How to remove substance holding pipe in place on water heater pressure relief valve?
Doc
and between the section of copper drain tube going to the coupling
between the tube and the valve os some kind of silver colored
substance that needs to be removed to allow the coupling to turn
freely to back out of the valve. I thought it was solder, but hitting
it with a butane torch doesn't melt it. Trying to turn the coupling
turns and bends the whole pipe and connecting elbow and other tubing
and I get the sense I'll break something before this stuff lets go.
What is this stuff and how do I remove it?
Thanks!
Speedy Jim
It may *still* be solder and your little torch isn't big enough
to heat all that brass/copper.
Forget about re-using the male adapter in the relief valve;
cut the copper pipe somewhere convenient and get a few new
fittings, including a coupling.
Jim
Doc
> It may *still* be solder and your little torch isn't big enough
> to heat all that brass/copper.
It's not melting even in the places where it's fully exposed. Scraping
it with a knife, it peels away and looks shiny like I would expect
solder to, but doesn't seem to respond to heat. This torch is hot
enough to melt lead with ease, I would think it's more than up to the
task of melting solder.
>
> Forget about re-using the male adapter in the relief valve;
> cut the copper pipe somewhere convenient and get a few new
> fittings, including a coupling.
>
Well, this same stuff is used at every joint, at some point I still
have to loosen it up.
Jim Wilson
Sounds like "silver solder." For starters, I would try a MAPP torch. MAPP
burns much hotter than propane.
Jim
db...@sprynet.com
try mapp gas or an acetelene torch..... for this joint just cut back on
the copper pipe and get the fittings you need and then get some lead
free solder at the hardware store... think of getting a Mapp gas torch,
not much more than a reg. propane torch..........
Gary Slusser
"Doc" <docsa...@yahoo.com> wrote
You did say "butane" torch. Solder is silver in color and you have to
heat the fitting and the tubing hot enough to melt the solder between
them and copper sucks up heat; so it takes more than a little heat. You
can't solder/unsolder with any water in the line.
Doc
> try mapp gas or an acetelene torch..... for this joint just cut back on
> the copper pipe and get the fittings you need and then get some lead
> free solder at the hardware store... think of getting a Mapp gas torch,
> not much more than a reg. propane torch..........
I got a Mapp gas torch and gave it a pretty good blasting, using
various flame intensities and different parts of the flame, this stuff
still doesn't want to let loose. I might not be doing it right but I
don't see what I could do any differently. As far as water being in
the line, well, since this is a non pressure drainage line going from
the relief valve, and the water is turned off, I assume that would
mean the pipe isn't filled with water.
I guess I'll end up hacking the thing off close to the neck of the
coupling, and cutting the remaing piece up the middle and peeling it
back I suppose. But I'd still like to know what this stuff is. I'll
probably take the pieces over to a plumbing shop and see if they can
id it. Maybe they'll show me the right way to torch it if I'm simply
not doing it right.
Gary Slusser
"Doc" <docsa...@yahoo.com> wrote
The only reason to go to a hotter torch is speed, soldering technique is
much more important; that's as long as the torch is capable of reaching
the heat required for the size of the tubing/fittings. Propane is
usually sufficient for up to 1.25" copper and with proper technique 1.5"
but that's the limit.
IIRC you said you were replacing the T/P valve due to it leaking which
accounts for water in the line and in the valve. Heating causes the
water to expand and turn to steam which can't get out since the line
turns down toward the floor. So as you try to unsolder the steam escapes
around the tubing and fitting surfaces. You may have overheated things
to where they won't come apart now, that's not all that hard to do. Or
the tubing has burrs which weren't cleaned and the fitting was forced on
to begin with.
Do a newsgroup search for soldering to learn proper technique. ITMT cut
the pipe close to the valve and remove the valve and install the new
one. Then solder a new piece of tubing as long as the horizontal is now
into a new male and cool it then thread it into the new valve. Then
solder the elbow to the vertical pipe and cool it. Then solder the elbow
to the tail piece from the valve after wrapping a wet rag around the
tail piece between the elbow and new valve so the heat doesn't migrate
to the valve. This is not pressurized water line so solder it as
practice for the future. As long as it doesn't fall off and you can't
pull it apart yer done.
Doc
> Heating causes the
> water to expand and turn to steam which can't get out since the line
> turns down toward the floor. So as you try to unsolder the steam escapes
> around the tubing and fitting surfaces.
Hmm...doesn't this simply go down to a no-pressure drain outlet
somewhere? The water is turned off so there's no flow throught the
pressure valve. I would have thought the water would have drained
out. Or can even a small amount of water pooling in the pipe cause
problems?
You may have overheated things
> to where they won't come apart now, that's not all that hard to do. Or
> the tubing has burrs which weren't cleaned and the fitting was forced on
> to begin with.
>
That makes sense, but here's the thing. There's a big lump of this
stuff that's on the outside of this joint, and it doesn't melt.
Shouldn't this stuff at some point melt just like tin-based solder
does with a soldering iron?
I appreciate the info will definitely follow up on it.
John
melt when it is over a gas flame? That is because the metal
is at the boiling point of water [212 degrees Fahrenheit at
sea level] until it "boils dry" and then you start to melt
the pot. You have a similar situation when trying to solder
pipes which still contain ANY water -- until your torch
evaporates ALL of the water you never heat the pipe above
the boiling point of water.
In article
<f0c1bc20.01122...@posting.google.com>,
docsa...@yahoo.com says...
Gary Slusser
"Doc" <docsa...@yahoo.com> wrote
> >
> > Heating causes the
> > water to expand and turn to steam which can't get out since the line
> > turns down toward the floor. So as you try to unsolder the steam
escapes
> > around the tubing and fitting surfaces.
>
> Hmm...doesn't this simply go down to a no-pressure drain outlet
> somewhere? The water is turned off so there's no flow throught the
> pressure valve. I would have thought the water would have drained
> out. Or can even a small amount of water pooling in the pipe cause
> problems?
It (the horizontal) doesn't go down hill unless it's pitched down and
away from the valve and that's not possible with a male soldered to a
piece of tubing. The threads keep things straight and mostly the
soldered joint does too and ALL depends on the floor the heater is
sitting on. The smallest amount of water screws up unsoldering and
soldering operations.
> You may have overheated things
> > to where they won't come apart now, that's not all that hard to do.
Or
> > the tubing has burrs which weren't cleaned and the fitting was
forced on
> > to begin with.
> >
>
> That makes sense, but here's the thing. There's a big lump of this
> stuff that's on the outside of this joint, and it doesn't melt.
> Shouldn't this stuff at some point melt just like tin-based solder
> does with a soldering iron?
Maybe that's a big lump of solder someone that couldn't solder built up
there doing things themselves. It should melt if you hold a flame tip
just off the stuff and in one place long enough. But not if there's any
water in the tubing.