Lovecraftian Lord of The Rings.
James
of going to see the film - and was surprised to find Frodo attacked by a
tentacled beast sort of emerging from under water.
"Out from the water a long sinuous tentacle had crawled; it was pale
green and luminous and wet." P401
Sounds like the big C - it gets everywhere huh?
-- Jim
Sometimes a tentacle is just a tentacle - Cthulhu Freud!
James Russell
news:IvQg4XA8...@dunwich.demon.co.uk...
> Was re-reading my old copy of The Fellowship Of The Ring, in preparation
> of going to see the film - and was surprised to find Frodo attacked by a
> tentacled beast sort of emerging from under water.
> "Out from the water a long sinuous tentacle had crawled; it was pale
> green and luminous and wet." P401
> Sounds like the big C - it gets everywhere huh?
That was something I'd forgotten about, not having read the books since
about 1988. Went to the local industry preview of the film last week, and
was duly taken by surprise... first thing I thought of when I saw that was
"Cthulhu". In case anyone else here has seen the film, how does the
presentation of the tentacled thing compare with its presentation in the
book? Is it similar, or has Peter Jackson introduced a bit of an unexpected
Cthulhoid slant?
JG
Jim Rockhill
No wings or legs that I could see, though both my brother and I
commented on the some of the Cthulhoid aspects of the thing. I have
doubts that it was intentional. Krakens appear sufficiently often in
Scandinavian literature for Tolkien and Jackson to have picked them up
there. Tennyson would certainly have derived his "Kraken" from these
sources. To paraphrase Freud, "Sometimes a cephalopod is just a
cephalopod."
Jim
Edward Parsons
thrown out of sea food resteraunts for worshipping the calamari.
Sorry, it is just a kraken. In some bits and pieces of work Tolkein does
describe it as such. Being the upstanding christian he was (re: lord of the
rings and simalarion are heavily biblical) its unlikely he would read much
lovecraft. Then again......
Richard Magrath
Sorry to ruin this James-only thread ;-) but I agree that the monster
was certainly very Cthulhoid. In fact, having seen the film on the
19th (with the noisiest children in all of creation sitting in the row
behind...) I was even going to write to a.h.c about it, but decided
not to in case it should be revealed that I've never read the books
(which, according to my mother - who has, many times - is a sign of
complete ignorance).
Basically, it *is* a monstrous octopus-thing, and could be taken as
either Cthulhuoid or not depending on, well, whether you've read HPL
or not (it could be an accident, or Jacksons' rather lavish depiction
of the beast could be a secret nod to Lovecraft fans).
After Kneale, however, I'm not going to be the one to ask Jackson if
he's read Lovecraft! :-)
Rich (and I actually thought that octopus thing was the Balrog...)
Oh, speaking of the Balrog - I was trying to imagine how Jackson could
come up with something suitably monstrous, and my mind drifted to the
last scene in The Dunwich Horror, with the *other* Whatley brother on
top of Sentinel Hill. In my mind, I think it's possible to portray
t'other Whatley brother on film, and still make it hideous (after all,
I can envision it perfectly in my mind, as opposed to any of the other
Mythos beings, and yet it still scares the Dickens out of me). The
problem is that since Alien almost all movie monsters have been
insect-based, to the point where if a giant cockroach-thing walked out
of a dark alley I wouldn't be frightened. The scary thing about the
Whateley brother was that he looked recognisibly human - yes, I'm
still talking about Wilbur's twin - but a horribly perverted, inhuman
manner. A giant human face on a bed of tentacles.
As for the Balrog, well, it's neither of these things. Watch the film!
But don't talk through it...
Mark Henry
Mythos writers):
Not just the tentacles outside moriagate, but Shelob the really enormous
spider, and the invisible watcher which guards one of the border forts of
Mordor, where some of the characters do some jail time (I don't want to be
more specific for those who haven't read LOTR). Reading the description of
Shelob is remarkable for the references to icor, stench, and the like, which
give a very HPL feel for a few paragraphs, and the invisible guardian has
some attributes in common with the haunter of the dark.
It's unlikely that JRRT read much if any HPL, but Tolkien certainly
tapped a common vein of horror. I'd say that there was a certain regard for
inhumanness in creating monsters, that both HPL and JRRT (and a lot of 50's
b-movie writers), realized a need to avoid making monsters that were just
men in funny suits.
