> Per Han:
>>Sounds like a great idea, which switch is that? What I found on B&H
>>was an APC switch that was more designed for computer backup it seemed
> bud-- wrote:
>> On 11/15/2012 6:33 PM, Arnie Goetchius wrote:
>>> Oren wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 15 Nov 2012 17:22:56 -0500, Arnie Goetchius
>>>> <arnie.goetch...@invalid.domain> wrote:
>>>>> How much should I figure in my budget for installation of a natural gas
>>>>> generator? I'm looking at a 6-7 KW generator to handle refrigerator,
>>>>> freezer, sump pump, gas furnace, computers, TV and some lights but not
>>>>> Air Conditioning. It looks like I need an electrician for installing a
>>>>> transfer box and outlet to the outside to connect to the generator
>>>>> and a
>>>>> plumber to hook up a gas line. Generator would be about 20 feet from
>>>>> the
>>>>> electric breaker box and the gas line.
>>>>> There are a number of companies here (Central NJ) that will do the
>>>>> whole
>>>>> job and wonder what a package price might be for everything that I
>>>>> described above?
>>>>> This may be a DIY for many people but DIY is not for me for this
>>>>> project.
>>>>> I would do this in the Spring after all of the work on Sandy repair
>>>>> is done.
>> If you don't want an automatic transfer switch, another way to do it is
>> to add a breaker in the existing service panel and add a mechanical
>> interlock on the panel cover that prevents both the generator breaker
>> and service breaker from being on at the same time. One interlock is:
>> http://www.interlockkit.com/CATALOG2008.pdf >> Some panel manufacturers also make them.
> I prefer this approach as it avoids the AL/CU issues and I don't need a
> separate automatic transfer box. I checked and they make one for my box
> - Square D QO 150 amp Load center. Has interlockkit been around long
> enough that (1) most electricians will be familiar with it and (2) it
> will be accepted by the local electrical code?
1 Electricians can (I hope) RTFM
2 (from another recent thread) They are sorta listed
http://www.interlockkit.com/warranty01.htm They have a sticker "Listed to UL 67 by [Wylie Labs logo]" Wylie is a Nationally Recognized Testing Lab. Depends on whether your AHJ recognizes Wylie, and what "listed to" means. This is a mechanical device that does not have electrical ratings, so IMHO it should be OK. Ask the AHJ.
>>>> What you will pay in NJ is not the same as what it would cost in Two
>>>> Egg, Florida. It's a local thing. Check locally.
>>>> I can guess what it would cost. $14.00
>>> Do the transfer switches used by Generac accept aluminum wire?. My house
>>> was built in 1968 and the wiring to most of the circuit breakers is AL.
>>> Only new circuits added since the house was built are CU.
>> The wires will probably be spliced at the panel to wires that go to the
>> transfer switch.
>> The CPSC had extensive testing of aluminum connections done.
>> Recommendations from the supervising engineer are at:
>> http://www.kinginnovation.com/pdfs/ReducingFire070706.pdf >> This is probably more than your electrician knows.
> Thanks for the link. I had read Aronstein's stuff before but must have
> skipped over the Alumniconn as it is the first time I had heard of it.
>> A pile of gas cans is not a small problem. Even with stabilizer
>> added, it only lasts so long. How long depends
>> on how lucky you feel. So, you still have a bunch of gas
>> cans to manage. You can also siphon it out of your cars,
>> but that's no fun either. I'd probably go with a natural gas
>> portable. I've seen 5KW or so ones for $2,000 with a
>> Honda Engine. You could also get a conversion kit and
>> a gasoline generator and make one yourself for about
>> half that. Some kits allow use of 3 fuels and you can
>> switch back and forth between gasonline, propane, nat
>> gas. Overall, one of those approaches sound better
>> than a Generac standby to me.
> There's another strategy that mitigates the problem of managing gas
> cans.
> Have ONE five-gallon can full of gas and ten or more empty ones.
> If you have a local outage - say a pole gets knocked down - the five
> gallons should provide enough slack such that you can fetch more from
> a station outside the black-out zone.
> If, on the other hand, wide-spread outage is possible, such as the
> warnings over Sandy or a hurricane entering the Gulf, you'll have
> ample warning to fill all the cans you have.
That would be my thinking. FWIW, Sandy has shown that something needs to be done to insure a supply of gasoline to gas stations, plus gas stations will need to have generators ...
Hereabouts, the story is that someone came to his regular gas station, and asked for gas. Gas station guy said I have gas, but no power.
Customer says, I'll loan you my generators, be right back. Result: Long lines at that gas station.
>>> A pile of gas cans is not a small problem. Even with stabilizer
>>> added, it only lasts so long. How long depends
>>> on how lucky you feel. So, you still have a bunch of gas
>>> cans to manage. You can also siphon it out of your cars,
>>> but that's no fun either. I'd probably go with a natural gas
>>> portable. I've seen 5KW or so ones for $2,000 with a
>>> Honda Engine. You could also get a conversion kit and
>>> a gasoline generator and make one yourself for about
>>> half that. Some kits allow use of 3 fuels and you can
>>> switch back and forth between gasonline, propane, nat
>>> gas. Overall, one of those approaches sound better
>>> than a Generac standby to me.
>> There's another strategy that mitigates the problem of managing gas
>> cans.
>> Have ONE five-gallon can full of gas and ten or more empty ones.
>> If you have a local outage - say a pole gets knocked down - the five
>> gallons should provide enough slack such that you can fetch more from
>> a station outside the black-out zone.
>> If, on the other hand, wide-spread outage is possible, such as the
>> warnings over Sandy or a hurricane entering the Gulf, you'll have
>> ample warning to fill all the cans you have.
> That would be my thinking. FWIW, Sandy has shown that something needs to > be done to insure a supply of gasoline to gas stations, plus gas stations > will need to have generators ...
> Hereabouts, the story is that someone came to his regular gas station, > and asked for gas. Gas station guy said I have gas, but no power.
> Customer says, I'll loan you my generators, be right back. Result: Long > lines at that gas station.
In my town, the town provided generators to a couple of local gas
stations. The station I go to said the generator caused the computer to
shut down and he could only pump gas while the computer was working. I
suspect that if he had a UPS and had the generator charging the UPS, he
would have been OK.
>>>> A pile of gas cans is not a small problem. Even with stabilizer
>>>> added, it only lasts so long. How long depends
>>>> on how lucky you feel. So, you still have a bunch of gas
>>>> cans to manage. You can also siphon it out of your cars,
>>>> but that's no fun either. I'd probably go with a natural gas
>>>> portable. I've seen 5KW or so ones for $2,000 with a
>>>> Honda Engine. You could also get a conversion kit and
>>>> a gasoline generator and make one yourself for about
>>>> half that. Some kits allow use of 3 fuels and you can
>>>> switch back and forth between gasonline, propane, nat
>>>> gas. Overall, one of those approaches sound better
>>>> than a Generac standby to me.
>>> There's another strategy that mitigates the problem of managing gas
>>> cans.
>>> Have ONE five-gallon can full of gas and ten or more empty ones.
>>> If you have a local outage - say a pole gets knocked down - the five
>>> gallons should provide enough slack such that you can fetch more from
>>> a station outside the black-out zone.
>>> If, on the other hand, wide-spread outage is possible, such as the
>>> warnings over Sandy or a hurricane entering the Gulf, you'll have
>>> ample warning to fill all the cans you have.
>> That would be my thinking. FWIW, Sandy has shown that something needs to
>> be done to insure a supply of gasoline to gas stations, plus gas stations
>> will need to have generators ...
>> Hereabouts, the story is that someone came to his regular gas station,
>> and asked for gas. Gas station guy said I have gas, but no power.
>> Customer says, I'll loan you my generators, be right back. Result: Long
>> lines at that gas station.
> In my town, the town provided generators to a couple of local gas
> stations. The station I go to said the generator caused the computer to
> shut down and he could only pump gas while the computer was working. I
> suspect that if he had a UPS and had the generator charging the UPS, he
> would have been OK.
Its a common problem. I lot of generators (built for big box price point) put out really poor quality power. Unfortunately a UPS will only help to a certain extent. I have seen cases where a UPS won't even go back to line mode because the power from the generator is so bad.
>>>> A pile of gas cans is not a small problem. Even with stabilizer
>>>> added, it only lasts so long. How long depends
>>>> on how lucky you feel. So, you still have a bunch of gas
>>>> cans to manage. You can also siphon it out of your cars,
>>>> but that's no fun either. I'd probably go with a natural gas
>>>> portable. I've seen 5KW or so ones for $2,000 with a
>>>> Honda Engine. You could also get a conversion kit and
>>>> a gasoline generator and make one yourself for about
>>>> half that. Some kits allow use of 3 fuels and you can
>>>> switch back and forth between gasonline, propane, nat
>>>> gas. Overall, one of those approaches sound better
>>>> than a Generac standby to me.
>>> There's another strategy that mitigates the problem of managing gas
>>> cans.
>>> Have ONE five-gallon can full of gas and ten or more empty ones.
>>> If you have a local outage - say a pole gets knocked down - the five
>>> gallons should provide enough slack such that you can fetch more
>>> from a station outside the black-out zone.
>>> If, on the other hand, wide-spread outage is possible, such as the
>>> warnings over Sandy or a hurricane entering the Gulf, you'll have
>>> ample warning to fill all the cans you have.
>> That would be my thinking. FWIW, Sandy has shown that something
>> needs to be done to insure a supply of gasoline to gas stations, plus
>> gas stations will need to have generators ...
>> Hereabouts, the story is that someone came to his regular gas
>> station, and asked for gas. Gas station guy said I have gas, but no
>> power. Customer says, I'll loan you my generators, be right back. >> Result: Long lines at that gas station.
> In my town, the town provided generators to a couple of local gas
> stations. The station I go to said the generator caused the computer
> to shut down and he could only pump gas while the computer was
> working. I suspect that if he had a UPS and had the generator charging
> the UPS, he would have been OK.
For some reason they only accepted cash ...
Usually gas is cheaper in NJ than it is in NY, especially on the Thruway.
When I went to Kingston NY, ~1 week after Sandy, gas was cheaper there than by us ... Go figure <grin>.
>>>>> A pile of gas cans is not a small problem. Even with stabilizer
>>>>> added, it only lasts so long. How long depends
>>>>> on how lucky you feel. So, you still have a bunch of gas
>>>>> cans to manage. You can also siphon it out of your cars,
>>>>> but that's no fun either. I'd probably go with a natural gas
>>>>> portable. I've seen 5KW or so ones for $2,000 with a
>>>>> Honda Engine. You could also get a conversion kit and
>>>>> a gasoline generator and make one yourself for about
>>>>> half that. Some kits allow use of 3 fuels and you can
>>>>> switch back and forth between gasonline, propane, nat
>>>>> gas. Overall, one of those approaches sound better
>>>>> than a Generac standby to me.
>>>> There's another strategy that mitigates the problem of managing gas
>>>> cans.
>>>> Have ONE five-gallon can full of gas and ten or more empty ones.
>>>> If you have a local outage - say a pole gets knocked down - the five
>>>> gallons should provide enough slack such that you can fetch more
>>>> from a station outside the black-out zone.
>>>> If, on the other hand, wide-spread outage is possible, such as the
>>>> warnings over Sandy or a hurricane entering the Gulf, you'll have
>>>> ample warning to fill all the cans you have.
>>> That would be my thinking. FWIW, Sandy has shown that something
>>> needs to be done to insure a supply of gasoline to gas stations, plus
>>> gas stations will need to have generators ...
>>> Hereabouts, the story is that someone came to his regular gas
>>> station, and asked for gas. Gas station guy said I have gas, but no
>>> power. Customer says, I'll loan you my generators, be right back.
>>> Result: Long lines at that gas station.
>> In my town, the town provided generators to a couple of local gas
>> stations. The station I go to said the generator caused the computer
>> to shut down and he could only pump gas while the computer was
>> working. I suspect that if he had a UPS and had the generator charging
>> the UPS, he would have been OK.
> For some reason they only accepted cash ...
Have you considered that processing credit or debit cards at a typical gas station POS system requires an Internet connection?
> Usually gas is cheaper in NJ than it is in NY, especially on the Thruway.
> When I went to Kingston NY, ~1 week after Sandy, gas was cheaper there
> than by us ... Go figure <grin>.
Where I am (NY area) Verizon internet worked after the storm but not cable co. internet.
Anyway, if they can't process credit/debit cards there's always cash. And some small businesses (me included) can process credit cards on a smartphone.
>>>>>> A pile of gas cans is not a small problem. Even with stabilizer
>>>>>> added, it only lasts so long. How long depends
>>>>>> on how lucky you feel. So, you still have a bunch of gas
>>>>>> cans to manage. You can also siphon it out of your cars,
>>>>>> but that's no fun either. I'd probably go with a natural gas
>>>>>> portable. I've seen 5KW or so ones for $2,000 with a
>>>>>> Honda Engine. You could also get a conversion kit and
>>>>>> a gasoline generator and make one yourself for about
>>>>>> half that. Some kits allow use of 3 fuels and you can
>>>>>> switch back and forth between gasonline, propane, nat
>>>>>> gas. Overall, one of those approaches sound better
>>>>>> than a Generac standby to me.
>>>>> There's another strategy that mitigates the problem of managing gas
>>>>> cans.
>>>>> Have ONE five-gallon can full of gas and ten or more empty ones.
>>>>> If you have a local outage - say a pole gets knocked down - the five
>>>>> gallons should provide enough slack such that you can fetch more
>>>>> from a station outside the black-out zone.
>>>>> If, on the other hand, wide-spread outage is possible, such as the
>>>>> warnings over Sandy or a hurricane entering the Gulf, you'll have
>>>>> ample warning to fill all the cans you have.
>>>> That would be my thinking. FWIW, Sandy has shown that something
>>>> needs to be done to insure a supply of gasoline to gas stations, plus
>>>> gas stations will need to have generators ...
>>>> Hereabouts, the story is that someone came to his regular gas
>>>> station, and asked for gas. Gas station guy said I have gas, but no
>>>> power. Customer says, I'll loan you my generators, be right back.
>>>> Result: Long lines at that gas station.
>>> In my town, the town provided generators to a couple of local gas
>>> stations. The station I go to said the generator caused the computer
>>> to shut down and he could only pump gas while the computer was
>>> working. I suspect that if he had a UPS and had the generator charging
>>> the UPS, he would have been OK.
>> For some reason they only accepted cash ...
> Have you considered that processing credit or debit cards at a typical
> gas station POS system requires an Internet connection?
Many of them use a satellite link. Next time you go by a gas station look for a satellite dish on the roof, it may not be for TV. I know
this because I service and install POS systems in a lot of businesses
which have a satellite link for primary or backup data communications
with their corporate office. ^_^
> How much should I figure in my budget for installation of a natural gas
> generator? I'm looking at a 6-7 KW generator to handle refrigerator,
> freezer, sump pump, gas furnace, computers, TV and some lights but not
> Air Conditioning. It looks like I need an electrician for installing a
> transfer box and outlet to the outside to connect to the generator and a
> plumber to hook up a gas line. Generator would be about 20 feet from the
> electric breaker box and the gas line.
> There are a number of companies here (Central NJ) that will do the whole
> job and wonder what a package price might be for everything that I
> described above?
> This may be a DIY for many people but DIY is not for me for this project.
> I would do this in the Spring after all of the work on Sandy repair is > done.
Arnie,
Perhaps something like this might suit your needs. No affiliation, etc., just one that a friend of mine had mentioned to me for my prospective future needs.
I realize that others here have stated their concerns about Generac, however, at a price of around $1800 or so, not including installation, plus the fact that it can use either natural or LP gas, it might be worth a look. It also includes a transfer switch. The only negative thing that I've read about this particular model is that the engine is noisy. So, for probably a total cost of about $3000 (I'm guessing at the cost of the gas line & transfer switch installation), you'd have a system that could run the basic household necessities, such as the refrigerator, the furnace, the coffee maker, and so on, depending upon your priorities.
In the aftermath of Sandy, while being without power for just shy of a week, I used a portable 5000W gasoline fueled generator with extension cords to power a refrigerator, a natural gas furnace, a clock radio with a built-in light, a coffee maker, and a corded fluorescent drop light. This was only for the last several days of the power outage. The gas situation wasn't too bad as I had planned ahead and bought gas in order to use the generator at a different location. Overall, it wasn't too bad of an experience, but I had to be there for it to happen. It wasn't a user friendly experience that you'd have your spouse or child perform. That's why I started looking into one that should be expected to perform "automatically" on its own. Had this location been prepared for use of a generator in advance, it might have been easier, but there's still the gasoline issue to be addressed.
With regard to fuel, there would have to be a major disaster to interrupt the natural gas supply, so this type of generator should eliminate the need for carting gas cans back and forth to a gas station, whose supply may be cut off due to the power outage.
The bottom line being that it's better to have something, regardless of its type, rather than nothing at all.
Peter Bogiatzidis wrote:
> "Arnie Goetchius" <arnie.goetch...@invalid.domain> wrote in message > news:k83pv1$k12$1@dont-email.me...
>> How much should I figure in my budget for installation of a natural gas
>> generator? I'm looking at a 6-7 KW generator to handle refrigerator,
>> freezer, sump pump, gas furnace, computers, TV and some lights but not
>> Air Conditioning. It looks like I need an electrician for installing a
>> transfer box and outlet to the outside to connect to the generator and a
>> plumber to hook up a gas line. Generator would be about 20 feet from the
>> electric breaker box and the gas line.
>> There are a number of companies here (Central NJ) that will do the whole
>> job and wonder what a package price might be for everything that I
>> described above?
>> This may be a DIY for many people but DIY is not for me for this project.
>> I would do this in the Spring after all of the work on Sandy repair is >> done.
> Arnie,
> Perhaps something like this might suit your needs. No affiliation, etc., > just one that a friend of mine had mentioned to me for my prospective future > needs.
> I realize that others here have stated their concerns about Generac, > however, at a price of around $1800 or so, not including installation, plus > the fact that it can use either natural or LP gas, it might be worth a look. > It also includes a transfer switch. The only negative thing that I've read > about this particular model is that the engine is noisy. So, for probably a > total cost of about $3000 (I'm guessing at the cost of the gas line & > transfer switch installation), you'd have a system that could run the basic > household necessities, such as the refrigerator, the furnace, the coffee > maker, and so on, depending upon your priorities.
> In the aftermath of Sandy, while being without power for just shy of a week, > I used a portable 5000W gasoline fueled generator with extension cords to > power a refrigerator, a natural gas furnace, a clock radio with a built-in > light, a coffee maker, and a corded fluorescent drop light. This was only > for the last several days of the power outage. The gas situation wasn't too > bad as I had planned ahead and bought gas in order to use the generator at a > different location. Overall, it wasn't too bad of an experience, but I had > to be there for it to happen. It wasn't a user friendly experience that > you'd have your spouse or child perform. That's why I started looking into > one that should be expected to perform "automatically" on its own. Had this > location been prepared for use of a generator in advance, it might have been > easier, but there's still the gasoline issue to be addressed.
> With regard to fuel, there would have to be a major disaster to interrupt > the natural gas supply, so this type of generator should eliminate the need > for carting gas cans back and forth to a gas station, whose supply may be > cut off due to the power outage.
