United Nations moving to China!
tdp...@gmail.com
Before he took office,
America had the world by the ass.
Almost all of the world respected, trusted, admired and emulated
America.
In less than two years, Bush destroyed that, and
now he has all the nations of the world,
rearming, forming new alliances, finding new sources for American
products, etc.
Considering Bush's hostility toward the United Nations,
and the cost of all the nations maintaining staffs
in New York, and the cost of updating the U.N. facilities,
I suggest that if China offered to build a new complex in Pudong
that the majority of the world would enthusiatically back the idea.
If the United Nations moves to China, China will reap enormous
financial and political power benefits, and will become the
communications center and power broker of the future,
while. America will become isolated from the rest of the world,
and drift into a more agricultural state.
( As America loses markets, and financial and political power,
and has to genuflect to the oil providers to stay afloat.)
It is interesting to observe that Croesus caused the downfall of his
kingdom by invading Persia, and Emperor Julian caused the downfall of
Rome by attacking Persia, and Bush has set the stage for the demise of
America by doing the same.
All had little to gain and much to lose, by their actions,
and their insane, egotistical, emotionally driven acts
destroyed what their societies took centuries to build.
--
Tom Potter
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp
http://photos.yahoo.com/tdp1001
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
Nick
Everything about his presidency was a lie. And you're a lie lover.
CWatters
<tdp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1124947277....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> America will become isolated from the rest of the world,
and it isn't "isolated" already?
While Governments may support the USA it seems public opinion in many
countries is somewhat less favourable at the moment.
Polish Prince (Szynka)
A matter of fact, through his dealings with the PRC, he has made us very
vulnerable. He ignored the threat of Radical Islamist Terrorism. Many
attacks against Americans , both at home and abroad, occurred on his watch.
I actually thought that GW would come riding in on a white horse and save
the day.
"Nick" <macro...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1124949224.5...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
d...@dan.com
"Nick" <macro...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1124949224.5...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
hanson
>
[hanson]
AHAHAHA .... now THAT you may say without repercussion or
sounding un-American. However, everybody knows that you
are a traitor to America, singing your phony peace song, only
to cover your real intents and aims which you have posted
back in 2003, when you, "tdp" Tom Potter, exclaimed:
>> tdp:... Hopefully, "hanson" will join with me,..........
>> tdp:... and begin to slaughter ......
>> tdp:... in the blood fest.....
>> tdp:... Bush and his family...
>> tdp:... will be pissed on and destroyed....
>> tdp:... Frankly, I'd [Tom] like to see ...the American government to
>> tdp:... investigate and try to make a case against me, [Tom Potter]
>
[hanson]
Potter, you are such a phony swine because you don't even have
the decency to apologize to the 3 ladies, a mom & her two then
teenage daughters, after you, Tom Potter, had instigated that call
for terrorist incitement above. Fuck you, yellow cocksucker.
>
[Potter]
> Considering Bush's hostility toward the United Nations,
> and the cost of all the nations maintaining staffs
> in New York, and the cost of updating the U.N. facilities,
> I suggest that if China offered to build a new complex in Pudong
> that the majority of the world would enthusiatically back the idea.
>
[hanson]
... ahahaha... Now, that is an excellent idea Potter. You are phony
though as usual because you have ulterior motives here too:
.... as you have posted, your own daughter works for the UN.
...ahahaha... AHAHAHAHA.... AHAHAHAHAHA... ahahaha...
By your suggestion you have simply proven again that you are
a corrupt and traitorous, substandard peddler but this time you
have aligned yourself with folks right up your own alley.... ahahaha...
..... the UN, humankind's most corrupt institution and organization.
Now, I don't mind if the UN gets out of the US. Work very hard on
it Potter. I truly wish you luck on this fantasy of yours... ahahahaha..
[Potter]
If the United Nations moves to China, China will reap enormous
financial and political power benefits, and will become the
communications center and power broker of the future,
>
[hanson]
.... yeah, just like the US reaps enormous financial and political
power benefits from the UN now... AHAHahahaha... AHAHAHA....
Potter did your Chinese handlers tell you to ejaculate shit like
that?... or are you drowning in cheap Chinese booze... ahahaha...
>
[Potter]
while America will become isolated from the rest of the world,
and drift into a more agricultural state.
>
[hanson]
ahaha... see your hatred & disdain you have for your native country,
Potter?... I bet you, your pappy is rolling over in his grave because
of you... "Pappy, forgive your son, Tom-Tom, for he does not know
what is saying in his waning & final days of his geriatric mentation."
... AHAHAHA... ahahaha....
>
[predictions for Potter]
... (1) "as can be seen", (2) "it is intersting to see" that (3) "the poster
makes a good point"......
>
[hanson]
ahahaha... AHAHAHA... thanks for the laughs, Tom-Tom, but
by all means do push for China to host the UN. Of course only
after you have apologized to the Ladies, the Nation and to the
Prez. The refined and cultured Chinese do not want do have
a klutz and fanatic like you representing them.... ahahahaha...
ahahaha... ahahanson
d...@dan.com
news:WkdPe.132550$5N3.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Clinton dealt with the terrorism threat exceptionally well during his
Presidency. Very few Americans died from terrorist attacks during his 8
years in office. Bush screwed up royally, and 3000 Americans died. That Bush
is worse than Clinton at fighting terrorism is self-evident.
Billy
d...@dan.com
administration that shows nothing but contempt for the very idea of the UN.
They have done plenty of positive things, but they require good faith
cooperation of nations in order to be effective.
"Billy" <neve...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:XHdPe.41315$Ji4.40562@fed1read03...
cLIeNUX user
>Clinton done nothing positive for this country during his administration.
>A matter of fact, through his dealings with the PRC, he has made us very
>vulnerable. He ignored the threat of Radical Islamist Terrorism. Many
>attacks against Americans , both at home and abroad, occurred on his watch.
>
>I actually thought that GW would come riding in on a white horse and save
>the day.
>
That degree of stupidity is closely related to thinking Clinton ignored
terrorism. Dubya ignored Clinton's terrorism warnings. Ascroft was more
threatened by porn than Bin Laden. Republicans have sucked ass for 40
years.
At least your pin head finally got an 80-column newsreader.
Congratulations.
--
Rick (Richard Allen) Hohensee Party of one
candidate, President of the United States of America
humb...@smart.net Maryland, USA
Ground troops out of Iraq Put the CIA under INS
Semi-legalize drugs Prosecute Bush Tighten the borders
Isolate Israel Tax churches halve military aquisitions
platform ftp://smart.net/pub/humbubba/platform2
<SmirkS>
> I actually thought that GW would come riding in on a white horse and
> save the day.
>
jeez, larry - this is worse tripe than tsarkon puts out.
--
TheTruthHurts.
cLIeNUX user
<SmirkS>
point taken.
;|
--
TheTruthHurts.
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>"Polish Prince (Szynka)" <wawrz...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
>news:WkdPe.132550$5N3.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>> Clinton done nothing positive for this country during his administration.
>> A matter of fact, through his dealings with the PRC, he has made us very
>> vulnerable. He ignored the threat of Radical Islamist Terrorism. Many
>> attacks against Americans , both at home and abroad, occurred on his
>> watch.
>>
>> I actually thought that GW would come riding in on a white horse and save
>> the day.
>>
>> "Nick" <macro...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1124949224.5...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>> Bush is only the inheritor of what Clinton did to America.
>>>
>>> Everything about his presidency was a lie. And you're a lie lover.
>
>Clinton dealt with the terrorism threat exceptionally well during his
>Presidency. Very few Americans died from terrorist attacks during his 8
>years in office.
You could've equally well say that the British PM Baldwin dealt
exceptionally well with the Nazi threat since no Briton died from
German attacks during his years in office.
Ignorance of history, lack of understanding of long term processes,
short attention span. You're not worth a further comment.
Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
me...@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
Winston Smith, American Patriot
@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> Bush is only the inheritor of what Clinton did to America.
>
> Everything about his presidency was a lie. And you're a lie lover.
What is so entertaining about these groups is seeing Bush-worshipping
assholes in denial.
Schoenfeld
Try living in a country filled with them.
Schoenfeld
tdp...@gmail.com wrote:
> ( As America loses markets, and financial and political power,
> and has to genuflect to the oil providers to stay afloat.)
China is not without it's own problems. They're making the same
mistakes the Soviets made. Their economic growth stems largely from the
industrial belt they built and enslave the farm peasants with. Reality
is that US and China are natural allies. Without the US to consume
their output, China can't employ it's billions and this leads to it's
historical social chaos. US is on the other side of the spectrum,
consuming all in sight with a credit card limited only by Chinas
willingness to keep lending through junk bonds (2.3 billion / day).
Without China, the USA can't even dress their own soldiers! The obvious
breaking point between Sino/US relations is energy (which is
increasingly important these days).
The only way out for China is to develop a domestic economy to consume
their own crap, but this is extremely difficult for them due to
political and economic structure (communism, cheap labor). Consumerism
won't work in China, so they need to figure out a way to survive in a
world without a US.
US has no way out. I've never met an American working a high-tech job
in America. Not one. Once the money runs out these guys will jump ship,
without question. Let the intelligent design graduates run the tech
sector LOL!
> It is interesting to observe that Croesus caused the downfall of his
> kingdom by invading Persia, and Emperor Julian caused the downfall of
> Rome by attacking Persia, and Bush has set the stage for the demise of
> America by doing the same.
Yes that region was, is and always will be in a state of permanent
crisis. But it is not the reason why those empires fell. Those empires
rotted from the inside, like the US has. Soldiers too worried about
scarring their beautiful faces than to actually fight - a parasitical
majority with their self-appointed "birthright" to live off the labor
of others.
> All had little to gain and much to lose, by their actions,
> and their insane, egotistical, emotionally driven acts
> destroyed what their societies took centuries to build.
US built itself on the backs of slaves and it will end that way too.
Chance Hopkins
<mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
news:0fePe.25$e5....@news.uchicago.edu...
> In article <et6dnQxMWqD...@comcast.com>, <d...@dan.com> writes:
>>"Polish Prince (Szynka)" <wawrz...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
>>news:WkdPe.132550$5N3.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>> Clinton done nothing positive for this country during his
>>> administration.
>>> A matter of fact, through his dealings with the PRC, he has made us very
>>> vulnerable. He ignored the threat of Radical Islamist Terrorism. Many
>>> attacks against Americans , both at home and abroad, occurred on his
>>> watch.
>>>
>>> I actually thought that GW would come riding in on a white horse and
>>> save
>>> the day.
>>>
>>> "Nick" <macro...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1124949224.5...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>> Bush is only the inheritor of what Clinton did to America.
>>>>
>>>> Everything about his presidency was a lie. And you're a lie lover.
>>
>>Clinton dealt with the terrorism threat exceptionally well during his
>>Presidency. Very few Americans died from terrorist attacks during his 8
>>years in office.
>
> You could've equally well say that the British PM Baldwin dealt
> exceptionally well with the Nazi threat since no Briton died from
> German attacks during his years in office.
>
> Ignorance of history,
Discredit
> lack of understanding of long term processes,
Discredit
> short attention span.
Discredit
You're not worth a further comment.
Dismiss
Suck you own dick all the time?
Lapp...@aol.com
Nick wrote:
> Bush is only the inheritor of what Clinton did to America.
>
> Everything about his presidency was a lie. And you're a lie lover.
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu
attention. I hope your mom admires your arguing skills, since I doubt
anybody else will. So long.
tdp...@gmail.com
It is interesting to see that most folks
don't comprehend that the Class Wars are over,
( Left vs Right, Republicans vs Democrats, etc.)
and that the same gang that instigated the Class Wars of the 1900's,
is instigating the Religious Wars of the 2000's.
The gang that instigated the class wars of the 1900's,
migrated to Israel and New York,
after the Native Russians regained control of their government,
and they are using Israel and New York as bases
from where to instigate the religious wars of the 2000's,
as the loot from their class wars is almost gone.
As can be seen,
Bush is a willing participant in the war-for-profit and power game,
just as FDR was.
If FDR had gone after the war-for-profit gang
rather than getting in bed with them,
WWII would has lasted two months, and there would have been
no millions of deaths, no holocaust, no Cold War, no Korea, no Vietnam
, no nuclear weapons, no instigation of global religious war, etc.
If Bush had gone after the war-for-profit gang,
rather than getting in bed with them and Sharon,
there would have been no 911, no movement of America
toward a police and military state,
no loss of freedoms to Americans,
no danger to American's at home and abroad,
no shattering of the national budget,
no war on the Iraqi people,
with its' attendant cost, depletion of
non-renewable resources, environmental damage, etc,
no loss of trust by most nations of the world,
no hatred of America by hundreds of millions of Muslims,
no raid on Social Security,
no bankruptcy of major airlines,
no dollar flight,
no meltdown of the dollar,
no meltdown of America,
no weakening of the United Nations,
no weakening of NATO,
etc.
The major weakness of a democracy,
is that immoral, profiteering, manipulators
can effectively buy the government at a low price,
by finding politicians like Bush, Clinton, FDR, Blair, etc.
and giving them the financial and media support
they need to rise above the pack.
As Philip, Alexander the Great's father said,
"There are no city walls so strong,
that they cannot be breached,
if you can get a donkey load of gold up to the wall."
The same is true with a democracy such as America has,
and immoral manipulators steal gold from the masses,
and use the gold to buy more politicians.
So guys, wise up.
Get with the program.
Quit fighting the Class Wars, and
get with the Religious Wars.
You are now being conditioned to
hate folks based on their religion,
rather than based on their class.
Don't be so dense.
tdp...@gmail.com
As can be seen,
Harry Hyena hanson
posts his regular boilerplate lies and insults,
as he always does when I point out that
a small gang instigated the Class Wars of the 1900's,
and that the same gang is instigating the Religious Wars of the 2000's.
Could it be that Harry Hyena hanson
is one of the War-For-Profit Gang,
or is he a Fellow Traveller,
or simply a dupe, like most folks who
are conditioned by the War-For-Profit media?
But that aside,
what makes people, like Harry Hyena hanson,
attack messengers with lies and personal attacks,
rather than addressing messages
in a rational, intelligent, moral, civilized way????
Is it nature (Genetic),
or is it nurture (Home, religion, environment)????
It would make for an interesting scientific study
to isolate the characteristics of the people
on the Internet who personally attack folks
in order to silence or discredit them.
Hopefully Google will add this
( Identifying the personal attackers.)
to the bag of tricks in the near future,
and it would be useful for Google to
allow users to ignore the posts
of these personal attackers.
Not only would be useful for readers to know who
attacks messengers rather than address messages,
but it would be helpful for voters and politicans
to understand the demographics of immoral, dishonest people,
so they can be prepared.
To be forewarned,
is to be prepared.
tdp...@gmail.com
Rome didn't rot,
it self-distructed.
