A HISTORY OF THE BIRTH OF SHREE RAM IS WORTH KNOWING
and/or www.mantra.com/jai
Wednesday, December 8, 2010
A history of the birth of Shree Ram is worth knowing.
The author Saroj Bala is in IRS, Commisioner of Income Tax posted at
Delhi and She has worked very hard on her research.
Our very foundations of our faith are in threat and have to be
challenged. the congress govt. denied the existence of lord ram and
on that basis was going to break the bridge of lord ram built.
It is important the educated among us take the lead to save our faith
and values.
- B. L.
The facts about Ram. - Saroj Bala
The story of Shri Ram's life was first narrated by Maharishi Valmiki
in the Ramayan, which was written after Shri Ram was crowned as the
king of Ayodhya. Maharishi Valmiki was a great astronomer as he has
made sequential astronomical references on important dates related to
the life of Shri Ram indicating the location of planets vis-a-vis
zodiac constellations and the other stars (nakshatras). Needless to
add that similar position of planets and nakshatras is not repeated
in thousands of years. By entering the precise details of the
planetary configuration of the important events in the life of Shri
Ram as given in the Valmiki Ramayan in the software named
"Planetarium" corresponding exact dates of these events according to
the English calendar can be known.
Mr Pushkar Bhatnagar of the Indian Revenue Service had acquired this
software from the US .. It is used to predict the solar/lunar
eclipses and distance and location of other planets from earth. He
entered the relevant details about the planetary positions narrated
by Maharishi Valmiki and obtained very interesting and convincing
results, which almost determine the important dates starting from the
birth of Shri Ram to the date of his coming back to Ayodhya after 14
years of exile.
Maharishi Valmiki has recorded in Bal Kaand sarga 19 and shloka eight
and nine (1/18/8,9) that Shri Ram was born on ninth tithi of Chaitra
month when the position of different planets vis-a-vis zodiac
constellations and nakshatras (visible stars) were: i) Sun in Aries;
ii) Saturn in Libra; iii) Jupiter in Cancer; iv) Venus in Pisces; v)
Mars in Capricorn; vi) Lunar month of Chaitra; vii) Ninth day after
no moon; viii) Lagna as Cancer (cancer was rising in the east); ix)
Moon on the Punarvasu (Gemini constellation & Pllux star); x) Day
time (around noon).
This data was fed into the software. The results indicated that this
was exactly the location of planets/stars in the noon of January 10,
5114 BCE. Thus Shri Ram was born on January 10, 5114 BCE (7121 years
back). As per the Indian calendar it was the ninth day of Shukla
Paksha in Chaitra month and the time was around 12 to 1 noontime.
This is exactly the time and date when Ram Navmi is celebrated all
over India .
Shri Ram was born in Ayodhya. This fact can be ascertained from
several books written by Indian and foreign authors before and after
the birth of Christ - Valmiki Ramayan, Tulsi Ramayan, Kalidasa's
Raghuvansam, Baudh and Jain literature, etc. These books have
narrated in great detail the location, rich architecture and beauty
of Ayodhya which had many palaces and temples built all over the
kingdom. Ayodhya was located on the banks of the Saryu river with
Ganga and Panchal Pradesh on one side and Mithila on the other side.
Normally 7,000 years is a very long period during which earthquakes,
storms, floods and foreign invasions change the course of rivers,
destroy the towns/buildings and alter the territories. Therefore, the
task of unearthing the facts is monumental. The present Ayodhya has
shrunk in size and the rivers have changed their course about 40 km
north/south.
Shri Ram went out of Ayodhya in his childhood (13th year as per
Valmiki Ramayan) with Rishi Vishwamitra who lived in Tapovan
(Sidhhashram). From there he went to Mithila, King Janaka's kingdom.
Here he married Sita after breaking Shiv Dhanusha. Researchers have
gone along the route adopted by Shri Ram as narrated in the Valmiki
Ramayan and found 23 places which have memorials that commemorate the
events related to the life of Shri Ram. These include Shringi Ashram,
Ramghat, Tadka Van, Sidhhashram, Gautamashram, Janakpur (now in
Nepal), Sita Kund, etc. Memorials are built for great men and not for
fictitious characters.
Date of exile of Shri Ram: It is mentioned in Valmiki Ramayan's
Ayodhya Kand (2/4/18) that Dashratha wanted to make Shri Ram the king
because Sun, Mars and Rahu had surrounded his nakshatra and normally
under such planetary configuration the king dies or becomes a victim
of conspiracies. Dashratha's zodiac sign was Pisces and his nakshatra
was Rewati. This planetary configuration was prevailing on the
January 5, 5089 BCE, and it was on this day that Shri Ram left
Ayodhya for 14 years of exile. Thus, he was 25 years old at that time
(5114-5089). There are several shlokas in Valmiki Ramayan which
indicate that Shri Ram was 25-years-old when he left Ayodhya for
exile.
