Dark Matter = Cold Molecular Hydrogen (H2)
BradGuth
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.astro/browse_frm/thread/fc9bd95a7249035a?hl=en#
On Dec 10, 11:06 am, SkyVes...@webtv.net (s v) wrote:
> http://www.newtonphysics.on.ca/hydrogen/index.html
>
> ߃--¹¹
Yes, very much in deed, a sufficient mass of extremely cold molecular
H2 is out there, and in sufficient mass to make a very big difference
in our calculating the mass of our universe, distances, as well as on
behalf of interpreting those receding redshift and radial blueshift
velocity calculations.
How many molecular H2s exist per average km3 is the next logical
question, and secondly is how much molecular H2 is represented by a
black hole or vast areas of unusual darkness, such as a certain dark
molecular cloud that could be primarily that of molecular hydrogen
(sufficient to bring photons down to FIR, if not stopped/absorbed
entirely) ?
Bok globule (5.5e37 km3 of possibly <1e16 h2/km3 = 1.84e27 kg ?)
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/9905/barnard68_vlt_big.jpg
~ BG
tadchem
> “Discovery of Molecular Hydrogen in Space does Away With Dark Matter”
> On Dec 10, 11:06 am, SkyVes...@webtv.net (s v) wrote:
>
> >http://www.newtonphysics.on.ca/hydrogen/index.html
>
> > ߃--¹¹
>
> Yes, very much in deed, a sufficient mass of extremely cold molecular
> H2 is out there, and in sufficient mass to make a very big difference
> in our calculating the mass of our universe, distances, as well as on
> behalf of interpreting those receding redshift and radial blueshift
> velocity calculations.
>
> How many molecular H2s exist per average km3 is the next logical
> question, and secondly is how much molecular H2 is represented by a
> black hole or vast areas of unusual darkness, such as a certain dark
> molecular cloud that could be primarily that of molecular hydrogen
> (sufficient to bring photons down to FIR, if not stopped/absorbed
> entirely) ?
>
> Bok globule (5.5e37 km3 of possibly <1e16 h2/km3 = 1.84e27 kg ?)
> http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/9905/barnard68_vlt_big.jpg
>
> ~ BG
Wrong. Cold molecular hydrogen absorbs light. We see hydrogen
absorbtion lines in the light passing *through* the molecular hydrogen
cloud. We can map the hydropgen clouds this way.
http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/G/giant_molecular_cloud.html
Dark matter is something else. It neither emits nor absorbs light.
Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA
BradGuth
> On Dec 10, 5:37 pm, BradGuth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > “Discovery of Molecular Hydrogen in Space does Away With Dark Matter”
> > http://groups.google.com/group/sci.astro/browse_frm/thread/fc9bd95a72...
> > On Dec 10, 11:06 am, SkyVes...@webtv.net (s v) wrote:
>
> > >http://www.newtonphysics.on.ca/hydrogen/index.html
>
> > > ߃--¹¹
>
> > Yes, very much in deed, a sufficient mass of extremely cold molecular
> > H2 is out there, and in sufficient mass to make a very big difference
> > in our calculating the mass of our universe, distances, as well as on
> > behalf of interpreting those receding redshift and radial blueshift
> > velocity calculations.
>
> > How many molecular H2s exist per average km3 is the next logical
> > question, and secondly is how much molecular H2 is represented by a
> > black hole or vast areas of unusual darkness, such as a certain dark
> > molecular cloud that could be primarily that of molecular hydrogen
> > (sufficient to bring photons down to FIR, if not stopped/absorbed
> > entirely) ?
>
> > Bok globule (5.5e37 km3 of possibly <1e16 h2/km3 = 1.84e27 kg ?)
> > http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/9905/barnard68_vlt_big.jpg
>
> > ~ BG
>
> Wrong. Cold molecular hydrogen absorbs light. We see hydrogen
> absorbtion lines in the light passing *through* the molecular hydrogen
>
> Dark matter is something else. It neither emits nor absorbs light.
>
> Tom Davidson
> Richmond, VA
Correct, there's lots of H2 out there, whereas it absorbs light (aka
dark matter).
