Pan-Slavic language (Was: Re: Pro-verbs (not 'Proverbs')?)
Radovan Garabik
this is already off-topic in that group.
English text follows
Uncle Davey <no...@jose.com> wrote:
: "Radovan Garabik" <sp...@melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk> wrote in message
: news:s4i39a...@127.0.0.1...
:>
:>
:> "pere" jest przynajmien prostsze do wymowienia (kwestia w tym czy chces
:> zachowac pelnoglos (ÐÏÌÎÏÇÌÁÓÉÅ), jak w wschodnioslowianskich jezykach)
: Dazhe russki ne primenyaet ere oro vezde. Trebovatj, na primer.
конечно :-)
: Russki imeet razny registr na slovie 'mladyj' chem na slovie 'molodoj', no
: takikh tonkosti netu v boljshinstvie slavjanskikh jezykov i ja ikh ne
: osobenno khochu v etom, Tak kak raznica mezhdu korotkimi i dolgimi
: primiotnikami, reguly padezhey posle cyfrow, itd.
я бы хотел применить все регулы которые общие для всех (может быть с
исключением булгарского) славянских языков - и сделать что-нибудь вроде
славянской Интерлингви.
BTW у тебя нет проблем с utf-8 кодировкой? Есть ли, то ничего не говори
(так как наверно не сможешь прочитать этот вопрос:-))
:> : i tam gdzie rosyski ma 'oro, olo' bedzie 're, le'. "krelj, mleko,
:> : vrena, mledyy", itp.
:>
:> dlaczego -re-? w praslowianskim jezyku byl "korljØ" i grupa -or-
:> zmienila sie na -ra- w zachodnioslowianskich i poludniowoslowianskich
:> jezykach (-ro- lub -ro- w polskim), i na -oro- -aro- w
:> wschodnioslowianskich.
: Masz swieta racje, ze praslowianskij mial tak i ze nowoczesne jezyki
: slowianskie tak maja.
: Nie mam zadnych argumentow, oprocz tego, ze nie probuje zrekonstruowac
: prajezyk. To byl by inny projekt. Mam taki project "Lish" lub "Lisx" ktory
: zajmuje sie tym.
(switching to English since I'd like more people to participate,
and also because I am already pushing my Polish to its limits :-))
I would like to try to create a language that has the minimal
distance (whatever is your definiton for linguistic distance) from
other slavic languages, weighted by number of speakers. Something like
slavic Interlingua. (there could be another project, trying to create
a slavic artlang, what would slavic look like if it did not split
into different languages - think of it as of "Latino moderne" for
slavic languages - but I'll probably never get to it.)
:> Takze -el- "melko" zmienilo sie w -le- w zachodnioslowianskich i
:> poludniowoslowianskich, i w -olo- w wschodnioslowianskich.
:> Dlatego proponowalbym -ra- ("kral", "vrana") i -el- ("mleko")
:> Nie wiem jak bylo "mlody mlady ÍÏÌÏÄÏÊ" w praslowianskim, no chyba
:> nie posiadalo grupy "-el", jak pokazuja dzisiajsie warianty w
:> slowianskich jezykach). Proponowalym "mlad-" (czy wie ktos jak
:> to jest w poludniowoslowianskich jezykach?)
: Tak samo, mlad, vlad and dangerous to know....
: Ja pomysle o tej propozycje. Moze masz racje.
: Potrzebujemy troche pomocy juz w tej kwestii.
: Oto kilka slow z grupa o/e/a plus l/r.
: Potrzebuje ich rownowartosc we wszystkich slowianskich jezykow.
: PL: Mlody
: RU: Molodoy, but Mlady also exists (archaic)
: BY: maladyj
: CZ: mlady
mladý, mladej in colloquial Czech
: SK:?
mladý
: UA:?
: SI?
: SHR?
: MK?
: BG?
: wrona, vorona, varona, vrana ? ? ? ? ? ?
CZ: vrána, SK: vrana
: mleko, moloko, malako, mleko? ? ? ? ? ? ?
CZ mléko, colloquial" mlíko
SK mlieko, some dialects have mlíko or mléko
: krowa, korova, karova, krava, ? ? ? krava ? ?
SK krava
: zloty, zolotoy (also zlatyj - archaic), zalatyj, zlaty, ? ? ? ? ? ?
SK zlatý
: przechod, perekhod, perakhod, ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
CZ přechod, SK prechod
: I thought re and le would be good as they would give the language a unique
: flavour, without tending too much to either a west, south or east bias.
but that would be more like creating another branch of slavic languages,
not a common one (though this depends on your desired goal...)
: If you want to make the language with me in partnership, then I will
: compromise on that point and go for ra and le as you prefer, and keep
: 'pere-' for 'across', freeing up 'pre-' for an -issimo style prefix, as in
actually, I do not stick to pere- that much ...
: 'prekrasny, przepiekny'. Is this used in Czech Slovak?
yes, CZ překrásný, SK prekrásny
: Also we can adjust the member languages in the voting panel if we can't get
: hold of expertise in any of them, and give more votes to a similar language
: instead.
it is absolutely necessary to get someone familiar with south slavic
languages, since I have zero knowledge about them
: Now to grammar. What do you say to a -ti infinitive? All verbs in the -ati
I have already been thinking a bit about it
polish has -ć, slovak -ť (or -t,-ć,-c in some dialects,
czech -t or (rare, archaic) -ti, russian -ть or rare -ти, south slavic
I guess has -ti (?), so -ti seems a reasonable choice
: group, present tense conjugation aju, ajesx, ajet, ajem, ajete, ajut.?
I thought about -m, -š, -t, -me (or -mi), -te, -at (or -jat,-ijat,-jut)
(e.g. infinitive delati, ja delam, ti delaš, on delat, mi delame,
vi delate, oni delajut) but I have to confess your suggestion
has some merits
: Past tense replace j with l, and future replace j with cx (as in Serbo
: Croat). Downplay the role of aspects, but still have this sort of structure:
: delati - to make
: peredelati - to re-do
: peredelivati - to keep on re-doing.
: (ja) to peredelacxu - I'll do it over,
I would say (ja) to peredela(je)m, all my instincts
are against future time with p(e)re- prefix :-)
: etc.
: Or alternatively, the whole of Esperanto pronouns, case system, table words
: and verbal endings could be kept and only change the roots of the remaining
: words to Slavic, giving something like this: 'Mi peredelos tion.'
I once saw a sample of Neposlava, it looked exactly like this...
but I was unable to find a description of Neposlava, maybe this already
existed....
: Which do you think is better?
: Let's throw it open to the floor
: Nehxaj prosajem vsxe(hx) or Ni prosu cxiujn?
definitely the former
czesc
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik |
| __..--^^^--..__ garabik @ fmph . uniba . sk |
-----------------------------------------------------------
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Uncle Davey
> I deleted alt.languages.polish from Followup-To, since
> this is already off-topic in that group.
