Ending of PAURA NELLA CITTA DEI MORTI VIVENTI please?
El Roberto
the surreal beauty of Fulci's filmmaking - absolutely genius and definitely
one of his top 5, IMHO.
That said - what the FUCK is the ending all about? Please, someone, try to
give me some metaphorical significance rather than "it's just tacked on as a
shite schlock ending".
Confusing......
Rob
Roman S.
El Roberto wrote:
>That said - what the FUCK is the ending all about? Please, someone, try to
>give me some metaphorical significance rather than "it's just tacked on as
a
>shite schlock ending".
The kid was supposed to turn into a zombie but for one reason or another it
didn't happen and they just said "To hell with it" and left the ambiguous
ending alone.
bod
"El Roberto" <lo...@myballs.com> wrote in message
news:2po53aF...@uni-berlin.de...
they were too late...the gates opened!
i never had any problems with it ...but then again i wouldnt!
--
regards from BOD!
"dont worry yoko, its only a friggin water pist...."
JOHN LENNON 1980
see bod pissing in the wind at...
www.bodland.co.uk the home of bod!
Joe McC
"bod" <itsdirtyb...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:2pogbiF...@uni-berlin.de...
>
> "El Roberto" <lo...@myballs.com> wrote in message
> news:2po53aF...@uni-berlin.de...
>> Watched this for the fifth time last night, and as always it reminded me
> of
>> the surreal beauty of Fulci's filmmaking - absolutely genius and
> definitely
>> one of his top 5, IMHO.
>>
>> That said - what the FUCK is the ending all about? Please, someone, try
>> to
>> give me some metaphorical significance rather than "it's just tacked on
>> as
> a
>> shite schlock ending".
>>
>> Confusing......
>>
>> Rob
>>
>>
>
> they were too late...the gates opened!
> i never had any problems with it ...but then again i wouldnt!
Yep...I think the gates opened too, but Fulci's so cack he couldn't even
dramatise a cliched ending which was de rigeur at the time for every horror
movie. It's ironic his talent is so minimal we're in danger of confusing it
for challenging film-making..
Reminds me of the time the BBC took children's classroom paintings done on
canvas with oils , mounted them & put them into a gallery in London, where
the art world went bananas for them, raving about the primitive beauty and
all that jazz...
(And referring to Fulci movies using their Italian titles *doesn't* make
them any more appealing, El Bob....you can also get different shades of
shit, but the smell remains the same!!)
:-)
The White Lady
>The kid was supposed to turn into a zombie but for one reason or another it
>didn't happen and they just said "To hell with it" and left the ambiguous
>ending alone.
I watched it recently (terrifying stuff) and thought perhaps I'd
missed something earlier in the plot that might explain it. These sort
of inconclusive endings leave me feeling unsettled and disturbed,
which adds to the whole horror experience. I don't know whether this
is intentional or not.
The White Lady
<j...@nospampleaseredhotchilli.plus.com> wrote:
>(And referring to Fulci movies using their Italian titles *doesn't* make
>them any more appealing, El Bob....you can also get different shades of
>shit, but the smell remains the same!!)
It also makes you look like a pretentious cunt!
Killer Kane
"The White Lady" wrote:
>
I watched it recently (terrifying stuff) and thought perhaps I'd
> missed something earlier in the plot that might explain it. These sort
> of inconclusive endings leave me feeling unsettled and disturbed,
> which adds to the whole horror experience. I don't know whether this
> is intentional or not.
Hey, I agree with you about a Fulci film! Does it matter what the
intetntion was if the overall effect is achieved. I'm no Fucli fanboy or
completist, but I think the group of zombie/gothic horrors he made in the
early 1980's were a magnificent contribution to the genre. They look and
sound superb, and they are horrifying. I like open endings myself,
something to leave you thinking when you depart from the cinema. I do
however hate the kind of endings which are clearly contrived to leave the
films 'open' for a sequel.
Fulci's endings for City, Beyond and House by the Cemetery all seemed to
mark the protagonists' crossover into the metaphysical dimension.
--
"Whatever you may think of me I'm still a doctor, not a sadistic mummifier
of women".
Mill of the Stone Women. (1960)
Joe McC
"Killer Kane" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2pooqpF...@uni-berlin.de...
> Fulci's endings for City, Beyond and House by the Cemetery all seemed to
> mark the protagonists' crossover into the metaphysical dimension.
Metaphysical dimension my arse!! More like the crossover into the 2 for a
tenner bargain bin.....
Joe McC
Joe McC
> On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 11:43:56 GMT, "Roman S." <rm...@att.net> wrote:
>
>
>>The kid was supposed to turn into a zombie but for one reason or another
>>it
>>didn't happen and they just said "To hell with it" and left the ambiguous
>>ending alone.
Going off at a tangent, I was surprised & horrified to realise how long
Christopher George has been dead......in fact, I had blithely assumed the
guy had slipped off to Malibu Beach retirement with his faintly scary
looking wife. (Well, if not Malibu at least Santa Monica, but in a nice
condo).
Quite sad that..........please tell me Bradford Dillman & Richard Jaekel
haven't snuffed it, huh?
John Donaldson
"Joe McC" wrote >
> "bod" wrote
> > "El Roberto" wrote
> >>
> >> That said - what the FUCK is the ending all about?
>
It's his sled!!!!!
Darth Vader is Luke's father!!!!
Janet Leigh's character dies 20 minutes into the movie!!!!!
It's all a dream!!!!
It's a cookbook!!!!!!!!!
The butler did it!!!!!!!!!
ossicle
It's a wonderfully appropriate ending, and not metaphorical. As has
been argued before, they do not succeed in closing the door in time.
When they emerge into daylight, it's to a doomed, damned world, of
which the boy -- about whom they see and/or sense something horrible
-- is the first sign. That's why the tension and fright at the end is
keyed to such an unbearable pitch: A single zombified boy would not
warrant that reaction: What the frame captures is the end, and the
damnation, of all humanity. (In that sense I suppose it dovetails
with the metaphorical, since the film is meant to be a nightmare on
film and the only place in real life where we actually experience
emotions that awful is in nightmares.)
-oss
Dark Angel
"El Roberto" <lo...@myballs.com> wrote in message ...
> what the FUCK is the ending all about?
It's a pure film, a film of images.
One that must be absorbed without reflection!
--
Best Wishes
Simon (aka Dark Angel)
http://www.realmofhorror.co.uk
Dark Angel's Realm of Horror
Video clips, horror reviews, banned films, video nasties, anti-censorship
issues and more...
El Roberto
"Joe McC" <j...@nospampleaseredhotchilli.plus.com> wrote in message
news:41372fdf$0$88998$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
when you've stopped sucking each other's dicks (yes, Whitelady's too),
you'll stop to realise that I AM a pretentious cunt. It's my fucking JOB,
for Christsakes. While people like you two SEE films, I fucking READ THEM.
Joe - you clearly just can't comprehend Fulci. It's hard, admittedly, and
maybe one day you'll be able to give a film like PAURA NELLA CITTA DEI MORTI
VIVENTI the respect it deserves, but until then, I say YOU CAN TAKE THE BOY
OUT OF ELDERSLIE....
Rob
Joe McC
Heh heh,
How fucking true......
Actually, you know what's really scary...Dark Angel's observation that it's
a film of images to be absorbed without reflection, (almost as pretentious
as your ramblings, but actually I agree - taken on that level, it works).
The only problem is, the effect is accidental. So, *is* it art or simply
just likeable arse-clag?
C'mon Robbie...persuade me...I'm honestly open to changing my stance.
the dog from that film you saw
I dont think there is one - really, they couldn't be arsed with writing an
ending.
--
Gareth.
Quote of the day.
You're disgusting! you say he is sex lupines and sweep him away.
A chinese actress suffers the indignity of bad subtitles in the film 'red to
kill'
Killer Kane
"El Roberto" wrote:
> Joe - you clearly just can't comprehend Fulci. It's hard, admittedly, and
> maybe one day you'll be able to give a film like PAURA NELLA CITTA DEI
MORTI
> VIVENTI the respect it deserves.
MR L'ALDILA GUNNER GRAHAM
Justin Karswell
"the dog from that film you saw" <d...@REMOVETHECAPITALSgarethyoung.plus.com>
wrote in message news:2pou2pF...@uni-berlin.de...
>
> I dont think there is one - really, they couldn't be arsed with writing an
> ending.
>
... didn't the footage filmed get damaged, or something?
Regardless, I've always liked the way it puts the onus on the viewer to come
up with their own interpretation of what's happening. It's arguably a much
stronger ending than one where you are spoon fed the ending. You always hear
about the "happy accident" in art, why not in film?
--
Justin Karswell
"Dogs don't smash boats, or break paddles in half ... or do they?"
The kids ponder whether a psychotic pooch could be behind their mounting
misfortune in HUMUNGOUS (1981)
HYSTERIA LIVES!: http://www.hysteria-lives.co.uk
5 years of slasher trash with panache!
Joe McC
"Justin Karswell" <justin_...@blueyonder.co.ukspammenot> wrote in
message news:UoJZc.113799$b76....@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> "the dog from that film you saw"
> <d...@REMOVETHECAPITALSgarethyoung.plus.com>
> wrote in message news:2pou2pF...@uni-berlin.de...
>>
>
>> I dont think there is one - really, they couldn't be arsed with writing
>> an
>> ending.
>>
> ... didn't the footage filmed get damaged, or something?
>
> Regardless, I've always liked the way it puts the onus on the viewer to
> come
> up with their own interpretation of what's happening. It's arguably a much
> stronger ending than one where you are spoon fed the ending. You always
> hear
> about the "happy accident" in art, why not in film?
Lol, How many times does it need to happen to the same director before it
stops being an accident or art?
Killer Kane
"Joe McC" wrote:
>Dark Angel's observation that it's
> a film of images to be absorbed without reflection, (almost as pretentious
> as your ramblings, but actually I agree - taken on that level, it works).
> The only problem is, the effect is accidental. So, *is* it art .
If you are seeking the classic cinema narrative strusture as espoused by
Hollywood, which creates a cinematic realism for the viewer, then boy are
you in the wrong place. Fulci (in these films) deals in fantasy, his cinema
technique is formalist rather than realist. Dark Angel is right - it's all
about images, and sound for that matter.
Justin Karswell
>
> Lol, How many times does it need to happen to the same director before it
> stops being an accident or art?
>
Joe McC
"Justin Karswell" <justin_...@blueyonder.co.ukspammenot> wrote in
>
> "Joe McC" <j...@nospampleaseredhotchilli.plus.com> wrote in message
> news:4137660c$0$19718$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>>
>> Lol, How many times does it need to happen to the same director before it
>> stops being an accident or art?
