Sirhan Sirhan now claims he was hypnotized without his knowledge or consent
into shooting at RFK but says he did not do the actual killing since he wasn't
close enough to have fired at the back of Kennedy's head.
        Is it possible to hypnotize someone without their knowledge or consent into
shooting someone?

Not hypnotized but brainwashed. For more information check out
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirhan_Sirhan

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Szeles
sze...@szeles.com
http://www.szeles.com
http://www.szeles.com/HypnoStage.htm
ICQ#989468
The only name for quality hypnotic entertainment! tm

"I can't believe Clark Kent didn't come to Superman's funeral" Lois Lane

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench,
a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run
free, and good men die like dogs.
There's also a negative side."
Hunter S. Thompson
-----------------------------------------------------------------

I must disclose that I have only seen the original movie with the
supporting role by Frank Sinatra, and have not read the book.
==================================================================

How to make a Manchurian Candidate.  

{I am going to assume the candidate is male.  It is quite possible for
female.  However, it's a hell of a lot easier to write with only one gender
in mind.}

Here is how I would do it.

First off, we need the ideal subject, someone who wasn't planning on being
in the military -- it was never his life-long dream -- but once there, the
soldier turned out to be really excellent at it.  The reason this is ideal
is that we're going to build two diametrically opposite belief systems in
this individual:  One where the person maintains that he's opposed to
unnecessary violence, and one where he's exceptionally excellent at
delivering what is perceived by others as violence, but he does not
perceive it as anything more than following orders.

The conditioning would be better if the subject were willing.  However, as
the movie goes, the conditioning comes to a person who was not willing.

There are four ways to get someone into a subconscious state (SODA:  Shock,
Overload, Deception, Anticipatory).  To move this person into a
subconscious state without his permission, we will begin with overload.  

The candidate will have to be run by someone who is perceived as a superior
officer.  In this way, the person is already conditioned to follow orders,
which is a requirement of the military.

Now, overload begins with tasks that require both physical and mental
concentration.  By compounding the tasks so that there are more and more
demands placed on this same individual, what happens is that the person, at
some point, will discover that he can't consciously concentrate on
maintaining all the tasks all at once, so he slips into a subconscious
state, which easily processes all the tasks, but then becomes more
susceptable to control, especially if he's unaware that he's shifted from a
conscious state to a subconscious state (the easiest way I know is that my
perception of time shifts)

For example, give the candidate a crash course in shapes, textures and
colors of paint, as well as a symbolic interpretation of each shape of sign
and the underlying meaning of colors. This is to create a foundation of
chaos. Next, put the candidate on a march that runs an inevitable lap, so
that the starting point and ending point is the same.  Put a set of
headphones on the candidate so you can give additional orders to the person
while he's marching, as well as two CCD video cameras, one to watch his
face at all times and the other to watch where's going.  We need this to
watch for signs that the person is passing into a subconscious state, as
well as knowing where in the field the person is

Around this track, you will need to place pictures, billboards, symbols and
other visual distractions.  There must be an odd number of signs, less than
a hundred, and prime.  In this way, there's no actual pattern the person
can use to break the strides into exact steps between signs and the
parameters of the overall march.  This adds stress.  I would recommend no
less than 53 signs nor more than 83.  Have these signs in all forms of
shapes, colors, and messages.  Have only eleven of the messages infer the
mindset you want your killer to believe.

As the runner goes around the lap the first time, do not make any reference
to the signs for over half of the lap, then demand that the candidate count
all of the yellow signs with blue lettering that have the word "refrain" in
them.  Next, just as the person gets to the starting line, add the next
command, and when he gets past just five signs, add the next, and the next,
while commanding that the person will get tested at the end of the run.  
What we're going to do is to program him from a suggestion of individual
words that he's picking out of these signs.  Thus, anyone looking at the
messages will see nothing out of the ordinary in the messages, but our
candidate will be asked to find each of these words over the course of the
run "Refrain, from, questioning, authority..." and whatever message you
want delivered to most tweak the ultimate mindset of your killer.

At some point, the person will hit overload.  At that point, the person's
eyelids will flutter, and then this candidate will go into automatic pilot,
for the majority of the candidate's mind will go into a hibernation state
while the physical demands will remain in motion.

