haiN?
>
> jis taraf dekhouN maiN, insaan nazar aate haiN to,
> Khuun-e-insaan ye insaan bahaate kyoN haiN?
yeh she'r to :in general: duniyaa kee saaree :violence: par laagoo
hai, na k sirf :religious riots: par. bohat Khoob!
>
> jaag aur soch bhi hastii ko banaane vaale,
> teri duniyaa ko tire bande jalaate kyoN haiN?
>
> log ye socheiNge "tanhaa" tiri ghazleiN sun kar
> "fikr-e-duniyaa ke khayaalaat ise aate kyoN haiN?"
>
aaKhir meiN aik baar phir Ghazal sunaane ke liye shukriyaa! aap kee
aglee Ghazal kaa intezaar rahegaa.
With best regards,
Jasho.
Yashowanto N. Ghosh
Please pardon my intrusion, sir, but...
rajkum...@hotmail.com (Raj Kumar) wrote in message news:<c10928a.02110...@posting.google.com>...
>
> Even so, I thought I won't be too remiss if I come back from my
> retirement and say a few words on the technical aspects of your
> composition --- words that you, as an ardent student of Urdu poetry,
> may not consider unworthy of consideration!
>
Huzoor, kaisee aur kaun see "retirement"?!! I sincerely hope that it's
not what I fear!
aap yeh "retirement" ke baare meiN sochne lageNge to ham sab kaa kyaa
hogaa?
aap ne aik baar kahaa thaa k is zameen meiN aik Ghazal sunaayeNge---
maiN us kaa intezaar kar rahaa hooN.
With best regards,
Jasho.
Amit Malhotra
Aadab Khursheed Sahib,
Bhai, Raj sahib ne ek baar kahaa thaa:
"navaa-e-dil ne karishme dikhaaye haiN kya kya
miri azaaN ne namaazi jagaaye haiN kya kya!"
ab dekhiye hamarii aavaaz ne bhi kitne karishme dikhaa diye.. udhar
Abida sahiba ne bhi apne ta'asuuraat bhej diye, idhar aap ne bhi. It
was very heart-warming to see all the response. I was only hoping for
techincal feedback to help me improve, but I'm very glad to see that
there has been emotional feedback (as per UVR sahib) to my writings as
well. Sincere thanks for your thoughts on my "koshish" as well as the
matter. :-)
> Aadaab arz hai, Amit Saheb. Bohat nafees jazbaat jaiN aap ke aur aap ne
> unhaiN baRe Khoobsoora alfaaz se saNwaaraa hai. Yeh haqeeqat hai ke her
> mazhab insaaniyat sikhaata hai, lekin insaan aise shetaan ho gaye haiN ke
> mazhab ke naam per hi laRne aur marne ko tayyar rehte haiN.
>
aapne bilkul sahi kahaa. Aajkal logoN ko pata nahiiN kya ho rahaa hai
ki jo mazhab, aman ki raah dikhaate haiN, unhi mazaahib ke naam par
talvaar uThaana kya, uske ist'emaal par bhi utar aaye haiN
> Aap ki ghazal ka ek ek sher bohat numayaaN hai aur mere Khayaal maiN kisi
> tarmeem ki zaroorat nahiN hai. Agar aap munaasib samjheN to ek sher
> sayaasi nafrat phelaane waaloN ke Khilaaf bhi shaamil kar lijiye kyooN ke
> yeh nafrat mazhab se nahiN mehaz sayaasat se aati hai.
ji, idhar se puuri koshish karouNgaa ke aik sh'er siyaasat par bhi
likh duuN. iraada to yahii thaa, magar abhi ham sh'er-o-sh'aari ke fan
ko siikh rahe haiN aur apne jazbaat ko lafzoN meiN Dhaalanaa bahut hi
pechidaa kaam hai :-)
> Is fikr-o-Gham maiN sirf aap hi "tanhaa" nahiN, yaqeenan aur logoN ko bhi
> "fikr-e-duniyaa ke khayaalaat" aate haiN, lekin farq itna hai ke aap ke
> paas tarz-e-kalaam hai jo her kisi ko mayassar nahiN.
>
tarz-e-kalaam to hameiN bhi bahut kam kam hi mayassar huaa hai...
koshish to yahii hai ke jitna ho sakta hai, usii se kuchh banaa liyaa
jaaye.
ek baar phir aapka bahut shukriya
Warm Regards
Amit Malhotra
Amit Malhotra
>
Namaste Raj Kumar Sahib,
Bhagwaan jhooTh na bulvaaye, aapkii islaah aur ta'asuurat ka bahut
besabrii se intezaar thaa.
