Best paint?
Camille Ruggiero
We're in the middle of some painting (one room, backs of stairs, moldings,
etc.). For our semi-gloss, we picked up a gallon of white Glidden at Home
Depot. Any thoughts on this paint? It seems to require a lot of coats to
cover the previous coat, even on top of white primer.
For example, we just pulled up carpeting in the living room/dining room
area, which meant we needed to pull the carpet on the stairs leading up to
the dining room and also up to the 2nd floor. We refinished the hardwood
floor as well as the steps of these two sets of stairs. The backs, however,
we started painting. We spackled and then primed those spackled areas, then
sanded appropriately. However, we did not sand down to the original wood,
so that the lime greed (yuck) paint used by the previous owner remained as
the previous coat on much of the backs of the stairs. The Glidden white
semi-gloss paint we're using seems to have trouble coving either the green
or the white primer. We've already given THREE coats and the green is still
visible! Did we just buy crappy paint?
Anyway, before we continue, thought we'd try to get some knowledgeable
advice. Should we just buy another brand? If so, which brand(s) would you
recommend? We've heard Benjamin Moore is good, but how about Martha
Stewart? (We have a gift certificate to Sears and they carry Martha
Steward.)
Thanks for your thoughts.
Neil Bosdet
advice but I'll give you my opinion based on my sizeable experience.
Dark colours are difficult to cover with white. Period. 3 coats is a
little nasty but not totally surprising. In my experience it pays to go
with premium quality paint. Never cheap on quality on this subject. The
time involved is not worth it and you won't save money. Forget Martha
Stewart paint. I'm sure it's fantastic but at the price it is, it should be
liquid gold. Benjamin Moore is absolutely excellent and probably would
cover your green paint in 2 coats. Go with premium quality paints (Martha
is fine if the price is better than BM). Once you find a paint (quality
wise) you like then stick with it. It pays for itself in the end.
Neil
ben
I'm no expert, but I recently successfully painted very dark wood paneling
with a bright white paint. I can't imagine this is any easier than covering
a previous dark paint color. To do this, I used two coats of Zinsser 1-2-3
primer and then only needed one topcoat of Sherwin-Williams' SuperPaint.
There were also black painted grooves in the paneling--I did have to primer
these with another coat, but the entire surface is now a gleaming white with
no hint of the old dark paneling (other than texture).
good luck,
ben
"Camille Ruggiero" <disa...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
-G.
know, it doesn't cover very well.
It may cost a few extra buck per gallon for Benjamin Moore, or Sherwin-Williams,
but you'll save in the long run.
Make sure you have a good quality brush too.
HTH
-G.
Camille Ruggiero wrote:
--
And now... Dumb Laws...
In California:
No vehicle without a driver may exceed 60 miles per hour.
William Hughey
the best price-performer. I've never used their brand but have used lots of
Glidden and never had to use more than two coats. Are you using oil-base or
water base enamel and what kind of brush are you using? Some brushes spread
paint too thin and leave it streakey, resulting in the old color bleeding
through. There are specific brushes for each type of enamel and they are not
cheap! My brother is a painter by trade and uses brushes that cost $25 each.
He finds this reduces the number of coats and provides better application. By
the way, I just recently painted a room using Monarch paint which is a
bottom-of-the line builders grade paint. It covered the room in one coat using
a long-nap, lambs-wool roller. Of course painting walls with latex is not the
same as enameling wood, which has its own special requirements.
Regards,
Bill
Michele Mauro
they're not as good. For our house, which gets painted inside every 4-5
years anyway, a longer lasting coat isn't important, and I only need two
coats if I let hubby put on the first one. <grin>
OTOH, for exterior paints which will be exposed to the elements, I like
to go to a real paint store and pay the extra bucks. There's more prep
work to be done, and more ladder work, and those are two things I don't
want to do any more often than necessary.
Have fun, Michele
--
.
"William Hughey" <whu...@wt.net> wrote in message
news:39CE09AC...@wt.net...
k
Sam wrote:
<beginning of post snipped>
> Also, spend a bit on a good brush.
Could someone explain what constitutes a good brush? I bought a couple of Bakers
because someone told me they were one of the better ones -- expensive, too, I
think it was $16 for the 4". Yet, I lost bristles in the fresh paint the second
time I used it -- did I get a defect, or just buy the wrong one? Also, what is
the difference between the natural bristle brushes and the synthetic? I use all
latex paint.
TIA
tre...@sirius.com
>We spackled and then primed those spackled areas, then sanded
>appropriately. However, we did not sand down to the original wood,
Good for you for prepping thoroughly, and don't worry about not
sanding down to the original wood.