>
> English text follows
>
> Uncle Davey <no...@jose.com> wrote:
>
> : "Radovan Garabik" <sp...@melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk> wrote in message
> : news:s4i39a...@127.0.0.1...
> :>
>
> :>
> :> "pere" jest przynajmien prostsze do wymowienia (kwestia w tym czy
chces
jezykach)
>
> : Dazhe russki ne primenyaet ere oro vezde. Trebovatj, na primer.
>
> конечно :-)
>
> : Russki imeet razny registr na slovie 'mladyj' chem na slovie 'molodoj',
no
> : takikh tonkosti netu v boljshinstvie slavjanskikh jezykov i ja ikh ne
> : osobenno khochu v etom, Tak kak raznica mezhdu korotkimi i dolgimi
> : primiotnikami, reguly padezhey posle cyfrow, itd.
>
> я бы хотел применить все регулы которые общие для всех (может быть с
> исключением булгарского) славянских языков - и сделать что-нибудь вроде
> славянской Интерлингви.
> BTW у тебя нет проблем с utf-8 кодировкой? Есть ли, то ничего не говори
> (так как наверно не сможешь прочитать этот вопрос:-))
Я могу читать без проблем. Дело в том, что я ужасно медленно пишу на русской
клавиатуре, и не всегда получается выслать.
Let's see if that works.
>
> :> : i tam gdzie rosyski ma 'oro, olo' bedzie 're, le'. "krelj, mleko,
> :> : vrena, mledyy", itp.
> :>
> :> dlaczego -re-? w praslowianskim jezyku byl "korljO" i grupa -or-
> :> zmienila sie na -ra- w zachodnioslowianskich i poludniowoslowianskich
> :> jezykach (-ro- lub -ro- w polskim), i na -oro- -aro- w
> :> wschodnioslowianskich.
>
> : Masz swieta racje, ze praslowianskij mial tak i ze nowoczesne jezyki
> : slowianskie tak maja.
>
> : Nie mam zadnych argumentow, oprocz tego, ze nie probuje zrekonstruowac
> : prajezyk. To byl by inny projekt. Mam taki project "Lish" lub "Lisx"
ktory
> : zajmuje sie tym.
>
> (switching to English since I'd like more people to participate,
> and also because I am already pushing my Polish to its limits :-))
>
Yeah, me too.
> I would like to try to create a language that has the minimal
> distance (whatever is your definiton for linguistic distance) from
> other slavic languages, weighted by number of speakers. Something like
> slavic Interlingua. (there could be another project, trying to create
> a slavic artlang, what would slavic look like if it did not split
> into different languages - think of it as of "Latino moderne" for
> slavic languages - but I'll probably never get to it.)
>
Well, we can collaborate if you like the idea.
> :> Takze -el- "melko" zmienilo sie w -le- w zachodnioslowianskich i
> :> poludniowoslowianskich, i w -olo- w wschodnioslowianskich.
> :> Dlatego proponowalbym -ra- ("kral", "vrana") i -el- ("mleko")
> :> Nie wiem jak bylo "mlody mlady IIIIAIE" w praslowianskim, no chyba
> :> nie posiadalo grupy "-el", jak pokazuja dzisiajsie warianty w
> :> slowianskich jezykach). Proponowalym "mlad-" (czy wie ktos jak
> :> to jest w poludniowoslowianskich jezykach?)
>
> : Tak samo, mlad, vlad and dangerous to know....
>
> : Ja pomysle o tej propozycje. Moze masz racje.
> : Potrzebujemy troche pomocy juz w tej kwestii.
>
> : Oto kilka slow z grupa o/e/a plus l/r.
> : Potrzebuje ich rownowartosc we wszystkich slowianskich jezykow.
>
> : PL: Mlody
> : RU: Molodoy, but Mlady also exists (archaic)
> : BY: maladyj
> : CZ: mlady
> mlady, mladej in colloquial Czech
I don't have the length mark unless I switch to the Spanish keyboard.
See if this works: mlady.
>
> : SK:?
> mlady
>
> : UA:?
> : SI?
> : SHR?
> : MK?
> : BG?
>
>
> : wrona, vorona, varona, vrana ? ? ? ? ? ?
> CZ: vrana, SK: vrana
>
> : mleko, moloko, malako, mleko? ? ? ? ? ? ?
> CZ mleko, colloquial" mliko
> SK mlieko, some dialects have mliko or mleko
>
> : krowa, korova, karova, krava, ? ? ? krava ? ?
> SK krava
>
> : zloty, zolotoy (also zlatyj - archaic), zalatyj, zlaty, ? ? ? ? ? ?
> SK zlaty
>
> : przechod, perekhod, perakhod, ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
> CZ prechod, SK prechod
>
> : I thought re and le would be good as they would give the language a
unique
> : flavour, without tending too much to either a west, south or east bias.
>
> but that would be more like creating another branch of slavic languages,
> not a common one (though this depends on your desired goal...)
>
Well, you are starting to persuade me with the 'ra', 'le' idea.
> : If you want to make the language with me in partnership, then I will
> : compromise on that point and go for ra and le as you prefer, and keep
> : 'pere-' for 'across', freeing up 'pre-' for an -issimo style prefix, as
in
>
> actually, I do not stick to pere- that much ...
>
> : 'prekrasny, przepiekny'. Is this used in Czech Slovak?
>
> yes, CZ prekrasny, SK prekrasny
>
That should definitely be in then.
> : Also we can adjust the member languages in the voting panel if we can't
get
> : hold of expertise in any of them, and give more votes to a similar
language
> : instead.
>
> it is absolutely necessary to get someone familiar with south slavic
> languages, since I have zero knowledge about them
>
Anyone?
> : Now to grammar. What do you say to a -ti infinitive? All verbs in
the -ati
>
> I have already been thinking a bit about it
> polish has -c, slovak -t (or -t,-c,-c in some dialects,
> czech -t or (rare, archaic) -ti, russian -ть or rare -ти, south slavic
> I guess has -ti (?), so -ti seems a reasonable choice
>
It was, by all accounts, the Protoslavic infinitive.
> : group, present tense conjugation aju, ajesx, ajet, ajem, ajete, ajut.?
>
> I thought about -m, -s, -t, -me (or -mi), -te, -at (or -jat,-ijat,-jut)
> (e.g. infinitive delati, ja delam, ti delas, on delat, mi delame,
> vi delate, oni delajut) but I have to confess your suggestion
> has some merits.
I was gonna leave letters with haczeks off, i must admit. They make the
whole thing harder for people who are not unicode masters like yourself.
>
> : Past tense replace j with l, and future replace j with cx (as in Serbo
> : Croat). Downplay the role of aspects, but still have this sort of
structure:
> : delati - to make
> : peredelati - to re-do
> : peredelivati - to keep on re-doing.
> : (ja) to peredelacxu - I'll do it over,
>
> I would say (ja) to peredela(je)m, all my instincts
> are against future time with p(e)re- prefix :-)
>
> : etc.
