identifiying the titanic.
joanne roberts
her sister ships, and the best way to check is to look at her Poopdecks.
What should one look for to decide if the picture is genuine?
Bill_Leary
news:9f0pj8$l0i$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> I have been told that many of the photographs of the Titanic are actually
> her sister ships, and the best way to check is to look at her Poopdecks.
> What should one look for to decide if the picture is genuine?
Forward prominade deck:
Olympic = Open
Titanic = Enclosed
Britannic = Enclosed.
Caution on the above. Construction photos of Titanic usually show the
promiade open, because the enclosure wasn't added until very late in
construction.
Aft well deck:
Olympic = Open
Titanic = Open
Britannic = Enclosed
But you don't need that for Britannic. Just look at those life boat davits.
Huge crane looking things, not at all the graceful curved form of hte other
two.
I don't recall, off hand, any obvious differencs on the poop deck, but I
suppose there could be some.
- Bill
Dave Tuttle
I've spent a lifetime collecting "counterfeit" Titanics. It's kind of a
"sub-hobby" within a hobby. The reason for so many fakes depends on the
period when they were produced.
Before 1912, the White Star Line saw these 3 ships as "identical"
sisters. They were al to be basically the same, as shown by period posters,
brochures, and postcards printed for the Olympic Class Liners by WSL.
One must remember that since Titanic was brand new, and had never yet
sailed, there were comparatively few photos of her taken in her completed
state. Olympic, on the other hand, had been in service for a year, and saw
much greater exposure.
When Titanic sank, there was the immediate expected rush to capitalize
on the notoriety. (Some things never change, huh?) Press coverage and
souvenirs were all the rage. In many cases, pictures of Olympic were the
only ones available. There was little, if any intent on anyone's part to
deceive. In most cases, it was simple ignorance of the differences.
Today, however, is another matter. So many decades of infatuation with
Titanic has revealed many images of the stricken liner. The internet
provides instant information as to correct identification. There's just no
excuse for error, other than the almighty dollar or just plain laziness. I
saw a CD in 1999 of "Titanic" music with the Olympic on the cover. But, I
also saw another "Titanic" music collection on CD featuring the QUEEN MARY,
complete with bright red funnels! I guess the distributor figured that for
the stupid consuming public, as they see us, ANY image of a liner would do.
Aside from items with the wrong ship's pictures, other things I collect
are those with the most blatant errors possible. Examples include
memorabilia that proclaim "Titanic--London", and posters, cards, etc. which
show smoke billowing from the fourth funnel.
I have an oil painting in my living room. It was painted by the artist
commissioned to do the art for one of the country's major Titanic
exhibitions. I won't embarrass him by giving his name. The painting is an
absolutely gorgeous 22" x 24" canvas bearing a NEAR perfect copy of Ken
Marschall's cover painting for the book Titanic--An Illustrated History. My
wife saw it at a craft show in Raleigh in 1999.
She immediately noticed the error of smoke coming from the last stack.
(Marschall's painting has smoke drifting across the area from the forward
ones, but the second artist misinterpreted it as to it's source). My wife
(I trained her well) then proceeded to dicker the art dealer down $50.00 by
pointing out the discrepancy before buying the piece for $225.
Bill Leary briefly describes very well the immediate points to look for
to discern the differences in his reply to your post. Mainly, if the ship
is shown as COMPLETE or in service, and the entire length of the promenade
deck is open, then it's Olympic. This is the most easily discerned feature.
You can also date pictures of Olympic as to pre or post disaster, by the
presence of the HUGE tall lifeboat davits Bill mentioned.
Dave Tuttle
joanne roberts <JOA...@robertsj29.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9f0pj8$l0i$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
Larry Jibson
<snip (excellent material!)>
> You can also date pictures of Olympic as to pre or post disaster, by the
> presence of the HUGE tall lifeboat davits Bill mentioned.
I'm sure you meant Brittanic. H.M.H.S. Brittanic was the only vessel
outfitted with the tall gantry davits. R.M.S. Olympic added stacked
lifeboats after the disaster but retained the Welin style davits
throughout her service life.
Larry
Bill_Leary
news:9f13l6$6s2$1...@slb5.atl.mindspring.net...
> Joanne:
> You can also date pictures of Olympic as to pre or post disaster, by the
> presence of the HUGE tall lifeboat davits Bill mentioned.
Olympic never got those huge davits, that I know of anyway.