> aaj, aek muddat ke ba'ad, idhar se guzraa to aap ki yeh
> taKhleeq-e-'ameeq dekh kar dil baaGh baaGh ho gayaa. is taKhleeq meiN,
> jo insaani jazbaat kaar-farmaa haiN un ki to jitni bhi ta'areef ki
> jaaye kam hai --- is zimn meiN, ham sab ke liye maqaam-e-shukr hai k
Shukriya :-)
> hamaare "paasbaan-e-ALUP" janaab-e-Khursheed Saahib (jo k, fitratan,
> be-had Khaamosh-taba' vaaqe' huye haiN) ne bhi, dil khol kar, aap ki
> taKhleeq ki saraahana ki hai! meri haqeer raaye meiN to ab aap ko kisi
> aur saahib-e-ilm-o-daanish ki raaye ka intezaar karne ki zaroorat
> naheeN hai
> --- voh is liye k aap ne Ghaaliban sunaa hi hoga k "haathii ke paaoN
> meiN sab ka paaoN"! :-))
jahaaN tak is muhaavre kii baat hai, pahli baar suna hai.. (and there
is always a first time for everything)... aur jahaaN tak Khursheed
sahib ke comments ka savaal hai, unke naam jo reply kii hai, usme
aapka ek behtareen sh'er quote kar ke hamne us baat ko bhi saaf kar
diya ;-)
>
> Even so, I thought I won't be too remiss if I come back from my
> retirement and say a few words on the technical aspects of your
> composition --- words that you, as an ardent student of Urdu poetry,
> may not consider unworthy of consideration!
>
vaise aapko to "retire" hona hi nahin chahiye thaa.. dekhiye na,
Sarwar sahib bhi kah rahe the ki aajkal ALUP par kuchh khaamoshi sii
chhaii hai... aGjh [4] ka bhi intezaar ho rahaa hai, us series ne to
bazm mein ra.ng jamaa rakkhaa hai. By the way, techinical feedback was
what I was hoping for, aur meri khush-qismati dekhiye, ek nahiiN,
hameiN to khoob saari technical feedback mil rahi hai :)
> aap ne is Ghazal meiN do aisi izaafateN barti haiN jin par maiN
> hamesha se eiteraaz karta aayaa hooN --- "raah-e-eemaan" aur
> "Khun-e-insaan". mera aqeeda roz-e-avval hi se yeh rahaa hai k aisi
> izaafatoN meiN "n" ko "N" se badal jaana chaahiye, jaisa k yahaaN
> naheeN ho rahaa! Personally, I will never use such izaafats nor will I
> advocate their use to anyone who cares to listen to me! However,
> ------------
you are right, aisii izaafatoN (is this a correct plural?) par pichhle
dinoN ALUP par kaafi garma-garmi rahi hai aur yasho sahib ne apni
recent post mein kya sahi conclusion nikaalaa hai. aage se ham is
tarah ki izaafatoN se parhez kareinge kyoN ki aap to hamare guru ji
hain (jaisa ki Abida sahiba ne kahaa hai) aur agar aap in "izaafats"
ko advocate nahin kareinge, to hameiN inka ist'emaal bhi nahin karnaa
chahiye.
> ginti "aaTe meiN namak" ke baraabar bhi naheeN hai!!!
>
> aur idhar aap haiN k saari Ghazal meiN kul teen adad izaafateN barti
> haiN, jin meiN se poori do izaafateN is qabeel ki haiN. Amit Saahib,
> yeh koi "aaTe meiN namak" vaali baat naheeN hai, balke yeh to "doodh
> meiN paani" vaali baat hai!!! :LOL
vaise aapka doodh vaala kaun hai bhai jo itna paani daaltaa hai?
aapko bhi chahiye ki hamari tarah doodh packets mein khariideiN :).
but its true that i used only three of them and two of them were
against the rule! I have to say though, "raah-e-imaan" had a certain
flow to it for me, but when I was using "Khuun-e-insaan" then i
thought about it and I did consider it for a long time whether I
should say that or should i say: "Khuun insaan ka" this way, i would
have avoided the use of that izaafat.
>
> > raah-e-imaan ko laashoN se sajaate kyoN haiN?
> > log "bhagwaan" ko "shaitaan" banaate kyoN haiN?
>
> aap ak pehla misra to Khoob hai magar doosre misre meiN "bhagvaan" ko
> "shaitaan" banaana kisi had tak naa-gavaar sa lag raha hai --- voh is
> liye k log bhagvaan ko shaitaan naheeN banaate, Khud apne aap ko
> shaitaan banaate haiN! So, how about this?
>
> log "insaan" ko "shaitaan" banaate kayooN haiN?
>
doosre misre pe jo aitraaz aapne uThaayaa hai, vahi UVR sahib ne bhi
uThaayaa ki yahaaN par "bhagwaan" ko Shaitaan" banaane vaali kaunsii
baat thi! Now that I look at it, i see that i failed to convey my
thoughts, otherwise, it would have been clear why I said that. The
reason I said that with raah-e-iimaan is because, vo raah, jo bhagwaan
tak le kar jaati hai hameiN, usi raah ko log laashon se yuuN sajaa
raheiN hai jaise bhagwaan nahin, shaitaan ke paas jaa rahe hoN!! I
will think aobut it again with your suggesiton in mind. :-)
> > ik kahe "Raam" to dujaa kahe "Allah Allah"
> > ek maqsad hai to talwaar uThaate kyoN haiN?
>
> is she'r ke doosre misre meiN agar lafz 'to' ke saath lafz 'phir' aa
> jaaye to asar dugnaa ho jaaye! So, how about this?
>
> aek maqsad hai to phir teGh uThaate kayooN haiN?
>
sounds good to me. "phir" does add a nice flow to the whole misra.
> > sar jhukaate haiN jo sajde meiN tire aie maaliq!
> > josh meiN aake vo sar apna kaTaate kyoN haiN?
>
> sajde ---> sijde, maaliq ---> maalik.
>
> "josh meiN aa ke ---------"? Amit Saahib, haqeeqat to yeh hai k
> beshtar log yeh kaam baRe "ThaNDe dil se" karte haiN! And that, I
> think, is the real tragedy here!!!
