Jaws...
James J. Dominguez
I have been enlightened, and I am glad I didn't embarrass myself!
^TooL^ and I recently watched Jaws (about two weeks ago) and Jaws 2
(yesterday) on DVD. This is the first time I have seen either of them in
my adult life, and I am relieved that I have never discussed either in
alt.horror beforehan, as I would have embarrassed myself. I always
remembered Jaws as being really good, but I was too young to recognise it
as the masterpiece of suspense and horror that it is. I also remembered
Jaws 2 as being a slightly inferior but still very good sequel. Ooops! It
is terrible, sure, but is nowhere near as good as I recalled.
The original now has a place in my top twenty or so films, now.
--
[*] - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [*] - - - - - - - - - - - - [*]
| James J. Dominguez (aka DexX) | mcd...@optushome.com.au |
[*] - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [*] - - - - - - - - - - - - [*]
| "My psychoanalyst’s gonna love ya, cuz you look just like |
| my sister." "But I’ve got no arms, and armless girls |
| cannot play Twister!" - Funk You, Doug Anthony All Stars |
[*] - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [*]
loucyphre
James J. Dominguez <mcd...@optushome.NOcom.SPAMau> wrote in message
news:Xns91E58ECA66E57mc...@210.49.20.254...
>
> I have been enlightened, and I am glad I didn't embarrass myself!
>
> ^TooL^ and I recently watched Jaws (about two weeks ago) and Jaws 2
> (yesterday) on DVD. This is the first time I have seen either of them in
> my adult life, and I am relieved that I have never discussed either in
> alt.horror beforehan, as I would have embarrassed myself. I always
> remembered Jaws as being really good, but I was too young to recognise it
> as the masterpiece of suspense and horror that it is. I also remembered
> Jaws 2 as being a slightly inferior but still very good sequel. Ooops!
It
> is terrible, sure, but is nowhere near as good as I recalled.
>
> The original now has a place in my top twenty or so films, now.
>
Damn straight. On both counts.
--
loucyphre
----------
"I wish life could be Swedish magazines." - Iggy Pop
"It's all these booze-addled British boys with their Viz-style
rough-and-tumble pub-style blabbering and bullshitting about fucking
sheep and 'getting pissed' and 'tits' and 'arse'. It used to be such a
polite, congenial place, did alt.horror."
- (Dr. Phibes, alt.horror, 12/16/01)
James J. Dominguez
"James J. Dominguez" <mcd...@optushome.NOcom.SPAMau> wrote:
> It is terrible, sure...
Oops, that was meant to be "It is not terrible". I don't mind Jaws
2, but it is several leagues below the masterful original.
Dr. Nick Riviera
<mcd...@optushome.NOcom.SPAMau> wrote:
>
> I have been enlightened, and I am glad I didn't embarrass myself!
>
> ^TooL^ and I recently watched Jaws (about two weeks ago) and Jaws 2
>(yesterday) on DVD. This is the first time I have seen either of them in
>my adult life, and I am relieved that I have never discussed either in
>alt.horror beforehan, as I would have embarrassed myself. I always
>remembered Jaws as being really good, but I was too young to recognise it
>as the masterpiece of suspense and horror that it is. I also remembered
>Jaws 2 as being a slightly inferior but still very good sequel. Ooops! It
>is terrible, sure, but is nowhere near as good as I recalled.
>
> The original now has a place in my top twenty or so films, now.
I'd definitely put it at the TOP of my list - It's my favorite film
ever, I think it's the most entertaining movie ever made (a different
level than, say, CITIZEN KANE which was probably the most ground
breaking movie ever made). It has everything: humor, gut-wrenching
horror, great characters, fantastic acting, brilliant wide screen
cinematography, lovely music, etc. It scared me as a little kid and,
while I can't say that the FILM has scared me since the first time I
saw it, I can definitely say I've almost shat myself a few times at
the beach when a particularly sharky piece of seaweed would brush past
my leg underwater. Speilberg has a get-out-of-jail free card for the
rest of his life based on this film alone (and he's had to use that
card numerous times from the simply sub par JURASSIC PARK films to the
simply subhuman HOOK).
