Hello All,

Has anyone heard of or had a sucess with Dr. Samuel Thatcher in TN? I think
he's with The Center for Applied Reproductive Science in Johnson City, TN.

Thanks
Rhonda

You may want to try adoption.  Human overpopulation contributes to
environmental degradation world wide which eventually will cause human
extinction.
--
Lisa Childs
SSDU Women's Studies
United Nations Association of San Diego
lchi...@aznet.net

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre
minds."  
Albert Einstein

It's a shame your biological parents didn't share your philosophy.  Why don't
you go torture small animals and leave us alone?

Karen

Dear Karen,
        Thank you.  i could not have expressed that any better.  i think adoption
is equally beautiful and equally valuable as an option for family-building,
but this new-age, one-world, deluded feminist crap truly reeks.  BTW, i am
a proud adoptive mom to a 14 yr. old daughter whom i love more than life,
and will soon be trying (again) to get pg, at the age of 40 and counting.
Blessings to you and yours.  smiles, dee <><

NYWahoo <nywa...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19971230211600.QAA19...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...

Jeez, another nitwit who believes news bites!  

FYI, the fecundity rate in the United States (as well as most European
countries) is well below the rate needed by an industrialized nation to
insure that we do not exceed our carrying capacity (the amount of
individuals that the Earth can sustain).  There are many other nations
such as Africa and India (I am not knocking them, it is a cultural
phenomena) that exceed this limit by two to three times the rate.

With cultural phenomena in mind, should we raid countries with high
fecundity rates and plunder families?  Should we make concerted efforts
to reduce the birth rates in these countries where cultures embrace
large families because of our concern about overpopulation (in places
where it doesn't even exist?) Or are we even concerned about the impact
to the women affected?  Maybe we can just hold them down and rip out
their uteruses!  What a concept, human rights violations to save human
kind!  Personally, I would rather become extinct if the alternative is
losing all sense of culture, individualism, and humanity for the sake of
merely surviving.

What a narrow-minded, ill-thought out comment you have made.  Not to
mention thoughtless.  I bet your university department thinks you are a
real gem. Women's studies, huh?  Which women?  You need to study more.

Michelle
BA in anthropology (including world fertility studies!)

   Karen,

  My sentiments exactly! LOL

                    Kathy

Here we go again, another visionary preaching to the infertility support group
about world overpopulation.  Think about it, Lisa!  Do you feel foolish?

Why do you think that it's our job to solve this problem that we certainly
didn't create and adopt the children of those who weren't responsible enough to
prevent unwanted pregnancies?

For the $20,000 that it would cost me to adopt (which - surprise! - I don't
have just laying around), I could try IVF 2 or 3 times!  If you really want to
make a difference, why don't you lobby for financial assistance for those who
dearly want to be parents but just can't afford to pay off all the filthy-rich
bloodsucking lawyers?

Anne in Southwest FL

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
92.7% of statistics are made up on the spur of the moment.

Lisa,
If you don't have any info on this Dr you should not contribute your
worthless .02

Lisa Childs <lchi...@aznet.net> wrote in article
<34A9582F.3...@aznet.net>...

: Jeez, another nitwit who believes news bites!  

: FYI, the fecundity rate in the United States (as well as most European
: countries) is well below the rate needed by an industrialized nation to
: insure that we do not exceed our carrying capacity (the amount of
: individuals that the Earth can sustain).  There are many other nations
: such as Africa and India (I am not knocking them, it is a cultural
: phenomena) that exceed this limit by two to three times the rate.

Actually, it may be an economic phenomenon.  At least, I once read a very
provocative article pointing out that Europe had equivalent birthrates a
century or so ago -- right around the time that agricultural productivity
zoomed.  Now it is zooming in Africa/India, and the population is zooming
to suit.  As expected standards of living (and especially education levels
for girls/women) increase, population levels there too should stabilize or
start dropping.  I agree with the main gist of your comments, however!

: With cultural phenomena in mind, should we raid countries with high
: fecundity rates and plunder families?  Should we make concerted efforts
: to reduce the birth rates in these countries where cultures embrace
: large families because of our concern about overpopulation (in places
: where it doesn't even exist?) Or are we even concerned about the impact
: to the women affected?  Maybe we can just hold them down and rip out
: their uteruses!  What a concept, human rights violations to save human
: kind!  Personally, I would rather become extinct if the alternative is
: losing all sense of culture, individualism, and humanity for the sake of
: merely surviving.

: What a narrow-minded, ill-thought out comment you have made.  Not to
: mention thoughtless.  I bet your university department thinks you are a
: real gem. Women's studies, huh?  Which women?  You need to study more.

: Michelle
: BA in anthropology (including world fertility studies!)

--
Mary Susan

Get a life, Miss Sensitive

My parents came from a the WWII generation where information regarding
the human overpopulation problem was not openly discussed.  The trama
due to death experiences from that war led many people to hope for new
lives which included much reproduction, (hence the baby boomers).

Today scientific evidence, not speculation, informs us of the
irreversible environmental devastation related to human overpopulation.
These problems are not only the responsibility of "Third World"
counties, but also, the industrialized nations as well. That includes us
here in the United States, where we as a throw away society alone create
massive pollution and trash problems.  Identifying problems and working
together to solve them involves much reasoned discussion.  

I understand, wanting to reproduce is a highly emotional issue and
apparantly can evoke emotional responses of rage and hostility.  But is
this what we want to teach our children?  I think we might rather teach
them how to deliberate and debate and come to a concensus on an issue
that effects us all so directly.  

