Feudalism, Race, Etc.
D. Spencer Hines
DSH
Julian Richards
<D_Spenc...@usa.yale.edu> wrote:
>The worst of all the euphemisms is "gay."
Which euphemism would you use?
One is spray painted up on the wall of a local community centre. What
is even worse is that it isn't even spelt correctly.
--
Julian Richards
julian-richards "at" ntlworld.com
Usenet is how from the comfort of your own living room, you can converse
with people that you would never want in your house.
Dick Wisan
>
>"D. Spencer Hines"<D_Spenc...@usa.yale.edu> wrote:
>>
>>The worst of all the euphemisms is "gay."
>
>Which euphemism would you use?
What irritates me about that one is that it destroyed a word that
was charming and useful. Didn't Monty Python do a bit on that
ambiguity?
--
R. N. (Dick) Wisan - Email: wis...@catskill.net
- Snail: 37 Clinton Street, Oneonta NY 13820, U.S.A.
- Just your opinion, please, ma'am: No fax.
D. Spencer Hines
"Gay" is a perfectly good word in its own right and has been for
centuries. It has been used in English since the 14th Century.
"Homosexual" is the word to use.
Another absurdity is:
"Native American" ---- as applied only to Amerinds.
DSH
"Dick Wisan" <wis...@catskill.net> wrote in message
news:c2053...@enews4.newsguy.com...
Sheila J
> Yep...
>
> "Gay" is a perfectly good word in its own right and has been for
> centuries. It has been used in English since the 14th Century.
>
> "Homosexual" is the word to use.
>
> Another absurdity is:
>
> "Native American" ---- as applied only to Amerinds.
>
My best friend is Upper Mohawk. She doesn't mind being called 'Indian',
but prefers 'First Nations' or First People...
Which, I also, think has interesting connotations...
Paul J Gans
>> "Native American" ---- as applied only to Amerinds.
>>
>My best friend is Upper Mohawk. She doesn't mind being called 'Indian',
>but prefers 'First Nations' or First People...
>Which, I also, think has interesting connotations...
The problem is that the term "Indian" is confusing as
there are a fair number of people in and from the
Indian subcontinent. The term "native" is ambiguous
as that's already in use to indicate a person born
in the US.
So we are a bit stuck with "Native American", unless someone
can come up with a better term.
---- Paul J. Gan
a.spencer3
> >
> >"D. Spencer Hines"<D_Spenc...@usa.yale.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >>The worst of all the euphemisms is "gay."
> >
> >Which euphemism would you use?
>
> What irritates me about that one is that it destroyed a word that
> was charming and useful. Didn't Monty Python do a bit on that
> ambiguity?
>
'4 candles', you mean (two Ronnies)?! :-))
Surreyman
Dick Wisan
>
>Sheila J <wols...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> "Native American" ---- as applied only to Amerinds.
>>>
>>My best friend is Upper Mohawk. She doesn't mind being called 'Indian',
>>but prefers 'First Nations' or First People...
>>Which, I also, think has interesting connotations...
>
>The problem is that the term "Indian" is confusing as
>there are a fair number of people in and from the
>Indian subcontinent. The term "native" is ambiguous
>as that's already in use to indicate a person born
>in the US.
Ah, ambiguous. You must remind me to post the explanation, some
day. At 3:40 in the morning, it's the wrong time to undertake
so lengthy a piece. The clue lies in the fact that the seat of
Delaware County (our neighbor in upstate New York) is Delhi
--pronounced DELL-high (as in "The cow kicked Nellhigh in the
bellhigh in the barn"), while the capital of "India" is _New_
Delhi, (to rhyme with "The cow kicked Nelly in the belly in the
barn"). Speculation on that reveals much.
But more later.
>So we are a bit stuck with "Native American", unless someone
>can come up with a better term.
As the Commander (I think) said, there's "Amerind", only nobody
ever likes it. Sounds like an exotic spice, used possibly to
flavor pipe tobacco.
Note: Commander, don't waste your energy guffawing at the
supposition that I mean this all soberly and literally. Wait
til you get the whole story.
John Cartmell
wrote:
Person?
--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527
Qercus magazine & FD Games www.finnybank.com www.acornuser.com
Qercus - a fusion of Acorn Publisher & Acorn User magazines
Martin Reboul
"Paul J Gans" <ga...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:c2117g$66f$9...@reader2.panix.com...
Surely "Injun" is the American standard?
Paul J Gans
>But more later.
Who is the Commander? Sheila's army and I'm a civilian.
And what are you doing up at that hour anyway?
--- Paul J. Gans
FF
Would that the autocthonous peoples this side of the pond had such a choice. Instead
we're the race that dare not speak its name:-(
Liz
Paul J Gans
Too easily confused with what we call that gentleman from
New Delhi.
---- Paul J. Gans
Renia
The trouble with the term "Indian", to a Brit, is that to us, it means
someone from India. We call American Indians, Red Indians.
Someone took the wrong highway, years ago, and thought they'd found
India, but they'd found MacDonald's country, without realising it, as
you all know, but still called the natives, Indians.
