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Americans brace for next foreclosure wave
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Home Guy
Apr 4, 2012, 6:42:03 PM4/4/12
to
Ever notice that you never see headlines like "Canadians brace for next
forclosure wave" ???
Now - who's going to be the first bone-head to full-quote the entire
text of this post just to add one line?
=========================================
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/04/us-foreclosure-idUSBRE83319E20120404
Americans brace for next foreclosure wave
Wed Apr 4, 2012 6:22pm EDT
(Reuters) - Half a decade into the deepest U.S. housing crisis since the
1930s, many Americans are hoping the crisis is finally nearing its end.
House sales are picking up across most of the country, the plunge in
prices is slowing and attempts by lenders to claim back properties from
struggling borrowers dropped by more than a third in 2011, hitting a
four-year low.
But a painful part two of the slump looks set to unfold: Many more U.S.
homeowners face the prospect of losing their homes this year as banks
pick up the pace of foreclosures.
"We are right back where we were two years ago. I would put money on
2012 being a bigger year for foreclosures than 2010," said Mark Seifert,
executive director of Empowering & Strengthening Ohio's People (ESOP), a
counseling group with 10 offices in Ohio.
"Last year was an anomaly, and not in a good way," he said.
In 2011, the "robo-signing" scandal, in which foreclosure documents were
signed without properly reviewing individual cases, prompted banks to
hold back on new foreclosures pending a settlement.
Five major banks eventually struck that settlement with 49 U.S. states
in February. Signs are growing the pace of foreclosures is picking up
again, something housing experts predict will again weigh on home prices
before any sustained recovery can occur.
Mortgage servicing provider Lender Processing Services reported in early
March that U.S. foreclosure starts jumped 28 percent in January.
More conclusive national data is not yet available. But watchdog group,
4closurefraud.org which helped uncover the "robo-signing" scandal, says
it has turned up evidence of a large rise in new foreclosures between
March 1 and 24 by three big banks in Palm Beach County in Florida, one
of the states hit hardest by the housing crash
Although foreclosure starts were 50 percent or more lower than for the
same period in 2010, those begun by Deutsche Bank were up 47 percent
from 2011. Those of Wells Fargo's rose 68 percent and Bank of America's,
including BAC Home Loans Servicing, jumped nearly seven-fold -- 251
starts versus 37 in the same period in 2011. Bank of America said it
does not comment on data provided by other sources. Wells Fargo and
Deutsche Bank did not comment.
Housing experts say localized warning signs of a new wave of foreclosure
are likely to be replicated across much of the United States.
Online foreclosure marketplace RealtyTrac estimated that while
foreclosures dropped slightly nationwide in February from January and
from February 2011, they rose in 21 states and jumped sharply in cities
like Tampa (64 percent), Chicago (43 percent) and Miami (53 percent).
RealtyTrac CEO Brandon Moore said the "numbers point to a gradually
rising foreclosure tide as some of the barriers that have been holding
back foreclosures are removed."
One big difference to the early years of the housing crisis, which was
dominated by Americans saddled with the most toxic subprime products --
with high interest rates where banks asked for no money down or no proof
of income -- is that today it's mostly Americans with ordinary mortgages
whose ability to meet payment have been hit by the hard economic times.
"The subprime stuff is long gone," said Michael Redman, founder of
4closurefraud.org. "Now the folks being affected are hardworking,
everyday Americans struggling because of the economy."
"HARD TO CATCH UP"
Until December 2010, Daniel Burns, 52, had spent his working life in the
trucking industry as a long-haul driver and manager. When daily loads at
the small family business where he worked tailed off, he lost his job.
Unable to cover his mortgage, Burns received a grant from a government
fund using money repaid from the 2008 bank bailout. That grant is due to
expire in early 2013 and Burns is holding out on hopeful comments from
his former employer that he might get his job back if the economy
recovers.
"If things don't pick up, I will be out on the street," he said, staring
from his living room window at two abandoned houses over the road in the
middle-class Cleveland suburb of Garfield Heights, the noise of traffic
from a nearby Interstate highway filling the street.
Underscoring the uncertainty of his situation, Burns' cell phone rings
and a pre-recorded message announces that his unemployment benefits are
due to be cut off in April.
A bit further up the shore of Lake Erie, Cristal Fell, who works night
shifts entering data for a trucking company in Toledo, has fallen behind
on her mortgage a second time because her ex-husband lost his job and
her overtime was cut.
"Once you get behind it's so hard to catch up," she said.
Fell, a mother of four, hopes the economy will gather enough speed to
help her avoid any risk of losing her home. Her ex-husband has found a
new job and she is getting more overtime, so she hopes she can catch up
on her mortgage by the fall.
Burns and Fell are the new face of the U.S. housing crisis: Middle
class, suburban or rural with a conventional 30-year fixed mortgage at a
reasonable interest rate, but unemployed or underemployed. Although the
national unemployment rate has fallen to 8.3 percent from its peak of 10
percent in October 2009, nearly 13 million Americans remain jobless,
meaning many are struggling to keep up with their mortgage payments.
Real estate company Zillow Inc says more than one in four American
homeowners were "under water" or owed more than their homes were worth
in the fourth quarter of 2011. The crisis has wiped out some $7 trillion
in U.S. household wealth.
"We're seeing more people coming through who have good loans with
reasonable interest rates," said Ed Jacob, executive director of
non-profit lender Neighborhood Housing Services of Chicago Inc, which
provides foreclosure counseling. "But in many households only one person
works now instead of two, or they had their hours cut."
"The answer to the housing crisis now is job creation."
EARLY SIGNS OF UPTICK?
Zillow expects the resurgence in foreclosures this year, combined with
excess inventory of unsold, bank-owned homes will contribute to a 3.7
percent national decline in prices before the market hits bottom in 2013
and stays there until 2016.
"The hangover from this crisis will far outlast the party of the boom
years," said Zillow chief economist Stan Humphries.
Getting through the remaining foreclosures and dealing with the
resulting flood of homes on the market in the wake of the bank
settlement is a necessary part of the healing process for the U.S.
housing market, he added.
According to leading broker dealer Amherst Securities, some 9.5 million
homes are still at risk of default and in February it said it expected
to see the uptick in foreclosures start to hit in March and April.
There is other evidence that many of the foreclosures that did not
happen in 2011 will happen this year.
A January report by the Neighborhood Economic Development Advocacy
Project in New York found that in the first half of 2011 the number of
90-day pre-foreclosure notices in New York City outnumbered court
foreclosure actions by a ratio of 14 to one, indicating that while
proceedings were initiated against many homeowners, they were left
incomplete.
"Now the banks have a settlement, foreclosure numbers for 2012 are going
to be high," said NEDAP co-director Josh Zinner.
A recent survey by the California Reinvestment Coalition, an umbrella
group of nearly 300 non-profit groups in the state, of member agencies
found 75 percent of respondents expected increased demand for their
foreclosure prevention services in 2012 but more than a third had to
scale back services because of funding cuts.
"Funding is a major concern given what our members expect for this
year," said associate director Kevin Stein.
All this has non-profits intensifying calls for the Federal Housing
Finance Agency to drop its opposition to allowing the government-backed
mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac it regulates to reduce
principal for underwater homeowners.
Principal reduction involves reducing the amount borrowers owe in order
to make a loan modification affordable for struggling homeowners.
Republicans and the FHFA oppose principal reduction because of the risk
of "moral hazard"- that homeowners who do not need help will seek to
abuse largesse and have their mortgages reduced too.
ESOP in Ohio engages in "hits" on Chase branches -- they say Chase is
the least accommodating major bank when it comes to working with
struggling homeowners -- where they try to hand letters to bank mangers
calling on chief executive Jamie Dimon to lobby FHFA head Edward DeMarco
for principal reductions. A Chase spokeswoman said the bank has made
"extensive efforts" to work with homeowners, helping 775,000 borrowers
stay in their homes since early 2009, avoiding foreclosure "more than
twice as often as we have had to foreclose." Housing groups like ESOP
maintain, as they have throughout the housing crisis, that unless the
FHFA embraces widespread principal reduction, many more under water
borrowers face losing their homes.
"Until banks engage in meaningful principal reduction as a matter of
course," ESOP's Seifert said after a recent protest at a Chase branch in
Cleveland, "this crisis will not end."
forclosure wave" ???
Now - who's going to be the first bone-head to full-quote the entire
text of this post just to add one line?
=========================================
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/04/us-foreclosure-idUSBRE83319E20120404
Americans brace for next foreclosure wave
Wed Apr 4, 2012 6:22pm EDT
(Reuters) - Half a decade into the deepest U.S. housing crisis since the
1930s, many Americans are hoping the crisis is finally nearing its end.
House sales are picking up across most of the country, the plunge in
prices is slowing and attempts by lenders to claim back properties from
struggling borrowers dropped by more than a third in 2011, hitting a
four-year low.
But a painful part two of the slump looks set to unfold: Many more U.S.
homeowners face the prospect of losing their homes this year as banks
pick up the pace of foreclosures.
"We are right back where we were two years ago. I would put money on
2012 being a bigger year for foreclosures than 2010," said Mark Seifert,
executive director of Empowering & Strengthening Ohio's People (ESOP), a
counseling group with 10 offices in Ohio.
"Last year was an anomaly, and not in a good way," he said.
In 2011, the "robo-signing" scandal, in which foreclosure documents were
signed without properly reviewing individual cases, prompted banks to
hold back on new foreclosures pending a settlement.
Five major banks eventually struck that settlement with 49 U.S. states
in February. Signs are growing the pace of foreclosures is picking up
again, something housing experts predict will again weigh on home prices
before any sustained recovery can occur.
Mortgage servicing provider Lender Processing Services reported in early
March that U.S. foreclosure starts jumped 28 percent in January.
More conclusive national data is not yet available. But watchdog group,
4closurefraud.org which helped uncover the "robo-signing" scandal, says
it has turned up evidence of a large rise in new foreclosures between
March 1 and 24 by three big banks in Palm Beach County in Florida, one
of the states hit hardest by the housing crash
Although foreclosure starts were 50 percent or more lower than for the
same period in 2010, those begun by Deutsche Bank were up 47 percent
from 2011. Those of Wells Fargo's rose 68 percent and Bank of America's,
including BAC Home Loans Servicing, jumped nearly seven-fold -- 251
starts versus 37 in the same period in 2011. Bank of America said it
does not comment on data provided by other sources. Wells Fargo and
Deutsche Bank did not comment.
Housing experts say localized warning signs of a new wave of foreclosure
are likely to be replicated across much of the United States.
Online foreclosure marketplace RealtyTrac estimated that while
foreclosures dropped slightly nationwide in February from January and
from February 2011, they rose in 21 states and jumped sharply in cities
like Tampa (64 percent), Chicago (43 percent) and Miami (53 percent).
RealtyTrac CEO Brandon Moore said the "numbers point to a gradually
rising foreclosure tide as some of the barriers that have been holding
back foreclosures are removed."
One big difference to the early years of the housing crisis, which was
dominated by Americans saddled with the most toxic subprime products --
with high interest rates where banks asked for no money down or no proof
of income -- is that today it's mostly Americans with ordinary mortgages
whose ability to meet payment have been hit by the hard economic times.
"The subprime stuff is long gone," said Michael Redman, founder of
4closurefraud.org. "Now the folks being affected are hardworking,
everyday Americans struggling because of the economy."
"HARD TO CATCH UP"
Until December 2010, Daniel Burns, 52, had spent his working life in the
trucking industry as a long-haul driver and manager. When daily loads at
the small family business where he worked tailed off, he lost his job.
Unable to cover his mortgage, Burns received a grant from a government
fund using money repaid from the 2008 bank bailout. That grant is due to
expire in early 2013 and Burns is holding out on hopeful comments from
his former employer that he might get his job back if the economy
recovers.
"If things don't pick up, I will be out on the street," he said, staring
from his living room window at two abandoned houses over the road in the
middle-class Cleveland suburb of Garfield Heights, the noise of traffic
from a nearby Interstate highway filling the street.
Underscoring the uncertainty of his situation, Burns' cell phone rings
and a pre-recorded message announces that his unemployment benefits are
due to be cut off in April.
A bit further up the shore of Lake Erie, Cristal Fell, who works night
shifts entering data for a trucking company in Toledo, has fallen behind
on her mortgage a second time because her ex-husband lost his job and
her overtime was cut.
"Once you get behind it's so hard to catch up," she said.
Fell, a mother of four, hopes the economy will gather enough speed to
help her avoid any risk of losing her home. Her ex-husband has found a
new job and she is getting more overtime, so she hopes she can catch up
on her mortgage by the fall.
Burns and Fell are the new face of the U.S. housing crisis: Middle
class, suburban or rural with a conventional 30-year fixed mortgage at a
reasonable interest rate, but unemployed or underemployed. Although the
national unemployment rate has fallen to 8.3 percent from its peak of 10
percent in October 2009, nearly 13 million Americans remain jobless,
meaning many are struggling to keep up with their mortgage payments.
Real estate company Zillow Inc says more than one in four American
homeowners were "under water" or owed more than their homes were worth
in the fourth quarter of 2011. The crisis has wiped out some $7 trillion
in U.S. household wealth.
"We're seeing more people coming through who have good loans with
reasonable interest rates," said Ed Jacob, executive director of
non-profit lender Neighborhood Housing Services of Chicago Inc, which
provides foreclosure counseling. "But in many households only one person
works now instead of two, or they had their hours cut."
"The answer to the housing crisis now is job creation."
EARLY SIGNS OF UPTICK?
Zillow expects the resurgence in foreclosures this year, combined with
excess inventory of unsold, bank-owned homes will contribute to a 3.7
percent national decline in prices before the market hits bottom in 2013
and stays there until 2016.
"The hangover from this crisis will far outlast the party of the boom
years," said Zillow chief economist Stan Humphries.
Getting through the remaining foreclosures and dealing with the
resulting flood of homes on the market in the wake of the bank
settlement is a necessary part of the healing process for the U.S.
housing market, he added.
According to leading broker dealer Amherst Securities, some 9.5 million
homes are still at risk of default and in February it said it expected
to see the uptick in foreclosures start to hit in March and April.
There is other evidence that many of the foreclosures that did not
happen in 2011 will happen this year.
A January report by the Neighborhood Economic Development Advocacy
Project in New York found that in the first half of 2011 the number of
90-day pre-foreclosure notices in New York City outnumbered court
foreclosure actions by a ratio of 14 to one, indicating that while
proceedings were initiated against many homeowners, they were left
incomplete.
"Now the banks have a settlement, foreclosure numbers for 2012 are going
to be high," said NEDAP co-director Josh Zinner.
A recent survey by the California Reinvestment Coalition, an umbrella
group of nearly 300 non-profit groups in the state, of member agencies
found 75 percent of respondents expected increased demand for their
foreclosure prevention services in 2012 but more than a third had to
scale back services because of funding cuts.
"Funding is a major concern given what our members expect for this
year," said associate director Kevin Stein.
All this has non-profits intensifying calls for the Federal Housing
Finance Agency to drop its opposition to allowing the government-backed
mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac it regulates to reduce
principal for underwater homeowners.
Principal reduction involves reducing the amount borrowers owe in order
to make a loan modification affordable for struggling homeowners.
Republicans and the FHFA oppose principal reduction because of the risk
of "moral hazard"- that homeowners who do not need help will seek to
abuse largesse and have their mortgages reduced too.
ESOP in Ohio engages in "hits" on Chase branches -- they say Chase is
the least accommodating major bank when it comes to working with
struggling homeowners -- where they try to hand letters to bank mangers
calling on chief executive Jamie Dimon to lobby FHFA head Edward DeMarco
for principal reductions. A Chase spokeswoman said the bank has made
"extensive efforts" to work with homeowners, helping 775,000 borrowers
stay in their homes since early 2009, avoiding foreclosure "more than
twice as often as we have had to foreclose." Housing groups like ESOP
maintain, as they have throughout the housing crisis, that unless the
FHFA embraces widespread principal reduction, many more under water
borrowers face losing their homes.
"Until banks engage in meaningful principal reduction as a matter of
course," ESOP's Seifert said after a recent protest at a Chase branch in
Cleveland, "this crisis will not end."
Duesenberg
Apr 4, 2012, 9:33:53 PM4/4/12
to
On 4/4/2012 6:42 PM, Home Guy wrote:
> Ever notice that you never see headlines like "Canadians brace for next
> forclosure wave" ???
>
> Now - who's going to be the first bone-head to full-quote the entire
> text of this post just to add one line?
>
> =========================================
>
The OECD says Canada has the second highest rate of overvaluation of
> Ever notice that you never see headlines like "Canadians brace for next
> forclosure wave" ???
>
> Now - who's going to be the first bone-head to full-quote the entire
> text of this post just to add one line?
>
> =========================================
>
homes in the developed world.... And that the USA is undervalued at 9%
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-most-overpriced-housing-markets-in-the-developed-world-2012-2#
Duesenberg
Apr 4, 2012, 9:40:17 PM4/4/12
to
On 4/4/2012 6:42 PM, Home Guy wrote:
> Ever notice that you never see headlines like "Canadians brace for next
> forclosure wave" ???
>
> Now - who's going to be the first bone-head to full-quote the entire
> text of this post just to add one line?
>
> =========================================
>
Forgot to ass this link from my clipboard...
> forclosure wave" ???
>
> Now - who's going to be the first bone-head to full-quote the entire
> text of this post just to add one line?
>
> =========================================
>
The link that says Canada's housing market is more overvalued than the
USA's was at it's peak....
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2011/11/25/canada-housing-market-bubble-overvalued-economist_n_1113031.html
Duesenberg
Apr 4, 2012, 9:42:18 PM4/4/12
to
>
> Forgot to ass this link from my clipboard...
Tony Hwang
Apr 4, 2012, 9:53:58 PM4/4/12
to
No wonder Canadian government is tightening the regs. on housing market.
Mortgage and financing. Latest survey shows about 60% of people said
they can withstand housing market crash. Also the risk level is
different between regions. Over all, it won't be as BAD as U.S. if and
when worst comes.
I don't care, all my 3 properties are paid for long ago.(House in the
suburb, condo in down town, cabin in the mountain)
gonjah
Apr 4, 2012, 10:12:59 PM4/4/12
to
prices were at their highest nationwide and the prices here have only
gone up. Not near as fast as they were but still climbing. My house has
appreciated about 10% in 7 years.
Sorry to all that lost money. I can imagine how devastating it must be.
I wouldn't wish that even on a Canadian. ;)
Home Guy
Apr 4, 2012, 10:21:35 PM4/4/12
to
Duesenberg wrote:
> > Ever notice that you never see headlines like "Canadians brace
> > for next forclosure wave" ???
>
> > Ever notice that you never see headlines like "Canadians brace
> > for next forclosure wave" ???
>
> The link that says Canada's housing market is more overvalued than
> the USA's was at it's peak....
Studies like that always end up looking primarily at Vancouver - which
> the USA's was at it's peak....
is way overvalued but because we don't have stupid "no money down"
mortgages you're going to almost always have affluent people buying
those homes so there's not as much risk for the banks.
I bought my house in Q3 1999 for $182k (and paid off my $132k mortgage
by 2004). If I were to sell it today (13 years later) I could get $300k
for it within a week, and possibly $325k if I held out for 3 months.
The same house in Vancouver would probably sell for $1.5 million.
But still - there's no forclosure waves happening in Canada.
gonjah
Apr 4, 2012, 10:28:36 PM4/4/12
to
But don't be surprised if it hits. I was lucky and played the real
estate game. I could have easily lost a small fortune. I still may.
Don't get too cocky. We should all use common sense from here on out. If
it looks too good to be true it probably is.
john abraham
Apr 5, 2012, 1:17:26 AM4/5/12
to
Ever notice that you never see headlines like "Canadians brace for
next forclosure wave" ??? Now - who's going to be the first bone-head
to full-quote the entire text of this post just to add one line?
:http//123maza.com/46/flower246/
to full-quote the entire text of this post just to add one line?
harry
Apr 5, 2012, 3:25:30 AM4/5/12
to
On Apr 4, 11:42 pm, Home Guy <H...@Guy.com> wrote:
> Ever notice that you never see headlines like "Canadians brace for next
> forclosure wave" ???
>
> Now - who's going to be the first bone-head to full-quote the entire
> text of this post just to add one line?
>
> =========================================
>
> http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/04/us-foreclosure-idUSBRE83319...
> Ever notice that you never see headlines like "Canadians brace for next
> forclosure wave" ???
>
> Now - who's going to be the first bone-head to full-quote the entire
> text of this post just to add one line?
>
> =========================================
>
Americans are in a slave society. A modern feudalism where the many
work to enrich the few. A lot are not well educated and believe their
government propaganda. It's getting worse too.
What they need is a proper people's revolution.
Until they have this revolution, the poverty will grow.
A few politicians and bankers need to be hung from lamp posts.
harry
Apr 5, 2012, 3:26:20 AM4/5/12
to
Compared with what? Stupid statistic.
harry
Apr 5, 2012, 3:35:51 AM4/5/12
to
> "Until banks engage in meaningful principal reduction as a matter of
> course," ESOP's Seifert said after a recent protest at a Chase branch in
> Cleveland, "this crisis will not end."
> course," ESOP's Seifert said after a recent protest at a Chase branch in
> Cleveland, "this crisis will not end."
harry
Apr 5, 2012, 3:29:42 AM4/5/12
to
That is the most stupid argument I have yet seen. Completely different
economies and situations.
harry
Apr 5, 2012, 3:30:58 AM4/5/12
to
On Apr 5, 2:53 am, Tony Hwang <drago...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> Duesenberg wrote:
> > On 4/4/2012 6:42 PM, Home Guy wrote:
> >> Ever notice that you never see headlines like "Canadians brace for next
> >> forclosure wave" ???
>
> >> Now - who's going to be the first bone-head to full-quote the entire
> >> text of this post just to add one line?
>
> >> =========================================
>
> > The OECD says Canada has the second highest rate of overvaluation of
> > homes in the developed world.... And that the USA is undervalued at 9%
>
> >http://www.businessinsider.com/the-most-overpriced-housing-markets-in...
> Duesenberg wrote:
> > On 4/4/2012 6:42 PM, Home Guy wrote:
> >> Ever notice that you never see headlines like "Canadians brace for next
> >> forclosure wave" ???
>
> >> Now - who's going to be the first bone-head to full-quote the entire
> >> text of this post just to add one line?
>
> >> =========================================
>
> > The OECD says Canada has the second highest rate of overvaluation of
> > homes in the developed world.... And that the USA is undervalued at 9%
>
>
> Hi,
> No wonder Canadian government is tightening the regs. on housing market.
> Mortgage and financing. Latest survey shows about 60% of people said
> they can withstand housing market crash. Also the risk level is
> different between regions. Over all, it won't be as BAD as U.S. if and
> when worst comes.
> I don't care, all my 3 properties are paid for long ago.(House in the
> suburb, condo in down town, cabin in the mountain)- Hide quoted text -
> Hi,
> No wonder Canadian government is tightening the regs. on housing market.
> Mortgage and financing. Latest survey shows about 60% of people said
> they can withstand housing market crash. Also the risk level is
> different between regions. Over all, it won't be as BAD as U.S. if and
> when worst comes.
> I don't care, all my 3 properties are paid for long ago.(House in the
>
> - Show quoted text -
What you need to fear is the coming revolution.
DD_BobK
Apr 5, 2012, 5:08:26 AM4/5/12
to
On Apr 4, 3:42 pm, Home Guy <H...@Guy.com> wrote:
> Ever notice that you never see headlines like "Canadians brace for next
> forclosure wave" ???
>
> Now - who's going to be the first bone-head to full-quote the entire
> text of this post just to add one line?
>
>SNIP<
> Ever notice that you never see headlines like "Canadians brace for next
> forclosure wave" ???
>
> Now - who's going to be the first bone-head to full-quote the entire
> text of this post just to add one line?
>
HG-
Making more friends in case you have a home repair question?
cheers
Bob
DD_BobK
Apr 5, 2012, 5:16:24 AM4/5/12
to
1.8x.
Where are you going to live? In your RV?
Any other house you might want to buy went up too.
If you have more than one house; one to live in, one to rent & then
sell...... you'd have something.
If any property you own can be sold for more than 20x yearly rent.....
it's probably over priced & you'd be wise to sell.
Also eval it based on replacement cost per sq ft.
Stormin Mormon
Apr 5, 2012, 7:22:49 AM4/5/12
to
URL broken. Space added, courtesy.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"john abraham" <kavs...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3587fa8a-1804-4154...@vy9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"john abraham" <kavs...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3587fa8a-1804-4154...@vy9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...
Stormin Mormon
Apr 5, 2012, 7:23:45 AM4/5/12
to
Pass the link out of your ass? Work out same.
"Duesenberg" <a...@123.com> wrote in message
news:jlit9k$lnh$2...@dont-email.me...
"Duesenberg" <a...@123.com> wrote in message
news:jlit9k$lnh$2...@dont-email.me...
Duesenberg
Apr 5, 2012, 8:02:45 AM4/5/12
to
On 4/5/2012 7:23 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
> Pass the link out of your ass? Work out same.
>
>
Depends if it floats or sinks....
> Pass the link out of your ass? Work out same.
>
>
Home Guy
Apr 5, 2012, 8:31:18 AM4/5/12
to
> > Now - who's going to be the first bone-head to full-quote the
> > entire text of this post just to add one line?
The first bone-head was: harry
> > entire text of this post just to add one line?
And as usual for bone-heads posting through google-groups: Google
removes "OT:" when it appears in the subject line (I put it back).
Home Guy
Apr 5, 2012, 8:47:04 AM4/5/12
to
DD_BobK wrote:
> > But still - there's no forclosure waves happening in Canada.
>
> So what? The price of your house went up and now you can sell
> it for 1.8x.
>
> Where are you going to live? In your RV?
That wasn't my point. My point was to counter the argument made by
> > But still - there's no forclosure waves happening in Canada.
>
> So what? The price of your house went up and now you can sell
> it for 1.8x.
>
> Where are you going to live? In your RV?
Duesenberg that home prices in Canada are as inflated now as they were
in the US a few years ago before the market collaped.
I countered the argument by pointing out that claims of over-valuation
of Canadian homes are largely based on what's happening in one or two
a-typical cities (Vancouver and a handful of neighborhoods in Toronto
and Montreal) and that my home (with the price details I gave) is more
typical of the residential house market in Canada.
Hell Toupee
Apr 5, 2012, 11:39:37 AM4/5/12
to
On 4/5/2012 2:26 AM, harry wrote:
>> The OECD says Canada has the second highest rate of overvaluation of
>> homes in the developed world.... And that the USA is undervalued at 9%
>>
>> http://www.businessinsider.com/the-most-overpriced-housing-markets-in...
>
> Compared with what? Stupid statistic.
They use the classic measures to calculate housing value and
>> The OECD says Canada has the second highest rate of overvaluation of
>> homes in the developed world.... And that the USA is undervalued at 9%
>>
>> http://www.businessinsider.com/the-most-overpriced-housing-markets-in...
>
> Compared with what? Stupid statistic.
affordability: compare the price paid/rental value and price
paid/average annual income. For investors, the standard rule of thumb
for buying rental property is to pay no more for it than what you'll
earn from it as 10-12 year's annual rental income. For homeowners, the
standard rule of thumb for most locations is to pay no more than 2.5-3
times your annual income. So, to gauge what should be the average home
value in any given area, look at the average cost to rent and the
average annual income. Compare that to the average value of a property
and you'll get a good idea as to whether it is over- or under-valued.
Problem is, the larger the area you look at using these factors, the
more variation and thus the less reliable your data will be. It works
very well on a neigborhood/city basis, but as has already been
mentioned with regards to Canada, prices may be much higher than
average in one city or province, but not show that trend (or as great
a trend) nationwide. And that 2.5-3 x income measure used for
calculating home affordability just doesn't work in much of
California, where housing demand has driven prices in choice locations
so high that a 10x income standard has become commonplace. (Even so,
that seems insanely risky, imo.)
Anyhow, anyone who's lived through a prior housing bubble could spot
this past one forming, and a whole lot of people observed, commented,
and worried about it. Corrupt mortgage lenders and banks were willing
to loan people insane amounts of money, but that didn't mean those
people would ever be able to repay it -- and these finance people
_knew_ that. But they collected their commissions on the loans, then
swiftly sold the loans off, thus maximizing their profits and
minimizing their exposure. Developers worked hand in hand with
mortgage lenders and real estate agents to run house flipping schemes
with straw buyers, in order to sell inventory they'd already built and
collect enough money to start yet another development. The US built an
entire generation's worth of housing stock in less than six years. In
large parts of the country there is such an inventory surplus as a
result, home prices will continue to be depressed for a good many years.
denni...@gmail.com
Apr 5, 2012, 4:33:43 PM4/5/12
to
On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 6:42:03 PM UTC-4, Home Guy wrote:
> Ever notice that you never see headlines like "Canadians brace for next
> forclosure wave" ???
Well, you see, Canada actually has regulations in place that actually PROTECT the people. In the USA, the regulations are written so that certain elements can legally rob everyone else blind.
> Ever notice that you never see headlines like "Canadians brace for next
> forclosure wave" ???
Stormin Mormon
Apr 5, 2012, 4:50:41 PM4/5/12
to
You're socialist, we used to be free market.
<denni...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:13613309.0.13336
<denni...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:13613309.0.13336
Percival P. Cassidy
Apr 5, 2012, 5:50:10 PM4/5/12
to
On 04/05/12 04:33 pm, denni...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Ever notice that you never see headlines like "Canadians brace for next
>> foreclosure wave" ???
>> Ever notice that you never see headlines like "Canadians brace for next
> Well, you see, Canada actually has regulations in place that actually PROTECT the people. In the USA, the regulations are written so that certain elements can legally rob everyone else blind.
However, somebody said that Texas actually did better than some of the
other US states because it had laws that were called "personal property
protection laws" -- pretty much the same as "consumer protection laws"
in other places, but they couldn't call them that because the latter are
"socialist."
Perce
Home Guy
Apr 5, 2012, 6:00:49 PM4/5/12
to
"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:
> However, somebody said that Texas actually did better than some
> of the other US states because it had laws that were called
> "personal property protection laws" --
The states that suffered the worst collapse in terms of forclosures and
> However, somebody said that Texas actually did better than some
> of the other US states because it had laws that were called
> "personal property protection laws" --
value declines were the ones that were over-built in terms of
speculation (second homes, vacation homes, etc). This included Florida
and Nevada.
I don't think Texas saw much in terms of over-supply of homes because
it's not a desirable place to have a second home for, say, someone
living up north or east coast.
I think that Florida and Nevada also don't have state income taxes,
which can also influence people's decisions on where they want to live
or have a second home.
gonjah
Apr 5, 2012, 6:12:12 PM4/5/12
to
average economy. New home construction came to a stand still. It's
picking up a little. Nothing to get excited about. I'm not sure about
the CPLs. Parts of TX suffered along with the rest of the country,
HeyBub
Apr 5, 2012, 7:50:06 PM4/5/12
to
Texas law, for example, prohibits a home mortgage for more than 80% of the
appraised value. Many homeowners in my state were hit along with the rest of
the country, but we didn't have anywhere near the percentage of defaults as
were seen elsewhere.
HeyBub
Apr 5, 2012, 8:00:21 PM4/5/12
to
Home Guy wrote:
> "Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:
>
>> However, somebody said that Texas actually did better than some
>> of the other US states because it had laws that were called
>> "personal property protection laws" --
>
> The states that suffered the worst collapse in terms of forclosures
> and value declines were the ones that were over-built in terms of
> speculation (second homes, vacation homes, etc). This included
> Florida and Nevada.
>
> I don't think Texas saw much in terms of over-supply of homes because
> it's not a desirable place to have a second home for, say, someone
> living up north or east coast.
Shows what you know. Why we are just now recovering from our preimer social
> "Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:
>
>> However, somebody said that Texas actually did better than some
>> of the other US states because it had laws that were called
>> "personal property protection laws" --
>
> The states that suffered the worst collapse in terms of forclosures
> and value declines were the ones that were over-built in terms of
> speculation (second homes, vacation homes, etc). This included
> Florida and Nevada.
>
> I don't think Texas saw much in terms of over-supply of homes because
> it's not a desirable place to have a second home for, say, someone
> living up north or east coast.
event - The Harris Count Livestock Show and Rodeo. The attendance at the
show exceeds the annual attendance of the Texans, Rockets, and Astros.
Combined.
Pet the llama. Tease the bunnies. Marvel at the size of a thoroughbred
race-horse or Angus bull. Tormet the chickens. Hear so much country music
your teeth get loose.
The show only happens once a year, but it takes six months to get ready (new
custom boots, etc.) and six months to get back to normal.
On the other hand, we didn't build the first air-conditioned sports stadium
to be ostentatious (well, maybe a little bit). It was required.
>
> I think that Florida and Nevada also don't have state income taxes,
> which can also influence people's decisions on where they want to live
> or have a second home.
In addition to the above three, the remaining ones are:
Alaska
New Hampshire
South Dakota
Tennessee
Washington
Wyoming
Attila.Iskander
Apr 8, 2012, 11:00:56 PM4/8/12
to
"harry" <harol...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:27c5008e-bf80-422b...@h20g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
Overvaluation means that the valuation put upon a house is higher than it's
market value
It's easily verified by comparing the prices that houses ACTUALLY sell for
and their valuation before and after the sale.
Since most sale prices are reported to the tax authorities to track capital
gains, it's a no-brainer that can by crunched by a very simple program.
Attila.Iskander
Apr 8, 2012, 11:05:16 PM4/8/12
to
"Home Guy" <Ho...@Guy.com> wrote in message news:4F7E1611...@Guy.com...
Texas is usually declared a primary residence state.
My in-laws officially lived in Texas, and were summer residents of Minnesota
after they retired.
bob haller
Apr 9, 2012, 12:36:53 AM4/9/12
to
On Apr 8, 11:00 pm, "Attila.Iskander" <Attila.Iskan...@Live.com>
wrote:
> "harry" <haroldhr...@aol.com> wrote in message
theres no capital gains tax anymore for most private residences,
unless they are ultra expensive
wrote:
> "harry" <haroldhr...@aol.com> wrote in message
unless they are ultra expensive
N8N
Apr 9, 2012, 11:13:47 AM4/9/12
to
nate
Stormin Mormon
Apr 9, 2012, 11:54:13 AM4/9/12
to
If it's true, that unemployment is coming down. The housing market should be
just fine. Unless, maybe, all those millions who stopped working have no
money, and stop paying morgages?
just fine. Unless, maybe, all those millions who stopped working have no
money, and stop paying morgages?
Tomsic
Apr 9, 2012, 2:30:57 PM4/9/12
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"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61***spam...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:BDDgr.232910$Zc4.2...@news.usenetserver.com...
of foreclosed and empty homes. The worst are being knocked down and now
with rentals reporting over 90% occupancy, a new industry is taking shape.
The empty homes are being bought up (6 in one day by one company),
refurbished and then rented out. The question is whether or not small
rental companies can properly handle rental homes vs. apartments which are
usually in 2-3 story, relatively small, buildings. Nice to see the vacant
homes taken off the market though.
Tomsic
Home Guy
Apr 9, 2012, 4:41:27 PM4/9/12
to
Stormin Mormon wrote:
> If it's true, that unemployment is coming down.
I guess you don't pay attention to the various economic reports that
> If it's true, that unemployment is coming down.
come out daily / weekly.
The non-farm payroll numbers that came out on (good) friday was a big
turd. It missed expectations by about 100k.
If you're wondering why the markets took a dump on friday (look how the
ES went into the toilet) - that's why.
But don't worry. QE-3 is just another red candle away...
The Daring Dufas
Apr 18, 2012, 1:00:25 AM4/18/12
to
to get the metal from them. Of course, the outside AC equipment is the
first thing to vanish from an empty home. o_O
TDD
harry
Apr 18, 2012, 2:46:00 AM4/18/12
to
harry
Apr 18, 2012, 2:44:49 AM4/18/12
to
harry
Apr 18, 2012, 2:53:53 AM4/18/12
to
Here in the UK not one of the CEOs of our banks had any
qualifiacations in banking. That's what got us in the shit I believe.
That and the B-liar government.
We have a different taxation system for property over here too.
It's possible to take advantage of our system and make money.
There is a shortage of houses over here. That keeps prices up.
The houses we build last far longer than your typical US built house
too.
harry
Apr 18, 2012, 2:56:30 AM4/18/12
to
On Apr 5, 10:50 pm, "Percival P. Cassidy" <Nob...@NotMyISP.net> wrote:
Yes,we have consumer protection laws. Unfortunately,they didn't extend
to the banking system.
to the banking system.
harry
Apr 18, 2012, 2:54:51 AM4/18/12
to
On Apr 5, 9:50 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
Well you're fascists now.
Well you're fascists now.
gonjah
Apr 18, 2012, 3:20:14 AM4/18/12
to
On 4/5/2012 4:50 PM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Apr 18, 2012, 3:50:53 AM4/18/12
to
problem to solve. Simply force scrap dealers to positively identify their
customers and have them pay by check. If they get caught in the underground
economy with stolen scrap, charge them as accessories. It works.
Harry Johnson
Apr 18, 2012, 5:24:39 AM4/18/12
to
On 4/18/2012 3:50 AM, k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
> Why isn't the legislature doing something about it? This is really an easy
> problem to solve. Simply force scrap dealers to positively identify their
> customers and have them pay by check. If they get caught in the underground
> economy with stolen scrap, charge them as accessories. It works.
People are desperate. They've lost their jobs, unemployment benefits,
> Why isn't the legislature doing something about it? This is really an easy
> problem to solve. Simply force scrap dealers to positively identify their
> customers and have them pay by check. If they get caught in the underground
> economy with stolen scrap, charge them as accessories. It works.
homes, cars, etc. Now they're doing what it takes to survive.
Until we start practicing "Made in USA", we're screwed.
bob haller
Apr 18, 2012, 7:17:07 AM4/18/12
to
> There is a shortage of houses over here. That keeps prices up.
> The houses we build last far longer than your typical US built house
> too.
its rare a home gets torn down around here unless its in a terrible
area and not maintained...
Home Guy
Apr 18, 2012, 9:18:47 AM4/18/12
to
Harry Johnson wrote:
> People are desperate. They've lost their jobs, unemployment
> benefits, homes, cars, etc. Now they're doing what it takes
> to survive.
>
> Until we start practicing "Made in USA", we're screwed.
It's totally unexplainable that the US gives south korea a free pass
> People are desperate. They've lost their jobs, unemployment
> benefits, homes, cars, etc. Now they're doing what it takes
> to survive.
>
> Until we start practicing "Made in USA", we're screwed.
when it comes to trade.
The US imports a shit-load of high value industrial and commercial
products (cars, construction equipment, etc) while they import next to
zero US stuff.
If you applied reasonable tarrifs on the Korean stuff, you'd be able to
bring back heavy manufacturing (and jobs) to the rust belt.
Korea (for some reason) flys under your radar in the mind of the public
and press. It's always about Japan and China.
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Apr 18, 2012, 9:20:59 AM4/18/12
to
On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 05:24:39 -0400, Harry Johnson <ha...@remove.this.com>
wrote:
>On 4/18/2012 3:50 AM, k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
>
>> Why isn't the legislature doing something about it? This is really an easy
>> problem to solve. Simply force scrap dealers to positively identify their
>> customers and have them pay by check. If they get caught in the underground
>> economy with stolen scrap, charge them as accessories. It works.
>
>People are desperate. They've lost their jobs, unemployment benefits,
>homes, cars, etc. Now they're doing what it takes to survive.
Totally irrelevant.
>Until we start practicing "Made in USA", we're screwed.
Complete nonsense.
wrote:
>On 4/18/2012 3:50 AM, k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
>
>> Why isn't the legislature doing something about it? This is really an easy
>> problem to solve. Simply force scrap dealers to positively identify their
>> customers and have them pay by check. If they get caught in the underground
>> economy with stolen scrap, charge them as accessories. It works.
>
>People are desperate. They've lost their jobs, unemployment benefits,
>homes, cars, etc. Now they're doing what it takes to survive.
>Until we start practicing "Made in USA", we're screwed.
Home Guy
Apr 18, 2012, 9:23:54 AM4/18/12
to
bob haller wrote:
> > There is a shortage of houses over here.
You mean shortage of real estate.
> > There is a shortage of houses over here.
> > The houses we build last far longer than your typical US built
> > house too.
>
> so how long do they last?
If you take tornadoes, hurricanes, flooding out of the equation, your
left with temperature extremes (winter vs summer) difference between the
UK and US/Canada, and build quality (foundation, type of exterior
siding, quality of windows/doors, roof type).
I have the impression that there are more people (higher percentage)
living in appartments in the UK (vs detached homes) than in US/Canada.
tra...@optonline.net
Apr 18, 2012, 9:24:35 AM4/18/12
to
On Apr 18, 9:20 am, "k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_01.html
Crime rates are the lowest in years....
<k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 05:24:39 -0400, Harry Johnson <ha...@remove.this.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On 4/18/2012 3:50 AM, k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
>
> >> Why isn't the legislature doing something about it? This is really an easy
> >> problem to solve. Simply force scrap dealers to positively identify their
> >> customers and have them pay by check. If they get caught in the underground
> >> economy with stolen scrap, charge them as accessories. It works.
>
> >People are desperate. They've lost their jobs, unemployment benefits,
> >homes, cars, etc. Now they're doing what it takes to survive.
>
> Totally irrelevant.
And easily refuted with the facts:
> On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 05:24:39 -0400, Harry Johnson <ha...@remove.this.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On 4/18/2012 3:50 AM, k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
>
> >> Why isn't the legislature doing something about it? This is really an easy
> >> problem to solve. Simply force scrap dealers to positively identify their
> >> customers and have them pay by check. If they get caught in the underground
> >> economy with stolen scrap, charge them as accessories. It works.
>
> >People are desperate. They've lost their jobs, unemployment benefits,
> >homes, cars, etc. Now they're doing what it takes to survive.
>
> Totally irrelevant.
http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_01.html
Crime rates are the lowest in years....
Home Guy
Apr 18, 2012, 9:31:46 AM4/18/12
to
harry wrote:
> It was the banks f***d things up initially, not the housing market.
It was the administration of George Bush and his neo-cons that fucked
> It was the banks f***d things up initially, not the housing market.
things up initially with their ideas of "the new american century" and
geo-political conquest.
After racking up a huge federal debt caused by military expenditures,
they lowered interest rates (so that the debt payments wouldn't bankrupt
the country as fast as it normally would and they wouldn't have to raise
taxes to cover higher debt payments) AND they pushed for higher rates of
home ownership. They implimented policies that forced banks to lend to
credit-unworthy people.
Artificially low interest rates meant that the economy had to create
bubbles of asset appreciation in other areas to counter-act the
depression in the value of the dollar, and domestically that meant that
house prices went up.
If the dollar is artificially de-valued (through political policy or
central-bank planning) then the free economy will respond by
over-valuating other assets (oil, gold, real estate / home prices, etc).
Home Guy
Apr 18, 2012, 9:36:22 AM4/18/12
to
harry wrote:
> > > > Now - who's going to be the first bone-head to full-quote the
> > > > entire text of this post just to add one line?
> >
> > The first bone-head was: harry
>
> > > > Now - who's going to be the first bone-head to full-quote the
> > > > entire text of this post just to add one line?
> >
> > The first bone-head was: harry
>
> Got to keep you amused. Google also cuts all the crap automatically.
Google doesn't cut any "crap" (previously posted material). It just
doesn't display excessive amounts of quoted material. But when you
reply, it doesn't automatically remove the excessive amount of quoted
material either.
Kurt Ullman
Apr 18, 2012, 9:39:10 AM4/18/12
to
In article <4F8EC242...@Guy.com>, Home Guy <Ho...@Guy.com> wrote:
>
> After racking up a huge federal debt caused by military expenditures,
> they lowered interest rates (so that the debt payments wouldn't bankrupt
> the country as fast as it normally would and they wouldn't have to raise
> taxes to cover higher debt payments) AND they pushed for higher rates of
> home ownership. They implimented policies that forced banks to lend to
> credit-unworthy people.
>
Actually all of the things pointed to in the disaster, from repeal of
>
> After racking up a huge federal debt caused by military expenditures,
> they lowered interest rates (so that the debt payments wouldn't bankrupt
> the country as fast as it normally would and they wouldn't have to raise
> taxes to cover higher debt payments) AND they pushed for higher rates of
> home ownership. They implimented policies that forced banks to lend to
> credit-unworthy people.
>
Glass Steagal to the changes in Fannie and Freddie were ALL done by
Congress and ALL done by huge bipartisan votes (heck the final vote on
G-S repeal in the Senate was by a voice vote). This was very much an
entire government program with heavy support from both sides... at least
until the shit hit the fan.
> Artificially low interest rates meant that the economy had to create
> bubbles of asset appreciation in other areas to counter-act the
> depression in the value of the dollar, and domestically that meant that
> house prices went up.
Canada. So many countries in the low interest rate conspiracy?
--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz
tra...@optonline.net
Apr 18, 2012, 9:50:53 AM4/18/12
to
On Apr 18, 9:39 am, Kurt Ullman <kurtull...@yahoo.com> wrote:
bubble in housing prices. However housing prices
were probably the only thing arguing for higher interest
rates at the time. Inflation was low, the overall economy
was growing at a reasonable rate, but not running like
a freight train.
> In article <4F8EC242.B79CD...@Guy.com>, Home Guy <H...@Guy.com> wrote:
>
> > After racking up a huge federal debt caused by military expenditures,
> > they lowered interest rates (so that the debt payments wouldn't bankrupt
> > the country as fast as it normally would and they wouldn't have to raise
> > taxes to cover higher debt payments) AND they pushed for higher rates of
> > home ownership. They implimented policies that forced banks to lend to
> > credit-unworthy people.
>
> Actually all of the things pointed to in the disaster, from repeal of
> Glass Steagal to the changes in Fannie and Freddie were ALL done by
> Congress and ALL done by huge bipartisan votes (heck the final vote on
> G-S repeal in the Senate was by a voice vote). This was very much an
> entire government program with heavy support from both sides... at least
> until the shit hit the fan.
>
> > Artificially low interest rates meant that the economy had to create
> > bubbles of asset appreciation in other areas to counter-act the
> > depression in the value of the dollar, and domestically that meant that
> > house prices went up.
>
> And yet they were in line with those in the Euro zone, Japan, and even
> Canada. So many countries in the low interest rate conspiracy?
>
> --
Clearly the FED should have paid attention to the
>
> > After racking up a huge federal debt caused by military expenditures,
> > they lowered interest rates (so that the debt payments wouldn't bankrupt
> > the country as fast as it normally would and they wouldn't have to raise
> > taxes to cover higher debt payments) AND they pushed for higher rates of
> > home ownership. They implimented policies that forced banks to lend to
> > credit-unworthy people.
>
> Actually all of the things pointed to in the disaster, from repeal of
> Glass Steagal to the changes in Fannie and Freddie were ALL done by
> Congress and ALL done by huge bipartisan votes (heck the final vote on
> G-S repeal in the Senate was by a voice vote). This was very much an
> entire government program with heavy support from both sides... at least
> until the shit hit the fan.
>
> > Artificially low interest rates meant that the economy had to create
> > bubbles of asset appreciation in other areas to counter-act the
> > depression in the value of the dollar, and domestically that meant that
> > house prices went up.
>
> And yet they were in line with those in the Euro zone, Japan, and even
> Canada. So many countries in the low interest rate conspiracy?
>
> --
bubble in housing prices. However housing prices
were probably the only thing arguing for higher interest
rates at the time. Inflation was low, the overall economy
was growing at a reasonable rate, but not running like
a freight train.
Home Guy
Apr 18, 2012, 10:04:37 AM4/18/12
to
Kurt Ullman wrote:
> > They (Bush and co.) implimented policies that forced banks to
Bush seeks to increase minority homeownership
http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/housing/2004-01-20-fha_x.htm
Home Ownership and President Bush
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNqQx7sjoS8
See also:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wASFRavojBY
==============
> > Artificially low interest rates meant that the economy had to
> > create bubbles of asset appreciation in other areas to counter-
> > act the depression in the value of the dollar, and domestically
> > that meant that house prices went up.
>
> And yet they were in line with those in the Euro zone, Japan,
> and even Canada.
Japan was already at zero percent for more than a decade.
> So many countries in the low interest rate conspiracy?
Everyone else had to lower their rates to prevent their currencies from
rising in value (relative to the USD) so that their exports weren't
killed.
It's been called a "race to the bottom" and a "currency war", and it was
really started by Bush and the need to absolutely prevent interest
payments caused by the ballooning debt from crushing the economy and
needing to increase federal taxes.
> > They (Bush and co.) implimented policies that forced banks to
> > lend to credit-unworthy people.
> Actually all of the things pointed to in the disaster, from repeal
> of Glass Steagal to the changes in Fannie and Freddie were ALL done
> by Congress and ALL done by huge bipartisan votes
============
> Actually all of the things pointed to in the disaster, from repeal
> of Glass Steagal to the changes in Fannie and Freddie were ALL done
> by Congress and ALL done by huge bipartisan votes
Bush seeks to increase minority homeownership
http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/housing/2004-01-20-fha_x.htm
Home Ownership and President Bush
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNqQx7sjoS8
See also:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wASFRavojBY
==============
> > Artificially low interest rates meant that the economy had to
> > create bubbles of asset appreciation in other areas to counter-
> > act the depression in the value of the dollar, and domestically
> > that meant that house prices went up.
>
> And yet they were in line with those in the Euro zone, Japan,
> and even Canada.
> So many countries in the low interest rate conspiracy?
rising in value (relative to the USD) so that their exports weren't
killed.
It's been called a "race to the bottom" and a "currency war", and it was
really started by Bush and the need to absolutely prevent interest
payments caused by the ballooning debt from crushing the economy and
needing to increase federal taxes.
The Daring Dufas
Apr 18, 2012, 6:47:09 PM4/18/12
to
hungry and out of work. Darn it, my doctor told me I could no longer
have children because they contain too much sugar and I could choke
on the small bones. ^_^
TDD
The Daring Dufas
Apr 18, 2012, 6:48:34 PM4/18/12
to
TDD
Attila.Iskander
Apr 18, 2012, 10:26:05 PM4/18/12
to
"harry" <harol...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:583d8c18-7236-4f49...@m13g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
to give loans to people who couldn't afford them.
And when the crooked bankers realized that they could make lots of money
generating more loans, and also packaging the bad loans and dumping the risk
on investors an the government through Freddie and Fannie Mae, well how
could they resist the opportunity.
Ironically, the Dems who started the whole process also benefited from them,
because the same banks were very generous during the life of the bubble
with the very same Democrats through political donations
Go figure..
Attila.Iskander
Apr 18, 2012, 10:28:49 PM4/18/12
to
"Home Guy" <Ho...@Guy.com> wrote in message news:4F8EC242...@Guy.com...
> harry wrote:
>
>> It was the banks f***d things up initially, not the housing market.
>
> It was the administration of George Bush and his neo-cons that fucked
> things up initially with their ideas of "the new american century" and
> geo-political conquest.
>
There you go showing what an ignorant spooge you are
>
>> It was the banks f***d things up initially, not the housing market.
>
> It was the administration of George Bush and his neo-cons that fucked
> things up initially with their ideas of "the new american century" and
> geo-political conquest.
>
The whole process was put in gear under Clinton
The Bush administration actually tried to bring regulations into effect,
only to be blocked by Barney Franks (amongst others) whose boyfriend also
got a job at one of the Maes through Barney's political pull.
> After racking up a huge federal debt caused by military expenditures,
> they lowered interest rates (so that the debt payments wouldn't bankrupt
> the country as fast as it normally would and they wouldn't have to raise
> taxes to cover higher debt payments) AND they pushed for higher rates of
> home ownership. They implimented policies that forced banks to lend to
> credit-unworthy people.
>
left.
Attila.Iskander
Apr 18, 2012, 10:30:07 PM4/18/12
to
"Home Guy" <Ho...@Guy.com> wrote in message news:4F8EC356...@Guy.com...
> harry wrote:
>
>> > > > Now - who's going to be the first bone-head to full-quote the
>> > > > entire text of this post just to add one line?
>> >
>> > The first bone-head was: harry
>>
>> Got to keep you amused. Google also cuts all the crap automatically.
>
> Google doesn't cut any "crap"
Sad but true
>
>> > > > Now - who's going to be the first bone-head to full-quote the
>> > > > entire text of this post just to add one line?
>> >
>> > The first bone-head was: harry
>>
>> Got to keep you amused. Google also cuts all the crap automatically.
>
> Google doesn't cut any "crap"
If it did we would see blank posts from you..
Sad indeed.
Attila.Iskander
Apr 18, 2012, 11:12:27 PM4/18/12
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news:9166d74b-2503-45fb...@p6g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
Hard to do
Since fascist are socialists by definition
Since fascist are socialists by definition
The Daring Dufas
Apr 19, 2012, 12:40:50 AM4/19/12
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TDD
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Apr 19, 2012, 9:17:35 AM4/19/12
to
Percival P. Cassidy
Apr 19, 2012, 9:56:40 AM4/19/12
to
On 04/19/12 09:17 am, k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
>>>> You're socialist, we used to be free market.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Well you're fascists now.
>>
>> Hard to do
>> Since fascist are socialists by definition
>
> Well, that *is* what Obama is all about.
According to
>>>> You're socialist, we used to be free market.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Well you're fascists now.
>>
>> Hard to do
>> Since fascist are socialists by definition
>
> Well, that *is* what Obama is all about.
http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2012
Romney, Santorum and Gingrich are not much farther "right" than Obama
and even more authoritarian.
Perce
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Apr 19, 2012, 6:53:49 PM4/19/12
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0 new messages