Rome was at its' heights before Julian attacked Persia.
Julian had stabilized northern Europe,
and in fact the best part of his army were Germans and Franks.
Persia had learned a lesson from their loss to
Alexander the Great, and they destroyed the Roman army by
not allowing them to live off the land.
They poisoned wells, destroyed food stocks,
and burned all fodder that could be used by the Romans
to feed their horses. The Romans had to resort to
eating their dying horses, and they retreated in disgrace
after Julian was killed, and yielded Armenia to Persia.
The Romans were brought down,
not by follow up from the victorious Persians,
but because they lost the respect of the world,
and many small nations and groups began to
nibble away at them.
IMMEDIATELY after the defeat of Julian's army.
Note that Bush has set the whole world into
nibbling away at America.
China and Russia are holding joint military exercises.
President Hugo Chávez of Venezuela will be looking for
other customers for his oil.
Europe and China are building their own GPS systems.
All nations are rearming and forming new alliances.
Bush made the same mistake that Julian and Croseus did.
He had little to gain by attacking Iraq,
and much to lose.
VRWC Destruction Machine
>Bush is a complete idiot.
>
>Before he took office,
>America had the world by the ass.
>
>Almost all of the world respected, trusted, admired and emulated
>America.
>
Now it's all jealousy. The world body will be able to emulate the EU's
double digit unemployment, Africa's famine, the Middle East's
Ilamo-Fascism and Asia's dictatorships.
>In less than two years, Bush destroyed that, and
>now he has all the nations of the world,
>rearming, forming new alliances, finding new sources for American
>products, etc.
>
>Considering Bush's hostility toward the United Nations,
>and the cost of all the nations maintaining staffs
>in New York, and the cost of updating the U.N. facilities,
>I suggest that if China offered to build a new complex in Pudong
>that the majority of the world would enthusiatically back the idea.
>
Good riddance. Now China can deal with diplomats screaming diplomatic
immunity and unpaid parking tickets.
>If the United Nations moves to China, China will reap enormous
>financial and political power benefits, and will become the
>communications center and power broker of the future,
>while. America will become isolated from the rest of the world,
>and drift into a more agricultural state.
>( As America loses markets, and financial and political power,
>and has to genuflect to the oil providers to stay afloat.)
>
The U.N. being in the United States has never benefited America. It
will be good if the U.N. moves to China. The U.N. will be able to
experience China's tolerance first hand.
>It is interesting to observe that Croesus caused the downfall of his
>kingdom by invading Persia, and Emperor Julian caused the downfall of
>Rome by attacking Persia, and Bush has set the stage for the demise of
>America by doing the same.
>
A leftist hope.
>All had little to gain and much to lose, by their actions,
>and their insane, egotistical, emotionally driven acts
>destroyed what their societies took centuries to build.
-
"Liberals become indignant when you question their patriotism,
but simultaneously work overtime to give terrorists a cushion
or the next attack and laugh at dumb Americans who love their
country and hate the enemy."
-Ann Coulter July 3, 2002
jmfb...@aol.com
>"Polish Prince (Szynka)" <wawrz...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
>news:WkdPe.132550$5N3.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>> Clinton done nothing positive for this country during his administration.
>> A matter of fact, through his dealings with the PRC, he has made us very
>> vulnerable. He ignored the threat of Radical Islamist Terrorism. Many
>> attacks against Americans , both at home and abroad, occurred on his
>> watch.
>>
>> I actually thought that GW would come riding in on a white horse and save
>> the day.
>>
>> "Nick" <macro...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1124949224.5...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>> Bush is only the inheritor of what Clinton did to America.
>>>
>>> Everything about his presidency was a lie. And you're a lie lover.
>
>Clinton dealt with the terrorism threat exceptionally well during his
>Presidency. Very few Americans died from terrorist attacks during his 8
>years in office.
We haven't seen the real impact of Clinton's mess. There will
be body counts in the future that will be tracked back to his
irresponsible actions.
> ..Bush screwed up royally, and 3000 Americans died. That Bush
>is worse than Clinton at fighting terrorism is self-evident.
Why do you keep blaming Bush? I blame the people who did
the killing and disruption of trade.
/BAH
Chuck Feney
>If the United Nations moves to China, China will reap enormous
>financial and political power benefits, and will become the
>communications center and power broker of the future,
>while. America will become isolated from the rest of the world,
>and drift into a more agricultural state.
The forecast is true regardless of the location of the UN. The
Chinese communists and the American corporatists are working hand in
glove to move American jobs from the US to China and other countries
within China's sphere of influence.
>( As America loses markets, and financial and political power,
>and has to genuflect to the oil providers to stay afloat.)
Lose markets? What markets?
How long can Americans go on selling each other high-priced cups of
coffee, monster burgers and transfat-laden fries, paid for with money
borrowed from China?
Tom B. Stone
news:pucrg11ftsrslsuji...@4ax.com:
> On 24 Aug 2005 22:21:17 -0700, tdp...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>Bush is a complete idiot.
>
> And yet you lose, constantly, to Bush. What does that say about you?
> --
> A mime is a terrible thing to baste.
Moreover, what does it say about the American electorate that would put
such a complete moron and his croneies in a position of power and let them
totally screw country into the ground.
Schoenfeld
Chuck Feney wrote:
> tdp...@gmail.com wrote:
> >If the United Nations moves to China, China will reap enormous
> >financial and political power benefits, and will become the
> >communications center and power broker of the future,
> >while. America will become isolated from the rest of the world,
> >and drift into a more agricultural state.
>
> The forecast is true regardless of the location of the UN. The
> Chinese communists and the American corporatists are working hand in
> glove to move American jobs from the US to China and other countries
> within China's sphere of influence.
You make that sound like a bad thing. Sure it could be bad, but are you
prepared to accept a world where US relies only on itself? No cheap
energy, no cheap electronics, no SUVs, no aristrocratic lifestyle whos'
sole purpose is the acquisition of ones immediate pleasures. Of course
not. You can't have it both ways, either you live it up now and let
your kids pay or you pay now and let your kids prosper - "Principle of
least action".
> >( As America loses markets, and financial and political power,
> >and has to genuflect to the oil providers to stay afloat.)
>
> Lose markets? What markets?
> How long can Americans go on selling each other high-priced cups of
> coffee, monster burgers and transfat-laden fries, paid for with money
> borrowed from China?
Surprisingly long. China has massive stake in this structure - chinese
wouldn't hand over $2.3 billion/day otherwise. Of course, when they
decide they no longer deem fit to expend their human resources for the
benefit of the US consumer then there will be some issues (big ones).
hanson
maker and terrorist instigator complains about boiler plates in message
news:1124962996....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
news:1124947277....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> > Bush is a complete idiot.
>> > Tom Potter
>> >
>> ... (1) "as can be seen",
>>
> As can be seen, Harry Hyena hanson
> posts his regular boilerplate lies and insults,
>
... ahahaha... AHAHAHA... "as can be seen" Tom-Tom, you
try to shake it off, weasel and wish to cover up and deny that
you have uttered terrorist threats against the Prez, and that
you are too CHICKENSHIT to make an apology. Here is the
story again for your benefit:
news:1zdPe.1001$Wd7...@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
hanson
>> >If the United Nations moves to China, China will reap enormous
>> >financial and political power benefits, and will become the
>> >communications center and power broker of the future,
>> >while. America will become isolated from the rest of the world,
>> >and drift into a more agricultural state.
>>
>> The forecast is true regardless of the location of the UN. The
>> Chinese communists and the American corporatists are working hand in
>> glove to move American jobs from the US to China and other countries
>> within China's sphere of influence.
>
> You make that sound like a bad thing. Sure it could be bad, but are you
> prepared to accept a world where US relies only on itself? No cheap
> energy, no cheap electronics, no SUVs, no aristrocratic lifestyle whos'
> sole purpose is the acquisition of ones immediate pleasures. Of course
> not. You can't have it both ways, either you live it up now and let
> your kids pay or you pay now and let your kids prosper - "Principle of
> least action".
>
>> >( As America loses markets, and financial and political power,
>> >and has to genuflect to the oil providers to stay afloat.)
>>
>> Lose markets? What markets?
>> How long can Americans go on selling each other high-priced cups of
>> coffee, monster burgers and transfat-laden fries, paid for with money
>> borrowed from China?
>
> Surprisingly long. China has massive stake in this structure - chinese
> wouldn't hand over $2.3 billion/day otherwise. Of course, when they
> decide they no longer deem fit to expend their human resources for the
> benefit of the US consumer then there will be some issues (big ones).
>
ahahaha... AHAHAHA... look at those three pinko-green
class 3 enviros, beatoff artists jerking each other off...
with their Left hands. AHAHAHA.... and cuming over each
other in their mental masturbations with orgasmic ejaculations
of hatred and doom for the US... ... AHAHA.. ahahaha....
ahahaha.... ahahanson
PS:
Modern, attributal definitions of enviro classifications:
Class (1)
Green shit(s): ...are the ones who advocate, promote,
support, legalize, institute and extort the permit charges,
the user fees, the enviro surtaxes and the CO2/Carbon tax,
all reflected in HIGHER PRICES of goods and services!,
and being responsible for much of the OUT-SOURCING!
Class (2)
Green turd(s):... are the ones who are recipients and
beneficiaries from the lootings of (1), directly or indirectly.
Class (3)
Little green idiot(s):.. are the unpaid, well-meaning ones
who think they do something for the "environment", when in
fact they are only the enablers and facilitators for (2) who
are harvesting the green $$$ that (1) has extorted.
hanson
news:8varg19ud3peuqr8j...@4ax.com...
> On 24 Aug 2005 Tom-Tom CrackPotter tdp...@gmail.com wrote:
>>Bush is a complete idiot.
>>Before he took office,
>>America had the world by the ass.
>>Almost all of the world respected, trusted, admired
>>and emulated America.
>>
> Now it's all jealousy. The world body will be able to emulate
> the EU's double digit unemployment, Africa's famine, the
> Middle East's Ilamo-Fascism and Asia's dictatorships.
> "Liberals become indignant when you question their patriotism,
> but simultaneously work overtime to give terrorists a cushion
> or the next attack and laugh at dumb Americans who love their
> country and hate the enemy."
> -Ann Coulter July 3, 2002
>
Excellent comment and great quote, Rudy.
CrackPotter is a retired American expatriate
who lives in China and has such a hard-on
because he lost some of his 401K retirement
$$ after the dot com meltdown. Now, he blames
Bush for it.... ahahaha... AHAHAHAHA... and
cranks himself so bad that he uttered terrorist
threats against Bush, but his money never came
back.... ahahaha... and that still worms Tom, the
old geezer, to no end... AHAHAHA... ahahaha...
ahaha.. ahahanson
Richard Henry
<jmfb...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:dek7st$8qk...@s837.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com...
>
> We haven't seen the real impact of Clinton's mess. There will
> be body counts in the future that will be tracked back to his
> irresponsible actions.
Which irresponsible actions did you have in mind?
Uncle Al
[snip]
> If the United Nations moves to China, China will reap enormous
> financial and political power benefits, and will become the
> communications center and power broker of the future,
[snip]
> Tom Potter
Idiot. Unpaid parking tickets alone will topple PR China. No
bureaucrat will abandon New York City wherein every sin and pleasure
known to man is available for price - and fervid research is
progressing toward new ones. Hey idiot Potter - ya ever walk down
Canal Street looking at the wares?
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
Robert Kolker
For one, not nailing Osama bin Laden when he had the chance. Also
ignoring intelligence indicating the attack on the U.S.S. Cole. The Bush
administration is not the only one that screw up in using intelligence.
The America Clinton promoted was Fat Dumb and Happy. Now we are no
longer Happy.
Bob Kolker
Schoenfeld
You speak as if you matter.
d...@dan.com
news:1aqdnS0Ifqm...@comcast.com...
Bush isn't interested in catching Osama any more, but you're going to blame
anything Osama does on Clinton. Uh-huh.
Richard Henry
>
> > <jmfb...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:dek7st$8qk...@s837.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com...
> >
> >>We haven't seen the real impact of Clinton's mess. There will
> >>be body counts in the future that will be tracked back to his
> >>irresponsible actions.
> >
> >
> > Which irresponsible actions did you have in mind?
>
> For one, not nailing Osama bin Laden when he had the chance. Also
> ignoring intelligence indicating the attack on the U.S.S. Cole. The Bush
> administration is not the only one that screw up in using intelligence.
From the General Tommy Franks, CIC Central Command, after the Cole attack:
http://news.findlaw.com/cnn/docs/crs/coleterrattck13001.pdf
The terrorism threat is endemic in the AOR, and USCENTCOM takes extensive
measures to protect our forces.... The threat situation was monitored
regularly in
Yemen and throughout the AOR. The intelligence community and USCENTCOM
consider this AOR a High Threat environment, and our assessments of the
regional
threat and the threat in Yemen were consistent in their evaluation. We had
conducted
a number of threat assessments in the port, and throughout the area.
However, leading
up to the attack on USS Cole on 12 October, we received no specific threat
information
for Yemen or for the port of Aden that would cause us to change our
assessment. Had
such warning been received, action would have been taken by the operating
forces in
response to the warning.
Lots of double-speak there. I'm not sure if that supports your point or
not.
Chance Hopkins
<mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
news:wPfPe.27$e5....@news.uchicago.edu...
Can't respond? THought so. Go ahead and put your fingers in your ears.
Schoenfeld
Kolker's been taking his history lessons from Fox News again.
> Bob Kolker
d...@dan.com
<mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
news:0fePe.25$e5....@news.uchicago.edu...
> In article <et6dnQxMWqD...@comcast.com>, <d...@dan.com> writes:
>>"Polish Prince (Szynka)" <wawrz...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
>>news:WkdPe.132550$5N3.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>> Clinton done nothing positive for this country during his
>>> administration.
>>> A matter of fact, through his dealings with the PRC, he has made us very
>>> vulnerable. He ignored the threat of Radical Islamist Terrorism. Many
>>> attacks against Americans , both at home and abroad, occurred on his
>>> watch.
>>>
>>> I actually thought that GW would come riding in on a white horse and
>>> save
>>> the day.
>>>
>>> "Nick" <macro...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1124949224.5...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>> Bush is only the inheritor of what Clinton did to America.
>>>>
>>>> Everything about his presidency was a lie. And you're a lie lover.
>>
>>Clinton dealt with the terrorism threat exceptionally well during his
>>Presidency. Very few Americans died from terrorist attacks during his 8
>>years in office.
>
> You could've equally well say that the British PM Baldwin dealt
> exceptionally well with the Nazi threat since no Briton died from
> German attacks during his years in office.