It is at this point where the actual programming can begin.

Does anyone have an interest in this thread?  From here, there are many
levels of conditioning that need to take place, mostly from the invocation
of imagination as a vivid and vital tool of reprogramming, but it would
take a bit of writing.  If there's no interest, I don't want to waste my
time.

Let me know.

Peace,

Dave Brager
dibra...@NOSPAMverizon.net
scrypnosis.com

(From Coshi Ann Metterson)

Why would his eyelids flutter?

news:yxsRc.5330$114.3006@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
I must disclose that I have only seen the original movie with the
supporting role by Frank Sinatra, and have not read the book.
==================================================================

How to make a Manchurian Candidate.

{I am going to assume the candidate is male.  It is quite possible for
female.  However, it's a hell of a lot easier to write with only one gender
in mind.}

Here is how I would do it.

First off, we need the ideal subject, someone who wasn't planning on being
in the military -- it was never his life-long dream -- but once there, the
soldier turned out to be really excellent at it.  The reason this is ideal
is that we're going to build two diametrically opposite belief systems in
this individual:  One where the person maintains that he's opposed to
unnecessary violence, and one where he's exceptionally excellent at
delivering what is perceived by others as violence, but he does not
perceive it as anything more than following orders.

The conditioning would be better if the subject were willing.  However, as
the movie goes, the conditioning comes to a person who was not willing.

There are four ways to get someone into a subconscious state (SODA:  Shock,
Overload, Deception, Anticipatory).  To move this person into a
subconscious state without his permission, we will begin with overload.

The candidate will have to be run by someone who is perceived as a superior
officer.  In this way, the person is already conditioned to follow orders,
which is a requirement of the military.

Now, overload begins with tasks that require both physical and mental
concentration.  By compounding the tasks so that there are more and more
demands placed on this same individual, what happens is that the person, at
some point, will discover that he can't consciously concentrate on
maintaining all the tasks all at once, so he slips into a subconscious
state, which easily processes all the tasks, but then becomes more
susceptable to control, especially if he's unaware that he's shifted from a
conscious state to a subconscious state (the easiest way I know is that my
perception of time shifts)

For example, give the candidate a crash course in shapes, textures and
colors of paint, as well as a symbolic interpretation of each shape of sign
and the underlying meaning of colors. This is to create a foundation of
chaos. Next, put the candidate on a march that runs an inevitable lap, so
that the starting point and ending point is the same.  Put a set of
headphones on the candidate so you can give additional orders to the person
while he's marching, as well as two CCD video cameras, one to watch his
face at all times and the other to watch where's going.  We need this to
watch for signs that the person is passing into a subconscious state, as
well as knowing where in the field the person is

Around this track, you will need to place pictures, billboards, symbols and
other visual distractions.  There must be an odd number of signs, less than
a hundred, and prime.  In this way, there's no actual pattern the person
can use to break the strides into exact steps between signs and the
parameters of the overall march.  This adds stress.  I would recommend no
less than 53 signs nor more than 83.  Have these signs in all forms of
shapes, colors, and messages.  Have only eleven of the messages infer the
mindset you want your killer to believe.

As the runner goes around the lap the first time, do not make any reference
to the signs for over half of the lap, then demand that the candidate count
all of the yellow signs with blue lettering that have the word "refrain" in
them.  Next, just as the person gets to the starting line, add the next
command, and when he gets past just five signs, add the next, and the next,
while commanding that the person will get tested at the end of the run.
What we're going to do is to program him from a suggestion of individual
words that he's picking out of these signs.  Thus, anyone looking at the
messages will see nothing out of the ordinary in the messages, but our
candidate will be asked to find each of these words over the course of the
run "Refrain, from, questioning, authority..." and whatever message you
want delivered to most tweak the ultimate mindset of your killer.

At some point, the person will hit overload.  At that point, the person's
eyelids will flutter, and then this candidate will go into automatic pilot,
for the majority of the candidate's mind will go into a hibernation state
while the physical demands will remain in motion.

It is at this point where the actual programming can begin.

