Gefilte Fish Made Properly
Lori
A Jewish grandmother's 21 steps to the proper preparation of gefilte
fish:
1. Two weeks before a major Jewish holiday, call your daughter and ask
her what she plans to serve at the festive meal. Express your outrage
when
she suggests serving doctored up canned gefilte fish. Offer to make the
fish yourself.
2. Suggest that your daughter take a day off from work so that she can
watch you make the fish, so she'll know how to do it for her kids after
she has put you in The Home. Two days before the holiday, call your
daughter and tell her that you hate to disappoint her but you simply
don't have the strength to make gefilte fish.
3. While your daughter is racing all over looking for a substitute
appetizer, get all dressed up and take a bus...and a subway...and
another
bus...
4. ...to an obscure fish store in a slum where they still sell LIVE
CARP.
5. Examine the carp swimming in the fish tank. Ask the owner if any
fresher carp will be arriving soon.
6. On principle, reject the first two fish that he offers you.
7. Accept the third or fourth. Allow him to fillet and skin the carp
but
NEVER let him put your fish near his electric grinder. Far be it from
you
to accuse someone unjustly, but you know he has ground dead carp in it.
8. Lugging three heavy shopping bags filled with fish, take three buses
home, unless someone has told you about a way of taking four.
9. Call your daughter and tell her that you felt a little bit better
and
decided to go to your special fish store to pick up the carp. You know
how
busy she is right before the holidays so you didn't want to ask her to
drive all the way out there.
10. Tell her how exhausted you are and describe in detail the assassin
who tried to steal your pocketbook as you were boarding the second bus.
Inquire whether your daughter would mind picking you up. You normally
wouldn't ask but it's much easier to make the gefilte fish in her
kitchen
because she has all the latest electric gadgets.
11. Remove several washed mixing bowls from your daughter's dishwasher
and
then rinse them to make sure they are clean.
12. There should be a separate bowl for each ingredient so that dirt
from
the carrots will not get on the celery. Put the diced carrots in one
bowl,
the sliced celery in the second, the chopped onions in the third and
then
combine them all in a fourth bowl. Ask your daughter to stop whatever
she
is doing and come and watch you.
13. Eye your daughter's food processor with suspicion. Ask her to help
you operate it. Chop the carp in it for 15 seconds, then move all the
ingredients into your ancient wooden chopping bowl.
14. Rev up those Hadassah arms and attack the ingredients with a dull
bladed hockmesser for 90 minutes. Demand that your daughter acknowledge
the superiority of your withered arm over a horsepower motor.
15. Place your hand on your chest and moan. Accept your daughter's
offer
to help. Give her the bowl and the hockmesser.
16. Twelve seconds later, snatch the bowl and chopper out of your
daughter's hands. Tell her to watch carefully so she'll be more of a
help
next year. Pulverize the fish with your chopper for another 52 minutes.
17. On the bottom of a cast-iron pot with a non-matching lid (rescued
by your mother during a pogrom and brought in steerage to America),
arrange slices of carrots, onions, celery, fish heads, skin and bones.
18. Form the chopped fish mush into oval patties and lay them gently on
top of the ingredients in the pot.
19. Add liquid and seasonings, bring the pot to a boil, lower to
simmer,
cover the pot and let the fish cook until they're ready and taste
good...but not as good as last year's.
20. After the patties cool, arrange them on a beautiful serving platter
for your daughter and her guests. Dump the heads, skin and bones in a
chipped bowl for yourself. Practice saying that the heads and the bones
are the tastiest portions until you sound convincing.
21. The morning after the holiday, call your daughter and tell her that
you just tasted a piece of bottled fish that was even more delicious
than
what she served last night. Tell her it's a shame she made it from
scratch
when everyone does such wonderful things with canned.
************ Stay in Touch With Your Family! ************
FamilyPoint is a FREE and EASY way to stay in touch with your family!
- Share family messages & photos
- Keep up a family calendar & address book
- Chat or discuss topics with family
- Share and save fun stuff in Family Favorites
- Send Custom Greeting Cards
Send this URL to your relatives and meet them at FamilyPoint!
http://websponsors.com/cgi-bin/ad_click.cgi?userid=3318&offerid=82
**************** Visit FamilyPoint Today! ********************
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lori's Mishmash Jewish Humor Page
http://come.to/jewishjokes
To subscribe, send a message to: mishmash-hum...@egroups.com
To unsubscribe, send a message to:
mishmash-humo...@egroups.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mordechai Housman
By the way, your post was a hoot! I loved it!
Mordechai Housman
--
Visit the Being Jewish web site
http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/beingjewish
and the Being Jewish Bulletin Board, at:
http://www.delphi.com/BeingJewish
norman hechtkoff
Carp and Whitefish. The single fish recipe quoted here, with celery and
other non-Gefilte ingredients, is possibly the work of Iranian secret
agents.
Mordechai Housman wrote in message <371782...@erols.com>...
Mordechai Housman
> The essence of Gefilte Fish is the combining of two types of chopped fish.
> Carp and Whitefish. The single fish recipe quoted here, with celery and
> other non-Gefilte ingredients, is possibly the work of Iranian secret
> agents.
And it's been long forgotten by most people why it's called
"gefilte" fish (which means "filled fish). Though in some communities
today it is called "gemulleneh fish," "ground fish."
See, the ground fish used to be (and still is, in some places) used
as filler in the cleaned out sections of whole fish.
mei...@erols.com
<mord...@erols.com> posted:
>norman hechtkoff wrote:
>> The essence of Gefilte Fish is the combining of two types of chopped fish.
>> Carp and Whitefish. The single fish recipe quoted here, with celery and
>> other non-Gefilte ingredients, is possibly the work of Iranian secret
>> agents.
>
> And it's been long forgotten by most people why it's called
>"gefilte" fish (which means "filled fish). Though in some communities
>today it is called "gemulleneh fish," "ground fish."
>
> See, the ground fish used to be (and still is, in some places) used
>as filler in the cleaned out sections of whole fish.
>
And it's sometimes forgotten that on Shabbes, one is not permitted to
sort the bones from the rest of the fish (or the other way around, I
get mixed up), so this is done in advance by the cook. You can't
serve a whole fish on Shabbes. That's what makes gefilte fish a truly
Jewish food.
Because of a major hard disk crash on 4/15,
I can't download my email for a while.
Please write anyway, and I'll get back to you.
naph...@geocities.com
> "gefilte" fish (which means "filled fish). Though in some communities
> today it is called "gemulleneh fish," "ground fish."
>
small town. I was the first Jew she ever knew.
She called it "guh-lif-tuh" fish.
She asked what Channukah was, but pronounced it "chuh-new-kuh". Mario
told her it was a traditional Eskimo holiday.
I forget the rest of Karen's mispronunciations. We eventually did give
her the full story of Channukah (as well as the correct pronunciation),
and since we had mistreated her so much, we also made her my mother's
potato latkes, my california-latkes (potatoes, onions, parsnips, carrots
and zucchini), and my kugel latkes (basic noodle kugel but fried in
patties so that you get lots more crunchy stuff). I didn't make
sufgoniyot because I don't have a deep fryer.
Arlene L.
Arno Martens wrote:
> NOT cross-posted
>
> On Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:05:50 EDT, naph...@geocities.com , wrote:
>
> >My friend Mario had a roommate when I met him who had grown up in a
> >small town. I was the first Jew she ever knew.
> >
> >She called it "guh-lif-tuh" fish.
> >She asked what Channukah was, but pronounced it "chuh-new-kuh". Mario
> >told her it was a traditional Eskimo holiday.
> >
> It might sound funny to you if some one is mis-pronouncing a word they had never
> heard before (I should know, I've been and still am on the receiving end; ESL
> etc.) but it is not really as bad a calling an Inuit an Eskimo.
>
> Please, do not plead ignorance in this case as you found it to be funny with the
> friend of your friend who did not know better at that time.
> (We all grow up and are ashamed of things we have done in ignorance years ago).
As one who struggles with Spanish and German, who often misspeaks or mispronounces
words, I take no offense when a friend laughs at what I do to there language. Good
friends correct the mispronunciations in private. Often I've found that the
mispronounced word becomes the common expression of the household, whether the
mispronunciation was mine or a child's. These things are seen as endearing. In our
house, we still eat smushed potatoes and matz at the Seder - 30+ years after I said
these things (not a bad trick considering my mother claims only to be 29, but that's
another story.)
As to Eskimo v Inuit, could you please point me towards a source that explains why
Eskimo is a problem. I was up in Alaska and Canada recently, and while the tour
guide indicated that outsiders clumped all these groups as Eskimo or Inuit, only a
particular Canadian branch actually spoke Inuit. There were actually many tribes
present, just as there were many tribes in what is now the "lower 48." All over
Canada and Alaska, stores owned by locals - native and non-native, included signs
that said "Eskimo this" or "Eskimo that". I would assume that if the term was
insulting or derogatory, they would not use it, even in advertising. Can you imagine
a Jew owning a place called "The Kike Deli" just because they lived in an area where
the term was used without thought?
Mordechai Housman
> > See, the ground fish used to be (and still is, in some places) used
> >as filler in the cleaned out sections of whole fish.
> >
> And it's sometimes forgotten that on Shabbes, one is not permitted to
> sort the bones from the rest of the fish (or the other way around, I
> get mixed up), so this is done in advance by the cook. You can't
> serve a whole fish on Shabbes. That's what makes gefilte fish a truly
> Jewish food.
Right, so the fish is deboned and cleaned before Shabbos, and then
ground fish is used to fill up those emptied places. That's why, I
believe, it has been called "gefilte fish."
I think, though, that since it means "filled fish," perhaps that
term was originally used to mean the fish that has been stuffed with the
ground fish, and not the ground fish itself?