And here I thought Nazis and Islamic terrorists were two separate entities
in two entirely different time periods. Clinton protected America, and
warned Bush. Bush got the memo that said "Bin Laden determined to strike
within the United States." Bush's inaction on that report led to 3000 dead.
That cannot be pinned on Clinton, no matter how many times you righties
try - Bush was warned. And if we're going to go into the whole blame-game, a
President isn't responsbile for what happens on his watch, who the fuck
created Osama in the first place? That's right, the lovely duo of Reagan and
Bush in the 80s. Which kinda puts your "Ignorance of history" comment in
perspective. But Democrats believe the President, the current President, is
responsible for taking care of what happens on his watch. I mean, hell, are
we going to start blaming Truman or Eisenhower for our problems with Kim
Jong Ill? LOL.
> Ignorance of history, lack of understanding of long term processes,
> short attention span. You're not worth a further comment.
When you move form argument to ad hominem to justify that you don't feel
able to argue further, I know you're a reich-winger.
hanson
news:1124986780.2...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> You speak as if you matter.
>
Here it is again for your engorgement into your very own
gauche malheur sans honeur to promote your self-cranking:
news:6nkPe.1962$z2....@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
PS:
Crash
Clinton was a worthless fraud - agreed - but considering that the
current sitting President has publicly joked about looking under his
desk for WMDs after he launched a war justified by the immediate threat
of "mushroom clouds over Washington", Clinton is not the biggest or
worst liar of a President that we have ever had...
Clinton lied about getting a honker in the oval office... Bush's lied
to instigate a war that has killed more than 20,000 people... IMHO
there is a slight difference of scale and severity between the two...
Androcles
Androcles
"Crash" <sourc...@san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1124998948....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Mamamia
Yeah, considering that the previous devious fraud left us with money in
the bank.....while the immediate deviant fraud leaves us with debt, a
war that's sucking even more money that we don't even have, and sticks
it to the bent-over poor & middle classes while he gives all the pillage
to his rich buds.
I'd prefer the previous devious fraud any day out of the week.
Looking under his desk for WMD's was a joke?
--
Bush said: 'God...instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did.'
So, like, did God LIE to the Pope about war in Iraq?
mark...@yahoo.com
> Bush is a complete idiot.
The partisan topicality of the 00's, that you conservi-liberal
lefto-rightist Demopublican extremists like to bandy about and to try
and railroad the rest of us normal folk into, is irrelevant. The
United Nations is as obsolete as the League of Nations and is becoming
dangerously so as time goes on.
The End of the UN
The World Federation and Future Civilization
http://federation.g3z.com/FedSeries/Lydia.htm
Billy
<d...@dan.com> wrote in message news:gMSdnbia6_L...@comcast.com...
> They have no power when one of their principal members, the US, has an
> administration that shows nothing but contempt for the very idea of the
> UN. They have done plenty of positive things, but they require good faith
> cooperation of nations in order to be effective.
>
What good things have they done, not counting giving the US's money away?
> "Billy" <neve...@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:XHdPe.41315$Ji4.40562@fed1read03...
>> They can move to Mars and be just as useful as they are now.
>>
>>
>
>
tdp...@gmail.com
What makes people lie
and personally attack messengers
rather than address messages
in a rational, intelligent, moral way?
Is it nature (Genetics),
or is it nurture (Unbringing, religion, etc.)????
I trust that one of these days,
Google will provide a feature that identifies
the liars, bushwhackers, cheap shot artists,
and other dishonest people,
and even provides an indication of what
motivates such sociopathic behavior.
--
Tom Potter
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp
http://photos.yahoo.com/tdp1001
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
tdp...@gmail.com
Uncle Al wrote:
> tdp...@gmail.com wrote:
> [snip]
>
> > If the United Nations moves to China, China will reap enormous
> > financial and political power benefits, and will become the
> > communications center and power broker of the future,
> [snip]
>
> > Tom Potter
>
> Idiot. Unpaid parking tickets alone will topple PR China. No
> bureaucrat will abandon New York City wherein every sin and pleasure
> known to man is available for price - and fervid research is
> progressing toward new ones. Hey idiot Potter - ya ever walk down
> Canal Street looking at the wares?
When I lived on Bourbon Street,
I used to "talk" to the "wares" in the joints, and
I took the streetcar down Canal Street many times.
The b girls and the strippers used to buy me drinks,
as we had great conversations.
BTW, where can you get a good foot massage
or see the Beijing Opera, or a great acrobat troup,
or get a dinner of snakes, snails, bee larva, Peking duck, etc.
in New York City?
China - where parking and
"every sin and pleasure known to man
is available <at a decent> price."
[ Think about that, United Nations officials!!! ]
tdp...@gmail.com
Well, get on board markwh04!
Start working to get the United Nations
to move to Pudong.
If the United Nations is irrelevant,
I assume that you would like to see
America out of it,
and it relocated somewhere else.
I just spent a few days in Vienna,
and they like their U.N. facilities very much.
tdp...@gmail.com
Billy wrote:
> They can move to Mars and be just as useful as they are now.
Well, get on board Billy!
tdp...@gmail.com
VRWC Destruction Machine wrote:
> >America had the world by the ass.
> >
> >Almost all of the world respected, trusted, admired and emulated
> >America.
> >
> double digit unemployment, Africa's famine, the Middle East's
> Ilamo-Fascism and Asia's dictatorships.
>
> >now he has all the nations of the world,
> >rearming, forming new alliances, finding new sources for American
> >products, etc.
> >
> >Considering Bush's hostility toward the United Nations,
> >and the cost of all the nations maintaining staffs
> >in New York, and the cost of updating the U.N. facilities,
> >I suggest that if China offered to build a new complex in Pudong
> >that the majority of the world would enthusiatically back the idea.
> >
> immunity and unpaid parking tickets.
Well, get on board VRWC Destruction Machine!
Start working to get the United Nations
to move to Pudong.
If the United Nations is irrelevant,
I assume that you would like to see
America out of it,
and it relocated somewhere else.
I just spent a few days in Vienna,
and they like their U.N. facilities very much.
And hopefully VRWC Destruction Machine will name the
"Middle East Ilamo-Fascists and Asia dictators"
who are more dogmatic and unilateral
than George Bush, or anyone who has done more
to fuck up their nation and other nations
as much as George Bush has.
I must point out that VRWC Destruction Machine
has been completely brainwashed by the
gang that instigates war-for profit and power.
As can be seen, she does not comprehend that
the same gang that instigated the Class Wars of the 1900's,
( Communists/leftists/etc.)
are instigating the Religious wars of the 2000's
( "Middle East Ilamo-Fascists", etc.)
and laying the ground work for
instigating the race wars if their Religious wars don't pan out
( Asia dictators ).
There are many forms of government
and all can be either good or bad.
In fact, one form evolves into another.
Democracies are co-opted by charlatans,
and evolve into dictatorships.
Dictatorships evolve into royalty,
and royalties evolved into republican forms,
where power is shared among a number of people.
The war-for-profit gang does not care
what the differences are between folks,
they will exploit ANY difference
if they can profit from it.
Get with the program VRWC Destruction Machine.
The Class Wars are over.
You are now being conditioned to hate
folks because of the race and religion.
Crash
Agree on Clinton comments; and FYI I HATE Hillary!!!!
>Bush acted in the honest belief
>that Hussein was hiding WMDs and there was a risk that he would
>transfer the technology to terrorists or other rogue nations hostile
>to the US.
>
I disagree on this point. It is common knowledge that prior to 9/11
this Administration had discussed ways to go into Iraq on multiple
occasions. In "Plan of Attack" Bob Woodward QUOTES Bush as complaining
that the data on Iraq was 'thin'. There is NO presedent in history for
the Vice President "visiting" with the CIA TWICE prior to compiling the
"Chinese Menu" of evidence that was handed to to Powell for his U.N.
briefing. Powell and his aides spent 4 days arguing with the CIA on
evidence sited in the "menu" before he briefed the U.N. because they
thought the case was 'thin'. The administration fired the general who
told them that they would need 300,000+ troops and then sent Wolfowitz
to the hill to testify that the thing could be done with 60,000 troops,
would be over in a few months, and that Iraqi oil would pay for it
all... Nope, a lot of people in all the right places knew better
before this thing got started - they were ignored or mowed down.
At this point the President is making public jokes about the WMD
argument. Paul Wolfowitz has come out publicly and stated that the
only reason the WMD argument was made was because "we thought it had
the best chance of sticking". WTF else do you need for you to consider
that perhaps, maybe, the current President has moral character equal to
Clinton and that our motivations for going into Iraq had NOTHING to do
with 9/11 and everything to do with an agenda to which us lowly
taxpayers are not privy?
Billy
<d...@dan.com> wrote in message news:aYSdncb6MP9...@comcast.com...
LOL Bin Laden went on national TV in 1997 and said "The U.S. will drive
them to transfer the battle into the United States",and he praised the
terrorist killings to date."
"I have great respect for the people who did this action," bin Laden told
CNN. "What they did is a great job and a big honor I missed participating
in."
What did Clinton do for those three years, oh thats right he had someone
write a memo.
Billy
<tdp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1125021668.0...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> Billy wrote:
>> They can move to Mars and be just as useful as they are now.
>
> Well, get on board Billy!
>
> Start working to get the United Nations
> to move to Pudong.
>
> If the United Nations is irrelevant,
> I assume that you would like to see
> America out of it,
> and it relocated somewhere else.
Dont let the door him them in the ass on the way out.
>
> I just spent a few days in Vienna,
> and they like their U.N. facilities very much.
I guess they do since they get America to pay for 25% of everything, they
pay less than one precent. The purpose of the whole damn place is to get
money from America tax payers
tdp...@gmail.com
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
> In article <et6dnQxMWqD...@comcast.com>, <d...@dan.com> writes:
> >"Polish Prince (Szynka)" <wawrz...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> >news:WkdPe.132550$5N3.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> >> Clinton done nothing positive for this country during his administration.
> >> A matter of fact, through his dealings with the PRC, he has made us very
> >> vulnerable. He ignored the threat of Radical Islamist Terrorism. Many
> >> attacks against Americans , both at home and abroad, occurred on his
> >> watch.
> >>
> >> I actually thought that GW would come riding in on a white horse and save
> >> the day.
> >>
> >> "Nick" <macro...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1124949224.5...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >>> Bush is only the inheritor of what Clinton did to America.
> >>>
> >>> Everything about his presidency was a lie. And you're a lie lover.
> >
> >Clinton dealt with the terrorism threat exceptionally well during his
> >Presidency. Very few Americans died from terrorist attacks during his 8
> >years in office.
>
> You could've equally well say that the British PM Baldwin dealt
> exceptionally well with the Nazi threat since no Briton died from
> German attacks during his years in office.
Mati Meron makes a good point!
If FDR and Churchill had not sold out to
the gang that was instigating the Class Wars of the 1900's,
WWII would has lasted two months, and there would have been
no millions of deaths, no holocaust, no Cold War, no Korea, no Vietnam
,
no nuclear weapons, no instigation of global religious war, etc.
As can be seen,
the same gang that instigated the Class Wars of the 1900's
are instigating the Religious Wars of the 2000's,
to get back in the chips as the loot from their Class Wars
is almost gone.
Bush is a willing participant in the war-for-profit and power game,
just as FDR was.
If Bush had gone after the war-for-profit gang,
rather than getting in bed with them and Sharon,
there would have been no 9/11, no movement of America
toward a police and military state,
no loss of freedoms to Americans,
no danger to American's at home and abroad,
no shattering of the national budget,
no war on the Iraqi people,
with its' attendant cost, depletion of
non-renewable resources, environmental damage, etc,
no loss of trust by most nations of the world,
no hatred of America by hundreds of millions of Muslims,
no raid on Social Security,
no bankruptcy of major airlines,
no dollar flight,
no meltdown of the dollar,
no meltdown of America,
no weakening of the United Nations,
no weakening of NATO,
etc.
The major weakness of a democracy,
is that immoral, profiteering, manipulators
can effectively buy the government at a low price,
by finding politicians like Bush, Clinton, FDR, Blair, etc.
and giving them the financial and media support
they need to rise above the pack.
As Philip, Alexander the Great's father said,
"There are no city walls so strong,
that they cannot be breached,
if you can get a donkey load of gold up to the wall."
The same is true with a democracy such as America has,
and immoral manipulators steal gold from the masses,
and use the gold to buy more politicians.
tdp...@gmail.com
Or someone who sympathises with
the gang trying to instigate religious war
between Christians and Muslims.
As can be seen
the same gang that instigated the
Class Wars of the 1900's
migrated to New York and Israel (And Chicago),
after their Class Wars were discredited,
and the Native Russians regained control of their government,
and they are using these places as bases from which to
instigate the Religious Wars of the 2000's.
The question is:
Which side is Mati on?
Christians, Muslims, or outside agitating?????
It would be interesting to see
which group has more people in key places
in American government and defense industries,
and in the mass media.
tdp...@gmail.com
hanson wrote:
> CrackPotter Tom-Tom <tdp...@gmail.com> the original boiler plate
> maker and terrorist instigator complains about boiler plates in message
> news:1124962996....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> news:1124947277....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >> > Bush is a complete idiot.
> >> >
> >> [hanson's predictions for Potter]
> >> ... (1) "as can be seen",
> >>
> [Boiler plate Potter did as predicted]
> > As can be seen, Harry Hyena hanson
> > posts his regular boilerplate lies and insults,
> >
> [hanson]
> ... ahahaha... AHAHAHA... "as can be seen" Tom-Tom, you
> try to shake it off, weasel and wish to cover up and deny that
> you have uttered terrorist threats against the Prez, and that
> you are too CHICKENSHIT to make an apology.
I suggest that Harry Hyena hanson
is too IMMORAL and DISHONEST to apologize for
his persistent personal attacks, his threats,
and his constant lying.
Harry Hyena hanson gets all bent out of shape,
and goes ballistic, and spews the same boilerplate
lies, insults and threats, any time I point out
that the same gang that instigated the
Class Wars of the 1900's,
are trying to instigate the Religious Wars of the 2000's,
to get back in the chips as the loop from
their Class Wars is almost gone.
And note that Harry Hyena hanson
tries to intimidate me and others
by asserting that the new head of Homeland Security,
who is a Rabbi's son, will go after non-Jews.
Could it be that Harry Hyena hanson
is a member of the War-for_Profit gang,
or a fellow traveller of the gang,
or expects to benefit from their henious works?????
Or could it be that Harry Hyena hanson agrees with me,
and encourages me to post the message
he wants folks to hear?
I think that Harry Hyena hanson has joined with me
in trying to put the spotlight
on the gang that instigates conflict and war
for profit and power.
Thanks Harry!
It's you and me against the mass media.
( And the politicians who have sold out to the war-for-profit gang.)
jmfb...@aol.com
You need to read more history; there is a direct connection.
