Hi! I got a new concept in watch design, any suggestion?
winnobizi
I have a new concept in watch design.
It fall out of the current watch types.( pin and digtal)
I am the inventor.
I am reluctant to disclose the preview of it.
Do you think I can sell it to any manufacturers without letting them
see it?
Any suggestions?
regards,
cwwinson
St. John Smythe
> I am reluctant to disclose the preview of it.
As well you should be. Filing a patent application, however, is a way
to make it public in a way that will provide you some protection.
> Do you think I can sell it to any manufacturers without letting them
> see it?
No. They didn't become successful by buying a pig in a poke. Actually,
major manufacturers would generally rather not hear about it at all, for
reasons I would be happy to elaborate if needed. And those agreeing to
see it before a patent application is filed, will usually require that
it be done under a non-disclosure agreement which is typically skewed
rather heavily in their favor.
> Any suggestions?
Yes, raise funds and develop the idea as far as starting production on a
small scale. Then, license your method (or sell your company) to one or
more of the majors. Profit!
Best of success,
--
St. John, with a few patents in the family...
the swisswatchguy
St. John is perfectly right.
It would also make sense that you really check within the watch
industry's products and patents, whether your idea, similar or very
close to it, has not yet been developed, probed and rejected for one or
the other reason.
I know of numerous very interesting patents & developments, which have
never be realised, or never have really succeeded, just because people
lack the spirit of experimenting something new, in a fied where
timelessness, tradition, heirloom & emotions as well as plain securlar
habits are paramount.
I have lived through so many inventors submitting so many revolutionary
"inventions" during my carreer, that I tend to be a bit dubious any
genuine "patentable" revolution in the art of making watches,
respectivelly indicate the time, which can be manufactured and also can
meet the interest of the consumers.
Wishing you good luck in facing the difficult challenge ahead of you.
winnobizi
But is it worth to file patent in watch industry as the product life
cycle is so shart and the infringement cannot be stopped especially in
china and hong kong.
Can you tell me , in general what is the budget a big watch
manufacturer will spend on watch design or its product development?
Can I targeting this budget and negotiate? Suggesting a betting on new
concept. If they usually have that budget in hand, I think it seems
reasonable. With that funding, designs can all be patented easier.
you know it is so easy to realize how a watch can be made even only one
glance of it.
So,my point is, the preview can only be given to the only one.
If it is viewed more than once, I have no point to continue seeking
other prospective manufacturers. Risk will expose at once. And I will
lose my opportunities from other manufacturer that may fund me to go
ahead.
I believe it will stimulate the market because of this style. I am not
able to produce it even in small scale.
I need to use tactics to get as much as possible in the first hit,
though it seems so difficult.
And what other forms of cooperation that may blink in your mind?
regards,
cwwinson
St. John Smythe
> Can I targeting this budget and negotiate? Suggesting a betting on new
> concept. If they usually have that budget in hand, I think it seems
> reasonable. With that funding, designs can all be patented easier.
There is an overriding obstacle. To put it bluntly, big companies do
not want to hear ideas from independent inventors, for some pretty good
legal reasons. They will sometimes hear them, but on terms advantageous
to themselves and disadvantageous to the inventor. Patent it yourself
before even thinking about approaching the bigs.
--
St. John
winnobizi
Can you tell me what approach will you do if you patent it?
Seek manufacturers or produce it and market it first?
cw
St. John Smythe
> Can you tell me what approach will you do if you patent it?
>
> Seek manufacturers or produce it and market it first?
Once it's patented, you will have a much better reception from the
manufacturers. But it's far better if you can demonstrate success in
the marketplace.
--
St. John
the swisswatchguy
Be careful on how you patent it, in order to cover the main watch
producing countries at once. Nowaways there must be a "European" patent
system, whereby a patent registered in one EC country should also apply
to the other EC countries, with a special provision for Hong Kong, that
U.K. patents are also valid there? There even might be some agreement
existing now between Switzerland and the EC.
In legal matters, nothing comes cheaply, especially good international
IP advise. You must be preparedto invest some money up front.
winnobizi
I don't think it is possible for me to patent it like this.
How about selling my service to them in this idea?
that means a working contract in this design?
