Hi All, I've just posted a new version of HLA on Webster. HLA v1.78 includes a new @sort compile-time function that does a quicksort using a user-defined compare operation. This dramatically speeds up the SWITCH macro if the cases are not presorted and the number of cases is rather large (a "bubblesort" option exists that uses the original sort macro if you've got a huge SWITCH statement whose cases are [mostly] sorted). I've also added an "array.lookupTable" macro to the standard library that makes it easy to generate large lookup tables in an associative manner (much easier to maintain). Finally, I've fixed some problems with the Linux v1.77 release dealing with include files and the standard library.
> Hi All, > I've just posted a new version of HLA on Webster. > > [ ... snip ... ] > > You can find the new download at the HLA download page: > http:// <flush> > _____ > Cheers, ((( `\ > Randy Hyde _ _`\ ) (^ ) ) Oh, goodie. More nutty ~-( ) "features" to make this _'((,,,))) unmaintainable sack of ,-' \_/ `\ road apples even more ( , | bloaty than it is now. `-.-'`-.-'/|_| \ / | | I need coffee when I write =()=: / ,' aa code. In your next release, please include a routine to automatically brew my coffee. Make it a TSR. Hehe!
--- "HLA.EXE is not an assembler. Indeed, it's not even a compiler, pre-processor (or "preparser", whatever that is), though it *might* qualify as [a] 'text converter.'" - Randy Hyde, author of 'HLA,' in ALT.LANG.ASM newsgroup -- August 11, 2004
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> Assembler Standards Committee wrote: > > > Oh, goodie. More nutty "features" to make this > > unmaintainable sack of road apples even more > > bloaty than it is now. > > If it's unmaintainable, how come new versions appear > every few months? _____ ((( `\ For the same reason that _ _`\ ) Mikro$loth is able to (^ ) ) periodically release new ~-( ) versions of WinDoze, I _'((,,,))) suppose. Hehe! ,-' \_/ `\ ( , | `-.-'`-.-'/|_| \ / | | =()=: / ,' aa
> Hi All, > I've just posted a new version of HLA on Webster. > HLA v1.78 includes a new @sort compile-time function that does a > quicksort using a user-defined compare operation. This dramatically > speeds up the SWITCH macro if the cases are not presorted and the > number of cases is rather large (a "bubblesort" option exists that uses > the original sort macro if you've got a huge SWITCH statement whose > cases are [mostly] sorted).
Why don't you "bubble-sort" your Flex, Bison and C written shit out, on some HLL-Pre-Parsers News-Group?
> Assembler Standards Committee wrote: >> On 2005-10-15 Randy Hyde said:
>> > Hi All, >> > I've just posted a new version of HLA on Webster.
>> > [ ... snip ... ]
>> > You can find the new download at the HLA download page: >> > http:// <flush>
>> Oh, goodie. More nutty >> "features" to make this >> unmaintainable sack of >> road apples even more >> bloaty than it is now.
> If it's unmaintainable, how come new versions appear every few > months?
Hey! You just said it, small head: He needs a couple of months, just for having a new small toy on the top of the shit packet.
The real problem with shit packets, is that the more you add cherries on the cake, the more the shit packet gets wide, and flat in the middle, you know.
Betov wrote: > The real problem with shit packets, is that the more you > add cherries on the cake, the more the shit packet gets > wide, and flat in the middle, you know.
As insults go, you really are the king.
Given that any cake *should* be wide, and flat in the middle (I assume you want it to be "flat across the top", as in the middle it can't really be flat - it's no longer a cake then), I take it that you approve of HLA.
You might want to re-word that, as it comes across quite the opposite of how you intended.
The really amusing point in my mind is how people who know so very little about the product seem to know what all of its faults are. I'd say that HLA must be a pretty good product if all that its critics can do is complain about the fact that a new version has new features (that they don't particularly understand how to use).