>
> So, how about this?
>
> sar jhukaate haiN jo sijde meiN tire, ai maalik!
> tere hi naam pe sar apna kaTaate kayooN haiN?
>
ji, jo log ye kaam ThaNDe dil se karte haiN, vo to asli "manipulators"
haiN, aur kya pataa vo log sijde meiN maalik ke saamne sar jhukaate
bhi haiN ke nahiiN! and you are right, that is the real tragedy. unhi
logoN par Khursheed sahib ne bhi ek sh'er likhne ko kahaa hai.. aur
baat ye hai ki jo manipulators haiN, vo aam aadmiyoN ko josh mein le
aate haiN! aur vo aam aadmi jo sijde mein sar jhukaa kar baiThtaa hai,
vo josh meiN aa kar apne usi sar ko kaTvaane pe tul jaata hai.
> > jis taraf dekhouN maiN, insaan nazar aate haiN to,
> > Khuun-e-insaan ye insaan bahaate kyoN haiN?
>
> How about this instead?
>
> jis taraf dekhiye, haNgaama hi haNgaama hai!
> -------------------------------------------?
>
sounds really good also... Sarwar sahib also suggested an alternative
to it.
> >
> > jaag aur soch bhi hastii ko banaane vaale,
> > teri duniyaa ko tire bande jalaate kyoN haiN?
>
> meri raaye meiN, pehle misre ko kuchh aur shoKh hona chaahiye. So, how
> about this?
>
> tuu bhi kuchh soch, zamaane ko banaane vaale!
> --------------------------------------------?
>
yahaaN par bhi Sarwar sahib ne ek suggestion diya hai.. iske baare
mein bhi sochna paRega..
> > log ye socheiNge "tanhaa" tiri ghazleiN sun kar
> > "fikr-e-duniyaa ke khayaalaat ise aate kyoN haiN?"
> >
>
> chooN-k abhi pichhle she'r meiN lafz "soch" aaya hai is liye behtar
> hoga k aisa lafz yahaaN par na aaye! Moreover, I think the second
> misra is a bit too soft! So, how about this?
>
> log poochheN ge in ash'aar ko paRh kar 'tanhaa'
> tujh ko "is tarah ke" afkaar sataate kayooN haiN?
>
I love the way you worded the maqta!
> In this context, I was truly inspired by the following she'r by
> Bashiir Badr:
>
> tum abhi shaihr meiN kyaa naye aaye ho?
> ruk gaye raah meiN haadisaa dekh kar??????????????
>
waah!
> I hope these comments help. In any case, thanks a lot for presenting
> so thoughtful a composition on ALUP!
>
Ustaad ji, aap kii hauslaa-afzaai, aapki islaah aur aapke ta'asuuraat
ke liye bahut bahut shukriya. is taraf se puuri koshish karounga ke
aapkii islaah par amal karoun.
tah-e-dil se shukrguzaar,
Amit Malhotra
> Khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar
UVR
> u...@usa.net (UVR) wrote in message news:<9c085b63.02110...@posting.google.com>...>
>
>>2.
>>
>>>saari duniyaa ka agar ek hi Khaaliq hai to phir
>>>ye mazaahib hameiN aapas meiN la.Raate kyoN haiN?
>>
>>'mazaahib' kii jagah 'mazaahib ke rakhwaaloN' par tanz kiyaa
>>jaaye. ek tajveez:
>>
>>shaiKh-o-braahman hameN aapas meN laRaate kyoN haiN
>>
>>It's not a *great* misr'a, but at least it points towards the
>>"real" creators of strife, don't you think?
>
> UVR Saahib:
>
> Borrowing my favourite phrase back from you --- maiN "agar aap ke
> dar-e-daulat se apni jaan-e-hazeeN ki amaan paaooN" to arz karooN k
> aap ka maNdarja-baala misra, *great* ho na ho, kam-az-kam
> Khaarij-az-baihr zaroor hai! mujhe hairat hai k jis deeda-vari se aap
> ne janaab-e-Sarwar Saahib ke aek haaliya misre par apni
> aNgusht-e-nukta-cheeN dhari thi, voh deeda-vari ab kahaaN gayee? :-))
> huzoor, aap ka "braahman" to PanjaabiyoN ka "baahman" ho ke reh gayaa
> hai!
> LOL
>
> is lafz ko yaa to "baraahman" hona chaahiye yaa "bar_haman" --- afsos
> k aap ke misre meiN yeh dono soorateN Theek naheeN baiTh raheeN! And
> writing it as "braahman" doesn't circumvent the problem at all!
Raj Kumar saahib,
If I am guilty of anything here, it is of naivete, and not of
wantonly flouting the restrictions of this behr. I was under
the impression that "braahman", which is the 'right and propah'
pronunciation of this word in Hindi and Sanskrit, is also one
of the accepted ways of pronouncing this word in Urdu. This
impression, you will be astonished to know, was based on the
word of none other than John T. Platts, (the famous lexico-
grapher), whose dictionary lists "braahman" as *the* correct
pronunciation of the word! Not only that, it even states that
'biraahman' is the "vulg." (vulgar) form of this word. What's
more, Platts doesn't even list "baraahman" in his dictionary.
My (mis)impression was further strengthened by the entry for
"baraahimah" in Ferozesons' Urdu-English dictionary [which I
found stacked in the local branch of the county library]. The
word is listed as the plural of "brahman" (written in Urdu,
and transliterated into English).
