Advice?
AfroAllen
research have settled on the following setup:
Receiver: Denon AVR-1803
Fronts: JBL N38II
Center: JBL S-Center II
Rears: JBL N26II
Sub: JBL PowerBass 12"
I just wanted to get any opinions on this setup (like if the speakers
don't go together or don't go well with the receiver, etc.). I
already have the TV and DVD player (36" Toshiba flatscreen & cheap RCA
dvd player). Just wanted affirmation from other people that this is a
good purchase before I make the plunge...
Ransack The Elder
Paradigm
PSB
B&W
Axiom
Any of these will sound much better for the same or less money.
"AfroAllen" <afro...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b614aabb.03011...@posting.google.com...
matt meyer
Ransack The Elder
"matt meyer" <mmey...@new.rr.com> wrote in message
news:7K3W9.42274$Gm2.7...@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> That set up will sound good dude. Don't let the elitists tell you
different.
Not everybody is happy with mediocrity.
Why eat baloney when you can eat filet mignon for the same price?
RJ
brands you recommend?
Ransack The Elder
speaker you want.
"RJ" <a...@blanca.com> wrote in message news:3E2981AD...@blanca.com...
RJ
you might atleast be able to suggest "specific" speakers that out perform the
JBLs.
I now understand you made a BLANKET statement, saying ALL of the speakers
offered by the brands you mentioned, are better than the JBL mentioned.
hmmmm... anyone else find this advice suspect?
Ransack The Elder
"RJ" <a...@blanca.com> wrote in message news:3E299A35...@blanca.com...
> I thought because you definitively slammed the specific JBL speakers
mentioned,
> you might atleast be able to suggest "specific" speakers that out perform
the
> JBLs.
Well, what do you want? Sound quality or sheer volume?
The JBL's you are looking at are a cheap, loud speaker. It's a floorstander
that sells for less than $200. That right there tells you right off that the
components are made as cheaply as possible. It's designed to look big, not
sound good. You'll get better sound QUALITY from a set of Paradigm Atoms or
B&W 303's.. You might not get the sheer SPL, but the quality will far
surpass the JBL's.
RJ
> Well, what do you want? Sound quality or sheer volume?
>
> The JBL's you are looking at are a cheap, loud speaker. It's a floorstander
> that sells for less than $200. That right there tells you right off that the
> components are made as cheaply as possible. It's designed to look big, not
> sound good. You'll get better sound QUALITY from a set of Paradigm Atoms or
> B&W 303's.. You might not get the sheer SPL, but the quality will far
> surpass the JBL's.
Perhaps you could expand on your advice and comment with any blind test studies
you have conducted?
It's just sounding more and more like you have a chip on your shoulder regarding
JBL. Certainly if you have blindly evaluated any of the brands you suggest and
those you advice against, that specific info would be greatly appreciated. JBL,
like any manufacture, produces both good and bad enclosures. But to dismiss JBL
products out of hand, as being inferior to the brands you suggest, is suspect.
Ransack The Elder
"RJ" <a...@blanca.com> wrote in message news:3E29AC00...@blanca.com...
> Ransack The Elder wrote:
>
> > Well, what do you want? Sound quality or sheer volume?
> >
> > The JBL's you are looking at are a cheap, loud speaker. It's a
floorstander
> > that sells for less than $200. That right there tells you right off that
the
> > components are made as cheaply as possible. It's designed to look big,
not
> > sound good. You'll get better sound QUALITY from a set of Paradigm Atoms
or
> > B&W 303's.. You might not get the sheer SPL, but the quality will far
> > surpass the JBL's.
>
> Perhaps you could expand on your advice and comment with any blind test
studies
> you have conducted?
I feel like I'd be wasting by breath by explaining my findings. You've
already made up your mind to buy the JBL's, and if like the sloppy sound
then go for it. After all, I'm not the one who has to listen to them.
>
> It's just sounding more and more like you have a chip on your shoulder
regarding
> JBL. Certainly if you have blindly evaluated any of the brands you suggest
and
> those you advice against, that specific info would be greatly appreciated.
JBL,
> like any manufacture, produces both good and bad enclosures. But to
dismiss JBL
> products out of hand, as being inferior to the brands you suggest, is
suspect.
Again, for some reason you've made up your mind to get 'flea market'
speakers and you don't seem to want to budge. Go ahead. Like I said, I'm not
the one who will be listening to them, so I don't give a flying shit what
you buy. Just keep this conversation in mind next year when your tastes
mature and you're selling the JBL's to buy better speakers.
Shrivel
"RJ" <a...@blanca.com> wrote in message news:3E29AC00...@blanca.com...
> Ransack The Elder wrote:
>
> > Well, what do you want? Sound quality or sheer volume?
> >
> > The JBL's you are looking at are a cheap, loud speaker. It's a
floorstander
> > that sells for less than $200. That right there tells you right off that
the
> > components are made as cheaply as possible. It's designed to look big,
not
> > sound good. You'll get better sound QUALITY from a set of Paradigm Atoms
or
> > B&W 303's.. You might not get the sheer SPL, but the quality will far
> > surpass the JBL's.
>
> Perhaps you could expand on your advice and comment with any blind test
studies
> you have conducted?
I've never heard the particular speaker you are looking at, but I don't
think RTE is speaking from any kinda grudge against JBL or anything or the
sort. JBL makes some fine speakers, but this series is not what I'd number
among them. Take a look at the specs:
Impedance: 8 Ohms
Sensitivity (2.83V @ 1m): 90dB
Frequency Response (-3dB): 45Hz - 20kHz
Crossover Frequency(ies): 1000Hz, 5000Hz
High-Frequency Driver: 3/4" Titanium-laminate dome with EOST waveguide
Midrange Driver: 4" PolyPlasT cone
Low-Frequency Driver: 8" PolyPlasT cone
Dimensions
(H x W x D): 34" x 10-1/2" x 11-7/8"
(864mm x 267mm x 302mm)
Weight: 35 lb (15.9kg)
The low-end is 45Hz. That for the -3dB rating, which means it's
probably flat to only around 50Hz. That's WAY high for an 8 inch driver in
an enclosure that size - if they were designing the speaker for that
frequency range, there's absolutely NO need to have an enclosure that large.
That spec backs up RTE's determination that these speakers were designed to
"look big." Also, the crossover frequencies are in odd places for the
driver sizes. I imagine this speaker will sound "muddy" at best. If you're
interested in impressing your friends with the sheer size of your speakers,
then by all means go for it, but if you're truly serious about having an
awesome home theater that you'll be satisfied with for years, personally I'd
look elsewhere.
Combine RTE's recommended B&W's with a solid sub and you'll outperform
these speakers in both sound quality AND volume for around the same price.
RJ
Shrivel wrote:
So, you haven't heard the enclosures either yet have "determined" they are not
worth being considered. All RTE has offered are the highly technical terms,
"flea market" "sloppy sounding", instead of actually presenting some evidence
that these JBL speakers actually under perform anything. Even your evaluation
of the raw specs, while they might suggest a different approach in the design,
do not condemn these enclosures.
I simply feel the original poster is entitled to sound advice based on some
experience. RTE did not demonstrate any actual experience upon which he based
his criticism. Even now he has lost his temper and resorted to foul language
rather than offer substantive info to back up his remarks. Surely anyone but a
sheep should expect.
RJ
> I feel like I'd be wasting by breath by explaining my findings. You've
> already made up your mind to buy the JBL's, and if like the sloppy sound
> then go for it. After all, I'm not the one who has to listen to them.
> Again, for some reason you've made up your mind to get 'flea market'
> speakers and you don't seem to want to budge. Go ahead. Like I said, I'm not
> the one who will be listening to them, so I don't give a flying shit what
> you buy. Just keep this conversation in mind next year when your tastes
> mature and you're selling the JBL's to buy better speakers.
You are wasting your breath so long as you avoid offering any really info upon
which one can evaluate your recommendation.
I did not say I liked the JBL enclosures. Rather I am challenging you to be
specific in your condemnation of the series and how the other brands
outperformed the JBLs.
It is still is not apparent to this reader, that you know anything about these
JBL enclosures, or if there are other JBL enclosures the original poster might
consider. From your wonderful technical terms of "flea market" & "sloppy
sounding", it still appears your recommendation is entirely subjective and
without out merit. Except it is clear you don't like JBL.
I do not mean to piss you off, but you do need to defend your comments with more
than what appears to be an uninformed bias and profanity.
matt meyer
not
worth being considered. All RTE has offered are the highly technical terms,
"flea market" "sloppy sounding", instead of actually presenting some
evidence
that these JBL speakers actually under perform anything. Even your
evaluation
of the raw specs, while they might suggest a different approach in the
design,
do not condemn these enclosures.
I simply feel the original poster is entitled to sound advice based on some
experience. RTE did not demonstrate any actual experience upon which he
based
his criticism. Even now he has lost his temper and resorted to foul language
rather than offer substantive info to back up his remarks. Surely anyone but
a
sheep should expect."
WORD UP!
Ransack The Elder
"RJ" <a...@blanca.com> wrote in message news:3E29D435...@blanca.com...
> Ransack The Elder wrote:
>
> > I feel like I'd be wasting by breath by explaining my findings. You've
> > already made up your mind to buy the JBL's, and if like the sloppy sound
> > then go for it. After all, I'm not the one who has to listen to them.
>
> > Again, for some reason you've made up your mind to get 'flea market'
> > speakers and you don't seem to want to budge. Go ahead. Like I said, I'm
not
> > the one who will be listening to them, so I don't give a flying shit
what
> > you buy. Just keep this conversation in mind next year when your tastes
> > mature and you're selling the JBL's to buy better speakers.
>
> You are wasting your breath so long as you avoid offering any really info
upon
> which one can evaluate your recommendation.
What more info do you need other than what I've already provided??
JBL:
Cheap drivers.
Cheap crossovers.
Cheap enclosures.
Paradigm/PSB/B&W:
Made better.
Sound better.
WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT????
If you disagree, please provide proof that these JBL speakers are made
better, and sound better. If you can't do that, excuse yourself from the
conversation.
Ransack The Elder
You've now been presented with the facts from TWO qualified speaker
authorities, and you still think those $200 JBL's will outperform anything
on the planet.
If you're that stupid, go buy them. I don't care. I don't have to be the one
listening to them.
"RJ" <a...@blanca.com> wrote in message news:3E29D219...@blanca.com...
RJ
> You've now been presented with the facts from TWO qualified speaker
> authorities, and you still think those $200 JBL's will outperform anything
> on the planet.
What qualifications do you have?
Neither you or the other person who posted, responded with facts. At best I have
heard assumptions based on printed technical specs of the enclosures in
question. Printed technical specs are hardly the foundation of any proof on the
matter. You have yet to provide even technical specs upon which you based your
comments. However, your presentation is colorful which might go a long way is
selling some banger on a "bling-bling" audio system.
I was as least expecting to hear you say... "I owned a set of JBL enclosures and
they sucked." Or maybe, "A good friend of mine owned a set of JBL enclosures,
and I practically blew chunks listening to them."
Nice try shifting the burden onto my shoulders. I never claimed JBL enclosures
were the best on the planet. I challenged YOU in your remarks. The more you
post on JBL, "cheap drivers, crossover, enclosures", it's obvious you don't have
a clue and simply try to win over list readers with your charm.
The original poster sought advice. You offered only unsubstantiated bias. You
could have suggested he audition the JBL enclosures against the brands you
prefer, but I assume only a "moron" is capable of thinking of that advice.
You are quite the "qualified speaker authority". Again, what is it that makes
you an authority?
Ransack The Elder
"RJ" <a...@blanca.com> wrote in message news:3E29F9F1...@blanca.com...
> Ransack The Elder wrote:
>
> > You've now been presented with the facts from TWO qualified speaker
> > authorities, and you still think those $200 JBL's will outperform
anything
> > on the planet.
>
> What qualifications do you have?
12 years in the speaker industry. You?
>
> I was as least expecting to hear you say... "I owned a set of JBL
enclosures and
> they sucked." Or maybe, "A good friend of mine owned a set of JBL
enclosures,
> and I practically blew chunks listening to them."
No, I knew enough beforehand to not go as far as actually buying a set.
Common sense prevailed..you should check into it.
RJ
> 12 years in the speaker industry. You?
25 years as audio/video/music engineer/producer with regional Emmy's and the
whole 9 yards. I have built a number of recording studios, attended way to many
AES and NAB conventions to count, and know well what JBL is capable of as a
manufacturer. Certainly there are many fine speaker enclosure manufactures, and
JBL is definitely one of them. Granted everything JBL markets is not the best
in it's market position, but then again that's not the issue here. The issue
was "clarity" on why you recommended the other brands over the JBL enclosures
mentioned. It became obvious that you had never even auditioned the JBL
enclosures, and failed to provide even a shred of proof for your bias. And come
on, you do have a bias against JBL. And while you are certainly entitled to
your opinion, you will not go unchallenged representing yourself as an
authority, while presenting your negative bias toward JBL.
By the way, with what part of the industry are you associated? Manufacturer?
I would simply challenge you as a 12 year veteran of the speaker industry, to
cast any unfounded biases aside and deal in the realm of fact and subjective
observation. If you have auditioned a particular JBL enclosure and found it
lacking, that is a worth finding to report. However, if you propose a
particular JBL product to be lacking having never even heard the enclosure, you
do the list and your professional experience a disservice.
Now I might be an assh*le, but I'm not a moron. ;-)
Shrivel
"RJ" <a...@blanca.com> wrote in message news:3E2A2586...@blanca.com...
> Ransack The Elder wrote:
>
> > 12 years in the speaker industry. You?
>
> 25 years as audio/video/music engineer/producer with regional Emmy's and
the
> whole 9 yards. I have built a number of recording studios, attended way to
many
> AES and NAB conventions to count, and know well what JBL is capable of as
a
> manufacturer. Certainly there are many fine speaker enclosure
manufactures, and
> JBL is definitely one of them. Granted everything JBL markets is not the
best
> in it's market position, but then again that's not the issue here. The
issue
> was "clarity" on why you recommended the other brands over the JBL
enclosures
> mentioned. It became obvious that you had never even auditioned the JBL
> enclosures, and failed to provide even a shred of proof for your bias. And
come
> on, you do have a bias against JBL. And while you are certainly entitled
to
> your opinion, you will not go unchallenged representing yourself as an
> authority, while presenting your negative bias toward JBL.
Now your JBL leanings are clearer - you're more familiar with the JBL
professional loudspeakers and studio monitors. That's a whole different
ballgame. The low-end home speakers you've chosen are no comparison to what
you're probably used to hearing.
Personally, I have no problems with the JBL brand in general, but the
speakers you have chosen are very likely the worst of many dozens of a
variety of JBL speakers.
Ransack The Elder
"RJ" <a...@blanca.com> wrote in message news:3E2A2586...@blanca.com...
> Ransack The Elder wrote:
>
> > 12 years in the speaker industry. You?
>
> 25 years as audio/video/music engineer/producer with regional Emmy's and
the
> whole 9 yards. I have built a number of recording studios, attended way to
many
> AES and NAB conventions to count, and know well what JBL is capable of as
a
> manufacturer.
Yes. It's just a shame they can't make their $200 home speakers sound as
good as their studio monitors, no matter how good you say they are. The mass
consumer oriented stuff just does not sound good. They don't even sound as
good as my D130/T75's from 1969....or as good as the pair of GTi 1200
subwoofers in my car. In fact, their $200 speakers (which are actually made
by Harman) have NOTHING in common with the REAL JBL stuff.
RJ
> Personally, I have no problems with the JBL brand in general, but the
> speakers you have chosen are very likely the worst of many dozens of a
> variety of JBL speakers.
Let me just say it again... I did not chose the JBL enclosures. I simply took
issue with RTE.
Ransack The Elder
"RJ" <a...@blanca.com> wrote in message news:3E2A3E6E...@blanca.com...
You got something against me being right? Let me guess..you bought those
speakers and can't stand to hear the truth about them?
JGMcLean0
>Ransack The Elder wrote:
>
>> 12 years in the speaker industry. You?
>
>25 years as audio/video/music
[bunch of mine-is-bigger crap snipped]
The fact that the OP had come up with an all-JBL setup *implied* that he had
assembled his proposed system at a mass-market store, where he was unlikely to
have had the chance to hear the alternatives, which are considered by *many* to
be better speakers for the money. The advice was to seek out and listen to
specific other brands before deciding, which is perfectly appropriate and
useful. In other words, someone came in here seeking good advice, was getting
it, and you derailed the conversation by trying to score debating points.
>Certainly there are many fine speaker enclosure manufactures, and
>JBL is definitely one of them.
And why on earth do you keep talking about "enclosures"? Nobody's buying an
*enclosure*, they're buying a speaker system.
>Now I might be an assh*le, but I'm not a moron. ;-)
At least you're half right.
JGM
seascape
http://www.audioreview.com. Pretty much anyone here that knows better
(speaking from our experience), knows JBL does not come close to competing
with those alternates you listed. When reading consumer reviews, take note
of the experience level of the person writing it. For example, if john/jane
doe wrote the artical and just bought their first audio gear (upgrading from
previous small stereo and/or TV speakers), that person might say something
like. "Wow!!, these are amazing sounding..." etc.. etc.. and be talking
about a new purchased Audiovox (which is well known for their low-end audio
products for very price conscious consumer). Have the same product and a
person that has had a few products and/or done some listening testings and
you would see a VERY different and most likely better review.
"RJ" <a...@blanca.com> wrote in message news:3E29F9F1...@blanca.com...
RJ
> At least you're half right.
>
> JGM
Thanks for comments
RJ
> Look up any & all audio product consumer reviews here:
> http://www.audioreview.com. Pretty much anyone here that knows better
> (speaking from our experience), knows JBL does not come close to competing
> with those alternates you listed. When reading consumer reviews, take note
> of the experience level of the person writing it. For example, if john/jane
> doe wrote the artical and just bought their first audio gear (upgrading from
> previous small stereo and/or TV speakers), that person might say something
> like. "Wow!!, these are amazing sounding..." etc.. etc.. and be talking
> about a new purchased Audiovox (which is well known for their low-end audio
> products for very price conscious consumer). Have the same product and a
> person that has had a few products and/or done some listening testings and
> you would see a VERY different and most likely better review.
Thanks...
Your comments are certainly more compelling than those offered by others.
RJ
> You got something against me being right? Let me guess..you bought those
> speakers and can't stand to hear the truth about them?
Let me help you out 'sack with some big type, so you might be able to better
comprehend my meaning.
I DID NOT BUY THE JBL "speaker system" ORIGINALLY MENTIONED. I DO NOT OWN THE
JBL "speaker system" ORIGINALLY MENTIONED.
My "hijacking" of this thread was due to your JBL bashing, an opinion which is
obviously shared by a few others on the list.
Unfortunately, this advanced form of performance audio lemming disease is not
easily treated as most victims are firmly entrenched in denial.
RJ
http://www.audioreview.com/PRD_124199_4290crx.aspx#reviews
My only comment on the system, I feel you get better HT sound imaging when
using matched enclosures at the L, R, C, LR & RR and a sub of your choice.
I am running pro near field monitors in all of my HT speaker positions and
a sub, and the performance is excellent.
This JBL package certainly does present an impressive foot print.
AfroAllen wrote:
> I am looking to setup a home theater and after having done extensive
> research have settled on the following setup:
>
> Receiver: Denon AVR-1803
> Fronts: JBL N38II
> Center: JBL S-Center II
> Rears: JBL N26II
> Sub: JBL PowerBass 12"
>
> I just wanted to get any opinions on this setup (like if the speakers
> don't go together or don't go well with the receiver, etc.). I
> already have the TV and DVD player (36" Toshiba flatscreen & cheap RCA
> dvd player). Just wanted affirmation from other people that this is a
> good purchase before I make the plunge...
RJ
Yes it is bashing.
In my experience, there are many ways to get better performance out of any
component(s). One thing an A/V shop does well, is integrate a package so that it
shines. The Northridge components when married to a great amp and well placed in
the HT, are more than just a decent system. Maybe not filet, but atleast a nice
chuck roast.
Would the system outperform another of equal value?
Whatever the subjective opinion of a listener might be, some of the methods used by
posters here, are simply strong arm tactics to persuade the weak minded. Any buyer
must beware when presented with the "baloney -versus- filet" sales approach.
Certainly someone can offer critical, esthetic observations which serve to
differentiate one choice from another.
Bill Foster-KSC wrote:
> RJ smashed the following keys:
>
> >My "hijacking" of this thread was due to your JBL bashing, an opinion which is
> >obviously shared by a few others on the list.
>
> Is it bashing if it's essentially accurate?
>
> While I don't condone flaming, the advice given was accurate. Better
> speakers are available for the same money.
>
> >The JBL North ridge series receives great reviews from many owners.
> >
> >http://www.audioreview.com/PRD_124199_4290crx.aspx#reviews
> >
> >This JBL package certainly does present an impressive foot print.
>
> While it's a decent system, and it's better than some, there is still a
> fair bit of room for improvement. Why spend hard-earned dollars and NOT
> get the best bang for your buck?
>
> Better sound quality can be EASILY obtained by visiting a shop that
> specializes in audio/video equipment. Almost any of the available brands
> have models that can be had for the same or less money, and the bonus is
> better sound.
bryan
Very easy to say that you are something that you are NOT on the
INTERNET!!!
TRUST NO ONE!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
(X-files)
"Ransack The Elder" <no...@noneya.com> wrote in message
news:hunW9.251$bL4....@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
bryan
--
TRUST NO ONE!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
(X-files)