Valmiki Ramayan refers to the solar eclipse at the time of war with
Khardushan in later half of 13th year of Shri Ram's exile. It is also
mentioned it was amavasya day and Mars was in the middle. When this
data was entered, the software indicated that there was a solar
eclipse on October 7, 5077 BCE, (amavasya day) which could be seen
from Panchvati. The planetary configuration was also the same - Mars
was in the middle, on one side were Venus and Mercury and on the
other side were Sun and Saturn. On the basis of planetary
configurations described in various other chapters, the date on which
Ravana was killed works out to be December 4, 5076 BCE, and Shri Ram
completed 14 years of exile on January 2, 5075 BCE, and that day was
also Navami of Shukla Paksha in Chaitra month. Thus Shri Ram had come
back to Ayodhya at the age of 39 (5114-5075).
A colleague, Dr Ram Avtar, researched on places visited by Shri Ram
during his exile, and sequentially moved to the places stated as
visited by Shri Ram in the Valmiki Ramayan, starting from Ayodhya he
went right upto Rameshwaram. He found 195 places which still have the
memorials connected to the events narrated in the Ramayan relating to
the life of Shri Ram and Sita. These include Tamsa Tal (Mandah),
Shringverpur (Singraur), Bhardwaj Ashram (situated near Allahabad),
Atri Ashram, Markandaya Ashram (Markundi), Chitrakoot, Pamakuti (on
banks of Godavari), Panchvati, Sita Sarovar, Ram Kund in
Triambakeshwar near Nasik, Shabari Ashram, Kishkindha (village
Annagorai), Dhanushkoti and Rameshwar temple.
In Valmiki Ramayan it is mentioned that Shri Ram's army constructed a
bridge over the sea between Rameshwaram and Lanka. After crossing
this bridge, Shri Ram's army had defeated Ravana. Recently, NASA put
pictures on the Internet of a man-made bridge, the ruins of which are
lying submerged in Palk Strait between Rameshwaram and Shri Lanka .
Recently the Shri Lankan Government had expressed the desire to
develop Sita Vatika as a tourist spot. Shri Lankans believe this was
Ashok Vatika where Ravana had kept Sita as a prisoner (in 5076 BCE).
Indian history has recorded that Shri Ram belonged to the Suryavansh
and he was the 64th ruler of this dynasty. The names and other
relevant particulars of previous 63 kings are listed in Ayodhya Ka
Itihas written about 80 years ago by Rai Bahadur Sita Ram. Professor
Subhash Kak of Lousiana University , in his book, The Astronomical
Code of the Rg Ved, has also listed 63 ancestors of Shri Ram who
ruled over Ayodhya. Shri Ram's ancestors have been traced out as:
Shri Ram, King Dashratha, King Aja, King Raghu, King Dilip and so
on.. From Kashmir to Kanyakumari and from Bengal to Gujarat ,
everywhere people believe in the reality of Shri Ram's existence,
particularly in the tribal areas of Himachal, Rajasthan, Madhya
Pradesh and the North-East. Most of the festivals celebrated in these
areas revolve around the events in the life of Shri Ram and Shri
Krishna.
The events and places related to the life of Shri Ram and Sita are
true cultural and social heritage of every Indian irrespective of
caste and creed. Therefore, it is common heritage. After all, Shri
Ram belonged to the period when Prophet Mohammed or Jesus Christ were
not born and Muslim or Christian faiths were unknown to the world.
The words Hindu (resident of Hindustan) and Indian (resident of India
) were synonymous.. India was also known as Bharat (land of
knowledge) and Aryavarta (where Aryans live) and Hindustan (land of
"Hindus" -- derived from word Indus).[*]
During Ram Rajya, the evils of caste system based on birth were non-
existent. In fact, Maharishi Valmiki is stated to be of shudra class
(scheduled caste), still Sita lived with him as his adopted daughter
after she was banished from Ayodhya. Luv and Kush grew in his ashram
as his disciples. We need to be proud of the fact that Valmiki was
perhaps the first great astronomer and that his study of planetary
configurations has stood the test of times. Even the latest computer
softwares have corroborated his astronomical calculations, which
proves that he did not commit any error.
Shabari is stated to be belonging to the Bheel tribe. Shri Ram's
army, which succeeded in defeating Ravana, was formed by various
tribals from Central and South India. The facts, events and all other
details relating to the life of Shri Ram are the common heritage of
all the Indians including scheduled castes, scheduled tribes,
Muslims, Christians, etc.
Prophet Mohammad was born 1,400 years ago. Jesus Christ was born
2,000 years back. Gautam Buddh was born 2,600 years back, whereas Ram
was born 7,000 years back. Hence, discovering the details relating to
Shri Ram's life would be lot more difficult as destruction caused by
floods, earthquakes and invasions etc., would be far greater. But,
should that stop our quest for learning more about our cultural
heritage?
