> wrote:

> >I am proud I am a effective complainer and rarely lose a issue.....

> >If more people complained loudly customer service would improve

> >dramatically.......

> Just don't complain while you are upset or mad. Take a break, collect

> your thoughts, relax  and make an honest presentation of the facts.

> I've listened to thousands and thousands of complaints. The louder a

> person gets, the calmer  I get.  It brings down the stillness.

> Well it broke on a tuesday, has been well over a week, and latest
> prediction is friday, thats 10 days. without hot water:( what happened
> to over nite shipping and warranty calls come first?

> I suggest I go along and talk to the actual sears store manager for
> monroeville PA, this store is scheduled to close.

> I want to be honest with the store manager, you didnt have parts in
> stock:( you are short repair people adding days to calls. If you dont
> give a complete refund I have a friend in the media, and Sears will be
> featured, not in a good way.....

> > Well it broke on a tuesday, has been well over a week, and latest
> > prediction is friday, thats 10 days. without hot water:( what happened
> > to over nite shipping and warranty calls come first?

> > I suggest I go along and talk to the actual sears store manager for
> > monroeville PA, this store is scheduled to close.

> So the store manager will shortly be losing his or her job.

> > I want to be honest with the store manager, you didnt have parts in
> > stock:( you are short repair people adding days to calls. If you dont
> > give a complete refund I have a friend in the media, and Sears will be
> > featured, not in a good way.....

> Since the store manager is shortly going to be unemployed, I doubt
> s/he will much care.

> > Is that what you want?:)

> Sears was bought out by a hedge fund guy who combined them with Kmart
> into a holdings company. He has absolutely zero interest in growing
> retail operations. He's taking what profits he's getting from them
> (Kmart is doing extremely well)

> The long and short of it is: the head honcho isn't interested in
> making Sears better or keeping its dwindling customer base satisfied.
> The people working under him suffer serious morale issues as a result
> (not to mention knowing their jobs are gradually going away, as in the
> case of the PA store manager). Some of them still strive to provide
> good customer service - but if doing so costs the store money, they
> will face repercussions from upper management. Others know they can
> get away with providing poor customer service, so they have no guilt
> about doing so.

> I've got a sister in Sears management who has been with them for over
> thirty years. When a customer comes to her with a complaint, she'll do
> what she can, but often she can't do much more without putting her job
> on the line, and that's a line she won't cross. In those cases, the
> customer usually threatens to contact the head office in Chicago. She
> encourages them to do so. You may want to try that, because the store
> manager may not have the power (anymore) to make things right.

>>The Kmart here is a real mess.  I rarely go there, even
>>though it's close.   They always have long lines at the
>>checkouts.

>The K Mart in our town never has long lines.  They can barely get
>enough people in there to make a short line.  The only reason I ever
>go there is to buy something I know is "name brand" quality, not cheap
>China crap that most of their merchandise is.  The advantage is, the
>Wal Mart parking lot will be mobbed, the K Mart lot and store is empty
>so quick in and out.  

>>> The Kmart here is a real mess.  I rarely go there, even
>>> though it's close.   They always have long lines at the
>>> checkouts.

>> The K Mart in our town never has long lines.  They can barely get
>> enough people in there to make a short line.  The only reason I ever
>> go there is to buy something I know is "name brand" quality, not cheap
>> China crap that most of their merchandise is.  The advantage is, the
>> Wal Mart parking lot will be mobbed, the K Mart lot and store is empty
>> so quick in and out.

> I get my prescriptions at kmart, as well as most of my clothing. Never
> really crowded. Also often get pizza in the store store. I don't think
> there is any food at my walmart. I learned to like the old walmart, and
> quickly learned to hate the new.
> BUT, I bought a 120 ahr battery at walmart, and equivalent at kmart cost
> $140 vs walmart $90.

> Greg

>>>> The Kmart here is a real mess.  I rarely go there, even
>>>> though it's close.   They always have long lines at the
>>>> checkouts.

>>> The K Mart in our town never has long lines.  They can barely get
>>> enough people in there to make a short line.  The only reason I ever
>>> go there is to buy something I know is "name brand" quality, not cheap
>>> China crap that most of their merchandise is.  The advantage is, the
>>> Wal Mart parking lot will be mobbed, the K Mart lot and store is empty
>>> so quick in and out.

>> I get my prescriptions at kmart, as well as most of my clothing. Never
>> really crowded. Also often get pizza in the store store. I don't think
>> there is any food at my walmart. I learned to like the old walmart, and
>> quickly learned to hate the new.
>> BUT, I bought a 120 ahr battery at walmart, and equivalent at kmart cost
>> $140 vs walmart $90.

>> Greg

>I hate walmart inconsistency. They carry stuff. I shopped at walmart and
>all they had were gas containers. Kmart had water, diesel, kerosene, gas.
>Stuff you should carry, vs stuff they want to carry.

>Greg

>>  What I dislike most about the big "W" is they will target a product
>>and guarantee nobody will undersell them - so soon the only place to
>>buy it is at the big "W". A short time later, they find they are
>>loosing too much money on it - or the supplier finds they cannot
>>afford to supply it at the price the big "W" will pay them for it - so
>>it is no longer supplied - and it is no longer available in the
>>genereal markrtplace.

>The suppliers make dumb decisions too.
>Vlasic pickles
>http://www.fastcompany.com/47593/wal-mart-you-dont-know

>versus Snapper mower
>http://www.fastcompany.com/54763/man-who-said-no-wal-mart

> >>  What I dislike most about the big "W" is they will target a product
> >>and guarantee nobody will undersell them - so soon the only place to
> >>buy it is at the big "W". A short time later, they find they are
> >>loosing too much money on it - or the supplier finds they cannot
> >>afford to supply it at the price the big "W" will pay them for it - so
> >>it is no longer supplied - and it is no longer available in the
> >>genereal markrtplace.

> >The suppliers make dumb decisions too.
> >Vlasic pickles
> >http://www.fastcompany.com/47593/wal-mart-you-dont-know

> >versus Snapper mower
> >http://www.fastcompany.com/54763/man-who-said-no-wal-mart

>   Yup, but when Walmart has effectively killed your market, it's hard
> to say no.

> Everyone's used to buying, say, Vlasic pickles for  $.79  when the
> realistic price is $139, and it's hard to build a market outside of
> Walmart at even a bargan $129 - what's a company going to do???

>>On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 20:27:34 -0500, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

>>>  What I dislike most about the big "W" is they will target a product
>>>and guarantee nobody will undersell them - so soon the only place to
>>>buy it is at the big "W". A short time later, they find they are
>>>loosing too much money on it - or the supplier finds they cannot
>>>afford to supply it at the price the big "W" will pay them for it - so
>>>it is no longer supplied - and it is no longer available in the
>>>genereal markrtplace.

>>The suppliers make dumb decisions too.
>>Vlasic pickles
>>http://www.fastcompany.com/47593/wal-mart-you-dont-know

>>versus Snapper mower
>>http://www.fastcompany.com/54763/man-who-said-no-wal-mart
>  Yup, but when Walmart has effectively killed your market, it's hard
>to say no.

>Everyone's used to buying, say, Vlasic pickles for  $.79  when the
>realistic price is $139, and it's hard to build a market outside of
>Walmart at even a bargan $129 - what's a company going to do???

> >>The Kmart here is a real mess.  I rarely go there, even
> >>though it's close.   They always have long lines at the
> >>checkouts.

> >The K Mart in our town never has long lines.  They can barely get
> >enough people in there to make a short line.  The only reason I ever
> >go there is to buy something I know is "name brand" quality, not cheap
> >China crap that most of their merchandise is.  The advantage is, the
> >Wal Mart parking lot will be mobbed, the K Mart lot and store is empty
> >so quick in and out.

> I moved from the east coast to a Northern California town 19 years ago
> that had a 5-6 year old Walmart and a brand new Kmart across the
> street.  Having grown up with Kmart (Walmart hadn't gotten to New
> England at the time), I of course tried going there.  It was big and
> bright and seemed like there were never more than 20 people in the
> store...and always 10 people in the checkout lines, with never more
> than 2 open.

>1/3 of all suppliers to wall mart go bankrupt in a matter of years.

> >>On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 20:27:34 -0500, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

> >>>  What I dislike most about the big "W" is they will target a product
> >>>and guarantee nobody will undersell them - so soon the only place to
> >>>buy it is at the big "W". A short time later, they find they are
> >>>loosing too much money on it - or the supplier finds they cannot
> >>>afford to supply it at the price the big "W" will pay them for it - so
> >>>it is no longer supplied - and it is no longer available in the
> >>>genereal markrtplace.

> >>The suppliers make dumb decisions too.
> >>Vlasic pickles
> >>http://www.fastcompany.com/47593/wal-mart-you-dont-know

> >>versus Snapper mower
> >>http://www.fastcompany.com/54763/man-who-said-no-wal-mart
> >  Yup, but when Walmart has effectively killed your market, it's hard
> >to say no.

> >Everyone's used to buying, say, Vlasic pickles for  $.79  when the
> >realistic price is $139, and it's hard to build a market outside of
> >Walmart at even a bargan $129 - what's a company going to do???

> I don't blame Wal Mart, all Vlasic had to do was say "no" and refuse
> to sell at a lower price.

> A few years back, one of our biggest customers was Frigidaire.  They
> use similar tactics on their suppliers.  The parts we made for them
> were seasonal.  After year one, we were asked for a 10% price
> reduction.  Their logic was that over the year, we found better and
> faster ways to make their parts.  There is some truth to that and we
> wee able to reduce the price and maintain profits. A couple of years
> later, they sent a letter and asked for a 25% reduction, a rebate for
> the previous year, and longer terms.  We said "no thanks, where do you
> want the tools sent?".

> One of our competitors happily snatched the job from us at the reduced
> price.  Years later, we are still making a profit, they filed
> bankruptcy.  The Frigidaire business is long gone as they moved the
> plant to Mexico the following year.

> More recently, we make a product for a customer that potentially sells
> to Wal Mart.  We sell it for 1.10.  WM said they would buy it at 85�.
> Again, we said no.  Would have been a big order, but with no profit
> and we would  have had to skimp on material.- Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -

>>I am proud I am a effective complainer and rarely lose a issue.....

>>If more people complained loudly customer service would improve
>>dramatically.......

>Just don't complain while you are upset or mad. Take a break, collect
>your thoughts, relax  and make an honest presentation of the facts.

>I've listened to thousands and thousands of complaints. The louder a
>person gets, the calmer  I get.  It brings down the stillness.

>> > Well it broke on a tuesday, has been well over a week, and latest
>> > prediction is friday, thats 10 days. without hot water:( what happened
>> > to over nite shipping and warranty calls come first?

>> > I suggest I go along and talk to the actual sears store manager for
>> > monroeville PA, this store is scheduled to close.

>> So the store manager will shortly be losing his or her job.

>> > I want to be honest with the store manager, you didnt have parts in
>> > stock:( you are short repair people adding days to calls. If you dont
>> > give a complete refund I have a friend in the media, and Sears will be
>> > featured, not in a good way.....

>> Since the store manager is shortly going to be unemployed, I doubt
>> s/he will much care.

>> > Is that what you want?:)

>> Sears was bought out by a hedge fund guy who combined them with Kmart
>> into a holdings company. He has absolutely zero interest in growing
>> retail operations. He's taking what profits he's getting from them
>> (Kmart is doing extremely well)

>Agree with most of what you're saying with a coupe of
>exceptions.  I don't believe Kmart is doing extremely well.
>It's not doing very well at all.  It's just that it's been somewhat
>profitable, while Sears is far worse.

>The Kmart here is a real mess.  I rarely go there, even
>though it's close.   They always have long lines at the
>checkouts.  I was there last Xmas and the cash register
>system, which the cashier told me was 25 years old,
>was having serious problems.  The system sure looked
>at least 25 years old.  After waiting in line for 10 mins,
>they finally decided they had to reboot the whole system.
>And get this.  They then have to bring up each register
>one at a time, a process that we were told would take
>at least a half hour.   And then I had to suggest to the
>manager, "How about if you give us bags to put our
>stuff in and we can leave it and come back later to
>pay for it?"    Once I did that, most people took the
>leave the bag option.  I've seen the cash register
>problem on a couple other occasions too.

>>>> The Kmart here is a real mess.  I rarely go there, even
>>>> though it's close.   They always have long lines at the
>>>> checkouts.

>>> The K Mart in our town never has long lines.  They can barely get
>>> enough people in there to make a short line.  The only reason I ever
>>> go there is to buy something I know is "name brand" quality, not cheap
>>> China crap that most of their merchandise is.  The advantage is, the
>>> Wal Mart parking lot will be mobbed, the K Mart lot and store is empty
>>> so quick in and out.

>> I get my prescriptions at kmart, as well as most of my clothing. Never
>> really crowded. Also often get pizza in the store store. I don't think
>> there is any food at my walmart. I learned to like the old walmart, and
>> quickly learned to hate the new.
>> BUT, I bought a 120 ahr battery at walmart, and equivalent at kmart cost
>> $140 vs walmart $90.

>> Greg

>I hate walmart inconsistency. They carry stuff. I shopped at walmart and
>all they had were gas containers. Kmart had water, diesel, kerosene, gas.
>Stuff you should carry, vs stuff they want to carry.

>>On Fri, 9 Nov 2012 14:23:12 -0800 (PST), bob haller <hall...@aol.com>
>>wrote:

>>>I am proud I am a effective complainer and rarely lose a issue.....

>>>If more people complained loudly customer service would improve
>>>dramatically.......

>>Just don't complain while you are upset or mad. Take a break, collect
>>your thoughts, relax  and make an honest presentation of the facts.

>>I've listened to thousands and thousands of complaints. The louder a
>>person gets, the calmer  I get.  It brings down the stillness.

>I found that tactic to be extremely effective when airlines screw up.
>When I was flying to the left coast regularly I managed to snag a free
>upgrade to first class on one leg of the flight on almost every trip.
>If *anything* went wrong I just asked if they'd comp me an upgrade.
>Since something almost always goes wrong somewhere, it became a
>regular thing.  Others, usually whiny, demanding, liberals, were lucky
>to get a seat at all.  Once I did have to fly through Chicago to get
>from NC to VT but the ORD=BTV connection was 1st class.  The FA
>apologized for not getting me a 1st class seat on the RDH-ORD leg. ;-)

>> gregz <ze...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:22:56 -0800 (PST), "trad...@optonline.net"
>>>> <trad...@optonline.net> wrote:

>>>>> The Kmart here is a real mess.  I rarely go there, even
>>>>> though it's close.   They always have long lines at the
>>>>> checkouts.

>>>> The K Mart in our town never has long lines.  They can barely get
>>>> enough people in there to make a short line.  The only reason I ever
>>>> go there is to buy something I know is "name brand" quality, not cheap
>>>> China crap that most of their merchandise is.  The advantage is, the
>>>> Wal Mart parking lot will be mobbed, the K Mart lot and store is empty
>>>> so quick in and out.

>>> I get my prescriptions at kmart, as well as most of my clothing. Never
>>> really crowded. Also often get pizza in the store store. I don't think
>>> there is any food at my walmart. I learned to like the old walmart, and
>>> quickly learned to hate the new.
>>> BUT, I bought a 120 ahr battery at walmart, and equivalent at kmart cost
>>> $140 vs walmart $90.

>>> Greg

>> I hate walmart inconsistency. They carry stuff. I shopped at walmart and
>> all they had were gas containers. Kmart had water, diesel, kerosene, gas.
>> Stuff you should carry, vs stuff they want to carry.

> Walmart has water containers but  in the kitchen/home section, not in
> the automotive section.  ?!?

>>On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 22:28:43 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:

>>>On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 20:27:34 -0500, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

>>>>  What I dislike most about the big "W" is they will target a product
>>>>and guarantee nobody will undersell them - so soon the only place to
>>>>buy it is at the big "W". A short time later, they find they are
>>>>loosing too much money on it - or the supplier finds they cannot
>>>>afford to supply it at the price the big "W" will pay them for it - so
>>>>it is no longer supplied - and it is no longer available in the
>>>>genereal markrtplace.

>>>The suppliers make dumb decisions too.
>>>Vlasic pickles
>>>http://www.fastcompany.com/47593/wal-mart-you-dont-know

>>>versus Snapper mower
>>>http://www.fastcompany.com/54763/man-who-said-no-wal-mart
>>  Yup, but when Walmart has effectively killed your market, it's hard
>>to say no.

>>Everyone's used to buying, say, Vlasic pickles for  $.79  when the
>>realistic price is $139, and it's hard to build a market outside of
>>Walmart at even a bargan $129 - what's a company going to do???

>I don't blame Wal Mart, all Vlasic had to do was say "no" and refuse
>to sell at a lower price.

>A few years back, one of our biggest customers was Frigidaire.  They
>use similar tactics on their suppliers.  The parts we made for them
>were seasonal.  After year one, we were asked for a 10% price
>reduction.  Their logic was that over the year, we found better and
>faster ways to make their parts.  There is some truth to that and we
>wee able to reduce the price and maintain profits. A couple of years
>later, they sent a letter and asked for a 25% reduction, a rebate for
>the previous year, and longer terms.  We said "no thanks, where do you
>want the tools sent?".  

>One of our competitors happily snatched the job from us at the reduced
>price.  Years later, we are still making a profit, they filed
>bankruptcy.  The Frigidaire business is long gone as they moved the
>plant to Mexico the following year.  

>More recently, we make a product for a customer that potentially sells
>to Wal Mart.  We sell it for 1.10.  WM said they would buy it at 85¢.
>Again, we said no.  Would have been a big order, but with no profit
>and we would  have had to skimp on material.

>-snip-

>>1/3 of all suppliers to wall mart go bankrupt in a matter of years.

>Either 2/3 make more money than they ever dreamed of-- or that's just
>a bullshit number you pulled out of thin air.

>I do note that you don't say how many years-- so perhaps 90% of your
>1/3 haven't gone bankrupt yet, but they will? [and it will be
>Walmart's fault?]

>Walmart may be a bully, but if they were driving one in 3 businesses
>to bankruptcy, then why would any business sign on with them?      And
>if they did-- isn't that what the whole free market is about?

>Jim

>One of our competitors happily snatched the job from us at the reduced
>price.  Years later, we are still making a profit, they filed
>bankruptcy.  The Frigidaire business is long gone as they moved the
>plant to Mexico the following year.

>More recently, we make a product for a customer that potentially sells
>to Wal Mart.  We sell it for 1.10.  WM said they would buy it at 85¢.
>Again, we said no.  Would have been a big order, but with no profit
>and we would  have had to skimp on material.

>> bob haller <hall...@aol.com> wrote:

>> -snip-

>>> 1/3 of all suppliers to wall mart go bankrupt in a matter of years.

>> Either 2/3 make more money than they ever dreamed of-- or that's just
>> a bullshit number you pulled out of thin air.

>> I do note that you don't say how many years-- so perhaps 90% of your
>> 1/3 haven't gone bankrupt yet, but they will? [and it will be
>> Walmart's fault?]

>> Walmart may be a bully, but if they were driving one in 3 businesses
>> to bankruptcy, then why would any business sign on with them?      And
>> if they did-- isn't that what the whole free market is about?

>> Jim
>   I worked for a company that didn't sell through WalMart - but did
> sell to the government. Same situation - sell for less than the next
> guy - to get the big deals. They figured ig they sold 10,000 computers
> to the government the volume buying would reduce the cost to, let's
> say for argument's sake, $600 instead of the current $650. They sold
> the computers to the government for the GST program at $625 (numbers
> not accurate - but you get the idea) and only sold 3000, so the volume
> savings did not come to nearly what they were counting on - so they
> started buying cheaper parts - which raised the failure rate - which
> raised their warranty costs (third party outsourced warranty part of
> the "production cost".

> They went through 2.5 million dollars like water through a fire-hose
> and  were insolvent within 2 years.  Went from a small  profitable
> company to a big money pit.

>> gregz <ze...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:22:56 -0800 (PST), "trad...@optonline.net"
>>>> <trad...@optonline.net> wrote:

>>>>> The Kmart here is a real mess.  I rarely go there, even
>>>>> though it's close.   They always have long lines at the
>>>>> checkouts.

>>>> The K Mart in our town never has long lines.  They can barely get
>>>> enough people in there to make a short line.  The only reason I ever
>>>> go there is to buy something I know is "name brand" quality, not cheap
>>>> China crap that most of their merchandise is.  The advantage is, the
>>>> Wal Mart parking lot will be mobbed, the K Mart lot and store is empty
>>>> so quick in and out.

>>> I get my prescriptions at kmart, as well as most of my clothing. Never
>>> really crowded. Also often get pizza in the store store. I don't think
>>> there is any food at my walmart. I learned to like the old walmart, and
>>> quickly learned to hate the new.
>>> BUT, I bought a 120 ahr battery at walmart, and equivalent at kmart cost
>>> $140 vs walmart $90.

>>> Greg

>> I hate walmart inconsistency. They carry stuff. I shopped at walmart and
>> all they had were gas containers. Kmart had water, diesel, kerosene, gas.
>> Stuff you should carry, vs stuff they want to carry.

> Walmart has water containers but  in the kitchen/home section, not in
> the automotive section.  ?!?