My credibility on ALUP is rather close to zero these days, but
fortunately for me, these two tomes are easily available else-
where (Platts' is even online) for ready reference by all.
> By way of illustration, I'll quote the following beautiful she'r for
> your information:
>
> baraahman, naala-e-naaqoos masjid tak bhi pahuNchaa de
> ajab kyaa gar mu'azzin Kh(w)aab se be-daar ho jaaye!!!
Wow. Great! I had also previously come across couplets like:
1. dekhiye paate haiN ushshaaq butoN se kyaa faiz
ik baraahman ne kahaa hai k yeh saal achchhaa hai (Ghalib)
2. sach kah dooN ai baraahman gar tuu buraa na maane
tere sanam_kadoN ke but ho gaye puraane (Iqbal)
However, having no reason to discredit either Platts+Ferozesons'
or Ghalib+Iqbal, I simply came to the naive conclusion that BOTH
pronunciations were equally valid in Urdu. This was why I wrote
"shaiKh-o-braahman". You do agree, don't you, Raj saahib, that
inasmuch as this conclusion goes, there is no error of behr in
my misra?
Anyway, today, after reading your post, I rushed back to the
library and picked up a couple of Persian-English dictionaries
(one of which was Steingass'). To my astonishment, "barahman"
was the ONLY version of the word mentioned therein! :(
So, the Urdu dictionaries are apparently in error: "braahman"
is patently incorrect! It's not even an acceptable variant!
But how am I, a mere student of Urdu, expected to know that? :(
> ab, chalte chalte, aap ko aek maze-daar baat bataata hooN --- voh yeh
> k, haal hi meiN, Yogesh Saahib ne kahaa hai k unheN ALUP Ghazal[4] ke
> liye koi Khaatir-Khwaah munsif naheeN mil rahaa. maiN,
> ba-qaa'imii-e-hosh-o-havaas, un ki Khidmat meiN aap ka ism-e-giraami
> pesh karne hi vaala tha k meri nazar aap ke "is" misre par paRi.
> fauran apne haath ko roka aur apne aap ko samjhaaya k
>
> naala hai, bulbul-e-shoreeda, tiraa Khaam abhi
> apne seene meiN ise aur zaraa thaam abhi!!! :-))
>
> goya, ALUP Ghazal ki *jajji* tak --- ba-qaul-e-shaKhse ---
> "tum bhi pahuNcho ge, lekin aaj naheeN"! LOLOL
But of course! Believe it or not, I am actually very *glad*
that you did not suggest my name to Yogesh-ji -- regardless
of your reasons for not having done so! I am quite aware
that the task of judging the AGJH involves far greater poetic
faculties than I currently possess. Indeed, even if you had
been so kind as to forward my name to Yogesh-ji, I would have
declined his invitation to be the judge for AGJH[4] (as he
will himself tell you have done in the past).
On an unrelated note, I am happy to note that my post has
succeeded in delaying your "retirement" by a few more days.
I would like to take this opportunity to request you to
CANCEL your retirement completely! zara ham bachchoN kii
bhii to sochiye, Raj saahib?! agar aap ne yooN "vaanaprasth
aashram" kaa ruKh kar liyaa, to ham bechaaroN kii kyaa gat hogii?
-UVR.
Amit Malhotra
Warning: JUST A Little longer than I thought :-)
> Amit saahib, namaskaar!
>
Namaste UVR Sahib,
pahli baat to aapka bahut shukriya ke aapne vaqt nikaal kar hamari
taKhliiq par cha.nd lafz likhe. Doosri baat, aapki emotional feedback
was a great added bonus. Like I said in my other replies, i was only
expecting Technical feedback, but it has really been heart-warming to
see that I managed to touch everybody emotionally as well... mission
accomplished.
> aaj baRe dinoN ba'ad ALUP par kuchh *likhne* kii fursat mili
> hai to sochaa k kyoN na aap kii 'Ghazal' par chand baateN
> 'arz kartaa chalooN. After all, not too long ago, you were
> kind enough to tell me your opinion of one of my Ghazals,
> and, as they say: "no good turn goes unpunished" :)
i should keep on doing these good deeds ;-)
> sab se pehle to, Amit saahib, 'Ghazal' ke liye meri aap ko
> "sau-sau mubaarkaaN" -- aap ke ash'aar se saaf zaahir hai k
> aap aik nek-dil aur dard-mand insaan hi naheeN bal-k aise
> shaKhs bhii haiN jo apne dard aur apnii fikr ko alfaaz dete
> hue jhijhaktaa naheeN. duniyaa meN aise logoN kii kamii
> naheeN jinke *dil* meN aap hii kaa saa dard hai, lekin aise
> insaanoN ki saKht kami hai jo is dard ko bayaan karne kaa
> *jigar* rakhte haiN! For this, if for nothing else, your
> effort deserves applause.
>
mubaarkaaN laii tuhaDaa dhanvaad :-) pichhle dinoN masroofiyat itni
rahi hai ki kuchh bhi karne ko vaqt nahin miltaa thaa, vaqt ki tangii
to ab bhi hai, magar aGjh ke liye, note kijiye, jab bhi kuchh likhne
baiThtaa huuN to jo bhi ash'aar bante haiN, aise hi bante haiN, pata
nahiiN kyoN rumaani shaayari hoti hi nahiiN, abhi abhi ek naii nazm
likhnii shuruu kii hai, vo thoRii rumaani hai.. :)
> to saahib, yeh to thaa "emotional feedback". ab chaliye aap
> kii Ghazal par kuchh "technical feedback" bhi de detaa hooN.
> ise "islaaH" na samajhiyegaa -- aap Khoob jaante haiN k maiN
> bhii aap hii kii taraH Urdu kaa ek adnaa-saa taalib-'ilm bhar
> hooN. agar merii koii baat naa-gawaar guzre, yaa pasand na
> aaye, to use "bayaaN se pehle hi bhool" jaaiyegaa.
>
naa-gawaar kii to koi baat hi nahin UVR sahib, ham to isii ummiid meiN
baiThte haiN ki sabhi hamarii writings ke upar kuchh likheiN taaki
hameiN bhi kuchh siikhne ka mauqaa mile!
> awwal to yeh jo aap ne apni post ke 'Subject' meN 'ek maqsad'
> likhaa hai, yeh kyaa aap kii is "musalsal nazm-numaa Ghazal"
> kaa 'title' hai? agar haaN, to 'arz hai k mere Khayaal se
> aisi ba-unwaan 'Ghazal' ko, Ghazal naheeN kahaa jaataa, nazm
> kahaa jaataa hai. goyaa ab aap maihz "Ghazal-go" shaa'ir
> naheeN, "nazm-nawaaz" shaa'ir bhi ho gaye! mubaarak ho! :)
now i didnt know that, thanks for the information. I guess i'm
nazm-navaaz now :)
well, my whole idea with the first misra was to make it sound morbid!
becuase the whole thought is morbid itself! I'm sure you agree with
that. You and Raj Sahib both objected to the way i worded my second
misra and I did write a small explanation as to why i did that in my
reply to Raj Sahib, but I wanted to kinda stretch on that here. You
are right that these people can't turn Raam or Rahim into "Shaitaan"
but the whole point was to write it like this. My explanation of this
sh'er is that.. log iimaan ki raah, jo ki bhagwaan tak jaane ka ek
rasta hai, use is tarah se laashoN se "SAJAA" rahe haiN jaise ki
bhagwaan nahiiN, shaitaan ke paas jaa rahe hoN! I guess i really
failed to convey my meaning and I have to rethink it now.. or perhaps
you can tell me if it makes sense to leave it the way it is?
> 2.
> > saari duniyaa ka agar ek hi Khaaliq hai to phir
> > ye mazaahib hameiN aapas meiN la.Raate kyoN haiN?
>
> yeh sh'er aap ne AGJH[3] meN bhi 'submit' kiyaa thaa aur tab
> bhii mujhe is kaa buniyaadii Khayaal utnaa hii pasand aayaa
> thaa jitnaa ab aayaa hai. magar aap kaa yeh sh'er bhii 'aam
> dhaarNaa' (popular belief) ke Khilaaf bol rahaa hai. aam
> dhaarNaa yeh hai k, jaise Allama Iqbal kaa mash_hoor fiqra
> bhi kahtaa hai
>
> "maz_hab naheeN sikhaataa aapas meN bair rakhnaa"
>
> ya'ani "yeh mazaahib" hameN aapas meN naheeN laRaate, bal-k
> in maz_haboN ke 'self-styled' rakhwaale aur dharm-prachaarak
> hamaare beech phooT Daalte haiN aur laR-marne par uksaate
> haiN. lihaaza, aap is taraH kaa koii misr'a sochiye jis meN
> 'mazaahib' kii jagah 'mazaahib ke rakhwaaloN' par tanz kiyaa
> jaaye. ek tajveez:
>
> shaiKh-o-braahman hameN aapas meN laRaate kyoN haiN
>
> It's not a *great* misr'a, but at least it points towards the
> "real" creators of strife, don't you think?
>
you are right yet again that I'm talking against the normal belief
where religion doesnt make you fight, but those who take care of
religion make you fight! I have to say though, the idea here was that
Religion itself is man-made! (I do hope that you read on this in my
aGjh[3] comments as well..). God, has to be one and one only, but man
came up with this religion concept and started saying things like My
God is better than yours! Example is in the ten commandements for
example (no offense to anyone, i'm just taking this to illustrate my
thought process). The first one says: "I am the Lord your God. You
shall not have strange gods before me."; the tenth one says: "You
shall not desire your neighbor's goods." What shall make of this?
God saying that you can not worship other gods, right? If this does
not incite a common person to say, well if I can't desire my
neighbor's gods, then let me go and make sure that the neighbor is not
there! (josh mein aane vaali baat ho gai na) and adding to fuel,
shaiKh-o-braahman do a good job in interpreting things like these to
incite a full blown hatred against the neighbor's gods. Without
getting into a religious debate (and I hope no one starts debating
with me on this), my whole point was to convey the feeling that
mazaahib are also at the bottom of the whole fight, God Remains One,
the Creator, and we can call him whatever we want to, religion should
be a way to reach that creator.
Now that all that is said, of course my point was not conveyed yet
again and I will think about changning the second misra again, afsos
ki aapki islaah meiN be'hr ki tho.Dii si ghalatii thii ;-), Raj sahib
pointed out the right way to say baraahman.... you might have other
suggestions that I can think about?
> > jis taraf dekhouN maiN, insaan nazar aate haiN to,
> > Khuun-e-insaan ye insaan bahaate kyoN haiN?