Just my opinion,
Dr. Nick
"Here's to swimmin' with bowlegged women"
--------------------------------------------------
To e-mail: remove nospamplease from reply address
Jeff McFadden
And he was actually drunk off his ass when they shot the infamous USS
Indianapolis scene. You can tell where they had to splice two days of
shooting together to make it coherent (read about that in a Cosmopolitan
magazine from 1974).
Shaw dominates nearly every scene he's in. I miss him.
Here's to swimmin with bowlegged women...
Jeff M
Eric Smith
jeffrey.w...@verizon.net says...
> Two words: Robert Shaw. The man was a brilliant actor.
> And he was actually drunk off his ass when they shot the infamous USS
> Indianapolis scene.
Which, since they were all drinking heavily in the scene, makes his
behavior a lot more credible. Not only that, it also underscores what
is hinted at throughout the movie, specifically that Quint's deep and
lifelong hatred of sharks has begun to unhinge him.
As for JAWS 2, I love it. It's certainly not the same without Hooper
aboard, but it manages to keep the spirit of the original throughout.
Now, if someone wants to discuss pointless retreads, JAWS THE REVENGE
is certainly the ultimate poster-boy.
Eric
bod
"James J. Dominguez" <mcd...@optushome.NOcom.SPAMau> wrote in message
news:Xns91E58ECA66E57mc...@210.49.20.254...
snip...
anyone know why they called the shark bruce???
--
--
regards from BOD! (as seen in viz magazine...and ill never let you forget
it!!)
"dont worry yoko, its only a friggin water pist...."
JOHN LENNON 1980
see bod pissing in the wind at...
www.bodland.co.uk the new home of bod!
MST3KPIMP
>And he was actually drunk off his ass when they shot the infamous USS
>Indianapolis scene.<
I recently saw a cut scene from Jaws where Shaw is standing in back of a boy as
he's humming some tune and Robert starts to sing along but in an increasingly
aggressive way scarring the boy off.. it's funny to think that he might have
been stewed.. I liked his preformance in that movie he did with Walter Mathau
where he hijacked a subway for some ransom scheme.. "title escapes me"..
DAM
The Taking Of Pelham 123. Excellent caper flick. Good cast.
--
Cheers,
DAM
Dwight A. Macpherson
Newsgroupwise, Damnam's the shine on my apple... EVERY GODDAMN DIGGITY DAY!
Dr. Nick Riviera
>MST3KPIMP wrote:
>>
>> >Two words: Robert Shaw. The man was a brilliant actor.
>> >And he was actually drunk off his ass when they shot the infamous USS
>> >Indianapolis scene.<
>>
>> I recently saw a cut scene from Jaws where Shaw is standing in back of a boy as
>> he's humming some tune and Robert starts to sing along but in an increasingly
>> aggressive way scarring the boy off.. it's funny to think that he might have
>> been stewed.. I liked his preformance in that movie he did with Walter Mathau
>> where he hijacked a subway for some ransom scheme.. "title escapes me"..
>
>The Taking Of Pelham 123. Excellent caper flick. Good cast.
Unrelated trivia note: Supposedly (since I can't seem to remember
which reference book I read this in), THE TEXAS CHAIN SAW MASSACRE was
first unleashed before an unsuspecting pubic as a sneak preview before
the similarly R-rated THE TAKING OF PELHAM 1-2-3. It was this
screening that led to the urban legend of people throwing up in the
ailes during TCM.
Just thought i'd mention it.
Dr. Nick
PS: Shaw was a very talented guy (and a helluva boozer supposedly) but
he NEVER looked right to me in any other role without that mustache
and baseball cap he wore in Jaws (not to mention the sporty bandana he
wears when bruce turns him into chum).
Eric
of "Jaws". And its a masterpiece compared to "Jaws 3-D" and the
horrible horrible "Jaws: The Revenge".
Eric
Michael Rogers
Here in Rochester, The Eastman House (a museum made from the mansion
bought by Eastman Kodak founder George Eastman) shows classic and
unusual movies in their Dryden theater (I've seen Susperia, The Beyond,
The Exorcist, Frankenstein, Bride Of Frankenstein, Dracula and more on
that Dryden screen). They usually have some wet behind the ears film
student introduce the films.