Mordechai
Irene Stern Friedman
> Right, so the fish is deboned and cleaned before Shabbos, and then
> ground fish is used to fill up those emptied places. That's why, I
> believe, it has been called "gefilte fish."
> I think, though, that since it means "filled fish," perhaps that
> term was originally used to mean the fish that has been stuffed with the
> ground fish, and not the ground fish itself?
>
and here I thought it was because eating a portion fills you up! Eating a
large portion stuffs you!
Irene
--
geocities.com/Heartland/5013
mei...@erols.com
<mord...@erols.com> posted:
>mei...@erols.com wrote:
>> > See, the ground fish used to be (and still is, in some places) used
>> >as filler in the cleaned out sections of whole fish.
>> >
>> And it's sometimes forgotten that on Shabbes, one is not permitted to
>> sort the bones from the rest of the fish (or the other way around, I
>> get mixed up), so this is done in advance by the cook. You can't
>> serve a whole fish on Shabbes. That's what makes gefilte fish a truly
>> Jewish food.
>
> Right, so the fish is deboned and cleaned before Shabbos, and then
>ground fish is used to fill up those emptied places. That's why, I
>believe, it has been called "gefilte fish."
>
> I think, though, that since it means "filled fish," perhaps that
>term was originally used to mean the fish that has been stuffed with the
>ground fish, and not the ground fish itself?
>
Yes, you're right. You can such a change happening now. They now
sell what they call kishke, known quaintly on menus as 'stuffed derma'
without the kishke. They sell the traditional stuffing and leave out
the small? intestine, which is what kishke is.
There also one non-Jewish dish where this has happened. I'll think of
it eventually.
> Mordechai
>--
>Visit the Being Jewish web site
>http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/beingjewish
>and the Being Jewish Bulletin Board, at:
>http://www.delphi.com/BeingJewish
alohacyberian
<isfeff-2804...@ip71.reading3.pa.pub-ip.psi.net>...
> mord...@erols.com wrote:
>
> and here I thought it was because eating a portion fills you up! Eating a
> large portion stuffs you!
>
naph...@geocities.com
>
> NOT cross-posted
>
> On Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:05:50 EDT, naph...@geocities.com , wrote:
>
> >My friend Mario had a roommate when I met him who had grown up in a
> >small town. I was the first Jew she ever knew.
> >
> >She called it "guh-lif-tuh" fish.
> >She asked what Channukah was, but pronounced it "chuh-new-kuh". Mario
> >told her it was a traditional Eskimo holiday.
> >
> It might sound funny to you if some one is mis-pronouncing a word they had never
> heard before (I should know, I've been and still am on the receiving end; ESL
> etc.) but it is not really as bad a calling an Inuit an Eskimo.
>
> Please, do not plead ignorance in this case as you found it to be funny with the
> friend of your friend who did not know better at that time.
> (We all grow up and are ashamed of things we have done in ignorance years ago).
>
>
I first felt hurt when I read this response to my post. Karen was/is a
friend and remembering her struggle with Hebrew/Yiddush was never meant
to be offensive. The fact is, she tried, and that she was willing to
overcome stereotypes she had grown up with and that she sought to
understand as much of Judaism as she could.
As to Inuit v Eskimo, I was not aware there was a problem, so decided to
do some research. What I found in searching a number of web pages and
writing to their authors for advice was that Eskimo v Inuit is that
Eskimo seems to be the accepted anthropological term for refering to a
number of very diverse cultures living up around the arctic circle. Even
within anthopological circles there is a move towards Inuit, however. In
any case, it is sort of like talking about Jews and labeling them
Semetic. There are three culturally distinct groups of "Native Alaskans"
(the word I had come back in most e-mails about the question) in Alaska.
The Inupiat who can be found on the Seward Peninsula and the King and
Diomede Islands. The Central Yupik live in villages south of Unalakleet,
and Siberian Yupik are on St. Lawrence Island. The Siberian Yupik are
related (they think) to the Chukotka people of the far eastern part of
Russia.
Inuit is actually a tribe that lives in Canada.
Anyway, the view on "Eskimo" is very mixed. None use it for themselves,
but most seem to think it is short of a slur. It is an outside word, one
they do not prefer (and hence one I won't use).
So in the end, thanks for helping me get the information straight. I
learned a lot and met via email several really great people.
alohacyberian
to the word "Indian". The words are in common use but aren't
descriptive of the people they are used to describe. My experience
is that Native Americans (Indians?) from Alaska are quite offended
to be referred to as Eskimos & vice-versa. Wasn't it Mordecai that
noted that university professors are not always an accurate source? KM
--
(-:alohacyberian:-) At my website there are 3000 live cameras or
visit NASA, play games, read jokes, send greeting cards & connect
to CNN news, NBA, the White House, Academy Awards or learn all
about Hawaii, Israel & more: http://home.att.net/~keith.martin/
naph...@geocities.com wrote in article <372862A2...@geocities.com>...
meirm...@erols.com
<keith....@att.net> posted:
>I think it would be fairly accurate to say the word "Eskimo" is akin
>to the word "Indian". The words are in common use but aren't
>descriptive of the people they are used to describe. My experience
>is that Native Americans (Indians?)