Bok globule (5.5e37 km3 of possibly <1e16 h2/km3 = 1.84e27 kg ?)
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/9905/barnard68_vlt_big.jpg
What if the average population of H2 for the entire universe were 1e12/
km3, with some dark molecular clouds of H2 reaching 1e18/km3 (1e9/m3)
should block/absorb lots of visible light.
~ BG
eric gisse
[...]
Guthball isn't constrained by reality in any way.
Uncle Al
Hey... Guth has one outstanding boast: In the spirit of Dr. Schund,
he begins with technical fact and is punctiliously *never* correct.
Dr. Schund does it to annoy, as sarcasm (but then string theory
-wah!). Guth is stooopid.
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/publon.htm
"Ask Dr. Schund"
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz4.htm
BradGuth
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.astro/browse_frm/thread/fc9bd95a7249035a?hl=en#
On Dec 10, 11:06 am, SkyVes...@webtv.net (s v) wrote:
> http://www.newtonphysics.on.ca/hydrogen/index.html
>
> ߃--¹¹
Yes, very much in deed, a sufficient mass of extremely cold molecular
H2 is out there, and in sufficient average density to make a very big
difference in our calculating the mass of our universe, distances, as
well as on behalf of interpreting those receding redshift and radial
blueshift velocity calculations.
How many molecular H2s exist per average km3 is the next logical
question, and secondly is how much molecular H2 is represented by a
black hole or vast areas of unusual darkness, such as a certain dark
molecular cloud that could be primarily that of molecular hydrogen
(sufficient to bring photons down to FIR, if not stopped/absorbed
entirely) ?
Bok globule (5.5e37 km3 of possibly <1e16 h2/km3 = 1.84e27 kg ?)
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/9905/barnard68_vlt_big.jpg
http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/G/giant_molecular_cloud.html
Correct, as apparently in cosmic spots there's lots of H2 out there,
whereas it absorbs light (aka dark matter).
A small molecular cloud (SMC):
Bok globule (5.5e37 km3 of possibly <1e16 h2/km3 = 1.84e27 kg ?)
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/9905/barnard68_vlt_big.jpg
What if the average population of H2 for the entire universe were 1e12/
km3, with some of the darkest molecular clouds of H2 reaching 1e21/km3
(1e12/m3) by rights should block/absorb lots of visible light.
~ BG
BradGuth
> eric gisse wrote:
>
> > tadchem wrote:
>
> > [...]
>
> > Guthball isn't constrained by reality in any way.
>
> Hey... Guth has one outstanding boast: In the spirit of Dr. Schund,
> he begins with technical fact and is punctiliously *never* correct.
> Dr. Schund does it to annoy, as sarcasm (but then string theory
> -wah!). Guth is stooopid.
>
> http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/publon.htm
> "Ask Dr. Schund"
>
> --
> (Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz4.htm
Those Rothschild Seans must be soooo proud of you.
~ BG
Richard D. Saam
> �Discovery of Molecular Hydrogen in Space does Away With Dark Matter�
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.astro/browse_frm/thread/fc9bd95a7249035a?hl=en#
> On Dec 10, 11:06 am, SkyVes...@webtv.net (s v) wrote:
>> http://www.newtonphysics.on.ca/hydrogen/index.html
>>
>
> Yes, very much in deed, a sufficient mass of extremely cold molecular
> H2 is out there, and in sufficient average density to make a very big
> difference in our calculating the mass of our universe, distances, as
> well as on behalf of interpreting those receding redshift and radial
> blueshift velocity calculations.
>
> How many molecular H2s exist per average km3 is the next logical
> question, and secondly is how much molecular H2 is represented by a
> black hole or vast areas of unusual darkness, such as a certain dark
> molecular cloud that could be primarily that of molecular hydrogen
> (sufficient to bring photons down to FIR, if not stopped/absorbed
> entirely) ?
>
> Bok globule (5.5e37 km3 of possibly <1e16 h2/km3 = 1.84e27 kg ?)
> http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/9905/barnard68_vlt_big.jpg
>
> http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/G/giant_molecular_cloud.html
> Correct, as apparently in cosmic spots there's lots of H2 out there,
> whereas it absorbs light (aka dark matter).
>
> A small molecular cloud (SMC):
> Bok globule (5.5e37 km3 of possibly <1e16 h2/km3 = 1.84e27 kg ?)
> http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/9905/barnard68_vlt_big.jpg
>
> What if the average population of H2 for the entire universe were 1e12/
> km3, with some of the darkest molecular clouds of H2 reaching 1e21/km3
> (1e12/m3) by rights should block/absorb lots of visible light.
> ~ BG
The dark matter is H2 with proportions of other nuclei
characteristic of the Big Bang.
But H2 and other nuclei are not predominately in gaseous form
subject to conventional Beers law attenuation.
H2 and other nuclei are in extremely cold solid chunks
with negligible Beers law attenuation.
Bose Einstein Condensates best describe such a condition.
Richard D. Saam
BradGuth
> BradGuth wrote:
> > “Discovery of Molecular Hydrogen in Space does Away With Dark Matter”
> > http://groups.google.com/group/sci.astro/browse_frm/thread/fc9bd95a72...
> > On Dec 10, 11:06 am, SkyVes...@webtv.net (s v) wrote:
> >>http://www.newtonphysics.on.ca/hydrogen/index.html
>
Thanks. Dark matter isn't really dark, it's just cold enough and
perhaps nonbinding enough to block/absorb photons.
How about molecular helium? (how much visible light does a km3 of cold
He absorb?)
~ BG
Uncle Al
>
> BradGuth wrote:
> > �Discovery of Molecular Hydrogen in Space does Away With Dark Matter�
> > http://groups.google.com/group/sci.astro/browse_frm/thread/fc9bd95a7249035a?hl=en#
> > On Dec 10, 11:06 am, SkyVes...@webtv.net (s v) wrote:
> >> http://www.newtonphysics.on.ca/hydrogen/index.html
> >>
So stipulated. The cosmic background is not nearly cold enough to
pull it off. A dispersion of solid hydrogen sand or pebbles or chunks
would be screamingly obvious as light scattering. Molecular hydrogen
gas would give the vacuum refractive index larger than one plus
optical dispersion.
Brad Guth has a perfect track record of being a techo-ass: Mars to
hollow moon to rockets with long fuel lines to the beanstalk to
hadronic dark matter to...
--
Uncle Al
BradGuth
> "Richard D. Saam" wrote:
>
> > BradGuth wrote:
> > > “Discovery of Molecular Hydrogen in Space does Away With Dark Matter”
> > > On Dec 10, 11:06 am, SkyVes...@webtv.net (s v) wrote:
> > >>http://www.newtonphysics.on.ca/hydrogen/index.html
>
> (Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz4.htm
The extreme vacuum of space makes cold molecular H2 and perhaps even
He perfectly doable as dark matter, as long as there's no gravity seed
or other binding force taking place that could turn such dark clouds
into stars and planets. This might easily explain where much of that
illusive 95% mass of our universe has been hiding in plain sight, so
to speak.
~ BG
Double-A
The late Paul Marmet's theories seem interesting at first, but when
you follow them far enough, they seem to run off the tracks, just like
the theories of the late Tom van Flandern.
Double-A
BradGuth
I didn't suggest that molecular H2 and He are entirely accounting for
dark matter, although it seems reasonable enough that it could
represent at least the majority of all that missing mass that
supposedly makes our singular BB universe tick, at least according to
those extremely weak Newtonian laws of gravity that are at best
insignificant, but for the moment pretty much all we got unless
something other than gravity is in charge.
Personally, I favor those other much stronger forces, as does Darla
and those crazy seans that Darla hangs with.