Renia
a.spencer3
Surreyman
a.spencer3
FF <fuchsi...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:0f2a40p1tfssj3p8m...@4ax.com...
Saxon-Celtic-Anglo-Norman?
(At least it'll scan).
Surreyman
Martin Reboul
I don't think I know that tribe... surely not the New Hampshire New Delhis?
Martin Reboul
"Renia" <ren...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:a387cf87.04030...@posting.google.com...
Quite a few Indians do actually work in McDonalds, hence the possible
confusion. They are mostly of the 'West' variety however. The redoubtable
Major Gowan explained the difference very succinctly in an episode of Fawlty
Towers IIRC.
Cheers
Martin
Martin Reboul
"a.spencer3" <a.spe...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Inh1c.72$6Z.43@newsfe1-win...
I thought they were 'WASPS' over the pond? The 'P' could be for Pagan, so I
suppose that includes me?
a.spencer3
Martin Reboul <mar...@SPAMFUKreboul1471.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c24vtm$kle$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
me!
Surreyman
Paul J Gans
>Paul J Gans <ga...@panix.com> wrote in message
>news:c22tti$qfm$8...@reader2.panix.com...
>> In alt.history.british Martin Reboul
><mar...@spamfukreboul1471.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >"Paul J Gans" <ga...@panix.com> wrote in message
>> >news:c2117g$66f$9...@reader2.panix.com...
>> >> In alt.history.british Sheila J <wols...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >> "Native American" ---- as applied only to Amerinds.
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >My best friend is Upper Mohawk. She doesn't mind being called
>'Indian',
>> >> >but prefers 'First Nations' or First People...
>> >> >Which, I also, think has interesting connotations...
>> >>
>> >> The problem is that the term "Indian" is confusing as
>> >> there are a fair number of people in and from the
>> >> Indian subcontinent. The term "native" is ambiguous
>> >> as that's already in use to indicate a person born
>> >> in the US.
>> >>
>> >> So we are a bit stuck with "Native American", unless someone
>> >> can come up with a better term.
>>
>> >Surely "Injun" is the American standard?
>>
>> Too easily confused with what we call that gentleman from
>> New Delhi.
>>
>Only if he's Communist? :-))
Now *that* is funny!
---- Paul J. Gans
Paul J Gans
They changed their name. Now it is Neudelis.
---- Paul J. Gans
FF
Oh dear me, you are a cryptic crossword lover, aren't you?
I can't do the things to save my life, but have the great good fortune (ha!) to have
married into a family where their idea of a good night in is to sit down and do the
Times cryptic en famille. After I'd gone through the phase of shame and mortification
I reached a plateau where I just fell asleep on the sofa and snored (this was in my
20's!). Finally I reached a state of grace where I could suck on my pencil and mutter
obscure red herrings with the best of them. My MIL wins prizes from the Times
regularly and once even ventured into the regional finals, but ill health prevents
her doing that any more.
Liz
a.spencer3
Gawd. I'm still trying to finish last September's 'Geographical'.
Surreyman
a.spencer3
>My MIL wins prizes from the Times
> regularly and once even ventured into the regional finals, but ill health
prevents
> her doing that any more.
>
PS: And, as with my quizzes, it's a darned sight easier to write'em than to
answer 'em!
Surreyman
Dick Wisan
>>there are a fair number of people in and from the
>>Indian subcontinent. The term "native" is ambiguous
>>as that's already in use to indicate a person born
>>in the US.
>
>Ah, ambiguous. You must remind me to post the explanation, some
>day. At 3:40 in the morning, it's the wrong time to undertake
>so lengthy a piece. The clue lies in the fact that the seat of
>Delaware County (our neighbor in upstate New York) is Delhi
>--pronounced DELL-high (as in "The cow kicked Nellhigh in the
>bellhigh in the barn"), while the capital of "India" is _New_
>Delhi, (to rhyme with "The cow kicked Nelly in the belly in the
>barn"). Speculation on that reveals much.
>
>But more later.
Now it's later. Here's the more:
Strangers appear often surprised that the seat of our neighboring
county, Delaware, is called "Delhi", pronounced to rhyme with "well
nigh". People seem to expect it to rhyme with "belly", and strangers
from India occasionally resent the implication that it is older than
their own capital. The mists of time mystify many things, and mis-
understanding may be preventable only by a firm grasp of the history.
In the present case, as is so often so, ancient legends, rightly
recounted, may provide our only source of intelligibility. I will tell
the true story as nearly as may be in simple and straightforward prose,
but readers may find it reassuring if they sprinkle "may have" or "must
surely have" or "could not otherwise have been" as required to assuage
their desire for evidentiary rigor.
Know then that, anciently, the territory which now forms Delaware County
in the State of New York was a principal domain of the Delaware Nation,
a strong and stout-hearted people, with their capital or principal
village at Delhi. Since time out of mind, the Delaware possessed a
prophesy that there would come, one day, a Stranger. He would have pale
skin, and red or yellow hair (or perhaps a red cap). Some said he would
come in a reed boat, others thought he would be on a raft of great logs,
but all stories agreed that he would have a name like thunder and he
would change the world.