Since you mention the word, I will tell a story probably from JHS in
Indianapolis. About 1958, long before anyone talked about this issue,
this teacher was concerned about the fact that Indian was the wrong
word, based on the mistake by Columbus. I guess you might say she was
enlightened, certainly by the standards of that year. The correct
name, she said, is red-skin.
I had never heard that before but kids didn't comment in those days.
True story.
> from Alaska are quite offended
>to be referred to as Eskimos & vice-versa. Wasn't it Mordecai that
>noted that university professors are not always an accurate source? KM
>--
Fred Rosenblatt
> In alt.humor.jewish on Wed, 28 Apr 1999 17:41:16 EDT Mordechai Housman
> <mord...@erols.com> posted:
>
> >mei...@erols.com wrote:
>
> >> > See, the ground fish used to be (and still is, in some places) used
> >> >as filler in the cleaned out sections of whole fish.
> >> >
> >> And it's sometimes forgotten that on Shabbes, one is not permitted to
> >> sort the bones from the rest of the fish (or the other way around, I
> >> get mixed up), so this is done in advance by the cook. You can't
> >> serve a whole fish on Shabbes. That's what makes gefilte fish a truly
> >> Jewish food.
That, and the fact that by extending the fish with matzah meal, etc, even
the poorest family could have enough fish to eat like "kings" on shabbos.
alohacyberian
--
(-:alohacyberian:-) At my website there are 3000 live cameras or
visit NASA, play games, read jokes, send greeting cards & connect
to CNN news, NBA, the White House, Academy Awards or learn all
about Hawaii, Israel & more: http://home.att.net/~keith.martin/
meirm...@erols.com wrote in article <7gaf3a$m9t$2...@autumn.news.rcn.net>...
> In alt.humor.jewish on 29 Apr 1999 19:48:14 GMT "alohacyberian"
> <keith....@att.net> posted:
>
Jack Kessler
sheep. The name of it is on the tip of my keyboard but I can't think of it.
Now it is served without the sheep gut.
mei...@erols.com wrote:
> In alt.humor.jewish on Wed, 28 Apr 1999 17:41:16 EDT Mordechai Housman
> <mord...@erols.com> posted:
>
> >mei...@erols.com wrote:
>
> >> > See, the ground fish used to be (and still is, in some places) used
> >> >as filler in the cleaned out sections of whole fish.
> >> >
> >> And it's sometimes forgotten that on Shabbes, one is not permitted to
> >> sort the bones from the rest of the fish (or the other way around, I
> >> get mixed up), so this is done in advance by the cook. You can't
> >> serve a whole fish on Shabbes. That's what makes gefilte fish a truly
> >> Jewish food.
> >
> > Right, so the fish is deboned and cleaned before Shabbos, and then
> >ground fish is used to fill up those emptied places. That's why, I
> >believe, it has been called "gefilte fish."
> >
> > I think, though, that since it means "filled fish," perhaps that
> >term was originally used to mean the fish that has been stuffed with the
> >ground fish, and not the ground fish itself?
> >
> Yes, you're right. You can such a change happening now. They now
> sell what they call kishke, known quaintly on menus as 'stuffed derma'
> without the kishke. They sell the traditional stuffing and leave out
> the small? intestine, which is what kishke is.
>
> There also one non-Jewish dish where this has happened. I'll think of
> it eventually.
> > Mordechai
>
> >--
> >Visit the Being Jewish web site
> >http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/beingjewish
> >and the Being Jewish Bulletin Board, at:
> >http://www.delphi.com/BeingJewish
>
Leon
Jack Kessler <kes...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:372D5172...@ix.netcom.com...
> Yes, it is that infamous Scottish dish with oatmeal baked in the stomach
of a
> sheep. The name of it is on the tip of my keyboard but I can't think of
it.
> Now it is served without the sheep gut.
Haggis. Ugh.
Leon
Eurasmus B. Black
Colin Rosenthal
Leon <words...@att.net> wrote:
>
>Jack Kessler <kes...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>news:372D5172...@ix.netcom.com...
>of a
>> sheep. The name of it is on the tip of my keyboard but I can't think of
>it.
>> Now it is served without the sheep gut.
>
Hmm. Delicious. (And can even be made kosher - no milk products and all
the bits are from a sheep.)
--
Colin Rosenthal
Astrophysics Institute
University of Oslo
atlguy
On Mon, 3 May 1999 21:01:06 EDT, Jack Kessler <kes...@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:
>Yes, it is that infamous Scottish dish with oatmeal baked in the stomach of a
>sheep. The name of it is on the tip of my keyboard but I can't think of it.
>Now it is served without the sheep gut.
>
>mei...@erols.com wrote:
>
>> In alt.humor.jewish on Wed, 28 Apr 1999 17:41:16 EDT Mordechai Housman
>> <mord...@erols.com> posted:
>>
>> >mei...@erols.com wrote:
>>
>> >> > See, the ground fish used to be (and still is, in some places) used
>> >> >as filler in the cleaned out sections of whole fish.
>> >> >
>> >> And it's sometimes forgotten that on Shabbes, one is not permitted to
>> >> sort the bones from the rest of the fish (or the other way around, I
>> >> get mixed up), so this is done in advance by the cook. You can't
>> >> serve a whole fish on Shabbes. That's what makes gefilte fish a truly
>> >> Jewish food.
>> >
>> > Right, so the fish is deboned and cleaned before Shabbos, and then
>> >ground fish is used to fill up those emptied places. That's why, I
>> >believe, it has been called "gefilte fish."
>> >
>> > I think, though, that since it means "filled fish," perhaps that
>> >term was originally used to mean the fish that has been stuffed with the
>> >ground fish, and not the ground fish itself?
>> >
>> Yes, you're right. You can such a change happening now. They now
>> sell what they call kishke, known quaintly on menus as 'stuffed derma'
>> without the kishke. They sell the traditional stuffing and leave out
>> the small? intestine, which is what kishke is.
>>
>> There also one non-Jewish dish where this has happened. I'll think of
>> it eventually.
>> > Mordechai
>>
>> >--
>> >Visit the Being Jewish web site
>> >http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/beingjewish
>> >and the Being Jewish Bulletin Board, at:
>> >http://www.delphi.com/BeingJewish
>>
David Lloyd-Jones
of a
> sheep. The name of it is on the tip of my keyboard but I can't think of
it.
> Now it is served without the sheep gut.
Haggis. The important part of the recipe is that it has to be cured in the
human stomach in a bath of Scotch whiskey for about a day before it becomes
digestible.
-dlj.
Howard Moss
: Jack Kessler <kes...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
I liked the last part. Took me a minute... If you use kosher Concord
Grape wine, do it turn into Charoset?
--
Howard Moss
hm...@sr.hp.com
Rohnert Park, CA
M.J.Powell
<atl...@home.com> writes
>Haggis, what else?
I used to watch the local villagers on their annual haggis hunt
alongside the lochs in the west of Scotland. The menfolk would chase the
haggis on horseback armed with a long pole with a net on the end. If you
examine a haggis-on-a-plate carefully you can see where the head and
legs have been cut off.
Mike
David Lloyd-Jones
Howard Moss <hm...@sr.hp.com> asked:
> David Lloyd-Jones (ico...@netcom.ca) wrote:
> : Haggis. The important part of the recipe is that it has to be cured in
the
> : human stomach in a bath of Scotch whiskey for about a day before it
becomes
> : digestible.
>
> I liked the last part. Took me a minute... If you use kosher Concord
> Grape wine, do it turn into Charoset?
I dunno. Always remember, their Ganzer Macher is Robbie "Heart" Burns.
-dlj.
David Lloyd-Jones
M.J.Powell <mi...@pickmere.demon.co.uk> wrote
> I used to watch the local villagers on their annual haggis hunt
> alongside the lochs in the west of Scotland. The menfolk would chase the
> haggis on horseback armed with a long pole with a net on the end. If you
> examine a haggis-on-a-plate carefully you can see where the head and
> legs have been cut off.
>
"There they are: gone!"
Reminds me of the fact that George Washington slept in that bed <...> and
there's the bed to prove it.
-dlj.
tony colton
>of a
>> sheep. The name of it is on the tip of my keyboard but I can't think of
>it.
>> Now it is served without the sheep gut.
>
>
>Leon
>
>
>
PLEASE, where can you get kosher haggis????
--
tony colton
Dan Rusen
>
> Yes, it is that infamous Scottish dish with oatmeal baked in the stomach of a
> sheep. The name of it is on the tip of my keyboard but I can't think of it.
> Now it is served without the sheep gut.
>
Jack,
The name of the dish is 'Haggis'. And since when is it served without
the sheep's gut? I assure you that on Robbie Burns nite all haggis is
served in the stomach pouch.
> mei...@erols.com wrote:
>
> > In alt.humor.jewish on Wed, 28 Apr 1999 17:41:16 EDT Mordechai Housman
> > <mord...@erols.com> posted:
> >
> > >mei...@erols.com wrote:
> >
> > >> > See, the ground fish used to be (and still is, in some places) used
> > >> >as filler in the cleaned out sections of whole fish.
> > >> >
> > >> And it's sometimes forgotten that on Shabbes, one is not permitted to
> > >> sort the bones from the rest of the fish (or the other way around, I
> > >> get mixed up), so this is done in advance by the cook. You can't
> > >> serve a whole fish on Shabbes. That's what makes gefilte fish a truly
> > >> Jewish food.
> > >
Since when can't you serve a whole fish on shabbes? Not even my Hasidic
friends tell me this. Separating the bones from the flesh is not the
same as sorting anything or counting anything, as there is no further
purpose for doing so. You might just as well say you can't choose to eat
the red pistachios instead of the white, or carve a chicken. BTW neither
the chickennor the fish would be whole without the head, would it?
They sell the traditional stuffing and leave out
> > the small? intestine, which is what kishke is.
Only the craziest of vegetarians demand this. What good is kishka
without the derma to hold in the stuffing?
> >
> > There also one non-Jewish dish where this has happened. I'll think of
> > it eventually.
I think you mean stuffed baked potato without the skin, right?
Dan Rusen
meirm...@erols.com
<danr...@home.com> posted:
>> > >mei...@erols.com wrote:
>> >
>> > >> > See, the ground fish used to be (and still is, in some places) used
>> > >> >as filler in the cleaned out sections of whole fish.
>> > >> >
>> > >> And it's sometimes forgotten that on Shabbes, one is not permitted to
>> > >> sort the bones from the rest of the fish (or the other way around, I
>> > >> get mixed up), so this is done in advance by the cook. You can't
>> > >> serve a whole fish on Shabbes. That's what makes gefilte fish a truly
>> > >> Jewish food.
>> > >
>Since when can't you serve a whole fish on shabbes? Not even my Hasidic
>friends tell me this. Separating the bones from the flesh is not the
>same as sorting anything or counting anything, as there is no further
>purpose for doing so.
I am no rabbi and I welcome other opinions. Perhaps you could ask a
Hasidic friend to ask his rabbi. I have been told this more than once
by people whose knowledge I trust. (BTW, there are a few things that
Hasidim do differently from other O Jews but one can't assume that
they are always more stringent.)
> You might just as well say you can't choose to eat
>the red pistachios instead of the white,
There is a difference if you're sorting out the minority from the
majority or vice versa, or maybe the difference would be the edible
(useful) from the non-edible (non-useful). Stuff I learned when I was
younger sank in better than later stuff.
> or carve a chicken. BTW neither
>the chickennor the fish would be whole without the head, would it?
I did use the phrase 'whole fish' but the problem isn't the
'wholeness'. It is having to remove bones. Maybe there is an
exception for Hassidim, but you can't serve on Shabbes an otherwise
whole fish whose head has been cut off either. OK, you can serve it,
but only the goyim at the table can remove the bones.
>> > They sell the traditional stuffing and leave out
>> > the small? intestine, which is what kishke is.
>Only the craziest of vegetarians demand this. What good is kishka
>without the derma to hold in the stuffing?
>> >
It might have been clear from the context before other people put
comments in between. I wasn't talking here about what people
demanded, but what the delicatessen sold.
>> > There also one non-Jewish dish where this has happened. I'll think of
>> > it eventually.
>I think you mean stuffed baked potato without the skin, right?
I don't think I've seen that, but it would certainly count. :)
Posted & mailed
>Dan Rusen
Meir meirm...@erols.com
Email working. Catching up on backlog.
Remove QQQ to write and I'll get back to you..
Mordechai Housman
> > mei...@erols.com wrote:
> >
> > > In alt.humor.jewish on Wed, 28 Apr 1999 17:41:16 EDT Mordechai Housman
> > >
> > > >mei...@erols.com wrote:
> > >
> > > >> > See, the ground fish used to be (and still is, in some places) used
> > > >> >as filler in the cleaned out sections of whole fish.
> > > >> >
> > > >> And it's sometimes forgotten that on Shabbes, one is not permitted to
> > > >> sort the bones from the rest of the fish (or the other way around, I
> > > >> get mixed up), so this is done in advance by the cook. You can't
> > > >> serve a whole fish on Shabbes. That's what makes gefilte fish a truly
> > > >> Jewish food.
> > > >
>
> Since when can't you serve a whole fish on shabbes? Not even my Hasidic
> friends tell me this. Separating the bones from the flesh is not the
> same as sorting anything or counting anything,
Er, removing bones from fish is FORBIDDEN on Shabbos, even during
eating. You have to take the fish flesh to eat, and leave behind the
bones. Not just bones, but also any part that is not edible. He was
suggesting, I believe, that therefore many people would remove those
parts before serving the fish, and eventually someone came up with
putting ground fish into it, and eventually someone came up with the
idea of eating just the ground fish.
> as there is no further
> purpose for doing so. You might just as well say you can't choose to eat
> the red pistachios instead of the white, or carve a chicken.
Well, you can, but only if you do it properly. As I wrote above,
you may not remove the unwanted parts during Shabbos. You must take for
yourself the wanted parts, and leave behind the unwanted parts. I'm not
sure about the two differently-colored foods of the same type. I have to
look that one up when I get home. (I log on from work.)
> BTW neither
> the chickennor the fish would be whole without the head, would it?
The fish that I have seen, in which the chopped fish has been
inserted, DOES have its head still there. In any case, its being whole
is completely irrelevant to this Law. The Law applies whether or not it
is whole.
Looking back at what he wrote, I *DO* have to wonder why he said
"you can't serve a whole fish on Shabbos."
meirm...@erols.com
<mord...@erols.com> posted:
> Looking back at what he wrote, I *DO* have to wonder why he said
>"you can't serve a whole fish on Shabbos."
Because once you take out its bones, it's not whole!
tony colton
>>of a
>>> sheep. The name of it is on the tip of my keyboard but I can't think of
>>it.
>>> Now it is served without the sheep gut.
>>
>
>Hmm. Delicious. (And can even be made kosher - no milk products and all
>the bits are from a sheep.)
>
The OED definition is
haggis n.
a Scottish dish consisting of a sheep's or calf's offal mixed with
suet, oatmeal, etc., and boiled in a bag made from the animal's stomach
or in an artificial bag.
Etymology ME: orig. unkn.
--
tony colton
Dr.Matt
>In alt.humor.jewish on Fri, 7 May 1999 19:00:49 EDT Mordechai Housman
><mord...@erols.com> posted:
>
>> Looking back at what he wrote, I *DO* have to wonder why he said
>>"you can't serve a whole fish on Shabbos."
>
>Because once you take out its bones, it's not whole!
Ummm, isn't there a form of pressure-cooked salmon where people eat
the bones, too?
--
Matt Fields, DMA http://listen.to/mattaj TwelveToneToyBox http://start.at/tttb
"They need to get out of the Well-Documented Suburbia of the soul."
--Samuel Vriezen, s...@xs4all.nl on strident anti-modernists
Links & addresses for spammers: http://e-scrub.com/cgi-bin/wpoison/wpoison.cgi
Mordechai Housman
> I did use the phrase 'whole fish' but the problem isn't the
> 'wholeness'. It is having to remove bones. Maybe there is an
> exception for Hassidim, but you can't serve on Shabbes an otherwise
> whole fish whose head has been cut off either. OK, you can serve it,
> but only the goyim at the table can remove the bones.
However, the Jews there can simply (or not always so simply) eat the
edible parts and leave the bones on the plate. Or, they can put a piece
in their mouths and pull the bones out of their mouths, admittedly a
less wise course to take (no pun intended).
Mordechai
OJ:
After spending three hours enduring the long lines, unfriendly
clerks and
ridiculous regulations at the Department of Motor Vehicles, a guy
stopped
at a toy store to pick up a gift for his son. He brought the gift,
a
baseball bat, to the cash register.
"Cash or charge?" the clerk asked. "Cash!" the guy snarled. After
apologizing for his rudeness, he explained, "I'm sorry, I've just
spent
the afternoon at the Motor Vehicle Bureau."
"Shall I gift wrap the bat?" the clerk asked sweetly. "Or, are you
going
back there?"
Mordechai Housman
>
> In alt.humor.jewish on Fri, 7 May 1999 19:00:49 EDT Mordechai Housman
> <mord...@erols.com> posted:
>
> > Looking back at what he wrote, I *DO* have to wonder why he said
> >"you can't serve a whole fish on Shabbos."
>
> Because once you take out its bones, it's not whole!
Shabbos, simply eat the "flesh," leaving behind the bones. Well, maybe
not "simply," but it can be done.
Mordechai
Mordechai Housman
>
> In article <7h2uvp$mag$3...@autumn.news.rcn.net>, <meirm...@erols.com> wrote:
> >In alt.humor.jewish on Fri, 7 May 1999 19:00:49 EDT Mordechai Housman
> ><mord...@erols.com> posted:
> >
> >> Looking back at what he wrote, I *DO* have to wonder why he said
> >>"you can't serve a whole fish on Shabbos."
> >
> >Because once you take out its bones, it's not whole!
>
> the bones, too?
Sometimes small bones evade the selection process when the gefilite fish
is being made.
Fred Rosenblatt
> meirm...@erols.com wrote:
>
> > I did use the phrase 'whole fish' but the problem isn't the
> > 'wholeness'. It is having to remove bones. Maybe there is an
> > exception for Hassidim, but you can't serve on Shabbes an otherwise
> > whole fish whose head has been cut off either. OK, you can serve it,
> > but only the goyim at the table can remove the bones.
>
> However, the Jews there can simply (or not always so simply) eat the
> edible parts and leave the bones on the plate. Or, they can put a piece
> in their mouths and pull the bones out of their mouths, admittedly a
> less wise course to take (no pun intended).
>
> Mordechai
Which is why a "whole" chicken is less problematic - it's a lot easier to
remove meat from a chicken bone than from a fis bone. The essence is to
be consciously aware of what you're doing.
Dan Rusen
>
> In article <372e655f...@news.mindspring.com>, atlguy
> <atl...@home.com> writes
> >Haggis, what else?
>
> alongside the lochs in the west of Scotland. The menfolk would chase the
> haggis on horseback armed with a long pole with a net on the end. If you
> examine a haggis-on-a-plate carefully you can see where the head and
> legs have been cut off.
>
They never got too close did they? The haggis is a legendarily filthy
animal. When it breaks wind you not only smell it; you can see it.
Dan Rusen
MDM
(1,000 years ago!) at
Dollar Academy, Clackmannanshire in Scotland set under a fine backdrop of
the Ochil Hills.
As the only jewish pupil in a large co-ed school with a powerful
Episcopalian tradition, I naturally came in for a lot of stick.
However, I played my own share in mischief-making too. For example, every
year on April Fool's day, I and a small group of friends invited the newest
and most foreign kids (eg an Ethiopian!) to join us for the "ANNUAL HAGGIS
HUNT". This involved rousing them at 6.00am and doing a forced march up
Dollar Hill - usually dark, cold & wet. Every so often, one of us would say
"there it is, quick, look!" etc and the poor sods saw nothing. We told them
that the "HAGGISES" were very, very fast and hard to spot. Without fail,
they believed us! Cruel or what?
Yes, it's yummy stuff haggis and easy to make. First you take a sheep and
kill it then remove its stomach bag which you stuff with various tidbits of
fat, gizzards, giblets + morsels of oatmeal and seasoning. IT TASTES AS GOOD
AS IT SOUNDS especially when served with the traditional badly cooked lumpy
greenish mashed potatoes (incorporating old-style nasty & yucky margarine)
and mashed swedes (cattle-fodder). I usually pass on all this but I do go
for the traditional "nip" of whisky served to numb the tastebuds!
If anyone can't wait to try HAGGIS, it is available by mail order from
various Edinburgh suppliers but if you are in the United Kingdom, just head
for your nearest Stakis Hotel - it is on the Breakfast Menu and they even
put out a bottle of whisky inviting you to have a "nip"!!! I had several
"portions" as recently as Monday morning at the Stakis Hotel here in the
Isle-of-Man.
Mervyn
USEFUL TIP for Isle of Man residents: OLD telephone directories make ideal
personal address books. Simply cross out the names and addresses of people
you DON'T know.
Email: mer...@milleriom.enterprise-plc.com
Webpage: http://homepages.enterprise.net/milleriom
--
cheers
MDM
USEFUL TIP for Isle of Man residents: OLD telephone directories make ideal
personal address books. Simply cross out the names and addresses of people you
DON'T know.
Email:
mer...@milleriom.enterprise-plc.com
Webpage:
http://homepages.enterprise.net/milleriom/
ICQ Communication Centre: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/5726656
M.J.Powell
writes
The pong could knock a horse over, I believe.
Mike
MDM
haggis hunt
alongside the lochs in the west of Scotland. The menfolk would chase the
haggis on horseback armed with a long pole with a net on the end. If you
examine a haggis-on-a-plate carefully you can see where the head and
legs have been cut off."
--------------------if you saw that, then you must have overindulged in the
products of the local distilleries!
Haggis is simply a very big sausage made from various gizzards, barley,
seasoning etc and encased in a sheeps stomach & sewnup.
--
cheers
MDM ("A Celtic Jew raised in the Highlands of Scotland - G-D's Country!)
Annie
Canada is declared a Hunt Haggis Holiday. Further, the Zoo in Toronto
has a l4 pound Haggis that was trapped several years ago. It's the only
one in captivity in Canada.
David Lloyd-Jones
MDM <mer...@milleriom.enterprise-plc.com> wrote
> Haggis is simply a very big sausage made from various gizzards, barley,
> seasoning etc and encased in a sheeps stomach & sewnup.
Obviously a man who still fishes for bass, and hasn't had the pleasure of
trolling for gefilte fish in the clear crystal water of Southern Ontario.
-dlj.
Dan Rusen
>
> Hmmm. Something strange here! The first Monday of every October in
> Canada is declared a Hunt Haggis Holiday. Further, the Zoo in Toronto
> has a l4 pound Haggis that was trapped several years ago. It's the only one in captivity in Canada.
>
Annie,
What they originally thought was a haggis turned out to be only a Great
Western Buck Rabbit, often mistaken for a haggis because of its poor
hygiene and dour disposition - kinda like a Chasidic rabbi being mistook
for an Amish...
Dan Rusen
fka...@megsinet.com
>In article <Ofa33.49622$134.3...@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>, "David Lloyd-Jones"
>filthy fish there... I don't think that fisherment even keep the fish they
>manage to get...
Well maybe parts of Lake Huron and parts of Lake Superior. But you have
to go to Lake of the Woods to find reasonably clear water. It's safe to drink
it but not that clear. In any event I've fished there for almost 45 years and
the fishing ain't getting any better. Also you have to get well away from the
areas close to the roads before you can find much of the fish that thrive in
very clean water.
F.K.
David Lloyd-Jones
>> Obviously a man who still fishes for bass, and hasn't had the pleasure
of
>> trolling for gefilte fish in the clear crystal water of Southern
Ontario.
>
>filthy fish there... I don't think that fisherment even keep the fish they
>manage to get...
Of course it's crystal clear: it's been gefilterd through the gills of the
eponymous fish.
-dlj.