When I heard they were playing "JAWS", I lobbied successfully to do the
introduction. Here's the text of my intro. If you've seen the
laserdisc/DVD documentary, you probably know most of this stuff but I
made this intro before the DVD came out and most people didn't have the
high priced laserdisc set at the time:
Good evening, welcome to the Dryden Theater. I am Michael Rogers,
aspiring screenwriter and film geek extraodinaire.
Tonight's film is "JAWS", part of the "Sweating in the 70's" series here
at the Dryden. When I first saw this film, at the Waring Theater in a
double feature with "Airport '75", not only did I sweat but I also
covered my eyes and buried my head. I wore down my parents to get to
this movie and I ended up looking at the ceiling, looking at my hands
and covering my ears all through it. Of course, it had to become one of
my favorite films.
Making "JAWS" was just as scary and anxiety filled as seeing it. The
shoot was extremely difficult, mainly because of a commitment to
realism.
Where a film like this would usually be shot on an indoor set with a
tank, this film was shot on location at Martha's Vineyard. Where the
shark would've usually been executed with a miniature or stop motion
animation, in this film three full size mechanical sharks and a prop fin
were used on location and supplemented with film of real great white
sharks.
All this added up to a shoot that went on for seven months. The
production was plagued by mechanical sharks that kept breaking down.
Shots were delayed by as much as ninety minutes at a time by boats
slowly crossing the scene's distant horizon. Most of all, seasickness
hit the entire cast and crew at one time or another during the shoot.
It all began about a year earlier when Steven Spielberg noticed a
manuscript for a soon to be released book in the office of maverick
producers Richard Zanuck and David Brown. Zanuck and Brown gave
Spielberg his first theatrical break with "The Sugarland Express" after
he had gotten noticed for the critically acclaimed and high-rated TV
movie called "Duel".
Zanuck and Brown had just acquired the film rights to that manuscript
by a first time writer named Peter Benchley. Upon reading it Spielberg
was struck by its thematic similarities to "Duel". Both stories dealt
with a gargantuan unstoppable force threatening regular people. In
"Duel" it was an 18-wheeler truck, in here, it was a 25 foot great white
shark.
But what most made it a matter of fate for Spielberg were the titles.
You see, "Duel" has four letters and "JAWS" has four letters so it was
clear to Spielberg that this was a movie that HE was meant to direct.
Spielberg was already being considered but Zanuck and Brown went to an
"A" list director first who promptly disqualified himself when he kept
referring to "JAWS" as a whale movie.
So, Spielberg was hired and one of the first things he did was
streamline the story for the movie. Where the book had a lot of sub
plots going like the Mayor's ties to the Mafia and Chief Brody's wife
having an affair with Matt Hooper Spielberg emphasized only the straight
arrow adventure story at the core of the book for the film.
Peter Benchley, Steven Spielberg and screenwriter Carl Gottlieb
collaborated on the script. Gottlieb also acted in the film as the
editor of Amity's newspaper. Gottlieb's double personas of writer and
actor became pretty schizophrenic when he found he had to cut down his
own part to keep the story moving.
For casting Matt Hopper, the young high tech oceanographer, Spielberg
was thinking of either Timothy Bottoms or Jeff Bridges, both were
unavailable. So, a friend of Steven Spielberg's suggested Richard
Dreyfuss. That friend was George Lucas who had just worked with Dreyfuss
in "American Graffiti". Dreyfuss initially turned down the part because
he knew it was going to be a tough movie to shoot. However, he
eventually came crawling back when he saw his latest movie "The
Apprenticeship of Duddy Kravitz" and came to the conclusion that it was
so awful that it might end his career.
On who should play Chief Brody, the recently appointed Police Chief of
Amity Island with a fear of the water, the answer came from Zanuck and
Brown who had run into Roy Schieder, from "The French Connection", at a
party. Roy introduced himself because he overheard them discussing
making a movie about a shark that breaks a boat in half and he just
wanted to see what they were smoking.