As Indians, let us all take pride in the fact that the Indian
civilisation is the most ancient civilisation today. It is certainly
more than 10,000 years old. Therefore, let us reject the story of
Aryan invasion in India in 1,500 BCE as motivated implantation. In
fact Max Mueller, who was the creator of this theory had himself
rejected it. Let us admit that during the British Rule, we were
educated in the schools based on Macaulay school of thinking which
believed that everything Indian was inferior and that entire "Indian
literature was not worth even one book rack in England". If there
were similarities in certain features of Indian people and people
from Central Europe, then automatic inference drawn was that the
Aryans coming from Europe invaded India and settled here. No one
dared of thinking in any other way. Therefore, there is urgency for
the historians and all other intellectuals to stop reducing Indian
history to myth. There is need to gather, dig out, search, unearth
and analyse all the evidences, which would throw more light on
ancient Indian civilisation and culture.
There is need for the print and the electronic media to take note of
these facts and create atmosphere which would motivate our young and
educated youth to carry out research and unearth true facts about the
ancient Indian civilisation and wisdom and would also encourage them
to put across the results of their research before the people
fearlessly and with a sense of pride! by Saroj Bala, The Pioneer
The author Saroj Bala is in IRS, Commisioner of Income Tax posted at
Delhi.
End of forwarded message from B. L.
[*]
''HINDU'' DOES NOT COME FROM ''SINDHU''
Hinduism Today
http://www.HinduismToday.com
April 1992
How many times have you explained that the name of your religion is a
concoction invented by the Persians who called the people who lived
beyond the Sindhu River ''Hindus,'' mispronouncing the ''S''?
Recant.
A. Krishna Kumar of Hyderabad, India, explains. ''This [Sindhu/Hindu]
view is untenable since Indians at that time enviably ranked highest
in the world in terms of civilization and wealth would not have been
without a name. They were not the unknown aborigines waiting to be
discovered, identified and Christened by foreigners.''
He cites a more solid argument from the book Self-Government in India
by N. B. Pavgee, published in 1912. The author tells of an old Swami
and Sanskrit scholar Mangal Nathji, who found an ancient Puran known
as Brihannaradi in the Sham village, Hoshiarpur, Punjab. It
contained the verse:
HIMALAYAM SAMARABHYA YAVAT BINDUSAROVARAM
HINDUSTHANAMITI QYATAM HI ANTARAKSHARAYOGATAH
Kumar translates it as:
''The country lying between the Himalayan mountain and Bindu Sarovara
(Cape Comorin sea) is known as Hindusthan by combination of the first
letter 'hi' of 'Himalaya' and the last compound letter 'ndu' of the
word 'Bindu.'''
Source - Hinduism Today, April 1992.
http://www.HinduismToday.com
Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti
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hari....@indero.com
civilisation is the most ancient civilisation today. It is certainly
more than 10,000 years old. Therefore, let us reject the story of Aryan
invasion in India in 1,500 BCE as motivated implantation."
Not according to jay stevens,aka dr. jai etc. who posted an article
saying oppisite and confirming aryan invasion..
10 k years ago most were tribals and hunter gatherers. A very few were
very small scale farmers.
India is not most ancient "civilization", whatever that is. The complex
cultures first started in 5 places in peru, mexico, iraq, pakistan, and
china; to use current names. Those of middle east and china proceeded
s. asia in time. There is a break from the s. asia example to vedic
times which started with aryan invasion mixing with people after the
fall of the complex culture.
fanabba
>
> read more »
Great article !
Jai Shri Ram !
and/or www.mantra.com/jai
fanabba <fan...@aol.com> posted:
> Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:
> > Forwarded message from B. L.
> >
> > Wednesday, December 8, 2010
> >
> > A history of the birth of Shree Ram is worth knowing.
> >
> > The author Saroj Bala is in IRS, Commisioner of Income Tax posted at
> >
> > Our very foundations of our faith are in threat and have to be
> > challenged. the congress govt. denied the existence of lord ram and
> >
> > It is important the educated among us take the lead to save our faith
> > and values.
> >
> >
> > The facts about Ram. =A0 - Saroj Bala
> Great article !
> Jai Shri Ram !
*---=====| Jai Shree Raam! |=====---*
library101
>
> read more »
While it is good to see that you have done some research, it is
important to point out the weaknesses of the research as well :
- Dependence upon some software written by somebody. (planetarium
software) Astronomy is okay if you provide a more complete analysis
including the modeling used for the planetarium software. Who did that
(?), etc. All the dates seem to come out of the planetarium
software...
< Thank you for the information. >
library101
What examples of literature do you have in these 'so-called' complex
cultures that you can show us to prove that they were anything
comparable to Bharat's civilization ?
Please give us examples of literature from Peru, Mexico, Iraq,
Pakistan and China and try to substantiate your claim. Otherwise, you
can keep your opinions to yourself. They do not carry any weight.
