Hemlock Grove

[Kishin]

Have any of you been watching this? It's a Netflix original, so if you
have streaming, you can watch it. And if you don't, there's always
Nigel. I'm liking it enough, which means you lot will probably hate it,
but I've been wrong before. It's only 12 episodes, so you're not
committing to a long, ongoing series, and is co-written by the author of
the novel, FWIW.

Near the beginning of the series, a half a girl is found dead in the
woods, and it appears a wolf was the culprit. The story focuses on a
poor, teen gipsy who lives in a trailer with a direct view of a huge
mansion, in which lives a rich teen and his family. The rich kid is
played by Bill Skarsg�rd, brother of that bloke in "True Blood." The
gipsy kid is apparently a werewolf, but being of good heart, appears to
take measures to prevent killing anyone (I'm not clear on that at the
5th episode). The real killer appears to be some kind of super-evil
werewolf, and the gipsy and the rich kid set out to find it. The rich
kid's mom is played by the very MILFy Famke Janssen. They don't have a
good relationship, and at one point, he offers to buy her some batteries
for her vibrator while he's out. He also has some kind of mind control
powers. When some asshole kids are tormenting his autistic(?) sister at
school, he tells one to kiss the other, causing the two great
embarrassment in front of a crowd of students. There are lots of weird
characters, including a pretty but morbid girl who is an aspiring novelist.

Five episodes in, there's been a bit of gore, and a few horrific bits,
but mostly it's kind of a drama. The very quick shots of the werewolf
are quite impressive and I can't wait to see more of it. I've been
enjoying it and I like that it will have a definite end. Though I did
just read that the author of the novel has written a sequel and is
working on a third, so if this one is a success, we may get adaptations
of those, as well.

Worth a look, IMO.

--

Kishin

[the dog from that film you saw]

On 15/05/2013 00:07, Kishin wrote:
> Have any of you been watching this? It's a Netflix original, so if you
> have streaming, you can watch it. And if you don't, there's always
> Nigel. I'm liking it enough, which means you lot will probably hate it,
> but I've been wrong before. It's only 12 episodes, so you're not
> committing to a long, ongoing series, and is co-written by the author of
> the novel, FWIW.
>

i've certainly been considering it - but werewolves have never really
got me.
i'm afraid it will be like a tv series of twilight but with werewolves
in place of vampires.

--
Gareth.
That fly.... Is your magic wand.

[Kishin]

I wouldn't put in in nearly the same league as "Twilight." I actually
tried watching the first one, and it nearly turned my stomach. This one
is produced by Eli Roth. Love him or hate him, he is into serious
horror, not teen soaps with horror trappings.

--

Kishin

[Dr Walpurgis]

Kishin <no...@yobizz.ness> wrote:

> I wouldn't put in in nearly the same league as "Twilight." I actually
> tried watching the first one, and it nearly turned my stomach. This one
> is produced by Eli Roth. Love him or hate him, he is into serious horror,
> not teen soaps with horror trappings.

Eli Roth is the last hope of the American genre. I'm really looking forward
to THE GREEN INFERNO.

[Kishin]

I'm surprised you agree with me. While I've found his works imperfect, I
do feel his heart is in the right place. In a jar on his desk.

--

Kishin

[Mr Q. Z. Diablo]

In article <kn2bgd$s74$2...@dont-email.me>, Kishin <no...@yobizz.ness>
wrote:

Thanks, Mr Bloch.

Roth's main problem is that he's friends with Fucktard Tarantino.

[Dr Walpurgis]

I greatly admire HOSTEL and HOSTEL 2. I didn't think any director, least of
all an American, still had the cojones to turn in movies like that.

[Adam Dolan]

On May 16, 1:29 pm, Dr Walpurgis <burke.denni...@cunting.hun> wrote:

I actually liked HOSTEL 2 better. Better story and no eye gags. :P
But both are strong medicine.

[Mr Q. Z. Diablo]

In article
<7d985916-3013-4703...@a8g2000yqp.googlegroups.com>,

HOSTEL 2 was a far more thoughtful film to my mind. The first
instalment was OK but somewhat soiled itself with the revenge
wish-fulfilment fantasy at the end.

[Lesmond]

<sigh> You mean Academy Award winner Fucktard Tarantino.

That said, I have no problem with the man and enjoy his movies immensely.

The ones I've bothered to watch, anyway.

--
If there's a nuclear winter, at least it'll snow.

[Mr Q. Z. Diablo]

In article <yrfzbaqirevmbaar...@192.168.0.6>,

I have liked a couple of Tarantino's films but with the knowledge that
they were obvious ripoffs. I have loathed most of them beyond measure,
partly because they were obvious ripoffs and partly because his smugness
infects just about every piece of his art.