For Quint, the Captain Ahab like grizzled sailor, Spielberg wanted John
Huston or Sterling Hayden but Huston just wanted to fish for real and
Hayden was having tax problems that were keeping him out of the country.
So again, the answer came from Zanuck and Brown who suggested Robert
Shaw, who was most recently in "The Sting".
With the principals in place, a script that was constantly in flux and a
mechanical shark that was still being developed, principal filming began
with the shark's attack on the first female victim played by stunt
person Susan Backlinie.
It was a lot of fun for her, Backlinie was pulled all over the water in
a harness by several strong men, then later she had to redub her cries
and screams in a recording studio while Spielberg poured water down her
throat. Richard Dreyfess happened to see some of this when he came to do
his own redubs and it was a real kinky sight.
Kinkier still, were the dailies showing the point of view of the shark
coming towards Susan Backlinie. The shark attack was shot in the daytime
and optically tinted down to look like night so any nudity would be
obscured. Studio bosses were not aware of this when they attended a
session of dailies and were treated to one take after the other of an
underwater camera zooming up on a naked Susan Backlinie. One of the
bosses wondered aloud if they were making "JAWS" or "Deep Throat 2".
With only a few weeks into production of the film "JAWS" the novel was
released and soared up to number one on the New York Times best seller
list. The book was a hit and the pressure was on Spielberg to deliver a
similar winner with "JAWS" the movie.
On creating a mechanical shark that could operate in a real ocean, most
special effects people flatly said it could not be done, except for one
retired special effects man. Bob Matty created the incredible giant
squid for "20,000 Leagues Under The Sea" and decided he could also
design the mechanical shark.
Since time was short though, things were not perfected as much as they
should've been and the shark kept having one problem after the other.
Salt water kept ruining the paint job on the shark and choppy waters
kept damaging the hydraulic mechanisms. It had to be worked on some
more and it almost brought "JAWS" to a screeching halt.
Luckily, it was discovered they could represent the shark by the
surfacing of the barrels that were attached to it by the harpoons Quint
fired. The device of the barrels coming to the surface actually saved
the film from being shut down and allowed the shark to be further
perfected.
For Spielberg, it changed the thrust of the movie since he originally
wanted to have the shark shown a lot more then it ended up being in the
finished film. In retrospect though, he feels it increased the menace in
the film to have the shark hinted at in this way. It was a happy
accident.
Another happy accident took place with the footage of real sharks being
filmed by Ron and Valerie Taylor. The Taylors had assisted in a
documentary about sharks a few years before and were hired as a second
unit to film real sharks for "JAWS".
When doing some test filming with an empty miniature shark cage (used to
make the shark look as big as the needed for the film) the shark got his
nose caught in it and went absolutely nuts. It violently thrashed all
over the place and tore up the cage.
It was great footage but was missing both the Stunt dummy for Richard
Dreyfuss and more fortunately the little person they hired to double for
Richard Dreyfuss in scenes with the shark.
Originally, the script called for Matt Hopper to be killed by the shark,
just like in the novel but when Spielberg looked at this spectacular
footage he rewrote the scene so that Hooper escapes from the cage just
as the shark begins to tear it up.
Changing and rewriting "JAWS" became a frequent occurrence due to the
production problems. Everyone improvised a lot of their own dialog.
Robert Shaw was a writer himself and frequently came up with little bits
for Quint's character. Including this limerick that Shaw remembered from
an Irish tombstone and it goes something like this:
"Here lies the body of Mary Lee, died at the age of 103, for 15 years
she kept her virginity, not a bad record for this vicinity"
Shaw also rewrote the riveting speech about Quint's experience on the
U.S.S. Indianapolis. In the script, it was only a little paragraph.
Spielberg wanted to expand on it so he asked screenwriter Howard Sacker
to make it a full-blown speech. The resulting dialog didn't seem "right"
to Robert Shaw and so Spielberg let him rewrite for himself.
The speech and the way it was performed by Shaw gave "JAWS" it's most
profound, touching and eerie moment, revealing how deep the obsession
Quint has for sharks really goes.