"Edward Parsons" <edward-...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:OsoV7.27536$4z5.3...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
DHammann
I do recall reading that Tolkien had read Robert E. Howard, and said some
complimentary things about the works of his he read, most likely his 'sword &
sorcery' work.
alt.horror.cthulhu
Jim Rockhill
> "James Russell" <jg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<3c25...@turakina.six.asn.au>...
> > "James" <i...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> Rich (and I actually thought that octopus thing was the Balrog...)
>
> Oh, speaking of the Balrog - I was trying to imagine how Jackson could
> come up with something suitably monstrous, and my mind drifted to the
> last scene in The Dunwich Horror, with the *other* Whatley brother on
> top of Sentinel Hill. In my mind, I think it's possible to portray
> t'other Whatley brother on film, and still make it hideous (after all,
> I can envision it perfectly in my mind, as opposed to any of the other
> Mythos beings, and yet it still scares the Dickens out of me). The
> problem is that since Alien almost all movie monsters have been
> insect-based, to the point where if a giant cockroach-thing walked out
> of a dark alley I wouldn't be frightened. The scary thing about the
> Whateley brother was that he looked recognisibly human - yes, I'm
> still talking about Wilbur's twin - but a horribly perverted, inhuman
> manner. A giant human face on a bed of tentacles.
>
> As for the Balrog, well, it's neither of these things. Watch the film!
> But don't talk through it...
I liked the Balrog. It reminded me of the Celtic antlered god Cernunnos.
Jim
CyberAngel
> Was re-reading my old copy of The Fellowship Of The Ring ...
> Sounds like the big C - it gets everywhere huh?
Your thread title gave me an idea. What if someone wrote a single
connected narrative - say, a trilogy - that drew together all of HPL's
Great Old Ones and the secret history of his multiverse?
Such as, _The Lord of the Abyss:_
Volume I: The Fellowship of the Tentacle
Volume II: The Two Non-Euclidean Towers
Volume III: The Return of the Thing on the Doorstep
In the spirit of the Mythos, it would probably be a collaborative
work, with various writers contributing chapters. Anybody interested?
CyberAngel
"It might seem like I'm doing nothing, but at the cellular level I'm
really quite busy."
-- Doug Marlette
Juha-Matti Rajala
Where is this said? I've never heard it before.
It's also possible that Tolkien had read Hodgson, as his friend
C.S.Lewis read the Night Land (and liked it).
John
entry for the Kraken states:
". . . [the Kraken] survived below the thunders of the deep far beneath the
abysmal seas in ancient, dreamless, uninvaded sleep even into the Third Age
of Sun."
Of course this paraphrases Lord Tennyson's poem, which has been cited as an
inspiration for Cthulhu.
The spiders of Mirkwood always reminded me of Lovecraft's counterparts, too.
CyberAngel <cyber...@earthlink.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:3C26B3FC...@earthlink.nospam.net...
Steven Kaye
CyberAngel <cyber...@earthlink.nospam.net> wrote:
> Your thread title gave me an idea. What if someone wrote a single
> connected narrative - say, a trilogy - that drew together all of HPL's
> Great Old Ones and the secret history of his multiverse?
You mean, like the average Lin Carter story?
<ducks>
Steven
-f
<i...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Also, at the end of the Hobbit...when it tells what happened to the
group after that adventure...it said that both Fili and Kili were killed
by a giant tentacled underwater beast...lived in one of the pools near
their underground city...it has been a while since I read it, tho...so
memory may not be serving exactly...
-f
--
"Most suicides are far better thought out than most pregnancies."
- William R. Maples, Ph.D.
Goat
--
"-f" <j2for...@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:j2for8d001-D1ED0...@news.mindspring.com...
I just finished the Hobbit two hours ago. Fili and Kili were killed in the
final battle of five armies defending Thorin. I was sad because it had been
so long since I read it last I had forgottin they had died at all.
'Nothing hides evidence like a stew', Gus Pratt
Goatgirl at http://www.miskatonic-university.com/goat/shubsmain.htm
Dan Clore
> dham...@aol.com (DHammann) wrote in message news:<20011223223343...@mb-da.aol.com>...
> > < It's unlikely that JRRT read much if any HPL,>
> >
> > I do recall reading that Tolkien had read Robert E. Howard, and said some
> > complimentary things about the works of his he read, most likely his 'sword &
> > sorcery' work.
>
> Where is this said? I've never heard it before.
> It's also possible that Tolkien had read Hodgson, as his friend
> C.S.Lewis read the Night Land (and liked it).
L. Sprague de Camp quotes Tolkien as saying that he "rather
liked" REH's Conan stories in _Literary Swordsmen and
Sorcerers_. Other writers that Tolkien read and admired
include William Morris, H. Rider Haggard, and E.R. Eddison.
(Not to mention the anonymous authors of things like
_Beowulf_ and _Sir Gawain and the Green Knight_, which are
both masterpieces of weird fantasy.)
--
Dan Clore
mailto:cl...@columbia-center.org
Now available: _The Unspeakable and Others_
http://www.wildsidepress.com/index2.htm
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1587154838/thedanclorenecro
Lord We˙rdgliffe:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/
Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/necpage.htm
News for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
"It's a political statement -- or, rather, an
*anti*-political statement. The symbol for *anarchy*!"
-- Batman, explaining the circle-A graffiti, in
_Detective Comics_ #608
Jim Rockhill
> Juha-Matti Rajala wrote:
> > dham...@aol.com (DHammann) wrote in message news:<20011223223343...@mb-da.aol.com>...
>
> > > < It's unlikely that JRRT read much if any HPL,>
> > >
> > > I do recall reading that Tolkien had read Robert E. Howard, and said some
> > > complimentary things about the works of his he read, most likely his 'sword &
> > > sorcery' work.
> >
> > Where is this said? I've never heard it before.
> > It's also possible that Tolkien had read Hodgson, as his friend
> > C.S.Lewis read the Night Land (and liked it).
>
> L. Sprague de Camp quotes Tolkien as saying that he "rather
> liked" REH's Conan stories in _Literary Swordsmen and
> Sorcerers_. Other writers that Tolkien read and admired
> include William Morris, H. Rider Haggard, and E.R. Eddison.
> (Not to mention the anonymous authors of things like
> _Beowulf_ and _Sir Gawain and the Green Knight_, which are
> both masterpieces of weird fantasy.)
>
> --
> Dan Clore
> mailto:cl...@columbia-center.org
>
> Now available: _The Unspeakable and Others_
> http://www.wildsidepress.com/index2.htm
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1587154838/thedanclorenecro
>
> http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/
> Necronomicon Page:
> http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/necpage.htm
> News for Anarchists & Activists:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
>
> "It's a political statement -- or, rather, an
> *anti*-political statement. The symbol for *anarchy*!"
> -- Batman, explaining the circle-A graffiti, in
> _Detective Comics_ #608
For a long time, Tolkien's edition (with E.V. Gordon) was THE
(untranslated) edition of SIR GAWAIN AND THE GREEN KNIGHT to have. It
is still a nice piece of work.
Jim
D.G. Porter
>
> In article <IvQg4XA8...@dunwich.demon.co.uk>, James
> <i...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Was re-reading my old copy of The Fellowship Of The Ring, in preparation
> > of going to see the film - and was surprised to find Frodo attacked by a
> > tentacled beast sort of emerging from under water.
> > "Out from the water a long sinuous tentacle had crawled; it was pale
> > green and luminous and wet." P401
> > Sounds like the big C - it gets everywhere huh?
> >
> > -- Jim
> > Sometimes a tentacle is just a tentacle - Cthulhu Freud!
>
> Also, at the end of the Hobbit...when it tells what happened to the
> group after that adventure...it said that both Fili and Kili were killed
> by a giant tentacled underwater beast...lived in one of the pools near
> their underground city...it has been a while since I read it, tho...so
> memory may not be serving exactly...
>
What happened to Moxie and Pepsi after they went to see Tim Benzedrine?
D.G. Porter
>
> It is interesting to note that in _A Tolkien Bestiary_ (by David Day) the
> entry for the Kraken states:
>
> ". . . [the Kraken] survived below the thunders of the deep far beneath the
> abysmal seas in ancient, dreamless, uninvaded sleep even into the Third Age
> of Sun."
"There he sold prophylactics to the young schoolchildren and ..."
D.G. Porter
>
> Was re-reading my old copy of The Fellowship Of The Ring, in preparation
> of going to see the film - and was surprised to find Frodo attacked by a
> tentacled beast sort of emerging from under water.
> "Out from the water a long sinuous tentacle had crawled; it was pale
> green and luminous and wet." P401
"AAAHHH! A THESAURUS!" cried Goodgulf.