>The Glidden white semi-gloss paint we're using seems to have trouble
>coving either the green or the white primer. We've already given
>THREE coats and the green is still visible! Did we just buy crappy
>paint?
Glidden is not the best paint, but regardless, it can be hard to cover
darker colors with white. There are stain blocking primers that give
you a flat, white base on which to put any color. I especially like
Zinsser's BIN shellac and 123 acrylic, but all good paint
manufacturers have a line of stain blocking primers.
How is the paint going on? Are you rolling or brushing? Are you seeing
green through streaks, or does the whole white surface just have a
subtle greenish hue to it?
If the area is well covered with paint (you're not seeing streaks of
green), you might consider living with it. If that's impossible (I
know how that goes!), give it a coat of BIN, and then another coat of
paint.
Use the Glidden you have left in places you don't care about, or if
you have a lot of it, get your money back.
>Anyway, before we continue, thought we'd try to get some knowledgeable
>advice. Should we just buy another brand? If so, which brand(s) would you
>recommend? We've heard Benjamin Moore is good, but how about Martha
>Stewart? (We have a gift certificate to Sears and they carry Martha
>Steward.)
Benjamin Moore and Sherwin-Williams are excellent brands, but always
make sure to get their "premium" lines. They carry a range of paints
for both people who care about short-term money and people who care
about long-term quality. Still, their low-end paint is probably as
good or better than Glidden.
Stay away from Martha Steward, Ralph Lauren, Ricky Martin or any other
paint that uses a celebrity to sell itself.
Engineering
few years now, and no sign of breakdown.
--
Jon Endres, P.E.
West Mountain Engineering Co.
w...@sover.net
k <khe...@nospamherepleaseskypoint.com> wrote in message
news:39CE1612...@nospamherepleaseskypoint.com...
Roger Shoaf
Good brushes hold more paint per dunk, drip less, and apply the paint much
smother. My favorite brand is Purdy.
--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.
Buck Turgidson
turkey.
TinMan1332
>they're not as good. For our house, which gets painted inside every 4-5
>years anyway, a longer lasting coat isn't important
That Wallymart paint is Sherwin Williams. As best as I have been able to
deduce... the interior paints are closest to SW's ProMar 400 line (contractor
pricing is within cents of wallymart's price too).
The exterior paint is closest to SW's A-100, but it is a different formula.
While most of the wallymart paint seems decent... color uniformity on custom
mixed paints is still a problem for department stores.
The color additive (tinting agents) require constant mixing, they need to be
fresh and the tanks need to be checked and refilled so they don't run out in
the middle of a tint job. The nozzels (for each and every tint) need to be
cleaned on a regular basis. The person adding the tint must follow the formula
exactly and be accurate with the measurement calabrations of the pump. Of of
these are problem areas for department store paint.
After saying all that, one wallymart in my berg has a real paint store employee
working the paint department weekdays during daytime 1st shift hours and does
an excellent job with all of the above. Unfortunatly, this seems to be a rare
situation in most chain department stores (perhaps excluding Sears).
davefr
Use Purdy or Wooster brand. I like the Purdy Nylox for acrylics.
Make sure you clean them properly and they'll last a long time and
give you good value.
davefr
live in the NW than try Miller Super Paint. These represent good
value but they aren't cheap on a per gallon basis.
Avoid Home Depot, Sears, Glidden and the other homeowner quality
paints. These paints are usually so lacking in solids and titanium
dioxide that you end up spending more becasue they need lots of coats
for coverage.
When it comes to paint, you get what you pay for.
On Mon, 25 Sep 2000 00:51:30 GMT, Tek...@netcarrier.com wrote:
>
>On 23-Sep-2000, "Camille Ruggiero" <disa...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>> Looking for thoughts from you experienced painters out there.
>>
>> We're in the middle of some painting (one room, backs of stairs, moldings,
>> etc.). For our semi-gloss, we picked up a gallon of white Glidden at Home
>> Depot. Any thoughts on this paint? It seems to require a lot of coats to
>> cover the previous coat, even on top of white prim
>
>Anyone have any thoughts on the Sears Ulta exterior paint? I wonder if the
>pros bother with Sears stuff?
>
>Tekkie
davefr
tint it to half the formula of the top coat. Than use Pratt and
Lambert Accolade and you should be done.
You can also get good results from Benjamin Moore, Sherwinn Williams,
or a quality regional paint. (in the NW we have Miller Paint and
their top of the line comes close to Pratt but it's 2/3 the price).
Avoid the mass merchants, discount stores, and homecenters when
buying paint. (they hit the low price points by sacrificing solids.
that means more coats are needed.)
tre...@sirius.com
>"R" sez he has not bought a brush in "awhile" and I believe him <G>. The brush
>of choice for latex and acrylic paints is a nylon/poly blend. The A.B.M.A. site
>mentions "Nylon/polyester" and is refering to this blend (not an either or
>choice). I just wanted to point this out in case anyone was not clear about
>this.
Are you pretty sure about this? I ask because I have brushes labeled
on their covers "Polyester," "Nylon and/or Polyester Blend," and "100%
Nylon," and the bristles look a little different on all three. The
polyester one has rather thick brisles that really look like plastic,
while the 100% nylon one has thin bristles that look almost like hair.
The second brush is somewhere in the middle.
Tek...@netcarrier.com
On 23-Sep-2000, "Camille Ruggiero" <disa...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Looking for thoughts from you experienced painters out there.
>
> We're in the middle of some painting (one room, backs of stairs, moldings,
> etc.). For our semi-gloss, we picked up a gallon of white Glidden at Home
> Depot. Any thoughts on this paint? It seems to require a lot of coats to
nos...@worldnet.att.net
You can't afford to buy a cheap brush (or cheap paint).
[ALL contractor grade paint is cheap paint. However, the term
contractor grade often denotes quality brushes.]
I haven't bought a brush in a long time and there may have been some
changes, esp. with synthetic brushes.
I prefer a natural china bristle brush with long bristles and lots of
flagging (split ends that help hold paint) for oil based paint. I
would never use this type brush for a water based paint.
I prefer nylon bristles for water based paints. Again long bristles
with split ends.
Polyester brushes may have improved, but I found them too stiff for a
"brush mark free" finish and only like them for painting a hot surface
(e.g., metal gutters in mid summer) where nylon will get too limp.
...
The American Brush Manufacturers Association says:
"For water-based coatings (latex, acrylic, waterborne, or
water-based), choose a nylon/polyester (synthetic) brush.
Nylon/polyester brushes are durable (so they're great for painting
rough surfaces), they maintain their stiffness in humid painting
conditions, and they clean the easiest, Actually, you can't go wrong
with a high-quality nylon/polyester brush because they can be used
with all paints, water-based or oil-based.
"However, for oil-based coatings (alkyd, oil, solvent-borne, or
oil-based) your best choice is a natural bristle brush. Natural
bristle has unique properties that are difficult to duplicate
synthetically. Bristle comes in many different lengths and thickness'
to produce a brush that holds a lot of paint. Bristle also has the
softest tips for the smoothest finish."
...
This site contains lots of information about what makes up brush
quality
http://www.paintstore.com/archives/300.htm
...
Painters tend to like the brand of brush and paint they first learned
with (and are reluctant to change, or even consider a change).
PPG, Wooster, and Purdy make good paint brushes. They may each have
several quality levels though - but the best.
This site tells you how to keep your expensive brushes and rollers
forever (well ... for a long time). Always store a brush in its cover
to keep its shape.
http://www.paintstore.com/pwc/0900/utopia.html
R
...
nos...@worldnet.att.net
You can't afford to buy a cheap brush (or cheap paint). [ALL
contractor grade paint is cheap paint. However, the term contractor
grade often denotes quality brushes.]
I haven't bought a brush in a long time and there may have been some
changes, esp. with synthetic brushes.
I prefer a natural china bristle brush with long bristles and lots of
flagging (split ends - that helps hold paint) for oil based paint. I
would never use this type brush for a water based paint.
I prefer a nylon brush for water based paints. Again long bristles
with split ends.
...
...
PPG, Wooster, and Purdy are some make good paint brushes. They may
each have several quality levels though - but their best.
Michele Mauro
(I'm not familiar with SW lines)? If so, that'd save me a few bucks when
we go to paint the house this winter (waiting for weather to cool down
here in FL).
Thanks, Michele
--
.
"TinMan1332" <tinma...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000924194444...@ng-bk1.aol.com...
> >I like Wal-Mart's interior paints... I've tried the HD/Lowes brands,
and
> >they're not as good. For our house, which gets painted inside every
4-5
> >years anyway, a longer lasting coat isn't important
>
> That Wallymart paint is Sherwin Williams. As best as I have been able
to
> deduce... the interior paints are closest to SW's ProMar 400 line
(contractor
> pricing is within cents of wallymart's price too).
>
> The exterior paint is closest to SW's A-100, but it is a different
formula.
>
> While most of the wallymart paint seems decent... color uniformity on
custom
> mixed paints is still a problem for department stores.
>
> The color additive (tinting agents) require constant mixing, they need
to be
> fresh and the tanks need to be checked and refilled so they don't run
out in
> the middle of a tint job. The nozzels (for each and every tint) need
to be
> cleaned on a regular basis. The person adding the tint must follow the
formula
> exactly and be accurate with the measurement calabrations of the pump.
Of of
Peritt
section a while back. They test for coverage, mildew resistance, toughness,
etc. While I can not recall their specific comments I would go to your local
library for a copy. I would go for their more objective review over any
contractor/painter's more subjective review.
My $0.02.
TinMan1332
>(I'm not familiar with SW lines)? If so, that'd save me a few bucks when
>we go to paint the house this winter (waiting for weather to cool down
>here in FL).
Well, what I am saying is that wallymart paint is _made_ by S.W. I have used
their former "top of the line" exterior paint on several projects (owned by the
same landlord who was insistant on using this paint). That former product was
called "House Beautiful" and the packaging differed from wallymart's Color
Place line.
Recently, wallymart has phased out the House Beautiful line and now everything
is under the Color Place label. I do not know if it's the same product with a
different label or a complete different formula (it's still made by S.W.).
I was pleased with the overall performance of the House Beautiful line and it
did indeed "work" and look just like SW's A-100. It has been over two years
since I did the first of the exterior work with that product and the paint is
performing very very well.
So, if the Color Place line does as well, it would be an OK choice. But, I have
no information (as of yet) as to any changes that may (or may not) have been
made during the "re-branding" (it could just be a lable change, but I can't
confirm).
You might just want to stick with your original decision to go directly to a
real paint store for the added insurance of a quality product. If your home is
the basic Slab & Slider Florida home, the cost difference will be minimal
anyway
st...@lunch.spam
my kitchen with it 2 years ago and am satisfied. I'd like to touch up
some areas, but WalMart has discontinued it. Where can I find it? I've
searched the web; don't see it anywhere.
Thanks--
Paul
TinMan1332
>with split ends.
>
>Polyester brushes may have improved, but I found them too stiff for a
>"brush mark free" finish and only like them for painting a hot surface
>(e.g., metal gutters in mid summer) where nylon will get too limp.
>
>...
>
>The American Brush Manufacturers Association says:
>
> http://www.abma.org/paint.htm
>
>"For water-based coatings (latex, acrylic, waterborne, or
>water-based), choose a nylon/polyester (synthetic) brush.
>Nylon/polyester brushes are
"R" sez he has not bought a brush in "awhile" and I believe him <G>. The brush
TinMan1332
However, while the cost of some manufacturers interior "contractor paints" is
indeed "cheap"...some of these paints (from quality manufacturers) offer
several advantages.
One, is touch-up. Most manufacturers offer contractor grade paint pre-tinted in
bulk quantities. These vary little from batch to batch.
Two, is they are high in solids that give good coverage and hide.
On the downside, most (excluding semi gloss) don't have much resistance to
scrubbing or washing. The solids are _not_ finely ground and will destroy a
paint gun tip pretty quickly.
Exterior "contractor grade paints" are very short lived and are the fodder of
tract house builders/painters where low cost in construction is the only
factor.
TinMan1332
I will repeat what I mentioned in my other post in this thread:
Recently, wallymart has phased out the House Beautiful line and now everything
is under the Color Place label. I do not know if it's the same product with a
different label or a complete different formula (it's still made by S.W.).
I have no information (as of yet) as to any changes that may (or may not) have
been
made during the "re-branding" (it could just be a lable change, but I can't
confirm).
Since that post/comment I have discovered that the House Beautiful line was a
product of Hearst and was not a Sherwin Williams product.
While Color Place products once existed side by side on shelves with House
Beautiful... they now have given way to the Sherwin Williams' products that
replace them in the "top of the line" catagory that House Beautiful used to
garnish at wallymart.
S.W.'s Color Place replacements are indeed a whole different animal and the
paint has _not_ simply been re-labled.
S.W. now handles not only the paints but the entire sundry line for wallymarts
paint departments.
As far as where to find or what to do... try this "Paint Information Hotline"
number:
1-800-734-4242 between 8AM to 5PM anywhere in the U.S. That is the most recent
number I have for House Beautiful products.
TinMan1332
>Are you pretty sure about this? I ask because I have brushes labeled
>on their covers "Polyester," "Nylon and/or Polyester Blend," and "100%
>Nylon," and the bristles look a little different on all three. The
>polyester one has rather thick brisles that really look like plastic,
>while the 100% nylon one has thin bristles that look almost like hair.
>The second brush is somewhere in the middle.
Am I sure about the nylon/poly blend rapidly becoming the most popular? Then
the answer is yes. Both Nylon brushes and polyester brushes are made and their
uses overlap and have some differences.
The blend brush is the most prefered for acrylic use and looks nothing like a
nylon brush and seems closer to a poly brush (in outward looks). However that
"look" seems to vary from maker to maker as to nylon or polyester but all the
blend brushes look about the same.
As always, how well the tip is exploded and the bristle count is important. The
quality of the binding is important too.
My guess is that the poly adds additional life to the nylon/poly blend brushes.
But, I could be wrong.
Paul Broussard
>
> I rarely buy anything without checking out Consumer Reports. They had a paint
> section a while back. They test for coverage, mildew resistance, toughness,
> etc. While I can not recall their specific comments I would go to your local
> library for a copy. I would go for their more objective review over any
> contractor/painter's more subjective review.
I don't know if you would call our reviews subjective. I can agree with
your statement, but quality painters choose paints for basically the
same reasons homeowners do, with slight differences.
What everyone should realize is the weight CR puts on varying aspects of
a paint's quality. Time and time again I see references to their tests
taken out of context. For example, the WalMart brand that rated highly
was one specific interior brand, a satin House Beautiful, I believe. It
seems everyone has taken this to mean that all of their paints are good
price performers. This is not the case.
I've used some paints from big boxes before, but out of all the lines
they carry, only a handful I can rate as being OK.
When we say top lines from the major paint stores as being good
all-round paints, we are referring to the whole process, from getting
your color down right the first time, consistent batch matching, good
coverage, good hide, and ease of application. Nowhere in CR's tests do
they mention color matching skills (or lack thereof) of the big boxes,
ease of application, and support in 10 years if you need some touch-up
paint, not to mention the wealth of accurate information the paint
stores offer as a benefit.
I like to compare paint shopping to any other type of purchase. Do your
homework, and you may be able to save some money, but if you value your
time, go get your paint from a paint store. You can rest assured that
the top line of paint from a paint store will be pretty darn good, if
not excellent. I can't see how paying $5 more a gallon is worth hours
debating the merits of a cheaper paint from a home center.
--
Broussard Paint Contractors, friend of Bill's
http://www.broussardpaint.bigstep.com/
Need a painter? http://www.qpainter.com
NOSPAMBOB
willt absorb the oil components in oil based paint and make bristles more
flexible. Synthetic bristles wont absorb water and become soggy but retain
resiliency (as I've read here). Whichever one preload the brush with the
proper solvent PRIOR to dipping in the paint to keep the paint near the ferrule
from drying and making the brush stiffer also helps clean up.
In article <96981710...@webhost1.syix.com>, "Roger Shoaf"
<sh...@nospamsyix.com> writes:
>Natural bristle you use on oil based paints only. For latex use polyester.
>Good brushes hold more paint per dunk, drip less, and apply the paint much
>smother. My favorite brand is Purdy.
>
Name works for E-mail
janet bauer
paint to cover the robin's egg blue walls in my house. This was applied by
amatuers with cheap short-nap Walmart rollers. Looks good and cleans easily.
About $10-12 a gallon (depending on sale).
William Hughey wrote:
> A few years ago, Consumer Reports tested paint and concluded that Wal-Mart's was
> the best price-performer. I've never used their brand but have used lots of
> Glidden and never had to use more than two coats. Are you using oil-base or
> water base enamel and what kind of brush are you using? Some brushes spread
> paint too thin and leave it streakey, resulting in the old color bleeding
> through. There are specific brushes for each type of enamel and they are not
> cheap! My brother is a painter by trade and uses brushes that cost $25 each.
> He finds this reduces the number of coats and provides better application. By
> the way, I just recently painted a room using Monarch paint which is a
> bottom-of-the line builders grade paint. It covered the room in one coat using
> a long-nap, lambs-wool roller. Of course painting walls with latex is not the
> same as enameling wood, which has its own special requirements.
>
> Regards,
>
> Bill
>
Michele Mauro
least the name of it).
It's not quite the slab and slider home most are... at least it wasn't.
There was no back door when we moved in (just a side door out from the
garage), so we installed a slider where the dining room window used to
be. <grin>
The house is concrete block too... it's got several layers of light
colored paint on it, most of which is still adhered well. A good wash
down should get it ready for when the weather cools down and we can
paint.
Thanks, Michele
--
.
"TinMan1332" <tinma...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000924230755...@ng-ba1.aol.com...