[Kishin]

Mr Q. Z. Diablo wrote:

I avoided the first one for a long time, as it was labeled "torture
porn," but when I finally broke down and watched it, I enjoyed it. The
end was actually my favorite part. I love revenge.

--

Kishin

[Lesmond]

We all have our threshholds of tolerance. Mine is high for him.

[Dr Walpurgis]

Kishin <no...@yobizz.ness> wrote:

>>>>>>> I wouldn't put in in nearly the same league as "Twilight." I actually
>>>>>>> tried watching the first one, and it nearly turned my stomach. This one
>>>>>>> is produced by Eli Roth. Love him or hate him, he is into serious
>>>>>>> horror,
>>>>>>> not teen soaps with horror trappings.
>>>>
>>>>>> Eli Roth is the last hope of the American genre. I'm really looking
>>>>>> forward
>>>>>> to THE GREEN INFERNO.
>>>>
>>>>> I'm surprised you agree with me. While I've found his works imperfect, I
>>>>> do feel his heart is in the right place. In a jar on his desk.
>>>>
>>>> I greatly admire HOSTEL and HOSTEL 2. I didn't think any director, least of
>>>> all an American, still had the cojones to turn in movies like that.
>>>
>>> I actually liked HOSTEL 2 better. Better story and no eye gags. :P
>>> But both are strong medicine.
>>
>> HOSTEL 2 was a far more thoughtful film to my mind. The first
>> instalment was OK but somewhat soiled itself with the revenge
>> wish-fulfilment fantasy at the end.
>
> I avoided the first one for a long time, as it was labeled "torture
> porn," but when I finally broke down and watched it, I enjoyed it. The
> end was actually my favorite part. I love revenge.

The horror of HOSTEL is not in the "torture porn", but in the utter
hopelessness of the situation for the victims. It's the kind of nihilistic
horror we've rarely seen since since the early eighties, and it's frankly
astonishing that a major studio for behind it.

The sequel pleasingly indulges Roth's fellow Euro fanboys, and the switch
to reselling the same story from the point of view of the "customers" was a
smart way to approach it.

I can't bring myself to watch the unrelated third one.

[Kishin]

The third was was okay as a piece of dumb entertainment, but it
certainly has it detractors. Lots of nice revenge, which, as I've
mentioned, I enjoy.

--

Kishin

[Kishin]

There's an interesting article in Psychology Today about creativity. One
part of it focuses on copyright and the fact that most creative works
are basically reworkings of previous works. I think Stephen King pointed
out that there are only about 7 basic horror stories, and every one ever
written is simply a variation on those. The article in PT cites "West
Side Story" as being a "ripoff" of "Romeo and Juliette." I think this is
largely true. How many TRULY original works of art are there in the
world, ones that owe nothing to previous works? Very few, I suspect.
While Tarrantino wears his influences on his sleeve, I find him a very
talented (if somewhat self-indulgent) film maker. I have been
disappointed in very few of his films ("Deathproof" is the only one that
comes to mind). I quite enjoyed "Django Unchained," for instance. And
you have to admit, he doesn't even claim to be original. For fuck's
sake, he took the name of his character from an older film, and had a
cameo by the star of that film. It's not like he's trying to hide
anything. I see him as the equivalent of today's music acts whose works
consist of remixes/munges/what have you of existing music. While I'm not
into that kind of music, myself, I'll admit that my preferred subgenre,
power pop, is highly formulaic and also wears its influences proudly on
its sleeve. And if QT is smug, well, he has a right to be. He makes good
movies, and is highly respected among other film makers. Not bad for
someone who started out as a video store clerk. Give the man his due.

--

Kishin

[Adam Dolan]

On May 16, 11:48 pm, "Lesmond" <lesm...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 17 May 2013 11:15:41 +1000, Mr Q. Z. Diablo wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> >In article <yrfzbaqirevmbaarg.mmx2v63.pmin...@192.168.0.6>,

> > "Lesmond" <lesm...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >> On Thu, 16 May 2013 23:12:47 +1000, Mr Q. Z. Diablo wrote:
>

> >> >In article <kn2bgd$s7...@dont-email.me>, Kishin <n...@yobizz.ness>
> >> >wrote:
>
> >> >> Dr Walpurgis wrote:

> >> >> > Kishin <n...@yobizz.ness> wrote:
>
> >> >> >> I wouldn't put in in nearly the same league as "Twilight." I actually
> >> >> >> tried watching the first one, and it nearly turned my stomach. This one
> >> >> >> is produced by Eli Roth. Love him or hate him, he is into serious
> >> >> >> horror,
> >> >> >> not teen soaps with horror trappings.
>
> >> >> > Eli Roth is the last hope of the American genre. I'm really looking
> >> >> > forward
> >> >> > to THE GREEN INFERNO.
>
> >> >> I'm surprised you agree with me. While I've found his works imperfect, I
> >> >> do feel his heart is in the right place. In a jar on his desk.
>
> >> >Thanks, Mr Bloch.
>
> >> >Roth's main problem is that he's friends with Fucktard Tarantino.
>
> >> <sigh>  You mean Academy Award winner Fucktard Tarantino.
>
> >> That said, I have no problem with the man and enjoy his movies immensely.
>
> >> The ones I've bothered to watch, anyway.
>
> >I have liked a couple of Tarantino's films but with the knowledge that
> >they were obvious ripoffs.  I have loathed most of them beyond measure,
> >partly because they were obvious ripoffs and partly because his smugness
> >infects just about every piece of his art.
>
> We all have our threshholds of tolerance.  Mine is high for him.
>
> --
> If there's a nuclear winter, at least it'll snow.

Ditto. I fucking LOVE Django Unchained.

[Adam Dolan]

On May 17, 2:42 am, Dr Walpurgis <burke.denni...@cunting.hun> wrote:

Don't. It's terrible. Director Scott Speigel as done interesting, or
at least fun, movies (Intruder, From Dusk To Dawn 2). This isn't one
of them. It's standard no-budget DTV garbage without an ounce of
creativity.

[Mr Q. Z. Diablo]

In article <kn4r4j$2h5$1...@dont-email.me>, Kishin <no...@yobizz.ness>
wrote:

You lost me at "he makes good movies".

[Mr Q. Z. Diablo]

Hairy muff. Takes all kinds and all that.

[Mr Q. Z. Diablo]

In article <kn40bs$qbq$1...@dont-email.me>, Kishin <no...@yobizz.ness>
wrote:

Seemed more than a bit contrived to me. I would have actually found a
bleaker ending to be more in keeping with the way the film developed.
The second film very nearly got that right, were it not for the silly
comedic touches.

[Mr Q. Z. Diablo]

In article
<1934567954390465620.497215...@news.eternal-septe
mber.org>,

It's shit but not completely unenjoyable. My expectations were very low
but it actually belted along at a reasonable clip and kept me watching
so can't be totally written off.

[Dr Walpurgis]

Adam Dolan <adol...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ditto. I fucking LOVE Django Unchained.

DJANGO and BASTERDS are brilliant movies.

[ReVulse]

On Fri, 17 May 2013 16:35:40 +0000, Dr Walpurgis wrote:

> DJANGO and BASTERDS are brilliant movies.

Originals or remakes?

--
#Andy#

[Lesmond]

Yep. I love revenge movies. So satisfying when done well.

[Mr Q. Z. Diablo]

In article <kn5okn$71i$2...@dont-email.me>,

INGLOURIOUS BASTERDS left me gasping at how a film with that much action
in it can be so deadly dull.

And, while I'm at it, I fucking despise Tarantino's dialogue style. It
almost always sounds like a demented, ageing hipster having a
conversation with himself.

[ReVulse]

On Fri, 17 May 2013 15:13:42 -0400, Lesmond wrote:

> Yep. I love revenge movies. So satisfying when done well.

I have a great idea for a revenge film, but it is so thoroughly nasty it
would never get made. Even I'm sickened by some of the ideas I have.

--
#Andy#

[Lesmond]

Well, now you have to tell us.

[Kishin]

Lesmond wrote:
> On Sat, 18 May 2013 12:09:41 +0000 (UTC), ReVulse wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 17 May 2013 15:13:42 -0400, Lesmond wrote:
>>
>>> Yep. I love revenge movies. So satisfying when done well.
>>
>> I have a great idea for a revenge film, but it is so thoroughly nasty it
>> would never get made. Even I'm sickened by some of the ideas I have.
>
> Well, now you have to tell us.

Yes! Don't be a tease!

--

Kishin

[the dog from that film you saw]

look, she dumped you - get over it.

--
Gareth.
That fly.... Is your magic wand.

[Kishin]

I finished watching this yesterday, and I have to give it a thumbs up.
Some here may be put off by the meandering plot, but I thought it all
came together well enough. The werewolves occupied only a small amount
of screen time, being more a catalyst than the central plot point. Lots
of weirdness going on. When we finally did see the werewolves, they were
of the real wolf kind. No CGI as far as I could tell. The battling
wolves looked real to me. The ending was suitably grim, so that even TWL
MIGHT enjoy it. They did leave it open for sequels, as most of the final
episode was d�nouement, the big werewolf battle taking place in the
first 10 minutes, and the rest of the time filling in details on
characters and as of yet unresolved plot points, as well as setting
things up for the sequel (I mentioned earlier that there's already a
second book and the author is working on a third). I really liked a lot
of the characters, many of whom fell somewhere along the freaky
spectrum. I would recommend it, though I'm sure some here will find
something to grouse about.