Now, many peoples in this hemisphere knew prophesies of this kind;
indeed, some centuries later, one of them was the undoing of Montezuma.
But the Delaware differed from the other peoples of the hemisphere in
that they refused to wait passively for the Stranger with his pale skin
and red or yellow hair (or perhaps a red cap) and a name like thunder.
Instead, a great number of them resolved to go forth to find The
Stranger with pale skin and red or yellow hair (or perhaps a red cap)
and a name like thunder, to confront their fate. To this end, they
travelled down the Delaware river all the way to the sea. There, they
built great boats of birch bark, they packed them with every kind of
provision they could think of, and in them they put to sea.
Understand that these were not a sea-faring people. They had no
tradition of ocean voyaging and no knowledge of navigation, and they
seem to have gone wrong from the outset. They should have sailed East
and North, according to their prophesy, but apparently they set out East
and South. They were blown by winds they knew nothing of, and they were
pushed by currents they did not know they were in. But, they were
extraordinary fortunate. Their provisions could never have lasted the
voyage out, but they found ways to catch fish and a certain amount of
edible seaweed. They managed to catch rainwater to replenish their
water supply, and neither storms nor disease nor even scurvy (it would
be interesting to know more about that seaweed) claimed many of their
number.
But, they were heading wrong. Nothing in the legends indicates that
they saw any land at all until they began to encounter floating "islands
of ice". This forced them finally to understand that something had gone
dreadfully wrong. By time they turned North, they had evidently cleared
the Cape of Good Hope, and they came to land, finally, in what was later
called the Coromandel Coast, on the Western shore of the sub-continent.
They never found their stranger with the pale skin and red or yellow
hair (or perhaps a red cap) and a name like thunder.
Obviously, there was no going back. At that time, the sub-continent was
entirely unpopulated by humans, but these were stout-spirited people,
and they explored their new land courageously and with high hopes, and
they liked it and found it good. The forests were full of game, and the
land was fertile, and they thrived and they multiplied. Naturally, when
they came to build their new capital, they called it after the old one.
You can make some estimate of the date of the founding from the change
in pronunciation of its name, though some scholars believe the older
pronunciation to be more like the name of the new capital than the old
one, the language in the old country having evolved away from it.
That the legend --or something very like it-- must be true is shown by
the fact that, though a number of other peoples have long since entered
the subcontinent, it remains to this day populated very largely by
Indians.
Paul J Gans
WONDERFUL!!!!!
Thank you!
----- Paul J. Gans
a.spencer3
Sorry, but this is pure nonsense, and recognisable as such to all but Hines.
I won't bore you good people with the massive detail behind my own research,
since you would probably understand it rather better than I.
Linguistic studies show that 'West' tends to infer a position to the left of
the source, and 'East' a position to the right. But that is according to
modern cartographic techniques - all here will recognise that in the days to
which we are referring, maps often reversed these positions.
'West' and 'East' are terms that would only be originated by the central
source.
Thus, the central source for the terms 'West Indies' and 'East Indies' could
only have originated from a position in the central Pacific.
Most likely claimant is that isolated group of islands, also misnamed by
Cook when he arrived and asked 'Who are ye'.
Please do get your facts right.
Surreyman
Jonathan J. Baker
>>Ah, ambiguous. You must remind me to post the explanation, some
>>day. At 3:40 in the morning, it's the wrong time to undertake
>>so lengthy a piece. The clue lies in the fact that the seat of
>>Delaware County (our neighbor in upstate New York) is Delhi
>>--pronounced DELL-high (as in "The cow kicked Nellhigh in the
>>bellhigh in the barn"), while the capital of "India" is _New_
>>Delhi, (to rhyme with "The cow kicked Nelly in the belly in the
>>barn"). Speculation on that reveals much.
>Now it's later. Here's the more:
>Obviously, there was no going back. At that time, the sub-continent was
>entirely unpopulated by humans, but these were stout-spirited people,
>and they explored their new land courageously and with high hopes, and
>they liked it and found it good. The forests were full of game, and the
>land was fertile, and they thrived and they multiplied. Naturally, when
>they came to build their new capital, they called it after the old one.
>You can make some estimate of the date of the founding from the change
>in pronunciation of its name, though some scholars believe the older
>pronunciation to be more like the name of the new capital than the old
>one, the language in the old country having evolved away from it.
>That the legend --or something very like it-- must be true is shown by
>the fact that, though a number of other peoples have long since entered
>the subcontinent, it remains to this day populated very largely by
>Indians.
Bravo! "As they sailed across the poa,u, they drank the last of their
birch Beep..."
--
Jonathan Baker | Knock knock. Who's there? Mischa. Mischa who?
jjb...@panix.com | Mishenichnas Adar marbim besimcha.
--> New on <http://www.panix.com/~jjbaker/>: Tefilla columns <--
W. Baker
: Now it's later. