Dreamweaver or frontpage
Abdullah Kahn
am prepared to pay for a good progran.
TIA
Beauregard T. Shagnasty
> Which one do I need to buy ? Which is the best ?? Price doesn't matter
> , I am prepared to pay for a good progran.
Notepad. And there's a bonus; it is free.
--
-bts
-Four wheels carry the body; two wheels move the soul
Doug Miller
>Which one do I need to buy ? Which is the best ?? Price doesn't matter , I
>am prepared to pay for a good progran.
Neither one. Both of them produce bloated crap HTML. Dreamweaver has the
additional "advantage" of being difficult to use. FrontPage is just garbage.
richard
save your money and use notepad.
Plenty of free programs to use as decent html editors.
Dreamweaver is bloatware and frontpage just plainly sucks.
Abdullah Kahn
dreamweaver ?
P E Schoen
news:QIWdnVvfGNbiSHnR...@brightview.co.uk...
> What do the professionals use ?? Do they do all of the coding or use
> dreamweaver ?
You can sometimes look at the source code for professional-looking websites
similar to what you want to see what was used to create the HTML. For a
full-featured website you will probably need JavaScript or the equivalent
for dynamic pages, and it will almost certainly also involve CGI which may
be written in Perl or PHP or the like, and also a server-side database which
may be MySQL or SQLite. There are separate newsgroups for all of these tools
and it is probably the equivalent of a four year college experience to
become fluent in all these.
I have learned enough in a few months of effort to create useful websites
with bits and pieces of all these tools, but I had previous experience with
simple HTML and some programming and database experience, so JavaScript,
Perl, and SQLite were mostly just learning the syntax and quirks of a new
language.
Many people have recommended WordPress and I have also done a little bit
with DotCMS. These are content management applications that allow you to
build a website rather quickly, but you are somewhat constrained by the
canned modules you must use. I like the challenge of building things from
scratch, but I have also relied heavily on other websites as examples, and
code snippets I have found online, and the help of many kind and patient
folks on newsgroups. Newbies with "dumb" questions are not usually well
received, so you will need to make a lot of effort on your own before asking
for and expecting help.
Good luck.
Paul
Brian Cryer
news:19SdnWvi9qUxP3nR...@brightview.co.uk...
> Which one do I need to buy ? Which is the best ?? Price doesn't matter , I
> am prepared to pay for a good progran.
I don't think you can get frontpage any more, it was replaced by Microsoft
Expression Web a couple of years back. Expression Web is very good, and I
have no hesitation about recommending it. I've not used Dreamweaver but I
assume that the latest version is as good in its own way.
Since you've asked about frontpage I assume you are new. In which case
learning the basics of html would be a good place to start. Whilst the
"notepad" suggestions of others is a reasonable place to start, you will
soon out-grow it and want a better tool. Expression (and DW) are both
wysiwyg tools. I like Expression, but I also keep an eye on the html it
produces - its good to know what its producing and I sometimes edit the html
directly. There are a number of free html tools available but I'm not aware
of any wysiwyg ones.
Depending on what you ultimatly want to achieve then html might only be part
of the story. If you want to have more than static pages then you will need
to consider server side scripting, in which case you will need to consider
PHP or ASP.NET. These both in turn generate HTML, but its the logic and
processing that they make available to you which allows them to do more
interesting things. You will need a host which supports their use. Microsoft
provide "express" versions of their developer tools which mean you can get a
really good editor and debugger for ASP.NET for free (but hosting costs more
than it would for PHP).
Hope this helps.
--
Brian Cryer
http://www.cryer.co.uk/brian
Kevin Scholl
> Neither one. Both of them produce bloated crap HTML. Dreamweaver has the
> additional "advantage" of being difficult to use. FrontPage is just garbage.
Both claims regarding Dreamweaver are untrue, the key being that you'd
need to spend about 10 minutes in the Preferences to set it up
properly. But after doing so, it can generate (X)HTML code as clean as
hand coding, and can be quite simple to use.
Contrary to another reply, neither DW nor Expression Web are
WYSIWYG ... in fact, there really is no such thing. They may be
WYSIA(lmost)WYG with regard to simple Web pages. However, as another
reply noted, when you start to get into more complex sites that move
beyond primarily HTML, DW does have limitations and in particular, the
Javascript it generates is lousy.
Like everything else, these are TOOLS. Best advice is to utilize trial
versions (of these and other programs) and use what you are most
comfortable with, and what produces the results you want.
Abdullah Kahn
much appreciated. I should perhaps explain that I taught myself html using
the 'html 4.0 made simple' book by the mcbrides so I have a basic knowledge
of html. I am also using dreamweaver 4 which I purchSED many years ago. I
did the website at www.northamptoninterfaithforum.org.uk so you can see an
example of my work there, it's very basic but I quite like it.
I think maybe the solution for me is to both learn the code AND use
dreamweaver.
One other question, I presume I need to get a book on html 5.0 ?.
Abdullah Kahn
Jeremy J Starcher
> What do the professionals use ?? Do they do all of the coding or use
> dreamweaver ?
Me?
I use a basic programmer's editor... though which one I use kind of
depends at that particular moment.
Jedit has a nice HTML reformat plugin, as well as the ability to reindent
Javascript.
On the other hand, Notepad++ is zippy on my Eee 701.
Andy Dingley
> Which one do I need to buy ?
Neither, they're both quite the wrong approach.
HTML, by its core design, doesn't need complicated editors to work it.
A programmer's text editor is the right level: powerful editing
features like regex searches / replaces and also colour highlighting
and tag closure, but not trying to get between the coder and the
source code. I mostly use jEdit (free download) for just HTML or
Eclipse (free download) when working with other languages.
What you do need is knowledge. "Head First HTML" is the best tutorial
book around or htmldog if you _must_ have a website instead. Lie &
Bos' CSS book is a good follow up. After reading these, learn what
"valid code" is, learn to use a validator (W3C online, or else Mark
Geuery's HTML Validator plugin for Firefox) and start reading the
source materials on the W3C website (_not_ w3cschools, which is
rubbish).
DLU
the respondents here, do not need one of these prestructured programs.
I like Expression Web as it allows me to store the website in a file,
and when I open it, I see all the pages and files that it uses. It also
allows you to open several pages at one time, and the FTP is easy to
use. It has ready made pages, but if you use them, you have to modify
them to fit your style. It also lets you see all your CSS files.
It is not a substitute for good coding that allows you to use a wrapper,
and to insert thumbnails. Dreamweaver allows you to do all these things
for about $700, against $98 for Expression Web. Most people go to a six
month class to learn the basics of Dreamwerver. it is not an intuitive
program.
--
***************************************
* This is the Spammish Inquisition *
* Not Lumber Cartel Unit 75 [TINLC] *
* I am not SPEWS.ORG *
***************************************
P E Schoen
> You are asking people who can write HTML in a word processor. Most of the
> respondents here, do not need one of these prestructured programs.
I use PerlEdit which has a free edition. It's handy for HTML as well as CGI
code (Perl) which must be in UNIX format. The MS Notepad does not have that
option.
Sometimes I have saved emails in HTML format and the results are fairly
clean, but I still need to do some touch-up with a text editor. I've also
used MS Word and Open Office Writer for some HTML pages, but they tend to be
ugly HTML code.
Those are just shortcuts to get a page of information on the website
quickly, and it allows others to give me content in a form that they would
like to see on the website.
Paul
Doug Miller
>On Nov 17, 11:20=A0pm, spamb...@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:
>
>> Neither one. Both of them produce bloated crap HTML. Dreamweaver has the
>ge.
>
>Both claims regarding Dreamweaver are untrue, the key being that you'd
>need to spend about 10 minutes in the Preferences to set it up
>properly. But after doing so, it can generate (X)HTML code as clean as
>hand coding, and can be quite simple to use.
You've apparently confused Dreamweaver with some other product that's actually
easy to use.
Adrienne Boswell
<abdu...@hotmailno.co.uk> writing in
news:19SdnWvi9qUxP3nR...@brightview.co.uk:
> Which one do I need to buy ? Which is the best ?? Price doesn't matter
> , I am prepared to pay for a good progran.
>
> TIA
>
>
I would recommend neither. I prefer a plain text editor with syntax
highlighting.
I used HTML-Kit 292 for years - it's free, has hundreds of plugins,
integrates with HTML-Tidy, ability to save your own snippets and
templates, etc... and it's free.
But, I also registered my HTML-Kit, and have been using HTML-Kit Tools
(300) for about a year. I love it! It has all the attributes of 292,
plus some great improvements, code folding, matching brackets (I really
love that one), code explorer, projects, docment compare, and the list
goes on.
If you want to work with a good text editor, give Tools a try:
http://chami.com/html-kit/tools/
--
Adrienne Boswell at Home
Arbpen Web Site Design Services
http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
Please respond to the group so others can share
P E Schoen
"Adrienne Boswell" wrote in message
news:Xns9E34DF6285B8...@81.169.183.62...
> I would recommend neither. I prefer a plain text editor with syntax
> highlighting.
> I used HTML-Kit 292 for years - it's free, has hundreds of plugins,
> integrates with HTML-Tidy, ability to save your own snippets and
> templates, etc... and it's free.
> But, I also registered my HTML-Kit, and have been using HTML-Kit Tools
> (300) for about a year. I love it! It has all the attributes of 292,
> plus some great improvements, code folding, matching brackets (I really
> love that one), code explorer, projects, docment compare, and the list
> goes on.
> If you want to work with a good text editor, give Tools a try:
> http://chami.com/html-kit/tools/
I'm giving it a try. It seems pretty good, but I don't think it will work
for CGI scripts in Perl, which requires UNIX style line separators. That's
where PerlEdit is good. And I don't know if this editor will help with
JavaScript. I guess there might not be any one tool that "does it all", but
if there is, it is probably costly.
What are the limitations of the free version, and what does a registered
full copy cost?
Paul
Beauregard T. Shagnasty
> "Adrienne Boswell" wrote:
>> I would recommend neither. I prefer a plain text editor with syntax
>> highlighting.
> ...
> I'm giving it a try. It seems pretty good, but I don't think it will
> work for CGI scripts in Perl, which requires UNIX style line
> separators. That's where PerlEdit is good. And I don't know if this
> editor will help with JavaScript. I guess there might not be any one
> tool that "does it all", but if there is, it is probably costly.
Have a look at Bluefish.
I've been using it for years. And the price is right, free.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluefish_%28text_editor%29
Versions for all major operating systems:
http://bluefish.openoffice.nl/
It is quite like Crimson Editor, which I used back in the day when I had
Windows computers...
Peter
spam...@milmac.com says...
It's not difficult to use. I don't use it as a design tool though, just
as a coding tool and for that purpose it's more than suitable.
--
Pete Ives
Remove All_stRESS before sending me an email
Sherm Pendley
> I'm giving it a try. It seems pretty good, but I don't think it will
> work for CGI scripts in Perl, which requires UNIX style line
> separators.
*Any* programmer's editor will work with different line separators,
even the most half-baked ones. It's a very, very basic feature.
sherm--
--
Sherm Pendley
<http://camelbones.sourceforge.net>
Cocoa Developer
Adrienne Boswell
<pa...@pstech-inc.com> writing in news:mGoFo.37400$3f.1...@newsfe12.iad:
The beta version build 300 is an almost complete rewrite of 292. Have a
look at 292, download the free trial of 300 and compare them. Once you
register build 292 for $59.00 you get Tools (300) and other software.
JussiJ
> Which one do I need to buy ? Which is the best ?? Price doesn't
> matter , I am prepared to pay for a good program.
If you work on the Windows platform then you might want to take a
look at the Zeus IDE.
Zeus has the standard sort of HTML features like syntax highlighting
code folding, ftp/sftp editing, integrated source control etc.
But it does a few other things like Zen coding:
http://www.zeusedit.com/zforum/viewtopic.php?p=5139
and easy HTML validation:
http://www.zeusedit.com/zforum/viewtopic.php?t=194
Jussi Jumppanen
Author: Zeus for Windows IDE
mcnewsxp
if you're just doing HTML dreamweaver may be more than you need. it
does offer a design view so you can see what you're building. if
you're doing ASP or ASP.NET or you're want to integrate with fireworks
you might like it.
frontpage adds a lot of unneeded HTML junk that makes your code hard
to read.
notepad++ is free and there's probably others.
Kevin Scholl
> In article <95e59bbf-b79c-4856-b85c-4119252cd...@r29g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>, Kevin Scholl <ksch...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >On Nov 17, 11:20=A0pm, spamb...@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:
>
> >> Neither one. Both of them produce bloated crap HTML. Dreamweaver has the
> >> additional "advantage" of being difficult to use. FrontPage is just garba=
> >ge.
>
> >Both claims regarding Dreamweaver are untrue, the key being that you'd
> >need to spend about 10 minutes in the Preferences to set it up
> >properly. But after doing so, it can generate (X)HTML code as clean as
> >hand coding, and can be quite simple to use.
>
> You've apparently confused Dreamweaver with some other product that's actually
> easy to use.
You've apparently never tried it yourself ... and ten minutes in the
trial doesn't count. Dreamweaver isn't hard to use, or to set up,
unless you're in a hurry and can't take a few minutes to learn the lay
of the land. Another poster's claim that "most people" take a 6-month
course in DW to learn how to use it is rubbish as well. DW is no
harder to learn to use than an Office application.
P E Schoen
news:1b277e67-56f9-4d2b...@s16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
> if you're just doing HTML dreamweaver may be more than you
> need. it does offer a design view so you can see what you're
> building. if you're doing ASP or ASP.NET or you're want to
> integrate with fireworks you might like it.
> frontpage adds a lot of unneeded HTML junk that makes
> your code hard to read.
> notepad++ is free and there's probably others.
That does seem like a good choice. I now have a copy of HTML-kit and maybe
I'll try Notepad++.