>
> : Or alternatively, the whole of Esperanto pronouns, case system, table
words
> : and verbal endings could be kept and only change the roots of the
remaining
> : words to Slavic, giving something like this: 'Mi peredelos tion.'
>
> I once saw a sample of Neposlava, it looked exactly like this...
> but I was unable to find a description of Neposlava, maybe this already
> existed....
>
> : Which do you think is better?
>
> : Let's throw it open to the floor
>
> : Nehxaj prosajem vsxe(hx) or Ni prosu cxiujn?
>
> definitely the former
>
> czesc
Let's go forward on that basis, then.
Back Monday.
Uncle Davey
Radovan Garabik
: "Radovan Garabik" <sp...@melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk> wrote in message
: news:9a579a...@127.0.0.1...
:> я бы хотел применить все регулы которые общие для всех (может быть с
:> исключением булгарского) славянских языков - и сделать что-нибудь вроде
:> славянской Интерлингви.
:> BTW у тебя нет проблем с utf-8 кодировкой? Есть ли, то ничего не говори
:> (так как наверно не сможешь прочитать этот вопрос:-))
:Я могу читать без проблем. Дело в том, что я ужасно медленно пишу на
:русской клавиатуре, и не всегда получается выслать.
Я тоже думаю что писать на русской клавиатуре с раскладкой ЙЦУКЕНГ -
просто кошмар.
Я лично пишу на раскладке ЯВЕРТЫ
посмотри на http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/PaulGor/kbd_eng.htm
для MS windows
или
http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/debian-utf8/download/xkb/ru_yawerty
для Xfree86
: Let's see if that works.
It _almost_ did.
Your article was in KOI8-R encoding, but without correct headers, so
most news clients would be unable to display it correctly.
And moreover, when you are using KOI8-r you lose the ability to
use other characters (like a with acute accent below).
If you are using Outlook, try to find some option that says
about UTF-8 encoding for outgoing posts (I do not use Outlook and
I do not remember exactly where it is)
: Yeah, me too.
:> I would like to try to create a language that has the minimal
:> distance (whatever is your definiton for linguistic distance) from
:> other slavic languages, weighted by number of speakers. Something like
:> slavic Interlingua. (there could be another project, trying to create
:> a slavic artlang, what would slavic look like if it did not split
:> into different languages - think of it as of "Latino moderne" for
:> slavic languages - but I'll probably never get to it.)
:>
: Well, we can collaborate if you like the idea.
I could even made a www page with some cgi scripts to faciliate
contributing (but not just now)
:> : CZ: mlady
:> mlady, mladej in colloquial Czech
: I don't have the length mark unless I switch to the Spanish keyboard.
: See if this works: mlady.
it does not since "á" is not in KOI8-R encoding
: unique
:> : flavour, without tending too much to either a west, south or east bias.
:>
:> but that would be more like creating another branch of slavic languages,
:> not a common one (though this depends on your desired goal...)
:>
: Well, you are starting to persuade me with the 'ra', 'le' idea.
nice :-)
:> : Now to grammar. What do you say to a -ti infinitive? All verbs in
: the -ati
:>
:> I have already been thinking a bit about it
:> polish has -c, slovak -t (or -t,-c,-c in some dialects,
:> czech -t or (rare, archaic) -ti, russian -ÔØ or rare -ÔÉ, south slavic
:> I guess has -ti (?), so -ti seems a reasonable choice
:>
: It was, by all accounts, the Protoslavic infinitive.
actually, it was -tь where "ь" is soft yer.
:> : group, present tense conjugation aju, ajesx, ajet, ajem, ajete, ajut.?
:>
:> I thought about -m, -s, -t, -me (or -mi), -te, -at (or -jat,-ijat,-jut)
:> (e.g. infinitive delati, ja delam, ti delas, on delat, mi delame,
:> vi delate, oni delajut) but I have to confess your suggestion
:> has some merits.
: I was gonna leave letters with haczeks off, i must admit. They make the
: whole thing harder for people who are not unicode masters like yourself.
but you should not let yourself be limited by inefficiencies of
computers, after all, computers are here to serve us, not the
opposite :-)
And if you limit yourself to š,č,ž, these letters are used in
several different encoding, therefore quite available (but unfortunately
neither in ISO-8859-1 nor ISO-8859-15), and you can use easy
and uniform transliteration (e.g sz, cz, zz) if necessary.
Some my random thoughts:
protoslavic /g/ has changed into /h/ in cz,sk,uk,be;
and remained /g/ in ru,pl, and south slavic languages.
Given this, I propose to use /g/
We have these vowels: a e i o u
there is no "y" (russian or polish)
Vowels are short, there is no distinction in length.
Consonants are not palatalized.
There are two possibilities how to write /x/:
either "h" (as in sl,hr) or "ch" as in cz,sk,pl,be(lacinka).
Using "ch" frees the character "h" for use in foreign
words, but violates rather desirable attempt to have one character for
one phoneme.
We could use for example letter "x", but that is rather un-slavic.
This language (what would be the name?) can be written in
both latin and cyrillic script, with bijective mapping between them
(almost as in serbocroatian). Alphabet could look more or less like
this:
abcčdefghijklmnoprsštuvzž
(there could be "ch" instead of "h")
cyrillic variant (not properly sorted):
абцчдефгхијклмнопрсштувзж
(there could be "й" instead of "ј", maybe even "і" instead of "и")
Personal pronouns:
ja,ti,on/ona/ono,mi,vi,oni
(again leaving bulgarian behind :-))
Uncle Davey
Right, I tried it. Tools/Options/Send /International settings/UTF-8/OK.
Now let me try some funky stuff.
Я иду сейчас кушать гамбургер в Макдональде на Ярославсом Шоссе.
?Que intences a comer para tu desayuno?
Mam rad. Jak se mate?
Det ar mycket bra.
Osakra fordringar. Malmo.
>
> : Yeah, me too.
>
> :> I would like to try to create a language that has the minimal
> :> distance (whatever is your definiton for linguistic distance) from
> :> other slavic languages, weighted by number of speakers. Something like
> :> slavic Interlingua. (there could be another project, trying to create
> :> a slavic artlang, what would slavic look like if it did not split
> :> into different languages - think of it as of "Latino moderne" for
> :> slavic languages - but I'll probably never get to it.)
> :>
> : Well, we can collaborate if you like the idea.
>
> I could even made a www page with some cgi scripts to faciliate
> contributing (but not just now)
Sounds really cool.
You've got some really good IT skills. I need to learn more, I really do.
> :> : CZ: mlady
> :> mlady, mladej in colloquial Czech
>
> : I don't have the length mark unless I switch to the Spanish keyboard.
>
> : See if this works: mlady.
>
> it does not since "a" is not in KOI8-R encoding
O mlady, o mlada, life goes on.
See if this works.
>
> : unique
> :> : flavour, without tending too much to either a west, south or east
bias.
> :>
> :> but that would be more like creating another branch of slavic
languages,
> :> not a common one (though this depends on your desired goal...)
> :>
> : Well, you are starting to persuade me with the 'ra', 'le' idea.
>
> nice :-)
>
Hrasxo.
>
> :> : Now to grammar. What do you say to a -ti infinitive? All verbs in
> : the -ati
> :>
> :> I have already been thinking a bit about it
> :> polish has -c, slovak -t (or -t,-c,-c in some dialects,
> :> czech -t or (rare, archaic) -ti, russian -OO or rare -OE, south slavic
> :> I guess has -ti (?), so -ti seems a reasonable choice
> :>
>
> : It was, by all accounts, the Protoslavic infinitive.
>
> actually, it was -tь where "ь" is soft yer.
>
But OCS has -ti???
> :> : group, present tense conjugation aju, ajesx, ajet, ajem, ajete,
ajut.?
> :>
> :> I thought about -m, -s, -t, -me (or -mi), -te, -at
(or -jat,-ijat,-jut)
> :> (e.g. infinitive delati, ja delam, ti delas, on delat, mi delame,
> :> vi delate, oni delajut) but I have to confess your suggestion
> :> has some merits.
>
> : I was gonna leave letters with haczeks off, i must admit. They make the
> : whole thing harder for people who are not unicode masters like
yourself.
>
> but you should not let yourself be limited by inefficiencies of
> computers, after all, computers are here to serve us, not the
> opposite :-)
Tell that to my computer.
> And if you limit yourself to s,c,z, these letters are used in
> several different encoding, therefore quite available (but unfortunately
> neither in ISO-8859-1 nor ISO-8859-15), and you can use easy
> and uniform transliteration (e.g sz, cz, zz) if necessary.
You know that Esperanto has hats method, x method and h method, and evryone
just picks the one they like.
Maybe that will work here too.
> Some my random thoughts:
> protoslavic /g/ has changed into /h/ in cz,sk,uk,be;
> and remained /g/ in ru,pl, and south slavic languages.
And Polish. G is good. H is, like, hovno.
> Given this, I propose to use /g/
> We have these vowels: a e i o u
> there is no "y" (russian or polish)
But what to do with the lacking sound? Just have i everywhere?
> Vowels are short, there is no distinction in length.
> Consonants are not palatalized.
What? No softies?
> There are two possibilities how to write /x/:
> either "h" (as in sl,hr) or "ch" as in cz,sk,pl,be(lacinka).
> Using "ch" frees the character "h" for use in foreign
> words, but violates rather desirable attempt to have one character for
> one phoneme.
> We could use for example letter "x", but that is rather un-slavic.
For me H is good for the h sound, and x is good for the letter combinations
cx, sx and zx.
Ks would be the way to write 'indeks', for instance.
> This language (what would be the name?)
Yes indeed, Slaveranto is not really a good name.
How about Central Slavonic?
> can be written in
> both latin and cyrillic script, with bijective mapping between them
> (almost as in serbocroatian). Alphabet could look more or less like
> this:
> abccdefghijklmnoprsstuvzz
> (there could be "ch" instead of "h")
> cyrillic variant (not properly sorted):
> абцчдефгхи?клмнопрсштувзж
Nice one. I agree as long as the variant spellings of cx, sx and zx are
kosher.
> (there could be "й" instead of "?", maybe even "?" instead of "и")
>
> Personal pronouns:
> ja,ti,on/ona/ono,mi,vi,oni
> (again leaving bulgarian behind :-))
>
I think it's good not to differentiate gender in the plural.
Now the big one: how many cases, and how to deal with cases after numbers
and in the case of direct object animates or persons?
Uncle Davey
Uncle Davey
"Uncle Davey" <no...@jose.com> wrote in message
news:3cbd589b$1...@news.ptt.ru...
And very nice it was too.
>
> ?Que intences a comer para tu desayuno?
Oh shit.
>
> Mam rad. Jak se mate?
Oh shit.
>
> Det ar mycket bra.
Oh shit.
>
> Osakra fordringar. Malmo.
>
Oh shit.
Looks like it didn't change anything.
And again Uncle Davey, a crestfallen one this time.
Radovan Garabik
: "Radovan Garabik" <sp...@melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk> wrote in message
:> It _almost_ did.
:> Your article was in KOI8-R encoding, but without correct headers, so
:> most news clients would be unable to display it correctly.
:> And moreover, when you are using KOI8-r you lose the ability to
:> use other characters (like a with acute accent below).
:> If you are using Outlook, try to find some option that says
:> about UTF-8 encoding for outgoing posts (I do not use Outlook and
:> I do not remember exactly where it is)
:>
: Right, I tried it. Tools/Options/Send /International settings/UTF-8/OK.
: Now let me try some funky stuff.
: ñ ÉÄÕ ÓÅÊÞÁÓ ËÕÛÁÔØ ÇÁÍÂÕÒÇÅÒ × íÁËÄÏÎÁÌØÄÅ ÎÁ ñÒÏÓÌÁ×ÓÏÍ ûÏÓÓÅ.
and it does not work :-)
(I did not convert your text into UTF-8 now, so that you can
see how it looks like in non-russian newsreaders)
:>
:> actually, it was -tØ where "Ø" is soft yer.
:>
: But OCS has -ti???
well, I do not know why I thought it was -tь... anyway, it does not
change anything with the fact that infinitive would be -ti
:>
:> but you should not let yourself be limited by inefficiencies of
:> computers, after all, computers are here to serve us, not the
:> opposite :-)
: Tell that to my computer.
If it does not listen, a hammer would always help :-)
:> Given this, I propose to use /g/
:> We have these vowels: a e i o u
:> there is no "y" (russian or polish)
: But what to do with the lacking sound? Just have i everywhere?
yes, like in south slavic languages and Czech and Slovak ("y" is
only in orthography)
:> Vowels are short, there is no distinction in length.
:> Consonants are not palatalized.
: What? No softies?
bad, but are there palatalized consonants common to all slavic
languages?
If you take only intersection of Polish and Czech/Slovak, you are left
with ń/ň, and that is a bit too little to warrant having them in
common slavic language.
: For me H is good for the h sound, and x is good for the letter combinations
what do you mean by "h sound? Esperanto "h" or "ĥ"?
I was thinking about "ĥ".
: cx, sx and zx.
: Ks would be the way to write 'indeks', for instance.
to my knowledge, "x" is used only in CZ and SK, all other languages
use "ks"/"gz" (or cyrillic), so this will use "ks" as well.
:> This language (what would be the name?)
: Yes indeed, Slaveranto is not really a good name.
: How about Central Slavonic?
or we can ressurect Mezhdja (and call it Mežda)
:> can be written in
:> both latin and cyrillic script, with bijective mapping between them
:> (almost as in serbocroatian). Alphabet could look more or less like
:> this:
:> abccdefghijklmnoprsstuvzz
:> (there could be "ch" instead of "h")
: Nice one. I agree as long as the variant spellings of cx, sx and zx are
: kosher.
for transliteration those are OK, but they are not "official".
(as much as esperanto sx, cx... are not official)
:>
:> Personal pronouns:
:> ja,ti,on/ona/ono,mi,vi,oni
:> (again leaving bulgarian behind :-))
:>
: I think it's good not to differentiate gender in the plural.
: Now the big one: how many cases, and how to deal with cases after numbers
5 cases (leaving vocative out, joining together dative/locative,
as it is in serbocroatian).
As for numbers, I feel there should be distinction between 2,3,4 and
>=5, since that seems to be rather common pattern.
2,3,4 could be either in genitive singular or nominative plural
(which is more common?), >=5 in genitive plural
Or we can just make it all simple and plain and use
nominative plural everywhere (there are such alternative forms,
at least in Slovak: dvaja ľudia, traja ľudia, štyria ľudia,
päť ľudí, šesť ľudí.. and the alternative form is piati ľudia,
šiesti ľudia etc... though there is also an alternative form
for 2,3,4 with genitive plural)
: and in the case of direct object animates or persons?
: Uncle Davey
P.S. I just found this page:
http://members.tripod.com/~tuonela/vranske/vranian.html
which has some basic features of a pan-slavic language,
though it seems to be a bit serbocroatian biased
(maybe because the author speaks serbocroatian)
Uncle Davey
> Uncle Davey <no...@jose.com> wrote:
>
> : "Radovan Garabik" <sp...@melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk> wrote in message
>
> :> It _almost_ did.
> :> Your article was in KOI8-R encoding, but without correct headers, so
> :> most news clients would be unable to display it correctly.
> :> And moreover, when you are using KOI8-r you lose the ability to
> :> use other characters (like a with acute accent below).
> :> If you are using Outlook, try to find some option that says
> :> about UTF-8 encoding for outgoing posts (I do not use Outlook and
> :> I do not remember exactly where it is)
> :>
>
> : Right, I tried it. Tools/Options/Send /International settings/UTF-8/OK.
>
> : Now let me try some funky stuff.
>
Блин! Что тогда надо делать?
>
> and it does not work :-)
> (I did not convert your text into UTF-8 now, so that you can
> see how it looks like in non-russian newsreaders)
>
I'll never get the hang of this.
> :>
> :> actually, it was -tO where "O" is soft yer.
> :>
>
> : But OCS has -ti???
>
> well, I do not know why I thought it was -tь... anyway, it does not
> change anything with the fact that infinitive would be -ti
>
> :>
> :> but you should not let yourself be limited by inefficiencies of
> :> computers, after all, computers are here to serve us, not the
> :> opposite :-)
>
> : Tell that to my computer.
>
> If it does not listen, a hammer would always help :-)
>
Cybercide.
> :> Given this, I propose to use /g/
> :> We have these vowels: a e i o u
> :> there is no "y" (russian or polish)
>
> : But what to do with the lacking sound? Just have i everywhere?
>
> yes, like in south slavic languages and Czech and Slovak ("y" is
> only in orthography)
>
> :> Vowels are short, there is no distinction in length.
> :> Consonants are not palatalized.
>
> : What? No softies?
>
> bad, but are there palatalized consonants common to all slavic
> languages?
> If you take only intersection of Polish and Czech/Slovak, you are left
> with n/n, and that is a bit too little to warrant having them in
> common slavic language.
>
Where needed that can be rendered as lj, nj, rj, and the j treated as any
other masculine ending. It will come out soft automatically in the
declensions.
>
> : For me H is good for the h sound, and x is good for the letter
combinations
>
> what do you mean by "h sound? Esperanto "h" or "h"?
> I was thinking about "h".
I don't think there needs to be 2. In Polish there are 2 in theory but they
sound the same in practise. Croatian does very well with H and gives it a
more fricative sound than the English or German 'h'. We don't need
English/German h in a common Slavic language.
> : cx, sx and zx.
> : Ks would be the way to write 'indeks', for instance.
>
> to my knowledge, "x" is used only in CZ and SK, all other languages
> use "ks"/"gz" (or cyrillic), so this will use "ks" as well.
>
'x' is available as an alternative spelling in Polish for some words in
'ks', especially for commercial brands.
> :> This language (what would be the name?)
>
> : Yes indeed, Slaveranto is not really a good name.
>
> : How about Central Slavonic?
>
> or we can ressurect Mezhdja (and call it Mezda)
That wouldn't be fair on that other language.
Need to keep thinking.
> :> can be written in
> :> both latin and cyrillic script, with bijective mapping between them
> :> (almost as in serbocroatian). Alphabet could look more or less like
> :> this:
> :> abccdefghijklmnoprsstuvzz
> :> (there could be "ch" instead of "h")
>
> : Nice one. I agree as long as the variant spellings of cx, sx and zx are
> : kosher.
>
> for transliteration those are OK, but they are not "official".
> (as much as esperanto sx, cx... are not official)
They wouldn't be mistakes, though, either, just an alternative convention
for the net.
> :>
> :> Personal pronouns:
> :> ja,ti,on/ona/ono,mi,vi,oni
> :> (again leaving bulgarian behind :-))
> :>
>
> : I think it's good not to differentiate gender in the plural.
>
> : Now the big one: how many cases, and how to deal with cases after
numbers
>
> 5 cases (leaving vocative out, joining together dative/locative,
> as it is in serbocroatian).
There is a vocative in Serbo Croat.
There is a vocative in the majority of Slavic languages.
We should at least have a quasi vocative, even if it's the same for all
genders, Radovane.
> As for numbers, I feel there should be distinction between 2,3,4 and
> >=5, since that seems to be rather common pattern.
> 2,3,4 could be either in genitive singular or nominative plural
> (which is more common?), >=5 in genitive plural
E.Slav has genitive singular, the rest have nom. pl., if I rightly remember.
> Or we can just make it all simple and plain and use
> nominative plural everywhere (there are such alternative forms,
> at least in Slovak: dvaja ludia, traja ludia, styria ludia,
> pat ludi, sest ludi.. and the alternative form is piati ludia,
> siesti ludia etc... though there is also an alternative form
> for 2,3,4 with genitive plural)
>
Maybe it's best to stick with gen pl from 5 onwards, but that would include
21, 22, etc.
> : and in the case of direct object animates or persons?
>
> : Uncle Davey
>
>
> P.S. I just found this page:
> http://members.tripod.com/~tuonela/vranske/vranian.html
> which has some basic features of a pan-slavic language,
> though it seems to be a bit serbocroatian biased
> (maybe because the author speaks serbocroatian)
>
Well, most of what we have devised here is tending to settle pretty darn
close to Croatian, as far as I can tell.
We'll be taking the Croatian month names next.
What this guy has done has gone overboard, though. It is so Yugoslav it even
has the dual.
I wouldn't call that Vranian language (Crow language?) New Slavic, I would
call it New South Slavic.
Uncle Davey
Radovan Garabik
: "Radovan Garabik" <sp...@melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk> wrote in message
: news:mh7m9a...@127.0.0.1...
:> Uncle Davey <no...@jose.com> wrote:
:>
:> : "Radovan Garabik" <sp...@melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk> wrote in message
:>
:> :> It _almost_ did.
:> :> Your article was in KOI8-R encoding, but without correct headers, so
:> :> most news clients would be unable to display it correctly.
:> :> And moreover, when you are using KOI8-r you lose the ability to
:> :> use other characters (like a with acute accent below).
:> :> If you are using Outlook, try to find some option that says
:> :> about UTF-8 encoding for outgoing posts (I do not use Outlook and
:> :> I do not remember exactly where it is)
:> :>
:>
:> : Right, I tried it. Tools/Options/Send /International settings/UTF-8/OK.
:>
:> : Now let me try some funky stuff.
:>
:> : n EAO OAE?AO EOUAOO CAIAOOCAO ? iAEAIIAIOAA IA nOIOIA?OII uIOOA.
: Блин! Что тогда надо делать?
Попробовать другой news-reader? Или другую операционную систему :-)
: 'ks', especially for commercial brands.
:> :> This language (what would be the name?)
:>
:> : Yes indeed, Slaveranto is not really a good name.
:>
:> : How about Central Slavonic?
:>
:> or we can ressurect Mezhdja (and call it Mezda)
: That wouldn't be fair on that other language.
: Need to keep thinking.
what about Slovianski/Slaviansky/Slovienski jazik/jezik/jezyk/jazyk?
(exact form depends on accepted phonology)
:> : I think it's good not to differentiate gender in the plural.
:>
:> : Now the big one: how many cases, and how to deal with cases after
: numbers
:>
:> 5 cases (leaving vocative out, joining together dative/locative,
:> as it is in serbocroatian).
: There is a vocative in Serbo Croat.
I know, I meant the dative/locative merge.
: There is a vocative in the majority of Slavic languages.
Not it Russian or Slovak, though
: We should at least have a quasi vocative, even if it's the same for all
: genders, Radovane.
:> As for numbers, I feel there should be distinction between 2,3,4 and
:> >=5, since that seems to be rather common pattern.
:> 2,3,4 could be either in genitive singular or nominative plural
:> (which is more common?), >=5 in genitive plural
: E.Slav has genitive singular, the rest have nom. pl., if I rightly remember.
doesn't serbocroatian have genitive singular as well?
:> Or we can just make it all simple and plain and use
:> nominative plural everywhere (there are such alternative forms,
:> at least in Slovak: dvaja ludia, traja ludia, styria ludia,
:> pat ludi, sest ludi.. and the alternative form is piati ludia,
:> siesti ludia etc... though there is also an alternative form
:> for 2,3,4 with genitive plural)
:>
: Maybe it's best to stick with gen pl from 5 onwards, but that would include
: 21, 22, etc.
in Slovak it is genitive plural as well - dvadsaťdva ľudí
(the alternative form is nominative plural, dvadsiati dvaja ľudia, but
does not exist for 21)
:>
:>
:> P.S. I just found this page:
:> http://members.tripod.com/~tuonela/vranske/vranian.html
:> which has some basic features of a pan-slavic language,
:> though it seems to be a bit serbocroatian biased
:> (maybe because the author speaks serbocroatian)
:>
: Well, most of what we have devised here is tending to settle pretty darn
: close to Croatian, as far as I can tell.
: We'll be taking the Croatian month names next.
the more I am picking up common slavic features, the more does
the language look like croatian and the less and less I like its
"look and feel"
: What this guy has done has gone overboard, though. It is so Yugoslav it even
: has the dual.
dual is a specific feature of Slovenian, isn't it?
: I wouldn't call that Vranian language (Crow language?) New Slavic, I would
: call it New South Slavic.
I have an alternative proposal (as for spelling and phonology)
(this is moving away from common slavic auxlang into
alternative history new slavic)
there are additional characters я, ю, and something for "ie",
maybe we could adopt ukrainian "є", or use russian э-оборотное
for "e" and russian "е" for latin "ie". These make previous
consonant palatalized (d,t,n,l; other consonants are then pronounced
with /j/ after them). In latin script they are written
as ja, ju, je after d,t,n,l and at the beginning of a word,
and as ia,iu,ie after other consonants.
Alternative way for writing "є" in latin script is to use Czech "ě"
instead of "ie".
Palatalizing is otherwise marked with "ь", "j" in latin version.
"ы", latin "y" is used for non-palatalizing /i/, maybe for /I/
if you want to keep the distinction in pronunciation.
So we have люди,краль,млєко,пять[1],я,ты,мы,вы,язва[2],єден
(ljudi,kralj,mljeko/mlěko,piatj,ja,ty,my,vy,jazva,jeden)
I am thinking about keeping the hard yer (as in Bulgarian ъ)
but I am afraid that would be already too complicated.
[1] if the protoslavic "ě" (ять, old russian "ѣ") is going to change
into "я", It can as well change into "е" or "є"
[2] the meaning of "jazva' has to be decided (scar or wound?)
Radovan Garabik
I did some google searching and found these projects:
slovo: http://www.sweb.cz/slovanic/
(web server seems to be dead at the moment, you can see the
contents in google cache
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sweb.cz%2Fslovanic%2F&btnG=Google+Search
)
slovio: http://www.slovio.com
proslava: http://www.geocities.com/proslava/
now I wonder if it makes sence to try to do yet another project...
Nefercheprure Waenre
(that the English does not differentiate the sex (there's no _gender_
in en) in plural, does not prove that it's unnecessary.)
>
> :> : Now the big one: how many cases, and how to deal with cases after
> numbers
> :>
> :> 5 cases (leaving vocative out, joining together dative/locative,
> :> as it is in serbocroatian).
>
> : There is a vocative in Serbo Croat.
>
> I know, I meant the dative/locative merge.
>
> : There is a vocative in the majority of Slavic languages.
>
> Not it Russian or Slovak, though
article.
Generally there is no good solution. The Czechs would flame you should
you dare to ommit any of their lovely languages fearures (eg. vocative)
the Russians would not be pleased with the idea of vocative, let alone
the latin alphabet.
Earlier you wrote, that the language should be blended
acording to the number of speakers. What's the key for
determining which to opt and which to drop? Anyway
speaking of the numbers the language has to be 100%
Russian(-compatible).
> : We should at least have a quasi vocative, even if it's the same for all
> : genders, Radovane.
the vocative *form* is not determined by the gender:
cz: pane predsedo -e -o both in ma (masculinum animatum)
>
> :> As for numbers, I feel there should be distinction between 2,3,4 and
> :> >=5, since that seems to be rather common pattern.
> :> 2,3,4 could be either in genitive singular or nominative plural
> :> (which is more common?), >=5 in genitive plural
>
> : E.Slav has genitive singular, the rest have nom. pl., if I rightly remember.
>
> doesn't serbocroatian have genitive singular as well?
>
> :> Or we can just make it all simple and plain and use
> :> nominative plural everywhere (there are such alternative forms,
> :> at least in Slovak: dvaja ludia, traja ludia, styria ludia,
> :> pat ludi, sest ludi.. and the alternative form is piati ludia,
> :> siesti ludia etc... though there is also an alternative form
> :> for 2,3,4 with genitive plural)
> : Maybe it's best to stick with gen pl from 5 onwards, but that would include> : 21, 22, etc.
>
> in Slovak it is genitive plural as well - dvadsa?dva ?udí
> (the alternative form is nominative plural, dvadsiati dvaja ?udia, but
> does not exist for 21)
in czech the use of nominative (sg/pl) is invalid for any number outside of:
/.*[02-9][1-4]/ (not matching the regular expression)
(again speaking of numbers cz = 2 * sk)
> the more I am picking up common slavic features, the more does
> the language look like croatian and the less and less I like its
> "look and feel"
>
> : What this guy has done has gone overboard, though. It is so Yugoslav it even
> : has the dual.
>
> dual is a specific feature of Slovenian, isn't it?
>
> : I wouldn't call that Vranian language (Crow language?) New Slavic, I would
> : call it New South Slavic.
>
> I have an alternative proposal (as for spelling and phonology)
> (this is moving away from common slavic auxlang into
> alternative history new slavic)
that would be interesting. Yet be sure *not* to start with OCS
(old church slavonic), as the east/south change
-dl- > -l- was performed there and not in western languages.
even if you opt to make different phonetic changes,
dl could react in other way:
modlitva (prayer in old Czech) vs. molitva (OCS)
perhaps -od- > -ud- then -dl- > -l-
and you would get
mulitva (if you started from Proto-slavic) and molitva (if from OCS)
additionally do not be deceived by iz- and vy-
they were both common, why to favor just one
(russian: vybiral ... izbral)
Uncle Davey
I think most of what we did was reinvent the Croatian language from first
principles.
Uncle Davey
Uncle Davey
>
>
> I did some google searching and found these projects:
> slovo: http://www.sweb.cz/slovanic/
> (web server seems to be dead at the moment, you can see the
> contents in google cache
>
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sweb.cz%2Fslovanic%2F&
btnG=Google+Search
> )
> slovio: http://www.slovio.com
> proslava: http://www.geocities.com/proslava/
>
> now I wonder if it makes sence to try to do yet another project...
Another thought I had:
English-Nadsat-Slovio-Proslava-Russian
Which is the biggest gap in that continuum?
Uncle Davey
Uncle Davey
> Uncle Davey <no...@jose.com> wrote:
>
> : "Radovan Garabik" <sp...@melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk> wrote in message
> : news:mh7m9a...@127.0.0.1...
> :> Uncle Davey <no...@jose.com> wrote:
> :>
> :> : "Radovan Garabik" <sp...@melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk> wrote in message
> :>
> :> :> It _almost_ did.
> :> :> Your article was in KOI8-R encoding, but without correct headers,
so
> :> :> most news clients would be unable to display it correctly.
> :> :> And moreover, when you are using KOI8-r you lose the ability to
> :> :> use other characters (like a with acute accent below).
> :> :> If you are using Outlook, try to find some option that says
> :> :> about UTF-8 encoding for outgoing posts (I do not use Outlook and
> :> :> I do not remember exactly where it is)
> :> :>
> :>
> :> : Right, I tried it. Tools/Options/Send /International
settings/UTF-8/OK.
> :>
> :> : Now let me try some funky stuff.
> :>
> :> : n EAO OAE?AO EOUAOO CAIAOOCAO ? iAEAIIAIOAA IA nOIOIA?OII uIOOA.
>
> : Блин! Что тогда надо делать?
>
> Попробовать другой news-reader? Или другую операционную систему :-)
Easier to write with x-es.
>
> : 'ks', especially for commercial brands.
>
> :> :> This language (what would be the name?)
> :>
> :> : Yes indeed, Slaveranto is not really a good name.
> :>
> :> : How about Central Slavonic?
> :>
> :> or we can ressurect Mezhdja (and call it Mezda)
>
> : That wouldn't be fair on that other language.
>
> : Need to keep thinking.
>
> what about Slovianski/Slaviansky/Slovienski jazik/jezik/jezyk/jazyk?
> (exact form depends on accepted phonology)
Isn't that Slovene?
>
> :> : I think it's good not to differentiate gender in the plural.
> :>
> :> : Now the big one: how many cases, and how to deal with cases after
> : numbers
> :>
> :> 5 cases (leaving vocative out, joining together dative/locative,
> :> as it is in serbocroatian).
>
> : There is a vocative in Serbo Croat.
>
> I know, I meant the dative/locative merge.
Aha.
>
> : There is a vocative in the majority of Slavic languages.
>
> Not it Russian or Slovak, though
Russian does have a vocative, but only for seven words.
> : We should at least have a quasi vocative, even if it's the same for all
> : genders, Radovane.
>
> :> As for numbers, I feel there should be distinction between 2,3,4 and
> :> >=5, since that seems to be rather common pattern.
> :> 2,3,4 could be either in genitive singular or nominative plural
> :> (which is more common?), >=5 in genitive plural
>
> : E.Slav has genitive singular, the rest have nom. pl., if I rightly
remember.
>
> doesn't serbocroatian have genitive singular as well?
I can't remember.
>
> :> Or we can just make it all simple and plain and use
> :> nominative plural everywhere (there are such alternative forms,
> :> at least in Slovak: dvaja ludia, traja ludia, styria ludia,
> :> pat ludi, sest ludi.. and the alternative form is piati ludia,
> :> siesti ludia etc... though there is also an alternative form
> :> for 2,3,4 with genitive plural)
> :>
> : Maybe it's best to stick with gen pl from 5 onwards, but that would
include
> : 21, 22, etc.
>
> in Slovak it is genitive plural as well - dvadsatdva ludi
> (the alternative form is nominative plural, dvadsiati dvaja ludia, but
> does not exist for 21)
>
> :>
> :>
> :> P.S. I just found this page:
> :> http://members.tripod.com/~tuonela/vranske/vranian.html
> :> which has some basic features of a pan-slavic language,
> :> though it seems to be a bit serbocroatian biased
> :> (maybe because the author speaks serbocroatian)
> :>
>
> : Well, most of what we have devised here is tending to settle pretty
darn
> : close to Croatian, as far as I can tell.
> : We'll be taking the Croatian month names next.
>
> the more I am picking up common slavic features, the more does
> the language look like croatian and the less and less I like its
> "look and feel"
>
> : What this guy has done has gone overboard, though. It is so Yugoslav it
even
> : has the dual.
>
> dual is a specific feature of Slovenian, isn't it?
It also is the reason behind the -ama, -ima instrumental endings in
Serbocroat.
