Opinons on AC brands Rheem, Trane, Westinghouse

[Ashton Crusher]

Any opinions on these brands of Home AC systems?

Rheem, Trane, Westinghouse?

First estimate I got was for a Rheem system. He also gave me a
comparison $$$ on a Westinghouse. Rheem 5 ton (15.5 seer) was $6,600
and the Westinghouse (16 seer) $5,800.

Rheem warranty is 10 years parts, 2 years labor. Is that the industry
standard?

[Oren]

On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 18:19:40 -0700, Ashton Crusher <de...@moore.net>
wrote:

Check Amana. <http://www.amana-hac.com/>

I'm happy. I can be wrong, but I'm told all HVAC systems in the USA
are essentially make in the same factory.

Just the brand names change.

Chime in Doofus...

[hrho...@sbcglobal.net]

We have been very happy with Rheem AC, lasted 30+years.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

At least 6 "american" manufacturers. American Standard/Trane,
Goodman/Daikin, Coleman/York/ Johnson Controls, Amana, Carrier, and
Lennox.

Add Rheem (now owned by Paloma of Japan) - Virtually all of the rest
are either rebrands of the above or imports

[bob haller]

On Jun 17, 10:46 pm, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 18:30:34 -0700, Oren <O...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> >On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 18:19:40 -0700, Ashton Crusher <d...@moore.net>

> >wrote:
>
> >>Any opinions on these brands of Home AC systems?
>
> >>Rheem, Trane, Westinghouse?
>
> >>First estimate I got was for a Rheem system.  He also gave me a
> >>comparison $$$ on a Westinghouse.  Rheem 5 ton (15.5 seer) was $6,600
> >>and the Westinghouse (16 seer) $5,800.
>
> >>Rheem warranty is 10 years parts, 2 years labor.  Is that the industry
> >>standard?
>
> >Check Amana.  <http://www.amana-hac.com/>
>
> >I'm happy. I can be wrong, but I'm told all HVAC systems in the USA
> >are essentially make in the same factory.
>
> >Just the brand names change.
>
> >Chime in Doofus...
>
>   At least 6 "american" manufacturers. American Standard/Trane,
> Goodman/Daikin, Coleman/York/ Johnson Controls, Amana, Carrier, and
> Lennox.
>
> Add Rheem (now owned by Paloma of Japan) - Virtually all of the rest
> are either rebrands of the above or imports

goodmanm has been great for us

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 18:19:40 -0700, Ashton Crusher <de...@moore.net>
wrote:

A good install is more important than the brand name.

[tra...@optonline.net]

On Jun 17, 10:28 pm, "hrhofm...@sbcglobal.net"

Rheem and RUUD are the same company. I had a
RUUD that lasted 27 years. Only thing I ever had to do
was put in a hard start kit. I replaced it with a new RUUD
two years ago. When I did my research, I could not see
a difference between the major brands in reliability. In
fact, the problem rate with RUUD was less than some
of the brands that have a better public perception.

As Ed points out, getting the install done right is more
important than the epqt. I'd rather have the lower rated
eqpt with the best install, than the other way around.
Also, when doing the install, consider if anything needs
to be changed. For example, I realized that by just
running the lines a little farther, I could relocate the outside
unit away from my den, away from the backyard. I
moved it to the north side, by a bathroom. The new unit
being quieter, plus the relocation, made a big difference.

Depending on your skill level, you could also DIY, but
I would only recommend that if you have the various
skills, most of the tools you need, and are willing to
take the risk, have the time, etc. I did mine, saved
$4000 and know that the install was done right.

[The Daring Dufas]

Thanks for that smartypants ^_^

Trane and American Standard are like the old Chevy and GMC. Look a bit
different but parts swap under the hood. They're expensive for the high
end models but high quality. The Trane and American Standard are like a
lot of units and sold only through authorized dealers. I've sold and
installed a lot of new Goodman, Armstrong and Ducane but repaired and
resold, rebuilt everything else. I did sell a new Samsung 4 ton 3ų unit
to a restaurant and it had an American made compressor and controls but
it worked very well and is still going after being relocated 3 times
when the business has moved. The systems me and my friend GB sold were
the systems sold as builders/contractors grade systems by the supply
houses. The different manufactures produce expensive high end, high
efficiency units that are as good as any but the less expensive units
will do the job and last a long time if they're correctly installed and
serviced properly on a regular basis. Unfortunately, the cheaper units
windup being thrown in by Billy Bob's AC Service and the things break
because of improper installation and Billy Bob is nowhere to be found.
This tends to cause customers to blame the equipment rather than the
moron who did the minimum amount of work just to make the system run. If
an installer takes the time to properly install the equipment, support
the line set and do a leak check with nitrogen then a triple
vacuum before charging the system with refrigerant, any AC/heat pump
will give years of service as long as the homeowner changes filters and
keep the equipment clean. I've done a lot of modifications to less
expensive systems to protect them from power surges and loss of
refrigerant charge and added high pressure safety switches like the
expensive units have as standard. The mods prevent a lot of system
failures and burned out compressors. ^_^