I would like an editor that can handle various types of files such as HTML,
JavaScript, Perl, and even occasionally PIC assembly code, C++ and Borland
Delphi. They have their own IDEs so a separate editor is just a convenience.
But it's better than Windows Notepad for sure. I'd also like an option to
read and edit binary files in hex. And good conversions from older programs
like Wordstar. There are many choices and maybe it's just as well to have
separate applications for various purposes rather than trying to find an
"all-in-one" solution.
Paul
Patrick James
> What do the professionals use ?? Do they do all of the coding or use
> dreamweaver ?
I'm not a professional but the people I know who make websites for a
living use a variety of programs.
I do quite like Dreamweaver but in fact I use a text edtior called
BBEdit on my Mac for most things.
I think the issue behind your initial question is not "which program"
but rather that you really do need to apply yourself to learning HTML
and CSS to make good websites.
Fortunately HTML and CSS are quite easy to learn. They are designed to
be so and you will enjoy the experience of learning them.
So, I think the best way to start with creating websites is to use a
simple text editor and get a book or two.
There are loads of good books around and lots of good info on the web
of course.
--
Patrick
Jim S
I agree about the book and I use MS Expression Web (the successor to
Frontpage). However Komposer is worth a look. It's free, but not always
accurate, which is where the book comes in handy.
--
Jim S
Tyneside UK
www.jimscott.co.uk
Sherm Pendley
> On 2010-11-18 07:27:58 +0000, Abdullah Kahn said:
>
>> What do the professionals use ?? Do they do all of the coding or use
>> dreamweaver ?
>
> I think the issue behind your initial question is not "which program"
> but rather that you really do need to apply yourself to learning HTML
> and CSS to make good websites.
This. A thousand times, this.
It's a bit like asking "should I buy Kobalt hand tools, or Craftsman?"
Neither one will be of much use to you without some basic skills, and
*with* such skills either brand is perfectly adequate.
notbob
Dreamweaver has one major feature that's incredibly helpfull to new
html coders, like myself. When the first tag of an element is
completed, a cursor menu automatically pops up with a list of all the
attribute options. This is very helpful to noobs who are still
learning the code. Also, other features, like auto completion and
closing tag insistance make it easier for us noobs. I, being a linux
user, use the KDE desktop and its Quanta+ editor, which is very
similar to Dreamweaver.
nb
Patrick James
> Dreamweaver has one major feature that's incredibly helpfull to new
> html coders, like myself. When the first tag of an element is
> completed, a cursor menu automatically pops up with a list of all the
> attribute options. This is very helpful to noobs who are still
> learning the code. Also, other features, like auto completion and
> closing tag insistance make it easier for us noobs. I, being a linux
> user, use the KDE desktop and its Quanta+ editor, which is very
> similar to Dreamweaver.
Hi
Yes I agree these things are very useful.
I only know text editors for the Mac, but I will mention that I think
that you can find features a bit like this in some of those text
editors. I am sure this is also the case with PCs.
I have Dreamweaver because I do some work for a university and this
means that I am able to buy the whole Adobe suite for very low money.
At the student/academic rate I think it is a good deal.
--
Patrick
notbob
> means that I am able to buy the whole Adobe suite for very low money.
> At the student/academic rate I think it is a good deal.
Lucky you! I remember when it was by Macromedia and only cost about
$150. Now that Adobe has it, it's up around $300, street. Adobe's
blatant greed is absolutley appalling. Thank goodness for Linux.
I use Quanta Plus, which has most of the better features of
Dreamweaver, but is free. On the downside, Quanta Plus is only for
Linux. If you have a Mac or PC, you can get Quanta Gold, a pay-for
version, but it's still only a paltry $40.
nb
Phillip Jones
cost about $650.00. Then I got next version upgrade for about 200.00
Finally just before Acrobat took over I got the Studio-8 Package as an
upgrade to next version for about $250.00.
I'd love to upgrade to Studio-8's successor but I need an Intel Mac
First. Then to come up with the 1K or more for the upgrade. The Flash
application doesn't interest me. But the The Flash application and
DreamWeaver Applications do.
--
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T. "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/ mailto:pjo...@kimbanet.com
notbob
> You must be a lot older than me.
DOH!!
I'm older, alright. So old, I've been having a day-long geezer
moment! All this time I've been thinking Dreamweaver when I really
meant Homesite, an html editor which Adobe abandoned last year. Sorry
about that, everyone. :(
nb
Ed Mullen
Lord! And I thought I spent a lot of money on software!
But what sw I spend money on I do because I can't do it any other way.
Like Cakewalk, Sound Forge, Paint Shop Pro etc. Unlike HTML and CSS
which I can do with Notepad. Well, and a lot of time and effort
learning. But, hey, we all have our own toys. To each his own.
--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
Why is a man who invests all your money called a broker?