You won't get a good job without three years of pre-med!
Coyu
Okay, I'm more interested in this throwaway comment
than I am about the geopolitics: a future US where
three years of pre-med is as common as a high school
diploma today.
What effects? The High School movement has produced
some strange cultural fruit, but on the whole, it's
been of vast benefit to American society. I can't
help but think that the Pre-Med movement, even if
only partially successful, would be similar.
(It might be that the subject matter is inherently
too hard for the average person. I'm going to
handwave that away. I don't believe pre-med students
at present are particularly smart; and I suspect that
many people who have passed the Pre-Med in the future
will have just squeaked by, just as many high school
graduates do today. The rest, chalk up to a medical
knowledge Flynn effect.)
Much depends on its organization. Let's say it takes
the place of the last year of high school plus the
equivalent of a two-year college. Some public, some
private. Because some things are culturally ingrained,
the northern Midwest and the Pacific Northwest lead,
and the South drags. (If you want catchy details, say
the Gates Foundation endows the first in the Seattle
area.)
Because some have started off as college-affiliated
institutions, many have teenagers leaving home to
attend. Others don't. There's probably a regional
trend here as well: say, the Northeast for leaving
home, the Heartland states for not.
Say this gets going about 2025, when the US discovers
it really really needs a lot of biomedical personnel,
and to hell with this AMA guild thingie. By mid-
century, the transition is complete.
Upshot?
mra...@willamette.edu
knowledge of their own bodies. They will be able to say, "Hmm . . .
this lump on my throat might possibly be a [medical jargon here], I
better get a quick test rather than waiting a year and having it kill
me."
Tons and tons of medical problems are easily treatable in the early
stages and much more difficult as time progresses. Having a lot of
problems being caught early on could significantly reduce health
problems.
Anyone know if nurses and doctors have a higher rate of health than
most people? Do they tend to engage in more or less self-destructive
behavior (smoking, drinking to excess, over/under eating, etc)?
--
Mike Ralls
Thomas Womack
<mra...@willamette.edu> wrote:
>Well one obvious upshot is that everybody will have basic medical
>knowledge of their own bodies. They will be able to say, "Hmm . . .
>this lump on my throat might possibly be a [medical jargon here], I
>better get a quick test rather than waiting a year and having it kill
>me."
I think three years of training gets you a lot more than basic
knowledge. I can imagine, for example, that a lot of medication stops
being prescription-only.
>Anyone know if nurses and doctors have a higher rate of health than
>most people? Do they tend to engage in more or less self-destructive
>behavior (smoking, drinking to excess, over/under eating, etc)?
Doctors are, after bartenders and ahead of lawyers, the second most
likely profession to die from drink (at least in the UK); there's a
famous definition of an alcoholic as a man who drinks more than his
doctor. I get the impression nursing is less a cause of self-
destruction, though I'm not sure from where.
On the other hand, at least part of the alcoholism of doctors is due
to stress due to over-work due to shortage of doctors, which may well
be a lot less of a problem in a world of pre-meds.
Tom
Edward
Coyu wrote:
> [blebbing this off the other thread]
>
> Okay, I'm more interested in this throwaway comment
> than I am about the geopolitics: a future US where
> three years of pre-med is as common as a high school
> diploma today.
>
I'm way confused on this. Are you talking about
the 8 credits of OChem, 8 Credits of Calculus-
based physics type or pre-med that we have now,
or are you talking about a pre-med curriculum that
provides specific medical knowledge?
The second seems to be more appropriate to
the McMedical jobs America that seems to
be shaping up in the "No Science Fiction"
timeline. The first, I think, would be more
interesting (Liberal arts education for
everyone. Hoorah!).
<snip>
>
> Say this gets going about 2025, when the US discovers
> it really really needs a lot of biomedical personnel,
> and to hell with this AMA guild thingie. By mid-
> century, the transition is complete.
>
> Upshot?
Hmm... looks like more the second. Is this a post
private health insurance America? If I were in
a dystopic state of mind, I could see Bill
Bennett and the University of Phoenix training
are new generations of bright, shiny pre-meds.
As an aside, I could see this displacing
industrial technology (ahh... shop) in
American high schools.
Ed
William P. Baird
> Okay, I'm more interested in this throwaway comment
> than I am about the geopolitics:
You play a mighty poor Bill Richardson then, Carlos. :P
> What effects? The High School movement has produced
> some strange cultural fruit, but on the whole, it's
> been of vast benefit to American society. I can't
> help but think that the Pre-Med movement, even if
> only partially successful, would be similar.