TDD

[Art Todesco]

Yes very true. I have and Amana dual stage 16 SEER heat pump/AC. The
nice thing is that Amana provides a lifetime warranty. If anything
breaks in the outside unit, they replace the whole unit! My heating guy
was impressed with that. That said, a friend of mine has 2 Goodman
units. Goodman and Amana are one and the same, sort of. He has had
nothing but trouble and most of it was a bad install. BTW, the units
that come out of the factory with the Goodman name, only have the
lifetime warranty on the compressor.

[Art Todesco]

Oops, missed one thing in my previous post/answer. With the dual stage
outdoor unit and a Honeywell thermostat with humidity control, it works
really well at removing humidity on those not so hot, but humid days,
which we have in my area almost all summer long. The unit usually only
runs in stage 1, but if it needs it, it pops up to stage 2 and cools
rapidly.

[tra...@optonline.net]

On Jun 18, 8:27 am, Art Todesco <actode...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 6/17/2013 11:43 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>
>

> > On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 18:19:40 -0700, Ashton Crusher <d...@moore.net>

> > wrote:
>
> >> Any opinions on these brands of Home AC systems?
>
> >> Rheem, Trane, Westinghouse?
>
> >> First estimate I got was for a Rheem system.  He also gave me a
> >> comparison $$$ on a Westinghouse.  Rheem 5 ton (15.5 seer) was $6,600
> >> and the Westinghouse (16 seer) $5,800.
>
> >> Rheem warranty is 10 years parts, 2 years labor.  Is that the industry
> >> standard?
>
> > A good install is more important than the brand name.
>
> Yes very true.  I have and Amana dual stage 16 SEER heat pump/AC.  The
> nice thing is that Amana provides a lifetime warranty.  If anything
> breaks in the outside unit, they replace the whole unit!  My heating guy
> was impressed with that.

I think if you read the warranty, there has to be a lot
more to it than that. For example, if the contactor fails,
they're going to replace the whole unit? Or the fan?
Usually these long warranties apply only to the compressor
and typically don't cover labor, other parts, etc.

[Pete C.]

It's important to remember that just because two units are built in the
same factory does not mean they are built with the same parts.

[jamesgang]

When I look inside a lot of them it looks like a lot of the same parts.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

There are only so many ways to make an airconditioner that (a -
Works and 9b- is economical to build.
Nobody makes their own capacitors - and it would be unecconomical and
foolish for everyone to manufacture their own compressors, motors, and
fans. So yes, under the covers they all LOOK pretty similar. Heck,
they ARE pretty similar. And in many cases they do share many common
parts. That's just the nature of the product. You couldn't afford to
buy or service any of them if they made all their own components, down
to the cover screws and wire connectors.

[larrymo...@my-deja.com]

On Monday, June 17, 2013 6:19:40 PM UTC-7, Ashton Crusher wrote:
> Any opinions on these brands of Home AC systems?
>
> Rheem, Trane, Westinghouse?
>
> First estimate I got was for a Rheem system. He also gave me a
> comparison $$$ on a Westinghouse. Rheem 5 ton (15.5 seer) was $6,600
> and the Westinghouse (16 seer) $5,800.

Apparently Westinghouse A/C is no longer actually Westinghouse but
is now Nordyne.

You may want to check in the HVAC-talk.com forum for residential
A/C.

Consumer Reports' surveys have found few differences in reliability among brands, but they've almost always ranked York and Goodman/Amana
at the bottom.

Consider urine and hail. Louvers on the outdoor unit will help protect the coil fins from being dissolved by animal urine or smashed by hail. I believe all Rheem/Ruud units have louvered cases.

[Ashton Crusher]

On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 00:09:53 -0700 (PDT), larrymo...@my-deja.com
wrote:

The guy out today to give me an estimate was pushing Amana systems.
And at top dollar! Another guy gave me a quote for Rheem and
Westinghouse that was half what today's guy gave me. The guy today
also said they could do Lennox but that the Lennox was a really top
level. Later I asked him where Rheem fit into the picture and he said
it was comparable to Lennox. Then there is the third guy who's
working up an estimate. Talked to him today and mentioned the Rheem
and he had a fit saying they are crap. He's a big fan of Trane.

[Ashton Crusher]

On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 18:19:40 -0700, Ashton Crusher <de...@moore.net>
wrote:

I settled on Rheem. My AC guy said he typically beats other companies
by 20 to 30%. His off the cuff estimate for lower tier (American
standard (Trane) was about 7 to 8 thousand per unit. He insisted I
get two estimates from other companies to validate his prices. So one
company told me 16K to do the two systems with single speed Amana 14
seer. For 16 seer 2 speed Amana they wanted a little over $20K. For
25K they would do Trane XLi16 which I think was 16 seer 2 speed.
Another company quoted Rheem 15.5 seer 2 speed non-communicating
system for a little over $13K for the two systems.

I conveyed this to my AC guy and he said the second guy was the first
time he's ever seen anyone else come in so low. He priced out what he
believed to be the same system and came up with $14K but he's eating
some of the work he did trying to get my old system to work and he's
actually supplying the next step up Rheem, the 16 seer with 2 speed
communicating motor (serial communication between the outside box and
the air handler and the thermostat). So He's doing the work. Got the
first system done yesterday and it's working good. Second will be
done Monday.

System looks well built to me. Outside is fully enclosed, very large
coil, very quiet. Looking in the "electric box" part of it and there
is almost nothing there compared to all the wires, relays, contactors
and delay gizmos on the old system. Just one contactor, start cap,
and a small PCB controller. If the compressor or coil goes out they
replace the entire outside unit for 10 years. 2 years on labor.

The inside box is variable speed and the evap coil in it looks almost
twice as large as the coil in my old air handler. I'll report back in
10 years plus a day....

[mako...@yahoo.com]

I would think long and hard about a simple 3 speed relay controlled motor vs an electronically controlled variable speed motor. Consider the cost to purchase AND repair after a power surge vs how much energy it supposedly will save you.
Mark

[Percival P. Cassidy]

If the OP has any licensed amateur radio operators in his immediate
vicinity, he would be advised to inquire about the Radio Frequency
Interference characteristics of any variable-speed units he considers:
some of them are truly horrible in that regard and -- by FCC rules --
they are *not allowed* to interfere with licensed services; however,
many manufacturers would rather save a few dollars on every unit and
*hope* they can fix the ones that cause trouble without spending too
much on those specific ones.

Perce

[recycl...@gmail.com]

On Monday, June 17, 2013 6:19:40 PM UTC-7, Ashton Crusher wrote:

Maybe, instead, you should ask if you will be able to buy parts for it without having to show a state HVAC license.

[Ashton Crusher]

On Sat, 22 Jun 2013 18:38:11 -0700 (PDT), recycl...@gmail.com
wrote:

The only thing I've ever heard anyone needing an HVAC license for is
buying freon. I've never had problems in the past buying parts for
DIY repairs on AC systems. I don't plan on doing anything
particularly "heavy duty" in the way of repairs.

[The Daring Dufas]

The CB era was a fun time for me with regard to RFI. I have a First
Class commercial FCC license and I tracked down all sorts of those
critters and kilt them. ^_^

TDD

[gregz]

I have not done anything since last summer. Have not been using the cb.
Last summer found terrible noise from fan system. I did put some filtering
in, but it's still high. Then there is the led light supplies, then there
is that very noisy sears drill charger. That was tricky to find, plugged
but no battery. Always something. I was walking up and down street finding
that charger. It was radiating at wavelength intervals. Not that strong at
the charger.

Greg

[gregz]

Fan noise sounds like a train, tornado. Only starts noise at some rpm, then
you can hear the noise increasing pitch.

Greg

[Tony Hwang]

Hmmm,
I am a HAM for half a century. My furnace has ECM blower motor(a DC
motor) I took care of RFI concern my self with a kit. Brand of the unit
is Carrier. Motor itself seldom fails, the control module does. I have
10 yr. P&L coverage but I can fix the module most likely if it fails.
Another DC motor is not VS but it has speed taps like older PSC motors.

[Percival P. Cassidy]

It's my understanding that the manufacturers often have an
interference-suppression kit that they will send free of charge, but the
consumer will still have to pay somebody to install that kit if s/he is
not willing or able to do it him/herself.

Perce

[rcampos...@yahoo.com]

I'm going to have an A/C central heat & air conditioner unit install it's going to be a 3 ton unit inside & outside both being replaced my sq feet in my house is like 1100 square ft .they priced me a total of $ 6,903.00 that includes checking and sealing and replacing any ducting that is damage. Is this a good price?

[rcampos...@yahoo.com]

Are Daiken central heat & air great units to have installed when replacing central units?

[Bill]

rcampos...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I'm going to have an A/C central heat & air conditioner unit install it's going to be a 3 ton unit inside & outside both being replaced my sq feet in my house is like 1100 square ft .they priced me a total of $ 6,903.00 that includes checking and sealing and replacing any ducting that is damage. Is this a good price?

Did they come look the place over before giving you an estimate? Maybe
get a second estimate.
Location, location, location...

[gfre...@aol.com]

On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 19:55:25 -0700 (PDT), rcampos...@yahoo.com
wrote:

>I'm going to have an A/C central heat & air conditioner unit install it's going to be a 3 ton unit inside & outside both being replaced my sq feet in my house is like 1100 square ft .they priced me a total of $ 6,903.00 that includes checking and sealing and replacing any ducting that is damage. Is this a good price?

That sounds like a pretty big unit for that size house. What else is
going on?
I had a similar Carrier installed here for about $5500 but I did some
of the removal work myself.

[Hot]

On 04/04/2017 10:55 PM, rcampos...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I'm going to have an A/C central heat & air conditioner unit install it's going to be a 3 ton unit inside & outside both being replaced my sq feet in my house is like 1100 square ft .they priced me a total of $ 6,903.00 that includes checking and sealing and replacing any ducting that is damage. Is this a good price?

https://www.ecomfort.com/cooling/goodman-central-air-packages.html

[Ed Pawlowski]

I was thinking the same thing, unless he lives in an area that gets very
hot.I always wonder if proper calculations are done. In my area, that
size could be done with half that size.

Too big a unit will make it cooler but too humid. Uncomfortable.

[trader_4]

+1 on the 3 tons for 1100 sq ft sizing sounding wrong.

I have 40 years total experience with Ruud and Rheem, which are built
by the same company. Very satisfied. I replaced the last AC when it
was 24 years old. It was still working, only thing I ever had to do
to it was put in a hard start kit.

[gfre...@aol.com]

Yup I am running 3 tons in an old 1660 sq/ft house in Florida (CBS
with minimal insulation and big "Miami" windows)

[Oren]

On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 19:55:25 -0700 (PDT), rcampos...@yahoo.com
wrote:

>I'm going to have an A/C central heat & air conditioner unit install it's going to be a 3 ton unit inside & outside both being replaced my sq feet in my house is like 1100 square ft .they priced me a total of $ 6,903.00 that includes checking and sealing and replacing any ducting that is damage. Is this a good price?

You don't mention the SEER rating or if it is a matching unit
(furnace/compressor). As others say, it seems rather large for the
home size.

[Tony944]

wrote in message
news:7877eaf7-e9b9-4de1...@googlegroups.com...

I am not HVAC guy but the square footage do not mean anything, However it
would be nice to know, Insulation, Living space in Cubic footage and house
configuration with size of windows, doors ETC. Your location all of this it
must be known before someone can comment to your question.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 19:58:09 -0700 (PDT), rcampos...@yahoo.com
wrote:

>Are Daiken central heat & air great units to have installed when replacing central units?

Back to the beginning - a 3 ton unit is WAY too big for a 1000 sq ft
house. Whoever is selling you that should be strung up and taught
their business.. It will never run long enough to effectively reduce
humidity.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Wed, 5 Apr 2017 12:19:19 -0700, "Tony944" <ase...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

You are right - you are not an AC guy. Sadly half the guys selling AC
aren't AC guys either. It would have to be a pretty special situation
to require 3 tons of AC in a house with 1000 square feet of living
space - and if that case exists, he will be MUCH farther ahead
remedying the situations that make that gross overkill necessary. He
WILL get a lot more comfort for his dollar - both installion and
operating cosr.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

I just ran a basic whole house manual J on my 2 story house with
finished basement in Waterloo. I was conservative - going for the low
end of insulation, overestimating window space etc to make sure my
requirements would err on the high side, not the low. The house is
635sq ft per floor with 7.5 foot ceilings, brick bottom, aluminum
siding on top.

Comes out to 24516 heating load and 8746 cooling.
The furnace I installed 14 years ago is a 35000/50000 btu 2 stage -
the smallest Tempstar I could buy - and the AC is a 1.5 ton and it
doesn't control humidity as well as I would like because it doesn't
run enough. The furnace runs on low output virtually all the time it
runs - only kicks on high on a REAL cold day when warming up from
setback - if then. It has always been my impressin the furnace is also
oversized - supported by the Manual J calculations..

On REALLY hot humid days (95F and 95%) the AC runs about 50% of the
time - 12 hours out of 24 - mabee up to 14.
On REAlLY cold days - 20F, The furnace might run for 9 hours out of 24

[Wade Garrett]

On 4/4/17 10:55 PM, rcampos...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I'm going to have an A/C central heat & air conditioner unit install it's going to be a 3 ton unit inside & outside both being replaced my sq feet in my house is like 1100 square ft .they priced me a total of $ 6,903.00 that includes checking and sealing and replacing any ducting that is damage. Is this a good price?
>

For only 1100 square feet, you could probably get by with a couple of
window AC units and space heaters :=)

--
Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time or money
making it.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 4/5/2017 7:28 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
> On 4/4/17 10:55 PM, rcampos...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> I'm going to have an A/C central heat & air conditioner unit install
>> it's going to be a 3 ton unit inside & outside both being replaced my
>> sq feet in my house is like 1100 square ft .they priced me a total of
>> $ 6,903.00 that includes checking and sealing and replacing any
>> ducting that is damage. Is this a good price?
>>
>
> For only 1100 square feet, you could probably get by with a couple of
> window AC units and space heaters :=)
>

My upper floor is just over 1,000 sq. ft. I have a 12,000 btu at one
end, 6000 Btu at the other end
The lower level is the same but has a utility area that I don't care to
cool and an 8,000 Btu handles it just fine. I really question the need
for 3 ton of cooling for the OP.

[Jax]

On 04/05/2017 08:36 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> I really question the need for 3 ton of cooling for the OP.

Yah, if I needed 3 ton of cooling for 1100 square foot, I'd be looking
for better insulation.

[Wade Garrett]

If there's attic access, no problem for ceiling insulation. But without
it, how could you improve- short of tearing the place apart?

And what about the walls in either scenario?

--
I never met anyone who didn't have a very smart child. What happens to
these children, you wonder, when they reach adulthood?
- Fran Lebowitz

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Thu, 6 Apr 2017 05:01:52 -0400, Jax <j...@att-global-dialer.net>
wrote:

or closing the windows - or mabee installing a roof !!!!

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Thu, 6 Apr 2017 09:56:54 -0400, Wade Garrett <wa...@cooler.net>
wrote:

>On 4/6/17 5:01 AM, Jax wrote:
>> On 04/05/2017 08:36 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> I really question the need for 3 ton of cooling for the OP.
>>
>> Yah, if I needed 3 ton of cooling for 1100 square foot, I'd be looking
>> for better insulation.
>>
>
>If there's attic access, no problem for ceiling insulation. But without
>it, how could you improve- short of tearing the place apart?
>
>And what about the walls in either scenario?

Do what all the insulation contractors up here do - cut a few vent
holes in the roof- blow in the insulation, and install roof vents.

Walls can be a bit more trouble - but depending on the type and
condition of the siding it is common to remove the siding, cover with
2" Styrofoam SM or equivalent, and stucco or re-side.

[TimR]

On Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 5:11:07 PM UTC-4, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> I just ran a basic whole house manual J on my 2 story house with
> finished basement in Waterloo. I was conservative - going for the low

Ding ding ding! We have a winner. Without a manual J you are just guessing. Install companies always estimate too high, and deliver oversized equipment, which is the worst thing in a humid climate.

[TimR]

If you've done a manual J, and you have a number for what your load is supposed to be, theoretically you could test it.

You could keep track of the run time of your equipment and the degree days, and see if you got it right.

I have never seen this done, in either residential or commercial. That is strange in commercial where you have DDC control and can track actual flows and heat transfer - maybe design engineers don't want to know.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Fri, 7 Apr 2017 08:44:25 -0700 (PDT), TimR <timot...@aol.com>
wrote:

I can monitor my run-time - and do on occaision as a sanity check.
My conclusion is my 35000BTU furnace (on low fire) is slightly
oversized 90% of the winter, and my AC is at least 50% oversized -
just about what the Manual J predicts. I had not run the manual J
untill the other day - and I knew both were oversized when I installed
them.

The furnace, as I noted previosly, was the smallest residential
furnace readilly available when I had it installed, and the AC was a
free unit I installed to replace a 35+ year old unit that was still
working. The free unit was only a couple years old when a neighbour
changed out both furnace and AC for some unknown reason.. I scrapped
mine instead of his. Mine was getting "a bit long in the tooth" and I
figured it would need replacing soon anyway.