>>
> ... good job for you the Doc seems to be AWOL! ;-)
>
> --
> Justin Karswell
I know....and NOBODY TELL HIM. It's bad enough soothing El Rob's wounded
feelings....
Joe McC
"Killer Kane" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2pp7toF...@uni-berlin.de...
I agree.....but if it's accidental, does it count as creativity? No-one's
prepared to put it on the line with an answer!
Killer Kane
"Joe McC" wrote:
>
> I agree.....but if it's accidental, does it count as creativity? No-one's
> prepared to put it on the line with an answer!
>
>
Of course accidents occur during the creative process. I played in bands
for 20 years or so. When you play around with stuff that you are writing,
accidents occur and are incorporated into the final piece of work. The same
goes for all art forms, and European horror films are very closely linked to
what many refer to as 'art cinema'.
Kimberly
>Date: 9/2/04 12:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id:
>European horror films are very closely linked to
>what many refer to as 'art cinema'.
Or as it's been mentioned many times here in the past... some of these films
should just be view as a nightmare of sorts...
Killer Kane
"Kimberly" wrote:
>
> Or as it's been mentioned many times here in the past... some of these
films
> should just be view as a nightmare of sorts...
>
Yes, a continuing one. Just thinking about HOUSE BY THE CEMETERY, and the
sequence where the tape recorder is playing back the bloke moaning, "Not the
children" - as the camera goes off into the cellar - will probably give me
nightmares again tonight.
Roman S.
Kimberly wrote:
>Or as it's been mentioned many times here in the past... some of these
films
>should just be view as a nightmare of sorts...
NIGHTMARES COME AT NIGHT
Joe McC
>
> "Joe McC" wrote:
>>
>> I agree.....but if it's accidental, does it count as creativity? No-one's
>> prepared to put it on the line with an answer!
>>
>>
>
> Of course accidents occur during the creative process. I played in bands
> for 20 years or so. When you play around with stuff that you are writing,
> accidents occur and are incorporated into the final piece of work. The
> same
> goes for all art forms, and European horror films are very closely linked
> to
> what many refer to as 'art cinema'.
I don't dispute that "happy accidents" occur. But in the case of Fulci, I'm
not convinced......
El Roberto
> Actually, you know what's really scary...Dark Angel's observation that
it's
> a film of images to be absorbed without reflection, (almost as pretentious
> as your ramblings, but actually I agree - taken on that level, it works).
> The only problem is, the effect is accidental. So, *is* it art or simply
> just likeable arse-clag?
>
> C'mon Robbie...persuade me...I'm honestly open to changing my stance.
I don't have much time here sir, but your initial response to Fulci is
indicative of the prevailing attitude towards Italian horror and the
exploitation film in general, which steadfastedly refuses to analyse these
films from anything other than the point-of-view of narrative Hollywood
cinema.
Fulci, better than anyone, knew the budgetary and time constraints he was
working within - let's not forget, most of these classic films are "filone"
cash-ins, and IMHO his artistic agenda was far more rooted in surrealism and
non-narrative cinema than the Hollywood horror tradition. Faced with the
poor budgets and awkward dubbing practices of the burgeoning Italian cinema
at the time, he clearly decided that dialogue and narrative were to be
subjugated in favour of abstract spectacle, which of course would make these
films more accessible to audiences outside Italy.
Basically If you try and read these films by expecting another "Halloween"
or "Dawn of the Dead" then you're going to be disappointed, but what
interests me is the almost complete disavowal of typical cause/effect logic
in the Italian horror film - something which is quite clearly done
CONSCIOUSLY rather than out of "cheapness".
Fulci had directed a ton of films by the time he started "City", and knew
better than most people how to make a decent narrative film; if you look at
his interviews it's clear that he was quite consciously setting up an
alternative to the hegemony of Hollywood... he was always going on about
"reclaiming" the zombie from American directors, for example, and explicity
stated that his aim with "Zombi 2" was to strip "Dawn" of its ideological
trappings and make a film which was - in his own words, not Dark Angel's -
"a pure film of images".
Sure, he succeeds and fails with this agenda, and made more than a few
stinkers, but, for me at least, to see ZOMBI 2, L'ALDILA, PAURA NELLA CITTA,
LO SQUARTATORE DI NEW YORK and QUELLA VILLA ACCANTO AL CIMITERO is to see a
surrealist director at his best, linking together a series of unsettling and
hyperviolent tableaux which offer a direct alternative to the formulaic and
stoic Hollywood formulae of the 1980s. I personally think Fulci owes more to
continental surrealist directors like Bunuel, neorealist filmmakers like
Rossellini (check out ROMA, CITTA APERTA for some hyper-violence from 1945)
Like I said, he's an acquired taste, but even having seen these films so
many times, each time I watch a film like ZOMBI 2 I still get the chills,
it's like returning to a favourite painting in an art gallery or listening
to one of your favourite songs.
I'm not going to try and force these films on you, Joe, but as someone who
seems to be fairly literate and discerning, I'm hoping that after changing
your reading strategy you'll appreciate these films as what they really are.
Keep me posted!
R
Adam Dolan
> Watched this for the fifth time last night, and as always it reminded me of
> the surreal beauty of Fulci's filmmaking - absolutely genius and definitely
> one of his top 5, IMHO.
>
> That said - what the FUCK is the ending all about? Please, someone, try to
> give me some metaphorical significance rather than "it's just tacked on as a
> shite schlock ending".