>
> pehle misr'e meN "dekhooN" ki waaw (uu) dab rahii hai; sounds
> rather odd. Consider "jis taraf dekhiye" instead. pehle
> misr'e ko "to" par aap ne shaayad is liye Khatm kiyaa hai k
> "taqaabul-e-radeefain" se use paak rakh sakeN, Khayaal bahut
> nek hai, magar 'arz hai k iske liye koi doosraa raastaa
> iKhtiyaar karne ke baare meN bhi soch leN. lafz "insaan" kii
> teen-teen baar sh'er meN takraar hai, agar woh bhi kam kii
> jaa sake, to kyaa buraa hai? (sorry!)
is sh'er par hameiN do do suggestions mile haiN :) you are right, i
did not want to have "taqaabul-e-radeefaiN" in my sh'er, tried very
hard to avoid that. About the takraar with the word "insaan" it was
fully intentional to show the importance of the word "insaan" here.
>
> 5.
> > jaag aur soch bhi hastii ko banaane vaale,
> > teri duniyaa ko tire bande jalaate kyoN haiN?
>
> nazm meN ab tak aap Khud se muKhaatib the aur baiThe soch rahe
> the k "yeh kyaa ho rahaa hai" :) aur ab achaanak aap "hastii
> ko banaane waale" se Khitaab kar rahe haiN! aur poori nazm
> meN aik akelaa yahii sh'er hai jis meN aap *us* se muKhaatib
> haiN! maqte meN phir aap "back to sq. 1" chale gaye! This is
> a very strange twist in the modus operandi and, if you ask me,
> takes far too much away from the efficacy of the nazm.
>
> is baat par Ghaur keejiye.
>
ji janaab, bilkul Ghaur kar raheiN haiN, isi baat par nahiiN, aapki
har baat par Ghaur kar raheiN haiN:)
> 6.
> > log ye socheiNge "tanhaa" tiri ghazleiN sun kar
> > "fikr-e-duniyaa ke khayaalaat ise aate kyoN haiN?"
>
> maqt'a achchaa hai; "tiri GhazleN" kii jagah "tiri nazmeN"
> kah leejiye. pehle misr'e ke liye ek 'suggestion' hai:
>
> log socheNge, ai "tanhaa", terii nazmeN paRh kar
>
jo Raj sahib ne suggest kiya hai, vo maqta to hameiN aur bhi behtariin
lagaa :)
>
> > I would really appreciate comments and suggestions to help me improve.
>
> Hope these help. Remember: you asked for them! :) LOL So,
> please excuse any transgressions of politeness and propriety
> on my part.
Yes sir, I did ask for them, and I can assure you, I am glad that I
did, otherwise, I wouldn't get these wonderfully imformative comments.
aapka bahut bahut shukriya.
Warm Regards
Amit Malhotra
>
> Regards,
> UVR.
Amit Malhotra
Aadab Sarwar sahib,
aapne masroofiyat ke baavjood vaqt nikaal kar hamari takhliiq par
kuchh baateiN likhi, uske liye ham aapke bahut shukrguzaar haiN.
> Hasb.e.va'da Haazir hooN. aap kee Ghazal.e.musalsal (yaa nazm) kaa
> apnaa aahaNg aur zer.o.bum (rhythm) haiN jin ko badalne kee zaroorat
> naheeN hai. yeh taKhleeq aap ke dilee karb aur dard kee aa'eena.daar
> hai aur her saaHib.e.dil aur Hissaass shaKhs aaj kal ke Haalaat ke
> tanaazur meiN yehee kuChh sochtaa hai. aik kaamyaab taKhleeq per
> mubaarak.baad qubool kareN!
>
shukriya Sarwar sahib.
> aik aadh Ghair.ahem see baat likh rahaa hooN. dekh leN. agar dil na
> jame to ko'ee muzaa'iqa naheeN!
>
janaab koi bhi baat Ghair-ahem nahin ho saktii! aapne jo bhi islaah
dii hai, us par ham pooraa man lagaa kar soch raheiN haiN, aur lage
haath bahut kuchh siikh bhi raheiN haiN, is ke liye ek baar phir aapka
shukriya.
> yeh chaaroN ash'aar apnee safaa'ee aur saadgee meiN Khoob haiN aur in
> meiN kisee tarmeem yaa izaafe kee ko'ee Haajat naheeN hai. merHabaa!
>
> > jis taraf dekhouN maiN, insaan nazar aate haiN to,
> > Khuun-e-insaan ye insaan bahaate kyoN haiN?
>
> mujh ko pehlaa misra zaraa kamzor lagaa. ho saktaa ho k yeh meree
> samajh kaa hee qusoor ho. ba.her Haal meree raa'e hai k iss ko yooN
> kar deN taa.k iss meiN asar aur zor baRh jaaye aur doosre misre se iss
> kaa rabt vaazeh aur mazboot ho jaaye:
>
> saare insaanoN meiN gar Khoon kaa ik rishta hai
> Khoon.e.insaan-----------------
>
aap donoN (Raj sahib aur aap) saahib-e-ilm haiN, agar aap donoN ko
pahle misre mein kamzori lag rahi hai, to baat ghalat to nahin ho
saktii.. aapkii islaah par puraa Ghaur kiya hai. Shukriya.
> > jaag aur soch bhi hastii ko banaane vaale,
> > teri duniyaa ko tire bande jalaate kyoN haiN?