"MAIM! MUTILATE, MURDER, DESTROY!" said the Thesaurus.
Don't tell anyone about the Ballhog.
-f
<goatg...@home.com> wrote:
> I just finished the Hobbit two hours ago. Fili and Kili were killed in
> the
> final battle of five armies defending Thorin. I was sad because it had
> been
> so long since I read it last I had forgottin they had died at all.
>
>
> 'Nothing hides evidence like a stew', Gus Pratt
> Goatgirl at http://www.miskatonic-university.com/goat/shubsmain.htm
Well...crap. Hurry through the rest of the books. I know one of the
somewhat important characters gets dragged to his death by a
tentacle...and someone else tries to save him and winds up in the drink,
too. Oh well. I read too much, maybe...cursed clutter.
Dan Clore
> Dan Clore <cl...@columbia-center.org> wrote in message news:<3C287FA7...@columbia-center.org>...
> > Juha-Matti Rajala wrote:
> > > dham...@aol.com (DHammann) wrote in message news:<20011223223343...@mb-da.aol.com>...
> >
> > > > < It's unlikely that JRRT read much if any HPL,>
> > > >
> > > > I do recall reading that Tolkien had read Robert E. Howard, and said some
> > > > complimentary things about the works of his he read, most likely his 'sword &
> > > > sorcery' work.
> > >
> > > Where is this said? I've never heard it before.
> > > It's also possible that Tolkien had read Hodgson, as his friend
> > > C.S.Lewis read the Night Land (and liked it).
> >
> > L. Sprague de Camp quotes Tolkien as saying that he "rather
> > liked" REH's Conan stories in _Literary Swordsmen and
> > Sorcerers_. Other writers that Tolkien read and admired
> > include William Morris, H. Rider Haggard, and E.R. Eddison.
> > (Not to mention the anonymous authors of things like
> > _Beowulf_ and _Sir Gawain and the Green Knight_, which are
> > both masterpieces of weird fantasy.)
> For a long time, Tolkien's edition (with E.V. Gordon) was THE
> (untranslated) edition of SIR GAWAIN AND THE GREEN KNIGHT to have. It
> is still a nice piece of work.
Quite right. It's been superseded, but such is the way of
the scholarly world. For those unable or unwilling to read
it in the original, Tolkien's translation is probably still
the best. The edition of his translation also includes his
translations of _Pearl_ (by the Gawain poet) and _Sir
Orfeo_, another good weird fantasy poem.
--
Dan Clore
mailto:cl...@columbia-center.org
Now available: _The Unspeakable and Others_
http://www.wildsidepress.com/index2.htm
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1587154838/thedanclorenecro
Lord We˙rdgliffe:
Michael Clarke
<ms.henry...@MUSTDIEmindspring.com> wrote:
>Tolkien has several monsters that show some similarities to HPL's (or other
>Mythos writers):
>Not just the tentacles outside moriagate, but Shelob the really enormous
>spider, and the invisible watcher which guards one of the border forts of
>Mordor, where some of the characters do some jail time (I don't want to be
>more specific for those who haven't read LOTR). Reading the description of
>Shelob is remarkable for the references to icor, stench, and the like, which
>give a very HPL feel for a few paragraphs, and the invisible guardian has
>some attributes in common with the haunter of the dark.
> It's unlikely that JRRT read much if any HPL, but Tolkien certainly
>tapped a common vein of horror. I'd say that there was a certain regard for
>inhumanness in creating monsters, that both HPL and JRRT (and a lot of 50's
>b-movie writers), realized a need to avoid making monsters that were just
>men in funny suits.
There is one more obvious influence. Moira. A city peopled by
subhuman inhabitans who delved to deep into the earth in persuit of
things unknown to man and disturbed the sleeping remnents of an
ancient race. An ancient races that took over the city and drove them
from it. A city into which the unknowning were guided by a man of
science (wizardry) who was slain by the last remnents of the ancient
race.
Mik
Geoff Burling
>
>What happened to Moxie and Pepsi after they went to see Tim Benzedrine?
Omigawdomigawdomigawdomigawdomigawdomigawdomigawdomigawdomigawdomigawdomigawd
omigawdomigawdomigawdomigawdomigawdomigawdomigawdomigawdomigawdomigawdomigawd
Or something like that . . .
