Is there a pool pump fitting adapter to stop this incessant leak?

[Danny D.]

There is no doubt my filter & cleaner pool pumps are both leaking copiously
at the inlet as shown below (mostly when the pumps are off):
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/12765654/img/12765654.jpg

Up until now, I've been trying the "miracle in a tube" solution - but it's
really not working to plug and glue and stop up the leaks.
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/12765714/img/12765714.jpg

The problem is that the plumbing is pressed fitting to fitting, with 7 Jandy
valves all pressed together, within a foot with nary a pipe in between:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/12765681/img/12765681.jpg

Is there a magic fitting that I can slip into the inlet that will fix this
incessant leak without having to replace the pumps & Jandy valves?

[Oren]

Is this a Hayward unit?

I suspect it is a threaded slip PVC connector and NOT "pressed" into
the leaf strainer. Check a unit at the pool store for threads
inside...

Looks like:

<http://www.thepondoutlet.com/shop/images/99144.jpg>

The fix it to cut it off and re-do the pipe.

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 12:48:23 -0700 Oren wrote:

> Is this a Hayward unit?

I'm sorry for forgetting to mention the pump brand.
They're both Sta-Rite Max-e-Glas II pumps.

I had replaced this fitting on the OUTLET side:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/12766530/img/12766530.jpg

So, maybe, just maybe, there's a similar threaded fitting
on the leaking inlet side?

[tra...@optonline.net]

That's probably what's there, ie it's threaded. Assuming the basket
strainer itself is not cracked at the threads, then you could cut the
pipe and put on a new slip to male threaded adaptor. But the other
problem you have is that as you pointed out, they packed fitting to
fitting to valves etc, without even an inch of pipe to work with.
To get it apart and back together, you may have to sacrifice some
valves or other components. Not clear from the pic exactly how
to approach it. But when putting it back together, as long as you
have room to the right of the pump, I'd move the pump over by
6 to 8" so that you have some pipe there to make future repairs
easy. That is what should have been done in the first place. With
some pipe you can just cut the pipe, get it apart, use a repair
coupling
to put it back together, etc.

[Bob F]

The fittings are probably threaded into the strainer baskets. You need to seal
and re-tighten the threaded fittings.

What I might try to easily solve this problem follows:

1. Find some reinforced rubber or reinforced plastic tubing (hose - 1 1/2 or 2"
I.D.) which could be tightly forced over the ends of the ABS pipe fitting used.
You will need 2 or so inches for each cut you need to make. Also get 2 stainless
hose clamps sized to fit over that tubing for each repair you need to make.

2. Sand smooth the surface of the joint between two fittings, so you can get a
good seal with the tubing later. Then cut the 2 fittings apart at the joint
between them.

3. Replace or seal the threaded fitting. Before screwing the thread into the
strainers, coat the thread with an ABS compatible pipe sealer, then wrap the
coated thread with a few layers of 3/4" teflon tape.

4. Assuming you can flex the replaced and adjacent fitting apart far enough,
pull the adjacent fitting back and slip the 1/2 of the 2" piece of rubber hose
over the replaced fitting, and then slide the adjacent fitting into the other
end of the hose piece.

5. Tighten a hose clamp very snugly onto each end of the hose piece.

Test the repair.

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 15:01:18 -0700 tra...@optonline.net wrote:

> But when putting it back together, as long as you
> have room to the right of the pump, I'd move the pump over by
> 6 to 8" so that you have some pipe there to make future repairs
> easy. That is what should have been done in the first place.

If I end up cutting the fittings, I _will_ move the pumps back
a foot or two as shown in this photo (yellow arrows):
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/12766637/img/12766637.jpg

The problem is saving the Jandy valves & pump by cutting at
the right two spots for each pump.

Here's a large picture showing how closely packed the fittings
are to the filter pump:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/12767319/img/12767319.jpg

It sure does NOT look threaded - but it must be. Right?

[Stormin Mormon]

Is it leaking at thread, or is the housing cracked?
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
.
"Danny D." <da...@pleasedontemail.com> wrote in message news:kl6n4a$731$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

[Oren]

What trader said. It is possible that there is a crack in the
strainer adjacent the connection. My Stay-Rite filter housing leaked
when running the pump.

Had to have been a crack in the bottom of the housing. No other
obvious reason to leak.

[Oren]

On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 01:24:24 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<da...@pleasedontemail.com> wrote:

>Here's a large picture showing how closely packed the fittings
>are to the filter pump:
> http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/12767319/img/12767319.jpg
>
>It sure does NOT look threaded - but it must be. Right?

You cannot tell, because of all the cruddy patches on the connection.

Buy the way, I'm told Stay-Rite is no longer a player in the pump and
filter world. Pentair and Hayward are now the *major* players. I
replaced my system with a Pentair pump and a Hayward filter. YMMV

[recycl...@gmail.com]

“the plumbing is pressed fitting to fitting, with 7 Jandy
valves all pressed together, within a foot with nary a pipe in between”

That is exactly the difference between a technician and a contractor. A contractor only cares about you until he gets paid, a technician makes sure he doesn’t have to come back and re-do the what he just did because he’s employed to maintain the equipment of the company and he wants to get paid the next pay day as well as the one after that.

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 20:20:22 -0700 Oren wrote:

> I replaced my system with a Pentair pump & a Hayward filter.

In California, it is illegal to replace my 1.65 HP single-speed
pump with a single-speed pump by anyone but the homeowner.
http://westhawaiipoolsupply.com/LessMore.pdf

So, if I hired anyone to replace anything, I'm told it
will costs thousands of dollars because the entire system
has to be redesigned & rebuilt to accommodate multi-speed
pumps. And I wouldn't have the knowhow (or money) to
design my own multi-speed system.

I think I'll try to find a way to move the two pumps
back about a foot (& maybe to the side as was suggested).

That means cutting at the inlet, as close as I can to
preserve both the pump and the nearest Jandy valve.

Here's a smaller picture with the two inlets circled:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/12767439/img/12767439.jpg
(bigger picture below)

It looks like the filter pump (left side in the picture)
has a straight "thing" that can be cut - but this thing
appears to be a "sleeve" or "repair" of some sort (as it
has a slice in the top that you can see in the photo).

If I cut that "thing" in half, I might be able to move the
filter bump backward a foot or two.

The problem on the cleaner pump (right side of the picture)
is that there are two 90 degree elbows flush out of the
pump and butting up against the Jandy valve. So, the question
there is _where_ would you cut the cleaner pump inlet lines?

Here is a better (bigger) closeup of the problem:
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12767438/img/12767438.jpg

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 22:28:01 -0400 Stormin Mormon wrote:

> Is it leaking at thread, or is the housing cracked?

I don't know. But I think it's coming out at the threads.

[tra...@optonline.net]

It's hard to tell exactly how far back you'd have to go and
what all you'd have to replace when you cut this apart.
The problem as everyone agrees is that it's all put together
with no straight pipe in between that you could cut and
rejoin. Some things to keep in mind:

If the strainer basket is cracked, you can very likely replace
just that, without replacing the pump.

manual 3 port valves aren't terribly expensive, so if you have
to replace one it's not the end of the world. The ones I have
are glued fittings, so I think you're going to wind up having to
do that.

It looks like you have a motorized valve. Don't know what
kind that is, but with the one I have, it uses a standard
3 port valve and the motor part just replaces the top part.
So, if yours is like that and you have to replace the motorized
valve, it may be no worse or expensive than replacing a
3 port valve.

If you cut it all apart and move the pumps back, I would
put unions on both of them. They did put a union on the
discharge side of one pump, but it's not clear to me that
having just that one does any good, because you still
can't remove the pump. With unions on the suction side,
if you need to work on a pump or replace it, you just
unscrew the union.

If you can do this yourself, even if you have to buy a couple
valves, etc, it's going to be a LOT cheaper than calling a
pool company.

Depending on your cost of electricity, replacing those pumps
with dual speed ones could have a reasonable cost recovery
period. The idea is that they run at low speed to filter the
water, which is most of the time. Instead of running the
pump for say 6 hours, you run it maybe 18 hours to move
the same amount of water. But it uses a lot less electricity
because the energy required goes up at like the cube of
the speed. But I would only use a std dual speed pump.
They only cost a little more than a regular pump. There are
also variable speed pumps, which have electronics and
are very expensive. Those, IMO, are nuts.

Finally, how bad is it actually leaking? For example, If it leaks
two gallons a day, unless it's causing other problems, is it worth
fixing?

[Danny D.]

On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 04:58:20 -0700 tra...@optonline.net wrote:

>> Here is a better (bigger) closeup of the problem:
>>  http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12767438/img/12767438.jpg
>
> It's hard to tell exactly how far back you'd have to go and
> what all you'd have to replace when you cut this apart.

How do these two spots look for places to cut?

1. Straight section of the "sleeve" in the filter pump inlet:
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12768148/img/12768148.jpg

Note: This straight section has a weird "gash" in the top of
it; so it may not actually be a "pipe" but more of a
sleeve over a pipe. I'm not actually sure.

2. Elbowed section in the cleaner pump inlet:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/12768151/img/12768151.jpg


Once I make these two cuts, I might be able to slip a pip OVER
the Jandy valve inlet, thereby saving the Jandy valves.

If I have to remove the Jandy valves, I'll have to drain the pool
because the filter pumps are 8 feet below the waterline. Sigh...
Jandy valve neck

[Danny D.]

On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 13:33:06 +0000 Danny D. wrote:

> How do these two spots look for places to cut?

> http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12768148/img/12768148.jpg
> http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/12768151/img/12768151.jpg

Ooops. I posted the original pic by mistake.

Here is a shrunken pic where the marks are annotated where I
think it is being suggested to cut flush with the Jandy valve:

1. Straight section of the "sleeve" in the filter pump inlet:

http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/12768140/640/12768140.jpg

2. Elbowed section in the cleaner pump inlet:

http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/12768141/img/12768141.jpg

[Danny D.]

On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 04:58:20 -0700 tra...@optonline.net wrote:

> It looks like you have a motorized valve. Don't know what
> kind that is, but with the one I have, it uses a standard
> 3 port valve and the motor part just replaces the top part.

I think it's the same with mine.

Basically the top (electrical) half is a CompPool valve;
with the bottom part being the original mechanical
Jandy valve.

If I cut flush with the valve port, I might be able to
slip an oversized pipe OVER the outside of the valve,
and then taper that pipe back down to the original size
before going into the pool pump.

But the only way I'll be able to do that is to move the
pumps back about a foot or two - which is fine by me
as pipe is cheap. It's the valves which are expensive.

Plus, if I remove the valves, the entire pool has to
be drained because they're well below the pool water level.

This picture shows where I think I'll move the filter
pump back about a foot or so to:
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12768173/img/12768173.jpg

[Danny D.]

On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 04:58:20 -0700 tra...@optonline.net wrote:

> If you cut it all apart and move the pumps back, I would
> put unions on both of them. They did put a union on the
> discharge side of one pump, but it's not clear to me that
> having just that one does any good, because you still
> can't remove the pump.

Funny you mention that because "I" put that one union in
when I had to replace a cracked Jandy valve on the outlet
side of the cleaner pump.

And, I agree. One union does me no good - but what I can
do is put a union on the inlet side, and then I can remove
the pump at will.

I also need to figure out how to safely extend the 220V
heavy wire. For that, I was thinking of bolting a junction
box to the concrete. Would that work?

[Danny D.]

On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 04:58:20 -0700 tra...@optonline.net wrote:

> Finally, how bad is it actually leaking? For example, If it leaks
> two gallons a day, unless it's causing other problems, is it worth
> fixing?

Exactly the dilemma why it isn't worth thousands of dollars to fix.

They leak only when the pumps are turned off.

I put in about 500 gallons every few days, unless I manually
turn all the Jandy valves off. (I have an Ace Hardware water
flow valve that I manually set to 500 gallons which is about
an inch of water.)

The water is cheap; the pool chemicals aren't. Plus, I can't
have the pool on automatic if I turn off the valves.

[tra...@optonline.net]

On Apr 24, 9:33 am, "Danny D." <da...@pleasedontemail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 04:58:20 -0700 trad...@optonline.net wrote:
>
> >> Here is a better (bigger) closeup of the problem:
> >>  http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12767438/img/12767438.jpg
>
> > It's hard to tell exactly how far back you'd have to go and
> > what all you'd have to replace when you cut this apart.
>
> How do these two spots look for places to cut?
>
> 1. Straight section of the "sleeve" in the filter pump inlet:
>    http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12768148/img/12768148.jpg
>
>    Note: This straight section has a weird "gash" in the top of
>          it; so it may not actually be a "pipe" but more of a
>          sleeve over a pipe. I'm not actually sure.

I don't know exactly what that section is composed of either.
But why not just cut it about 1 1/2" from the valve? That
looks like just normal pipe. Then you have 1 1/2" of pipe
sticking out to put a coupling on when you rebuild.

>
> 2. Elbowed section in the cleaner pump inlet:
>    http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/12768151/img/12768151.jpg
>

But that section is all just elbows, no pipe. So, it
doesn't matter where you cut it. And the pipe is glued
into the valve. Normally, I'd say you'd have to replace
the valve. But...... A few months back on This Old House,
Richard Trethway was working on a sink and he used a
tool I'd never seen before. It goes on the end of a drill and
it's made to go inside a previously glued PVC fitting and
ream out the old glued in pipe part so that the fitting can
be saved and used again. It's made for situations like you
have.

> Once I make these two cuts, I might be able to slip a pip OVER
> the Jandy valve inlet, thereby saving the Jandy valves.

Ain't nothing going over that because those valves are
goes inta, ie they are a slip/glue fitting.

[tra...@optonline.net]

On Apr 24, 9:35 am, "Danny D." <da...@pleasedontemail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 13:33:06 +0000 Danny D. wrote:
>
> > How do these two spots look for places to cut?
> >  http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12768148/img/12768148.jpg
> >  http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/12768151/img/12768151.jpg
>
> Ooops. I posted the original pic by mistake.
>
> Here is a shrunken pic where the marks are annotated where I
> think it is being suggested to cut flush with the Jandy valve:
>
> 1. Straight section of the "sleeve" in the filter pump inlet:
>    http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/12768140/640/12768140.jpg
>

You for sure don't want to cut that right next to the valve. If
you do, you have nothing to attach to. As I said before, I'd
cut it 1 1/2" back from the valve. That leaves you with a nice
stub to glue a coupling on. Or you could cut it further back,
closer to the strainer, where the white arrow is.

> 2. Elbowed section in the cleaner pump inlet:
>    http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/12768141/img/12768141.jpg

Doesn't matter much where you cut that part, it's all
scrap. See my other post about the tool to drill out the
valve fitting.

[tra...@optonline.net]

On Apr 24, 9:40 am, "Danny D." <da...@pleasedontemail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 04:58:20 -0700 trad...@optonline.net wrote:
>
> > It looks like you have a motorized valve.  Don't know what
> > kind that is, but with the one I have, it uses a standard
> > 3 port valve and the motor part just replaces the top part.
>
> I think it's the same with mine.
>
> Basically the top (electrical) half is a CompPool valve;
> with the bottom part being the original mechanical
> Jandy valve.
>
> If I cut flush with the valve port, I might be able to
> slip an oversized pipe OVER the outside of the valve,
> and then taper that pipe back down to the original size
> before going into the pool pump.

The operative word there is "might". Normally there is
no way in hell you could do that with regular PVC sized
fittings. There just isn't one made to go over. BUT...
with some of these pool valves, etc they do make them
to accomodate two different size pipes. So, there is
a CHANCE that might be possible. A spec sheet for
the valve would say.

But, why even go there? The straightforward simple
solution is to just cut the pipe so you leave a 1 1/2" stub
coming out of the valve. Then glue a coupling to that.....

>
> But the only way I'll be able to do that is to move the
> pumps back about a foot or two - which is fine by me
> as pipe is cheap. It's the valves which are expensive.
>
> Plus, if I remove the valves, the entire pool has to
> be drained because they're well below the pool water level.

Doh! But fortunately I think it can be done without draining
the pool. But you'll need a special tool to bore out the other
valve with the elbows going into it.

[tra...@optonline.net]

On Apr 24, 9:42 am, "Danny D." <da...@pleasedontemail.com> wrote:

Yes, but these runs are usually so short the easier thing
is to replace the whole liquid tight conduit back to wherever
it goes. There is probably a control box nearby, no?

[tra...@optonline.net]

On Apr 24, 10:20 am, "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
wrote:

> it goes.   There is probably a control box nearby, no?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

And besides the power run, you also need to make sure
the two pumps remain tied to the bonding system. That's
the heavy solid copper wire that's connected to the motors
now.

[Oren]

On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 13:33:06 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<da...@pleasedontemail.com> wrote:

>How do these two spots look for places to cut?
>
>1. Straight section of the "sleeve" in the filter pump inlet:
> http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12768148/img/12768148.jpg
>
> Note: This straight section has a weird "gash" in the top of
> it; so it may not actually be a "pipe" but more of a
> sleeve over a pipe. I'm not actually sure.
>
>2. Elbowed section in the cleaner pump inlet:
> http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/12768151/img/12768151.jpg
>
>
>Once I make these two cuts, I might be able to slip a pip OVER
>the Jandy valve inlet, thereby saving the Jandy valves.
>
>If I have to remove the Jandy valves, I'll have to drain the pool
>because the filter pumps are 8 feet below the waterline. Sigh...
>Jandy valve neck

I'd cut them closer to the strainer, saving what is closer to the
Jandy valves. They make an inside slip / reducer fitting (pool shop)
that will fit inside the pipe (glued), thus no need to go over the
pipe.

Pic:

<http://insertfittings.com/catalog/images/pvccouplerslipreducer.jpg>

I'm guessing:

two (2) slip reducer fittings

Two (2) slip / threaded fittings

X length of pipe and glue

This ought to allow you to move the pumps back. The union fittings are
the cats meow as trader mentioned.

[Oren]

On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 07:07:37 -0700 (PDT), "tra...@optonline.net"
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote:

>> Once I make these two cuts, I might be able to slip a pip OVER
>> the Jandy valve inlet, thereby saving the Jandy valves.
>
>Ain't nothing going over that because those valves are
>goes inta, ie they are a slip/glue fitting.

They make a slip / reducer fitting that will slide inside the pipe.
Had to have one when my unit was replaced.

<http://a248.e.akamai.net/origin-cdn.volusion.com/carwc.szhuu/v/vspfiles/photos/Reducer-Bushing-SpigxSlip-2T.jpg>

[Oren]

On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 07:20:39 -0700 (PDT), "tra...@optonline.net"
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote:

>> I also need to figure out how to safely extend the 220V
>> heavy wire. For that, I was thinking of bolting a junction
>> box to the concrete. Would that work?
>
>Yes, but these runs are usually so short the easier thing
>is to replace the whole liquid tight conduit back to wherever
>it goes. There is probably a control box nearby, no?

+2

For the bonding wire, mine was just another piece of copper that added
length to reach the motor, then clamped to bond the two pieces.

Kind of like this clamp:

<http://www.inyopools.com/images/Spa/GB-5-5_jpg.jpg>

The tab piece with the hole was removed by bending a few times to
break it off.

[Danny D.]

On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 07:12:50 -0700 tra...@optonline.net wrote:

> See my other post about the tool to drill out the
> valve fitting.

Don't I have two options for restoring the valve fitting opening?

a) I can drill out the inside pipe to restore the original
ID of the valve fitting ...

b) Or I can simply place an oversized pipe on the outside of
the valve fitting, and then step that oversized pipe down
to the standard 2-inch pipe by the time it gets to the pool
pump?

Right?

If so, the second option *seems* easier (if it works).

[tra...@optonline.net]

On Apr 24, 12:15 pm, "Danny D." <da...@pleasedontemail.com> wrote:

As i said earlier, you MAY have that option. IF the valve
is designed for that. I have seen pool components that
are designed to accomodate two different size pipes.
But they are not ALL that way. If that were a regular PVC
valve, there is no way you'd connect to the outside,
because it's not designed for it. The outside of a regular
PVC valve isn't a standard size that you can put another
PVC fitting, pipe, etc over.

If you can do it that way, then yes, for sure it's easier.

[Danny D.]

On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 07:07:37 -0700 tra...@optonline.net wrote:

> That looks like just normal pipe. Then you have 1 1/2" of pipe
> sticking out to put a coupling on when you rebuild.

It looks like normal pipe - but notice this huge but ancient
gash cut deeply circumferentially in the middle of it.

http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/12771629/img/12771629.jpg

If that sleeve were only a single-wall pipe, that gash is so
deep that I suspect the pipe would have burst long ago, don't you
think?

If it weren't for that deep gash, I'd agree that it would appear
to just be a regular pipe.

But that gash tells me there *may* be a pipe inside of a pipe.

[tra...@optonline.net]

On Apr 24, 11:48 am, Oren <O...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 07:07:37 -0700 (PDT), "trad...@optonline.net"

>
> <trad...@optonline.net> wrote:
> >> Once I make these two cuts, I might be able to slip a pip OVER
> >> the Jandy valve inlet, thereby saving the Jandy valves.
>
> >Ain't nothing going over that because those valves are
> >goes inta, ie they are a slip/glue fitting.
>
> They make a slip / reducer fitting  that will slide inside the pipe.
> Had to have one when my unit was replaced.
>

> <http://a248.e.akamai.net/origin-cdn.volusion.com/carwc.szhuu/v/vspfil...>

Yes, I saw your earlier post. But why would you want to
use a fitting that reduces the size of the pipe, when you
can just leave a 1 1/2" stub coming out of the valve and
then use a 50c regular PVC coupling?

[Oren]

Agree. In my case one reducer was used to connect the solar pipe.
Without the reducer it would have meant plenty more work. It was the
simplest method.

There was little, if any affect on water flow or pressure.

[Danny D.]

On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 08:48:59 -0700 Oren wrote:

> They make a slip / reducer fitting that will slide inside the pipe.

I think I'll take advantage of that reducer fitting!

In fact, I think that seemingly straight run into the filter
pump might actually be two reducers fitted end-to-end ???

I surmise that because of this huge circumferential "gash"
at the center point of that straight run outlined by the arrows:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/12771655/img/12771655.jpg

Here's a closeup of that "gash":
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/12771692/img/12771692.jpg

Do you think this straight run is actually two of those reducer
fittings, pressed together, end to end?

[tra...@optonline.net]

On Apr 24, 12:23 pm, "Danny D." <da...@pleasedontemail.com> wrote:

Just cut the pipe off 1 1/2" from the valve, before the gash.
Do you want to make everything harder and more complicated
than it has to be? There isn't a pipe inside a pipe. And there
isn't anything to make it burst. You're looking at the suction
side

[Danny D.]

On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 07:38:19 -0700 Oren wrote:

> I'd cut them closer to the strainer, saving what is closer
> to the Jandy valves.

I see what you mean. Makes sense what you say.

Good thing I had asked because my first thought was to cut
flush with the Jandy valves.

But, if I do as you suggest, I can always cut closer and
closer to the Jandy valves anyway (big can always be made
smaller).

[Danny D.]

On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 07:18:48 -0700 tra...@optonline.net wrote:

> But you'll need a special tool to bore out the other
> valve with the elbows going into it.

Do you think I can get this tool at Home Depot or Lowes?

I just googled and didn't really find this at the box stores:
http://www.plumbingsupply.com/pvcsaver.html

[Danny D.]

On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 07:20:39 -0700 tra...@optonline.net wrote:

> Yes, but these runs are usually so short the easier thing
> is to replace the whole liquid tight conduit back to wherever
> it goes. There is probably a control box nearby, no?

Hmmmmmm.... yes there is a control box very close nearby.
Here it is, circled, in yellow:
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12771878/img/12771878.jpg

But, I have a secondary reason for wanting to put a junction
box on the concrete next to the motor (if that meets code).

The installers didn't add a single inch of unnecessary wire!

So, when I remove the motor for bearing replacement, it's
ridiculously tough to unroute the thick copper wires,
disconnect them from the motor, and then reroute &
reconnect them back when I'm done.

Basically, the only way to do it, since there is a tight
90 degree elbow right at the motor itself, is to spin the
heavy motor to tighten that elbow. It's ridiculously hard!

So, by adding the following, it would make pump removal easy:
1. Add a union at the inlet and outlet pipes of the pump
2. Add a junction box for the very thick 220v wires

The key thing is that I have to be safe with the wiring
because there is a lot of water and ground lying around. :)

[Danny D.]

On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 07:37:57 -0700 tra...@optonline.net wrote:

> And besides the power run, you also need to make sure
> the two pumps remain tied to the bonding system. That's
> the heavy solid copper wire that's connected to the motors
> now.

Yikes. You're right. The builders were economical with that
bare wire as much as anything else, and for that, you don't
want junctions so I'll likely replace the whole thing (which
would not be a big deal).

The Jandy valves are the big deal. And the pump!

[tra...@optonline.net]

On Apr 24, 1:05 pm, "Danny D." <da...@pleasedontemail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 07:20:39 -0700 trad...@optonline.net wrote:
>
> > Yes, but these runs are usually so short the easier thing
> > is to replace the whole liquid tight conduit back to wherever
> > it goes.   There is probably a control box nearby, no?
>
> Hmmmmmm.... yes there is a control box very close nearby.
> Here it is, circled, in yellow:
>  http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12771878/img/12771878.jpg
>
> But, I have a secondary reason for wanting to put a junction
> box on the concrete next to the motor (if that meets code).

Yes, you can do that if you wish. Use a waterproof junction box.

>
> The installers didn't add a single inch of unnecessary wire!
>
> So, when I remove the motor for bearing replacement, it's
> ridiculously tough to unroute the thick copper wires,
> disconnect them from the motor, and then reroute &
> reconnect them back when I'm done.

Alternatively you could just replace the conduit and
wires with longer ones that would have some slack so
it's not as difficult.

>
> Basically, the only way to do it, since there is a tight
> 90 degree elbow right at the motor itself, is to spin the
> heavy motor to tighten that elbow. It's ridiculously hard!

That part I don't get. Normally the conduit connector goes
into the motor and is held in place by a nut, no?

>
> So, by adding the following, it would make pump removal easy:
> 1. Add a union at the inlet and outlet pipes of the pump
> 2. Add a junction box for the very thick 220v wires
>
> The key thing is that I have to be safe with the wiring
> because there is a lot of water and ground lying around. :)

Technically, if you want to be 100% code compliant, since you're
moving the motors and rewiring the circuit, it should be on
a circuit with a GFCI breaker.

[tra...@optonline.net]

On Apr 24, 12:46 pm, "Danny D." <da...@pleasedontemail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 07:18:48 -0700 trad...@optonline.net wrote:
>
> > But you'll need a special tool to bore out the other
> > valve with the elbows going into it.
>
> Do you think I can get this tool at Home Depot or Lowes?
>
> I just googled and didn't really find this at the box stores:
>  http://www.plumbingsupply.com/pvcsaver.html

http://www.plumbingstore.com/tools_pvc_fitting_savers.htm

http://www.ohiopowertool.com/P-4937-wheeler-rex-pipe-hog-pvcabs-fitting-reamer-select-size.aspx

[Oren]

On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 16:37:01 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<da...@pleasedontemail.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 08:48:59 -0700 Oren wrote:
>
>> They make a slip / reducer fitting that will slide inside the pipe.
>
>I think I'll take advantage of that reducer fitting!
>
>In fact, I think that seemingly straight run into the filter
>pump might actually be two reducers fitted end-to-end ???
>
>I surmise that because of this huge circumferential "gash"
>at the center point of that straight run outlined by the arrows:
> http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/12771655/img/12771655.jpg
>
>Here's a closeup of that "gash":
> http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/12771692/img/12771692.jpg
>

On each side of this "gash", is the pipe the same OD size?

>Do you think this straight run is actually two of those reducer
>fittings, pressed together, end to end?

No. I *_suspect_* it is a short piece of pipe that connects two slip
fittings, which "should" have been a larger piece.

The installer did no favors for the next person having to make
repairs.

[tra...@optonline.net]

> repairs.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Oren, I think we should get a saw, get his address and go over there.
I mean I'm all for thinking things out and planning ahead.
But this isn't a mission to fix the Hubble telescope where you have
to have every possible contingency covered. Cut the freaking pipe.

[Oren]

Our friend Danny, is an accountant by profession. Everything has to be
accounted for down to the last penny <G>.

As I said, cut the pipe near the strainer, saving as much as possible
towards the Jandy valves. The leak is at the strainer fitting or a
crack in the strainer housing, not at the Jandy valves.

I respect anyone that will make a decision;; even if it turns out to
be wrong. At least they made a decision.

Indecision, well, never mind!

[Bob F]

Danny D. wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 04:58:20 -0700 tra...@optonline.net wrote:
>
>> Finally, how bad is it actually leaking? For example, If it leaks
>> two gallons a day, unless it's causing other problems, is it worth
>> fixing?
>
> Exactly the dilemma why it isn't worth thousands of dollars to fix.
>
> They leak only when the pumps are turned off.

So they probably leak air in when the pums are running, which can wear the
impellars.

By the way, can't you just block the connections in the pool if you need to
drain the equipment?

>
> I put in about 500 gallons every few days, unless I manually
> turn all the Jandy valves off. (I have an Ace Hardware water
> flow valve that I manually set to 500 gallons which is about
> an inch of water.)

That's a major leak. Is it really all coming from those 2 pump inlets?

[Bob F]

Danny D. wrote:
>
> Basically, the only way to do it, since there is a tight
> 90 degree elbow right at the motor itself, is to spin the
> heavy motor to tighten that elbow. It's ridiculously hard!

That hose/clamp suggestion I made solves that problem also, if you want a quick
fix. Hoses clamped on PVC can handle significant pressure. I use them on a 1"
PVC irrigation pump system that regularly hold 30PSI. And you don't have to
worry about not being able to find an exact replacement union when one end needs
to be replaced.

[tra...@optonline.net]

Maybe. If the outside of the pool strainer is perfectly round
where the pipe goes in and if there is enough of something
there so you can get the hose on it. And if you can find a hose
of the right diameter.

[Bob F]

The hose goes on the fittings, not the strainer. It's all in my other post.

[tra...@optonline.net]

On Apr 24, 4:00 pm, "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
wrote:

I read your method again and I got it wrong the first time. What
you're actually suggesting is to use a piece of hose and make
it into a Fernco that you use to connect the two pieces of pipe
back together. That would work for one connection, but on
the other strainer, it's all elbows, he has no pipe to work with.

[Bob F]

If he can find the right size hose, and the fittings are or can be sanded
smooth, it should work fine.

[tra...@optonline.net]

> smooth, it should work fine.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Did you look at the picture? It's all elbows on the second
pump. How do you put hose over elbows and seal it? Geeez... And
on the other pump, where a hose patch
over *might* work, you have to cut it apart even to put
a hose over it. At that point, why wouldn't one just do it
the normal way using PVC?

[chaniarts]

On 4/24/2013 12:28 PM, Bob F wrote:
> Danny D. wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 04:58:20 -0700 tra...@optonline.net wrote:
>>
>>> Finally, how bad is it actually leaking? For example, If it leaks
>>> two gallons a day, unless it's causing other problems, is it worth
>>> fixing?
>>
>> Exactly the dilemma why it isn't worth thousands of dollars to fix.
>>
>> They leak only when the pumps are turned off.
>
> So they probably leak air in when the pums are running, which can wear the
> impellars.
>
> By the way, can't you just block the connections in the pool if you need to
> drain the equipment?
>
>
>>
>> I put in about 500 gallons every few days, unless I manually
>> turn all the Jandy valves off. (I have an Ace Hardware water
>> flow valve that I manually set to 500 gallons which is about
>> an inch of water.)
>
> That's a major leak. Is it really all coming from those 2 pump inlets?
>

most of that's probably evaporation in his area

[DD_BobK]

On Apr 24, 11:08 am, "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
wrote:

+1

[DD_BobK]

On Apr 24, 11:45 am, Oren <O...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 11:08:01 -0700 (PDT), "trad...@optonline.net"

+1

[DD_BobK]

On Apr 24, 11:08 am, "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
wrote:

The really unfortunate thing.... I live within walking distance of
DDD.
But IMO, he's beyond help.

I think my real issue with DDD is ...
his approach to home repair painfully reminds me of my dumb, know-it-
all, cheap ass brother
(also a CPA, who woulda thunk?)

[Danny D.]

On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 14:22:55 -0700 chaniarts wrote:

>> That's a major leak.
>> Is it really all coming from those 2 pump inlets?
> most of that's probably evaporation in his area

The pool has a lot of square foot exposed to the glaring
sun all day - but the leaks do exist and are copious when the
pumps are off.

Plus, the Fafco solar panels leak like sieves; but that's a
DIY for another day.

As for the existing repair to the two pool pump inlets,
I plan on taking your advice so I'm lining up my ducks.

The biggest things holding me up is the boring tool decision,
but other than that, what I plan on doing, in general, is
move both pumps back a foot or so, add a junction box for the
wires, replace the single strand of copper ground wire, and
try to spin out the leaking fittings from the pool pumps.

All that is easy, I think. The hard part will be saving the
Jandy valves, so that's why the boring tool decision matters.

That's where I am now on my thinking anyway, so, there may
not be action on this until I resolve how I'm going to remove
the two-inch pipe which is glued to the inside of the Jandy valve.

NOTE: It may be that I can put a pipe on the OUTSIDE of the
Jandy valve - which might be easier than boring out the inside
of the Jandy valve.

[Danny D.]

On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 18:28:10 -0700 DD_BobK wrote:

> But IMO, he's beyond help.

:)

[Oren]

Stay with us Danny. Don't give up.

[Danny D.]

On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 20:00:13 -0700 Oren wrote:

> Stay with us Danny. Don't give up.

I used to get angry with what DD_BobK said, mostly because
it was purely emotional & usually added no value to the conversation.

I actually thought he was just an emotional kid, but then I looked
him up, and found the real "Robert" that I think the nym actually
belongs to, although there were references to Mammoth Lakes and
boating so I wasn't entirely sure I was reading up on the right guy.

If it was the right Robert K.....y, then I was duly impressed
by what I read about him - from his research at both Stanford & UC Irvine
in prototype development to having his aerospace engineering investments
bought by a defense contractor handling the Apache AH-64 near that
university, to his impressive array of patent awards, and other
mechanical engineering entrepreneurial feats that most of us who
aren't Aspergers merely dream about here in the Silicon Valley.

So I stopped being angered by his hurtful comments and simply wished
that he'd add value to the queries since his design, prototyping, and
repair background was just about as good as it gets here in California.

I guess it helped me understand his personality a bit better when I
looked up his patents to find that most were related to munitions
delivery and explosives! So, if he really does live within a stone's
throw of me, I certainly wouldn't want to get him upset!

Besides, he'd enjoy knowing what I'm nurturing lately in my compost area:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/12782220/img/12782220.jpg
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/12782222/img/12782222.jpg
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/12782225/img/12782225.jpg
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/12782226/img/12782226.jpg

[Bob F]

You might want to try the tool on fittings a bit away from any expensive parts.
If something goes wrong, you'd get a second or third shot at it.

[tra...@optonline.net]

On Apr 25, 10:21 pm, "Danny D." <da...@pleasedontemail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 14:22:55 -0700 chaniarts wrote:
>
> >> That's a major leak.
> >> Is it really all coming from those 2 pump inlets?
> > most of that's probably evaporation in his area
>
> The pool has a lot of square foot exposed to the glaring
> sun all day - but the leaks do exist and are copious when the
> pumps are off.

One factor here that some may be missing is that the
pumps are way below the level of the pool. For the vast
majority of pools, leaks at the eqpt only matter when the
pumps are running. In your case, it's mostly the opposite,
with the leaks losing the water when the pumps are off.

>
> Plus, the Fafco solar panels leak like sieves; but that's a
> DIY for another day.

Uh oh.... If they are leaking like sieves, then maybe that's
where most of the water is going....

>
> As for the existing repair to the two pool pump inlets,
> I plan on taking your advice so I'm lining up my ducks.
>
> The biggest things holding me up is the boring tool decision,
> but other than that, what I plan on doing, in general, is
> move both pumps back a foot or so, add a junction box for the
> wires, replace the single strand of copper ground wire, and
> try to spin out the leaking fittings from the pool pumps.
>
> All that is easy, I think. The hard part will be saving the
> Jandy valves, so that's why the boring tool decision matters.
>
> That's where I am now on my thinking anyway, so, there may
> not be action on this until I resolve how I'm going to remove
> the two-inch pipe which is glued to the inside of the Jandy valve.
>
> NOTE: It may be that I can put a pipe on the OUTSIDE of the
> Jandy valve - which might be easier than boring out the inside
> of the Jandy valve.

Sounds right.

[tra...@optonline.net]

> If something goes wrong, you'd get a second or third shot at it.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

That;s a good idea for sure. He could buy a couple fittings
and some pipe, glue it up, put it in a vice or otherwise secure it,
then try drilling it out. I've never used one of those boring
gizmos.
I didn't even know they existed until I saw Richard Tretheway on
TOH demonstrating one.

But as he points out, he may not have to. Some of those pool
components, particularly valves are designed to accomodate
two sizes of pipe, one going over the vlave fitting the other in it.

[Ashton Crusher]

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 19:23:54 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<da...@pleasedontemail.com> wrote:

>There is no doubt my filter & cleaner pool pumps are both leaking copiously
>at the inlet as shown below (mostly when the pumps are off):
> http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/12765654/img/12765654.jpg
>
>Up until now, I've been trying the "miracle in a tube" solution - but it's
>really not working to plug and glue and stop up the leaks.
> http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/12765714/img/12765714.jpg
>
>The problem is that the plumbing is pressed fitting to fitting, with 7 Jandy
>valves all pressed together, within a foot with nary a pipe in between:
> http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/12765681/img/12765681.jpg
>
>Is there a magic fitting that I can slip into the inlet that will fix this
>incessant leak without having to replace the pumps & Jandy valves?


I'm pretty sure they are threaded. I had pretty much the same problem
with the one that comes out the top. From what I can see in your
pictures you should be able to unbolt the four bolts that hold the
basket part to the pump part and then just unscrew the basket part
from the pipe. You won't be able to do anything to the male end of
the pipe but you can put some non-hardening sealer on the female screw
threads (perhaps permatex #2) in the basket and put it back together.

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 12:06:04 -0700 Ashton Crusher wrote:

> you should be able to unbolt the four bolts that hold the
> basket part to the pump part and then just unscrew the basket part
> from the pipe.

I hope to get to this on the weekend, after I buy the boring tool.
Thanks for the advice.

Pretty much, I'm positive on all but the Jandy valve problem:

PLAN:
- Move both pumps back about a foot & put unions on both ends
- Wire the electrical to a junction box & rewire the ground

WORRY:
- Jandy valves (I hope to go outside but may have to bore the inside)

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 21:22:01 +0000 Danny D. wrote:

> PLAN:
> - Move both pumps back about a foot & put unions on both ends
> - Wire the electrical to a junction box & rewire the ground

I'm not sure how to bolt the pumps down into the concrete.
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/12788555/img/12788555.jpg

I'm thinking I need to pick up a masonry drill bit, and then
cement in a stainless steel threaded rod.

Is that the standard method?

[k...@attt.bizz]

I'd think lead shields and brass or stainless screws/bolts would be a
better idea. You can epoxy the shields in place, if needed. I don't
think I'd want something sticking up from the concrete if you pull the
pump. It looks like that's what you have, though.

[Ashton Crusher]

You don't need to bolt them down, the pipes will have no trouble
keeping everything in place and the lack of bolts will allow things to
move as the slab settles. My pump system is similar to yours, 25
years old, and neither of the pumps was bolted down.

[Danny D.]

On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 00:28:27 -0400 krw wrote:

> I'd think lead shields and brass or stainless screws/bolts would be a
> better idea. You can epoxy the shields in place, if needed.

Interesting. Thanks for that advice.

I had not even considered bolts down versus studs up.

I'm not sure if there is a difference, other than, as you noted,
the bolts would be removed to leaven nothing if the pumps were
removed.

If stainless-steel bolts down is better than stainless steel
threaded rod up, then I can do that.

What's there is definitely not stainless, as it's all rusted,
so, I would think the availability of stainless at the box stores
would limit my choice anyway.

[Danny D.]

On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 01:24:18 -0700 Ashton Crusher wrote:

> You don't need to bolt them down

If that's the case, then that will be easier because I then
have more time to find the threaded rod and masonry bits,
which means it's not the limiting factor.

My limiting factor now is the availability of the boring
tool. Hopefully I'll make progress this weekend to report
back on Monday.

[Oren]

On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 01:24:18 -0700, Ashton Crusher <de...@moore.net>
wrote:

>
>You don't need to bolt them down, the pipes will have no trouble
>keeping everything in place and the lack of bolts will allow things to
>move as the slab settles. My pump system is similar to yours, 25
>years old, and neither of the pumps was bolted down.

+ 1 My fist pump was not bolted / screwed down; nor, is my second
one. It makes sense because doing so would make things more ridged and
perhaps making a fitting crack from vibration at the strainer basket
(oops). A rubber matt can be placed under to pump to dampen any
sound.

[Avatar]

Danny D. wrote on Fri, 26 Apr 2013 21:22:01 +0000:

> - Jandy valves (I hope to go outside but may have to bore the inside)

Would these special repair fittings work on the elbows?
http://flexpvc.com/cart/agora.cgi?product=PVC-Fitting-Extenders

[Oren]

Great link (saved).

[k...@attt.bizz]

THe box stores here have a fairly decent selection of stainless,
though pick your shields and hole depth, etc., based on what you can
buy. You can also buy stainless fasteners online. I generally do
since it's significantly cheaper.

[tra...@optonline.net]

On Apr 27, 9:52 am, Oren <O...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 01:24:18 -0700, Ashton Crusher <d...@moore.net>

I don't think the pumps here are bolted down either. They
really run smooth, there isn't any vibration, etc so I think
just having the two 2" PVC lines is enough to keep them
secure.

[Oren]

The pump, Sta-Rite, that cousin Danny has, has two rubber pieces 1/4
x 1/4 inch x 4 (?) inch that separates the motor from the mount.
Reduces vibration. A rubber pad added under the mount will help also ,
so the mount on the pad will not make noise. Most of these pads are
not solid concrete (for pools). At least mine isn't. If I bolted the
motor mounts down - the pad would crack.

[Ashton Crusher]

My original pad was a 2'x3' precast solid concrete about 3" thick with
and "X" of rebar plus a couple more pieces of rebar along the outer
long edges. Water slowly getting in caused the rebar to corrode and
that caused the concrete to crack and basically disintegrate over the
last 5 years. I finally got around to replacing it and called the
local pool supply to see if they had such pads. They said they did.
Went down expecting to need help loading one into the truck. Turned
out they are now mostly using Styrofoam with a sprayed on shotcrete on
the top and sides, but not the bottom. Can pick it up easily. I'm
dubious about it's long term durability but went ahead and used it.
Seems to me it's going to distort from the uneven loads the different
parts of the pool equipment put on it.

[Danny D.]

On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 07:52:27 -0700 Oren wrote:
>> http://flexpvc.com/cart/agora.cgi?product=PVC-Fitting-Extenders
> Great link (saved).

SATURDAY UPDATE:

After looking in vain at all the big box stores today, I think
I really should strongly consider one of those fittings above
(but I'm not sure which one is the one I need).

In addition to not finding the special fittings, I also
could not find the special 2" boring tools at the big box
stores.

I did pick up a few of all the standard 2 inch couplings
and elbows and pipe though:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/12799785/img/12799785.jpg

And, I bought this tool for cutting 2" PVC pipe:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/12799786/img/12799786.jpg

And, since I couldn't find the 2-inch boring tool at the box stores,
I made this 2" pipe thread tap:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/12799791/img/12799791.jpg

I plan on moving both pumps back, but first, to line up my ducks,
I may need to buy this 2" boring tool:
http://www.plumbingsupply.com/pvcsaver.html
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/12799895/img/12799895.png

And/or this special fitting to go OVER the Jandy valve outlet:
http://insertfittings.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=78
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/12799954/img/12799954.png

Or, that special 2-inch fitting extender to go INSIDE the Jandy
valve outlet (which already has a 2" pipe glued to it):
http://flexpvc.com/cart/agora.cgi?product=PVC-Fitting-Extenders
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/12799991/img/12799991.png

In addition, today, at Home Depot, the guy helping me cut down a
2" nipple and then I sawed two crosscuts to make a crude 2" tap,
just in case I end up screwing a coupling into the Jandy valve:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/12800014/img/12800014.jpg

[tra...@optonline.net]

On Apr 28, 3:37 am, "Danny D." <da...@dontemailthis.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 07:52:27 -0700 Oren wrote:
>
> >>http://flexpvc.com/cart/agora.cgi?product=PVC-Fitting-Extenders
> > Great link (saved).
>
> SATURDAY UPDATE:
>
> After looking in vain at all the big box stores today, I think
> I really should strongly consider one of those fittings above
> (but I'm not sure which one is the one I need).
>
> In addition to not finding the special fittings, I also
> could not find the special 2" boring tools at the big box
> stores.

I wouldn't expect them to have special tools like that. Did you try
a plumbing supply?

>
> I did pick up a few of all the standard 2 inch couplings
> and elbows and pipe though:
>  http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/12799785/img/12799785.jpg
>
> And, I bought this tool for cutting 2" PVC pipe:
>  http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/12799786/img/12799786.jpg

That's nice to have and easier to use, but if you want to
save a few bucks for small jobs like this a hacksaw and
file can be used.

>
> And, since I couldn't find the 2-inch boring tool at the box stores,
> I made this 2" pipe thread tap:
>  http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/12799791/img/12799791.jpg

I have no idea what you intend to do with that.

>
> I plan on moving both pumps back, but first, to line up my ducks,
> I may need to buy this 2" boring tool:
>  http://www.plumbingsupply.com/pvcsaver.html
>  http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/12799895/img/12799895.png
>
> And/or this special fitting to go OVER the Jandy valve outlet:
>  http://insertfittings.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=78
>  http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/12799954/img/12799954.png

The first thing you need to figure out is IF the Jandy valve
is designed for a pipe to go over it. Have you pulled up a data
sheet? Or cut it apart and find out if a standard PVC fitting
is sized to go over it. Real simple, either the outside of that
valve
is designed and sized to mate with a PVC pipe of a std size or it's
not.
At least some pool valves are designed that way.

>
> Or, that special 2-inch fitting extender to go INSIDE the Jandy
> valve outlet (which already has a 2" pipe glued to it):
>  http://flexpvc.com/cart/agora.cgi?product=PVC-Fitting-Extenders
>  http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/12799991/img/12799991.png

I don't even understand what I'm looking at in those pics. First
contrary
to what you say above, the first link clearly says it's designed to go
OVER
a 2" fitting, not inside it. But if you look at the pic, from the
relative
sizes and what is there, it sure looks like it goes inside. If it
goes
inside, then what good is it? You could just use pipe.

The second link is to a fitting that goes OVER the 2" pipe. I don't
know
why you'd need that because if the valve will take a pipe or fitting
over it,
then you can find the appropriate pipe/fittings at HD, Lowes, etc.
If you have a special fitting that really goes inside a 2" PIPE, then
I see how THAT could be used to go inside the pipe that's left
glued inside the Jandy valve.

>
> In addition, today, at Home Depot, the guy helping me cut down a
> 2" nipple and then I sawed two crosscuts to make a crude 2" tap,
> just in case I end up screwing a coupling into the Jandy valve:
>  http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/12800014/img/12800014.jpg

The valve is a female glued fitting. That is why you were looking for
the special boring tool. I don't know why you're wasting time off in
lala land....

[Oren]

On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 21:17:21 -0700, Ashton Crusher <de...@moore.net>
wrote:

>Turned
>out they are now mostly using Styrofoam with a sprayed on shotcrete on
>the top and sides, but not the bottom. Can pick it up easily. I'm
>dubious about it's long term durability but went ahead and used it.
>Seems to me it's going to distort from the uneven loads the different
>parts of the pool equipment put on it.

This is the type I have (it has coatings on both sides - just a foam
center), screws or bolting the motor would be fruitless. When the
pump was replaced I used a 50# bag a paver sand from HD ($5) to level
the ground. The pad was a bit off level. It is original to the
construction install....~ 15 years old. No signs of damage. If you
actually dropped the pad flat on the ground it would likely crack, so
I'm told.

My HVAC compressor pad is solid.

[Bob F]

Ashton Crusher wrote:
>
> I'm pretty sure they are threaded. I had pretty much the same problem
> with the one that comes out the top. From what I can see in your
> pictures you should be able to unbolt the four bolts that hold the
> basket part to the pump part and then just unscrew the basket part
> from the pipe. You won't be able to do anything to the male end of
> the pipe but you can put some non-hardening sealer on the female screw
> threads (perhaps permatex #2) in the basket and put it back together.

Excellent idea. But i'd use the combination of ABS/PVC compatible joint compound
wrapped with teflon tape.

[Bob F]

There are several kinds of concrete attachment bolds that you pound into the
drilled hole. No cement needed.

[Danny D.]

UPDATE:

No matter how many plumbing or irrigation supply places I visited
in San Jose today, I couldn't find this simple 2.5" to 2" reducer:
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12814178/img/12814178.png
http://flexpvc.com/cart/agora.cgi?product=PVC-Couples-Reducing

So I picked up a standard 2.5" coupling + a bushing:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/12814556/img/12814556.jpg

And I cut the 90 degree elbows off the Jandy valve:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/12814560/img/12814560.jpg

The 2.5" coupler and bushing should fit perfectly:
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/12814562/img/12814562.jpg

I think I'll move the motor back and to the right a bit:
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12814563/img/12814563.jpg

I put the pump in a vise and easily spun off the inlet fitting:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/12814565/img/12814565.jpg

I'm not sure if the new bushing takes pipe dope or not?
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12814568/img/12814568.jpg

I think I bought the wrong electrical box, because the 1"-to-1/2"
elbow was connected to a one-inch conduit but I seem to have
bought a 3/4" conduit box.
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/12814567/img/12814567.jpg

Tomorrow I should wire it up - but I'm confused about the following:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/12814564/img/12814564.jpg

Q1: Do we use pipe dope on the pump threads? (What kind?)
Q2: What gauge do you think the electrical wire is?
Q3: If I buy a 1" box, can I hook both pumps to the same box?
(i.e., two conduits in, and two conduits out, each a separate line)
Q4: How do we tie the lines together at the box (wire nuts)?

Note: I've never done 220V wiring before.

[tra...@optonline.net]

I'd use teflon tape on the threads. That's what I always use,
but I think pipe dope is OK too.

> Q2: What gauge do you think the electrical wire is?

You can use 12 gauge. The wire coming out of the motor is
probably smaller than that. The pump only draws about 8
amps.

> Q3: If I buy a 1" box, can I hook both pumps to the same box?

I don't know what you mean by 1" box? One that has 1" knockouts?
In any case, you can put all the wiring in one box, provided it's of
sufficient size for the number and size of conductors you're using.
The box you have looks large enough.

> (i.e., two conduits in, and two conduits out, each a separate line)
> Q4: How do we tie the lines together at the box (wire nuts)?

Yes.

>
> Note: I've never done 220V wiring before.

If it were me, as I said before, I would forget about the added splice
box and just replace the short lengths of liquidtight conduit and wire
back to the timer box with new runs. IMO, it's easier, faster, looks
better, etc. You said the splices would make the motors easier
to remove in the future, but I don't see why. Those existing wires
came right off the pump motor, didn't they?

Good to see the project is going well and you didn't find any
unexpected problems....

[sms]

On 4/29/2013 9:48 PM, Danny D. wrote:
> UPDATE:
>
> No matter how many plumbing or irrigation supply places I visited
> in San Jose today, I couldn't find this simple 2.5" to 2" reducer:
> http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12814178/img/12814178.png
> http://flexpvc.com/cart/agora.cgi?product=PVC-Couples-Reducing

Did you call Ewing? It's not in their catalog but they might have it.

<http://www.ewing1.com/general/ews_locationmap.html?branch=166>

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 05:53:37 -0700 tra...@optonline.net wrote:

>> Q1: Do we use pipe dope on the pump threads? (What kind?)
>
> I'd use teflon tape on the threads. That's what I always use,
> but I think pipe dope is OK too.

I have teflon tape, and these two pipe "dopes":
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/12817344/img/12817344.jpg

- The tube says "slow setting"
- The can says "slow dry" & "soft set"

Other than the teflon tape, is there such a thing as
"non setting" pipe dope?

[Oren]

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 04:48:11 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<da...@dontemailthis.com> wrote:

>I put the pump in a vise and easily spun off the inlet fitting:
> http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/12814565/img/12814565.jpg
>

Looks like Teflon was used. The blue glue seems to be an attempt to
patch the leak.

I don't know the name off hand, but on one of my 2 " PVC pipes has a
thread end ( may come in 4 foot lengths.?)

Sample pic only:
<http://www.abwplastics.co.uk/ekmps/shops/abwplastics/images/pvc-barrel-nipple-plain-bsp-threaded-741-p.jpg>

Anyway, a blue silicon sealer was placed on the pipe and screwed in.

>I'm not sure if the new bushing takes pipe dope or not?
> http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12814568/img/12814568.jpg

Glue the insert inside, cure and then do the pipe.

A pool supply make have a small tube of the silicon sealer I mentioned
( dang if I remember if it was called "BLUE")

[Oren]

I looked for the silicon sealer I mentioned above.

I found this:

<http://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.630.2128/9338>

"Tru-Blu Pipe Thread Sealant is a fast-dry, flexible set thread
sealant designed for high vibration environments such as refrigeration
and industrial applications. Teflon has been added to enhance thread
lubrication during assembly and break out.

Recommended for use on threaded galvanized steel, iron, brass, copper,
aluminum, stainless steel, polyethylene, fiberglass reinforced, PVC
and CPVC pipe. Great for use as a positive lock and seal on threaded
fasteners.

Gasses to 2,600 PSI; Liquids to 10,000 PSI. "

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 06:49:18 -0700 sms wrote:

> Did you call Ewing? It's not in their catalog but they might have it.
> <http://www.ewing1.com/general/ews_locationmap.html?branch=166>

Funny you should mention Ewing!

RV Cloud Plumbing Supply, apparently just around the corner from
Ewing, had recommended them yesterday; but I couldn't find their
location while driving based on RV Cloud's directions.

I ended up asking someone on the street, who directed me to Lane
Irrigation instead, apparently only a few hundred yards from
Ewing, where I ended up buying the coupling and bushing.

After reading your message just now, I called Ewing up this morning;
I talked to Paul who says that they have the exact 2.5 inch to 2 inch
coupling that I want, and, it's less than 3 bucks to boot!

Sheeesh!

Now why didn't I listen to you (and Oren) earlier!
I'll head down today to pick them up!

Note: Apparently the one-piece fitting is not "to code" (while the
two-piece coupling + bushing is); but should it matter to me
if they're to code or not?

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 07:38:14 -0700 Oren wrote:

> Looks like Teflon was used.
> The blue glue seems to be an attempt to
> patch the leak.

You're totally right because I was the one who tried
the blue stuff a year or two ago to stop the leak.

Needless to say, it didn't work.

Interestingly, the blue PVC glue didn't really stick
at all to the (probably ABS) black pump plastic. It
flaked off easily - and you can see it didn't penetrate
to the fitting threads in this closeup photo which
was taken before I flaked cleaned it off the fitting.
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/12818331/img/12818331.jpg

I called Sky Blue Pool Supply, who suggested "Plumbers
Silicone" at $7/tube as the pipe dope for the fitting.

Googling for what that really is, I find a confusing
array of plumbers caulk/putty/sealant/grease/silicone terms.
http://www.plumbersputtypro.com/plumbers-putty-vs-silicone-caulk/

I called The Pool Guys, in Saratoga, but they weren't open
yet. I'll try Leslie's when they open at 10am but you never
know what you'll get from them.

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 07:48:10 -0700 Oren wrote:

> I found this:
> <http://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.630.2128/9338>
> "Tru-Blu Pipe Thread Sealant is a fast-dry, flexible set
> thread sealant

Thanks Oren for looking that up.
I'll see if I can get that at Home Depot this morning.

Here's what I have in stock, at the moment:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/12818565/img/12818565.jpg

I added that white silicone glue to the pic mix after calling
Sky Blue Pools who said that they use "Plumbers Silicone Sealant"
at about $7 per tube; and after calling Ernie's Pool Supply,
who said they had two kinds, "Join Stick" and "White Silicone".

If their white silicone is the same as mine in that photo
above, I probably have enough. But I'll look at HD today for
the Tru-Blu because it seems to be the right stuff from your
description (plus, you know huckleberries!).

[tra...@optonline.net]

On Apr 30, 10:34 am, "Danny D." <da...@dontemailthis.com> wrote:

Regular pipe dope, the grey stuff, is what I would call non-setting.
It dries out over time, but it doesn't harden and stick like
the hardening versions of say Permatex.

I would just use teflon tape

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 05:53:37 -0700 tra...@optonline.net wrote:

> You said the splices would make the motors easier
> to remove in the future, but I don't see why.
> Those existing wires came right off the pump motor, didn't they?

The entire setup is problematic and verrrrrry frustrating!

Half the time I can't even get to the wires inside the
motor simply because the covers are frozen rusted on!
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/12817431/img/12817431.jpg

Here you see my last 3 (failed) attempts at removing the cover!
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12818863/img/12818863.jpg

The other half the time, the cover comes off, but that
super frustrating 90 degree 1" to 1/2" elbow requires you to
spin the entire motor just to get the darn thing off!
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/12817451/img/12817451.jpg

I'm running off to Home Depot now ... does this look like a
decent supply list for the electrical connections?

A. 3 feet of ½" conduit <== currently it's all 1" conduit
B. A straight ½" to ½" fitting <== currently it's a ½ to 3/4"
C. 3 feet of 12 AWG stranded copper wire (black, red, and green)
D. A double-wide junction box with ½" holes (mine has 3/4 inch holes)
E. Wire nuts for 23AWG stranded wire (mine are stranded of unknown AWG)

[Oren]

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 15:22:24 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<da...@dontemailthis.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 07:38:14 -0700 Oren wrote:
>
>> Looks like Teflon was used.
>> The blue glue seems to be an attempt to
>> patch the leak.
>
>You're totally right because I was the one who tried
>the blue stuff a year or two ago to stop the leak.
>

Valdalia onions are in season, Huckleberries?

>Needless to say, it didn't work.
>

Well yes.

>Interestingly, the blue PVC glue didn't really stick
>at all to the (probably ABS) black pump plastic. It
>flaked off easily - and you can see it didn't penetrate
>to the fitting threads in this closeup photo which
>was taken before I flaked cleaned it off the fitting.
> http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/12818331/img/12818331.jpg
>

It won't STICK to all those mineral deposits, either :)

>I called Sky Blue Pool Supply, who suggested "Plumbers
>Silicone" at $7/tube as the pipe dope for the fitting.
>

...silicone sealer

Pliable, non-hardening or semi-hardening. Think vibration.

See my other link for Tru-Blu

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 09:08:24 -0700 Oren wrote:

> It won't STICK to all those mineral deposits, either

Linking to the toilet-bowl cleaning thread, I'm actually
considering dumping the entire pump in a pool of muriatic
acid - but I'm plumb out of it at the moment.

I'll pick up four more gallons today of the HCl.

What do you think of me dumping the pool pump in it?
I don't see any metal in the pump body.

[SMS]

On 4/30/2013 8:00 AM, Danny D. wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 06:49:18 -0700 sms wrote:
>
>> Did you call Ewing? It's not in their catalog but they might have it.
>> <http://www.ewing1.com/general/ews_locationmap.html?branch=166>
>
> Funny you should mention Ewing!
>
> RV Cloud Plumbing Supply, apparently just around the corner from
> Ewing, had recommended them yesterday; but I couldn't find their
> location while driving based on RV Cloud's directions.

I think you can actually see Ewing from the back of RV Cloud but getting
there is confusing.

> I ended up asking someone on the street, who directed me to Lane
> Irrigation instead, apparently only a few hundred yards from
> Ewing, where I ended up buying the coupling and bushing.
>
> After reading your message just now, I called Ewing up this morning;
> I talked to Paul who says that they have the exact 2.5 inch to 2 inch
> coupling that I want, and, it's less than 3 bucks to boot!
>
> Sheeesh!

What's the downside of the coupling plus bushing?

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 09:20:27 -0700 SMS wrote:

> What's the downside of the coupling plus bushing?

I'm thinking that it's two joints to go bad, instead of
just one.

[Oren]

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 15:54:53 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<da...@dontemailthis.com> wrote:

>If their white silicone is the same as mine in that photo
>above, I probably have enough. But I'll look at HD today for
>the Tru-Blu because it seems to be the right stuff from your
>description (plus, you know huckleberries!).

I would not use that tube of clear silicone for the job. That is meant
as a tub and tile sealer.

The Tru-Blu stated it supports 10,000 liquid PSI. Gas at 2,600 PSI.

...fast dry, flex / pliable, non-hardening is what I would use.

[tra...@optonline.net]

Yeah, that's true. But properly done, the probability of a
PVC joint leaking is extremely low. I can't think of a single
one I've done that has leaked. The alternative, wasting
God knows how much time looking for a fitting that
avoids one more joint doesn't seem very appealing.

[tra...@optonline.net]

I'm considering dumping you in there.....

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 09:38:57 -0700 tra...@optonline.net wrote:

>> What do you think of me dumping the pool pump in acid?

>
> I'm considering dumping you in there.....

I promise I'll wear gloves (nitrile!).

:)

[Oren]

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 09:05:19 -0700 (PDT), "tra...@optonline.net"
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote:

>I would just use teflon tape

His photo clearly shows the fitting didn't have enough Teflon tape on
the thread - none on the end of the threads.

...betting it has leaked from shortly after install.

[Oren]

You might get by with the strainer and volute - nothing else. The
motor, bearings, and impeller gets mad about it.

Use an old Windex bottle / sprayer and brush the minerals off. Rinse.

No real need to run with the dark horses today, Danny.