Does anyone have an interest in this thread?  From here, there are many
levels of conditioning that need to take place, mostly from the invocation
of imagination as a vivid and vital tool of reprogramming, but it would
take a bit of writing.  If there's no interest, I don't want to waste my
time.

Let me know.

Peace,

Dave Brager
dibra...@NOSPAMverizon.net
scrypnosis.com

Find some chink to run for office? :-)

Willing assassins are a dime-a-dozen these days. I wonder if Brager's
strategy could get people to STOP smoking and STOP over-eating? Like all
the hypeno TAPES and CDs that are being HUSTLED...

I despise hypnosis applications for weight loss and smoking.  That fits
under what I call "The Shovel Syndrome."  People assume that a shovel only
has two applications:  Digging holes and moving dog shit.  However, give a
shovel to an improvisation troupe and you get an eye patch for a stupid
giant, a sled for a two year old, a baseball cup for an even stupider
giant, a baseball cup for an elephant, a oar for a rowboat, the stupidest
giant's Q-Tip®, and many other applications.

My website has hypnosis modules for multiple orgasms, grief and anxiety
relief, better golf, better grades, better memory use, eyes-open and eyes-
closed adventure role playing game applications, and many valid and non-
typical applications.

I obtained a gastric bypass because I needed a permanent fix for weight
loss.  I have never believed hypnosis to be effective for long-term weight
loss because people's lives change, their situation flux, and in the
briefest moment of decision, people can change all their decision-based
logic about how they relate to food while under stress.  Surgery doesn't
change.

My website freely disseminates my work.

http://www.scrypnosis.com

David I. Brager

For those that don't know hypnosis, the first and most common proof that a
person is entering a subconscious state is a fluttering of the eyelids.  

d

"Compu-Pikachu" <c o m p u - p i k a c h u @ v a l i n t . n e t> wrote in message <news:10heuvd54gvsp08@corp.supernews.com>...

I'm VERY INTERESTED in what you have to say.  This post of yours
contains a lot of very valuable information, not only for myself, but
for usenet archives.  It would be greatly appreciated if you would
continue.

Is the level of deep hypnotic suggestion as used in movies like THE
MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE and TELEPHON really possible??? Could someone
really be turned into a killer, complete with hypnotic trigger?

I, too, have been watching the original 1962 version of the movie.  I
have so many questions for this group regarding hypnosis and
brainwashing.  You've answered many of them.  Please continue.

Thank you in advance!

-Leary-

(From Coshi Ann Metterson)

I've researched a lot about hypnosis in my time, but I've never heard of
that phenomenon.  Tell me, why does it happen?

news:8sRRc.9263$BO.1970@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
For those that don't know hypnosis, the first and most common proof that a
person is entering a subconscious state is a fluttering of the eyelids.

d

(From Coshi Ann Metterson)

Well, maybe you could compensate for that by adding something to the session
that helps the person resist bad changes to this decision-based logic of
theirs you talked about.  I'm really not sure if that's feasible, but it's
just a theory.

news:9kRRc.9253$BO.3593@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
I despise hypnosis applications for weight loss and smoking.  That fits
under what I call "The Shovel Syndrome."  People assume that a shovel only
has two applications:  Digging holes and moving dog shit.  However, give a
shovel to an improvisation troupe and you get an eye patch for a stupid
giant, a sled for a two year old, a baseball cup for an even stupider
giant, a baseball cup for an elephant, a oar for a rowboat, the stupidest
giant's Q-Tip®, and many other applications.

My website has hypnosis modules for multiple orgasms, grief and anxiety
relief, better golf, better grades, better memory use, eyes-open and eyes-
closed adventure role playing game applications, and many valid and non-
typical applications.

I obtained a gastric bypass because I needed a permanent fix for weight
loss.  I have never believed hypnosis to be effective for long-term weight
loss because people's lives change, their situation flux, and in the
briefest moment of decision, people can change all their decision-based
logic about how they relate to food while under stress.  Surgery doesn't
change.

My website freely disseminates my work.

http://www.scrypnosis.com

David I. Brager

FLUTTERPATED: Rapid Eye Movement (REM) indicates Alpha Brain Wave
activity (Light Trance). -TheShadowNose

How to Make a Manchurian Candidate...continued
(by David I. Brager/Scrypnosis.com)

There is a stage that needs to take place BEFORE the stage that I've
already posted.