Geoff, wishing Thursday was his day to crash
--
Goat
"-f" wrote >
> Well...crap. Hurry through the rest of the books. I know one of the
> somewhat important characters gets dragged to his death by a
> tentacle...and someone else tries to save him and winds up in the drink,
> too. Oh well. I read too much, maybe...cursed clutter.
>
> -f
>
> --
> "Most suicides are far better thought out than most pregnancies."
> - William R. Maples,
Ph.D.
I am already half through the Fellowship of the Ring so I am definately
working on it for you. :)
I did realize that it had been so long since I read it last that I had
forgotten so many details. It's like reading it all over.
I let you all know if I find it. I have to hurry though, winter quarter
starts soon!
-Sage
--
Georg Datterl
regarding Re: Lovecraftian Lord of The Rings.:
> "James Russell" <jg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<3c25...@turakina.six.asn.au>...
> > "James" <i...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:IvQg4XA8...@dunwich.demon.co.uk...
> > > Was re-reading my old copy of The Fellowship Of The Ring, in preparation
> > > of going to see the film - and was surprised to find Frodo attacked by a
> > > tentacled beast sort of emerging from under water.
> > > "Out from the water a long sinuous tentacle had crawled; it was pale
> > > green and luminous and wet." P401
> > > Sounds like the big C - it gets everywhere huh?
> > That was something I'd forgotten about, not having read the books since
> > about 1988. Went to the local industry preview of the film last week, and
> > was duly taken by surprise... first thing I thought of when I saw that
was
> > "Cthulhu". In case anyone else here has seen the film, how does the
> > presentation of the tentacled thing compare with its presentation in the
> > book? Is it similar, or has Peter Jackson introduced a bit of an
unexpected
> > Cthulhoid slant?
> was certainly very Cthulhoid.
I thought so too. Definitely liked it more than the Balrog. :-)
> in case it should be revealed that I've never read the books
> (which, according to my mother - who has, many times - is a sign of
> complete ignorance).
Yes, it is.
> As for the Balrog, well, it's neither of these things. Watch the film!
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
!
H
I
C
S
U
N
T
B
A
L
R
O
G
S
!
When the Balrog appeared for the first time, I thought "What the hell is
Diablo doing her?" Somebody else compared it to the bull in "The Last
Unicorn".
--
MfG, Georg
Richard Magrath
I'm *sure* someone, a few months ago, someone like Dan Clore posted a
quote from the Lord of the Rings about how "the miners of Moria dug so
deep, they unearthed things even Sauron did not know of". I always
thought that sounded wonderfully spooky and ambiguous, and was
reminded of it when one of the LOTR characters spoke a similar line,
albeit that referred more to the Balrog (which in itself is a bit
Lovecraftian, and certainly a great idea, an old God (?) literally dug
up from the ancient world which it had inhabited) than to
unmentioned/unmentionable things even OLDER and WEIRDER and
INCOMPREHENSIBLE than it.
Did Sir Gawain and the Green Knight involve a member of Sir Arthur's
Court entering the castle (perhaps he was following a grail-shaped
beacon) of the eponymous green knight, and ended up beheading him? If
so, I think I read a childrens' illustrated version of it when I were
a lad (which led me on to read all about the adventures of King Arthur
by the time I was 7 or 8).
"Don't take any course where they make you read Beowulf".
Happy new year everybody. 2000 was the millenium, 2001 was the
pedant's millenium, but IMO 2002 has a lovely symmetry to it which I
like.
Rich
Dan Clore
> Michael Clarke <myk...@vianet.net.au> wrote in message news:<4dmn2u8usqtfvc88s...@4ax.com>...
> > On Sun, 23 Dec 2001 16:59:28 -0500, "Mark Henry"
> > <ms.henry...@MUSTDIEmindspring.com> wrote:
> I'm *sure* someone, a few months ago, someone like Dan Clore posted a
> quote from the Lord of the Rings about how "the miners of Moria dug so
> deep, they unearthed things even Sauron did not know of". I always
> thought that sounded wonderfully spooky and ambiguous, and was
> reminded of it when one of the LOTR characters spoke a similar line,
> albeit that referred more to the Balrog (which in itself is a bit
> Lovecraftian, and certainly a great idea, an old God (?) literally dug
> up from the ancient world which it had inhabited) than to
> unmentioned/unmentionable things even OLDER and WEIRDER and
> INCOMPREHENSIBLE than it.