I've got two pictures of her here with a caption that says mid-1920's and
she's still got the thin graceful ones. There are TWO baots at every
station (the old full sized one, and a collapsable) and stations have been
added to join the aft and fore clusters. But, they're all the original
style. The full sized boats are pulled up closer to the top of the davits
than pre-disaster, to make room for the collapsables underneath each boat.
- Bill
Dave Tuttle
at dock. I've also shared it with Stuart in the past to evaluate. Look at
the davits and you be the judge.
Dave Tuttle
Bill_Leary <Bill_...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:J_WQ6.7534$QP6.4...@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...
Bill_Leary
> To both Larry and Bill, I'm emailing you a post-disaster picture of
Olympic
> at dock. I've also shared it with Stuart in the past to evaluate. Look
at
> the davits and you be the judge.
Dave sent me a picture which makes it clear that he didn't mean those huge
crane things the Britannic got, but rather longer (and perhaps heavier)
versions of the davits she already had. At the prompting of this picture, I
looked over some I had again, and sent him this response...
---BEGIN QUOTED SECTION---
This is pretty interesting.
I've got five picture here of Olympic in "the 1920's." Two of them are
paintings, so I discount them entirely. The others are (1) a shot of the
port side perhaps at a 20 degree angle, (2) at dock, taken from the top of
the fourth funnel and (3) again, at dock, taken from the top of a dock side
building looking down the starboard side. They're clearly the same style
Wellin davits as the pre-disaster ones. However examining side-on pictures
of Titanic and pre-disaster Olympic, I notice that the tops of the davits
appear to be just a bit shorter than compass tower. But, in (1) the davits
appear to be noticbly taller than the compass tower. Using some people
on-deck for scale, it looks like about six feet over the tower, or eight
feet taller than the pre-disaster pictures.
In other words, I think you've got something.
---END QUOTED SECTION---
The point is, Britannic got this ungainly lattice work crane looking davits
(see especially the most popular picture of her in hospital colors) while
Olympic appears to have gotten extended versions of the rather graceful
davits used on both Olympic and Titanic.
Thanks, Dave. Always a joy to learn something new about these ships.
- Bill
Ewok
Well I came across a vhs video tape with the title "Titanic the disaster"
but on the cover there were no Titanic it was the sinking Lusitania, and i
think they used Ken Marshall's painting.
by the way I have come across a model i think it is a 1:250 (almost 3,5
feet)wooden model made for over 30 years ago. and when i get her home I will
take some photos and post them here in this great forum.
Excuse my rusty english
Ken
"Dave Tuttle" <kb4...@mindspring.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:9f13l6$6s2$1...@slb5.atl.mindspring.net...
Glenn S.
> To both Larry and Bill, I'm emailing you a post-disaster picture of
Olympic
> at dock. I've also shared it with Stuart in the past to evaluate. Look
at
> the davits and you be the judge.
The easiest way to tell the Titanic from the Olympic is by looking at the
Promenade Deck (A-Deck). The Promenade Deck on the Titanic was protected
from the weather for much of its length. The Promenade Deck on the Olympic
was completely open to the weather.
Glenn
Dave Tuttle
from the bow makes this evaluation impossible. I'll email you a copy of the
pic and you be the judge.
Dave Tuttle
Glenn S. <gle...@ctaz.com> wrote in message
news:QJHS6.385$Mp.1...@news-west.eli.net...
Larry Jibson
> > To both Larry and Bill, I'm emailing you a post-disaster picture of
> Olympic
> > at dock. I've also shared it with Stuart in the past to evaluate. Look
> at
> > the davits and you be the judge.
I've received confirmation that longer davit arms were fitted when
the Murry's nested lifeboats were installed. Those were two full size
boats, stacked, not a boat and a collapsible. Unfortunately I don't
have a date associated with that refit.
Larry
Fred
> her sister ships, and the best way to check is to look at her Poopdecks.
> What should one look for to decide if the picture is genuine?
Of course, many "Titanic" photos were actually of the Olympic. The Olympic
never had the forward end of her promenade deck enclosed unlike the
Titanic. The Britannic did have forward end of her promenade deck enclosed
much like the Titanic, but the Britannic stood apart because of the large
gantry davits that were installed. Enclosure of the forward promenade deck
of the Titanic was a last minute modification carried out at Harland & Wolff,
so some true Titanic photos do exist with an open promenade deck. So it
depends on where the photo was taken.
........Fred