>
> :jaag: se ma'loom hotaa hai jaise :ooper vaalaa: so rahaa hai aur
> :soch: kaa amal uss se vaabasta naheeN hai kyoN.k voh to :aql.e.kul:
> hai aur :soch: ke saath saHeeH aur Ghalat faisile kaa imkaan lagaa
> huaa hai. yooN kaheN?
>
> too hee batlaa mujhe duniyaa ko banaane vaale
> teree ---------------------
>
yahaaN par bhi pahle misre ko chust banaane ka iraadaa hai, hameiN
aapka bataayaa hua misra bahut pasand aayaa... iraadaa upar waale se
poochhne ka nahiiN tha, use sochne ke liye majboor karne ka thaa,
magar aapkii baat apni jagah bilkul sahi hai ke uupar vala to
"aql-e-kul" hai...
> > log ye socheiNge "tanhaa" tiri ghazleiN sun kar
> > "fikr-e-duniyaa ke khayaalaat ise aate kyoN haiN?"
>
> pehle misre meiN alfaaz ulajh gaye haiN. iss ko ta'qeed.e.lafzee kehte
> haiN. zaraa se ulaT.pher se yeh naqs door ho jaaye gaa. doosre meiN
> :fikr: aur :Khayaal: taqreeban ham.ma'nee haiN. yooN sochiye?
>
> log yeh socheN ge GhazleN tiree sun kar :tanhaa:
> aise gambheer Khayaalat------------
>
> maiN ne :gambhee: bar.sar.e.raahe likh diyaa hai. aap aur kuChh keh
> leN.
>
Sarwar sahib, I have to be honest that I was very happy to see your
comments on my nazm (i think i will just call it nazm as thats the
right word to use). I really appreciate you taking the time to write
these comments as well. Please don't foget to post your comments on
my next creation as well.
Warm and respectful regards,
Amit Malhotra
> Khaadim
>
> Sarwar Raz :Sarwar:
Amit Malhotra
Aadab Yasho sahib,
aapke ta'asuraat mile, unke liye bahut shukriya.
aapne jo savaal/comment likha tha "talvaar uThaane" par, vo bilkul
jaaiz hai. mushkil to yahi hai ki duniya ko jo samjhaa sakte haiN, vo
bhi ulTaa unheiN uksaate haiN, hamara isharaa mazhab ke rakhvaaloN aur
siyaasat ke rakhvaaloN ki taraf hai.
once again, thank you for your comments aur hamari agli ghazal ka
intezaar lambaa ho saktaa hai kyoN ki, pahli baat to ham Urdu shaayari
ke student haiN, aap hi ki tarah, isliye kuchh bhi likhne mein bahut
der lag jaati hai, aur doosri baat ye ki aajkal vaqt ki itni kami hai
kuchh puuchhiye mat! bas ummiid hi kar saktaa huuN ki thoRa vaqt
milega aur kuchh na kuchh pesh karne ka mauqaa bhi..
Best Regards,
Amit Malhotra
> Amit saahab, aadaab!
>
> Ghazal sunaane ke liye shukriyaa! is ke kuchh asha'r aGjh#3 ke
> dauraan dekhne ko mile the---us vaqt bhee bohat achchhe lage the.---
>
> >
Raj Kumar
>
> If I am guilty of anything here, it is of naivete, and not of
> wantonly flouting the restrictions of this behr. I was under
> the impression that "braahman", which is the 'right and propah'
> pronunciation of this word in Hindi and Sanskrit, is also one
> of the accepted ways of pronouncing this word in Urdu. This
> impression, you will be astonished to know, was based on the
> word of none other than John T. Platts, (the famous lexico-
> grapher), whose dictionary lists "braahman" as *the* correct
> pronunciation of the word! Not only that, it even states that
> 'biraahman' is the "vulg." (vulgar) form of this word. What's
> more, Platts doesn't even list "baraahman" in his dictionary.
>
> My (mis)impression was further strengthened by the entry for
> "baraahimah" in Ferozesons' Urdu-English dictionary [which I
> found stacked in the local branch of the county library]. The
> word is listed as the plural of "brahman" (written in Urdu,
> and transliterated into English).
>
> My credibility on ALUP is rather close to zero these days, but
> fortunately for me, these two tomes are easily available else-
> where (Platts' is even online) for ready reference by all.
lisaan-ul-eijaaz, jiddat-taraaz, Urdu-navaaz janaab-e-Ravindra Saahib:
maiN, kisi had tak, sharm-saar hooN k aap ko meri vajah se itna kashT
uThaana paRaa. maiN, aap ke 'spellings' se ba-Khoobi samajh gayaa tha
k aap is lafz ka kaun sa talaffuz barat rahe haiN magar jaa-e-afsos to
yeh hai k Urdu vaaloN ne is talaffuz ko kabhi bhi naheeN apnaaya.
yahaaN tak k Iqbaal ne aek jagah lafz 'preet' ko bhi 'pareet' ke taur
par barta hai --- something I would dread to do!
isi zimn meiN, aap ne sunaa hi hoga k, Raamaayan ke aek 'scene' meiN,
Mahaaraaj Dashrath farmaate haiN k "praan jaayeN par vachan na
jaa'ii". I won't be surprised if, one day, some Urdu poet comes out
saying 'paraan' instead of 'praan'! :-((
magar ab is "baraahman" ka kyaa kiyaa jaaye? yeh lafz to Urdu zabaan
ki rag rag meiN samaa chukaa hai --- ab ise do-baarah "braahman"
banaana kaar-e-aasaaN naheeN hai!