The scientists who are experimenting with reproductive technology are
not going to give you food for thought regarding the human
overpopulation problem when they are looking at you as a paycheck just
as the chemical companies and surgeons promoting breast implants won't
inform recipients of the health dangers associated with putting toxins
in their bodies.  Both are thinking about their livelihood.

Just a little food for thought!
---
Lisa Childs
SSDU Women's Studies
United Nations Association of San Diego
lchi...@aznet.net

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre
minds."  
Albert Einstein

Lisa,

This ng loves nothing more than to deliberate and debate issues that are
interesting to us. Plus we are here to support each other.

However, your issues are NOT of interest to most of us.  Why don't you post
somewhere where you can have meaningful intereactions!  Everyone here has your
email address by now and if they want to converse with you, so be it.

The children born to people in this ng will be raised with a love that is probably
beyond your comprehension, so don't worry about what will be taught to them.

In the mean time, why don't you crawl back under your rock and leave us alone!

Webstress
-----------------------------

Lisa,

If these are your beliefs, fine but please take them elsewhere.  I don't
understand why you are reading and posting to an infertility newsgroup.
You sound like an 18 year old student who has just finished a course and
has decided to share your new found wisdom.  

Find another group to bother.

Excellent response....

Personally I find it disturbing that Lisa (an individual who purports to be
a student of Womens Studies) made that type of posting to this newsgroup.

Insensitive and inappropriate....

How sad.

Alison

Bobocats <boboc...@home.com> wrote in article
<34AD0C28.B1C45...@home.com>...

If you have nothing of interest to say to the people reading this news
group, then don't post here.  How many children do you have??

Your opinions show just how mediocre your mind really is, narrow and
self centred.

Statistically speaking world wide: the lower the educational level of
people, particularly women, the more children they produce.  

--
Lisa Childs
SSDU Women's Studies
United Nations Association of San Diego
lchi...@aznet.net

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre
minds."  
Albert Einstein

Just riding on the freeways and highways may give you some indication of
the overpopulation problems that exist if you are scepitcal about
statistics.
I woould rather hope to educate people about one the most pervasive
problem (human overpopulation) in the history of civilization.

I am a student of Women's Studies.  I also spent twenty years working
for major corporations and small businesses.  I speak for my own mind
although I do consider myself an ecofeminist, but not a vegitarian-
ecofeminist or vegan vegitarian-feminist.  You may be interested to know
that there are many distinctions between types of feminism such as:
Marxist feminists; socialist feminists; Marxist-socialist feminists;
cultural feminists; material feminists; radical feminists; pro-choice
feminists; pro-life feminists; postmodern feminists etc.  Feminist
theory is diverse and the discourse is very inclusive.  Strong voices of
any persuation are encouraged. "Feminism does not speak with a single
voice".  There is much disagreement among feminists on any topic, a sort
of democratic idea.  

More food for thought!

--
Lisa Childs
SSDU Women's Studies
United Nations Association of San Diego
lchi...@aznet.net

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre
minds."  
Albert Einstein

Lisa,
Since you seem to care so strongly about this, what *active* measures have you taken
to solve the problem of world overpopulation?
I would like to know how many children *you* have adopted (since that seems to be
your solution to the so called problem.)
I agree with the rest of the people on this news groups that if you have nothing of
interest to say, don't post here.

Anne:  
My sentiments exactly!!!
Thanks,
Linda
linnie...@webtv.net

Statistically speaking world wide: the lower
people, particularly women, the more children they

--
Lisa Childs
SSDU Women's Studies
United Nations Association
lchi...@aznet.net

"Great spirits have always encountered

minds."  
Albert Einstein

Well if this statistic is true, than we are the most educated women in the
world, and that means we know a whole lot more than you give us credit for.

Now onto overpopulation.  I just moved from Florida to San Diego.  Take the
drive through Arizona, New Mexico and Texas and see all the vast unused space
that could be used for agriculture and places to house people.  Take a drive
out to Ramona or to Julian and look at the vast expanse of rolling hills that
are devoid of housing.  Drive North of LA and see how there is nothing off of
I5 in the form of development.

Now, if every person in the world was given 1,000 square feet of their own
space to use, the entire population of the world would only take up one third
of Texas.  Now of course the whole world doesn't want to live that close to
each other, but it kind of proves that their is alot less overpopulation than
numbskulls like you would like to claim there is.

As for me, I enjoy living on my 10 acre lot, with happy little bunnies running
from the hungry  coyote's, find it comforting to find deer droppings up in my
overgrown avocado grove (I've only lived here a couple of days, give me a year
or so to get it going), and all with the knowledge that I am only a half an
hour away from the school you claim to attend.  And the freeways in San Diego
are not bad in the least.

Becky

FYI the waiting list in San Diego county for a healthy infant adoption is over
2 years, special needs (over 8 or handicapped) adoptions have a waiting list of
3 to 4 years.  In San Diego county they actually have more people who want to
adopt then they have children available for adoption.  

It seems to me that anyone concerned about women's rights should be
concerned about women's rights to conceive if they so desire, not just
about the rights of women who are so "enlightened" as to not want
biological children. If you want to preach about overpopulation, do it
at a high school or in a teen chat room...they are the ones having
babies left and right without forethought. Most of us can't add to the
population no matter what we try!

In article <34AE96D6.5...@aznet.net>, Lisa Childs <lchi...@aznet.net>
wrote

Well well well. I notice that you still ride on the freeways and
highways despite your ecofeminism, and furthermore that your education
is ongoing as your spelling is frankly appalling.  For the record it is
vegetarian, and sceptical.  I won't bother to correct the grammar, but
would point out that this kind of tedious and inappropriate posting is
unwelcome and tactless in the extreme.

--
Alicia Andrews