If I am a big player in watch industry I surely will invest to patent
it.
But I think those who are in watch business won't be serious about
their own business. Because profit margin is so thin and price is also
cheap.
winno
Dieter Michel
> That's why I am totally worry about.
> I don't think it is possible for me to patent it like this.
to my mind, the basic problem is that protecting
and selling pure ideas is rather difficult, especially
if it's only possible to uncover the idea once.
Even if manufacturers sign a non-disclosure contract
with somobody they don't know, there is still a chance
that they may sys: "Oh, this looks like the design
we worked out some years ago but decided not to
put into practice for the next couple of years,
but maybe in the future!" This may even be true,
because nobody (including us) knows anything about
your idea. But even if it's not, it's not easy to
protect the idea itself.
From what I know about patents, they protect a way
of solving a technical problem using a new method
(of manufacture or whatever). They are not made
for solely protecting ideas.
There are methods to protect industrial designs,
however, they bear the risk that some changes in
the original design suffice to render the protection
worthless.
I for one would encourage St. John Smythes recommendation
> Yes, raise funds and develop the idea as far as starting
> production on a small scale. Then, license your method
> (or sell your company) to one or more of the majors.
My personal experience is that it's a big difference
when negotiating with big(ger) companies whether you
simply have an (non-disclosed) idea to sell or prove
to be able to perform the first steps (or the whole
project) without them.
Best regards,
Dieter Michel
the swisswatchguy
Stoat
copyright for the ethereal?
--
Stoatgobbler
winnobizi
I think I need other approaches to do it.
I don't mind give it out and be small , but I need it done big so not
to waste this rare and precious watch style.
But, to produce minimum quantity , cannot make lots of money and it
will expose to the market immediately, and most of the profit will turn
thin when other competitors get in battle.
I am thinking of let each manufacturer to quote an amount they are
willing to risk and I take the highest. That is it.
Do you know how can I do this?
Best,
winno
St. John Smythe
> I am thinking of let each manufacturer to quote an amount they are
> willing to risk and I take the highest. That is it.
Just keep in mind that, until your patent is at least applied for, the
response to every company after the first to see it is going to be
something along the lines of:
"Mr. Winnobizi, have you shown this to any of our competitors? You
have? Thank you for your trouble. Good day."
--
St. John
winnobizi
that is why I reluctant to tell or let them see the preview.
Even you get it patented, and still they will feel unsafe if you are
telling to someone.
For this time being, what I can do is to trade it with commercial
secret so that no one has first sight.
I even want to kill my design documents.
But how to trade this secret can be very .... headache.
Need some smart guy to help.
Best,
winno
winnobizi
Invention, Outlooks ,Utilities can be patented.
copyright is inherit once you finish your work.
Dieter Michel
> I have a new concept in watch design.
> It fall out of the current watch types.( pin and digtal)
by the way: Your posting was very inspiring.
While thinking about new watch types, I had
an idea about how an unusual style non-(purely)
mechanical watch could look like.
This one, however, allows for the construction
of a prototype without extraordinary effort.
Maybe I'm going to build a demonstrator in the
future ...
Thanks for making me think, and ...
all the best & good luck with your project!
Dieter Michel
Dieter Michel
> I think I need other approaches to do it.
> I don't mind give it out and be small ,
being a small (and maybe very select) company
doesn't need to be a bad thing in the watch
business, especially not when you have a very
unique design to offer.
> but I need it done big so not to waste this
> rare and precious watch style.
Does it need to go into the mass market?
I have seen some companies grow themselves
to death. They had better refused some orders
or lift their prices rather than expand and
be *forced* onto a higher turnover level.
> Do you know how can I do this?
Maybe you could start small and put the extra
effort (read: money) into proper marketing.
Very few customers really *know* the companies
who manufacture the products they buy. They
normally have an image about the manufacturer
that does not necessarily need to coincide with
reality.
Best regards,
Dieter Michel
winnobizi
If you think ,then you are improving.
>Does it need to go into the mass market?
I have seen some companies grow themselves
to death. They had better refused some orders
or lift their prices rather than expand and
be *forced* onto a higher turnover level.
If you expect a competition in the future that pull price down and
slash profit, I think the best thing is to earn at the first punch. And
this is the best strategy to earn enough at the introductory phase.
And if you are strengthened with this first time profit, you will not
fear to cut price in the future, and you are able to develop more
design base on it.
Most watch business are following leader's price and they are
competiting with little design and thin profit.
Those who competing with desgin as their advantage, need proper
marketing strategy so targeted prospects can be attracted and make
purchase. Any customers need new ideas all the time. And therefore
those who compete with design can survive easier.
That is why I need the first punch to be big and that guarantee the
success of both, me and the manufacturer.
Repeating business will grow, but somehow will lose to competitor to
certain extend.
The best time for revolutionary design should be at its first punch in
markeiting.
thanks for your blessing,
best regards,
cwwinson
the swisswatchguy
Quite correct: patents are basically based upon manufacturing methods.
Copyright is the result of any paper written on any subject, a design,
a shape, a visible work of art.
the swisswatchguy
Well analysed. Then in addition, you must have not only a reliable
conceptual & manufacturing base, but also a strong distribution
potential, as well as the means to make the revolutionary concept
known, recognised and accepted by enough potential target customers,
having enough buying power and being willing to spend it on a surge.
This also means that you have to build up sufficient inventory in order
to deliver on time (during the time the fag lasts).
All this needs careful planning by proven professionals.
Noah Little
> Quite correct: patents are basically based upon manufacturing methods.
Methods, certainly, but not only manufacturing methods. Also
implementation methods, operational methods, etc.
> Copyright is the result of any paper written on any subject, a design,
> a shape, a visible work of art.
But just to clarify, in the U.S., a patent may be applied for and
granted based purely on documents; no working model is necessary.
--
Noah
winnobizi
capabilities and that is difficult.
the marketing can be sophisticated as how to take order fast and big is
the key.
If it is effectively done, with big quantity of orders, then
manufacturer can be eaiser to talk.
Are there any forms of transaction that buy orders from other? Just
quota in textile industry that impose on chinese goods by US?
Anysuggestion?
Murray
Murray
Murray in Calgary, Alberta, Canada
the swisswatchguy
IMHO,
Yes, go to the head of your family clan and negotiate with him the
opportunity.
If it does not work, try it on yourself, but do not try to do it the
Western way, as you are not ready for it and do not have the
connections, nor the money for it.
If you cannot, respectivelly have not the nerves nor the character to
carry the world on your shoulders, then forget about the whole matter
and enjoy life otherwise.
Dieter Michel
> That is why to make it successful, the first partner whould have this
> capabilities and that is difficult.
>
> the marketing can be sophisticated as how to take order fast and big is
> the key.
two questions:
As I'm not a marketing expert (especially not concerning
watches), I will assume that your approach to sell as many
pieces as soon as possible after market entry is meaningful.
1. Apart from the general strategy this concepts seems to
assume that your new watch concept is not only different
from the usual, but also appealing enough to make many
people want to buy the watch, as soon as it's available
no matter from which manufacturer. Is that correct?
Example: The Berlin clock (software emulation found at:
http://www.kojak-online.de/berlin-uhr/images/Berlin.exe)
uses a somewhat unique way to display the time, never-
theless, there aren't huge masses of Berlin clocks and
watches (although the concept would be watch compatible)
on the market.
2. If your concept is actually significantly different
from how time is displayed by watches currently on the
market, there should be the possibility to apply for a
patent. This would at least ensure that you have the
priority for that patent and nobody else can patent it
anymore.
From personal experience, I can only talk about Germany,
but here, patent application documents do not need to be
published immediately after the application. Of course,
the process of granting a patent requires publication
in order to allow third parties to check whether your
application is in conflict with one of their patents.
Anyhow, there normally is a period during which your
application is not published, but you may have the
opportunity to negotiate using the fact of the application.
For a manufacturer, a watch concept that can be patent
protected may be more interesting to buy than a concept
that can be built by anyone as soon as the first ad or
watch sees the light of the sun.
Not really a solution for your problem, just some remarks.
Best regards,
Dieter Michel
winnobizi
Without help from other, one alone have no enough power to do business.
There is no technical difficulty in the design at all.
I can make it patent pending any time. But I need a guy who are
experienced in watch industry and know how it can be done with right
strategy.
certainly, I do believe you guys can help.
If you have any idea that you think work, please PM me or add me in
your messenger.
best regards,
winno
the swisswatchguy
the swisswatchguy
It seems to me that you are repeating the procedure of asking for
advice endlessly:
are you waiting for Godot?
http://samuel-beckett.net/Waiting_for_Godot_Part1.html
http://samuel-beckett.net/Waiting_for_Godot_Part2.html
a synopsis and analyse of the play:
http://www.theatrehistory.com/french/beckett002.html
Otherwise, did you ever consider my previous suggestions?
In any case, should you need good IP solicitors:
http://www.lovells.com/Lovells/Worldwide/Asia.htm
They are not cheap, but very good.
Reading Samuel Becket's play also.
winnobizi
It is great play. thank youl
Your suggestion surely work if I have some richy uncle who can spend
or bet. Then I can recruit some able man to do the job they are
experienced.
If not,I won't give up even I am not able to do it myself. I can give
it to someone who can.
That is why I am seeking partners who are smart , experience and
legendary.
This thing, I think, is not ordinary,but legendary. Difficulty is not
the single obstacle, but the personality.
To decide what model is more effective, I raise two model which I think
may be sutiable to develop. But with my limited experience, your
opinion can be valuable for me to decide which way to go.
1. Selling a new brand and exclusively this type of watch. No other
company should do the same. (patent it and cooperate with a big brand
company)
2. Selling the part and let other company to do their own design and
sell. (patent it and sell to watch companies)
These two approach can have their goods and bads, What will you choose
and why?
regards,
winno
winnobizi
>1.never- theless, there aren't huge masses of Berlin clocks and
watches (although the concept would be watch compatible)
on the market.
I think the ease of comprehension of time is the key to the successful
of a design. No matter how well your design, if wearer cannot see the
time at ease, it will give a reason not to .On the other hand,
education to the customer may need a long time to promote new
convention. But that is not the case for my concept, It is as easy as
pin watch.
2. talking to someone with patent can be more save, I agreed.
However, I can file a PPA in US, and the real application should have
somebody to enforce and continue.
However, the approach how to make this case become more feasible need
brainstorming
May be I break up the jobs into pieces and let some of the partners
share a portion of it so to carry out step by steps can also give some
solution if really there is no one sole investor or manufacturer who
will take the chance.
best regard,
cwwinson
Noah Little
> I think the ease of comprehension of time is the key to the successful
> of a design. No matter how well your design, if wearer cannot see the
> time at ease, it will give a reason not to .On the other hand,
> education to the customer may need a long time to promote new
> convention. But that is not the case for my concept, It is as easy as
> pin watch.
If your invention involves a new way to represent the time of day to the
user, then before investing a large chunck of your life in the project,
you may want to investigate how EVERY ONE of the many (hundreds?
thousands?) alternative time display schemes developed to date has
failed to gain widespread acceptance or adoption.
To put it another way, look around you. How many watches or clocks do
you see that do not have either conventional hands or a conventional
numeric display? Don't think for a moment that's because no other
methods have been produced.
That's not to say it can't be done; it's merely to remind you of the
extreme improbability of doing so. The prudent watch manufacturer would
do extensive consumer testing (market research) before starting
technical development.
--
Noah
omniscient idiot
> That is why I am seeking partners who are smart , experience and
> legendary.
<snipped>
I hope I will not offend you with this remark. I may feel the same
thing if I had invented the same thing you do.
But did it ever occur to you that smart, experienced and legendary (not
to say well-connected and well-funded) people may also have enough
power of the pocket etc. to choose someone other than you as their
partner?
Are you trying to ask "if you are smart, please show me to jump right
to the top, without having to spend the hard work of actually making
money starting from the bottom rung of the ladder, and I don't intend
to give you any financial credit, because the invention was mine"?
Regards, oi
winnobizi
That is a question of chance.
OK, If you are entering the competition, Join the battle of million's
design cataglory which you may risk the same but getting thin
profit/.return.
Or Getting a new chance that is new and low competition with good
return /sales .
In other word, when you bet in horse racing, what is your risk
preference? long or shot ?
When every body is competiting with designs, they know this is the way
they make their product outstand from other. (product differentiation)
.
Design values much in thiis strategy. It means orders with profits.
If on top of it, there is something basically evolve new generation.
It is the best option for product differentiation.
Why other fail there can be lots of reasons. But I do believe they did
not choose a right option or strategy that make the course up, not
down.
For watches, I think doing market research is not a proper cost to
spend. The need in stylish product always difficult to tell. however,
if investors feel safe to have that report and willing to pay, I have
no reason to reject. It is waste of money to judge something that is so
objective and may change according to the mood of the customers.
I would rather use it in marketing so to generate more sales.
regards
winno
St. John Smythe
> For watches, I think doing market research is not a proper cost to
> spend. The need in stylish product always difficult to tell. however,
> if investors feel safe to have that report and willing to pay, I have
> no reason to reject. It is waste of money to judge something that is so
> objective and may change according to the mood of the customers.
Let me say this in as compassionate a way as possible, based on
real-world marketing experience. Anyone who plans to market a novel
horological device, and is going to invest any more than a trivial
amount of time, effort and money in the process, is a fool if he does
not do market research.
He dicho.
--
St. John
the swisswatchguy
St. John Smythe wrote:
> Let me say this in as compassionate a way as possible, based on
> real-world marketing experience. Anyone who plans to market a novel
> horological device, and is going to invest any more than a trivial
> amount of time, effort and money in the process, is a fool if he does
> not do market research.
>
> He dicho.
> --
> St. John
He dicho: AMEN!
Good Luck
winnobizi
Market research is expensive and no guarantee.
but when stake is big, you may feel safe if you have that report.
St. John Smythe
Let me see if I understand. You, lacking actual experience in these
matters, come to this forum asking for advice, and when you receive it
from those who have extensive experience, real-life experience, you
argue about it. No, actually, I guess I don't get it.
The expense of market research might be compared with the expense of
education. If you think education is expensive, just compare it with
the cost of ignorance.
--
St. John
omniscient idiot
http://www.talkaboutprofessions.com/group/alt.inventors/messages/59192.html
http://groups.msn.com/ideasbycwwinson/energyenvprotec.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=250&LastModified=4675505141989982833#.
I guess I am experienced enough to know that knowledge sometimes kills
creativity. Still, this makes me think that this dude is going
overboard in an opposite direction: he puts his head just above cloud
nine always, but he fears the real world, and therefore shies away from
pertinent details. With this degree of fogginess in an idea, who will
be willing to give him any nontrivial funding?
As if it were not enough, the current thread seems to suggest that he
thinks that he knows better than those with real experience!
Let us hope that his current idea is better worked - either that or
that nobody is misled by it.
Regards, oi
winnobizi
I think I will leave it to professionals those who can do it.
I hope it won't bother me to think that kind of business decision.
Thanks remind me anyway.
winno.
winnobizi
winnobizi
the swisswatchguy
Actually, you do not need to feel sorry for us, rather, we should feel
sorry for you: being the unrecognized inventor of revolutionary systems
of producing energy with dynamite, making revolutionary watches, and
many other inventions who tries to find recognition and investors is
not easy. If it may help you, please consider that you are not the only
one: hundreds of thousands of your colleagues languish in special
clinics. You at least still seem to be at large somewhere in a HKG's
New Territory highrise. Still time for you to touch down!
Good luck!
winnobizi
I believe all inventors are confidence but trying hard to put it into
practice.
Every new ideas is a change to our world. I am not trying to suggest I
know better than others, but just know something that other may not
bother to think. If that let's you think uncomfortable, I am sorry, But
that it attracts you to read, at least , right? hope that work and
leads me to the right person.
Something you are right, real world make me fear as I am ignorance as
what you have said. Difficulties ahead always hinder those who have
new ideas.
Every inventor want their idea success with care. I believe those who
want working with me also want my action go right.
For an inventor anything went wrong at the beginning will fail
eveyrthing, don't you agree?
If you think you can, and interested in my venture, we can talk.
I am ready give most of my part to those who can make it happen. If my
argument make you hard feeling, please be open minded, I just hope if
there is any other ideas or options. I am learning from you too.
I am not hard to deal persom But just a guy walk step by step with
fear and hope.
I am not ready to fund my projects just because I lack someone with
experienced like you guys.
Writing business plan is headache for me, I am trying hard to work on
some but I think I'd better to let other professional guys to do it.
Thanks for your reply
regards.
winno
winnobizi
>find recognition and investors is not easy
That is why I hope the investo of this project is not someone who
professionally minimizing rsik, but someone who are watch lover and
rich, enough to bring new watch to watch lover around the globe.
> it may help you, please consider that you are not the only
one: hundreds of thousands of your colleagues languish in special
clinics.
That is why inventors need help from professionals who can shock the
world with love for profits.
>consider that you are not the only
one: hundreds of thousands of your colleagues languish in special
clinics at large somewhere in a HKG's New Territory highrise, Still
time for you to touch down!
I am already ground and waiting to fly. nothing loss!
Every inventor is a dreamer and the whole world economic are enriched
with their ideas so that people can have business and jobs.
>Good luck!
Thanks
Actually my terms of cooperation for this watch project are 3.
1. design idea will only be disclosed when investment ready . ie. ready
to market . But I leave management and operation all yours.
2. I cannot be get rid of in anyways unless my consent. Friends won't
do that.
3. I reserved the final right to change management that is not in
favour the company.
There are few who retreat in front of difficulties. That makes the rest
people common.
by cwwinson
regards,
winno
the swisswatchguy
this is a hyper surrealistic scenery you are putting up. Actually I
prefer Magrit, Daly, etc:
http://www.mcs.csuhayward.edu/~malek/Surrealism/
please enjoy!
winnobizi
Before anything happened , I agree with you.
Just like how people comment about the invention of train, aeroplanes,
or even space shuttles.
Artist pursue their imagination throug painting or sculptures,
inventors are same type of creatives who make it real through
cooperation.
Of course, to cooperate with others, we need money to glue, interests
to bond and opportunities to share.
I believe not all afraid of risk, that is why casino can do their
business.
right?
cheers
winno
Olaf Peuss
> >find recognition and investors is not easy
>
> That is why I hope the investo of this project is not someone who
> professionally minimizing rsik, but someone who are watch lover and
> rich, enough to bring new watch to watch lover around the globe.
> Actually my terms of cooperation for this watch project are 3.
>
> 1. design idea will only be disclosed when investment ready . ie.
ready
> to market . But I leave management and operation all yours.
>
> 2. I cannot be get rid of in anyways unless my consent. Friends won't
> do that.
>
> 3. I reserved the final right to change management that is not in
> favour the company.
>
> There are few who retreat in front of difficulties. That makes the
rest
> people common.
I've followed the discussion so far and found it interesting.
In the back of your mind, I suppose, you still hang on to that idea of
getting a 'big business' partner involved in order to make and market
your idea.
My sincere warning: Don't do that! As a layman in such things as patent,
copyright and trademark law (and probably a novice in business
management, too), your chances of 'surviving' an encounter with those
experienced, hard-nosed businessmen and their armies of equally
hard-nosed lawyers are practicall non-existant. You're simply not at eye
level with them, at least not yet, but you would have to negotiate with
them at their terms, on their own turf. When you start a self-employed
career in business, the worst thing that can happen, is to start dealing
with the 'big boys' straight away. Those topcats from the watch industry
have a dozen of your kind for starters, between their first and second
cup of tea in the morning. It hasn't got so much to do with intelligence
but with experience and expert knowledge, both of which you can't
possible have when you're a freshman.
As someone else said before in this thread: If you can't carry the world
on your shoulders, don't get into it. Either you are willing to do
everything yourself (at least in the first years), or you'd better stay
clear of becoming a self-employed watchmaking inventor and businessman
at all.
A lot of now famous watchmakers started out as a one-man show, e. g.
Gerd-Rüdiger Lang (Chronoswiss), Alain Silberstein or Franck Muller.
George Daniels (he of co-axial escapement fame) had to try for more than
25 years before his invention was finally accepted and marketed by
Omega. All these people had to go a long way before they became the
celebrated master watchmakers that they are today; nothing came easy to
them. Only by gradually gaining experience, constantly learning about
watchmaking, marketing and business management and, most important of
all, working their butts off 7/24, they have grown into the mature, must
respected and well-to-do superstars inside the horological world. And
it's probably better that way, because when something comes easy, it
also goes easy and is worth nothing.
Making your invention known to the world of horology isn't a small feat
to accomplish. It will take a firm belief in your ideas, consistent hard
work, a little luck, too, and finally (and I mean finally in the sense
of 'it's the last thing you should be worried about') some money as
well. If you concentrate on worrying about making money instead of
gradually promoting your invention, you'll end up having neither money
nor fame. If you grow slowly instead, you'll always have the experience,
knowledge and means required to take the next step. You'll probably be
happier that way.
Anyway, I wish you luck and success in whatever your plans are.
Best regards,
OP
winnobizi
After reading your post, I appreciate your sincere warning.
It is not an easy task.
Many thanks telling me what you know about how other watch makers start
their business.
> Only by gradually gaining experience, constantly learning about
watchmaking, marketing and business management and, most important of
all, working their butts off 7/24, they have grown into the mature,
must respected and well-to-do superstars inside the horological world.
And it's probably better that way, because when something comes easy,
it also goes easy and is worth nothing.
Agree, but current day technology allow us to do business faster but
not easier. Shorten the route, I believe there must have some
alternatives.
As a creatives, making new is our talents, trial and error is our work,
success anf failure is our ending. With your support, I believe there
is someway out.
Thanks
winno
the swisswatchguy
winnobizi wrote:
> Dear OP,
> Agree, but current day technology allow us to do business faster but
> not easier. Shorten the route, I believe there must have some
> alternatives.
>
> As a creatives, making new is our talents, trial and error is our work,
> success anf failure is our ending. With your support, I believe there
> is someway out.
>
> Thanks
> winno
Dear winno,
Your above mitigated reaction to OP's well meant clear-cut warning, and
the fact that you have already tried the same plot in other NGs, give
me the bad feeling that you are not genuine at all and just looking for
somebody stupid enough to invest money in your little self-devised
scheme of making a fast buck on his back.
I have many Chinese friends scattered between Taiwan, Hong Kong,
Mainland as well as in the Diaspora around the world. I know how the
system work and I also know that there is no bigger adventurous, read
gambling, spirit than the Chinese'. As you have not found your
sponsor within the Chinese community, it means that either you and / or
your invention is (are) worth nothing, respectivelly confirms my above
theory.
Otherwise, you would not find the time anymore to correspond here,
concentrating all your efforts in doing it the way OP has so clearly
explained to you.
Keep your face in not answering, please.
St. John Smythe
> Agree, but current day technology allow us to do business faster but
> not easier. Shorten the route, I believe there must have some
> alternatives.
>
> As a creatives, making new is our talents, trial and error is our work,
> success anf failure is our ending. With your support, I believe there
> is someway out.
Well, there is one tried and tested way: marry the boss's daughter.
--
St. John
Olaf Peuss
> > Only by gradually gaining experience, constantly learning about
> > watchmaking, marketing and business management and, most important
of
> > all, working their butts off 7/24, they have grown into the mature,
> > must respected and well-to-do superstars inside the horological
world.
> Agree, but current day technology allow us to do business faster but
> not easier. Shorten the route, I believe there must have some
> alternatives.
Rule no. 1: The road to real success knows no shortcuts.
> As a creatives, making new is our talents, trial and error is our
work,
> success anf failure is our ending. With your support, I believe there
> is someway out.
Whenever you try to take shortcuts, you'll miss out on necessary
experience and knowledge, the lack of which will cause you to slip and
break your spine on the way that still lays ahead.
Rule no. 2: In an honest business, nothing can substitute the firm
belief in a good idea, good planning and consistent hard work to put it
all into becoming reality.
Rule no. 3: Money is a means to an end. Get your objectives right before
you worry about money.
OTOH, if one plays foul and tries to device some fraudulent scheme,
there might be a quick road to money (though not to happiness stemming
from real success). I don't believe, however, that it would be a very
good idea to ask for advice to develop such schemes in this group.
Neither would any of the good people here be stupid enough to buy a pig
in a poke or be of assistance in trying to sell such to others.
And with these words, I shall rest my case until something more
substantial than all those meaningless phrases of trial, error, success,
failure etc. will be added to this topic. :-)
Best regards,
OP
winnobizi
>Your above mitigated reaction to OP's well meant clear-cut warning, and
the fact that you have already tried the same plot in other NGs, give
me the bad feeling that you are not genuine at all and just looking for
somebody stupid enough to invest money in your little self-devised
scheme of making a fast buck on his back.
Sorry, I never try to annoy anyone here.
> have many Chinese friends scattered between Taiwan, Hong Kong,
Mainland as well as in the Diaspora around the world. I
If you know, you must know why I am here. Seeking more civilized place
to make innovations. If you do not know, ask other inventors why? With
your attitudes, I am sure you do not know,neither a pro.
>there is no bigger adventurous, read gambling, spirit than the Chinese'
you are right. but I feel unsafe working with them!
> it means that either you and / or your invention is (are) worth nothing, respectivelly confirms my above theory.
Hope you can find my posts in chinese Newgroups. I am clean!
And I am disappointed to getting you against me with bad feelings. I
talk and discuss in civilized ways!
>concentrating all your efforts in doing it the way OP has so clearly
explained to you.
I appriciate the suggestion that OP mentioned. You may notice, there
are no inventors seeking partners else where except me. Most inventors
will only deal with the top of big players. And mostly the boss.
Inventors won't bother start a business and start it over at the
beginning. Patents are not for the small business and they cannot
afford neither. Most inventors want a quick cash and get away as soon
as possible. They will only help richer become richer.
As an individual inventor,I am not able to do that. I need to try my
best to seek opportunities, and that is why I am here.
>Keep your face in not answering, please.
I am honest, sincere and frank. Why should I afraid of answering here?
You may disagree my point or discussion, shouldn't you trying to take
away my dignity!
winno
winnobizi
there might be a quick road to money (though not to happiness stemming
from real success). I don't believe, however, that it would be a very
good idea to ask for advice to develop such schemes in this group.
Neither would any of the good people here be stupid enough to buy a pig
in a poke or be of assistance in trying to sell such to others.
Hey, reluctant to disclose design or idea is for protection of myself
and my interests, Every inventors knows it. It is basic knowledge.
Posting to other newsgroup doesn't mean anything wrong. Do you only
visit and post this newsgroup ? I don't believe. How many newsgroup I
posted? not more than 4 . What a big deal?! What's for internet?
Playing games only?
If someone tells you he is going to make you rich, common people will
ask how, but smart person will ask why? Why should he tell you?
I know you are a hardworking guy. What you believe hardworking is the
key to success. I never deny this But in current day business, we need
more.. Strategy is the key too.
May be you all not understand my position. I am not in watch industry.
As many other innovators , innovations not neccesarily come from the
industry.
What I can do in business is little.My choice is helping those watch
entrepreneurs to gain more competitive advantage throug new ideas.
OP you have mentioned that they are big nose. Yes, my bargaining power
is low and may get little money just for fun. But that is reality.
Of course , the best situation is working with someone who see the
importance and know how to work this out. I am optimistic in my
personality. I see hope. Give up is easy but every single lottery
ticket is different, why should I tear the ticket before end resullt ?
Thanks all you guys give me advice and suggestion. I apologize that I
may mislead what I want for the questions. I should have ask what is my
best option to introduce a new type of watch to the industry for my
case. And I think it is not easy to answer.
I know sometime I annoyed you guys with junk words. Sorry about that.
Though it is discouraging, I will find my way out.
Best wishes to all,
cwwinson, inventpreneur from hong kong.
BTW: for those who may want to see how I presented it to my prospective
investor in the last month. you may visit this link
http://groups.msn.com/ideasbycwwinson/fashiontrend.msnw?action=get_message&mview=1&ID_Message=316
Yes, I failed as expected.
Bye all,
St. John Smythe
St. John Smythe
> Bye all,
>
> St. John Smythe
What's that about? Why would you sign my name to your post?
--
St. John
"Never ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained by
incompetence."
winnobizi
Sorry, St. John Smythe , I intend to quote your previous dialogue but
missed it. I didn't notice your name is at the end.
Sorry...