I'm not the one who posted that, but there are certainly
some things like it in LOTR. (A while back I was intending
to make a post on a them like "Tolkien and Horror", but
never got around to it.) Ah, here's something Gandalf says:
"Something has crept, or has been driven out of dark waters
under the mountains. There are older and fouler things than
Orcs in the deep places of the world."
> Did Sir Gawain and the Green Knight involve a member of Sir Arthur's
> Court entering the castle (perhaps he was following a grail-shaped
> beacon) of the eponymous green knight, and ended up beheading him? If
> so, I think I read a childrens' illustrated version of it when I were
> a lad (which led me on to read all about the adventures of King Arthur
> by the time I was 7 or 8).
You're thinking of the right work, though that's not quite
what happens. (Gawain and the Green Knight play the
"beheading game" -- Gawain beheads the Green Knight at
Arthur's castle; then, a year later, goes to the Green
Knight's castle to receive his return blow.) I also read
that children's version as a lad.
--
Dan Clore
mailto:cl...@columbia-center.org
Now available: _The Unspeakable and Others_
http://www.wildsidepress.com/index2.htm
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1587154838/thedanclorenecro
Lord Weÿrdgliffe:
DÄMONEN-KILLER
(Greetings from Vienna and A Happy New Year)
"Georg Datterl" <georg_...@bigfoot.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:20011230...@MV-NB-007.intern.multivisual.de...
nicolemrw
> <i...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Was re-reading my old copy of The Fellowship Of The Ring, in preparation
> > of going to see the film - and was surprised to find Frodo attacked by a
> > tentacled beast sort of emerging from under water.
> > "Out from the water a long sinuous tentacle had crawled; it was pale
> > green and luminous and wet." P401
> > Sounds like the big C - it gets everywhere huh?
> >
> > -- Jim
> > Sometimes a tentacle is just a tentacle - Cthulhu Freud!
>
>
> Also, at the end of the Hobbit...when it tells what happened to the
> group after that adventure...it said that both Fili and Kili were killed
> by a giant tentacled underwater beast...lived in one of the pools near
> their underground city...it has been a while since I read it, tho...so
> memory may not be serving exactly...
>
> -f
um, no. sorry. fili and kili died beside thorin, defending his body
from the goblins, as they were his "sister-sons", ie nephews, and owed
him great alligence.
nicolemrw
> presentation of the tentacled thing compare with its presentation in the
> book? Is it similar, or has Peter Jackson introduced a bit of an unexpected
> Cthulhoid slant?
>
it is similar, but in the book all that are seen are the tentacles,
not the central body of the thing.
D.G. Porter
book it's that clopoll from Gondor Boromir who throws the rock into the
pool outside Moria, and Frodo who berates him.
Also, Gandalf comes up with the password to the gate on his own in the
book, w/o Frodo's help.
Ulrich Schreitmueller
The latter is one movie detail I really liked - it's nice to see Frodo
following in Bilbo's footsteps as a solver of riddles.
Richard Magrath
> Richard Magrath wrote:
> > Michael Clarke <myk...@vianet.net.au> wrote in message news:<4dmn2u8usqtfvc88s...@4ax.com>...
> > > On Sun, 23 Dec 2001 16:59:28 -0500, "Mark Henry"
> > > <ms.henry...@MUSTDIEmindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm *sure* someone, a few months ago, someone like Dan Clore posted a
> > quote from the Lord of the Rings about how "the miners of Moria dug so
> > deep, they unearthed things even Sauron did not know of". I always
> > thought that sounded wonderfully spooky and ambiguous, and was
> > reminded of it when one of the LOTR characters spoke a similar line,
> > albeit that referred more to the Balrog (which in itself is a bit
> > Lovecraftian, and certainly a great idea, an old God (?) literally dug
> > up from the ancient world which it had inhabited) than to
> > unmentioned/unmentionable things even OLDER and WEIRDER and
> > INCOMPREHENSIBLE than it.
>
> I'm not the one who posted that, but there are certainly
> some things like it in LOTR. (A while back I was intending
> to make a post on a them like "Tolkien and Horror", but
> never got around to it.) Ah, here's something Gandalf says:
> "Something has crept, or has been driven out of dark waters
> under the mountains. There are older and fouler things than
> Orcs in the deep places of the world."
I'm sure that's the line I was thinking of from the film. I did a bit
of searching the archives, and found the post and the quote I was
looking for:
[old a.h.c post]
From: Geoduck (geo...@usa.net)
Subject: Re: Cthulhu in Middle Earth?<g>
Newsgroups: alt.horror.cthulhu
Date: 2000/05/02
On Tue, 02 May 2000 16:13:42 GMT, mar...@shore.net (Anthony
Christopher) wrote:
>
>I personally like the section where Moria is described, and mentions
how
>the Dwarves dug so deep that they came across things so old and
hidden
>that even Sauron didn't know about them. :)
To be a little more exact::
"Far, far below the depest delving of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed
by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than
he."
-Gandalf, The Two Towers
--
Geoduck
geo...@usa.net
http://www.olywa.net/cook
[/old a.h.c post]
Skimming briefly through the rest of the thread... Abaddon picked up
on the quote, and argued that Sauron was as old as Middle Earth itself
and had a hand in creating it, and so this statement is wrong since
there would be nothing older than Sauron or that he wouldn't know.
Then Abaddon replied to an earlier post by Robert McKay, and added a
not unfamiliar observation at the end:
[old a.h.c post - I'm putting these in so to be less confusing]
From: Abaddon (aba...@connect.ab.ca)
Subject: Re: Cthulhu in Middle Earth?<g>
Newsgroups: alt.horror.cthulhu
Date: 2000/05/02
Robert McKay wrote:
> I'm rereading the Lord of the Rings trilogy, and in the first volume, *The
> Fellowship of the Ring*, I encountered a sentence that reminded pretty strongly
> of the Cthulhu Mythos: "Others dwelt here before hobbits were; and otherws will
> dwell here again when hobbits are no more."
>
> I leave naming the Cthulhu reference as an exercise for the student. :)
>
> Robert McKay/Raibeart MacAoidh
> AOL - Goffs California, E-mail - goffsca...@aol.com
> ICQ #32365842
> We don't have a skin problem, we have a sin problem! ----S.M. Lockridge
_The Dunwich Horror_ if I am not mistaken, when one of the Whataleys
goes off on
some weird tangent. I think that there is also a reference much the
same in _The
Shadow Out of Time_ and _The Call of Cthulhu_.
'Course, the squid thing at the West gate of Moria was pretty damned
Cthulhu-ish
as well.
Abaddon.
[/old a.h.c post]
To be honest I preferred it how I remembered it...
>
> > Did Sir Gawain and the Green Knight involve a member of Sir Arthur's
> > Court entering the castle (perhaps he was following a grail-shaped
> > beacon) of the eponymous green knight, and ended up beheading him? If
> > so, I think I read a childrens' illustrated version of it when I were
> > a lad (which led me on to read all about the adventures of King Arthur
> > by the time I was 7 or 8).
>
> You're thinking of the right work, though that's not quite
> what happens. (Gawain and the Green Knight play the
> "beheading game" -- Gawain beheads the Green Knight at
> Arthur's castle; then, a year later, goes to the Green
> Knight's castle to receive his return blow.) I also read
> that children's version as a lad.
>
> --
> Dan Clore
> mailto:cl...@columbia-center.org
Rich
nicolemrw
> <i...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Was re-reading my old copy of The Fellowship Of The Ring, in preparation
> > of going to see the film - and was surprised to find Frodo attacked by a
> > tentacled beast sort of emerging from under water.
> > "Out from the water a long sinuous tentacle had crawled; it was pale
> > green and luminous and wet." P401
> > Sounds like the big C - it gets everywhere huh?
> >
> > -- Jim
> > Sometimes a tentacle is just a tentacle - Cthulhu Freud!
>
>
> Also, at the end of the Hobbit...when it tells what happened to the
> group after that adventure...it said that both Fili and Kili were killed
> by a giant tentacled underwater beast...lived in one of the pools near
> their underground city...it has been a while since I read it, tho...so
> memory may not be serving exactly...
>
> -f
aha! i had a brainstorm last night and figured out what you are
thinking of!
s
p
o
i
l
e
r
s
when the fellowship read the book of records in the chamber of
mazarbul in moria, by balin's tomb, they run across the notation that
"The Watcher in the Water took Oin." (theres suppposed to be an accent
mark overthe O in Oin, i don't know how to do it) oin was, along with
his brother gloin one of the original companions of thorin in "the
hobbit", just as balin himself (and fili and kili of course.) i think
you may be remembering this. and possibly adding in the part where
the balrog pulls gandalf off the bridge using his whip.
hope this helps.