home theatre virgin
Poh Ser Hsu
Mark Shannon wrote:
>
> I am putting together a home theatre system and would appreciate any
> recommendations for a centre speaker to compliment the following modest
> setup:
>
> ROTEL RA930AX 2 amp
> YAMAHA DSP E390 sound processor
> PHILIPS VR655 6 head VCR
> MORDAUNT SHORT MS10i main speakers
> JBL CONTROL 1G rear speakers
>
> Is a subwoofer essential ?
>
> tia
> Mark.
A subwoofer is essential, and makes a much bigger impact than a center
channel. Consider our TN1225HO, which takes up only 0.8 sq ft of floor
space, is flat to 25 Hz, and comes with an outboard 250W amplifier with
a Class A 24dB/Oct high & low pass Linkwitz-Riley crossover.
Poh Ser Hsu
Hsu Research
(562)404-3848 FAX
(800)554-0150 Voice
Johnny Y Boey
Poh Ser Hsu wrote:
>
> Mark Shannon wrote:
> >
> > I am putting together a home theatre system and would appreciate any
> > recommendations for a centre speaker to compliment the following modest
> > setup:
> >
> > ROTEL RA930AX 2 amp
> > YAMAHA DSP E390 sound processor
> > PHILIPS VR655 6 head VCR
> > MORDAUNT SHORT MS10i main speakers
> > JBL CONTROL 1G rear speakers
> >
> > Is a subwoofer essential ?
> >
> > tia
> > Mark.
>
> A subwoofer is essential, and makes a much bigger impact than a center
> channel.
Impact, yes. Importance, hell no!!!
JB
Michael Spurgeon
Johnny Y Boey <jb...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<33B5A8...@ix.netcom.com>...
> Poh Ser Hsu wrote:
> >
> > Mark Shannon wrote:
> > >
> > > I am putting together a home theatre system and would appreciate any
> > > recommendations for a centre speaker to compliment the following
modest
> > > setup:
SNIP
> > >
> > > Is a subwoofer essential ?
> > >
> > > tia
> > > Mark.
> >
> > A subwoofer is essential, and makes a much bigger impact than a center
> > channel.
>
> Impact, yes. Importance, hell no!!!
>
> JB
It would depend upon the importance you place on "impact." JB, from his
statement, doesn't place importance on impact. However, in respectful
disagreement, many of us HT enthusiasts place a lot of importance on impact
and to us, subwoofers are VERY important. IMHO, its is not possible to
have too much subwoofage for the sake of realism in HT. When the T-Rex
takes a heavy step in Jurassic Park, I like to feel it happening, in
Terminator when the wrecker falls into the aquaduct and later explodes, I
like to experience it. In the arclight (spelling?) segment of Apocalypse
Now I like some realism to big bombs exploding that were dropped from high
altitude B-52's. Even Casper is much more enjoyable with a subwoofer. An
accurate center channel speaker is essential for speech and subwoofers are
essential for the impact that improves the HT realism for some of us.
Mike Spurgeon
Johnny Y Boey
But if you have a truly impactful speaker like the VR4, a sub is no
where as valuable as a quality center. I like impact too, but it has to
be realistic with good neutrality.
JB
Johnny Y Boey
John Mondo wrote:
>
> Johnny Y Boey wrote:
> >
> > Poh Ser Hsu wrote:
> > >
> > > Mark Shannon wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I am putting together a home theatre system and would appreciate any
> > > > recommendations for a centre speaker to compliment the following modest
> > > > setup:
> > > >
> > > > YAMAHA DSP E390 sound processor
> > > > PHILIPS VR655 6 head VCR
> > > > MORDAUNT SHORT MS10i main speakers
> > > > JBL CONTROL 1G rear speakers
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > tia
> > > > Mark.
> > >
> > > A subwoofer is essential, and makes a much bigger impact than a center
> > > channel.
> >
> > Impact, yes. Importance, hell no!!!
> >
> > JB
>
> impact than a center channel ?
literally, it does. However, you can do without a sub, especially if
your mains have good bass extension. And if your taste runs on the
neutrality, more realistic side, and you're not after no-holds-barred
bass attack, a subwoofer becomes just a luxury.
JB
Tim
Mike : I agree absolutely. In J-Park, when the dinosaur walks and the
people look at their cups and see the circles forming in the water, I
get the same effect with a big, angry sub-woof. I haven't seen even the
best center channel speaker do that. And say what you will, part of the
joy of HT (for me anyway) is being able to immerse yourself in the sound
and the action.
Michael Spurgeon wrote:
>
> Johnny Y Boey <jb...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
> <33B5A8...@ix.netcom.com>...
> > Poh Ser Hsu wrote:
> > >
> > > Mark Shannon wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I am putting together a home theatre system and would appreciate any
> > > > recommendations for a centre speaker to compliment the following
> modest
> > > > setup:
> SNIP
> > > >
> > > > Is a subwoofer essential ?
> > > >
> > > > tia
> > > > Mark.
> > >
> > > A subwoofer is essential, and makes a much bigger impact than a center
> > > channel.
> >
> > Impact, yes. Importance, hell no!!!
> >
> > JB
>
> It would depend upon the importance you place on "impact." JB, from his
> statement, doesn't place importance on impact. However, in respectful
> disagreement, many of us HT enthusiasts place a lot of importance on impact
> and to us, subwoofers are VERY important. IMHO, its is not possible to
> have too much subwoofage for the sake of realism in HT. When the T-Rex
> takes a heavy step in Jurassic Park, I like to feel it happening, in
> Terminator when the wrecker falls into the aquaduct and later explodes, I
> like to experience it. In the arclight (spelling?) segment of Apocalypse
> Now I like some realism to big bombs exploding that were dropped from high
> altitude B-52's. Even Casper is much more enjoyable with a subwoofer. An
> accurate center channel speaker is essential for speech and subwoofers are
> essential for the impact that improves the HT realism for some of us.
>
> Mike Spurgeon
--
Tim Conde
American Pacific / Sunscape Homes
"Est mihi nulluus nummus superfluus."
Please remove the word NOSPAM to reply to email.
Johnny Y Boey
Tim wrote:
>
> Mike : I agree absolutely. In J-Park, when the dinosaur walks and the
> people look at their cups and see the circles forming in the water, I
> get the same effect with a big, angry sub-woof. I haven't seen even the
> best center channel speaker do that. And say what you will, part of the
> joy of HT (for me anyway) is being able to immerse yourself in the sound
> and the action.
>
Now lets say you have a pair of mains with good bass extension, would
you sacrifice the sub or the center? Definitely the sub for me, and a
no-brainer for AC3 and DTS.
Bottom line, a good center is more important than a good sub.
JB
Johnny Y Boey
AndersonRM wrote:
>
> In article <33B7E0...@ix.netcom.com>, Johnny Y Boey
> <jb...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>
> >literally, it does. However, you can do without a sub, especially if
> >your mains have good bass extension. And if your taste runs on the
> >neutrality, more realistic side, and you're not after no-holds-barred
> >bass attack, a subwoofer becomes just a luxury.
>
>
> down to 20hz with no dropoff, then they are adequite to do the job of a
> really good sub.
NOT TRUE!!
There are maybe 0.01% of movies in the market that has significant bass
below 30Hz.
> Having said that, be aware that the more low-bass impact your system is
> capable of providing, the less higher frequency information you will
> actually
> hear. The reason is that low frequency information sometimes overwhelmes
> higher frequency sounds.
You are totally clueless about high end audio. It is evident from this
statement alone. High end audio is all about accurate and neutral
reproduction of sound. I sure don't want too excess bass impact even for
HT, makes it sound extra fake.
JB
Johnny Y Boey
> In article <33b36a21...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>,
> ++edl...@worldnet.att.net (Erik) wrote:
>
> >
> > For a lot of music, no sub is required, but without a separate
> > amplified subwoofer, the deep lows deliberately recorded by the
> > movie-makers, cannot be reproduced by non-amplified woofers.
1) It is common knowledge that it is much much easier to find music with
significant 20Hz bass than movies.
2) If you're anywhere near Baton Rouge, LA, in the future, please drop
by my home. I will show you that a sub is absolutely not necessary in my
12x17 room with a pair of Von Schweikert VR4 driven by a Krell KSA250.
JB
AndersonRM
>literally, it does. However, you can do without a sub, especially if
>your mains have good bass extension. And if your taste runs on the
>neutrality, more realistic side, and you're not after no-holds-barred
>bass attack, a subwoofer becomes just a luxury.
Let's put numbers to it. If your main speakers are capable of reproducing
down to 20hz with no dropoff, then they are adequite to do the job of a
really good sub. However, there are virtually no main speakers that can
do that and if you want it (to get everything out of the soundtrack) then
get
really good sub. Granted, there are only a few discs (DVD or laser) which
provide information for 20hz notes, but if cost is not that important, you
might
as well hear what they put in there.
Having said that, be aware that the more low-bass impact your system is
capable of providing, the less higher frequency information you will
actually
hear. The reason is that low frequency information sometimes overwhelmes
higher frequency sounds. You can see this by using the low-med-max
dynamic range levels on a DD processor. If you cut the dynamic range
down to "low" or whatever it's called on yours, and turn the system up to
THX levels, you will hear a fairly substantial increase in
higher-frequency
detail.
-Rich
David DeYoung
In article <33B832...@ix.netcom.com>, jb...@ix.netcom.com says...
(Snip)
>
>Now lets say you have a pair of mains with good bass extension, would
>you sacrifice the sub or the center? Definitely the sub for me, and a
>no-brainer for AC3 and DTS.
>
>Bottom line, a good center is more important than a good sub.
>JB
This is obviously a matter of taste! I ran a HT system without
either center or sub for the past 10 years. I had good base on the
mains so I thought I was happy. I never had a problem with dialogue
coming from the mains either. I recently changed out everything on my
system; adding both a center and a sub. I have an ac3 receiver, but no
ac3 source so I can't speak to ac3, BUT, in my opinion, the sub made a
way bigger positive difference than the center.
Johnny Y Boey
Reasons:
1) you don't have mains with great bass extension driven by a real
potent amp.
2) you don't have AC3. Ever heard of discrete center?
JB
Erik
>
>If I had to chose, get a good center first (assuming your mains go down
>reasonably low) and add a sub second. Effects are great but don't mean
>much if the dialogue is not intelligible.
I just think it's interesting that we want good clear dialogue... but
in movies like Jurassic Park? I can think of only a handful movies
that actually combine incredible dialogue with incredible soundtracks.
Most movies that truly warrant the big-buck HT setups have a pretty
poor storyline... the dialogue is really secondary to the car chases,
explosions, or dinosaurs... and that's why I think a sub is absolutely
necessary in an HT setup. If I was just starting out, I'd buy a sub
first, just for the theater-like experience. In the end, of course,
every speaker is equally important.
Erik
(remove ++ from address to e-mail)
AndersonRM
In article <33B856...@ix.netcom.com>, Johnny Y Boey
<jb...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>> Having said that, be aware that the more low-bass impact your system is
>> capable of providing, the less higher frequency information you will
>> actually
>> hear. The reason is that low frequency information sometimes
overwhelmes
>> higher frequency sounds.
>
>
>You are totally clueless about high end audio. It is evident from this
>statement alone. High end audio is all about accurate and neutral
>reproduction of sound. I sure don't want too excess bass impact even for
>HT, makes it sound extra fake.
>
>
Why not read what I said. I said low frequency information (that's bass)
sometimes overwhelmes high-frequency information. I didn't say I endorse
that effect. When you finish ranting about neutral reproduction of sound,
realize that quite a few lasers over-emphasize bass and this has nothing
to do with the equipment used to play it. I understand you don't like
excess
bass, but if the T-Rex doesn't produce sub 30hz info on your system, then
you should consider new equipment. If you check WSR's movie reviews, you
will see that quite a few say the movie's contain bass at 25 hz or below.
BTW, fake is an absolute term, there's no such thing as "extra."
-Rich
AndersonRM
In article <5p9rom$l...@phoenix.nlci.com>, ddey...@pop.nlci.com (David
DeYoung) writes:
> This is obviously a matter of taste! I ran a HT system without
>either center or sub for the past 10 years.
If you did run AC3 your would hear NO voices unless you set your
center channel to phantom. Presumably, you purchased a center channel
for a reason. If you have mains with decent extension, you do not need a
sub, but
going without a center defeats the purpose of the greater channel
separation
of AC3 or DTS vrs. Pro-Logic.
-Rich
Johnny Boey
AndersonRM wrote:
>
If you check WSR's movie reviews, you
> will see that quite a few say the movie's contain bass at 25 hz or below.
FACT #1: 25Hz and below bass is minute in at least 99.99% of movies
FACT #2: they never measured, they are speculating, and you buy it.
JB
AndersonRM
In article <33B91C...@ix.netcom.com>, Johnny Boey
<jb...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>> will see that quite a few say the movie's contain bass at 25 hz or
below.
>
>
>
>FACT #1: 25Hz and below bass is minute in at least 99.99% of movies
>
>FACT #2: they never measured, they are speculating, and you buy it.
>
>
I take it you measured? What type of spectrum analyser do you use?
Hewlett Packard or Tektronics? Which models?
-Rich
Johnny Boey
AndersonRM wrote:
>
> In article <33B856...@ix.netcom.com>, Johnny Y Boey
> <jb...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>
> >> Having said that, be aware that the more low-bass impact your system is
> >> capable of providing, the less higher frequency information you will
> >> actually
> >> hear. The reason is that low frequency information sometimes
> overwhelmes
> >> higher frequency sounds.
> >
> >
> >You are totally clueless about high end audio. It is evident from this
> >statement alone. High end audio is all about accurate and neutral
> >reproduction of sound. I sure don't want too excess bass impact even for
> >HT, makes it sound extra fake.
> >
> >
>
> Why not read what I said. I said low frequency information (that's bass)
> sometimes overwhelmes high-frequency information. I didn't say I endorse
> that effect. When you finish ranting about neutral reproduction of sound,
>
> realize that quite a few lasers over-emphasize bass and this has nothing
> to do with the equipment used to play it. I understand you don't like
> excess
> bass, but if the T-Rex doesn't produce sub 30hz info on your system, then
> you should consider new equipment.
I know one thing for sure, the TRex produces MUCH MORE 30Hz and below
bass info in my system than yours?
Why? Three letters: DTS.
JB
CRGoddard
Hope you don't mind my chiming in but I too sacrificed the sub and got a
center first because I had mains with decent extension. Thought and still
do think it was the right decision for me. Made it easier to concentrate
on the movie when I was sitting far left or right (which sometimes happens
when watching the Disney movies with the kids).
Andy Kromkamp
In article <33B82A...@amerNOSPAMpac.com>,
Tim <T...@amerNOSPAMpac.com> wrote:
>Mike : I agree absolutely. In J-Park, when the dinosaur walks and the
>people look at their cups and see the circles forming in the water, I
>get the same effect with a big, angry sub-woof. I haven't seen even the
>best center channel speaker do that. And say what you will, part of the
>joy of HT (for me anyway) is being able to immerse yourself in the sound
>
and the action.
>
Well, the center channel is not likely going to give you any thump :-)
If you want thump, go pick up some transducers and slap 'em under the
couch, you'll get thump... :-)
Andy K.
Erik
On Wed, 2 Jul 1997 03:31:34 GMT, kro...@ecf.toronto.edu (Andy
Kromkamp) wrote:
>To take the discussion along this tangent, if the only reason your watching
>movies is for explosions and car chases, your a)watching the wrong movies,
>or b)watching them for the wrong reason.
I'd say that most (?) of this group watches many movies for the wrong
reasons, and I'm often one of them. This is my point. High-budget
systems often cater to high-budget movies like Batman or Cut Throat
Island which have great sound, but little plot. Why do we watch these
movies at home -- the sound. It can't be the picture, unless you have
a 35mm projector and a movie screen.
>The gear required for a home theatre experience is all crap if your watchin
>a bad movie. OTOH, a good HT setup can take a good movie and make it
>GREAT.
As I said, Batman and Cut Throat are bad movies, and my system is all
crap when I watch these movies. Yes, otherwise mediocre flicks such
as ID4, are vastly improved by a good HT setup. And great movies like
Braveheart or The Fugative don't lose their appeal when viewed at home
on a good setup.
Paul Dossett
Anthony Siino (jetta...@aol.com) said:
>In article <ECo9s...@ecf.toronto.edu>, kro...@ecf.toronto.edu (Andy
>Kromkamp) wrote:
>> To take the discussion along this tangent, if the only reason your
>> watching movies is for explosions and car chases, your a)watching the
>> wrong movies, or b)watching them for the wrong reason.
>Wrong movies? Wrong reasons? IMO, action/adventure/sci-fi flics are the
>genres that make HT fun. Try watching ID4 on a 20" set with no surround.
>A decent HT can actually make a so-so film watchable.
I dunno.. I found ID4 to be unwatchable on my 33" screen with full Pro-Logic
surround, where Twister was good fun (though it's a hopelessy stupid film).
Big sound and pretty pictures can only take a film so far, but I will concur
that a home theatre can make rubbish films at least vaguely entertaining.
>> The gear required for a home theatre experience is all crap if your
>> watchin a bad movie. OTOH, a good HT setup can take a good movie and make
>> it GREAT.
>HT does nothing for a great film like Casablanca.
If it brings you closer to the cinema experience, then yes it does.
>> Case in Point: Face/Off, and Mission Impossible (the two movies I just
>> watched :-) ) both are fantastic movies with a great story, yet each ALSO
>> have fantastic F/X and sound (esp. MI, holy crap!).
>IMO, M1 had a weak story.
M1? Isn't that an English motorway?
--
Paul Dossett
Editor of The Australian Independent Guide to Home Theatre
http://netspace.net.au/~astroboy/ht
Erik
>
>
>The center channel is more than dialog, it's the whole midrange. It
>contains all the subtleties there is, and there are plenty of that in
>Jurassic Park, like lots of background noise besides voices, screams.
>You never notice cause you don't have a quality center.
So, you've seen my system? It's not the baddest around, but the
Paradigm CC-350, I think, is a great center channel.
Anthony Agpaoa
Johnny Boey <jb...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> Erik
>> (remove ++ from address to e-mail)
>
>
>
>The center channel is more than dialog, it's the whole midrange. It
>contains all the subtleties there is, and there are plenty of that in
>Jurassic Park, like lots of background noise besides voices, screams.
>You never notice cause you don't have a quality center.
>
>About a sub, I definitely don't need one in my 12x17 room with the VR4
>driven by a Krell KSA250. Seriously...
>
>
>JB
I thought your Krell deal fell through.
P.S. Did you sell your Chiro's?
The packet goes out the card, into the copper, out the router,
onto the fiber, across the world, thru the copper............
NOTHING BUT NET.