>
> Confusing......
>
> Rob
It's a pure film, a film of images, which must be absorbed as such,
without reflection.
*pause*
Well, SOMEbody had to say it!
Roman S.
El Roberto wrote:
>Like I said, he's an acquired taste, but even having seen these films so
>many times, each time I watch a film like ZOMBI 2 I still get the chills,
>it's like returning to a favourite painting in an art gallery or listening
>to one of your favourite songs.
FULCI LIVES!
John Donaldson
"El Roberto" <
> you'll stop to realise that I AM a pretentious cunt. It's my fucking JOB,
> for Christsakes. While people like you two SEE films, I fucking READ THEM.
>
squares on each side of the film ... they must mean something.
El Roberto
> I know....and NOBODY TELL HIM. It's bad enough soothing El Rob's wounded
> feelings....
Hell, I fucking WAXED LYRICAL earlier, and am waiting for you to disprove
me.
Fucking PHILISTINE.
Rob
bod
> Actually, you know what's really scary...Dark Angel's observation that
it's
> a film of images to be absorbed without reflection,
that statement that you refer to is realy a huge fucking in joke!
if you feel a need to attack something then have the honour of understanding
your foe first!
--
regards from BOD!
"dont worry yoko, its only a friggin water pist...."
JOHN LENNON 1980
see bod pissing in the wind at...
www.bodland.co.uk the home of bod!
bod
by what i read, rob just walked of shaking his head in dismay!!
if you have no grasp of fulci or argento..theres no real hope for you.
learn your basics laddie!
bod
>
> > Fulci's endings for City, Beyond and House by the Cemetery all seemed to
> > mark the protagonists' crossover into the metaphysical dimension.
>
>
> Metaphysical dimension my arse!! More like the crossover into the 2 for a
> tenner bargain bin.....
>
>
may i recomend a film you may like by a little known but a quite good
director, hes not bad if you like a rollercoaster ride but he does have a
nasty unhealthy habit of sticking entierly to the horror genre...its in 3
parts and its called "scream"
Joe McC
"bod" <itsdirtyb...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:2ppltjF...@uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Joe McC" <j...@nospampleaseredhotchilli.plus.com> wrote in message
> news:41376e4a$0$19718$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>>
>> "Justin Karswell" <justin_...@blueyonder.co.ukspammenot> wrote in
>> message news:8SJZc.114103$b76....@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>> >
>> > "Joe McC" <j...@nospampleaseredhotchilli.plus.com> wrote in message
>> > news:4137660c$0$19718$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>> >>
>
> if you have no grasp of fulci or argento..theres no real hope for you.
> learn your basics laddie!
>
>
> --
> regards from BOD!
You DARE to mention Fulci & Argento in the same sentence........PAH!!
I was watching these two in action while you were playing with your
Ghostbuster action figures, me laddo.....I know my fucking onions!!
I am no stranger to the alphabeti spaghetti of horror ..............
Joe McC
Hey bawbag...fair play n all that. That was posted *before* your eloquent
ramblings, (which *almost* persuaded me to dig deeper into Fulci's canon for
a clearer understanding. Don't think I'll bother now......sniff.......).
bod
old i am!!
your onions live in your undies along with the cocktail sausage you clumsily
take out and fiddle with on a regular basis...but with disapointing
results...
all that work for a slight tingle in your left big toe and a pathetic
mushrooming of nothing more than a substance thats as potent as b&q's
wallpaper paste!
Joe McC
>
> "Joe McC" <j...@nospampleaseredhotchilli.plus.com> wrote in message
> news:41372f3a$0$12556$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
>>
>> "Killer Kane" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>> news:2pooqpF...@uni-berlin.de...
>>
>> > Fulci's endings for City, Beyond and House by the Cemetery all seemed
>> > to
>> > mark the protagonists' crossover into the metaphysical dimension.
>>
>>
>> Metaphysical dimension my arse!! More like the crossover into the 2 for a
>> tenner bargain bin.....
>>
>>
>
> may i recomend a film you may like by a little known but a quite good
> director, hes not bad if you like a rollercoaster ride but he does have a
> nasty unhealthy habit of sticking entierly to the horror genre...its in 3
> parts and its called "scream"
If I were to say that Fulci pro-actively hampioned the genre on a global
scale & his grasp of haunting surrealist imagery was unrivalled, would you
be my fwiend?
bod
> If I were to say that Fulci pro-actively hampioned the genre on a global
> scale & his grasp of haunting surrealist imagery was unrivalled, would you
> be my fwiend?
>
>
lol..lets have the lot out now!!
Joe McC
Listen Trotsky, you might.....oops.....sorry, wrong RANTING NUTTER!!!!!
(but the wallpaper paste gag was FUNNY).
bod
> Listen Trotsky, you might.....oops.....sorry, wrong RANTING NUTTER!!!!!
> (but the wallpaper paste gag was FUNNY).
ah...trotsky now...whos stringing who along?
im going to bed..if some one crosses swords with me id at least expect an
amusing reply to entertain me...
how old are you joe?
everyone in here knows what i look like..jesus anyone with an pittance of
grey matter can figure out where i live...i have even driven out to meet
people on this ng just for fun...
your just fumbling around in the dark like a peters and lee day out!!
Joe McC
>
> "Joe McC" <j...@nospampleaseredhotchilli.plus.com> wrote in message
> news:4137a8df$0$71686$ed2e...@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...