They used to have it, and in general South Slav kept the dual longer than
the other groups.
>
> : I wouldn't call that Vranian language (Crow language?) New Slavic, I
would
> : call it New South Slavic.
>
> I have an alternative proposal (as for spelling and phonology)
> (this is moving away from common slavic auxlang into
> alternative history new slavic)
>
>
> there are additional characters я, ю, and something for "ie",
> maybe we could adopt ukrainian "?", or use russian э-оборотное
> for "e" and russian "е" for latin "ie". These make previous
> consonant palatalized (d,t,n,l; other consonants are then pronounced
> with /j/ after them). In latin script they are written
> as ja, ju, je after d,t,n,l and at the beginning of a word,
> and as ia,iu,ie after other consonants.
> Alternative way for writing "?" in latin script is to use Czech "e"
> instead of "ie".
> Palatalizing is otherwise marked with "ь", "j" in latin version.
> "ы", latin "y" is used for non-palatalizing /i/, maybe for /I/
> if you want to keep the distinction in pronunciation.
> So we have люди,краль,мл?ко,пять[1],я,ты,мы,вы,язва[2],?ден
> (ljudi,kralj,mljeko/mleko,piatj,ja,ty,my,vy,jazva,jeden)
> I am thinking about keeping the hard yer (as in Bulgarian ъ)
> but I am afraid that would be already too complicated.
If it goes too near Russian, might as well have Russian.
A simplified Russian with a latin script might be a useful tool for some
people.
>
> [1] if the protoslavic "e" (ять, old russian "?") is going to change
> into "я", It can as well change into "е" or "?"
> [2] the meaning of "jazva' has to be decided (scar or wound?)
In Russian it means Anthrax. "Sibirskaja jazva v porosxkie."
That would go down well in your sig, actually.
Uncle Davey
Radovan Garabik
: "Radovan Garabik" <sp...@melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk> wrote in message
:> ðÏÐÒÏÂÏ×ÁÔØ ÄÒÕÇÏÊ news-reader? éÌÉ ÄÒÕÇÕÀ ÏÐÅÒÁÃÉÏÎÎÕÀ ÓÉÓÔÅÍÕ :-)
: Easier to write with x-es.
are you going to give up? :-)
:> :>
:> :> : How about Central Slavonic?
:> :>
:> :> or we can ressurect Mezhdja (and call it Mezda)
:>
:> : That wouldn't be fair on that other language.
:>
:> : Need to keep thinking.
:>
:> what about Slovianski/Slaviansky/Slovienski jazik/jezik/jezyk/jazyk?
:> (exact form depends on accepted phonology)
: Isn't that Slovene?
It is also Slovak (Slovenčina, slovenský jazyk).
It would not be bad, just care should be taken not to choose
word meaning slovenian/slovak in any of other slavic languages.
:>
:> : There is a vocative in the majority of Slavic languages.
:>
:> Not it Russian or Slovak, though
: Russian does have a vocative, but only for seven words.
the same as slovak (I did not count them, though)
:> [2] the meaning of "jazva' has to be decided (scar or wound?)
: In Russian it means Anthrax. "Sibirskaja jazva v porosxkie."
anthrax is "сибирская язва", plain old "язва" means "wound"
(and in Slovak "jazva" means "scar")
Radovan Garabik
: "Radovan Garabik" <sp...@melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk> wrote in message
: news:onto9a...@127.0.0.1...
: Another thought I had:
: English-Nadsat-Slovio-Proslava-Russian
: Which is the biggest gap in that continuum?
Now, transitional dialects from English into Russian,
that's just great :-)
I would draw it like this:
Glagolica--
\
OCS
|
English--Nadsat--Slovio---Proslava--Protoslavic
| /|
Esperanto Slovo-- |
|
Vranian--South Slavic
|
Mezhdja----- Bulgarian
Look also at:
http://matica.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=6
too bad there are both competing Glagolica and Slovo
(other projects have different premises and goals)
I found out that Slovo is well alive and under rapid development,
it just has no www presence.
For discussion, see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/slovjanski_jazyk
but you need to register in yahoo to read the archives
(I pulled out of the discussion the dictionary that is periodically
posted there, the authors have done quite a lot of work)
Uncle Davey
> Uncle Davey <no...@jose.com> wrote:
>
> : "Radovan Garabik" <sp...@melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk> wrote in message
>
> : Easier to write with x-es.
>
> are you going to give up? :-)
I'll postpone my efforts until I change my machine.
>
> :> :>
> :> :> : How about Central Slavonic?
> :> :>
> :> :> or we can ressurect Mezhdja (and call it Mezda)
> :>
> :> : That wouldn't be fair on that other language.
> :>
> :> : Need to keep thinking.
> :>
> :> what about Slovianski/Slaviansky/Slovienski jazik/jezik/jezyk/jazyk?
> :> (exact form depends on accepted phonology)
>
> : Isn't that Slovene?
>
> It is also Slovak (Slovencina, slovensky jazyk).
> It would not be bad, just care should be taken not to choose
> word meaning slovenian/slovak in any of other slavic languages.
What about just Jazik?
>
> :>
> :> : There is a vocative in the majority of Slavic languages.
> :>
> :> Not it Russian or Slovak, though
>
> : Russian does have a vocative, but only for seven words.
>
> the same as slovak (I did not count them, though)
Vocatives are cool.
>
> :> [2] the meaning of "jazva' has to be decided (scar or wound?)
>
> : In Russian it means Anthrax. "Sibirskaja jazva v porosxkie."
>
> anthrax is "сибирская язва", plain old "язва" means "wound"
> (and in Slovak "jazva" means "scar")
>
Jazva should be, like, a swear word. The more swear words a language has,
the more popular it should be.
It could be the name of the language.
Uncle Davey
Uncle Davey
Gosh, it's home time, already. I'll have another look at that tomorrow.
Looks like the sort of thing that needs more time to look at.
Uncle Davey
Piotr Mazur
[...]
> > Look also at:
> > http://matica.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=6
> >
> > too bad there are both competing Glagolica and Slovo
> > (other projects have different premises and goals)
> > I found out that Slovo is well alive and under rapid development,
> > it just has no www presence.
> > For discussion, see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/slovjanski_jazyk
> > but you need to register in yahoo to read the archives
> > (I pulled out of the discussion the dictionary that is periodically
> > posted there, the authors have done quite a lot of work)
Hello All,
My name is Piotr Mazur and Im one of the developers of Slovo project.
Feel free to ask as many qeustions about SLOVO as you can.
ps. Thanks Radovan for info about this discussion!
Regards,
--
Piotr Mazur
Uncle Davey
"Piotr Mazur" <pm...@go2.pl> wrote in message
news:866a3ecd.02050...@posting.google.com...
Owszem, mam dla Ciebie pytanko:
Jaki jest stopien rozwiniecia Waszego projekta i w jaki sposob myslicie go
opublikowac?
Z gory dziekuje,
Pozdrawiam,
Uncle Davey