> The bottom line being that it's better to have something, regardless of its > type, rather than nothing at all.
> Hope this helps.
> Peter
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. That is about what I'm looking for. I
am bothered by the poor reviews for the Generac and I probably look at
other models. There are at least 3 houses near me that have nat gas
generators so will be talking to them to see what they are running.
A fireplace guy said he would install gas logs (vented/non-vented combo)
for $1300). That would give me heat and smaller generator would be used
to supply the other stuff you mentioned. No decisions yet. Just mulling
different possibilities.
> Peter Bogiatzidis wrote:
> > "Arnie Goetchius" <arnie.goetch...@invalid.domain> wrote in message
> >news:k83pv1$k12$1@dont-email.me...
> >> How much should I figure in my budget for installation of a natural gas
> >> generator? I'm looking at a 6-7 KW generator to handle refrigerator,
> >> freezer, sump pump, gas furnace, computers, TV and some lights but not
> >> Air Conditioning. It looks like I need an electrician for installing a
> >> transfer box and outlet to the outside to connect to the generator and a
> >> plumber to hook up a gas line. Generator would be about 20 feet from the
> >> electric breaker box and the gas line.
> >> There are a number of companies here (Central NJ) that will do the whole
> >> job and wonder what a package price might be for everything that I
> >> described above?
> >> This may be a DIY for many people but DIY is not for me for this project.
> >> I would do this in the Spring after all of the work on Sandy repair is
> >> done.
> > Arnie,
> > Perhaps something like this might suit your needs. No affiliation, etc.,
> > just one that a friend of mine had mentioned to me for my prospective future
> > needs.
> > I realize that others here have stated their concerns about Generac,
> > however, at a price of around $1800 or so, not including installation, plus
> > the fact that it can use either natural or LP gas, it might be worth a look.
> > It also includes a transfer switch. The only negative thing that I've read
> > about this particular model is that the engine is noisy. So, for probably a
> > total cost of about $3000 (I'm guessing at the cost of the gas line &
> > transfer switch installation), you'd have a system that could run the basic
> > household necessities, such as the refrigerator, the furnace, the coffee
> > maker, and so on, depending upon your priorities.
> > In the aftermath of Sandy, while being without power for just shy of a week,
> > I used a portable 5000W gasoline fueled generator with extension cords to
> > power a refrigerator, a natural gas furnace, a clock radio with a built-in
> > light, a coffee maker, and a corded fluorescent drop light. This was only
> > for the last several days of the power outage. The gas situation wasn't too
> > bad as I had planned ahead and bought gas in order to use the generator at a
> > different location. Overall, it wasn't too bad of an experience, but I had
> > to be there for it to happen. It wasn't a user friendly experience that
> > you'd have your spouse or child perform. That's why I started looking into
> > one that should be expected to perform "automatically" on its own. Had this
> > location been prepared for use of a generator in advance, it might have been
> > easier, but there's still the gasoline issue to be addressed.
> > With regard to fuel, there would have to be a major disaster to interrupt
> > the natural gas supply, so this type of generator should eliminate the need
> > for carting gas cans back and forth to a gas station, whose supply may be
> > cut off due to the power outage.
> > The bottom line being that it's better to have something, regardless of its
> > type, rather than nothing at all.
> > Hope this helps.
> > Peter
> Thanks for your thoughtful reply. That is about what I'm looking for. I
> am bothered by the poor reviews for the Generac and I probably look at
> other models. There are at least 3 houses near me that have nat gas
> generators so will be talking to them to see what they are running.
> A fireplace guy said he would install gas logs (vented/non-vented combo)
> for $1300). That would give me heat and smaller generator would be used
> to supply the other stuff you mentioned. No decisions yet. Just mulling
> different possibilities.- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
With a generator, why on earth would you want to rely on gas logs
for heat? A typical furnace doesn't take very much power to run.
I ran two houses with two gas furnaces plus 4 refrigerators/freezers
on a 4500 watt one.
> On Nov 17, 4:43 pm, Arnie Goetchius <arnie.goetch...@invalid.domain>
> wrote:
>> Peter Bogiatzidis wrote:
>> > "Arnie Goetchius" <arnie.goetch...@invalid.domain> wrote in message
>> >news:k83pv1$k12$1@dont-email.me...
>> >> How much should I figure in my budget for installation of a
>> >> natural ga > s
>> >> generator? I'm looking at a 6-7 KW generator to handle
>> >> refrigerator, freezer, sump pump, gas furnace, computers, TV and
>> >> some lights but not Air Conditioning. It looks like I need an
>> >> electrician for installing a transfer box and outlet to the
>> >> outside to connect to the generator and > a
>> >> plumber to hook up a gas line. Generator would be about 20 feet
>> >> from t > he
>> >> electric breaker box and the gas line.
>> >> There are a number of companies here (Central NJ) that will do the
>> >> who > le
>> >> job and wonder what a package price might be for everything that I
>> >> described above?
>> >> This may be a DIY for many people but DIY is not for me for this
>> >> proje > ct.
>> >> I would do this in the Spring after all of the work on Sandy
>> >> repair is done.
>> > Arnie,
>> > Perhaps something like this might suit your needs. No affiliation,
>> > etc. > ,
>> > just one that a friend of mine had mentioned to me for my
>> > prospective f > uture
>> > needs.
>> > I realize that others here have stated their concerns about
>> > Generac, however, at a price of around $1800 or so, not including
>> > installation, > plus
>> > the fact that it can use either natural or LP gas, it might be
>> > worth a > look.
>> > It also includes a transfer switch. The only negative thing that
>> > I've r > ead
>> > about this particular model is that the engine is noisy. So, for
>> > probab > ly a
>> > total cost of about $3000 (I'm guessing at the cost of the gas line
>> > & transfer switch installation), you'd have a system that could run
>> > the b > asic
>> > household necessities, such as the refrigerator, the furnace, the
>> > coffe > e
>> > maker, and so on, depending upon your priorities.
>> > In the aftermath of Sandy, while being without power for just shy
>> > of a > week,
>> > I used a portable 5000W gasoline fueled generator with extension
>> > cords > to
>> > power a refrigerator, a natural gas furnace, a clock radio with a
>> > built > -in
>> > light, a coffee maker, and a corded fluorescent drop light. This
>> > was on > ly
>> > for the last several days of the power outage. The gas situation
>> > wasn't > too
>> > bad as I had planned ahead and bought gas in order to use the
>> > generator > at a
>> > different location. Overall, it wasn't too bad of an experience,
>> > but I > had
>> > to be there for it to happen. It wasn't a user friendly experience
>> > that you'd have your spouse or child perform. That's why I started
>> > looking i > nto
>> > one that should be expected to perform "automatically" on its own.
>> > Had > this
>> > location been prepared for use of a generator in advance, it might
>> > have > been
>> > easier, but there's still the gasoline issue to be addressed.
>> > With regard to fuel, there would have to be a major disaster to
>> > interru > pt
>> > the natural gas supply, so this type of generator should eliminate
>> > the > need
>> > for carting gas cans back and forth to a gas station, whose supply
>> > may > be
>> > cut off due to the power outage.
>> > The bottom line being that it's better to have something,
>> > regardless of > its
>> > type, rather than nothing at all.
>> > Hope this helps.
>> > Peter
>> Thanks for your thoughtful reply. That is about what I'm looking for.
>> I am bothered by the poor reviews for the Generac and I probably look
>> at other models. There are at least 3 houses near me that have nat
>> gas generators so will be talking to them to see what they are
>> running.
>> A fireplace guy said he would install gas logs (vented/non-vented
>> combo) for $1300). That would give me heat and smaller generator
>> would be used to supply the other stuff you mentioned. No decisions
>> yet. Just mulling different possibilities.- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -
> With a generator, why on earth would you want to rely on gas logs
> for heat? A typical furnace doesn't take very much power to run.
> I ran two houses with two gas furnaces plus 4 refrigerators/freezers
> on a 4500 watt one.
That would be my question as well. Especially since my gas-fired circulating hot water heating system did work with just a puny 150 Watt inverter ($24.95 at Amazon) in my car (2005 Caravan).
I don't know the first thing... but in other threads I've read
gas pressure has come up.
From context, I'm guessing that a generator needs a certain
minimum gas pressure to function and that might be higher than
what is coming in on the gas utility's line.
May turn out tb FUD, but it seems worth investigating
-- Pete Cresswell
>> On Nov 17, 4:43 pm, Arnie Goetchius <arnie.goetch...@invalid.domain>
>> wrote:
>>> Peter Bogiatzidis wrote:
>>>> "Arnie Goetchius" <arnie.goetch...@invalid.domain> wrote in message
>>>> news:k83pv1$k12$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>> How much should I figure in my budget for installation of a
>>>>> natural ga >> s
>>>>> generator? I'm looking at a 6-7 KW generator to handle
>>>>> refrigerator, freezer, sump pump, gas furnace, computers, TV and
>>>>> some lights but not Air Conditioning. It looks like I need an
>>>>> electrician for installing a transfer box and outlet to the
>>>>> outside to connect to the generator and >> a
>>>>> plumber to hook up a gas line. Generator would be about 20 feet
>>>>> from t >> he
>>>>> electric breaker box and the gas line.
>>>>> There are a number of companies here (Central NJ) that will do the
>>>>> who >> le
>>>>> job and wonder what a package price might be for everything that I
>>>>> described above?
>>>>> This may be a DIY for many people but DIY is not for me for this
>>>>> proje >> ct.
>>>>> I would do this in the Spring after all of the work on Sandy
>>>>> repair is done.
>>>> Arnie,
>>>> Perhaps something like this might suit your needs. No affiliation,
>>>> etc. >> ,
>>>> just one that a friend of mine had mentioned to me for my
>>>> prospective f >> uture
>>>> needs.
>>>> I realize that others here have stated their concerns about
>>>> Generac, however, at a price of around $1800 or so, not including
>>>> installation, >> plus
>>>> the fact that it can use either natural or LP gas, it might be
>>>> worth a >> look.
>>>> It also includes a transfer switch. The only negative thing that
>>>> I've r >> ead
>>>> about this particular model is that the engine is noisy. So, for
>>>> probab >> ly a
>>>> total cost of about $3000 (I'm guessing at the cost of the gas line
>>>> & transfer switch installation), you'd have a system that could run
>>>> the b >> asic
>>>> household necessities, such as the refrigerator, the furnace, the
>>>> coffe >> e
>>>> maker, and so on, depending upon your priorities.
>>>> In the aftermath of Sandy, while being without power for just shy
>>>> of a >> week,
>>>> I used a portable 5000W gasoline fueled generator with extension
>>>> cords >> to
>>>> power a refrigerator, a natural gas furnace, a clock radio with a
>>>> built >> -in
>>>> light, a coffee maker, and a corded fluorescent drop light. This
>>>> was on >> ly
>>>> for the last several days of the power outage. The gas situation
>>>> wasn't >> too
>>>> bad as I had planned ahead and bought gas in order to use the
>>>> generator >> at a
>>>> different location. Overall, it wasn't too bad of an experience,
>>>> but I >> had
>>>> to be there for it to happen. It wasn't a user friendly experience
>>>> that you'd have your spouse or child perform. That's why I started
>>>> looking i >> nto
>>>> one that should be expected to perform "automatically" on its own.
>>>> Had >> this
>>>> location been prepared for use of a generator in advance, it might
>>>> have >> been
>>>> easier, but there's still the gasoline issue to be addressed.
>>>> With regard to fuel, there would have to be a major disaster to
>>>> interru >> pt
>>>> the natural gas supply, so this type of generator should eliminate
>>>> the >> need
>>>> for carting gas cans back and forth to a gas station, whose supply
>>>> may >> be
>>>> cut off due to the power outage.
>>>> The bottom line being that it's better to have something,
>>>> regardless of >> its
>>>> type, rather than nothing at all.
>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>> Peter
>>> Thanks for your thoughtful reply. That is about what I'm looking for.
>>> I am bothered by the poor reviews for the Generac and I probably look
>>> at other models. There are at least 3 houses near me that have nat
>>> gas generators so will be talking to them to see what they are
>>> running.
>>> A fireplace guy said he would install gas logs (vented/non-vented
>>> combo) for $1300). That would give me heat and smaller generator
>>> would be used to supply the other stuff you mentioned. No decisions
>>> yet. Just mulling different possibilities.- Hide quoted text -
>>> - Show quoted text -
>> With a generator, why on earth would you want to rely on gas logs
>> for heat? A typical furnace doesn't take very much power to run.
>> I ran two houses with two gas furnaces plus 4 refrigerators/freezers
>> on a 4500 watt one.
> That would be my question as well. Especially since my gas-fired > circulating hot water heating system did work with just a puny 150 Watt > inverter ($24.95 at Amazon) in my car (2005 Caravan).
Well, I just thought I would throw it out. Looks like nobody likes it ;-)
Arnie Goetchius <arnie.goetch...@invalid.domain> wrote:
> Peter Bogiatzidis wrote:
>> "Arnie Goetchius" <arnie.goetch...@invalid.domain> wrote in message >> news:k83pv1$k12$1@dont-email.me...
>>> How much should I figure in my budget for installation of a natural gas
>>> generator? I'm looking at a 6-7 KW generator to handle refrigerator,
>>> freezer, sump pump, gas furnace, computers, TV and some lights but not
>>> Air Conditioning. It looks like I need an electrician for installing a
>>> transfer box and outlet to the outside to connect to the generator and a
>>> plumber to hook up a gas line. Generator would be about 20 feet from the
>>> electric breaker box and the gas line.
>>> There are a number of companies here (Central NJ) that will do the whole
>>> job and wonder what a package price might be for everything that I
>>> described above?
>>> This may be a DIY for many people but DIY is not for me for this project.
>>> I would do this in the Spring after all of the work on Sandy repair is >>> done.
>> Arnie,
>> Perhaps something like this might suit your needs. No affiliation, etc., >> just one that a friend of mine had mentioned to me for my prospective future >> needs.
>> I realize that others here have stated their concerns about Generac, >> however, at a price of around $1800 or so, not including installation, plus >> the fact that it can use either natural or LP gas, it might be worth a look. >> It also includes a transfer switch. The only negative thing that I've read >> about this particular model is that the engine is noisy. So, for probably a >> total cost of about $3000 (I'm guessing at the cost of the gas line & >> transfer switch installation), you'd have a system that could run the basic >> household necessities, such as the refrigerator, the furnace, the coffee >> maker, and so on, depending upon your priorities.
>> In the aftermath of Sandy, while being without power for just shy of a week, >> I used a portable 5000W gasoline fueled generator with extension cords to >> power a refrigerator, a natural gas furnace, a clock radio with a built-in >> light, a coffee maker, and a corded fluorescent drop light. This was only >> for the last several days of the power outage. The gas situation wasn't too >> bad as I had planned ahead and bought gas in order to use the generator at a >> different location. Overall, it wasn't too bad of an experience, but I had >> to be there for it to happen. It wasn't a user friendly experience that >> you'd have your spouse or child perform. That's why I started looking into >> one that should be expected to perform "automatically" on its own. Had this >> location been prepared for use of a generator in advance, it might have been >> easier, but there's still the gasoline issue to be addressed.
>> With regard to fuel, there would have to be a major disaster to interrupt >> the natural gas supply, so this type of generator should eliminate the need >> for carting gas cans back and forth to a gas station, whose supply may be >> cut off due to the power outage.
>> The bottom line being that it's better to have something, regardless of its >> type, rather than nothing at all.
>> Hope this helps.
>> Peter
> Thanks for your thoughtful reply. That is about what I'm looking for. I
> am bothered by the poor reviews for the Generac and I probably look at
> other models. There are at least 3 houses near me that have nat gas
> generators so will be talking to them to see what they are running.
> A fireplace guy said he would install gas logs (vented/non-vented combo)
> for $1300). That would give me heat and smaller generator would be used
> to supply the other stuff you mentioned. No decisions yet. Just mulling
> different possibilities.
You can buy a self standing type of gas vent free heater. I forget if it
has logs, but who cares. All it costs is gas line.
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
> Per Arnie Goetchius:
>> installation of a natural gas
>> generator...
> Nobody had mentioned this yet: gas pressure.
> I don't know the first thing... but in other threads I've read
> gas pressure has come up.
> From context, I'm guessing that a generator needs a certain
> minimum gas pressure to function and that might be higher than
> what is coming in on the gas utility's line.
> May turn out tb FUD, but it seems worth investigating
Warning: Conjecture follows:
I think the pressure is constant throughout the system*, it's the volume of gas that can be delivered that's the issue. Obviously a 1" gas line can deliver more natural gas than a 1/2" line. So, then, when installing the piping, go for as large a diameter pipe as you can.
----------
* Unless the generator is putting the big suck on the supply. Even then, I suspect the regulator on the meter will throttle down the flow.
> (PeteCresswell) wrote:
> > Per Arnie Goetchius:
> >> installation of a natural gas
> >> generator...
> > Nobody had mentioned this yet: gas pressure.
> > I don't know the first thing... but in other threads I've read
> > gas pressure has come up.
> > From context, I'm guessing that a generator needs a certain
> > minimum gas pressure to function and that might be higher than
> > what is coming in on the gas utility's line.
> > May turn out tb FUD, but it seems worth investigating
> Warning: Conjecture follows:
> I think the pressure is constant throughout the system*, it's the volume of
> gas that can be delivered that's the issue. Obviously a 1" gas line can
> deliver more natural gas than a 1/2" line. So, then, when installing the
> piping, go for as large a diameter pipe as you can.
> ----------
> * Unless the generator is putting the big suck on the supply. Even then, I
> suspect the regulator on the meter will throttle down the flow.
Yes, a natural gas generator is no different than any
other gas appliance in that regard. Works using the same
pressure, you just need to size the piping correctly.
The 12KW one I'm screwing around with has a 1" gas
fitting and runs around 240,000 BTUs at full tilt, about
half that at half power.
BTW, I have a nice 26hp nat gas engine, low hours,
from that generator, if anyone is interested.
Not sure it makes sense to fix
the generator section, given what I've seen of all
the bad reviews of Generac online. Probably going
to part it out.
> On Nov 18, 8:26 am, "HeyBub" <hey...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>> (PeteCresswell) wrote:
>>> Per Arnie Goetchius:
>>>> installation of a natural gas
>>>> generator...
>>> Nobody had mentioned this yet: gas pressure.
>>> I don't know the first thing... but in other threads I've read
>>> gas pressure has come up.
>>> From context, I'm guessing that a generator needs a certain
>>> minimum gas pressure to function and that might be higher than
>>> what is coming in on the gas utility's line.
>>> May turn out tb FUD, but it seems worth investigating
>> Warning: Conjecture follows:
>> I think the pressure is constant throughout the system*, it's the volume of
>> gas that can be delivered that's the issue. Obviously a 1" gas line can
>> deliver more natural gas than a 1/2" line. So, then, when installing the
>> piping, go for as large a diameter pipe as you can.
>> ----------
>> * Unless the generator is putting the big suck on the supply. Even then, I
>> suspect the regulator on the meter will throttle down the flow.
> Yes, a natural gas generator is no different than any
> other gas appliance in that regard. Works using the same
> pressure, you just need to size the piping correctly.
> The 12KW one I'm screwing around with has a 1" gas
> fitting and runs around 240,000 BTUs at full tilt, about
> half that at half power.
> BTW, I have a nice 26hp nat gas engine, low hours,
> from that generator, if anyone is interested.
> Not sure it makes sense to fix
> the generator section, given what I've seen of all
> the bad reviews of Generac online. Probably going
> to part it out.
Arnie,
I installed a Generac 7KW unit myself 5 years ago after a very prolonged 10 day outage. I also assisted several other people with selection and installation of Generac units ranging in size from 7 to 16KW, all powered by natural gas. In some cases, commercial installations were done. In others it was, like mine DIY.
The total labor involved in about 10 hours give or take. The electrical is maybe 2 or 3 hours to install the transfer switch, move the circuits, and run the connection between the indoor transfer switch and the outdoor generator. The gas line is another 2 to 3 hours, possibly a lot longer, to tap off the gas main, run the line to where it is needed, pressure test, etc. Physically installing the generator with ground rod(s), slab, is another hour or two. Some of the work requires two people.
Generac has a DIY DVD video which shows all the steps. It is very straight forward.
The big surprises may come if you have too little gas delivery in your current setup, requiring your gas meter to be increased in capacity. Even the 7KW size needs a lot of BTU/hr. I forget the specifics but I am guessing at least 120,000 BTU/hr. Obviously the larger generators need proportionately more.
I share your concern about the Generac models reliability, although mine starts faithfully every week for its weekly exercise. I have never needed to really use it for an extended period of time so I can't comment on its performance under long term load.
Installation labor costs here in the immediate period after the freak ice storm in 2007 were insane and Generacs were also in short supply locally. I ordered mine from Amazon, avoided the sales tax, installed it myself, and had a total cost of $1600 for the generator, $250 or so for parts, and a couple days of work putting it in. My friends and neighbors spent as much as $5K for the same unit installed owing to the local scarcity.
> On 11/17/2012 12:36 PM, George wrote:
>> On 11/17/2012 11:31 AM, Han wrote:
>>> Arnie Goetchius <arnie.goetch...@invalid.domain> wrote in
>>> news:k889c8$vo9$1@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>> A pile of gas cans is not a small problem. Even with stabilizer
>>>>>>> added, it only lasts so long. How long depends
>>>>>>> on how lucky you feel. So, you still have a bunch of gas
>>>>>>> cans to manage. You can also siphon it out of your cars,
>>>>>>> but that's no fun either. I'd probably go with a natural gas
>>>>>>> portable. I've seen 5KW or so ones for $2,000 with a
>>>>>>> Honda Engine. You could also get a conversion kit and
>>>>>>> a gasoline generator and make one yourself for about
>>>>>>> half that. Some kits allow use of 3 fuels and you can
>>>>>>> switch back and forth between gasonline, propane, nat
>>>>>>> gas. Overall, one of those approaches sound better
>>>>>>> than a Generac standby to me.
>>>>>> There's another strategy that mitigates the problem of managing gas
>>>>>> cans.
>>>>>> Have ONE five-gallon can full of gas and ten or more empty ones.
>>>>>> If you have a local outage - say a pole gets knocked down - the five
>>>>>> gallons should provide enough slack such that you can fetch more
>>>>>> from a station outside the black-out zone.
>>>>>> If, on the other hand, wide-spread outage is possible, such as the
>>>>>> warnings over Sandy or a hurricane entering the Gulf, you'll have
>>>>>> ample warning to fill all the cans you have.
>>>>> That would be my thinking. FWIW, Sandy has shown that something
>>>>> needs to be done to insure a supply of gasoline to gas stations, plus
>>>>> gas stations will need to have generators ...
>>>>> Hereabouts, the story is that someone came to his regular gas
>>>>> station, and asked for gas. Gas station guy said I have gas, but no
>>>>> power. Customer says, I'll loan you my generators, be right back.
>>>>> Result: Long lines at that gas station.
>>>> In my town, the town provided generators to a couple of local gas
>>>> stations. The station I go to said the generator caused the computer
>>>> to shut down and he could only pump gas while the computer was
>>>> working. I suspect that if he had a UPS and had the generator charging
>>>> the UPS, he would have been OK.
>>> For some reason they only accepted cash ...
>> Have you considered that processing credit or debit cards at a typical
>> gas station POS system requires an Internet connection?
> Many of them use a satellite link. Next time you go by a gas station
> look for a satellite dish on the roof, it may not be for TV. I know
> this because I service and install POS systems in a lot of businesses
> which have a satellite link for primary or backup data communications
> with their corporate office. ^_^
> TDD
That used to be the popular way to do it in my general area. As Internet availability became more common they just connect a datawire gateway box from the POS to the network.
> On 11/17/2012 3:47 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
>> On 11/17/2012 12:36 PM, George wrote:
>>> On 11/17/2012 11:31 AM, Han wrote:
>>>> Arnie Goetchius <arnie.goetch...@invalid.domain> wrote in
>>>> news:k889c8$vo9$1@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>> A pile of gas cans is not a small problem. Even with stabilizer
>>>>>>>> added, it only lasts so long. How long depends
>>>>>>>> on how lucky you feel. So, you still have a bunch of gas
>>>>>>>> cans to manage. You can also siphon it out of your cars,
>>>>>>>> but that's no fun either. I'd probably go with a natural gas
>>>>>>>> portable. I've seen 5KW or so ones for $2,000 with a
>>>>>>>> Honda Engine. You could also get a conversion kit and
>>>>>>>> a gasoline generator and make one yourself for about
>>>>>>>> half that. Some kits allow use of 3 fuels and you can
>>>>>>>> switch back and forth between gasonline, propane, nat
>>>>>>>> gas. Overall, one of those approaches sound better
>>>>>>>> than a Generac standby to me.
>>>>>>> There's another strategy that mitigates the problem of managing gas
>>>>>>> cans.
>>>>>>> Have ONE five-gallon can full of gas and ten or more empty ones.
>>>>>>> If you have a local outage - say a pole gets knocked down - the five
>>>>>>> gallons should provide enough slack such that you can fetch more
>>>>>>> from a station outside the black-out zone.
>>>>>>> If, on the other hand, wide-spread outage is possible, such as the
>>>>>>> warnings over Sandy or a hurricane entering the Gulf, you'll have
>>>>>>> ample warning to fill all the cans you have.
>>>>>> That would be my thinking. FWIW, Sandy has shown that something
>>>>>> needs to be done to insure a supply of gasoline to gas stations, plus
>>>>>> gas stations will need to have generators ...
>>>>>> Hereabouts, the story is that someone came to his regular gas
>>>>>> station, and asked for gas. Gas station guy said I have gas, but no
>>>>>> power. Customer says, I'll loan you my generators, be right back.
>>>>>> Result: Long lines at that gas station.
>>>>> In my town, the town provided generators to a couple of local gas
>>>>> stations. The station I go to said the generator caused the computer
>>>>> to shut down and he could only pump gas while the computer was
>>>>> working. I suspect that if he had a UPS and had the generator charging
>>>>> the UPS, he would have been OK.
>>>> For some reason they only accepted cash ...
>>> Have you considered that processing credit or debit cards at a typical
>>> gas station POS system requires an Internet connection?
>> Many of them use a satellite link. Next time you go by a gas station
>> look for a satellite dish on the roof, it may not be for TV. I know
>> this because I service and install POS systems in a lot of businesses
>> which have a satellite link for primary or backup data communications
>> with their corporate office. ^_^
>> TDD
> That used to be the popular way to do it in my general area. As Internet
> availability became more common they just connect a datawire gateway box
> from the POS to the network.
A lot of the retailers I've been servicing are switching to DSL as their primary data link and using the Hughes Satellite as a backup.
Some are doing away with the satellite link and going T1 or DSL as
the primary data link and a unit manufactured by Feeney Wireless
using the 3G cellphone network as the backup. A few locations are
even using cable modems for data communications. The data speed is
much greater with the 3G modems than the satellite links and perhaps
the retailers are getting a better deal on price compared to what they have been paying Hughes. I'm waiting for the neutrino based or quantum
particle based instantaneous communication modems in the near future. ^_^
> (PeteCresswell) wrote:
>> Per Arnie Goetchius:
>>> installation of a natural gas
>>> generator...
>> Nobody had mentioned this yet: gas pressure.
>> I don't know the first thing... but in other threads I've read
>> gas pressure has come up.
>> From context, I'm guessing that a generator needs a certain
>> minimum gas pressure to function and that might be higher than
>> what is coming in on the gas utility's line.
>> May turn out tb FUD, but it seems worth investigating
> Warning: Conjecture follows:
> I think the pressure is constant throughout the system*, it's the volume of
> gas that can be delivered that's the issue. Obviously a 1" gas line can
> deliver more natural gas than a 1/2" line. So, then, when installing the
> piping, go for as large a diameter pipe as you can.
> ----------
> * Unless the generator is putting the big suck on the supply. Even then, I
> suspect the regulator on the meter will throttle down the flow.
Back when I was installing Generac systems, I would get the gas company to provide a 2 psi meter at the customer location in place of
the existing 6-8" WC(Water Column)meter. The higher pressure allowed for a line as small as 1/2 copper run to the genset and attached to a secondary regulator adjusted for an output of 11" WC pressure. The
generator has a demand regulator inside that will only flow when there
is manifold vacuum. Of course, at the meter, a regulator set for the
standard 6-8" WC pressure fed the rest of the home. ^_^
Smarty wrote:
> On 11/18/2012 8:39 AM, trad...@optonline.net wrote:
>> On Nov 18, 8:26 am, "HeyBub" <hey...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>>> (PeteCresswell) wrote:
>>>> Per Arnie Goetchius:
>>>>> installation of a natural gas
>>>>> generator...
>>>> Nobody had mentioned this yet: gas pressure.
>>>> I don't know the first thing... but in other threads I've read
>>>> gas pressure has come up.
>>>> From context, I'm guessing that a generator needs a certain
>>>> minimum gas pressure to function and that might be higher than
>>>> what is coming in on the gas utility's line.
>>>> May turn out tb FUD, but it seems worth investigating
>>> Warning: Conjecture follows:
>>> I think the pressure is constant throughout the system*, it's the
>>> volume of
>>> gas that can be delivered that's the issue. Obviously a 1" gas line can
>>> deliver more natural gas than a 1/2" line. So, then, when installing the
>>> piping, go for as large a diameter pipe as you can.
>>> ----------
>>> * Unless the generator is putting the big suck on the supply. Even
>>> then, I
>>> suspect the regulator on the meter will throttle down the flow.
>> Yes, a natural gas generator is no different than any
>> other gas appliance in that regard. Works using the same
>> pressure, you just need to size the piping correctly.
>> The 12KW one I'm screwing around with has a 1" gas
>> fitting and runs around 240,000 BTUs at full tilt, about
>> half that at half power.
>> BTW, I have a nice 26hp nat gas engine, low hours,
>> from that generator, if anyone is interested.
>> Not sure it makes sense to fix
>> the generator section, given what I've seen of all
>> the bad reviews of Generac online. Probably going
>> to part it out.
> Arnie,
> I installed a Generac 7KW unit myself 5 years ago after a very prolonged
> 10 day outage. I also assisted several other people with selection and
> installation of Generac units ranging in size from 7 to 16KW, all
> powered by natural gas. In some cases, commercial installations were
> done. In others it was, like mine DIY.
> The total labor involved in about 10 hours give or take. The electrical
> is maybe 2 or 3 hours to install the transfer switch, move the circuits,
> and run the connection between the indoor transfer switch and the
> outdoor generator. The gas line is another 2 to 3 hours, possibly a lot
> longer, to tap off the gas main, run the line to where it is needed,
> pressure test, etc. Physically installing the generator with ground
> rod(s), slab, is another hour or two. Some of the work requires two people.
> Generac has a DIY DVD video which shows all the steps. It is very
> straight forward.
> The big surprises may come if you have too little gas delivery in your
> current setup, requiring your gas meter to be increased in capacity.
> Even the 7KW size needs a lot of BTU/hr. I forget the specifics but I am
> guessing at least 120,000 BTU/hr. Obviously the larger generators need
> proportionately more.
> I share your concern about the Generac models reliability, although mine
> starts faithfully every week for its weekly exercise. I have never
> needed to really use it for an extended period of time so I can't
> comment on its performance under long term load.
> Installation labor costs here in the immediate period after the freak
> ice storm in 2007 were insane and Generacs were also in short supply
> locally. I ordered mine from Amazon, avoided the sales tax, installed it
> myself, and had a total cost of $1600 for the generator, $250 or so for
> parts, and a couple days of work putting it in. My friends and neighbors
> spent as much as $5K for the same unit installed owing to the local
> scarcity.
> Hope this is useful info.
> Smarty
Thanks for the response. Around here people are quoting about $1K per 1K
of power or $7000 for a 7K unit. 20-30 years ago I would have done it
myself. Having recently become an octogenarian, it is not something I
can physically deal with. Best I can do is learn everything I can before
I start negotiating a deal.