To make the game work, we're going to need to condition our candidate to
have a vivid imagination.  If the candidate does not have sufficient
imagination, none of this will work to the maximal employ of the system.  

We want our candidate to build an imaginary character.  This will, in time,
be used to educate our candidate's alter ego so as to become real in an
imagined set.  

To make this work to the best of the process, I'd recommend the programmer
make a composite list of book and movie characters cut and pasted together
by their strengths and/or their ideologies.  You want to make very sure
that he's witnessed these characters and had discussions about qualities of
these characters which would be ideal for a specific special forces
application, and for this person to let their imaginary character's ego
have these abilities and beliefs.  Give the candidate's imaginary character
a name, and then refer to it whenever you need it.

Throughout this conditioning phase, you'll need to use an approach to role
playing similar to Dungeons and Dragons.  You want to approach it from
creating belief systems that substantiate the existence of the imagined
identity and subsequently develop the intrinsic logic that supports the
cold killer instinct that our candidate does not have.  We also want to
have the candidate conditioned to allow only the most mundane memories of
what is happening to the imagined character be remembered by their own
"real" personality.  Thus, we need to add that there be "extra attention
paid to the scenery and travel so that the main ego is always entertained
and knows where he's going because he knows where he's been even though he
doesn't necessarily understand why the imagined personality does what it
does, and never remembers it doing anything that is outside of the main
personality's value system." (my suggestions as worded)

One thing that most people don't realize about D&D is the importance of the
Dungeon Master.  This person is one whom you cannot kill.  The reason you
cannot kill him or her is that this person is God.  This person controls
heaven and earth around the existence and belief structure of the gaming
environment.  Subsequently, it must be maintained that in imagining these
facets of character, the imagined character will do nothing, ever, to hurt
or kill the game master, programmer, or whatever you want to call this
modern-day puppetmaster.

At some point in the game, the programmer must begin using a telephone as
the dispatch point of transmitting orders for the imaginary character.  
This will be used later in the process (as used in the movie).

===============================================================
As stated in my last post, there are four ways to get someone into a
subconscious state (SODA:  Shock, Overload, Deception, Anticipatory). Now
that we have this person approaching overload, it would be vital to start
shooting at him with live ammunition while he's wearing Kevlar.  You'll
need a marksman and one very precise shot.  You want something that will
create intense pain but not kill the victim.  The purpose of the one shot
is to establish a trigger.  I'd say aim for the left nipple, and you might
mil down the powder on the ammunition so that this one shot has less punch,
but does the damage that is needed.

Most people don't realize, when it happens, the moment they've dropped into
a subconscious state.  They also don't realize when they have intense pain
or intense fear, the mind escapes reality through enabling disbelief (which
is also a form of subconsciousness).  Disbelief is what happens when you
find yourself saying, "I can't believe this is happening."  The instant you
feel it, your mind will then augment your sense of reality so that
everything feels surreal.  That sensation is the instant of
subconsciousness, and for the untrained mind, it's very unnerving.

So, what do we have so far?  A person who has been conditioned to play
role-playing games with a precisely enlightened imaginary character, an
then intellectually challenged to the extremes of an exercise, and finally,
when he least expects it, he's shot in the nipple, but not pierced due to
protective clothing, but then shot at with multiple near misses.  Here, our
contender is prime for programming, for as we've shot our own person, we've
now opened the meanest approach to subconsciousness:  Deception.

Trust is the primary basis of doing effective and good hypnosis.  Those of
us who help teach hypnosis are striving to let people achieve specific
goals through anticipatory approaches that we know will achieve the
subconscious states we need to get the ball rolling.  

When you shoot at someone, you destroy all trust.  However, in this field,
you need someone to help this candidate, who was just shot, shelter him,
take him in, and condition him.  The candidate is now primed for
programming, and it will be the programmer's job to take it from here.