Last week, an old Chinese man from Hong Kong visited me at work with
an old Chinese woman. It seemed they were visiting USA for the first
time. He could not count 1 to 5. I used my fingers to count for him -
1, 2, 3, 4, 5. He was very impressed.
Please give concrete examples. Thanks.
hari....@indero.com
> civilisation is the most ancient civilisation today. It is certainly
> more than 10,000 years old. Therefore, let us reject the story of
Aryan
> invasion in India in 1,500 BCE as motivated implantation."
>
> Not according to jay stevens,aka dr. jai etc. who posted an article
> saying oppisite and confirming aryan invasion..
>
> very small scale farmers.
>
> cultures first started in 5 places in peru, mexico, iraq, pakistan, and
> s. asia in time. =A0There is a break from the s. asia example to vedic
> times which started with aryan invasion mixing with people after the
> fall of the complex culture.
"What examples of literature do you have in these 'so-called' complex
cultures that you can show us to prove that they were anything
comparable to Bharat's civilization ?
Please give us examples of literature from Peru, Mexico, Iraq, Pakistan
and China and try to substantiate your claim. Otherwise, you can keep
your opinions to yourself. They do not carry any weight."
I do so much hope you are not saying literature is "civilization"?
It would be impossible to compare "literature", the indus complex
culture had none that survives. Even a written script has yet to be
demonstrated, but there is no reason it might not in time.
The early middle east and china
cultures have it. The middle east original documents and the chinese
in a few originals and mostly in copies. Literature is a bad basis to
evaluate anything deeply historical because only under special
conditions do the documents or copies survive.
The best understanding of all of them comes from archaeology which is
the standard for scientific evaluation of cultural complexity
prehistory.
Mirza Ghalib
> > "As Indians, let us all take pride in the fact that the Indian
> > civilisation is the most ancient civilisation today. It is certainly
> > more than 10,000 years old. Therefore, let us reject the story of
> Aryan
> > invasion in India in 1,500 BCE as motivated implantation."
>
> > Not according to jay stevens,aka dr. jai etc. who posted an article
> > saying oppisite and confirming aryan invasion..
>
>
Did you know that in ancient India knowledge from
generation to generation was transmitted by rote?
Written material could not have survived the Indian
weather and political instabilty of the times. Yet,
there is evidence that script were in use by
about 500 b.c.
By the way, how old and "complex" was the Inca
civilization? From all accounts they seemed to be
primitive people till as late as the 15th century when
they came in contact with the Spaniards. Yes, yes
they had developed a number system and done
astronomical research, but was it ever applied to
solving their problems? Hardly.
hari....@indero.com
> > civilisation is the most ancient civilisation today. It is certainly
> > more than 10,000 years old. Therefore, let us reject the story of
> Aryan
> > invasion in India in 1,500 BCE as motivated implantation."
>
> > Not according to jay stevens,aka dr. jai etc. who posted an article
> > saying oppisite and confirming aryan invasion..
>
"Did you know that in ancient India knowledge from generation to
generation was transmitted by rote? Written material could not have
survived the Indian weather and political instabilty of the times. Yet,
there is evidence that script were in use by about 500 b.c."
Sure, as is the case in all places on the globe. The tribals of s. asia
had such information for many thousands of years ago. While script is
possible it is not demonstrated. However it would not be surprising if
it were there.
By the way, how old and "complex" was the Inca
civilization? From all accounts they seemed to be
primitive people till as late as the 15th century when
they came in contact with the Spaniards. Yes, yes
they had developed a number system and done
astronomical research, but was it ever applied to
solving their problems? Hardly.
Commands: Use arrow keys to move, '?' for help, 'q' to quit, '<-' to go
back.
hari....@indero.com
> > civilisation is the most ancient civilisation today. It is certainly
> > more than 10,000 years old. Therefore, let us reject the story of
> Aryan
> > invasion in India in 1,500 BCE as motivated implantation."
>
> > Not according to jay stevens,aka dr. jai etc. who posted an article
> > saying oppisite and confirming aryan invasion..
>
>
"Did you know that in ancient India knowledge from generation to
generation was transmitted by rote? Written material could not have
survived the Indian weather and political instabilty of the times. Yet,
there is evidence that script were in use by about 500 b.c."
Sure, this is the standard practice every where on the globe. Tribals
in s. asia continue even today and have done so for thousands of years.
It would not be surprising if a script was in use by 500 bc. There is
clear evidence existing today you can go and see of it in persia at that
time which derived from a form of 5000 years ago.
"By the way, how old and "complex" was the Inca civilization? From all
accounts they seemed to be primitive people till as late as the 15th
century when they came in contact with the Spaniards. Yes, yes they had
developed a number system and done astronomical research, but was it
ever applied to solving their problems? Hardly. "
They were preceeded by the mocha, they were not the first in peru. The
mocha were about 2000 years ago. The inca were very complex, as much so
as in the indus as indicated by archaeology which is all we have for the
indus to compare. Not only did they have a number system they also had
a system of recording information that could be passed for great
distances in the form of complexly knotted cords. One can record
information by making marks on something or by knotting a chord.
