Why No Mythos "Monster" stories?
james ambuehl
HARDBOILED CTHULHU was the first, but ELDRITCH STEEL and SHOGGOTHS were
to follow. Long story on why these didn't come out aside from
HARDBOILED, though ES may hopefully still be forthcoming without my
direct and credited involvement in it. But anyway, in selecting stories
for SHOGGOTHS, which was only to be the first in a long list of MONSTER
anthologies, I was surpised to find that though there are
umpteen-million Deep Ones and even Shoggoths and Ghouls stories, there
really are very few stories concerning creatures like Night-Gaunts,
Dholes, Dimensional Shamblers, Sand Dwellers, Gugs and especially
Serpent-Men; most of these monsters' stories can be counted on one or
two hands!
Which is the reason I was looking forward to compiling such anthologies
-- to see what new things could be done in the Mythos in these areas.
Ah, but with such anthologies now dead but dreaming -- if any
enterprising new Mythos authors want to try something mostly untried,
might I suggest that you look to the lesser races of Monsters of the
Mythos!
-- Jim
"When the Big Sleep ends, the Nightmares begin!" -- HARDBOILED CTHULHU:
TWO-FISTED TALES OF TENTACLED TERROR, edited by James Ambuehl and out
now from Elder Signs Press! Available from Clarkesworld Books,
Shocklines, Amazon, and Elder Signs Press itself!
wilum pugmire
I prefer not to write stories about monsters, that is simply my own
preference. I've brought night gaunts and various entities into my
fiction, but don't consider those tales among my best. In "An Eidolon
of Nothing" I had a hound-like monster, and it was the weakest part of
the story. I suppose I tend to prefer Lovecraftian Horror to Cthulhu
Mythos fiction, and that one of the differences I see in these two sub-
genres is that Lovecraftian horror is less concerned with actual
contact with the Great Old Ones and all of the traditional Mythos
entities -- and if they do have entities they are often the invention
of the author. "Black Man With a Horn" is one of the finest examples
of this. It's been ages since I've read Wandrei's THE WEB OF EASTER
ISLAND, but I remember it having a nice aura of nameless cosmic
horror, but I cannot recall it having any alien creatures in it. When
I first created Sesqua Valley I had an Old One that I was gonna call
"Shii-N'Guth" be a part of it, but I didn't go ahead with that, thank
Yuggoth. Early on I invented the Irish Old One, Ny-Rakath, for a
story that totally sucks. Eventually I came up with the idea of
having Sesqua Valley and Mount Selta themselves be the "Great Old
Ones" of my mythos, with the valley's shadow-children my blending of
ye Whateley clan and Deep Ones. It will be very interesting to see
what kinds of tales are included in BLACK WINGS and LOVECRAFT
UNBOUND. I know that Ellen Datlow specifically did not want
"tentacular" tales. I have a feeling that, if there are monsters in
the stories of these books, they will be subtly shewn. Of course,
Lumley has had success as an author of Cthulhu Mythos fiction that
centers on monsters -- so it can be done in a way that appeals to
commercial publishers.
icarp...@aol.com
I like the Lovecraftian beasties (you didn't even mention an audience
favorite, the Hounds of Tindalos) but at this point in my reading
experience, they are props to the story, which is about the characters
involved. The hook is not the monster itself, but how it affects the
people involved. I'll read anything Cthulhu mythos but the best
stories don't just invoke a new monster or recreate a long established
one. In a universe with uncounted billions of galaxies, each with
uncounted billions of stars, there can be endlessly numerous new
aliens, but I got really fatigued by the creation of some
unpronoucable agglomeration of letters as the basis for a story (I'm
afraid I feel the same way about creating new mythosy environs or
eldritch tomes). In fact lately I prefer Lovecraftian tales that hint
at malignant entities rather than describing them (Kiernan's Threshold
is a wonderful example of this), or just uses the main ones we already
know: Cthulhu, Shub Niggurath, Azathoth, Nyarlathotep, Yog Sothoth,
Ithaqua and Tsathoggua. I can see the desire to put one's own stamp
on the pantheon, and maybe get a membership card for the ever widening
modern Lovecraft Circle, but as I see it, we're all members anyway.
The riff needs to be about the characters. Of course I forgive all
for a really clever plot, taut action sequences and, particualrly,
good prose.
Matt
Evans
I personally like the idea of including entities in stories should
they seem a pleasant addition or feature. I imagine it would not be a
good idea to include such beings in fiction merely for the sake of it.
If you suddenly came up with of a new Old One or spirit or entity for
the Sesqua Vallley that you felt really fitted with the themes of
area then I don't think it would detract from the story one jot.
Infact I'm sure it would be a brilliant story. After all how is your
making up Shii-N'Guth any better or worse than Mr Klein's Shugoron?
This sounds incredibly pompous coming from someone like me but I think
one of the pitfalls of writing mythos fiction (by that I mean an
amalgamation for the terms mythos/Lovecraftian. I mistrust using the
term Lovecraftian as it is notoriously hard to quantify) is that the
aspiring author should be forced to create something new merely for
the sake of it. If they have a good idea for a new creature/book/place
then they should go for it. If not then they shouldn't.
Evans
> I like the Lovecraftian beasties (you didn't even mention an audience
> favorite, the Hounds of Tindalos) but at this point in my reading
> experience, they are props to the story, which is about the characters
> involved. The hook is not the monster itself, but how it affects the
> people involved.
>
> Matt
While your totaly entitled to that view I belive Lovecraft's own
approach was rather the reverse with the strange events taking centre
stage. Again this isn't ment as a critism I just want to stress that
not everyone is going to agree with it.
Perphaps its due to an empathy shortage on my part but I've allways
found an interesting character is far harder to come across than an
interesting entity.
james ambuehl
Was Shii-N'Guth supposed to be the name for the long-lost Singer in the
Gloom, by chance?
james ambuehl
CONTENTS had such a hard time selling, actually (and still lurking
unwanted on a Diskette in a drawer). I LOVE to create new gods,
monsters, tomes, etc. In fact, I probably scared potential publishers
off with them. Oh well. ;-)
icarp...@aol.com
HPL's stories are what, about 70 years old at this point? While I've
known and loved these works since I was a teen, I don't think you can
argue that he had the best prose anywhere. HPL is no CAS. It is the
cosmic concept that has given HPL his staying power. Over the years
the idea that all you had to do was create a new monster, a fake book
and add a few ia ias and you have a good old fashioned mythos tale has
just gone completely bust. Stories like that were lousy then and they
are worse now. I still have some affection for the Derleth et al
pastiches I read when I was just discovering the genre but if that is
all someone offers up today, it's going to get a big raspberry. Oh, I
still read all of it, but it has to have something more than an
italicized ending to move me nowadays.
Perhaps the fact that you can't find interesting characters says more
about the overall quality of the writing and not the particular genre.
Matt
james ambuehl
Tsathoggua, Ithaqua, Yig, Atlach-Nacha, Yog-Sothoth, Cthulhu and
Shub-Niggurath, (but strangely, no Nyarlathotep stories yet) of course,
but I think I get a charge of creating more of my own such gods,
actually. Volgna-Gath, the Keeper of the Secrets; Nggirth'lu, the
Stalker in the Snows; Istasha, the Cat-Goddess; Lythalia; Ei'lor, the
Star-Seed; Y'lla, the Titanic Tentacled Sea-Worm; Uvhash, the Blood-Mad
God of the Void; Gi-Hoveg, the Aether-Anenome; Haiogh-Yai, the
Outsider; Cthogga, the Dream-Daemon; Ragnalla, the Seeker in the Skies;
Dythalla, the Lord of Lizards; B'gnu-Thun, the Ice God; Ruhtra-Dyoll,
the Fire God; Koth-Uggha, the Crystal Flame; Dygra, the geodic and
jewel-facetted Stone-God; Shuy-Nilh, the Devourer in the Dark;
Xa'Ligha, the Master of Twisted Sound; N'Konda, the Ape-God;
Vhuzompha;.Yaggdytha, the Blue Flame; Shadowy and Shapeless Shavalyoth;
Golden and Shimmering Oztalun (these last 3 being more benign Elder
Gods) Lu-Kthu the Progenitor and so on -- those get my blood stirring!
And the tomes? Well, let's see, we have:LITANIAE AD DEUM FRACEUM;
CLAVICULE COSMOGRAPHICUM; BLOOD-RITUALS OF RHYLKOS; DEVIL-GODS OF THE
LU-KTHU MYTHOS; THE XITHU SHARDS; THE SCROLLS OF GURATH; GLYPHS OF
VOROTH; THE K'HRAA TABELTS: FRAGMENTARY TRANSCRIPTIONS; Deborah
Valence's THE SECRET SISTERHOOD; Reverend Thomas Skyler's THE ELDER
ORACLES; RITUALS OF GLAA-DITH; EI'LOR FRONDS; William Thelder's THE
ULTIMATE WAR; Busch's THE WIDOW'S KISS; THE KQATT MANUCRIPTS, THE PAYRUS
OF KHAMON-RA and so on ad infintum.
Ah, well, to each his own! ;-)
Harksen
> Perhaps the fact that you can't find interesting characters says more
> about the overall quality of the writing and not the particular genre.
That is of course a possibility. I'd guess, though, that in many cases
it's more about preferences than anything else. Some people just don't
much enjoy "character driven" stories and some don't much enjoy
"atmosphere" stories, if at all. Some of us like both, depending on
the actual text;-) Neither says anything about the quality of writing,
IMO. This reminds me that I have heard, over and over again, that "you
need interesting and well-developed characters to create interesting
and well-developed stories." Argh. Nope, not at all. I will admit that
in many cases it *can help* a story if the characters are interesting
and well-developed, but it is not a necessary prerequisite per se.
Many excellent weird tales are proof of this.
Anyway... To return to James Ambuehl's initial concern... I will agree
that when it comes to Cthulhu Mythos stories it would be nice if more
stories featured lesser known entities--and lesser known settings,
books etc., etc. The keyword is "lesser known";-) That said, I think
one of the key reasons the majority of stories feature the "Big
Baddies" is that they quickly resonate in a casual reader; one who
perhaps doesn't know much (or, perhaps more to the point, doesn't
*care* much) about the Mythos, HPL etc, but who still has some
interest in it all... And, hence, more likely to buy the books in
question. In other words, this probably boils down to what sells more.
Having "Cthulhu" appear is more likely to attract attention than
having a "dhole" (regardless of spelling;-)) appear.
Another point of interest--to me, at any rate:-P--is whether you need
certain kind of monsters, books, plot devices, characters and settings
in a story for it to constitute a Cthulhu Mythos tale. As I hint in my
(brief) introduction to ELDRITCH HORRORS: DARK TALES I think these
elements are needed, yes. If none are present they may still
constitute a *Lovecraftian* tale but will no longer be a *Cthulhu
Mythos* tale, IMO. Given the variety of elements that *can* help
constitute a Cthulhu Mythos tale such a tale does not by default have
to be "hack work." If, however, a writer specifically sets out to have
these "guidelines" as the only thing in a story, then it will be, I
think.
My thoughts at the beginning of this reply is, of course, with the
Cthulhu Mythos aspect alone in mind:-)
Sorry the rant.
-Henrik
Thom
shoggoth here and a ghoul there—i actually wrote the one with the
shoggoth ("Black Pearl") for Jim—but the mover and shaker has been
Nyarlat. because he gets involved, you know? plus, there are 999
aspects to choose from or make up.
i've "invented" one book to use as a prop (Azazel's OTHERWORLD) and
gotten very kind permission from William Browning Spencer to use his
creation, Philip Kenan's THE DESPICABLE QUEST. of course, White Wolf's
lawyers will have my ass on a platter if i quote anything from the
book that came from RESUME WITH MONSTERS, but at "a quarter-million
words" of fictional tome, there is _lot_ of unexplored novel to choose
from.
i had about half a story with the Fire Vampires, but it died
stillborn. *sigh*
Harksen
and it crossed my mind that perhaps another reason that most writers
go for the Biggies is a matter of the writer feeling they "know" these
entities better? A sort of laziness perhaps also enters, in this light
of things? Meaning--most people probably feel fairly safe using the
Big Ones as vehicle, since most of us by default know at least the
basics about them; but when it comes to the smaller, lesser known then
it becomes tricky. We may recall the name, but "Ahem--how was it again
with Lesser Known Creature X? Can't recall--oh well, I'll stick to
Cthulhu, then."
I am not saying it is always like this, of course; but I wouldn't be
surprised if this line of thought is present in some form or other on
a quite regular basis.
More thoughts later...
-Henrik
james ambuehl
in it. I would suppose to do a good Cthulhu Mythos Monster story you
would have to delve into the Monster's psyches, rather than just have a
big tentacled Thing from space which eats people -- but that could be
fun too. I'd love to read a series of tales with the Serpent-Men,
especially, since they are said to be alien, yet technologically
advanced. And it would be great to see a Mi-Go base-on-siege story,
perhaps, ala ALIEN. There are a few wonderfully-crafted lesser monster
stories here and there (some decent ones in the Japanese Mythos
anthologies, I seem to recall) throughout the Mythos, but 9 times out of
10 they involve the Ghouls or the Deep Ones, it seems.