Anyone familiar with Neuro-Linguistic Programming understands that you can
trigger one type of behavior in relation to a motion or contact.  What
we're shooting for here is to set a word to be a trigger, and every time
the word is used as a trigger, the pained nipple needs to be touched,
brushed, or pushed.  In this way, the trigger is bound to the physical
memory of pain, and at this moment, you want to provide "proof" that the
pain was from a government, etc. that has deceived the candidate, or more
specific than that, if you know the target or stratification of persons
that you want the candidate to kill, you want to make that association
here.

From my research, I found that each human uses a personality vessel system
to manage the memory of each individual identity they meet, whether real or
imagined.  Consider the facet of cartoon characters.  They're not real,
right?  However, from asking subconscious people to set their own
personalities aside and to allow these alternative personalities to take
over their bodies for a period of time, I discovered that their mind's
adaptation and learning were so complete and the absorption of minuscule
idiosyncrasies were so precise that the transformations were better than
most actors could do with a week's preparations.  It was instantaneous and
extreme.  I've had people become Fred Flintstone or Mr. Spock, and many
other characters from entertainment mediums, and these people were not
actors, but their minds adapted and saw all transformations of values to
their correct limits within an instant of asking for such changes.  

So, while we have our person in a decepted, shocked, and overloaded
subconscious state, and in clear craving of needing to escape from reality,
we suggest that this person let their own personality take a break and, for
an undisclosed but specific period of time, let the imagined character take
over their body and become real.  Then suggest that anytime they hear the
word which had been set as the trigger/nipple/pain trigger, the person will
instantly feel the need to escape reality and drop into this alter
personality as a protection mechanism.

Now, once the person is actually being the imagined character, the
programmer can teach this alter ego anything he likes.  All you need to do
is remind the character that what he is learning is not to be learned by
the candidate's real identity.  This is where the split in personality
becomes more apparent.  

People don't realize that you can educate personalities without educating
the whole being.  Mind you, with enough hypnosis, you can draw knowledge
from one personality and feed it to another within the same being, but let
us say that these personality vessels are quite separate and quite
individual to their own programming.  

So, if you train the alter ego to kill with stealth, you may also want to
add suggestions that the true ego "will not understand how to use these
tools, nor remember them being in his possession, but remember only that he
was ordered to keep them in near proximity at all times." (this is the
suggestion I would use, as worded)

The process of using food as a trigger works well because hungry people
more often act out of instinct rather than conditioning.  Thus, we might
also pack triggers and orders into candy bars, so that the target's name is
printed on the coating of the candy bar, and once eaten, the evidence is
ingested, and then, at the end of an assignment, the person is to take out
a specific candy bar, which, by the way, has his name imprinted on it, and
he's to eat the entire top layer, which has his name on it, and when he
does his last swallow, the alter ego will have gone and the main ego will
have returned.

There is the matter of time perception that should be addressed.  People
don't like to feel like the world has changed without their knowledge, and
having personalities turn on and off can also bring the sensation that the
ego which is in the NOW has only just arrived.  This can be problematic,
for we don't want our candidate to realize that anything is out of the
ordinary.  So, we then need to establish an access to event knowledge that
is sufficient in delivering a storyline that's plausible without destroying
believability on the part of the primary ego.  Thus, we need to remind the
person of that point in their conditioning where the candidate was asked to
give "extra attention paid to the scenery and travel..." (just as written
above, but I won't bore you...much)

The rest of the process should be fairly simple and left to the
programmers, and tested.  The phone trigger should get some exercises, with
emphasis on the candidate experiencing disbelief and shock of having
received a call, for the clear ...

read more »

Bribe the Congress with FORTUNE Cookies? :-)

David, I hate to break the news to you, but the MKULTRA model, which
you are using a good part of in this proposition, does NOT work.
That's why the government scrapped the project.

Also, such conditioning tends to depotentiate quite rapidly when the
constant reinforcement is removed, especially in the face of definite
opposition from the victim.  Ask any vet who went through the Hanoi
Hilton, the Korean and Chinese "Re-education Camps" and the like.
Same basic model, with the addition of repeated negative
reinforcement, still failed, uniformly against those who were opposed
to the system and who left the area where constant reinforcement (or
the threat of immediate recapture and a repeat of the whole process)
was present.

But it makes for interesting fantasy/science fiction.

For once, Ed and I agree, this is poppycock.  But, honestly, Ed said
it better.

Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
http://www.leedarrow.com

news:21834-4118DBDE-465@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net...

'though the alpha, beta blah blah model is exceptionally simplistic and
flawed. One-dimensional brain state??

--
Adam Sargant
www.trance-formation.co.uk - creative approaches to personal development

INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW - Most people's minds are MUSH and easily
MALLEABLE. Do you ever wonder why we call crazy peale in-sane and not
out-sane? Do people have to go crazy (break patterns) in order to go
sane (in-sane)? Can you really name ONE person that you think is
two-feet-on-the-ground sane (like the  Gold Standard for sanity)? The
good news is, you don't have to be Chinese to be a Manchurian candidate,
but it may help. Anyone for a fortune cookie? :-)

Eternity Bridge - "The bridge to eternity is built through the hearts
and minds of those who love us. And love is the river that flows forever
beneath it." -Ed McClelland
HypnoTheraPlay(c)
www.HypnoTheraPlay.com             www.DeepTrance.com
DeepTra...@WebTV.Net

(From Coshi Ann Metterson)

"In" is a prefix for "not," like "un," "im," and "an" are.  "Out" is not.
That's your reason.

news:22705-411A22EA-19@storefull-3253.bay.webtv.net...
INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW - Most people's minds are MUSH and easily
MALLEABLE. Do you ever wonder why we call crazy peale in-sane and not
out-sane? Do people have to go crazy (break patterns) in order to go
sane (in-sane)? Can you really name ONE person that you think is
two-feet-on-the-ground sane (like the  Gold Standard for sanity)? The
good news is, you don't have to be Chinese to be a Manchurian candidate,
but it may help. Anyone for a fortune cookie? :-)

Eternity Bridge - "The bridge to eternity is built through the hearts
and minds of those who love us. And love is the river that flows forever
beneath it." -Ed McClelland
HypnoTheraPlay(c)
www.HypnoTheraPlay.com             www.DeepTrance.com
DeepTra...@WebTV.Net

CONDITIONING DEVICES: http://www.perceptions.couk.com/devices.html

Eternity Bridge - "The bridge to eternity is built through the hearts
and minds of those who love us. And love is the river that flows forever
beneath it." -Ed McClelland
HypnoTheraPlay(c)
www.HypnoTheraPlay.com             www.DeepTrance.com
DeepTra...@WebTV.Net

Find a CHINK that is off his NOODLE? :-)

Find a SLOPE that will kill for DOPE? :-)

Ed I take back what I said about you saying it better.  I do not stand
by racist comments like this one, nor the others you have made.

I'm sorry that you have reverted to type - racist asshole (note use of
profanity for emphasis).

Lee Darrow, C.H.
http://www.leedarrow.com

BIRD BRAIN WARNING: The little Sparrow is always trying to make a dent
in someone because he has a CHINK in his ARMOR...

Thanks for proving my point, Ed.  Your racist comments only show that
your "bridge of love" sig line in some of your other posts is total
nonsense as far as your actual actions are concerned.

A racist is someone with a mind that is closed by someone else's
genetic heritage and racial origin.  The racist does not look beyond
the color of someone's skin, the angle of their eyes, the religious
history from which they come they or the accent with which they speak.

Your use of the word "chink" and "gook" prove that you are a racist,
Ed.  No spin possible.

Hence, the Sparrow isn't so bird brained at all, but has hit your
argument more like the Sparrow missile with which you claim to be so
familiar.  Your flame has been shot down IN flames.

Have a happy landing.

Lee Darrow, C.H.
http://www.leedarrow.com

LITTLE SPARROW TAKES A BIRD BATH The word WATER never made anyone WET.
And the word RACIST never made anyone a RACIST. If anything, I'm a HUMAN
RACIST that equally LOVES spicks, kikes, polocks, niggers, wops, micks
(see Potato Heads), krauts, frogs, lime muchers, ragheads, chinks, gooks
(see Sen. John McCain jokes), slopes,  blubber eaters, dotheads,
greasers, beaners, slant-eyes, round-eyes, square-eyes, scalpers, and
politicians. QUESTION-FOR-THE-DAY: Where do unemployed stage hypnotists
find work? ANSWER: As alt.hypnosis PC POLICE...