They used numbers as any culture does. All complex cultures had to
account for counting things such as in keeping records of how much tax
and other such matters. Weights and measures were developed for the
same reason. Because land claims and irrigation were important,
knowledge of what we would call geometry was developed in all the
complex cultures. "
Primitive" is meaningless as you use it. If the inca were so, then also
too the indus given the record of archaeology. That "hardly" speaks
well of you and of the level of your knowledge about such matters.
Myself, Mallu. Yourself?
Good luck in engaging the nainte mon, Curry Ku, in a discussion - an
exercise in futility. You'll get pure drivel about 'complex cultures'
(the SOB will give you a circular definition of the term) and a very
strong anti-India bias, all done in the most pretentious and patronizing
manner. The idea is not to teach and learn, but merely to try and bring
across the idea that India really does not amount to anything, and never
has. The SOB has neither an inkling, nor the scholarship on anything
Indian. He is just a mere maggot looking for some attention. But he has
a 'fan following' amongst people who despise India and Indians, and
phony doc provides the right cover to snipe. In sum, the goddamn maggot
Curry Ku is not worth your time.
--
VB, Just itchy
'ome=shanty
library101
I think you are basically agreeing with me that there is no
significant literature (original or copies) to point to in Peru,
Mexico, Iraq, Pakistan
and China whereas Bharat has plenty of original content inspite of
repeated invasions and plunder and looting, etc. In fact, people all
over the world are all to eager to share whatever they have in their
possessions that belong to Bharat originally. They are the ones that
are really standing up for Bharat even today. The people in Bharat are
not able or willing to answer your doubts any more !
You are admitting that not even a meaningful written script can be
found in the Indus Valley (to call it a 'culture' even) !
You claim that archaeology is the ultimate standard for scientific
evaluation. Do you realize that it is fairly easy with modern
technology to create false caskets and shrouds and 'moon rocks', etc.
and things like that and fool every one with it ! This archaeology
business is not conclusive enough, I believe. I intend to delve deeper
into the 'Carbon Dating Theory' in the future and try to explain the
so-called 'science' underlying it just as I have examined other
Theories like 'Relativity', 'Gravitation', etc. I do not have enough
time for it right now, though.
Best Luck in your search for the truth !
- HSN.
hari....@indero.com
""I think you are basically agreeing with me that there is no
significant literature (original or copies) to point to in Peru, Mexico,
Iraq, Pakistan and China whereas Bharat has plenty of original content
Not in the least. Mexico and middle east and china had scripts. The
latter two have original copies of documents and china many as copies.
Peru had an information system that could be a script but its meaning
can not be known. It is known how it was used but its meaning has been
lost. The indus has no such script known yet and no documents.
"Bharat" what is that? If you mean the vedic age that came after the
indus had come and gone. By then mexico and middle east and china were
using written material as a standard practice. The latter two since
about 5000 or so years ago. By the time of the vedic age writing was
common as dirt in much of the euroasian landmass and in some places had
been for hundreds of years.
"You claim that archaeology is the ultimate standard for scientific
evaluation. Do you realize that it is fairly easy with modern technology
to create false caskets and shrouds and 'moon rocks', etc. and things
like that and fool every one with it ! This archaeology business is not
conclusive enough, I believe. I intend to delve deeper into the 'Carbon
Dating Theory' in the future and try to explain the so-called 'science'
underlying it just as I have examined other Theories like 'Relativity',
'Gravitation', etc. I do not have enough time for it right now, though."
What are you talking about? We use archaeology because it is the only
comprehensive way to understand ancient complex cultures because of a
lack of written material and in some of them like the indus none. The
same methods and same way of forming conclusions are applied equally.
I do understand archaeology and carbon 14 dating etc. and I see you are
just waving your hands. The methods to avoid any of the problems you
mention have been in practice since the start of scientific archaeology
for at least 100 years. You are talking about fraud in the art market,
not the science of archaeology.
hari_...@indero2.com
exercise in futility."
Welcome back. One can understand why it is futility you feel.
"You'll get pure drivel about 'complex cultures' A(the SOB will give you
a circular definition of the term) and a very strong anti-India bias,
all done in the most pretentious and patronizing manner. The idea is not
to teach and learn, but merely to try and bring across the idea that
India really does not amount to anything, and never has."
Happy to discuss complex cultures any time. Because you are ignorant on
the subject, you appointed yourself an instant exert. Such experts
don't have to be burdened with facts.
India is among those places where the first of them began. It is not to
put down india, it is to put down those self glory seekers who want to
put it on top of the heap. That for an agenda not related to a real
interest in history nor its scientific evaluation, or at least their
invention of same. That in place of being among others in many things
when objectiv evaluation is the goal.