>
>> Listen Trotsky, you might.....oops.....sorry, wrong RANTING NUTTER!!!!!
>> (but the wallpaper paste gag was FUNNY).
>
> ah...trotsky now...whos stringing who along?
> im going to bed..if some one crosses swords with me id at least expect an
> amusing reply to entertain me...
> how old are you joe?
> everyone in here knows what i look like..jesus anyone with an pittance of
> grey matter can figure out where i live...i have even driven out to meet
> people on this ng just for fun...
> your just fumbling around in the dark like a peters and lee day out!!
Life's just too short Bod.....you lost me about two posts ago......
bod
> Life's just too short Bod.....you lost me about two posts ago......
>
>
lol...its as short as you make it!!
kill yourself and save your shame!!!
Shatanzo
>dramatise a cliched ending which was de rigeur at the time for every horror
>movie. It's ironic his talent is so minimal we're in danger of confusing it
>for challenging film-making..
>
>Reminds me of the time the BBC took children's classroom paintings done on
>canvas with oils , mounted them & put them into a gallery in London, where
>the art world went bananas for them, raving about the primitive beauty and
>all that jazz...
>
>(And referring to Fulci movies using their Italian titles *doesn't* make
>them any more appealing, El Bob....you can also get different shades of
>shit, but the smell remains the same!!)
Actually i thought it was the one's who's viewpoint you were seeing was
turning slowly into a zombie. The vision turned cracked as the person became a
zombie.
Just my two cents.
The White Lady
<itsdirtyb...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>that statement that you refer to is realy a huge fucking in joke!
>if you feel a need to attack something then have the honour of understanding
>your foe first!
trying to win an argument by referring to in jokes is the lowest of
the low.
jay
wrote:
>> Dark Angel's observation that it's a film of images to be absorbed
>> without reflection, (almost as pretentious as your ramblings, but
>> actually I agree - taken on that level, it works). The only problem
>> is, the effect is accidental. So, *is* it art .
>
> If you are seeking the classic cinema narrative strusture as
> espoused by Hollywood, which creates a cinematic realism
> for the viewer, then boy are you in the wrong place. Fulci (in
> these films) deals in fantasy, his cinema technique is formalist
> rather than realist. Dark Angel is right - it's all about images,
> and sound for that matter.
Mostly really, really badly staged images. My own fairly severe
dislike for Fulci's work has nothing to do with its lack of "classic"
Hollywood narrative structure (though the fact that his films, on
top of all of their many other flaws tend to be, for all intents and
purposes, plotless doesn't help them in the final analysis, either);
it emerges far more from the fact that his films come across as
the worst sort of hackwork imaginable; a haphazardly assembled
pastiche of scenes and ideas ripped off from far superior
productions and thrown together almost at random with a lot of
really tight closeups of really, really awful effects (things a
director of even minimal genuine talent would know to try to
conceal, rather than to dwell on in loving detail). I've never
understood Fulci's popularity--he's where I and a great number
of otherwise like-minded fans part company. I don't suppose I
ever will. Recent efforts by a friend of mine to make of me a
Fulci fan ended up instead confirming everything I already
thought of his work, and hardening my own dislike. There
are too many great directors out there to waste time on a
talentless hack like this.l
The White Lady
<itsdirtyb...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>by what i read, rob just walked of shaking his head in dismay!!
>if you have no grasp of fulci or argento..theres no real hope for you.
>learn your basics laddie!
I think that T-shirt has gone to your head.
The White Lady
> Actually i thought it was the one's who's viewpoint you were seeing was
>turning slowly into a zombie. The vision turned cracked as the person became a
>zombie.
Thats the good thing - everybody has their own idea which makes it
more personal.
James J. Dominguez
El Roberto shared this:
> That said - what the FUCK is the ending all about? Please,
> someone, try to give me some metaphorical significance rather than
> "it's just tacked on as a shite schlock ending".
It's on there because, while Fulci was definitely a talented
filmmaker, he was a shithouse storyteller. The ending was tacked on
at the last minute because he hadn't thought of any better way to end
it by that stage.
--
+----------------------------------+--------------------------+
| James J. Dominguez (aka DexX) | dexxATaanetDOTcomDOTau |
+----------------------------------+--------------------------+
| "It's like the Presidency has become the Special Olympics |
| and everyone wants to give him an award just for trying." |
| - Aaron McGruder, _Boondocks_ |
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
James J. Dominguez
Joe McC shared this:
> If I were to say that Fulci pro-actively hampioned the genre on a
> global scale & his grasp of haunting surrealist imagery was
> unrivalled, would you be my fwiend?
Fuck, with that pile of Fulci-fellating wankery you've probably
earned yourself a few handjobs.
James J. Dominguez
Joe McC shared this:
> Actually, you know what's really scary...Dark Angel's observation
> that it's a film of images to be absorbed without reflection...
You're gonna choke...
While that phrase is frequently quoted on this group, the words
were originally spoken by the man himself.
"It is a pure film, a film of images, images which must be
observed and absorbed without reflection."
In other words: "It's funky to look at, so stop whining about the
shoddy script and plastic spiders."
James J. Dominguez
Roman S. shared this:
> NIGHTMARES COME AT NIGHT
...mostly.