~ BG
Richard D. Saam
> "Richard D. Saam" wrote:
>> BradGuth wrote:
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.astro/browse_frm/thread/fc9bd95a7249035a?hl=en#
>>> On Dec 10, 11:06 am, SkyVes...@webtv.net (s v) wrote:
>>>> http://www.newtonphysics.on.ca/hydrogen/index.html
>>>>
The hydrogen BEC's would maintain their BEC character
over ~13 billion years since adiabatically produced at the Big Bang
because of their thermal equilibrium with predominant
'Dark Energy' rho = 6.38E-30 g/cc at temperature 8.11E-16 K
compared to
CMBR rho = 4.69E-34 g/cc at temperature 2.7 K
>A dispersion of solid hydrogen sand or pebbles or chunks
> would be screamingly obvious as light scattering.
Not obvious at all. BEC hydrogen only responds to specific frequency.
Laboratory created MIT BECs did not respond to ambient light.
The 1S-2S characteristic BEC hydrogen transition is at 243 nm (1.23E+15 hz)
This 1S-2S transition would have to be initiated before subsequent
Rydberg transitions.
This 243 nm (1.23E+15 hz) absorption is way out on the CMBR tale
and absorbing in a band width of ~1e6 hz.
Ref: Killian 1S-2S Spectrum of a Hydrogen Bose-Einstein Condensate
Physical Review A 61, 33611 (2000)
http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/9908002v3
Calculations indicate the einsteins absorbed
at this characteristic hydrogen BEC frequency at 243 nm (band width of
~1e6 hz)
from CMBR would not substantially affect hydrogen BEC chunks over
universe life 13.7 billion years.
> Molecular hydrogen
> gas would give the vacuum refractive index larger than one plus
> optical dispersion.
but most mass is in BEC chunks
not apparent to Beers law.
Richard D. Saam
Antares 531
<tad...@comcast.net> wrote:
>On Dec 10, 5:37�pm, BradGuth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> �Discovery of Molecular Hydrogen in Space does Away With Dark Matter�
>> �http://groups.google.com/group/sci.astro/browse_frm/thread/fc9bd95a72...
>> �On Dec 10, 11:06 am, SkyVes...@webtv.net (s v) wrote:
>>
>> >http://www.newtonphysics.on.ca/hydrogen/index.html
>>
>> > ߃--��
>>
>> Yes, very much in deed, a sufficient mass of extremely cold molecular
>> H2 is out there, and in sufficient mass to make a very big difference
>> in our calculating the mass of our universe, distances, as well as on
>> behalf of interpreting those receding redshift and radial blueshift
>> velocity calculations.
>>
>> How many molecular H2s exist per average km3 is the next logical
>> question, and secondly is how much molecular H2 is represented by a
>> black hole or vast areas of unusual darkness, such as a certain dark
>> molecular cloud that could be primarily that of molecular hydrogen
>> (sufficient to bring photons down to FIR, if not stopped/absorbed
>> entirely) ?
>>
>> Bok globule (5.5e37 km3 of possibly <1e16 h2/km3 = 1.84e27 kg ?)
>> �http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/9905/barnard68_vlt_big.jpg
>>
>> �~ BG
>
>Wrong. Cold molecular hydrogen absorbs light. We see hydrogen
>absorbtion lines in the light passing *through* the molecular hydrogen
>cloud. We can map the hydropgen clouds this way.
>http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/G/giant_molecular_cloud.html
>
>Dark matter is something else. It neither emits nor absorbs light.
>
>Tom Davidson
>Richmond, VA
>
Tom, is there any chance that dark matter could be somehow linked to
the other dimensions posited by Super String Theory? If those
dimensions are rolled up to less than a Planck length, but remain
associated with our perceived space/time, it seems that the mass they
represent could be the dark matter we seem to be associated with.
Gordon
BradGuth
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 06:20:19 -0800 (PST), tadchem
>
>
>
> <tadc...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >On Dec 10, 5:37 pm, BradGuth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> “Discovery of Molecular Hydrogen in Space does Away With Dark Matter”
> >> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.astro/browse_frm/thread/fc9bd95a72...
> >> On Dec 10, 11:06 am, SkyVes...@webtv.net (s v) wrote:
>
> >> >http://www.newtonphysics.on.ca/hydrogen/index.html
>
That seems reasonable enough. However, molecular hydrogen and helium
could still represent a very great deal of dark matter mass,
especially if it's more dense the further out one goes, where
everything is older and colder.
~ BG