Now, things began to come together for "JAWS", the "Special Defects"
department, as Spielberg liked to call them came through in refining the
sharks. The shark got the nickname "Bruce", named after Spielberg's
lawyer, Bruce Riemer, and scenes begun months ago were finally finished.
As the film came to a close everyone was happy, except for Peter
Benchley, who was upset at the changes in the story, especially the
ending. He complained about it so much, he was eventually barred from
the set.
When the over schedule and over budget production finally ended, cast
and crew blew off months of pent up steam with a party that ended up
becoming a major "National Lampoons Animal House" style food fight.
A sweet middle aged lady prepared most of the food for that party. In
fact she baked and did other motherly things for the cast and crew
throughout the shoot because there was little else for her to do, until
now. She was film editor Verna Fields, nicknamed "Mother Cutter" by the
cast and crew.
Fields had edited "The Sugarland Express" as well as "Paper Moon" and
"American Graffiti" but "JAWS" would win her an Oscar. Fields
accomplished the impossible task of editing the boat scenes so that most
of the mismatches of sky, water and the passage of time between segments
would not show.
She also, along with Spielberg accomplished a unique editing effect for
the sequence leading up to the shark attack on the boy. To show you
everything in the scene is from Chief Brody's point of view, transitions
were made by making a wipe from a close up of Chief Brody to a shot of
what he sees. A passerby in both scenes wearing similar clothing covers
the wipe and the effect is that of an unbroken shot that changes angles.
Another stellar collaboration for this movie also began in "The
Sugarland Express". Composer John Williams up until this day has scored
each and every one of Steven Spielberg's theatrical films and their
partnership was no doubt cemented by Williams' work for "JAWS".
When Spielberg visited Williams to hear the main theme for the film, he
was expecting something sinister, melodic and complex. So, when Williams
sat at the piano and began to play:
Boom BOOM boom BOOM boom BOOM boom…
Spielberg thought it was a joke because it was so simple. A few minutes
later, he was sold on the driving, pumping, primal chords that became
the signature of the entire film and has been associated with
approaching danger ever since. Williams also won an Oscar for this
movie.
With the music in place, A rough cut of "JAWS" was test sceened to an
audience that was only told that they were about to see "the biggest
fish story ever told". The response was fantastic. Spielberg was
particularly enthused with the scene of the first appearance of the
shark that caused the audience to jump out of their seats and popcorn to
go flying.
Spielberg loved it so much he wanted to redo another scene where Hooper
finds a shark victim to get a similar effect. The studio saw no need to
improve on the film's spectacular performance so Spielberg used $3000 of
his own money to shoot the scene himself. With a double for Richard
Dreyfess, a mock up of a boat hull and a prop head, Spielberg shot the
new scene in Verna Field's swimming pool.
The test screening with the new scene in place caused the audience and
popcorn to jump even higher but it reduced the intensity of the second
shock since the audience was on guard after the first. Never the less
the numbers were even higher and "JAWS" was on it's way to being
released.
The last stop was the Motion Picture Association of America. The studio
was determined that "JAWS" should get a PG rating. Spielberg thought he
might have to cut a lot of the film to get one. Luckily, one minor edit
got the PG rating with a disclaimer in all advertising that said:
"May be too intense for younger children"
So, on June 20, 1975 "JAWS" was released. The high hopes for the movie
didn't even begin to compare to the reality as a phenomenon was created.
It soon out grossed any movie made before it and was the first film to
earn over 100 million dollars. "JAWS" was the prototype of the summer
blockbuster and along with "Star Wars" has changed the direction of
mainstream Hollywood for the past 25 years, for better or for worse.
But you now know, it actually all began with a young upstart director
realizing a kinship between a movie he was proud of and a movie he was
about to be proud of.
When the unstoppable force was defeated in "Duel", Spielberg subtly laid
in a sound of a dinosaur roar from an old movie. That same sound effect
is used again in "JAWS" when their unstoppable force was defeated to
underscore the kinship between both films. It also
underscores the unstoppable forces that were defeated to get this film
made only to have it emerge as one of the biggest films ever and a
classic.