It would be rather interesting, I think. Thar be strange
cultural fruit to be born here.
> Much depends on its organization. Let's say it takes
> the place of the last year of high school plus the
> equivalent of a two-year college.
ixnay. I think what we're more likely to see is that
older folk are getting a litle frustrated with the 18-21
age group. Goof offs and slackers, they don't really have
the position of much responsibility (or are not allowed
such) and are often viewed as little more than, well, over
grown HS kids. Blend with the extended childhood that
we hear about, shake well, and we get another three
years of non-HS for those that get out of HS and prior
to university as part babysitting service and extending
the skill sets for the McMed Generations.
> If you want catchy details, say
> the Gates Foundation endows the first in the Seattle
> area.)
Gates and Balmer Biomedtech School? hrm.
> Because some have started off as college-affiliated
> institutions, many have teenagers leaving home to
> attend. Others don't. There's probably a regional
> trend here as well: say, the Northeast for leaving
> home, the Heartland states for not.
The west is going to largely be a Leave Home region.
Gravitating to cities though, but its possible that some
small towns might hunt down a rich individual to help
start one up locally. Done well, and you get small
towns where the economy is driven like a college
town...only a bit different.
> Upshot?
Posteens (18-21 yos) end up developing their own
cultural quirks like college, high school, and middle
school kids do. They definitely get viewed as /kids/.
Esp with the greying of the world. This is the
experimental stage...esp with learning all that
bio/medtech.
(o.O) Talk about experimental rec drugs...
Does this mean that to be a nurse, you still have to
go to a nursing school? Is the Biomedtech degree
a prereq for college? What happens to all the burger
flippers if we have everyone able to step up to be
nursing staff? I see a cultural shift here. Big time.
Will
In a wait state because of delayed vendor deliveries
--
William P Baird Do you know why the road less traveled by
Home: anzhalyu@gmail. has so few sightseers? Normally, there
Work: wba...@nersc.go is something big, mean, with very sharp
Blog: thedragonstales teeth - and quite the appetite! - waiting
+ com/v/.blogspot.com somewhere along its dark and twisty bends.
Coyu
> > Okay, I'm more interested in this throwaway comment
> > than I am about the geopolitics: a future US where
> > three years of pre-med is as common as a high school
> > diploma today.
> >
>
> I'm way confused on this. Are you talking about
> the 8 credits of OChem, 8 Credits of Calculus-
> based physics type or pre-med that we have now,
> or are you talking about a pre-med curriculum that
> provides specific medical knowledge?
>
> The second seems to be more appropriate to
> the McMedical jobs America that seems to
> be shaping up in the "No Science Fiction"
> timeline. The first, I think, would be more
> interesting (Liberal arts education for
> everyone. Hoorah!).
About halfway in-between. No organic chem, but mandatory
physiology and whatever biochemistry-slash-molecular biology
is called then. There'll be a math track and a non-math track,
which will roughly correlate to specialist versus medical peon.
The geeks will take Beginning Comparative Genomics, while the
jocks will take Exercise Physiology. Future lawyers will take
Medical Ethics.
> As an aside, I could see this displacing
> industrial technology (ahh... shop) in
> American high schools.
But where will all the digit reattachment cases come from?
Coyu
> >Well one obvious upshot is that everybody will have basic medical
> >knowledge of their own bodies. They will be able to say, "Hmm . . .
> >this lump on my throat might possibly be a [medical jargon here], I
> >better get a quick test rather than waiting a year and having it kill
> >me."
>
> I think three years of training gets you a lot more than basic
> knowledge. I can imagine, for example, that a lot of medication stops
> being prescription-only.
In the US, I think you get a social consensus on certain biologically
related issues: abortion, evolution, euthanasia, gay rights, race and
propensity towards whatever, et cetera. On the other hand, I don't
think the consensus will necessarily fit any current ideology,
although it will almost certainly be derived from one.
The drug subculture seems to me one that could go either way. But
it's a known unknown, to use that crazy guy's formulation.
I have another idea about how current US culture will increasingly
expect generations to go through age-related phases, which makes
me wonder if there's a stable, um, eigenculture involved.
gr...@ext.canterbury.ac.nz
Coyu wrote:
> In the US, I think you get a social consensus on certain biologically
> related issues: abortion, evolution, euthanasia, gay rights, race and
> propensity towards whatever, et cetera.
This is quite possible, but I'm not sure how it comes out of more
widespread medical knowledge. There's plenty of pro-life, creationist,
homophobic doctors around, after all.
Gareth Wilson