BTW, for Annie's benefit, the "@sort" compile-time function added about 100 lines of code to a compiler containing well over 100,000 lines of code. The result, just on line count alone, is therefore only 0.1% less maintainable than it was before. Given the dramatic performance improvement gained during the compilation of large SWITCH macros, I'll consider that to be a big win. Sometimes, the bloat of a few hundred bytes (out of about 1-2 million) of memory is worth it. :-) Cheers, Randy Hyde
> Why don't you "bubble-sort" your Flex, Bison and C written > shit out, on some HLL-Pre-Parsers News-Group?
I'm sorry, the "preparsers" newsgroups are for preparser products, like RosAsm :-) HLA is an assembly language compiler (i.e., an assembler), hence the announcement here and in CLAX. Cheers, Randy Hyde
> Given that any cake *should* be wide, and flat in the middle (I assume you > want it to be "flat across the top", as in the middle it can't really be > flat - it's no longer a cake then), I take it that you approve of HLA.
> You might want to re-word that, as it comes across quite the opposite of how > you intended.
Rene's real problem is that his *assembler* (ignoring all the other stuff inside RosAsm) is actually rather feature-poor and he has to come up with some attack on HLA to make it seem like fewer features is a *good thing* in an assembler. What he's attempting to do is "have his cake and eat it, too." :-) Cheers, Randy Hyde
>> Why don't you "bubble-sort" your Flex, Bison and C written >> shit out, on some HLL-Pre-Parsers News-Group?
> I'm sorry, the "preparsers" newsgroups are for preparser products, like > RosAsm :-) HLA is an assembly language compiler (i.e., an assembler), > hence the announcement here and in CLAX.
Take care, ass-hole: There are still a couple of real Assembly programmers, around there, who know what an Assembler is, and, as long as there will be one, you will not succeed to sell your shitty HLL Pre-Parser under the name of Assembler without having to hear of the deserved protestations.
Betov wrote: > Take care, ass-hole: There are still a couple of real > Assembly programmers, around there,
Yes, around there. Not around here, where you hang out with your louche posts pretending to be a programmer.
> who know what an > Assembler is,
And pretending to be arbiter of what is and isn't an assembler.
> and, as long as there will be one,
i.e you and Annie, who's so retro I'm surprised she's even got a PC.
> you > will not succeed to sell your shitty HLL Pre-Parser > under the name of Assembler without having to hear of > the deserved protestations.
Jeez, give us all a break from your snotty pendantry. The last few weeks were great; mainly because you took a break from dribbling all over your keyboard.
Betov wrote: > Take care, ass-hole: There are still a couple of real > Assembly programmers, around there, who know what an > Assembler is, and, as long as there will be one, you > will not succeed to sell your shitty HLL Pre-Parser > under the name of Assembler without having to hear of > the deserved protestations.
You need to be more public.
Everybody knows that you can't take anything said on Usenet as being gospel, truth or even dependable. Is there a reputable publication that you could use if you feel that assembly is in danger? People may even believe you that way.
> Betov wrote: > > > Take care, ass-hole: There are still a couple of real > > Assembly programmers, around there, who know what an > > Assembler is, and, as long as there will be one, > > i.e you and Annie, who's so retro I'm surprised she's even > got a PC. _____ ((( `\ Yes. I've been giving some _ _`\ ) serious thought to getting (^ ) ) a Kaypro 10. Hehe! ~-( ) _'((,,,))) Oh. Sorry. No one here ,-' \_/ `\ comprehends that. ( , | `-.-'`-.-'/|_| In any case, I do agree with \ / | | Betov's philosophy that making =()=: / ,' aa calls to someone else's pre- written black-box external libraries is not "real" ASM programming.
It's like trying to create art by using a Paint-By- Numbers [tm] kit. You might end up with a nominal painting, but it sure as heck ain't "real" art. Hehehe!
> In any case, I do agree with > Betov's philosophy that making > calls to someone else's pre- > written black-box external libraries is not "real" > ASM programming.
You mean like BIOS calls, or int 20h calls?
I suppose you design and fabricate you own CPUs as well. Otherwise, it wouldn't be "real" programming.
And I further suppose that you think it is not "real" carpentry unless you make your own hammer and nails and grow your own trees.
Programming, even assembly programming, is not some form of mysticism. It is engineering, and it should be approached as an engineer, not as some loin-cloth-clad wacko.
> Annie wrote: > > > In any case, I do agree with Betov's philosophy that making > > calls to someone else's pre-written black-box external > > libraries is not "real" ASM programming. > > You mean like BIOS calls, or int 20h calls?
The ROM BIOS and the O.S. API aren't external libraries.
> I suppose you design and fabricate you own CPUs as well. > Otherwise, it wouldn't be "real" programming.
The CPU isn't an external library.
> And I further suppose that you think it is not "real" carpentry > unless you make your own hammer and nails and grow your own trees.
Non sequitur. But not unexpected from a New Jersey-ite. Hehe!
> Programming, even assembly programming, is not some form of > mysticism. It is engineering, and it should be approached > as an engineer, not as some loin-cloth-clad wacko. _____ This "engineer" approach ((( `\ is precisely what produced _ _`\ ) so much lousy software over (^ ) ) the years. ~-( ) _'((,,,))) Good, usable software is as ,-' \_/ `\ much "art" as it is "engin- ( , | eering." `-.-'`-.-'/|_| \ / | | I'd hate to drink a bottle of =()=: / ,' aa wine that was produced solely by "engineering."
Or read a novel, view a painting, or watch a movie that was produced strictly by an "engineer." Hehehe!
> Programming, even assembly programming, is not some form of > mysticism. It is engineering, and it should be approached as an > engineer, not as some loin-cloth-clad wacko.
Take care: You are addressing "mystics" who have Megas of Assembly Code to show!
Where are your Assembly written Applications, clown?
> Yes. I've been giving some _ _`\ ) > serious thought to getting (^ ) ) > a Kaypro 10. Hehe! ~-( )
Ah fond memories of the glorious past! I wish I still had my old Kaypro 10. But even though I don't I can still amaze youngsters with it when I explain that it's 10 meg hard drive had to be partitioned because the OS couldn't handle a single drive that large. :)
I'd like to comment that this rivalry between Betov Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde, while somewhat understandable, is pretty immature and childish and I find it amazing that two otherwise intelligent adults are willing to sink that that level of argumentation.
HLL was originally designed to help students learn asm, which not many people go out there way to create, infact i think its the only HLL. Whats wrong with frequent releases? after all software is never perfect and never will be,its a utopian dream. How he finds the time, i will never know.
Sligtly off topic what did you graduate in randy? I am asking as decision time for me is approaching, i'll proberly choose single honours in computer sciene opposed to cs and maths.
geletine wrote: > Sligtly off topic what did you graduate in randy? I am asking as > decision time for me is approaching, i'll proberly choose single > honours in computer sciene opposed to cs and maths.
> "Annie" wrote: > > > Yes. I've been giving some serious thought to getting > > a Kaypro 10. Hehe! > > Ah fond memories of the glorious past! I wish I still had my old > Kaypro 10. But even though I don't I can still amaze youngsters > with it when I explain that it's 10 meg hard drive had to be > partitioned because the OS couldn't handle a single drive that > large. :)
Yep, the K-10 was a real workhorse. Mine finally crapped out around 1996.
> I'd like to comment that this rivalry between Betov Jeckyl and > Mr. Hyde, while somewhat understandable, is pretty immature and > childish and I find it amazing that two otherwise intelligent > adults are willing to sink [to] that level of argumentation. > _____ > Barry ((( `\ _ _`\ ) Yeah, well...Betov is French, and (^ ) ) Randy's a self-styled "academic." ~-( ) _'((,,,))) With all that inherent arrogance ,-' \_/ `\ floating around, there's BOUND ( , | to be fireworks. Hehe! `-.-'`-.-'/|_| \ / | | =()=: / ,' aa
FASM compatible source output is very handy. One may only wish that all other High Level Languages were generating a detailed Assembly source code before they build the actual binary file.
randyh...@earthlink.net wrote: > Hi All, > I've just posted a new version of HLA on Webster. > HLA v1.78 includes a new @sort compile-time function that does a > quicksort using a user-defined compare operation. This dramatically > speeds up the SWITCH macro if the cases are not presorted and the > number of cases is rather large (a "bubblesort" option exists that uses > the original sort macro if you've got a huge SWITCH statement whose > cases are [mostly] sorted). I've also added an "array.lookupTable" > macro to the standard library that makes it easy to generate large > lookup tables in an associative manner (much easier to maintain). > Finally, I've fixed some problems with the Linux v1.77 release dealing > with include files and the standard library.
> > > In any case, I do agree with Betov's philosophy that making > > > calls to someone else's pre-written black-box external > > > libraries is not "real" ASM programming.
> > You mean like BIOS calls, or int 20h calls?
> The ROM BIOS and the O.S. API aren't external libraries.
Oh, I see. A pre-written black box is okay if it came from Microsoft, but not otherwise.
> > I suppose you design and fabricate you own CPUs as well. > > Otherwise, it wouldn't be "real" programming.
> The CPU isn't an external library.
> > And I further suppose that you think it is not "real" carpentry > > unless you make your own hammer and nails and grow your own trees.
> Non sequitur.
The term is 'reductio ad absurdum'.
> But not unexpected from a New Jersey-ite.
The proper term is 'New Jerseyan', and anyway I am really a Marylander who just happens to live in NJ.
> > Programming, even assembly programming, is not some form of > > mysticism. It is engineering, and it should be approached > > as an engineer, not as some loin-cloth-clad wacko.
> This "engineer" approach > is precisely what produced > so much lousy software over > the years.
Rubbish. It is failure to follow good engineering principles that leads to lousy software, or lousy bridges or whatever.
> Good, usable software is as > much "art" as it is "engin- > eering."
'Art' has many meanings. It is not clear what you mean.
> I'd hate to drink a bottle of > wine that was produced solely > by "engineering."
I would hate to drink a bottle of wine that was produced by ignoring sound engineering. For one thing, it would probably be fatal.
> Or read a novel, view a painting, > or watch a movie that was produced > strictly by an "engineer." Hehehe!
You can only do those things because of sound engineering, because otherwise the ink would run, the pages would fall out, the paint would flake, and the film would be fogged.
>> > > In any case, I do agree with Betov's philosophy that making >> > > calls to someone else's pre-written black-box external >> > > libraries is not "real" ASM programming.
>> > You mean like BIOS calls, or int 20h calls?
>> The ROM BIOS and the O.S. API aren't external libraries.
> Oh, I see. A pre-written black box is okay if it came from > Microsoft, but not otherwise.
Where are your Assembly written Applications, clown?
> On the contrary, Microsoft API functions and design isn't even a black > box, it's a black hole, I want to look inside but I have no right to, > and I even don't hope to see the original code... because Microsoft > Corporation does not sell it for any price... or do they? What's the > price?
Actually, back in the days of Windows NT 4.0 I had the full source code sitting on my disks at school. Microsoft *has* distributed source code to various universities and even to certain partners. However, even back in the days of NT 4.0, the source code base was sufficiently large that it was beyond the abilities of any one person to comprehend (it was something like 35 million lines of code back then, undoubtedly it's bigger today). I suspect that the easiest way for Microsoft to destroy Linux is by giving away Windows source code. Then all the OS hackers would waste so much time messing around with Windows source code that they'd never have any time to do things like write alternate OSes :-)
Seriously, I spent about a week trying to find out *where* I would look to hack distributed shared memory into the Windows kernel (forget actually doing the work, this was time spent just finding the appropriate source files to work on). Shortly afterwards, I decided that hacking the Windows kernel wasn't a task I really wanted to do.
Bottom line, though, is that Windows sources *are* out there. Average people like you and I don't have access to them (I don't have access anymore, either), but if playing around with Windows source code is something that you *must* do, all you really need to do is find the right graduate program and enroll in it. Now as to whether anything useful can come of this or not... Cheers, Randy Hyde
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