Train hits parade float in Midland TX carrying veterans - anyone got video of this?

[Casey Jones]

Someone somewhere must have video of this. I guess it will be posted to
youtube in the next few days.

Can't even pull off a parade without getting people killed.

===========================================

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2233746/Midland-Texas-4-dead-17-injured-train-hits-parade-float-carrying-wounded-veterans.html

The first float pulled ahead and successfully cleared the tracks, but
the second float, still filled with people, was smashed by the
locomotive.

Two people died at the scene. Two more died at the hospital.

Ten of the victims are in critical condition. Eight are stable.

The special convoy was meant to kick off as spacial weekend for the
veterans and their families, including an all-expenses-paid deer hunt.
(Related story: Texas deer breath sigh of relief)

This is a shot of the tragic parade float just moments before it was
wrecked and destroyed by a train:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/11/16/article-2233746-160D73C0000005DC-876_634x412.jpg

Picture of typical american family - eXtraLarge size:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/11/16/article-2233746-160FA4D8000005DC-42_634x412.jpg

"died heroically saving his wife" - which is surprising, given her mass.

[denni...@gmail.com]

On Friday, November 16, 2012 9:15:39 AM UTC-5, Casey Jones wrote:
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2233746/Midland-Texas-4-dead-17-injured-train-hits-parade-float-carrying-wounded-veterans.html

That story is so f*cked up you can't believe a word it says.

If that train was moving at 60MPH, there is NOTHING the train crew could have done. It takes over a mile to stop a train at 60MPH.

If the train was moving at 60MPH, that trailer would be a mile down the road, and twisted up like a pretzel. The death toll would be much higher, as in, everybody including the truck driver. From the pictures, looks like some chairs were knocked over.

I bet it was moving at more like 6MPH, not 60.

If the lights and gates were working, what the hell was the truck doing crossing the tracks?

[Ed Pawlowski]

<denni...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4d88cef6-52ce-4e45...@googlegroups.com...

The story I read said the first truck crossed and was stopped not leaving
enough room for the second truck. Why he was stopped was not stated. In a
parade, there are often sirens and horns blowing so the crossing gate bells
would not be heard.

[Stormin Mormon]

I guess no one practices rail grade safety, anymore?
I was taught to wait until you're totally sure there is
room on the other side of the tracks. Look, listen,
feel for oncoming train. Then, promptly cross
completely. I've been doing that for decades.

I'm glad some of the people were able to jump or
be pushed to safety. Still, this need not have
happened if the driver was practicing safety.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Ed Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote in message
news:pZWdnSnMh4itxTvN...@giganews.com...

<denni...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4d88cef6-52ce-4e45...@googlegroups.com...
> On Friday, November 16, 2012 9:15:39 AM UTC-5, Casey Jones wrote:
>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2233746/Midland-Texas-4-dead-17-injured-train-hits-parade-float-carrying-wounded-veterans.html
>

[harry]

On Nov 16, 3:09 pm, dennisga...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, November 16, 2012 9:15:39 AM UTC-5, Casey Jones wrote:

> >http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2233746/Midland-Texas-4-dead-...

>
> That story is so f*cked up you can't believe a word it says.
>
> If that train was moving at 60MPH, there is NOTHING the train crew could have done. It takes over a mile to stop a train at 60MPH.
>
> If the train was moving at 60MPH, that trailer would be a mile down the road, and twisted up like a pretzel. The death toll would be much higher, as in, everybody including the truck driver. From the pictures, looks like some chairs were knocked over.
>
> I bet it was moving at more like 6MPH, not 60.
>
> If the lights and gates were working, what the hell was the truck doing crossing the tracks?

I imagine that as it was in a line it could neither go forward or back
up.

The "Daily Mail" is a UK newspaper not noted for journalistic
accuracy.
It goes for sensationalism, aimed at people who want to be entertained
not informed.
If you want accurate reporting, go for "The Times" or "The
Telegraph".

The USA is often targeted for being whacky, incompetent or crazy.
Or ideally all three.

[tra...@optonline.net]

On Nov 16, 10:09 am, dennisga...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, November 16, 2012 9:15:39 AM UTC-5, Casey Jones wrote:

> >http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2233746/Midland-Texas-4-dead-...

>
> That story is so f*cked up you can't believe a word it says.

If you bothered to look, there are plenty of other sources
for the same story that all say basicly the same thing.
As do witnesses.

>
> If that train was moving at 60MPH, there is NOTHING the train crew could have done. It takes over a mile to stop a train at 60MPH.
>
> If the train was moving at 60MPH, that trailer would be a mile down the road, and twisted up like a pretzel. The death toll would be much higher, as in, everybody including the truck driver. From the pictures, looks like some chairs were knocked over.
>
> I bet it was moving at more like 6MPH, not 60.

You'd lose that bet. According to the NTSB, the train
was going 62 MPH at the time of the crash.

>
> If the lights and gates were working, what the hell was the truck doing crossing the tracks?

Apparently the same thing that happens in so many
other accidents. The driver made some very dumb
decisions. Exactly why may be determined later or
never. The lights and gates were apparently working,
some witnesses say they saw the gates go down on
top of the truck.

I only wonder why more people didn't jump off.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 04:58:10 -0800 (PST), "tra...@optonline.net"
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote:




>
>I only wonder why more people didn't jump off.

Some were injured vets in wheelchairs so jumping may not have been
much of an option.

[tra...@optonline.net]

On Nov 17, 8:09 am, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 04:58:10 -0800 (PST), "trad...@optonline.net"

>
> <trad...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> >I only wonder why more people didn't jump off.
>
> Some were injured vets in wheelchairs so jumping may not have been
> much of an option.

Yes, that thought crossed my mind too and it may have
been a factor with some of those injured. But so far,
from what I've seen in the media, it doesn't seem to
be the biggest factor. There have been reports about
the 4 killed that go over their war records, injuries, etc
and from what I've seen so far, none of them appeared
to have disabilities that would have prevented them from
jumping off. I guess you could be blocked in by a wheelchair from
someone else though....

I wonder from how far away the train going 62MPH would
have been visible? If it only became visible a short
distance away, that could explain a lot of it. Still, with
the signals and gates apparently working, it being
daylight, it's really a strange one.

[Home Guy]

"tra...@optonline.net" wrote:

> I wonder from how far away the train going 62MPH would
> have been visible? If it only became visible a short
> distance away, that could explain a lot of it. Still, with
> the signals and gates apparently working, it being
> daylight, it's really a strange one.

Midland Tx is town about 10 x 10 sq miles.

There appears to be a single rail line passing through it. This line is
dead straight through the town, as well as at least several miles
outside of town in either direction.

This incident happened at the rail crossing on S. Garfield St. There
are two roads that run parallel to Garfield on either side of the tracks
- W. Front street (Tx highway 20) to the north, and W. Industrial Ave to
the south. Those roads appear to be about 100 ft from the tracks, with
just a grass strip separating them (no buildings or other structures).

The visibility of any oncoming trains would have been excellent.

There is just a single rail line (not double or multiple tracks) so
there would have been no parked rail cars on other tracks to obscure the
view.

Here is a google satellite view of the crossing:

http://goo.gl/maps/yGGwm

Seeing how much space the rail corridor has, it's very believable that
the train was going 62 mph.

What probably happened is that the parade was going north-bound and got
stopped a the lights on Front street. The tractor-trailer was following
too closely and stopped on the tracks. The driver was too focused on
maintaining his spacing in the parade to notice the train. The trailer
could have been stopped over the tracks for as little as two minutes -
with the train 2 miles away and hence the driver wouldn't have even seen
the train at that distance when he got to the tracks.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 06:18:52 -0800 (PST), "tra...@optonline.net"
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote:



>
>I wonder from how far away the train going 62MPH would
>have been visible? If it only became visible a short
>distance away, that could explain a lot of it. Still, with
>the signals and gates apparently working, it being
>daylight, it's really a strange one.

You have to put this in context though, not being there, we don't know
the circumstances. I've seen parades that have fire trucks and rescue
equipment blasting horns and sirens. The gate signal would have been
lost, as would flashing lights. Train horn may have just been one of
many horns sounding.

More info needed.

[Home Guy]

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> More info needed.

I posted that info 10 minutes before your post.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 09:52:38 -0500, Home Guy <Ho...@Guy.com> wrote:



>
>What probably happened is that the parade was going north-bound and got
>stopped a the lights on Front street. The tractor-trailer was following
>too closely and stopped on the tracks. The driver was too focused on
>maintaining his spacing in the parade to notice the train.

One article I read said there was another truck stopped in front of
the one that was hit. Driver probably never looked back, or if he did,
too late.

[Home Guy]

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> > What probably happened is that the parade was going north-bound
> > and got stopped a the lights on Front street. The tractor-trailer
> > was following too closely and stopped on the tracks. The driver
> > was too focused on maintaining his spacing in the parade to notice
> > the train.
>
> One article I read said there was another truck stopped in front
> of the one that was hit. Driver probably never looked back, or if
> he did, too late.

Seeing the condition of the trailer after it was hit, it's clear that
the trailer *wasn't* sitting dead-center on the tracks. The trailer
looks basically intact, with many of the chairs still tied down.

I would guess that with the train about 1/2 mile away from the crossing,
it would have been at that point that the conductor put the brakes on.
This would have put the train about 30 seconds away from impact. Also
at the same time, the truck driver probably started to honk his horn and
start to edge the truck forward and probably drive over the curb trying
to get the trailer off the tracks. Other cars in front of him would
have started to get out of the way. I would guess that the trailer was
almost clear of the train, and that it was probably going 30 - 40 mph
when it hit the last 5 feet of trailer still in it's path, swinging the
trailer out of the way and bouncing everyone still on the trailer into
the air. Some of the dead were probably hit by the trailer as it swung
over them.

[Wes Groleau]

On 11-17-2012 10:02, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> the circumstances. I've seen parades that have fire trucks and rescue
> equipment blasting horns and sirens. The gate signal would have been
> lost, as would flashing lights. Train horn may have just been one of
> many horns sounding.

I can hear a train horn with all my windows closed and I live two or
three miles from the tracks. This accident occurred in the center of
twon. In either direction, there are many crossings. So the train's
horns would have been sounding frequently over the three minutes before
impact.

--
Wes Groleau

Words of the Wild Wes
http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.org/WWW

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 21:16:47 -0500, Wes Groleau
<Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote:

>On 11-17-2012 10:02, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> the circumstances. I've seen parades that have fire trucks and rescue
>> equipment blasting horns and sirens. The gate signal would have been
>> lost, as would flashing lights. Train horn may have just been one of
>> many horns sounding.
>
>I can hear a train horn with all my windows closed and I live two or
>three miles from the tracks. This accident occurred in the center of
>twon. In either direction, there are many crossings. So the train's
>horns would have been sounding frequently over the three minutes before
>impact.

I don't doubt the train horn was sounding, but if a couple of fire
trucks were blaring horns and sirens as part of the parade, the train
would not be hard or could easily be lost in the jumble of other
noises. Mentally, these folks were in parade fun mode.

[recycl...@gmail.com]

I’m guessing that the tractor trailer driver
didn’t have a commercial drivers license.
This is just a hunch on my part and
isn’t based on any evidence.
When they don’t release any information on him
the whole thing smells fishy to me.

[NotMe]

<denni...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4d88cef6-52ce-4e45...@googlegroups.com...

Train was traveling 68 MPH and the data recorder shows the breaks were hard
down for some distance.

The truck was reported by witnesses as being on the tracks when the warning
lights came on the and the gates came down.

FWIW the area of tack and the crossing has a long history of train/vehicle
impacts. This is the first with fatalities.

An official report will be several months out.

[tra...@optonline.net]

On Nov 17, 10:31 pm, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 21:16:47 -0500, Wes Groleau
>

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-midland-train-crash-warnings-20121117,0,1589904.story

"In a briefing Saturday, NTSB member Mark Rosekind listed what
happened in the moments before the accident, a meticulous breakdown of
the events leading to four deaths and 16 injuries:

Twenty-one seconds before the crash, the crossing's southbound traffic
signal turned green.

At 20 seconds, the crossing's warning lights began to flash and the
bells sounded. At the same time, the lead parade float's trailer
crossed the southern edge of the track's rail and made it through.

Thirteen seconds before impact, the crossing arms began to come down.

One second later, the trailer carrying the veterans began crossing the
track, its front tires rolling over the northern edge of the rail.

Three seconds later, the train engineer blasted his horn, stretching
out the blare for four seconds.

Seven seconds before impact, one of the crossing arms crashed into a
flagpole on the parade float.

Two seconds later, the engineer hit the emergency brakes.

At 4:36 p.m., the 80-car train slammed into the trailer at 62 mph. It
took more than a minute to come to a complete halt."


If that's correct, then it was 8 seconds after the warning
lights and bells went off and 1 second after the gate had
started to go down that the driver STARTED to cross
the tracks. Which fits with witnesses who said they
saw the gates going down on top of the float.

But one striking thing here is that 20 secs is all the time
there was from the lights and bells at the crossing first
going off to impact. Apparently that is the minimum
allowed? Seems mighty short to me..... I don't think
I've ever been at a grade crossing where the train came
by within 20 secs of the lights activating. Usually you
sit there, waiting, waiting......

[Stormin Mormon]

Professional driver might not made that
fatal negligence?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

<recycl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:978c3cc9-cd04-41ff...@googlegroups.com...

[Home Guy]

"tra...@optonline.net" wrote:

> But one striking thing here is that 20 secs is all the time
> there was from the lights and bells at the crossing first
> going off to impact. Apparently that is the minimum
> allowed? Seems mighty short to me..... I don't think
> I've ever been at a grade crossing where the train came
> by within 20 secs of the lights activating. Usually you
> sit there, waiting, waiting......

=============
With nearly 15,000 grade crossings throughout the state, Texas has the
largest number of railroad-vehicle intersections in the country.
Federal regulations already require warning lights and sounds to
activate at least 20 seconds before a train rolls through them.
Depending on the topography and normal speed of passing trains, that
interval can stretch to 40 seconds of more. Gates are required to swing
down completely at least five seconds before a train enters a crossing.

Typically, engineers are required to blow a train's whistle�two long
blasts followed by a short one�at least a quarter of a mile before
reaching a grade crossing. The signals must be repeated until the lead
locomotive enters the crossing. But the stretch of track where the
accident occurred in Midland is designated a "quiet zone," according to
Mark Rosekind, the NTSB member on site, meaning there are restrictions
on horn blowing.

Mr. Rosekind said the speed limit was 70 miles per hour along the
stretch of track, but he didn't say whether trains routinely slow down
at grade crossings. Additional issues expected to be examined by the
board's experts include reports of a power outage during part of
Thursday, and whether that had any bearing on the accident.

Speed is not as big a factor in train-vehicle collisions as might be
expected, according to Federal Railroad Administration data. That's
because a train moving at "almost any reasonable operating speed" can't
stop in time to avoid hitting an object on the tracks, according to
agency's data. In more than 37% of train-motor vehicle collisions at
public crossings, the train is moving less than 20 miles an hour.
=============

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324595904578123561503417342.html

[Kurt Ullman]

In article <k89gef$6d8$1...@dont-email.me>,

Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote:

> On 11-17-2012 10:02, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > the circumstances. I've seen parades that have fire trucks and rescue
> > equipment blasting horns and sirens. The gate signal would have been
> > lost, as would flashing lights. Train horn may have just been one of
> > many horns sounding.
>
> I can hear a train horn with all my windows closed and I live two or
> three miles from the tracks. This accident occurred in the center of
> twon. In either direction, there are many crossings. So the train's
> horns would have been sounding frequently over the three minutes before
> impact.

I lived in a town that had some of the busiest crossing in the Norfolk
and Western (at the time) system. Any parade or other similar thing was
well coordinated with N&W;s dispatchers from the get go. Heck, even when
main street was shut down for a street fair or some such, the
dispatchers knew about and slowed the trains down even further so
stragglers were less likely to get run over. Wonder why that did not
happen.
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the bastards."-- Claire Wolfe

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 04:51:00 -0800 (PST), "tra...@optonline.net"

>Twenty-one seconds before the crash, the crossing's southbound traffic
>signal turned green.
>
>At 20 seconds, the crossing's warning lights began to flash and the
>bells sounded. At the same time, the lead parade float's trailer
>crossed the southern edge of the track's rail and made it through.
>
>Thirteen seconds before impact, the crossing arms began to come down.
>
>One second later, the trailer carrying the veterans began crossing the
>track, its front tires rolling over the northern edge of the rail.
>
>Three seconds later, the train engineer blasted his horn, stretching
>out the blare for four seconds.
>
>Seven seconds before impact, one of the crossing arms crashed into a
>flagpole on the parade float.
>
>Two seconds later, the engineer hit the emergency brakes.
>
>At 4:36 p.m., the 80-car train slammed into the trailer at 62 mph. It
>took more than a minute to come to a complete halt."
>
>
>If that's correct, then it was 8 seconds after the warning
>lights and bells went off and 1 second after the gate had
>started to go down that the driver STARTED to cross
>the tracks. Which fits with witnesses who said they
>saw the gates going down on top of the float.

Wow, that sounds like a case of operator error or just plain
negligence. 8 seconds should be enough time to see the lights.