>
> > By way of illustration, I'll quote the following beautiful she'r for
> > your information:
> >
> > baraahman, naala-e-naaqoos masjid tak bhi pahuNchaa de
> > ajab kyaa gar mu'azzin Kh(w)aab se be-daar ho jaaye!!!
>
> Wow. Great! I had also previously come across couplets like:
>
> 1. dekhiye paate haiN ushshaaq butoN se kyaa faiz
> ik baraahman ne kahaa hai k yeh saal achchhaa hai (Ghalib)
>
> 2. sach kah dooN ai baraahman gar tuu buraa na maane
> tere sanam_kadoN ke but ho gaye puraane (Iqbal)
Ravindra Saahib, mere paas, taNgi-e-zehn ke baa-vujood, koi
das-paNdrah aisi hi misaaleN maujood theeN jinheN maiN, aasaani se,
aap ki Khidmat-e-aaliya meiN pesh kar sakta tha magar maiN ne socha k
kayooN na aek aisi misaal pesh karooN jo (Ghaaliban) aap ke liye nayee
ho aur, saath hi saath, nudrat-e-Khayaal ki haamil bhi ho!
I am glad, you "wowed" over it! :-))
> However, having no reason to discredit either Platts+Ferozesons'
> or Ghalib+Iqbal, I simply came to the naive conclusion that BOTH
> pronunciations were equally valid in Urdu. This was why I wrote
> "shaiKh-o-braahman". You do agree, don't you, Raj saahib, that
> inasmuch as this conclusion goes, there is no error of behr in
> my misra?
I FULLY agree with you that, if (and only if) we could adopt the
original Hindi-Sanskrit pronunciation of this word, then your misra
would be 'solah-aanne' in meter! is baat meiN to Khaak-saar ko ratti
bhar bhi saNdeh naheeN hai!!!
>
> Anyway, today, after reading your post, I rushed back to the
> library and picked up a couple of Persian-English dictionaries
> (one of which was Steingass'). To my astonishment, "barahman"
> was the ONLY version of the word mentioned therein! :(
>
> So, the Urdu dictionaries are apparently in error: "braahman"
> is patently incorrect! It's not even an acceptable variant!
>
is ka matlab to yeh huaa k Urdu vaaloN ne is lafz ka talaffuz vuhi
apnaaya hai jo k Faarsi vaaloN ne tai kiyaa tha --- qat'a-e-nazar is
se k yeh lafz to Khaalis Hindostaan ki sar-zameen ka hai aur is ka
maqaami talaffuz "braahman" hai! ab aap hi bataayeN k ham kyaa kaheN
Urdu vaaloN ki is zehniyat par --- bas yihi k, ba-qaul-e-Haali,
"hai adab shart, muNh na khulvaayeN"!
> But how am I, a mere student of Urdu, expected to know that? :(
are miyaaN, is samassaya ka to sirf aek hi upaaye hai --- aur voh yeh
k aap (jahaaN tak mumkin ho) aise logoN ki sohbat rakkheN jo k, is
mu'aamile meiN, "aihl-e-gyaan-dhyaan" hoN! yaqeen jaaniye, insaan ki
behboodi-o-behtari ke liye "saNt-samaagam aur Hari-kathaa" ke ilaava
aur koi chaara naheeN hai!!! :-))
Khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar
Raj Kumar
>
>
> >
> > aur idhar aap haiN k saari Ghazal meiN kul teen adad izaafateN barti
> > haiN, jin meiN se poori do izaafateN is qabeel ki haiN. Amit Saahib,
> > yeh koi "aaTe meiN namak" vaali baat naheeN hai, balke yeh to "doodh
> > meiN paani" vaali baat hai!!! :LOL
>
> vaise aapka doodh vaala kaun hai bhai jo itna paani daaltaa hai?
Amit Sahib:
aap ka yeh 'comment' paRh kar mazaa aa gayaa! phir bhi socha k,
kam-az-kam, itna to vaazeh karta chalooN k, yahaaN par, mera ishaara
"doodh meiN paani ki milaavaT" se naheeN tha balke is baat se tha k,
qudrati taur par hi, doodh meiN bahuuuuuut saara paani hota hai ---
koi 96%, I am told --- jab-k aaTe meiN namak bahuuuuuut kam hota hai!
> but its true that i used only three of them and two of them were
> against the rule! I have to say though, "raah-e-imaan" had a certain
> flow to it for me, but when I was using "Khuun-e-insaan" then i
> thought about it and I did consider it for a long time whether I
> should say that or should i say: "Khuun insaan ka" this way, i would
> have avoided the use of that izaafat.
I fully agree with your observations on these two izaafats. agar sauti
(= acoustical) eitebaar se dekhaa jaaye to "raah-e-iimaan" ki tarkeeb
buree naheeN lagti. albatta, "Khoon-e-insaan" ki tarkeeb kaanoN ko
zaraa naheeN bhaati; meri raaye meiN, aap is ko to badal hi deejiye!
bas, yihi do-aek baateN kehni theeN. aur chaliye, lage haathoN, aek
baar phir aap ko is "shaan-daar taKhleeq" par mubaarak-baad kahe dete
haiN!!! :-))
Khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar