Cleaning the water lines
rand...@my-deja.com
home. Our city water is from a well, so I had a
single tank water softener installed. For the
last 4 months I have been getting orange water in
the bath tubs occasionally. I had someone come
out to test the water and we determined I was
exceeding the capacity of the water softener. Our
water (before the softener) tests at 23GPG
hardness with 2 to 3 PPM of iron. Our family of
seven) has been using about 600 to 800 gallons
per day. So It was suggested that I go with a
twin tank system. I bought a Braswell Twin-948R
60,000 grain system. The softener works great but
we were still seeing an orange color to the
water. I drained the hot water heater four times
to try to remove any sediment, but still had the
problem. Last weekend I poured 2 gallons of
Clorox into the hot water heater and left it for
8 hours, then flushed the lines thoughout the
house. Now the water has a green tint.
Does anyone have a suggestion for cleaning out my
copper water pipes?
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Gary Slusser
<rand...@my-deja.com> wrote
I suggest another after the unit water analysis to make sure you aren't
getting iron through the unit. You could have a rust build up in the
tub/shower line too. I question the water use... Normally I use 60 gpd per
person, that's 420 and you say all but a hundred. Your new house should have
water restriction (conserving) fixtures and to use more than 60
gpd/person... man that's a lota water! What do you do with it all?
Seriously... check all toilets etc. for even the slightest leaks. Leakage
won't be measured by softeners usually because it's below their threshold of
.2 gpm flow. This applies to most and although I know Braswell some I'm not
sure if their's would catch it or not. That would let you go over the
capacity of the unit again. And if they use conditioned water to regenerate
and for brine makeup water... you aren't getting conditioned water if you're
over capacity.
Alla 2 gallons in the water heater huh... hummmm your own idea or a friend?
Hope it goes away... 8 hours...! As green goes... the tint's a pretty or
ugly green?
Gary
Quality Water Associates
rand...@my-deja.com
and I was hoping you would comment.
I also suspect rust in the water lines. The Clorox suggestion was from
the water softener supplier. I called Braswell and they also suggested
the Clorox treatment. I plan on doing it again this weekend except this
time I will run the water at each outlet until I smell Clorox then
close it off overnight. If this takes care of the problem in the "Hot"
water lines I will do it in the cold (somehow).
We do use a lot of water. I have teenagers, twin 2 year old boys, and
my wife operates an inhouse daycare for 10 kids. Daily water usage
includes: 5 showers, 2 baths, 2 dishwater loads, and a minumum of 5
loads of laundry, plus we can't forget the toilets. My city water
department loves me. Last qtr. my bill was for 91,000 gallons. We were
also watering our new lawn. WOW!
I'm told the Braswell turbine will catch the smallest leak. I don't see
any unexpected blinking of the turbine. The Braswel unit does use soft
water to regenerate. About 66 gallons. With the present setting it
regens every 300 gallons, easily twice a day. I plan on taking a sample
of cold and hot in for testing today.
The green tint is not too ugly, but my wife expects it to be crystal
clear, so I'm hearing about it, if you know what I mean.
When I called Braswell today they said I could have an additional 0.5
cu ft of media added to each tank to increase the capacity, presently
each tank has 1 cu ft. I explained my problem and they said they would
call me back on Monday.
Thanks for hearing me out.
Have a great weekend.
rand...@my-deja.com
I had the water tested this afternoon. It is soft alright but there is
0.5 PPM iron in the cold water. At the time I took the sample there was
still 200 gallons to go before regeneration. There is obviously
something wrong. My water softener dealer will be out to the house next
week. I have postponed the Clorox treatment for this weekend.
Best regards
Gary Slusser
Don't let the bleach in the heater or lines so long, 20-30 minutes is enough
and then flush each faucet/fixture for about a fast count to 20 and wait the
20-30 minutes and repeat until all the bleach smell is gone. Chlorine is
only good for a limited amount of time and you want the used up gone and
newer added. Chlorine is measured as total and free, free is what's left to
do work after some work has been done.
You aren't watering the lawn with softened water I hope.
I strongly suggest you increase the capacity of each tank. I like about a
thousand gallons between regenerations, although I don't know why. It
usually is a good minimum though, mostly for efficiency I think. You won't
get that much with what they are offering but its better than what you have
now. I don't know how they can add a half foot without larger tanks. Don't
do anything until you get the water tested before and after the unit. The
slightest leak... small leaks are totaled to be quite high in gallons over
time but if you are regenerating at every 300 gallons.... it would have to
be a fair leak I'd guess. They may have the meter set very close to total
exhaustion of the beds and it won't take much of a leak and you'll run out
of capacity before regenerating.
Gary
Quality Water Associates
Gary Slusser
<rand...@my-deja.com> wrote
> In article <869tre$44a$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> rand...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > In article <9kwh4.2604$0c.6...@nnrp1.ptd.net>,
> > "Gary Slusser" <qwas...@ptd.net> wrote:
> Gary,
> I had the water tested this afternoon. It is soft alright but there is
> 0.5 PPM iron in the cold water. At the time I took the sample there was
> still 200 gallons to go before regeneration. There is obviously
> something wrong. My water softener dealer will be out to the house next
> week. I have postponed the Clorox treatment for this weekend.
> Best regards
They should redo the math for the meter setting, you might not be getting
the regen before total bed exhaustion which would allow no soft water for
regen or brine makeup.... or the salt setting isn't right. You may be using
a bunch more water than they calculate too. This all goes to them suggesting
addition of the .5' of resin. you unit may be regenerating too often or need
to too soon (before the last regen is finished. Maybe arranging laundry to a
longer time frame instead of at times when other water use is highest would
help.You could have a rust problem in the tubing after the unit too and it's
being added to the treated water. Let us know what they say and do.
Gary
Quality Water Associates
rand...@my-deja.com
I spoke with my supplier today. They are coming out to the house on
Thursday to check things out. I told him to go ahead and add the 0.5 cu
ft to each tank. Apparently they can do this because of the way they
clean the resin bed. When I called Braswell they had the same
suggestion. When the do his they also change the "buttons" whatever
that is. Presently the usage is set to 7 lbs of salt per regen, they
are going to change that to 10 lbs. per regen. I will let you know how
it turns out later in the week.
One more piece of info - this unit was installed in the builders model
for about a year and a half before I bought it. I was told the unit was
hooked up, checked for leaks, then put in bypass. We talked about this
again today. When they come out on Thursday they will also acid clean
the bed if necessary.
Besat regards
Gary Slusser
<rand...@my-deja.com> wrote
> I spoke with my supplier today. They are coming out to the house on
> Thursday to check things out. I told him to go ahead and add the 0.5 cu
> ft to each tank. Apparently they can do this because of the way they
> clean the resin bed. When I called Braswell they had the same
> suggestion. When the do his they also change the "buttons" whatever
> that is. Presently the usage is set to 7 lbs of salt per regen, they
> are going to change that to 10 lbs. per regen. I will let you know how
> it turns out later in the week.
> One more piece of info - this unit was installed in the builders model
> for about a year and a half before I bought it. I was told the unit was
> hooked up, checked for leaks, then put in bypass. We talked about this
> again today. When they come out on Thursday they will also acid clean
> the bed if necessary.
> Besat regards
They clean the bed with a water pulse type shock if I'm remembering right.
IOW's they don't need the same 'free board' as most. That's the space above
the resin to the top of the tank. Buttons probably ahs to do with the brine
and drain line flow controls, or capacity etc. if it's an electronic timer.
Or both. Sounds like they know what they're doing and only time will tell. I
don't think sitting hurt it at all. Being in service for that length of time
with no salt would have if there was some iron in the water.
Gary
Quality Water Associates
rand...@my-deja.com
the business that we are heading in the proper direction. I will let
you know the outcome.
By the way, Where are you? Do you have any relatives in Michigan?
Specifically, I am thinking about Slusser Well Drilling Co. in
Ypsilanti, MI?
Until next time. see you later.
rand...@my-deja.com
0.2 PPM iron in the soft water. They know this Braswell unit will
remove all of my iron so they suspect the resin bed. They added 8 oz
of "RES UP" to the brine water and forced a regen cycle. They asked me
to do the same think later in the day. They let it operate for a couple
days. I called Saturday and they came back to check the water. There is
still (1.0 PPM)iron in the soft water so, They are going to replace (or
rebed)the tanks. I did tell them to add the 0.5 cu ft to each tank and
the other changes mentioned above.
This is scheduled for tomorrow so I will let you know in a couple days.
Best regards,
Gary Slusser
<rand...@my-deja.com> wrote
> "Gary Slusser" <qwas...@ptd.net> wrote:
> >
> > <rand...@my-deja.com> wrote
> > > "Gary Slusser" <qwas...@ptd.net> wrote:
> > <snip>
> > Here is an update. My supplier was out last Thursday and measured
> 0.2 PPM iron in the soft water. They know this Braswell unit will
> remove all of my iron so they suspect the resin bed. They added 8 oz
> of "RES UP" to the brine water and forced a regen cycle. They asked me
> to do the same think later in the day. They let it operate for a couple
> days. I called Saturday and they came back to check the water. There is
> still (1.0 PPM)iron in the soft water so, They are going to replace (or
> rebed)the tanks. I did tell them to add the 0.5 cu ft to each tank and
> the other changes mentioned above.
> This is scheduled for tomorrow so I will let you know in a couple days.
> Best regards,
You sure you don't have any water leaks after the unit? The math is done
right for the meter setting they are using? I still say the unit is way too
small for your water use. Ask them what they will do if the same problem
occurs a few weeks or months from now.
Gary
Quality Water Associates
rand...@my-deja.com
They replaced the tanks and added 0,5 cu ft to each tank. I am still
using the settings for standard 9 x 48 tanks in the computer untill I
get this under control.
1 1/2 weeks have past & I still see a reddish tint to the water. I
called the city DPW to talk to them about the water and found out some
of my neighbors also complained about the iron in the water. The DPW
came out to the houise two days ago. They said they will make certain
the valves are open below the street to insure that the water
circulates vs. me being on a the end of the line. (There are still
about 20 empty lots to the east of my house.) They called today to say
the valves are open, they did flush the fire hydrants and got a lot of
iron out. I had the water tested before the softener and it had 6 PPM
of iron.
I think my problems are in the street.
I will advise
Gary Slusser
<rand...@my-deja.com> wrote
> >
> Here is the latest:
> They replaced the tanks and added 0,5 cu ft to each tank. I am still
> using the settings for standard 9 x 48 tanks in the computer untill I
> get this under control.
> 1 1/2 weeks have past & I still see a reddish tint to the water. I
> called the city DPW to talk to them about the water and found out some
> of my neighbors also complained about the iron in the water. The DPW
> came out to the houise two days ago. They said they will make certain
> the valves are open below the street to insure that the water
> circulates vs. me being on a the end of the line. (There are still
> about 20 empty lots to the east of my house.) They called today to say
> the valves are open, they did flush the fire hydrants and got a lot of
> iron out. I had the water tested before the softener and it had 6 PPM
> of iron.
> I think my problems are in the street.
> I will advise
6 ppm and from the street and it's city water..... If it does not clear up
I'd suggest they buy you and the others iron/turbidity filters. It would be
nice if they refunded your and/or the dealer's costs for upgrading etc. your
present equipment too, wouldn't it? But then the dealer should have done a
raw water test and saw the iron and questioned why so high too. Anyway...
now we know huh.
Gary
Quality Water Associates
rand...@my-deja.com
visits. I remember that was one of your first suggestions. Well thanks
to the dealer not checking I now have two brand new tanks vs. the ones
from the builders model and each has 1.5 cu ft (that they did not
charge extra for)
I am going to have the city check the iron level next Tuesday. They
seem very willing to work with me to get this resolved.
Thanks for your help.
Best regards,
Randy
Gary Slusser
> clear up
> > I'd suggest they buy you and the others iron/turbidity filters. It
> would be
> > nice if they refunded your and/or the dealer's costs for upgrading
> etc. your
> > present equipment too, wouldn't it? But then the dealer should have
> done a
> > raw water test and saw the iron and questioned why so high too.
> Anyway...
> > now we know huh.
> >
> > Gary
> > Quality Water Associates
> >
> > Your right! The dealer should have checked at least during one of his
> visits. I remember that was one of your first suggestions. Well thanks
> to the dealer not checking I now have two brand new tanks vs. the ones
> from the builders model and each has 1.5 cu ft (that they did not
> charge extra for)
> I am going to have the city check the iron level next Tuesday. They
> seem very willing to work with me to get this resolved.
> Thanks for your help.
> Best regards,
> Randy
I think you should set the unit for the size of tanks you have... although I
don't understand tank sizes and setting the unit based on that. The 9x48"
are for 1 cut and possibly you may get the salt dose for that and not the
1.5' you have and with that amount of iron you really should be regenerating
all the resin fully IMO. I'd call the dealer and inform him of what you
found, you may need him in the future. The water co. probably doesn't want
many complaints about this or to have them go any farther than themselves...
Gary
Quality Water Associates
rand...@my-deja.com
I appreciate your concern on moving up the capacity but, I called
Braswell Company to check this out. They said the computer takes care
of putting more water back in the brine tank to handle the larger
capacity.
I did inform my dealer, They were the ones who tested the water to find
out the city water was 6 PPM. I sure they were kicking themselves after
I left. It took a little effort to get the sample of city water now
that my outside faucets are shut off, I had to cut a couple cable ties
& put the drain line from my filter ahead of the softener.
At least now I know I need to direct my complaints to the City Water
Dept. instead of the softener dealer.
Thanks again.
Gary Slusser
> I appreciate your concern on moving up the capacity but, I called
> Braswell Company to check this out. They said the computer takes care
> of putting more water back in the brine tank to handle the larger
> capacity.
> I did inform my dealer, They were the ones who tested the water to find
> out the city water was 6 PPM. I sure they were kicking themselves after
> I left. It took a little effort to get the sample of city water now
> that my outside faucets are shut off, I had to cut a couple cable ties
> & put the drain line from my filter ahead of the softener.
> At least now I know I need to direct my complaints to the City Water
> Dept. instead of the softener dealer.
> Thanks again.
The 9x48" tanks hold 1' of resin or 32K capacity (usually) and won't pick up
the other .5' unless you have to plug in the 48K manually in setting up the
unit. If so why specify the tank size.....? And what if we were to use high
capacity resin (1' = +/-50K), how would it be set it up for that? Something
isn't right here.
I don't understand about the water sample.... If you used water from the
drain line of an iron filter etc. the iron content would be artificially
high and of no use. And if you are putting the drain water into a line
feeding the softener that is going to cause real problems for the softener.
Gary
Quality Water Associates
rand...@my-deja.com
normally supplied with 1 cu ft of resin. The on board computer is
programed for the 9x48 tank and all calculations are made based on 1 cu
ft. The capacity can be increased by adding an additional 0.5 cu ft to
each tank and programming the computer for 10x54 tanks. The computer
uses the new setting to calculate how much water to put in the brine
tank based on time allowing water to flow thru a metered orifice. It
also calculates how much water and time needed to backwash, etc. It
does pulse the water thru the tanks to stir it up more. I was told by
using the 9x48 setting, the unit uses 7 lbs/regen cycle, and switching
to 10x54 the unit will use 10lbs/regen. I believe this is based on
putting more water back into the brine tank and disolving more salt.
There is another setting on the Braswell to determine how many gallons
between regenerations. They use a formula (the grains of hardness times
amount of iron in PPM = the setting)
As far as the sample of city water. My dealer installed a Rusco filter
ahead of the Braswell softener. This filter has a replaceable 140 mesh
cartrige with a valve and drain line on the bottom. My dealer suggested
that I momentarily open this valve once a month to flush out any large
particles inside the filter housing. This is where I took my sample,
after letting it run for about a minute.
The day I took the sample was the day the city flushed my water lines
by opening a fire hydrant down the street. That evening I took a sample
that measured 6 PPM as checked by my dealer. The city sent their own
people out today to sample the water and measure 2 PPM. The idea now is
that they stirred everything up by flushing the hydrants which caused
the high iron reading. The city worker did get a lot of iron out of the
hydrant. The 2 PPM reading is considered normal.
I am not sure if I am out of trouble yet. The city plans on flushing
the hydrants every 3 or 4 weeks until all the houses are built on my
street.
I will have to see how we do.
Hamm4fun
Are you sure the hydrants are on the same system as the residential water. I am
not sure of what the norm is but every where I have lived these were two
separate systems.
rand...@my-deja.com
at my house sure was stirred up the day the DPW flushed the water out
of the hydrants to try to remove the sediment.
rand...@my-deja.com
I think that I should purchase my own iron test kit. Then I could
monitor the iron levels myself.
Are there different types? Which would you recommend (at a reasonable
price) Can you suggest where to purchase.
I don't think I need a hardness tester. I can easily tell if the water
is soft every time I take a shower.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
rand...@my-deja.com
More information: This afternoon I took another sample of city water
and my soft water to my dealer. The city water tested 2 PPM and my
softened water was 1 PPM. It looks like I'm not out of trouble yet. Our
water still looks a little orange. I was told to contact the service
manager on Monday. I will let you know the results.
Gary Slusser
You need to use all the resin you have and you aren't if you don't change
the size of the tanks. Any dealer can get you an iron test kit. The chlorine
in their water is probably causing rusting (iron) of the cast iron hydrants
etc. and IMO if that doesn't stop you very probably need an iron filter
ahead of the softener. If you took the sample at that filter I hope you
flushed it good first or the data will be artificially high IMO. The 1 ppm
after the unit is wrong as you know so set the unit for the amount of resin
you actually have and get it regenerated properly and go from there. The
resin can be adding iron to your water if it's not regenerated right which
using 9x48" tanks ensures improper regeneration.
Gary
Quality Water Associates
Robert Bozek
Robert Bozek
Gary Slusser
"Robert Bozek" <rbo...@mailhost.chi.ameritech.net> wrote
Sorry but I didn't see anything to reply to in either of these two posts. No
attachments either....
Gary
Quality Water Associates