The self glory seekers muddle about in their own ethnocentric swamp,
please don't confuse them with the facts. Please don't remind them that
they and their small corner of the world is not the center and beginning
of all things to which all others must be compared.
"The SOB has neither an inkling, nor the scholarship on anything Indian.
He is just a mere maggot looking for some attention. But he has a 'fan
following' amongst people who despise India and Indians, and phony doc
provides the right cover to snipe. In sum, the goddamn maggot Curry Ku
is not worth your time." ""
You spent much time waving your hands and stomping your feet and getting
red in the face with hissy fits then, which is just about the best you
achieved. Scant scholarship to be seen, much personal opinion. When it
came down to it and asked to wear the shoes if they fit, you complained
yu had a closet full of them.
Looking forward to much discussion in future.
M. Ranjit Mathews
Jai Maharaj) wrote:
> Forwarded message from B. L.
>
> Wednesday, December 8, 2010
>
> A history of the birth of Shree Ram is worth knowing.
If we had a detailed history, we'd how to turn pAyasam into
children:-)
Myself, Mallu. Yourself?
> "Good luck in engaging the nainte mon, Curry Ku, in a discussion - an
> exercise in futility."
>
> Welcome back. One can understand why it is futility you feel.
>
The first rule of Usenet etiquette is to keep one e-mail address fixed
and only change the nick, but etiquette is something an idiot like you
has no clue about, and you have the bloody gall to bleat piously about
honesty, integrity, ...
I failed to put 'Kumeer' as a variant in my killfile. Shame on me. But
since it is a little attention you're seeking bloody maggot, you got it.
> "You'll get pure drivel about 'complex cultures' A(the SOB will give you
> a circular definition of the term) and a very strong anti-India bias,
> all done in the most pretentious and patronizing manner. The idea is not
> to teach and learn, but merely to try and bring across the idea that
> India really does not amount to anything, and never has."
>
> Happy to discuss complex cultures any time. Because you are ignorant on
> the subject, you appointed yourself an instant exert. Such experts
> don't have to be burdened with facts.
>
I never ever claimed any 'expertise' about 'complex cultures'. I did say
that I had never heard of the term, but that I had heard of 'complex
societies'. I also did say that a dishonest neanderthal like you had a
culture complex, and that you could take that complex and stick it where
the sun don't shine.
> India is among those places where the first of them began. It is not to
> put down india, it is to put down those self glory seekers who want to
> put it on top of the heap. That for an agenda not related to a real
> interest in history nor its scientific evaluation, or at least their
> invention of same. That in place of being among others in many things
> when objectiv evaluation is the goal.
>
What a patronizing wretch. You haven't the foggiest about India, its
culture (complex or not) and its civilization. I have never seen or read
a single post of yours where you've had something positive to say about
India, but I have seen megabytes of drivel (mostly cut and paste because
pondscum like you have the upstairs department to let) that constantly
puts down Indians, particularly Hindus, what with you likening them to
Nazis. You think I going to buy your line about not putting down India?
Point me to a couple of your articles that have demonstrated your
genuine interest in Indian history and/or its scientific evaluation. You
once made a statement, 'there is much in Indian history to be proud of',
but to date you have not been able to name one thing (of much). You've
dodged the question time and time again. Save the 'I-am-so-objective'
bullshit for the more gullible. You are one partisan bigot, and one with
a deep-seated hatred for Hindus. _You_ are the bloody nazi. Go tattoo a
'hakenkreuz' (not 'swastika') on your forehead. You'll be gladly
accepted by Charles Manson or similar low life. Unless you are a white
guy (dunno if pakis are considered white in the US), acceptance will
require some 'Fair and Lovely' treatment on your part.
> The self glory seekers muddle about in their own ethnocentric swamp,
> please don't confuse them with the facts. Please don't remind them that
> they and their small corner of the world is not the center and beginning
> of all things to which all others must be compared.
>
Oh, you are not in the ethnocentric swamp? Perfidious bastard, _you_ are
the one completely stuck in that swamp, and so far you've not shown any
willingness to get out of it. Where were you born, swamp critter, that
you consider yourself oh-so-superior to Indians (read Hindus? It
certainly cannot be the US because your English is beyond redemption.
> "The SOB has neither an inkling, nor the scholarship on anything Indian.
> He is just a mere maggot looking for some attention. But he has a 'fan
> following' amongst people who despise India and Indians, and phony doc
> provides the right cover to snipe. In sum, the goddamn maggot Curry Ku
> is not worth your time." ""
>
> You spent much time waving your hands and stomping your feet and getting
> red in the face with hissy fits then, which is just about the best you
> achieved. Scant scholarship to be seen, much personal opinion. When it
> came down to it and asked to wear the shoes if they fit, you complained
> yu had a closet full of them.
>
You have shown scholarship, bloody selective cut-and-paste jockey? As
far as shoes go, they are meant to be flung at you. Since you just love
the Manusmriti, here is a smriti that every Hindu should follow when it
comes to you - 'a fool and a drum are fit to be beaten.' Take that and
stick it where the sun don't shine.
You think I am seeking your approval on anything, conceited racist
moron? You do not have the chops for any sort of discussion on anything.
Drag them knuckles elsewhere, cave-dweller.
> Looking forward to much discussion in future.
Nope. You can keep hankering for it, but you'll only get shoes and
invectives from me, goddamn lowlife.
hari_...@indero2.com
"You have shown scholarship, bloody selective cut-and-paste jockey? As
far as shoes go, they are meant to be flung at you. Since you just love
the Manusmriti, here is a smriti that every Hindu should follow when it
comes to you - 'a fool and a drum are fit to be beaten.' Take that and
stick it where the sun don't shine.
You think I am seeking your approval on anything, conceited racist
moron? You do not have the chops for any sort of discussion on anything.
Drag them knuckles elsewhere, cave-dweller.
> Looking forward to much discussion in future.
Nope. You can keep hankering for it, but you'll only get shoes and
invectives from me, goddamn lowlife."
Yawn, more hand waving foot stomping red faced hissy fit; more shoes for
the closet. Now where was that request for a discussion of the topic of
the subject line.
You have long ago discredited yourself given the above kinds of
behaviors for any serious discussion.
As for scholarship, happy to share my knowledge with you. Happy to
discuss serious topics, yes even complex cultures and as same is
illustrated in s. asia. No desire to treat ailing feet from wearing
those well fitting shoes.
May this day provide you peace.
library101
wrote:
So, I take it they are relying upon tables of positions of stars and
planets, etc. rather than any analysis or computation (?). It seems to
be some kind of ad-hoc practice that is subject to modification on the
fly like entering different entries in a spread-sheet table, for
example ?? < Need more research/information. >
Myself, Mallu. Yourself?
> "You have shown scholarship, bloody selective cut-and-paste jockey? As
> far as shoes go, they are meant to be flung at you. Since you just love
> the Manusmriti, here is a smriti that every Hindu should follow when it
> comes to you - 'a fool and a drum are fit to be beaten.' Take that and
> stick it where the sun don't shine.
>
> You think I am seeking your approval on anything, conceited racist
> moron? You do not have the chops for any sort of discussion on anything.
> Drag them knuckles elsewhere, cave-dweller.
>
>> Looking forward to much discussion in future.
>
> Nope. You can keep hankering for it, but you'll only get shoes and
> invectives from me, goddamn lowlife."
>
> Yawn, more hand waving foot stomping red faced hissy fit; more shoes for
> the closet. Now where was that request for a discussion of the topic of
> the subject line.
>
I don't give a rat about the subject line, and your 'take' on anything,
self-righteous turd. Besides, you'd have nothing to contribute to a
discussion about the subject line, bloody halfwit. You'll have to dig
and find stuff to cut and paste.
> You have long ago discredited yourself given the above kinds of
> behaviors for any serious discussion.
>
Conceited dishonest idiot, how many times do I have to tell you that I
am not particularly seeking your approval or 'credit' on anything? Boy,
either you are goddamn thick, or just a glutton for abuse, or both.
> As for scholarship, happy to share my knowledge with you. Happy to
> discuss serious topics, yes even complex cultures and as same is
> illustrated in s. asia. No desire to treat ailing feet from wearing
> those well fitting shoes.
>
You have got nothing, zip, nada, zilch, zero, nil, when it comes to
'scholarship' of any kind, selective cut-and-paste jockey. You are one
low life bigot and a political nazi, and when it comes right down to it,
your entire argument about anything is predicated upon a simple
principle: Any place but India. You expect me to believe you are not
caught up in the 'swamp of labels' and engage a third-rate nazi like you
in any meaningful discussion? Dream on maggot. In your case shoes are to
be rained upon you and not worn on one's feet, esp. since you are the
'troll in the mission'. Stick to phony doc bash, you are not fit for
anything else.
Now continue to dodge the following: Name a few things (out of much) in
Indian history to take pride in.
hari_...@indero2.com
'scholarship' of any kind, selective cut-and-paste jockey. You are one
low life bigot and a political nazi, and when it comes right down to it,
your entire argument about anything is predicated upon a simple
principle: Any place but India. You expect me to believe you are not
caught up in the 'swamp of labels' and engage a third-rate nazi like you
in any meaningful discussion? Dream on maggot. In your case shoes are to
be rained upon you and not worn on one's feet, esp. since you are the
'troll in the mission'. Stick to phony doc bash, you are not fit for
anything else.""
How would you know about scholarship? When I have presented discussion
of same all you did was rant as above. Those not informed are the best
instant experts, they don't have to be burdened with the facts; hissy
fits are enough.
Commerce in labels is indeed one of your failings. You must first
evaluate all matters by them first and the evaluation then changes
relative to them. A primary symptom of the curse of labels in s. asia.
If as in the case of myself you haven't the comfort of a label, invent
some as above. It has been great entertainment seeing you try out those
most familiar to yourself and find them falling away uselessly.
What would you like to know about complex cultures, and how s. asia
illustrates same?
"Now continue to dodge the following: Name a few things (out of much) in
Indian history to take pride in.""
Yawn, no thank you, not for lack of same but just to push your buttons
and enjoy the specticle. Happy to confirm for others the depth of your
contributions.
Always happy for a serious discussion, the play is yours.
May this day find you in peace.
Myself, Mallu. Yourself?
> "You have got nothing, zip, nada, zilch, zero, nil, when it comes to
> 'scholarship' of any kind, selective cut-and-paste jockey. You are one
> low life bigot and a political nazi, and when it comes right down to it,
> your entire argument about anything is predicated upon a simple
> principle: Any place but India. You expect me to believe you are not
> caught up in the 'swamp of labels' and engage a third-rate nazi like you
> in any meaningful discussion? Dream on maggot. In your case shoes are to
> be rained upon you and not worn on one's feet, esp. since you are the
> 'troll in the mission'. Stick to phony doc bash, you are not fit for
> anything else.""
>
Apparently there is a deep-seated desire in Curry Kula to try and get in
the last word.
> How would you know about scholarship? When I have presented discussion
> of same all you did was rant as above. Those not informed are the best
> instant experts, they don't have to be burdened with the facts; hissy
> fits are enough.
>
I do know lots more than you do, halfwitted nazi bigot, and your
'discussions' have never ever demonstrated your 'scholarship', except
perhaps in your deluded mind. What you have shown amply and very clearly
is that you are Hindu-hating bigot. That's all and nothing more.
> Commerce in labels is indeed one of your failings. You must first
> evaluate all matters by them first and the evaluation then changes
> relative to them. A primary symptom of the curse of labels in s. asia.
>
Horse hockey, bloody nazi. You have no clue about anything to 'evaluate'
them. Stop babbling, perfidious moron.
> If as in the case of myself you haven't the comfort of a label, invent
> some as above. It has been great entertainment seeing you try out those
> most familiar to yourself and find them falling away uselessly.
>
If you had the 'comfort of a label', you lowbred idiot, you wouldn't be
posting here. Your goddamn insecurity shines through quite clearly
because you post inane political nonsense with a rather broad brush.
Also, you don't have the courage to come right out and say something
directly, and have to resort to selective cut-and-paste to try and make
a political point. You can take your damn labels and stick them where
the sun don't shine.
> What would you like to know about complex cultures, and how s. asia
> illustrates same?
>
I do know it much more than you do, bloody paki. You haven't
demonstrated your knowledge of anything Indian here.
> "Now continue to dodge the following: Name a few things (out of much) in
> Indian history to take pride in.""
>
> Yawn, no thank you, not for lack of same but just to push your buttons
> and enjoy the specticle. Happy to confirm for others the depth of your
> contributions.
>
Dang, isn't it too early in the week for a 'confessional'? For once
you're honest. Your intention is to be a troll, nothing much else. Your
English is getting even more atrocious - what is a 'specticle' [sic] if
freaking baboon testicle?
> Always happy for a serious discussion, the play is yours.
>
No play. You'll continue to get flogged as long as you continue to reply
to my posts. Dig, dishonest nazi pus bag?
hari_...@indero2.com
in
> Indian history to take pride in.""
>
> Yawn, no thank you, not for lack of same but just to push your buttons
> and enjoy the specticle. Happy to confirm for others the depth of
your
> contributions.
>
"Dang, isn't it too early in the week for a 'confessional'? For once
you're honest. Your intention is to be a troll, nothing much else. Your
English is getting even more atrocious - what is a 'specticle' [sic] if
freaking baboon testicle?"
Not one of your better performances. Worry not, pushing button again,
your play.
> Always happy for a serious discussion, the play is yours.
>
"No play. You'll continue to get flogged as long as you continue to
reply to my posts. Dig, dishonest nazi pus bag?"
Oh well, maybe tomorrow. How many really successful specticles can one
person pull off anyway.
Rest, come back, and give it the good try. Did I mention a spot of tea
might help?
Wait, or is this your best effort? Ok, never mind.
Myself, Mallu. Yourself?
A genuine scholar would have walked away from a discussion that has sunk
into the gutter, or at least a scholar would have tried to keep on
point, since there is nothing to gain from pointless conversations. Your
repeated attempts at trying to engage someone, anyone, in a
'conversation', to the point you have to change your e-mail address (a
breach of Usenet etiquette) in desperation to get around a killfile,
says that you are no scholar but a gutterbred troll. Stick your
scholarship, and your labels where the sun don't shine. You have been
exposed quite thoroughly as a fraud and a Hindu-hating bigot. Now let me
see your newest fraudulent scheme, nay, 'specticle' [sic].