Theodosian Code Translation

[Poetic Justice]

This Code is often quoted in the same-sex marriage debate with the
latter English translation often used.

Are these early Christians actually outlawing 'Homosexual Marriages' or
Homosexuality itself?

I don't Latin but I don't see the word "matrimonium" in the original
anywhere?

Also is 'mater' (mother) the root word (or whatever it is called in
Latin) for 'matrimonium'?

I dislike any side in a debate using misinformation and the 'pro' side
uses this to imply that the Romans had State sanctioned same-sex
marriages which I know is false.
Except for Nero and Elagababus:-) if the ancient writers are to be
believed.
Regards, Walter


(Theodosian Code 9.7.3)
Impp. Constantius et Constans aa. ad populum.
Cum vir nubit in feminam, femina viros proiectura quid cupiat, ubi
sexus perdidit locum, ubi scelus est id, quod non proficit scire, ubi
venus mutatur in alteram formam, ubi amor quaeritur nec videtur, iubemus
insurgere leges, armari iura gladio ultore, ut exquisitis poenis
subdantur infames, qui sunt vel qui futuri sunt rei. Dat. prid. non.
dec. Mediolano, proposita Romae XVII kal. ianuar. Constantio III et
Constante II aa. conss. (342 dec. 4).
-------------------------------------------
When a man marries and is about to offer himself to men in womanly
fashion [quum vir nubit in feminam viris porrecturam], what does he
wish, when sex has lost all its significance; when the crime is one
which it is not profitable to know; when Venus is changed to another
form; when love is sought and not found? We order the statutes to arise,
the laws to be armed with an avenging sword, that those infamous persons
who are now, or who hereafter may be, guilty may be subjected to
exquisite punishment. (Theodosian Code 9.7.3)

[Evertjan.]

Poetic Justice wrote on 13 mei 2013 in alt.language.latin:

> Also is 'mater' (mother) the root word (or whatever it is called in
> Latin) for 'matrimonium'?

patrimonium = [paternal] inheritance

patri = of the father
-monia, -monium = state, condition, action

<http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/138896>
<http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?
doc=patrimonium&fromdoc=Perseus:text:1999.04.0060>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_finance>

[so this should be:
matrimonium = maternal inheritance
but alas, it is more:]

matrimonium = "the married state of a woman"

"in matrimonium ducere"
Only pertained to the wife,
who IS being lead into marriage TO the man.
[ducere = lead, bring someone, cf dux]

matri- = of the mother
-monia, -monium = state, condition, action

<http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/115054>
<http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?
doc=matrimonium&fromdoc=Perseus:text:1999.04.0060>

"there are two Latin forms [like] alimonia & alimonium,
the former being pre-[..]classical."
<http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/121864?>

--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

[Ed Cryer]

I like your "exquisite punishment". It sounds very Catholic Inquisition
to me.
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. In fact those who do ..... I'll
come in again.
:-)

The wording of the first part seems designed to keep defence lawyers in
work for centuries with loop-holes of all sorts.
What does it mean?
Obviously something to do with male homosexuality. But whether it's
dealing with all such sex relations or just homosexual marriage, is
beyond me.

Here's a relevant discussion of the translation;
http://tinyurl.com/dy3jh28

Ed