And yes, I ended that sentence with a preposition on purpose. Eat it!

--

Kishin

[Blackwingbear]

On Wednesday, May 15, 2013 11:43:54 AM UTC-4, the dog from that film you saw
> i'm afraid it will be like a tv series of twilight but with werewolves
> in place of vampires.


I STILL want to see someone seriously handle vampires,
witches and werewolves from the historical/shamanic
angle and not from the mythological one. It was done with
zombies in SERPENT AND THE RAINBOW.

[Blackwingbear]

On Thursday, May 16, 2013 1:29:20 PM UTC-4, Dr Walpurgis wrote:
> I greatly admire HOSTEL

That was quite fun for me!

[Blackwingbear]

On Friday, May 17, 2013 4:56:28 AM UTC-4, Kishin wrote:
> disappointed in very few of his films ("Deathproof" is the only one that
> comes to mind). I quite enjoyed "Django Unchained,"

I was the opposite - I dearly love DEATHPROOF,
but had no feeling for DJANGO.

[Blackwingbear]

On Friday, May 17, 2013 5:22:30 PM UTC-4, Mr Q. Z. Diablo wrote:
> INGLOURIOUS BASTERDS left me gasping at how a film with that much action
> in it can be so deadly dull.

Ditto. I actually preferred FOUR ROOMS.

[Adam Dolan]

I'm a mutant; I love 'em both.

[Mr Q. Z. Diablo]

In article <5e9cfef2-7fdc-46ed...@googlegroups.com>,

Which had its moments but was a strangely flat experience for me, even
in my late teens. Craven is hit, miss and all points in the middle.
There are q lot of decent but not terribly great films in his output.

[Jared]

On May 22, 1:46 am, Blackwingbear <blackwingb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I STILL want to see someone seriously handle vampires,
>  witches and werewolves from the historical/shamanic
> angle and not from the mythological one. It was done with
> zombies in SERPENT AND THE RAINBOW.

That's a nice idea. I remember reading some of those kids books on
monster folk tales as a youngster and the old stories are spooky as.
Digging up coffins and finding rosy cheeked corpses, the one about the
bloke who gets attacked by a wolf and manages to cut off its paw then
gets home to find his wife has lost her hand. Would love to see them
given a serious movie treatment.

[Kishin]

I'm not sure I understand how you differentiate historical/shamanic from
mythological (unless you're referring to the movie mythology, which was
invented mostly whole cloth cut Curt Siodmac for Universal's "The Wolf
Man"), but "Hemlock Grove" has a different take. Its primary werewolf is
a gipsy, and *seems* to draw on Romanian mythology. For instance...

KINDA SPOILERY!


...the bad werewolf becomes one by drinking water from the other
werewolf's footprint. I don't know if that comes from genuine Romanian
mythology or not, but it's also notable that they become actual wolves,
much like classic werewolves, and not just hairy men. Another difference
from the usual werewolf film is that the "good" werewolf seems to retain
his personality in wolf form, and doesn't kill people. The "bad" one is
described not as "evil" but only "sick." There are some other unique
bits of werewolf mythos, but I don't know if those originate in
historical accounts or are inventions of the book's author.

--

Kishin

[Kishin]

What's this, then? BWB enjoyed seeing a bunch of asshole American
college kids being tortured? Imagine that!

--

Kishin

[Mr Q. Z. Diablo]

In article <knhs4u$fh7$2...@dont-email.me>, Kishin <no...@yobizz.ness>
wrote:

Can't say I blame him, although privileged fuckheads of any nationality
are just fine with me as concerns the torturing and killing.

[Blackwingbear]

On Wednesday, May 22, 2013 3:32:25 AM UTC-4, Kishin wrote:
> I'm not sure I understand how you differentiate historical/shamanic from
> mythological

The form of shamanism/paganism/witchcraft/whatever you call it
in movies, by and large, is based upon superstitions and Christian
takes upon the practices. "Hollywoodized", so-to-speak. There
were actual people that practiced it, and it wasn't any more
"supernatural" than basic spiritual practices. Unfortunately,
that doesn't make for an action-packed blockbuster.

[Blackwingbear]

On Wednesday, May 22, 2013 3:33:39 AM UTC-4, Kishin wrote:
> What's this, then? BWB enjoyed seeing a bunch of asshole American
> college kids being tortured? Imagine that!

And what fucking assholes they were!