One more thing before we start. "JAWS" was filmed in…(make a wide frame
with hands) Panavision but
most of the time these days you can only see the movie in…(shrink the
frame) TV vision and even though "JAWS" is available on video in
letterbox the effect is still not the same as you are going to get to
experience it tonight, especially with a crowd to experience it with
you. So, sits back, enjoy, thank you for joining us and let's all go to
the beach afterwards.
WideScreenPig
writ thusly:
>"Jaws 2" isn't a horrible sequel, but it still maintains the "feeling"
>of "Jaws". And its a masterpiece compared to "Jaws 3-D" and the
>horrible horrible "Jaws: The Revenge".
>
>Eric
With its emphasis on (literal) boatloads of sketchily-developed teen
characters lining up to be killed, JAWS 2 feels and plays more like
FRIDAY THE 13TH on water. Resemblances to its predecessor are
strictly coincidental. JAWS 3-D at least has the virtue of trying its
theatrics in a different environment, and makes no bones about playing
up its cheese factor, up to and including the glorious
inside-the-shark's-mouth-cam. Plus it has a script by Richard
Matheson (!!!). I'll take it over part 2 any day of the week. You're
spot-on about JAWS: THE REVENGE, though. Ugh.
__________________________________________
WideScreenPig
"I live in the weak and the wounded..."
- "Simon"
Eric Smith
cited author.]
In article <3CAD2FCF...@rochester.rr.com>, mi...@rochester.rr.com
says...
> Well, the answer's here.
>
> Here in Rochester, The Eastman House (a museum made from the mansion
> bought by Eastman Kodak founder George Eastman) shows classic and
> unusual movies in their Dryden theater
Really? That's only 60 miles away from me! I never knew it. Do they
have a schedule of upcoming events?
Eric
Eric Smith
ws...@rogers.com says...
> JAWS 3-D at least has the virtue of trying its
> theatrics in a different environment, and makes no bones about playing
> up its cheese factor, up to and including the glorious
> inside-the-shark's-mouth-cam. Plus it has a script by Richard
> Matheson (!!!). I'll take it over part 2 any day of the week.
I will never stop loving part 2, but initially hated part 3. It has
since grown on me quite a bit.
Simon MacCorkindale's demise is more disturbing and gross than Robert
Shaw's in the original. The change of venue is a plus. The music, while
not by John Williams, is excellent.
On the minus side, the movie looks grainy and low-budget in 2-D, and it
takes forever to get to the serious shark action.
As an aside, I always find it curious that Dennis Quaid is positively
_angry_ in this movie... he's glowering and sullen even in scenes where
his character should be happy, given the lines he's delivering. I also
swear that he is drunk off his ass in the scene where he and Bess
Armonstrong are discussing plans to rescue the people trapped
underwater -- slurring his lines all over the place, and even seems to
be staggering a bit.
Eric
James J. Dominguez
WideScreenPig <ws...@rogers.com> wrote:
> With its emphasis on (literal) boatloads of sketchily-developed teen
> characters lining up to be killed, JAWS 2 feels and plays more like
> FRIDAY THE 13TH on water.
Very similar to a comment I made to ^TooL^ early on in Jaws 2. We
saw the mass of teenagers, lots of them getting dialogue and some screen
time, and I said, "We have just seen the main difference between this and
the original. This is a real eighties horror movie - gotta have teenagers
in danger."
It probably would have worked much better with a much smaller cast,
and if more of the teenagers had died.
--
[*] - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [*] - - - - - - - - - - - - [*]
| James J. Dominguez (aka DexX) | mcd...@optushome.com.au |
[*] - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [*] - - - - - - - - - - - - [*]
| "My psychoanalyst’s gonna love ya, cuz you look just like |
| my sister." "But I’ve got no arms, and armless girls |
| cannot play Twister!" - Funk You, Doug Anthony All Stars |
[*] - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [*]
bod
"Michael Rogers" <mi...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3CAD2FCF...@rochester.rr.com...
> Well, the answer's here.
thats got to be the saddest post i have ever fucking read.....if i had not
fallen asleep due being awoken by the comic line deep throat 2, im sure i
would have wet my pants laughing!!!
Michael Rogers
bod
lol...i will be in another 10 mins...