James J. Dominguez
jay shared this:
> Recent efforts by a friend of mine to make of me a
> Fulci fan ended up instead confirming everything I already
> thought of his work, and hardening my own dislike. There
> are too many great directors out there to waste time on a
> talentless hack like this.
I've seen the light... a bit. I do love Fulci's imagery and use
of the camera (though I think Argento shits on him from a great height
on both counts) but I honestly believe that he wallowed in plotless
nightmares simply because he couldn't tell a fucking story to save
himself. I enjoy watching his films, but it's hard work to suspend my
disbelief and ignore the utterly hollow characters and clunky
plotlines.
Dr Walpurgis
> Watched this for the fifth time last night, and as always it reminded me of
> the surreal beauty of Fulci's filmmaking - absolutely genius and definitely
> one of his top 5, IMHO.
>
> That said - what the FUCK is the ending all about? Please, someone, try to
> give me some metaphorical significance rather than "it's just tacked on as a
> shite schlock ending".
>
> Confusing......
Fulci's stated intent was to produce a nightmare rendered on film. This
explains the films dislocatory narrative. And like all nightmares, it
ends abruptly and without resolution. It's the perfect horror movie
ending.
--
"Another clever one Dr Walpurgis. Again you have proven that you bring
nothing to the table. I'm guessing you make a living in Academia,
destroying the minds of youth." - Jizzy, alt.horror, 18/05/04
bod
"The White Lady" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:8k5gj0ln15adftopn...@4ax.com...
ok...its simply a joke!
bod
"Shatanzo" <shat...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040902204010...@mb-m29.aol.com...
> Actually i thought it was the one's who's viewpoint you were seeing was
> turning slowly into a zombie. The vision turned cracked as the person
became a
> zombie.
i thought the film had just got jammed in the projector myself....then i
realised i was watching it on video!
James J. Dominguez
bod shared this:
> ah...trotsky now...whos stringing who along?
> im going to bed..if some one crosses swords with me id at least
> expect an amusing reply to entertain me...
> how old are you joe?
> everyone in here knows what i look like..jesus anyone with an
> pittance of grey matter can figure out where i live...i have even
> driven out to meet people on this ng just for fun...
> your just fumbling around in the dark like a peters and lee day
> out!!
*boggle*
Urm, did bod just get genuinely annoyed?
I don't think I've ever seen him take an argument seriously
before. Joe, what have you done???
bod
tap...tap...tap...
The White Lady
<itsdirtyb...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>tap...tap...tap...
Guns don't kill people, rappers do!
I''m a fucking rapper and I might kill you!
Dr Walpurgis
>>that statement that you refer to is realy a huge fucking in joke!
>>if you feel a need to attack something then have the honour of understanding
>>your foe first!
>
> trying to win an argument by referring to in jokes is the lowest of
> the low.
For the record, it's not an in-joke. Well it is now, but it wasn't
originally. It's a direct quote from Fulci himself, responding wearily
to the kind of XENOPHOBIC PHILISTINISM proudly displayed by the
LOW-FOREHEADS in this thread:
In Italy we make films based on pure themes, without a 'plot', and
L'ALDILA, like INFERNO, refuses conventions or traditional structures.
People who blame L'ALDILA for its lack of story don't understand that
it's a film of images, which must be received without any reflection.
The White Lady
<drwal...@blueyonder.nul> wrote:
>For the record, it's not an in-joke. Well it is now, but it wasn't
>originally. It's a direct quote from Fulci himself, responding wearily
>to the kind of XENOPHOBIC PHILISTINISM proudly displayed by the
>LOW-FOREHEADS in this thread:
>
> In Italy we make films based on pure themes, without a 'plot', and
> L'ALDILA, like INFERNO, refuses conventions or traditional structures.
> People who blame L'ALDILA for its lack of story don't understand that
> it's a film of images, which must be received without any reflection.
It's possible to understand that and still dislike it. I enjoyed The
Beyond and COTLD very much but don't think that's because I 'got' it
and I don't think it gives me the right to feel smug or superior.
Dr Walpurgis
No, but by the same token, those who can't appreciate these movies have
on rocky ground suggesting that their inability to enjoy them carves
*them* out as in any way superior to those who do.
Dr Walpurgis
> Mostly really, really badly staged images. My own fairly severe
> dislike for Fulci's work has nothing to do with its lack of "classic"
> Hollywood narrative structure (though the fact that his films, on
> top of all of their many other flaws tend to be, for all intents and
> purposes, plotless doesn't help them in the final analysis, either);
> it emerges far more from the fact that his films come across as
> the worst sort of hackwork imaginable; a haphazardly assembled
> pastiche of scenes and ideas ripped off from far superior
> productions and thrown together almost at random with a lot of
> really tight closeups of really, really awful effects (things a
> director of even minimal genuine talent would know to try to
> conceal, rather than to dwell on in loving detail). I've never
> understood Fulci's popularity--he's where I and a great number
> of otherwise like-minded fans part company. I don't suppose I
> ever will. Recent efforts by a friend of mine to make of me a
> Fulci fan ended up instead confirming everything I already
> thought of his work, and hardening my own dislike. There
> are too many great directors out there to waste time on a
> talentless hack like this.l
Sure he's a "talentless hack". That's why DVD labels like EC, AB and MB
continue to scour Europe for supplementary material on his movies to
accompany their endless quest to furnish us with the best possible
re-releases of them. That's why epic studies of his oeuvre like
Thrower's continue to be written. And that's why we're still endlessly
debating, dissecting and discussing these "hackwork" movies nearly a
quarter of a decade after they were made.