I'm currently learning about more mess that wasn't cleaned
up at the end of WWII. I'm appalled.
<snip>
/BAH
VRWC Destruction Machine
I've mentioned in past responses and posts the U.N. is irrelevant
since the a lot of its members are not Democratic Republics and
anti-USA.
>I just spent a few days in Vienna,
>and they like their U.N. facilities very much.
>
They can have it.
>And hopefully VRWC Destruction Machine will name the
>"Middle East Ilamo-Fascists and Asia dictators"
>who are more dogmatic and unilateral
>than George Bush, or anyone who has done more
>to fuck up their nation and other nations
>as much as George Bush has.
>
Did you just fall off the turnip truck?
Haven't ever heard of Iran, Syria, Libya, North Korea, Vietnam, Red
China, Cambodia or other countries?
You assert you are a worldly person because you spent a few days in
Vienna. Compare President Bush with today's dictators .
>I must point out that VRWC Destruction Machine
>has been completely brainwashed by the
>gang that instigates war-for profit and power.
>
How so?
>As can be seen, she does not comprehend that
>the same gang that instigated the Class Wars of the 1900's,
>( Communists/leftists/etc.)
>are instigating the Religious wars of the 2000's
>( "Middle East Ilamo-Fascists", etc.)
>and laying the ground work for
>instigating the race wars if their Religious wars don't pan out
>( Asia dictators ).
>
>There are many forms of government
>and all can be either good or bad.
>In fact, one form evolves into another.
>
>Democracies are co-opted by charlatans,
>and evolve into dictatorships.
>
>Dictatorships evolve into royalty,
>and royalties evolved into republican forms,
>where power is shared among a number of people.
>
>The war-for-profit gang does not care
>what the differences are between folks,
>they will exploit ANY difference
>if they can profit from it.
>
>Get with the program VRWC Destruction Machine.
>The Class Wars are over.
>You are now being conditioned to hate
>folks because of the race and religion.
I'm curious. What planet do you live on?
VRWC Destruction Machine
>
>mark...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> tdp...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > Bush is a complete idiot.
>>
>> The partisan topicality of the 00's, that you conservi-liberal
>> lefto-rightist Demopublican extremists like to bandy about and to try
>> and railroad the rest of us normal folk into, is irrelevant. The
>> United Nations is as obsolete as the League of Nations and is becoming
>> dangerously so as time goes on.
>>
>> The End of the UN
>> The World Federation and Future Civilization
>> http://federation.g3z.com/FedSeries/Lydia.htm
>
>Well, get on board markwh04!
>
>Start working to get the United Nations
>to move to Pudong.
>
>If the United Nations is irrelevant,
>I assume that you would like to see
>America out of it,
>and it relocated somewhere else.
>
>I just spent a few days in Vienna,
>and they like their U.N. facilities very much.
Are we supposed to be impressed?
mark...@yahoo.com
> I assume that you would like to see
> America out of it,
> > The End of the UN
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu
of WWI, as well as those which were created in the cleanup attempt.
We're still trying to wrap up WWI.
But you miss the point in the above. In the context of what I wrote
it doesn't (repeat, it *****doesn't*****) matter whether there is a
connection. Totally, utterly irrelevant. What you've, is *the same*
situation, of a threat developing over time, being ignored, until
eventually the shit hits the fan. It wouldn't have mattered in the
least, for the example, if we would've chosen for comparison an
instance of a Roman emperor ignoring the growing power of some
barbarian tribe, with his successor being forced by events to deal
with the issue. Am I making myself clear enough? The inability to
perceive similarity of situations is a sign of a very feeble mind.
And, for the record, no, it is not that I'm trying to blame Clinton
here. "Blaming" is Monday morning quarterbacking, in general. After
untoward events happen, everybody and his uncle is eager to point out
that "if only such and such was done at such and such time, all this
mess could've been prevented." Well, duh.
The fact of the matter is that Islamic extremism was a growing menace
since the late 70s but it was not considered in the West as anything
more than small nuisance till 9/11. All the administrations during
this time frame saw it as, at most, a law enforcement issue. So,
precious little was done. Sure, committees were at times formed,
memos sent, declarations and recommendations issued, etc., but that's
not action, just going through the motions. Nobody was about to
engage in acton involving significant effort and the expenditure of
significant political capital (not to mention real capital) absent a
perception of urgency, and this perception just wasn't there.
So, I'm not about to single Clinton for blame. But I'm also not about
to buy moronic statements along the lines of "Clinton kept us safe,
Bush didn't" because these are the exact equivalent of somebody in
Britain, 50 years ago, claiming that "Baldwin kept us safe, Churchill
didn't".
hanson
news:1125020320.4...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> What makes people lie and personally attack messengers
> rather than address messages in a rational, intelligent,
> moral way?
>
.... ahahaha... But, that is your own legacy, Tom-Tom:
= "Potter, who forgot what he said and then he gets irate
when the messengers remind him about his own words" =
---- Potter, I am not the first and only who has noticed that
your perception and reporting of reality is highly self serving...
it in all probability being the product of you being so old and
so far gone that you don't know any longer that you lie and
when you lie... ahahaha.... AHAHAHA.... ahahaha....
>
[Tom-Tom agonizes in his fervent hope]
> I trust that one of these days, Google will provide a feature
> that identifies the liars, bushwhackers, cheap shot artists,
> and other dishonest people, and even provides an indication
> of what motivates such sociopathic behavior.
>
[hanson]
ahaha... AHAHA... now, that is a true Potterian gem... ahaha..
Tom-Tom, be careful what you wish for, Potter.... ahahaha...
It will be **YOU** who will be heading that list of your dreams....
No ifs, no buts.... ahahahaha... ahahaha...
Thanks for the laughs, you geriatric pinko,
ahahaha... ahahanson
hanson
has come for therapy to hanson and he even thanks hanson for having
administered to him, Tom-Tom, so patiently... even if Potter remains still
a 2-faced pinko turd of very low albedo......
>> CrackPotter Tom-Tom <tdp...@gmail.com> the original boiler plate
>> maker and terrorist instigator complains about boiler plates in message
news:1124962996....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
news:1124947277....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> >> > Bush is a complete idiot.
>> >> > Tom Potter
>> >> >
>> >> [hanson's predictions for Potter]
>> >> ... (1) "as can be seen",
>> >>
>> > As can be seen, Harry Hyena hanson
>> > posts his regular boilerplate lies and insults,
>> >
>> [hanson]
>> ... ahahaha... AHAHAHA... "as can be seen" Tom-Tom, you
>> try to shake it off, weasel and wish to cover up and deny that
>> you have uttered terrorist threats against the Prez, and that
>> you are too CHICKENSHIT to make an apology.
>
> I suggest that Harry Hyena hanson is too IMMORAL
> and DISHONEST to apologize for his persistent
> personal attacks, his threats, and his constant lying.
>
Yes, Tom-Tom, I will apologize to you for having beaten
persistently on your old, wrinkled, saggy ass, the moment you
have posted an APOLOGY to the 3 ladies, the mom & her
two then teenage daughters, to the Nation and to the Prez.
because everybody knows that you are a traitor to America,
singing your phony peace song, trying to cover your real intents
and aims which you have posted back in 2003, when you,
"tdp" Tom Potter, exclaimed:
>> tdp:... Hopefully, "hanson" will join with me,..........
>> tdp:... and begin to slaughter ......
>> tdp:... in the blood fest.....
>> tdp:... Bush and his family...
>> tdp:... will be pissed on and destroyed....
>> tdp:... Frankly, I'd [Tom] like to see ...the American government to
>> tdp:... investigate and try to make a case against me, [Tom Potter]
>
[Tom-Tom]
> Harry Hyena hanson gets all bent out of shape,
> and goes ballistic, and spews the same boilerplate
> lies, insults and threats, any time I point out
> that the same gang that instigated the
>
[hanson]
No, no, Potter, you are lying again, you gauche pinko swine.
I don't care if you point out the gang that you have a fetish
about... and I told you yesterday that you, Tom, may say with
impunity that "Bush is a complete idiot. .. I don't care... but I get
irate when you post terrorists threats, inciting terrorism, against
the prez & his FAMILY... like you did in 2003. These ">> tdp:... "
lines above are YOUR own words, you pinko turd.... no matter
how many convoluted tries you make to cover up your crime
and try to white wash yourself....
[Tom-Tom's obfuscation of his terrorist notions]
> any time I point out that the same gang that instigated the
> Class Wars of the 1900's, are trying to instigate the Religious
> Wars of the 2000's, to get back in the chips as the loop from
> their Class Wars is almost gone.
>
[Tom-Tom worries (justifiably) so]
> And note that Harry Hyena hanson tries to intimidate me and
> others by asserting that the new head of Homeland Security,
> who is a Rabbi's son, will go after non-Jews.
>
[hanson]
I didn't suggest that at all. That is your own inner fear that has
conjured up this notion within you.... ahahaha... but of cousre,
Tom-Tom, he is "come looking for you".... Gitmo, Tom!... Gitmo...
Gitmo!... Tom, Gitmo, your fate'n destiny!
>
[Tom-Tom clings to straws now}
> Could it be that Harry Hyena hanson is a member of the
> War-for_Profit gang, or a fellow traveller of the gang,
> or expects to benefit from their henious works?????
> Or could it be that Harry Hyena hanson agrees with me, and
> encourages me to post the message he wants folks to hear?
>
[hanson]
.... ahahahaha.... I have profited from war as much as you
have when you peddled your stuff, you dumb 2 faced fuck...
... and for crying out loud, Tom, update your pathetic message.
I will give you some examples below... you archaic imbezie!
>
[Tom-Tom is trying to suck up you to me]
> I think that Harry Hyena hanson has joined with me in trying to
> put the spotlight on the gang that instigates conflict and war
> for profit and power. It's you and me against the mass media.
> ( And the politicians who have sold out to the war-for-profit gang.)
> Thanks Harry!
> Tom Potter
>
[hanson]
.... ahahaha... don't thank me too prematurely, Potter. And
forget any "joining"... Hanson travels alone and loves to fuck
with loud imbezies like you, when bored on his long flights.
Tom, you twitt, you're not putting any spotlight on anything new.
To the issue that you are a moron with your instigator boiler
plate turds, let me just say that nobody gives a shit about your
century old gangs etc, when millions and millions of people in
the US see the up-to date, current version of it in living color,
on the Right wing Fox channel to the liberal TV net works
REPEATEDLY and as soon as they occur, in items like this:
== On July 10th, 2005, 3 days after the terror attacks on London
Fox News aired PM Tony Blair as saying that the conflict between
Israeli Jews and Palestinians is the underlying cause of terrorism.
== As far back as the beginning of the Clinton admin there were
Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, Rob Loewenberg,
David Wurmser and Meyrav Wurmser and other Neocons (a code
word for Jews) in the Bush admin who goaded the prez to go into
Iraq. Once that took place the pressure from Saddam onto Israel
was gone,... and promptly those same Jewish factions got luke
warm and then openly anti-war. Your Krauts have a proverb for it:
-------- "Für das Gewesene gibt the Jude nichts" ---------
== In the May 2005 "60 Minutes" interview by Mike Wallace,
Prez Vlad Putin stated that "All the looters were Jews" when
the USSR disintegrated and its the Treasury was looted.....
Wallace, a Jew himself, looked rather pleased if not proud....
but, interestingly in a re-broadcast on July 31, 2005 Wallace
did NOT repeat this video segment, but instead offered only a
watered down audio comment about these Russian "oligarchs"....
== The Euros and Ruskies do not like the Arabs. The Euros and
Ruskies hate Jews more than they hate Arabs. Which is the REAL
reason why the Euros and Ruskies are not with us in Iraq.
== Brittan's Royal Prince Harry wore a Nazi uniform with Swastika
to a party. The Jewish "Tolerance" museum demanded
that he repent by visiting Auschwitz. (CNN/Fox Jan.13, 2005)
== In the US, Xian churches, i.e. the Presbyterians do officially
criticize Israel & US Jews for their practices in Palestine and they
have begun to divest their holdings from anything that has to do
with Jews and Israel. In response they got a terrorist threat from
Queens, NY, that their churches will burn when people are in it.
(CNN Nov.14, 2004).
== The Israeli army opens probe into claims that Jewish soldiers
mutilated/abused corpses of Palestinians. (CNN-HLN Nov.19, 2004)
== Grand Jury proceedings have been initated against someone in
Rumsfeld's office for spying for Israel, using the offices of the US-
Israel Public Affairs Commitee, AIPAC, which the FBI had raided
in August 2004. (CNN-HLN, Dec. 01, 2004)
== The parents of a US-born Jewish teen killed by Palestinian militants
near a West Bank bus stop eight years ago call for a $156 million
federal court award against three Islamic charities.(12-09-04, NPR)
== At least 5 Israeli Banks, e.g. Leumi Bank, have & are still holding
onto hundreds of millions of $ deposited by Holocaust victims in
1930-40 and now still refuse to pay these depositors or their heirs.
(CNN-HLN & Fox, Feb. 04, 2005)
== Your B'nai Brith bitterly whined earlier this year (04) that there are
300'000 fever Jews in the US, in the year 2000 then there were in
1970. It was on CNN for a whole week. ....... Take a hint!, Potter...
So, Tom-Tom you stupid near coprolite could you at least up-date
your own outdated moronic boiler plate to the heuristic, current state?
and mention your instigators by name, creed and ethnicity, and not
trying to hide like a five year old having been caught with his pants
down disavowing your real intents with your feeble excuse that
"Not all Jews are.... ". Read some Einstein history, Crackpotter,
and see where Einstein, the Jew, said that "ALL Germans are
responsible for Hitler's deeds" ... and then perhaps have the
chutzpah and do the same because what's good for the goose
is good for the gander... but, naturally you are a coward because
you are afraid of and terrified by the Jews... AHAHAHA..
Can you geriatric moron see that there is absolutely NO anti-
Semitism in all that? --- It is simply regurgitating what Jews
themselves have publicly/officially written & broadcast in the US.
ahahahaha... AHAHAHA...
So, Tom what is exactly your hang-up or fetish, you pinko Turd?.
--- There's a real world out there, Potter. Here and now. ----
Take care you stupid shit and enjoy your aberrant weltbild
and thanks for all the laughs...... ahahahaha... AHAHAHA, but
------------- Potter listen and listen good: ------------
---- APOLOGIZE, NOW, to the ladies, the prez & the nation ----
ahahaha.... ahahanson
tdp...@gmail.com
As can be seen,
VRWC Destruction Machine does not know that
the Class Wars are over,
and that now, the conflict instigators
are trying to condition folks to hate other folks
of different religions,
rather than folks of different classes.
Some people have so much mental inertia,
that they lag behind in the past,
and have difficulty adapting to changing times.
Apparently VRWC Destruction Machine
is unable to comprehend that the
same gang that instigated the Class Wars of the 1900's
migrated to Israel and New York,
after their Class Wars were discredited,
and the Native Russians regained control of their nation,
and they are using these new bases from which to
instigate the Religious Wars of the 2000's,
to get back in the chips,
as the loot from their Class Wars is almost gone.
Get with the program, VRWC Destruction Machine.
Change your handle to
something that reflects hatred toward Muslims,
rather than hatred of folks of a different class.
Here's an idea for your new handle:
The Muslim Fanatical Bombers Destruction Machine
"VMFB Destruction Machine"
Go to it boy!!!!
You and Superman go get those bad guys!
Schoenfeld
hanson wrote:
[remove nonsense]
I thought I told you to stop buying your meds from your local street
chemist. Try a pharmacy, druggy.
VRWC Destruction Machine
Spoken like a true Communist.
>Some people have so much mental inertia,
>that they lag behind in the past,
>and have difficulty adapting to changing times.
>
>Apparently VRWC Destruction Machine
>is unable to comprehend that the
>same gang that instigated the Class Wars of the 1900's
>migrated to Israel and New York,
>after their Class Wars were discredited,
>and the Native Russians regained control of their nation,
>and they are using these new bases from which to
>instigate the Religious Wars of the 2000's,
>to get back in the chips,
>as the loot from their Class Wars is almost gone.
>
>Get with the program, VRWC Destruction Machine.
>Change your handle to
>something that reflects hatred toward Muslims,
>rather than hatred of folks of a different class.
>
>Here's an idea for your new handle:
>
>The Muslim Fanatical Bombers Destruction Machine
>"VMFB Destruction Machine"
>
>Go to it boy!!!!
>You and Superman go get those bad guys!
You are a loon. Go back to your reading of Marx and Lenin and see what
a failed ideology is all about.
Go for it, Komrade.
jmfb...@aol.com
I'm working on it.
>We're still trying to wrap up WWI.
Are you talking about the partitioning of the Ottoman Empire?
>
>But you miss the point in the above. In the context of what I wrote
>it doesn't (repeat, it *****doesn't*****) matter whether there is a
>connection. Totally, utterly irrelevant.
It is not irrelavant if one is trying to learn how not to make
the same mistake again. IOW, I'm trying to figure out how
to define the complete mess and then figure out how to clean
it up such that it will not occur. I realize this is quite
naive of me; this is how I approach learning enough about a
problem before I solve it.
> .. What you've, is *the same*
>situation, of a threat developing over time, being ignored, until
>eventually the shit hits the fan.
Yes, I'm aware of this but probably not to the extent I should
be.
> ..It wouldn't have mattered in the
>least, for the example, if we would've chosen for comparison an
>instance of a Roman emperor ignoring the growing power of some
>barbarian tribe, with his successor being forced by events to deal
>with the issue. Am I making myself clear enough?
Yes.
> .. The inability to
>perceive similarity of situations is a sign of a very feeble mind.
I have tried to talk about the similarity. I have given up on that.
My emphasis now is on mess cleanup over the mimimum amount
of time, as much as is possible.
>
>And, for the record, no, it is not that I'm trying to blame Clinton
>here. "Blaming" is Monday morning quarterbacking, in general. After
>untoward events happen, everybody and his uncle is eager to point out
>that "if only such and such was done at such and such time, all this
>mess could've been prevented." Well, duh.
>
>The fact of the matter is that Islamic extremism was a growing menace
>since the late 70s but it was not considered in the West as anything
>more than small nuisance till 9/11. All the administrations during
>this time frame saw it as, at most, a law enforcement issue.
Most are still trying to squeeze the situation into a law
enforcement issue. Anybody who starts yakking at me about
"fair" is doing this.
> .. So,
>precious little was done. Sure, committees were at times formed,
>memos sent, declarations and recommendations issued, etc., but that's
>not action, just going through the motions. Nobody was about to
>engage in acton involving significant effort and the expenditure of
>significant political capital (not to mention real capital) absent a
>perception of urgency, and this perception just wasn't there.
>
>So, I'm not about to single Clinton for blame. But I'm also not about
>to buy moronic statements along the lines of "Clinton kept us safe,
>Bush didn't" because these are the exact equivalent of somebody in
>Britain, 50 years ago, claiming that "Baldwin kept us safe, Churchill
>didn't".
The USA will have to endure that moronic party line because it
is the central plank of the Democrat platform at the moment.
In my studying, I'm trying to find patterns of statesmanship
attitudes. Now this may be a futile hypothesis; I've already
thrown out one of them about dealing with the impending mess.
The thing I'm watching now is how news reporters have turned
their boredom with hanging around a Texas ranch into a
feeding frenzy of an anti-Western-civilization demonstration.
/BAH
tdp...@gmail.com
It is interesting to see
that although "VRWC Destruction Machine"
has been throughly conditioned to relate to folks in terms of class and
religion by the gang that instigates conflict and war for power and
riches,
she is unaware that she has been conditioned, and by whom.
Also note that she is unaware that the war-for-profit gang
has a long history of buying and/or intimidating leaders,
( And assassinating and demonizing those leaders who couldn't be bought
or intimidated.) and that Lenin, Stalin, FDR and many others including
many American politicians, including George Bush sold out to the
war-for-profit gang.
As can be seen by history and current events,
the war-for-profit gang instigated the Class Wars of the 1900's,
and after their Class Wars were discredited,
and the native Russians regained control of their government,
they relocated to Israel and New York, from where
they are instigating the Religious Wars of the 2000's.
Note that "VRWC Destruction Machine" is still fighting the Class Wars,
and is unaware that the Class Wars are over,
and that she is being conditioned to hate folks because of religion,
rather than class.
I suggest that she should change her sig to something like
"The Muslim Fanatical Bombers Destruction Machine" to get in sync with
the times.
Of course, the war-for-profit gang can only succeed,
when it can dupe ignorant, easily-conditioned people like "VRWC
Destruction Machine" to hate folks they would otherwise get along with
just fine,
and buy and intimidate politicians like Bush, Blair, FDR, Lenin, etc.
As Philip, Alexander the Great's father said,
"There are no city walls so strong,
that they cannot be breached,
if you can get a donkey load of gold up to the wall."
The same is true with a democracy such as America has,
and immoral manipulators steal gold from the masses,
and use the gold to buy more politicians,
and use mass media to brainwash ignorant dupes.
Can you imagine what "VRWC Destruction Machine"
would be parroting if the Palestinians, Chinese,
Blacks, Muslims, etc. bombarded her with phrases.
tdp...@gmail.com
No, ignorant dupes are "supposed to"
parrot what they are conditioned to by the mass media.
Rational, intelligent, unbiased, moral folks
are "supposed to" input data,
and correlate it in order to determine causes and effects.
As I mentioned,
if you have been brainwashed to hate the U.N.,
or if you have rationally come to the conclusion
that the U.N. is not in the best interests of the U.S.,
then you should work to get the U.N. moved to China,
as I am sure that China would love to have the U.N.
located there.
Quit tilting widdmills, use your time productively
and start posting that the U.N. should be moved out of
America and to China.
VRWC Destruction Machine
You are truly an M&M, marxist and a moron. You'd be best in saving
your diatribes for the other brainwashed M&Ms.
VRWC Destruction Machine
The U.N. is just a meeting place where diplomats can hold cocktail
parties. They have banquets with the best of everything while people
starve around the world. The U.N. has never brokered a peaceful
solution. When the going gets tough, the U.N. gets going.
>Quit tilting widdmills, use your time productively
>and start posting that the U.N. should be moved out of
>America and to China.
I've said that many times in the past. I guess they don't have usenet
access on the turnip truck.
hanson
druggy, came back and cussed at me ... ahahahaha... AHAHAHA...
>
> I thought I told you to stop buying your meds from your
> local street chemist. Try a pharmacy, druggy.
>
AHAHA... you "thought"? You showed no evidence of that.
ahahaha... How come, Schoenfeld, that you have cranked
yourself so grievously that you have come up with such
extraordinarily lame retorts... They reflect your IQ to be
not more than 3 points above plant life... ahahaha...
Is that (below) what cranked you and made you so mad,
literally mad, ....that "drugs" came to your mind? You are
suspect now, Schoenfeld and you did it all to yourself...
ahahahaha...
> [hanson]
> ahahaha... AHAHAHA... look at those three pinko-green
> class 3 enviros, beatoff artists jerking each other off...
> with their Left hands, [with Schoenfeld leading the circle].
> AHAHAHA.... and they're cuming over each other in their
> mental masturbations with orgasmic ejaculations of
> hatred and doom for the US... ... AHAHA.. ahahaha....
> ahahaha.... ahahanson
>
> PS:
> Modern, attributal definitions of enviro classifications:
> Class (1)
> Green shit(s): ...are the ones who advocate, promote,
> support, legalize, institute and extort the permit charges,
> the user fees, the enviro surtaxes and the CO2/Carbon tax,
> all reflected in HIGHER PRICES of goods and services!,
> and being responsible for much of the OUT-SOURCING!
> Class (2)
> Green turd(s):... are the ones who are recipients and
> beneficiaries from the lootings of (1), directly or indirectly.
> Class (3)
> Little green idiot(s):.. are the unpaid, well-meaning ones
> who think they do something for the "environment", when in
> fact they are only the enablers and facilitators for (2) who
> are harvesting the green $$$ that (1) has extorted.
>
Traveler
>Obediently "Schoenfeld" <schoe...@gmail.com> , a class 3
>druggy, came back and cussed at me ... ahahahaha... AHAHAHA...
>>
>> I thought I told you to stop buying your meds from your
>> local street chemist. Try a pharmacy, druggy.
>>
>[hanson]
>AHAHA... you "thought"? You showed no evidence of that.
>ahahaha... How come, Schoenfeld, that you have cranked
>yourself so grievously that you have come up with such
>extraordinarily lame retorts... They reflect your IQ to be
>not more than 3 points above plant life... ahahaha...
Keep in mind that Schoenfeld once had a deep philosophical
conversation with Lady Chatterly, the usenet chat bot. ahahaha... So I
have to agree with your assessment of his IQ. ahahaha...
Louis Savain
Why Software Is Bad and What We Can Do to Fix It:
http://www.rebelscience.org/Cosas/Reliability.htm
tdp...@gmail.com
As P.T. Barrum said:
"You can fool all of the people some of the time,
and some of the people all of the time,
but you can't fool all of the people, all of the time."
As can be seen by her parroting
VRWC Destruction Machine is one of those people
who can be easily conditioned,
and "fooled all of the time."
It is interesting to see that the old conditioning
of VRWC Destruction Machine about hating folks
of different "classes' has not been totally overcome
by her new new conditioning to hate folks because
of their religion.
Get with the program VRWC Destruction Machine!!!!
The Class Wars are over and discredited.
The gang that instigates conflict and war for profit
is now conditioning you and other easily brainwashed dupes
to hate folks of a different religion.
Change your handle to:
"The Fanatical Muslim Bomber Destruction Machine",
and begin to think on your own,
rather than parroting media brainwashing.
Of course, as one of the
"can be fooled ALL of the time" crowd,
you have to live with who and what you are.
tdp...@gmail.com
It looks to me like
VRWC Destruction Machine
has been spending too much time watching TV,
and thinking about turnip trucks.
I, for one, can't see why she is so hostile
toward turnips, turnip trucks, the folks who
work in the turnip inductry, of the transportation
companies that deliver turnips to the folks who like turnips.
I wonder if she gets just as emotional and hostile toward
potatoe, corn, carrot, etc. people and industries?
It seems to me,
that as a well conditioned zombie
who has been condition to parrot slogans and phrases,
that VRWC Destruction Machine,
should act, rather than parrot,
and she should spend her time
promoting the movement of the United Nations
out of America and to some place, like the Pudong.
Act!
Don't be a brainwashed parrot,
that can only repeat the phrases that it has been conditioned to.
Work hard and long and RATIONALLY
to get the United Nations moved out of America,
and to China.
In other words,
focus on what needs to be done.
Then use RATIONAL arguments to make your case,
rather than parroting what you have been conditioned to.
And don't be so hostile toward the turnip folks.
They, like the carrot folks,
are providing goods to folks that like those goods.
If you don't like turnips.
Don't eat them.
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>In article <mxKPe.36$e5....@news.uchicago.edu>,
>
>
Yes. And the collapse pf tzarist Russia. And of the Austro-Hungarian
empire. All those left debris which is still unsettled today.
>>
>>But you miss the point in the above. In the context of what I wrote
>>it doesn't (repeat, it *****doesn't*****) matter whether there is a
>>connection. Totally, utterly irrelevant.
>
>It is not irrelavant if one is trying to learn how not to make
>the same mistake again.
Sigh. This is *precisely* why it is irrelevant. The connection
you're looking at is spurious, not the essence of the situation.
...
>
>> .. What you've, is *the same*
>>situation, of a threat developing over time, being ignored, until
>>eventually the shit hits the fan.
>
>Yes, I'm aware of this but probably not to the extent I should
>be.
>
>> ..It wouldn't have mattered in the
>>least, for the example, if we would've chosen for comparison an
>>instance of a Roman emperor ignoring the growing power of some
>>barbarian tribe, with his successor being forced by events to deal
>>with the issue. Am I making myself clear enough?
>
>Yes.
>
>> .. The inability to
>>perceive similarity of situations is a sign of a very feeble mind.
>
>I have tried to talk about the similarity. I have given up on that.
>My emphasis now is on mess cleanup over the mimimum amount
>of time, as much as is possible.
Certainly, that should be our main goal.
>>
>>And, for the record, no, it is not that I'm trying to blame Clinton
>>here. "Blaming" is Monday morning quarterbacking, in general. After
>>untoward events happen, everybody and his uncle is eager to point out
>>that "if only such and such was done at such and such time, all this
>>mess could've been prevented." Well, duh.
>>
>>The fact of the matter is that Islamic extremism was a growing menace
>>since the late 70s but it was not considered in the West as anything
>>more than small nuisance till 9/11. All the administrations during
>>this time frame saw it as, at most, a law enforcement issue.
>
>Most are still trying to squeeze the situation into a law
>enforcement issue. Anybody who starts yakking at me about
>"fair" is doing this.
Yes. That's the source of lots of our problems, lack of a proper
grasp of the situation.
>
>> .. So,
>>precious little was done. Sure, committees were at times formed,
>>memos sent, declarations and recommendations issued, etc., but that's
>>not action, just going through the motions. Nobody was about to
>>engage in acton involving significant effort and the expenditure of
>>significant political capital (not to mention real capital) absent a
>>perception of urgency, and this perception just wasn't there.