The White Lady
<drwal...@blueyonder.nul> wrote:
>No, but by the same token, those who can't appreciate these movies have
>on rocky ground suggesting that their inability to enjoy them carves
>*them* out as in any way superior to those who do.
Most of the posts I've read from non-fans have attacked Fulci himself,
whereas, a lot of his fans seem to prefer belittling the viewers,
using words like 'inability' and 'can't appreciate'.
Joachim Løvf
news:Xns9559BC811801...@130.133.1.4 on 03 sep 2004:
> I honestly believe that he wallowed in plotless
> nightmares simply because he couldn't tell a fucking story to save
> himself.
An opinion proved wrong by each and every western or giallo he ever made
--
This situation must be controlled before it's too late.
They're multiplying too rapidly!
jlovf (at) online (d0tt) no
Roman S.
Joachim Løvf wrote:
>An opinion proved wrong by each and every western or giallo he ever made
You only have to watch the ending of Silver Saddle to see how Fulci
masterfully tugs at one's heartstrings.
Killer Kane
"The White Lady" wrote:
>
>
> Guns don't kill people, rappers do!
> I''m a fucking rapper and I might kill you!
>
>
Steady on now:
http://www.contamination.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/rezillos.mp3
Remember that?
The White Lady
wrote:
>http://www.contamination.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/rezillos.mp3
>
>Remember that?
No, you old git, but I've just got some fab new speakers so now I can
listen to it in all its glory. The only trouble is the subwoofer makes
my bones vibrate!
El Roberto
> Most of the posts I've read from non-fans have attacked Fulci himself,
> whereas, a lot of his fans seem to prefer belittling the viewers,
> using words like 'inability' and 'can't appreciate'.
At the end of the day, you assume a fair level of intelligence and
cine-literacy on this group, and I've yet to find one person who is prepared
to make a decent argument as to why they don't like Italian horror OR Fulci
films.
Don't try to turn this into an anti-pretentious "you and the Doc are just
being film snobs" argument, because at the end of the day I'm quite happy
that I am part of a select - NOT "elite" btw - group of horror fans who
enjoy these films.
For example, I don't much like the films of David Cronenbourg, and I've yet
to see a Woody Allen or Lars Von Trier film that didn't give me the dry
retch, but I'm not going to call them "talentless hacks"; I appreciate the
contribution they have made to cinema (let's not forget the fact that a
whole industry has risen up around Fulci, Tarantino included) and am happy
to ascertain that, while these directors are undeniably talented, I
personally don't like their films.
People need to think outside the box more, alt.horror people included - the
world does NOT begin and end with continuity, plot, good acting and a
hegemonic American narrative cinema.
R
El Roberto
"James J. Dominguez" <de...@aanet.comNO.auSPAM> wrote in message
news:Xns9559BAA2AB11...@130.133.1.4...
> It's on there because, while Fulci was definitely a talented
> filmmaker, he was a shithouse storyteller.
Only if you ascribe to the view that ALL good stories must have linearity, a
beginning, a defined middle and an end. I'm fairly sure that Joyce, Brecht,
Buneul, Godard, Altman, Scorsese and Fulci would all take umbrage with that,
though, and nobody calls them "shithouse"*.
Rob
*= well, apart from half the fucking people on this newsgroup, but why let
that get in the way of a pretentious argument?
Kimberly
>Date: 9/3/04 7:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Altman
>and nobody calls them "shithouse"*.
Shithouse!! There now someone did... :)
El Roberto
"Kimberly" <ilovemy...@aol.comBiteMe> wrote in message
news:20040903104731...@mb-m12.aol.com...
you better not be knocking Altman - or I'll KNOCK YOU.
:oP
Rob
Lesmond
>And that's why we're still endlessly
>debating, dissecting and discussing these "hackwork" movies nearly a
>quarter of a decade after they were made.
Wow...that's more than 2 years.
--
That's not art. That's just annoying.
Dr Walpurgis
>>And that's why we're still endlessly
>>debating, dissecting and discussing these "hackwork" movies nearly a
>>quarter of a decade after they were made.
>
> Wow...that's more than 2 years.
Ach . . . century, obviously.
Lesmond
>Lesmond wrote:
>
>>>And that's why we're still endlessly
>>>debating, dissecting and discussing these "hackwork" movies nearly a
>>>quarter of a decade after they were made.
>>
>> Wow...that's more than 2 years.
>
>Ach . . . century, obviously.
Sorry, I couldn't help myself...:)
Dr Walpurgis
>>>>And that's why we're still endlessly
>>>>debating, dissecting and discussing these "hackwork" movies nearly a
>>>>quarter of a decade after they were made.
>>>
>>>Wow...that's more than 2 years.
>>
>>Ach . . . century, obviously.
>
> Sorry, I couldn't help myself...:)
UN PEDANT NELLA CITTA DEI MORTI VIVENTI.
Joachim Løvf
news:dJqdnca32fP...@giganews.com on 03 sep 2004:
> Lesmond wrote:
>
>>>>>And that's why we're still endlessly
>>>>>debating, dissecting and discussing these "hackwork" movies nearly a
>>>>>quarter of a decade after they were made.
>>>>
>>>>Wow...that's more than 2 years.
>>>
>>>Ach . . . century, obviously.
>>
>> Sorry, I couldn't help myself...:)
>
> UN PEDANT NELLA CITTA DEI MORTI VIVENTI.
>
MI NOVIA ES DESNUDA!
I owe it all to latin porn and Dellamorte Dellamore.
Lord Retsudo
news:2prdf0F...@uni-berlin.de...
>
> "The White Lady" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:v2hgj0l305dqom98j...@4ax.com...
>
> > Most of the posts I've read from non-fans have attacked Fulci himself,
> > whereas, a lot of his fans seem to prefer belittling the viewers,
> > using words like 'inability' and 'can't appreciate'.
>
> At the end of the day, you assume a fair level of intelligence and
> cine-literacy on this group, and I've yet to find one person who is
prepared
> to make a decent argument as to why they don't like Italian horror OR
Fulci
> films.
>
> Don't try to turn this into an anti-pretentious "you and the Doc are just
> being film snobs" argument, because at the end of the day I'm quite happy
> that I am part of a select - NOT "elite" btw - group of horror fans who
> enjoy these films.
As I've commented so many times on this group over the years, those who
label Fulci a hack have usually only seen one or two of his films, and tend
to be unfamiliar with his work outside of the 79-82 bracket. Anyone who can
watch DON'T TORTURE A DUCKLING or A LIZARD IN A WOMAN'S SKIN and still state
with sincerity that Fulci couldn't make a good, competently directed film is
talking S H I T E. And that's without mentioning CONTRABAND, BEATRICE
CENCI, FOUR OF THE APOCALYPSE, ONE ON TOP OF THE OTHER, SEVEN NOTES IN
BLACK, etc, etc.
Tom
The White Lady
wrote:
>Don't try to turn this into an anti-pretentious "you and the Doc are just
>being film snobs" argument, because at the end of the day I'm quite happy
>that I am part of a select - NOT "elite" btw - group of horror fans who
>enjoy these films.
My point wasn't really about the films or Fulci, it was about the way
newcomers are unnecessarily set upon with personal remarks. You keep
seeing it over and over again, someone new turns up and all is well
until they get involved in a thread like this and end up being faced
with in-jokes and the like. Even now, I can't tell when some or you
are joking or being serious half the time and it wouldn't hurt to use
a bit more tact to stop driving new people away. As much as I love all
the regulars and their antics, a bit of variety would be nice.
ReVulse
What speakers did you get ?
I hope you don't really listen to GLC with them as that would be a
complete waste of money.
#Andy#
El Roberto
> My point wasn't really about the films or Fulci, it was about the way
> newcomers are unnecessarily set upon with personal remarks. You keep
> seeing it over and over again, someone new turns up and all is well
> until they get involved in a thread like this and end up being faced
> with in-jokes and the like. Even now, I can't tell when some or you
> are joking or being serious half the time and it wouldn't hurt to use
> a bit more tact to stop driving new people away. As much as I love all
> the regulars and their antics, a bit of variety would be nice.
Fair point, but I can't see how it's too relevant in this thread, which
mainly consists of regulars arguing with each other and some others chipping
in their tuppenceworth. I'd say that Joe has pretty much taken the
alt.horror trial by fire now, and isn't going to run away sucking his thumb
because I insinuated he's got no taste... as has been said till people are
blue in the face, our newsgroup has a certain dynamic... if people like it,
then brilliant. If not, then tough. People like Joe illustrate how much
decent fresh blood is being taken in; and let's not forget, for every
wisecrack made to a newbie there's someone offering genuine help.
Rob
bod
Even now, I can't tell when some or you
> are joking or being serious half the time
lol...fucking fantastic..we seriously take the piss!
The White Lady
<ReV...@psychaoticREMOVE.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>What speakers did you get ?
Erm, they say altec lansing on them and were forty quid from pc world
is all I can tell you. Don't ask me about electrical equipment, but
they sound pretty good!
ReVulse
My mistake, I thought you meant HiFi speakers. I've probably got the worst
PC sound system - a pair of mega cheap Goodmans speakers.
#Andy#
Jared Head
> world does NOT begin and end with continuity, plot, good acting and a
> hegemonic American narrative cinema.
LOL, that pretty much defines what I want from a horror film. I'm such a sell-out.
Jared
El Roberto
"Jared Head" <jared...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:3bf0dc4d.04090...@posting.google.com...
> LOL, that pretty much defines what I want from a horror film. I'm such a
sell-out.
E TU VIVRAI NEL TERRORE
R
Bonestructure
films. The zombie films I like, but I'll watch any zombie film. House by
the Cemetary I like, The Beyond is a piece of shite for me.
--
I feel kind of sorry for that one farmer who really is trying to help the
goat over the fence.
Jared Head
UCCIDERETE ANCOR
(Not speaking a word of Italian, I'm putting a lot of faith in
babelfish on this one)
El Roberto
> UCCIDERETE ANCOR
>
> (Not speaking a word of Italian, I'm putting a lot of faith in
> babelfish on this one)
LOLOL!!!!!
UCCIDERETE ANCORA!!!!
R
The White Lady
>
> Actually i thought it was the one's who's viewpoint you were seeing was
>turning slowly into a zombie. The vision turned cracked as the person became a
>zombie.
After watching the film again this idea totally makes sense. At first
it seemed to me that they had seen something in the boy that made them
realise that they had been too late and the gates had opened. Now I
think that, when looking at the boy, they started to feel the
overwhelming urge to kill him and, as you said, the screen looked
cracked as they realised they were zombies themselves!