>>
>>So, I'm not about to single Clinton for blame. But I'm also not about
>>to buy moronic statements along the lines of "Clinton kept us safe,
>>Bush didn't" because these are the exact equivalent of somebody in
>>Britain, 50 years ago, claiming that "Baldwin kept us safe, Churchill
>>didn't".
>
>The USA will have to endure that moronic party line because it
>is the central plank of the Democrat platform at the moment.
>
Well, I do hope that some sanity will return at some point (though I'm
not holding my breath). In the long run the US does need two sane
parties.
>In my studying, I'm trying to find patterns of statesmanship
>attitudes. Now this may be a futile hypothesis; I've already
>thrown out one of them about dealing with the impending mess.
>
You may read about Churchill and Baldwin, in the 30s. That'll
demonstrate the difference between a statesman and a politician.
>The thing I'm watching now is how news reporters have turned
>their boredom with hanging around a Texas ranch into a
>feeding frenzy of an anti-Western-civilization demonstration.
>
Surprised? I trust not.
Schoenfeld
hanson wrote:
[remove]
Lay off the meth, druggy.
Schoenfeld
Traveler wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 00:19:55 GMT, "hanson" <han...@quick.net> wrote:
>
> >Obediently "Schoenfeld" <schoe...@gmail.com> , a class 3
> >druggy, came back and cussed at me ... ahahahaha... AHAHAHA...
> >>
> >> I thought I told you to stop buying your meds from your
> >> local street chemist. Try a pharmacy, druggy.
> >>
> >[hanson]
> >AHAHA... you "thought"? You showed no evidence of that.
> >ahahaha... How come, Schoenfeld, that you have cranked
> >yourself so grievously that you have come up with such
> >extraordinarily lame retorts... They reflect your IQ to be
> >not more than 3 points above plant life... ahahaha...
>
> Keep in mind that Schoenfeld once had a deep philosophical
> conversation with Lady Chatterly, the usenet chat bot. ahahaha... So I
> have to agree with your assessment of his IQ. ahahaha...
So you finally decided to become an "ass-kisser" yourself, groupie?
Schoenfeld
hanson wrote:
> AHAHAHA...
> ahahaha... AHAHAHA...
> AHAHAHA.... and cuming over each
> other in their mental masturbations with orgasmic ejaculations
> ahahaha.... ahahanson
Stick to smoking crack, druggy, the meth is turning you gender confused.
jmfb...@aol.com
I did this some.
> .. And of the Austro-Hungarian
>empire.
I haven't found anything at the dump on this. I have quite
a bit about China and a few on Third World politics. The
latter is almost incomprehensible to me.
> All those left debris which is still unsettled today.
Yes. I realize this. I just don't know how to take
all the bits and make a similar conclusion. More later.
>
>>>
>>>But you miss the point in the above. In the context of what I wrote
>>>it doesn't (repeat, it *****doesn't*****) matter whether there is a
>>>connection. Totally, utterly irrelevant.
>>
>>It is not irrelavant if one is trying to learn how not to make
>>the same mistake again.
>
>Sigh. This is *precisely* why it is irrelevant. The connection
>you're looking at is spurious, not the essence of the situation.
Sorry. I had intended to write more but a squirrel and I were
having discussions all morning long.
Let me try to explain how I'm trying to teach myself about
this politics, statemanship and foreign policy stuff. I am
working on the assumption that state department decisions
(which includes some expression of the country's foreign
policy at that moment) have an effect later in time.
So what I'm doing is essentially what we called a Post Partum
Review which was to examine the things that worked, the
things that didn't work, and figure out how to make the next
project go smoother without the hitches. There was a
general or somebody who looked at the treaty at the end
of WWI and could immediately state that there would be
a WWII. My goal is to learn enough so I can be able
to do the same.
I am not blaming a president for the purpose of crying
over spilt milk. I am trying to identify which
decisions were woodenheadedness and/or wrongheadedness
and be able to make a prediction of the general trends
of politics and foreign policy.
My approach may be completely wrong. I am repeating the
pattern that we did at work.
I still cannot figure out how foreign policy gets made.
I can't identify statemanship if it bit me on the nose.
>
> ...
>>
>>> .. What you've, is *the same*
>>>situation, of a threat developing over time, being ignored, until
>>>eventually the shit hits the fan.
>>
>>Yes, I'm aware of this but probably not to the extent I should
>>be.
>>
>>> ..It wouldn't have mattered in the
>>>least, for the example, if we would've chosen for comparison an
>>>instance of a Roman emperor ignoring the growing power of some
>>>barbarian tribe, with his successor being forced by events to deal
>>>with the issue. Am I making myself clear enough?
>>
>>Yes.
>>
>>> .. The inability to
>>>perceive similarity of situations is a sign of a very feeble mind.
>>
>>I have tried to talk about the similarity. I have given up on that.
>>My emphasis now is on mess cleanup over the mimimum amount
>>of time, as much as is possible.
>
>Certainly, that should be our main goal.
Yea, well....I'm beginning to realize that a method
may end up being tearing it all down and starting anew.
But this one is still on my backburner.
>>>
>>>And, for the record, no, it is not that I'm trying to blame Clinton
>>>here. "Blaming" is Monday morning quarterbacking, in general. After
>>>untoward events happen, everybody and his uncle is eager to point out
>>>that "if only such and such was done at such and such time, all this
>>>mess could've been prevented." Well, duh.
>>>
>>>The fact of the matter is that Islamic extremism was a growing menace
>>>since the late 70s but it was not considered in the West as anything
>>>more than small nuisance till 9/11. All the administrations during
>>>this time frame saw it as, at most, a law enforcement issue.
>>
>>Most are still trying to squeeze the situation into a law
>>enforcement issue. Anybody who starts yakking at me about
>>"fair" is doing this.
>
>Yes. That's the source of lots of our problems, lack of a proper
>grasp of the situation.
I'm finally hearing more talks on CSPAN about this blind spot.
There was another one last night about how the intelligensia
aren't paying any attention to the real enemy until it gets
locked up on Guantanamo. None of them (and this is not
an exaggerated statement) think about the actual enemy.
>
>>
>>> .. So,
>>>precious little was done. Sure, committees were at times formed,
>>>memos sent, declarations and recommendations issued, etc., but that's
>>>not action, just going through the motions. Nobody was about to
>>>engage in acton involving significant effort and the expenditure of
>>>significant political capital (not to mention real capital) absent a
>>>perception of urgency, and this perception just wasn't there.
>>>
>>>So, I'm not about to single Clinton for blame. But I'm also not about
>>>to buy moronic statements along the lines of "Clinton kept us safe,
>>>Bush didn't" because these are the exact equivalent of somebody in
>>>Britain, 50 years ago, claiming that "Baldwin kept us safe, Churchill
>>>didn't".
>>
>>The USA will have to endure that moronic party line because it
>>is the central plank of the Democrat platform at the moment.
>>
>Well, I do hope that some sanity will return at some point (though I'm
>not holding my breath). In the long run the US does need two sane
>parties.
Yes, continue breathing. The Clintons are not done wreaking their
destruction. It's alive and kicking in New Hampshire.
>
>>In my studying, I'm trying to find patterns of statesmanship
>>attitudes. Now this may be a futile hypothesis; I've already
>>thrown out one of them about dealing with the impending mess.
>>
>You may read about Churchill and Baldwin, in the 30s. That'll
>demonstrate the difference between a statesman and a politician.
There hasn't been any books about them at the dump which is
curious. I've been seeing if there was some correlation between
an x and a y based on the types of books and information that
people are dumping there. Something that is disturbing is that
~3% of the material is now religious propoganda.
>
>>The thing I'm watching now is how news reporters have turned
>>their boredom with hanging around a Texas ranch into a
>>feeding frenzy of an anti-Western-civilization demonstration.
>>
>Surprised? I trust not.
No. A tad discouraged, maybe.
/BAH
VRWC Destruction Machine
>As P.T. Barrum said:
>"You can fool all of the people some of the time,
>and some of the people all of the time,
>but you can't fool all of the people, all of the time."
And you are one marxist fool.
VRWC Destruction Machine
>I, for one, can't see why she is so hostile
>toward turnips, turnip trucks, the folks who
>work in the turnip inductry, of the transportation
>companies that deliver turnips to the folks who like turnips.
Because you are a turnip, Gomer.
hanson
you big time, "Schoenfeld" <schoe...@gmail.com>... ahahaha...
....Could you repeat what I said that was so effective that it makes
you take to more drugs? .... ahahaha... Schoenfeld, you are baring
and exhibiting your drug habits quite openly and overtly ... ahahaha..
It shows, Schoenfeld, here and in all your other posts... ahahaha..
hahahaha... ahahahanson
>
> hanson wrote:
> [remove]..... [since that too made Schoenfeld crank himself]
>
[Schoenfeld]
> Lay off the meth, druggy.
>
> > ahahaha... AHAHAHA... look at those three pinko-green
hanson
> > hatred and doom for the US... ... AHAHA.. ahahaha....
> > ahahaha.... ahahanson
....
Schoenfeld
hanson wrote:
> ahahaha... ahahaha... AHAHAHAHA...ahahaha...... ahahaha..
> ahahaha.. hahahaha... ahahahanson
hanson
....
Schoenfeld
hanson wrote:
> ahahaha... ahahaha... AHAHAHAHA.....ahahaha... ahahaha...ahahaha..
> ahahaha..hahahaha... ahahahanson
Just get off the meth, you messed up druggy.
hanson
you take to more drugs? .... ahahaha... Schoenfeld, you are baring
and exhibiting your drug habits quite openly and overtly ... ahahaha..
It shows, Schoenfeld, here and in all your other posts... ahahaha..
>
[Schoenfeld on 08-28-05 ]
> I, Schoenfeld, use it extensively in my formula to predict
> the momemtum gain of my perpetual motion machine
> (it also arises in my gold cold-fusion equations).
>
> hanson wrote [ now referring to Schoenfeld]:
> > ahahaha... AHAHAHA... this is a winner.. this is a keeper... ahahaha
> > ahahaha... ahahaha... even at such crazy cyber parties like this
> > ahahaha... ahahahanson
>
>[Drugfeld, very cranked and high]
> Lay off the meth, druggy.
>
>>> ahahaha... AHAHAHA... look at those three pinko-green
>>> class 3 enviros, beatoff artists, jerking each other off...
>>> with their Left hands, [with Schoenfeld leading the circle].
>>> AHAHAHA.... and they're cuming over each other in their
>>> mental masturbations with orgasmic ejaculations of
>>> hatred and doom for the US... ... AHAHA.. ahahaha....
>>> ahahaha.... ahahanson
>
>> ahahaha... ahahaha... AHAHAHAHA.....ahahaha... ahahaha
>> ...ahahaha.. ahahaha..hahahaha... ahahahanson
>
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>In article <TDbQe.42$e5....@news.uchicago.edu>,
> mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
...
>Let me try to explain how I'm trying to teach myself about
>this politics, statemanship and foreign policy stuff. I am
>working on the assumption that state department decisions
>(which includes some expression of the country's foreign
>policy at that moment) have an effect later in time.
>
As they do.
>So what I'm doing is essentially what we called a Post Partum
>Review which was to examine the things that worked, the
>things that didn't work, and figure out how to make the next
>project go smoother without the hitches. There was a
>general or somebody who looked at the treaty at the end
>of WWI and could immediately state that there would be
>a WWII.
Yes, Foch in France. He even predicted a time scale and was off just
by a few months. Mind you, this doesn't mean that such predictive
accuracy is always achievable.
> My goal is to learn enough so I can be able
>to do the same.
>
>I am not blaming a president for the purpose of crying
>over spilt milk. I am trying to identify which
>decisions were woodenheadedness and/or wrongheadedness
>and be able to make a prediction of the general trends
>of politics and foreign policy.
>
>My approach may be completely wrong. I am repeating the
>pattern that we did at work.
The approach isn't wrong, per se, but the systems you're dealing with
here are incomparably more complicated than the ones you had at work
and the goals are much less clearly defined. And, there are
constrains which often make rational decision making nearly
impossible. Ironically it appears that democracies as severly
handicapped in this respect. There is hardly any doubt that the
autocrats who met in Vienna at the close of the Napoleonic wars, did
much better job at peacemaking than did the envoys of democracies at
Versailles. The first had only to follow their political goals, the
later ones had to placate the public opinion at home as well. And
said public opinion demanded a pint of blood and a pound of flesh.
>
But that's an aside. There are, however, some oitfals you've to watch
for, in your endevour. A commonly held view (and one I want to warn
you against) is that in every situation
a) There exists a "good path", one which resolves the existing
problems without creating other ones
and
b) Said good path can be identified based on the information at hand
(and not just in retrospect).
So, remember, nice as these assumptions are, there is no proof that
they're in general correct. Thus, even if you identify some past
decision as being responsible for later time mess, this doesn't
automatically mean that the decision was wrongheaded. It may well be
that there was no possible decision which wouldn't have resulted in a
mess.
>I still cannot figure out how foreign policy gets made.
>I can't identify statemanship if it bit me on the nose.
>>
Well, I gave you an example.
>> ...
>>>
>>>I have tried to talk about the similarity. I have given up on that.
>>>My emphasis now is on mess cleanup over the mimimum amount
>>>of time, as much as is possible.
>>
>>Certainly, that should be our main goal.
>
>Yea, well....I'm beginning to realize that a method
>may end up being tearing it all down and starting anew.
Yes, this is possible.
>But this one is still on my backburner.
>
>>>>
>>>>And, for the record, no, it is not that I'm trying to blame Clinton
>>>>here. "Blaming" is Monday morning quarterbacking, in general. After
>>>>untoward events happen, everybody and his uncle is eager to point out
>>>>that "if only such and such was done at such and such time, all this
>>>>mess could've been prevented." Well, duh.
>>>>
>>>>The fact of the matter is that Islamic extremism was a growing menace
>>>>since the late 70s but it was not considered in the West as anything
>>>>more than small nuisance till 9/11. All the administrations during
>>>>this time frame saw it as, at most, a law enforcement issue.
>>>
>>>Most are still trying to squeeze the situation into a law
>>>enforcement issue. Anybody who starts yakking at me about
>>>"fair" is doing this.
>>
>>Yes. That's the source of lots of our problems, lack of a proper
>>grasp of the situation.
>
>I'm finally hearing more talks on CSPAN about this blind spot.
>There was another one last night about how the intelligensia
>aren't paying any attention to the real enemy until it gets
>locked up on Guantanamo. None of them (and this is not
>an exaggerated statement) think about the actual enemy.
Yes, it is not exaggerated. You know well that I pretty much gave up
on the western intelligentsia during the last few years. Turns out
that it is not a "pinnacle of western civilization", a parasitic
growth is more like it.
>>
>>>
>>>> .. So,
>>>>precious little was done. Sure, committees were at times formed,
>>>>memos sent, declarations and recommendations issued, etc., but that's
>>>>not action, just going through the motions. Nobody was about to
>>>>engage in acton involving significant effort and the expenditure of
>>>>significant political capital (not to mention real capital) absent a
>>>>perception of urgency, and this perception just wasn't there.
>>>>
>>>>So, I'm not about to single Clinton for blame. But I'm also not about
>>>>to buy moronic statements along the lines of "Clinton kept us safe,
>>>>Bush didn't" because these are the exact equivalent of somebody in
>>>>Britain, 50 years ago, claiming that "Baldwin kept us safe, Churchill
>>>>didn't".
>>>
>>>The USA will have to endure that moronic party line because it
>>>is the central plank of the Democrat platform at the moment.
>>>
>>Well, I do hope that some sanity will return at some point (though I'm
>>not holding my breath). In the long run the US does need two sane
>>parties.
>
>Yes, continue breathing. The Clintons are not done wreaking their
>destruction. It's alive and kicking in New Hampshire.
>>
>>>In my studying, I'm trying to find patterns of statesmanship
>>>attitudes. Now this may be a futile hypothesis; I've already
>>>thrown out one of them about dealing with the impending mess.
>>>
>>You may read about Churchill and Baldwin, in the 30s. That'll
>>demonstrate the difference between a statesman and a politician.
>
>There hasn't been any books about them at the dump which is
>curious. I've been seeing if there was some correlation between
>an x and a y based on the types of books and information that
>people are dumping there. Something that is disturbing is that
>~3% of the material is now religious propoganda.
>>
3% ain't much and people dump what they don't keep. Remember this.
>>>The thing I'm watching now is how news reporters have turned
>>>their boredom with hanging around a Texas ranch into a
>>>feeding frenzy of an anti-Western-civilization demonstration.
>>>
>>Surprised? I trust not.
>
>No. A tad discouraged, maybe.
>
Same here
tdp...@gmail.com
As can be seen
VRWC Destruction Machine
has been well conditioned to react to input emotionally,
and to respond with boilerplate.
Also note that her handle indicates that
she has been so well conditioned,
that is lagging behind in accepting new conditioning.
In other words, the Class Wars are foremost in her mind,
even though the gang that uses mass communications
( TV, movies, radio, "Ann Coulter columns", etc. )
realizes that their Class Wars have been discredited,
and they are now working to con American Blacks,
Rednecks and Latinos, into sacrificing their
lives, liberties and fortunes to kill folks
of a different religion, rather than a different class.
I suggest that VRWC Destruction Machine
should and update her handle to something like:
"The Fanatical Muslim Destruction Machine".
And she should not get all bent out of shape
and take her frustrations out on turnips,
turnip trucks, and the folks who work hard
to provide turnips to the folks who like them.
Better yet,
VRWC Destruction Machine
should quit fantasizing that she is some
sort of Lara Croft out to save the world
from those heinous turnips.
tdp...@gmail.com
As can be seen
VRWC Destruction Machine
has been well conditioned to react to input emotionally,
and to respond with boilerplate.
Also note that her handle indicates that
she has been so well conditioned,
that is lagging behind in accepting new conditioning.
In other words, the Class Wars are foremost in her mind,
even though the gang that uses mass communications
( TV, movies, radio, "Ann Coulter columns", etc. )
realizes that their Class Wars have been discredited,
and they are now working to con American Blacks,
Rednecks and Latinos, into sacrificing their
lives, liberties and fortunes to kill folks
of a different religion, rather than a different class.
I suggest that VRWC Destruction Machine
should and update her handle to something like:
"The Fanatical Muslim Destruction Machine".
And she should not get all bent out of shape
and take her frustrations out on turnips,
turnip trucks, and the folks who work hard
to provide turnips to the folks who like them.
Better yet,
VRWC Destruction Machine
should quit fantasizing that she is some
sort of Laura Croft out to save the world
from those heinous Turnips and Marxists.
Get with the program VRWC Destruction Machine!!!!
You are now being conditioned to hate folks
of a different religion,
not turnips and folks of a different class.
jmfb...@aol.com
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>In article <des4e6$8r0...@s811.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com>,
jmfb...@aol.com writes:
>>In article <TDbQe.42$e5....@news.uchicago.edu>,
>> mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>
> ...
>
>>Let me try to explain how I'm trying to teach myself about
>>this politics, statemanship and foreign policy stuff. I am
>>working on the assumption that state department decisions
>>(which includes some expression of the country's foreign
>>policy at that moment) have an effect later in time.
>>
>As they do.
>
>>So what I'm doing is essentially what we called a Post Partum
>>Review which was to examine the things that worked, the
>>things that didn't work, and figure out how to make the next
>>project go smoother without the hitches. There was a
>>general or somebody who looked at the treaty at the end
>>of WWI and could immediately state that there would be
>>a WWII.
>
>Yes, Foch in France. He even predicted a time scale and was off just
>by a few months. Mind you, this doesn't mean that such predictive
>accuracy is always achievable.
I don't expect predicting trends or consequences to be accurate
in any way. "Accuracy" happens when stuff gets fine-tunes
as the time period approaches. I'm putting this badly but
I can't think of a better way to explain it.
>
>> My goal is to learn enough so I can be able
>>to do the same.
>>
>>I am not blaming a president for the purpose of crying
>>over spilt milk. I am trying to identify which
>>decisions were woodenheadedness and/or wrongheadedness
>>and be able to make a prediction of the general trends
>>of politics and foreign policy.
>>
>>My approach may be completely wrong. I am repeating the
>>pattern that we did at work.
>
>The approach isn't wrong, per se, but the systems you're dealing with
>here are incomparably more complicated than the ones you had at work
>and the goals are much less clearly defined.
Heh, in theory we had well-defined goals. I know what you're
saying and didn't have any intention of playing the "I'm right
and he's wrong" games. I'm doing this as a learning tool which
also has the secondary goal of laying groundwork for preparation
of mess prevention and cleanup.
> .. And, there are
>constrains which often make rational decision making nearly
>impossible.
Of course. Our biz had that, too. There were times
when rational decision making was impossible because of
external events, internal woodenheadedness, an undigested
piece of grizzle, and everything else.
> .. Ironically it appears that democracies as severly
>handicapped in this respect.
Yes.
> .. There is hardly any doubt that the
>autocrats who met in Vienna at the close of the Napoleonic wars, did
>much better job at peacemaking than did the envoys of democracies at
>Versailles. The first had only to follow their political goals, the
>later ones had to placate the public opinion at home as well. And
>said public opinion demanded a pint of blood and a pound of flesh.
Yes. Democracy is a committee of a million. Representative
democracy reduces that to ~1000 who are tied, by design, to
the million by discourse. When the million becomes newly-monied,
they have the idea that they're a boss rather than a peon. Now
they try to emulate their idea of a king which is taken directly
out of fairy tales that ignore politics, kingdom security and
administration.
>
>But that's an aside. There are, however, some oitfals you've to watch
>for, in your endevour. A commonly held view (and one I want to warn
>you against) is that in every situation
>
>a) There exists a "good path", one which resolves the existing
>problems without creating other ones
I think there may be optimum paths which minimize further
well-defined messes. This _never_ implies that there won't
be any changes or adjustments to be made.
>
>and
>
>b) Said good path can be identified based on the information at hand
>(and not just in retrospect).
Oh, no; it is definitely a crap shoot. However, those whose
thinking has been patterned in a certain subject matter, can
make educated guesses and change them automatically when new
"data" comes in.
>
>So, remember, nice as these assumptions are, there is no proof that
>they're in general correct. Thus, even if you identify some past
>decision as being responsible for later time mess, this doesn't
>automatically mean that the decision was wrongheaded. It may well be
>that there was no possible decision which wouldn't have resulted in a
>mess.
All decisions create messes. I'd like to choose which mess I have
to clean up.
W.r.t. woodenheadedness, I want to be able to identify it
in the statesmanship and political bizes. I am so ignorant
about these aspects such that I couldn't identify a blunder
if it hit me on the nose.
>
>>I still cannot figure out how foreign policy gets made.
>>I can't identify statemanship if it bit me on the nose.
>>>
>Well, I gave you an example.
Yes. It's on my list. I'm not sure it will tell me what
I want to know. I still don't have any idea how (e.g.) a
piece of policy gets implemented. There has to be a work flow
involved where person X does foo which causes groups bar and baz
to do more things. And there has to be a feedback path.
I just have no idea of the work involved.
>>>>>And, for the record, no, it is not that I'm trying to blame Clinton
>>>>>here. "Blaming" is Monday morning quarterbacking, in general. After
>>>>>untoward events happen, everybody and his uncle is eager to point out
>>>>>that "if only such and such was done at such and such time, all this
>>>>>mess could've been prevented." Well, duh.
>>>>>
>>>>>The fact of the matter is that Islamic extremism was a growing menace
>>>>>since the late 70s but it was not considered in the West as anything
>>>>>more than small nuisance till 9/11. All the administrations during
>>>>>this time frame saw it as, at most, a law enforcement issue.
>>>>
>>>>Most are still trying to squeeze the situation into a law
>>>>enforcement issue. Anybody who starts yakking at me about
>>>>"fair" is doing this.
>>>
>>>Yes. That's the source of lots of our problems, lack of a proper
>>>grasp of the situation.
>>
>>I'm finally hearing more talks on CSPAN about this blind spot.
>>There was another one last night about how the intelligensia
>>aren't paying any attention to the real enemy until it gets
>>locked up on Guantanamo. None of them (and this is not
>>an exaggerated statement) think about the actual enemy.
>
>Yes, it is not exaggerated. You know well that I pretty much gave up
>on the western intelligentsia during the last few years. Turns out
>that it is not a "pinnacle of western civilization", a parasitic
>growth is more like it.
I consider it more like a cancer; a living pattern grown out
of control with no reality checks and balances.
Sorry. This religious crap isn't thrown away but is getting
seeded there. I think that's significant.
> .. Remember this.
Yes. I understand. I can tell if somebody is emptying their
bookshelves, what they did for a living (almost) and lots
of other stuff. There is also indications (flimsy but still
data with a lot of error bars) of knowledge that people think
is no longer valid. I see this more at the library in the
books that they're dumping.
There are a lot of other things I can guess, mind you...guess, but
I can't recall what they are now.
>
>>>>The thing I'm watching now is how news reporters have turned
>>>>their boredom with hanging around a Texas ranch into a
>>>>feeding frenzy of an anti-Western-civilization demonstration.
>>>>
>>>Surprised? I trust not.
>>
>>No. A tad discouraged, maybe.
>>
>Same here
There is a glimmer of hope. The anti-antis are saying No to the
antis putting words in their mouths. "You don't speak for us.."
/BAH
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>In article <ZmtQe.1$45....@news.uchicago.edu>,
> mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>>In article <des4e6$8r0...@s811.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com>,
>jmfb...@aol.com writes:
>>>In article <TDbQe.42$e5....@news.uchicago.edu>,
>>> mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>>
>> ...
>>
>>>Let me try to explain how I'm trying to teach myself about
>>>this politics, statemanship and foreign policy stuff. I am
>>>working on the assumption that state department decisions
>>>(which includes some expression of the country's foreign
>>>policy at that moment) have an effect later in time.
>>>
>>As they do.
>>
>>>So what I'm doing is essentially what we called a Post Partum
>>>Review which was to examine the things that worked, the
>>>things that didn't work, and figure out how to make the next
>>>project go smoother without the hitches. There was a
>>>general or somebody who looked at the treaty at the end
>>>of WWI and could immediately state that there would be
>>>a WWII.
>>
>>Yes, Foch in France. He even predicted a time scale and was off just
>>by a few months. Mind you, this doesn't mean that such predictive
>>accuracy is always achievable.
>
>in any way. "Accuracy" happens when stuff gets fine-tunes
>as the time period approaches. I'm putting this badly but
>I can't think of a better way to explain it.
>
>>
>>>to do the same.
>>>
>>>I am not blaming a president for the purpose of crying
>>>over spilt milk. I am trying to identify which
>>>decisions were woodenheadedness and/or wrongheadedness
>>>and be able to make a prediction of the general trends
>>>of politics and foreign policy.
>>>
>>>My approach may be completely wrong. I am repeating the
>>>pattern that we did at work.
>>
>>The approach isn't wrong, per se, but the systems you're dealing with
>>here are incomparably more complicated than the ones you had at work
>>and the goals are much less clearly defined.
>
That's what I said. Your goals where much more straightforward and
well defined than those in a political process.
> I know what you're
>saying and didn't have any intention of playing the "I'm right
>and he's wrong" games. I'm doing this as a learning tool which
>also has the secondary goal of laying groundwork for preparation
>of mess prevention and cleanup.
>
>
>> .. And, there are
>>constrains which often make rational decision making nearly
>>impossible.
>
>Of course. Our biz had that, too. There were times
>when rational decision making was impossible because of
>external events, internal woodenheadedness, an undigested
>piece of grizzle, and everything else.
>
>> .. Ironically it appears that democracies as severly
>>handicapped in this respect.
>
>Yes.
>
>> .. There is hardly any doubt that the
>>autocrats who met in Vienna at the close of the Napoleonic wars, did
>>much better job at peacemaking than did the envoys of democracies at
>>Versailles. The first had only to follow their political goals, the
>>later ones had to placate the public opinion at home as well. And
>>said public opinion demanded a pint of blood and a pound of flesh.
>
>Yes. Democracy is a committee of a million. Representative
>democracy reduces that to ~1000 who are tied, by design, to
>the million by discourse. When the million becomes newly-monied,
>they have the idea that they're a boss rather than a peon. Now
>they try to emulate their idea of a king which is taken directly
>out of fairy tales that ignore politics, kingdom security and
>administration.
>
Yep.
>>
>>But that's an aside. There are, however, some oitfals you've to watch
>>for, in your endevour. A commonly held view (and one I want to warn
>>you against) is that in every situation
>>
>>a) There exists a "good path", one which resolves the existing
>>problems without creating other ones
>
>I think there may be optimum paths which minimize further
>well-defined messes. This _never_ implies that there won't
>be any changes or adjustments to be made.
>>
All "minimize" means is "not as bad as the other cases". Which may
still be quite bad.
>>and
>>
>>b) Said good path can be identified based on the information at hand
>>(and not just in retrospect).
>
>Oh, no; it is definitely a crap shoot. However, those whose
>thinking has been patterned in a certain subject matter, can
>make educated guesses and change them automatically when new
>"data" comes in.
Yes, that's where experience comes into play.
>>
>>So, remember, nice as these assumptions are, there is no proof that
>>they're in general correct. Thus, even if you identify some past
>>decision as being responsible for later time mess, this doesn't
>>automatically mean that the decision was wrongheaded. It may well be
>>that there was no possible decision which wouldn't have resulted in a
>>mess.
>
>All decisions create messes. I'd like to choose which mess I have
>to clean up.
The thing is, you're not the only one doing the choosing. There are
other players involved and they're choosing too.
>
>W.r.t. woodenheadedness, I want to be able to identify it
>in the statesmanship and political bizes. I am so ignorant
>about these aspects such that I couldn't identify a blunder
>if it hit me on the nose.
>>
>>>I still cannot figure out how foreign policy gets made.
>>>I can't identify statemanship if it bit me on the nose.
>>>>
>>Well, I gave you an example.
>
>Yes. It's on my list. I'm not sure it will tell me what
>I want to know. I still don't have any idea how (e.g.) a
>piece of policy gets implemented. There has to be a work flow
>involved where person X does foo which causes groups bar and baz
>to do more things. And there has to be a feedback path.
>I just have no idea of the work involved.
All I can say is "very, very complicated". But I'm not privy to
details.
>
>>>>>>And, for the record, no, it is not that I'm trying to blame Clinton
>>>>>>here. "Blaming" is Monday morning quarterbacking, in general. After
>>>>>>untoward events happen, everybody and his uncle is eager to point out
>>>>>>that "if only such and such was done at such and such time, all this
>>>>>>mess could've been prevented." Well, duh.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The fact of the matter is that Islamic extremism was a growing menace
>>>>>>since the late 70s but it was not considered in the West as anything
>>>>>>more than small nuisance till 9/11. All the administrations during
>>>>>>this time frame saw it as, at most, a law enforcement issue.
>>>>>
>>>>>Most are still trying to squeeze the situation into a law
>>>>>enforcement issue. Anybody who starts yakking at me about
>>>>>"fair" is doing this.
>>>>
>>>>Yes. That's the source of lots of our problems, lack of a proper
>>>>grasp of the situation.
>>>
>>>I'm finally hearing more talks on CSPAN about this blind spot.
>>>There was another one last night about how the intelligensia
>>>aren't paying any attention to the real enemy until it gets
>>>locked up on Guantanamo. None of them (and this is not
>>>an exaggerated statement) think about the actual enemy.
>>
>>Yes, it is not exaggerated. You know well that I pretty much gave up
>>on the western intelligentsia during the last few years. Turns out
>>that it is not a "pinnacle of western civilization", a parasitic
>>growth is more like it.
>
>I consider it more like a cancer; a living pattern grown out
>of control with no reality checks and balances.
>
Yes, a good analogy.
>Sorry. This religious crap isn't thrown away but is getting
>seeded there. I think that's significant.
>
Hmm, if ture, that's interesting.
>> .. Remember this.
>
>Yes. I understand. I can tell if somebody is emptying their
>bookshelves, what they did for a living (almost) and lots
>of other stuff. There is also indications (flimsy but still
>data with a lot of error bars) of knowledge that people think
>is no longer valid. I see this more at the library in the
>books that they're dumping.
>
>There are a lot of other things I can guess, mind you...guess, but
>I can't recall what they are now.
>>
>>>>>The thing I'm watching now is how news reporters have turned
>>>>>their boredom with hanging around a Texas ranch into a
>>>>>feeding frenzy of an anti-Western-civilization demonstration.
>>>>>
>>>>Surprised? I trust not.
>>>
>>>No. A tad discouraged, maybe.
>>>
>>Same here
>
>There is a glimmer of hope. The anti-antis are saying No to the
>antis putting words in their mouths. "You don't speak for us.."
>
Good.
tdp...@gmail.com
<mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
news:jQdRe.10$45....@news.uchicago.edu...
Good point!
For example,
Cindy Sheehan, who's son died in "Operation Oil Grab",
and 60% plus of the American people,
and perhaps 80% of the world's people,
oppose "Operation Oil Grab"
( And the numbers are growing daily.),
and think that the 200,000 Americans involved in the war,
should be home, or at least in places like New Orleans,
defending and repairing the infrastructure.
It is interesting to see that a small percentage
of the population is making a big noise about
"You don't speak for us Cindy Sheehan."
"You don't speak for us American majority."
"You don't speak for us World Community."
Democracy is about listening to the majority,
and not allowing demagogues and vocal minorities
do great harm to the majority.
Hopefully, in time,
the American majority will be able to see that justice is done,
and the people responsible for the death of Cindy Sheehan son,
and the hundreds of other Americans, and the thousands of Iraqi's,
and the waste of untold billions of dollars,
and the squandering of untold irreplaceable resources,
and destruction of priceless, ancient artifacts,
will be turned over to American and International Courts
to be tried for their crimes against the majority of humanity.
In the final accounting,
the majority of humanity will say loud and clear,
"You don't speak for us George Bush."
"You don't speak for us Tony Blair."
"You don't speak for us aggressive, vocal minority."
"You don't speak for us Texas oil billionaires."
"You don't speak for us war-for-profit instigators."
jmfb...@aol.com
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>In article <df1h5m$8qk...@s1242.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com>,
jmfb...@aol.com writes:
>>In article <ZmtQe.1$45....@news.uchicago.edu>,
>> mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>>>In article <des4e6$8r0...@s811.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com>,
>>jmfb...@aol.com writes:
>>>>In article <TDbQe.42$e5....@news.uchicago.edu>,
>>>> mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
<snip>
>>>> My goal is to learn enough so I can be able
>>>>to do the same.
>>>>
>>>>I am not blaming a president for the purpose of crying
>>>>over spilt milk. I am trying to identify which
>>>>decisions were woodenheadedness and/or wrongheadedness
>>>>and be able to make a prediction of the general trends
>>>>of politics and foreign policy.
>>>>
>>>>My approach may be completely wrong. I am repeating the
>>>>pattern that we did at work.
>>>
>>>The approach isn't wrong, per se, but the systems you're dealing with
>>>here are incomparably more complicated than the ones you had at work
>>>and the goals are much less clearly defined.
>>
>>Heh, in theory we had well-defined goals.
>
>That's what I said. Your goals where much more straightforward and
>well defined than those in a political process.
That was a mocking statement. Our "goals" never matched reality.
Some days it was physics changing them (c is too slow), or hardware types
removing done interrupts from the gear or marketing idiots
selling what we didn't have...stuff like that. I realize ours
was less complex but only due to the fact there wasn't
a gazillion people involved at the boss level.
>>> .. There is hardly any doubt that the
>>>autocrats who met in Vienna at the close of the Napoleonic wars, did
>>>much better job at peacemaking than did the envoys of democracies at
>>>Versailles. The first had only to follow their political goals, the
>>>later ones had to placate the public opinion at home as well. And
>>>said public opinion demanded a pint of blood and a pound of flesh.
>>
>>Yes. Democracy is a committee of a million. Representative
>>democracy reduces that to ~1000 who are tied, by design, to
>>the million by discourse. When the million becomes newly-monied,
>>they have the idea that they're a boss rather than a peon. Now
>>they try to emulate their idea of a king which is taken directly
>>out of fairy tales that ignore politics, kingdom security and
>>administration.
>>
>Yep.
>>>
>>>But that's an aside. There are, however, some oitfals you've to watch
>>>for, in your endevour. A commonly held view (and one I want to warn
>>>you against) is that in every situation
>>>
>>>a) There exists a "good path", one which resolves the existing
>>>problems without creating other ones
>>
>>I think there may be optimum paths which minimize further
>>well-defined messes. This _never_ implies that there won't
>>be any changes or adjustments to be made.
>>>
>All "minimize" means is "not as bad as the other cases". Which may
>still be quite bad.
Oh,yes. I understand that, too. There is also the complication
of what is bad for me is not bad for you :-). Talk about CATCH-22s
and rocks between hard places.
>
>>>and
>>>
>>>b) Said good path can be identified based on the information at hand
>>>(and not just in retrospect).
>>
>>Oh, no; it is definitely a crap shoot. However, those whose
>>thinking has been patterned in a certain subject matter, can
>>make educated guesses and change them automatically when new
>>"data" comes in.
>
>Yes, that's where experience comes into play.
Since we now have instant messaging, nobody gets to practice
being a statesman on his own like in the "bad" ol' days
where the diplomat has a general outline and his job is
to fill in the gaps as best as he knows how given the
circumstances he's living in.
>>>
>>>So, remember, nice as these assumptions are, there is no proof that
>>>they're in general correct. Thus, even if you identify some past
>>>decision as being responsible for later time mess, this doesn't
>>>automatically mean that the decision was wrongheaded. It may well be
>>>that there was no possible decision which wouldn't have resulted in a
>>>mess.
>>
>>All decisions create messes. I'd like to choose which mess I have
>>to clean up.
>
>The thing is, you're not the only one doing the choosing.
I know. This also has to be a part of my approach. I dealt
with this, too when laying out the specs to my bit flows.
> .. There are
>other players involved and they're choosing too.
Or not choosing. That's the hardest to deal with, IMO.
>>>>I still cannot figure out how foreign policy gets made.
>>>>I can't identify statemanship if it bit me on the nose.
>>>>>
>>>Well, I gave you an example.
>>
>>Yes. It's on my list. I'm not sure it will tell me what
>>I want to know. I still don't have any idea how (e.g.) a
>>piece of policy gets implemented. There has to be a work flow
>>involved where person X does foo which causes groups bar and baz
>>to do more things. And there has to be a feedback path.
>>I just have no idea of the work involved.
>
>All I can say is "very, very complicated".
I assumed this.
> .. But I'm not privy to details.
I'm finding clues. Somebody dumped their library that had
lots of "foreign policy of the US" books. I'm presuming
that these writeups were part of the feedback input used back then.
Copyright dates are late 70s, early 80s. There is also volumes
of tables of food and industry production/country that I haven't
figured out how to use. There used to be a book that you order
from your Washington Rep that also published the latter stuff
in addition to other things. I'm reading a book that happens
to mention other kinds of books that were a Sear-Roebuck catalog
of shit-kickin' weapons.
All of this stuff was a part of the basic reading material of
anybody running a governement.
I'm also picking up books at the dump that talks about monied
people. They were nuts. My definition of "monied" is incorrect.
I'm beginning to consider the word "royalty". I don't know if
you are able to understand what I mean; I don't how to put the
notions in words yet.
Very interesting. I'm not sure how long this pattern should
last before I can or cannot dismiss it. Right now I'm just
noting the changes in a pattern.
>
>>> .. Remember this.
>>
>>Yes. I understand. I can tell if somebody is emptying their
>>bookshelves, what they did for a living (almost) and lots
>>of other stuff. There is also indications (flimsy but still
>>data with a lot of error bars) of knowledge that people think
>>is no longer valid. I see this more at the library in the
>>books that they're dumping.
>>
>>There are a lot of other things I can guess, mind you...guess, but
>>I can't recall what they are now.
>>>
>>>>>>The thing I'm watching now is how news reporters have turned
>>>>>>their boredom with hanging around a Texas ranch into a
>>>>>>feeding frenzy of an anti-Western-civilization demonstration.
>>>>>>
>>>>>Surprised? I trust not.
>>>>
>>>>No. A tad discouraged, maybe.
>>>>
>>>Same here
>>
>>There is a glimmer of hope. The anti-antis are saying No to the
>>antis putting words in their mouths. "You don't speak for us.."
>>
>Good.
Yea. It is going to be interesting when independent-thinking
SOBs decide that they need to pay attention to politics
because the people they hired aren't doing the job at all.
Watch Mass. Voters are almost to the "That's IT!" level
of annoyance.
/BAH
hanson
intellect shines onto himself in his grand illusion to speak for
the majority of humanity.... AHHAHAHAHA... & wrote in message
news:1125489484.1...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> In the final accounting,
> the majority of humanity will say loud and clear,
> "You don't speak for us George Bush."
> "You don't speak for us Tony Blair."
> "You don't speak for us aggressive, vocal minority."
> "You don't speak for us Texas oil billionaires."
> "You don't speak for us war-for-profit instigators."
>
[hanson]
ahahahaha... AHAHAHA... but you, Crackpotter, do believe
to speak for humanity?... ahahaha...... AHAHAHAHA...
You, Tom, who has these credentials with that track record?
:::: tdp:... assassinated....
:::: tdp:... to assassinate...
:::: tdp:... assassinating someone...
:::: tdp:... past assassinations...
:::: tdp:... assassinating leaders,
:::: tdp:... assassination of leaders...
and then you, the very same sick & mentally decrepit Tom Potter,
continues in your adjacent, concurrent post with
:::: tdp:... to assassinate someone...
:::: tdp:... assassinating...
:::: tdp:... to assassinate...
:::: tdp:... original "Assassins".
news:A_cRe.5401$z2....@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
news:1125392182.5...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
Tom, for God's sake, can't you see that you don't have all your
cups in your cupboard any longer?
Sheesh, Potter, exorcise your "assassination" demons simply by:
== APOLOGIZING to the ladies, the Nation & the Prez ==
for having said in 2003:
::::
:::: tdp:... Hopefully, "hanson" will join with me,..........
:::: tdp:... and begin to slaughter ......
:::: tdp:... in the blood fest.....
:::: tdp:... Bush and his family...
:::: tdp:... will be pissed on and destroyed....
:::: tdp:... Frankly, I'd [Tom] like to see ...the American government to
:::: tdp:... investigate and try to make a case against me, [Tom Potter]
::::
== Potter, APOLOGIZE to the ladies, the Nation & the Prez ==
Do it, Potter... do it... then your assassination obsession will go away
and you then, thereafter only, may perhaps acquire to right to sing:
:::: tdp:... Join with me hanson in building bridges between
:::: tdp:... individuals, races, religions and nations.
Now, never mind the "joining", Tom... but, YES do begin with your
noble aims... yet, first things first, Tom:
== Potter, APOLOGIZE to the ladies, the Nation & the Prez ==
hanson
VRWC Destruction Machine
>
>VRWC Destruction Machine wrote:
>> On 27 Aug 2005 20:09:49 -0700, tdp...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> >As P.T. Barrum said:
>> >"You can fool all of the people some of the time,
>> >and some of the people all of the time,
>> >but you can't fool all of the people, all of the time."
>>
>> And you are one marxist fool.
>>
>> -
>> "Liberals become indignant when you question their patriotism,
>> but simultaneously work overtime to give terrorists a cushion
>> or the next attack and laugh at dumb Americans who love their
>> country and hate the enemy."
>> -Ann Coulter July 3, 2002
>
>As can be seen
>VRWC Destruction Machine
>has been well conditioned to react to input emotionally,
>and to respond with boilerplate.
>
You are a charicature of a brainwashed Marxist. You mentioning a
boilerplate is a joke with you being the punch line. You're now
copying and pasting your response with Marxist class warfare
bullshit. This not the Potemkin, komrade kook.
-
Democrats couldn't care less if people in Indiana hate them.
But if Europeans curl their lips, liberals can't look at
themselves in the mirror.
-Ann Coulter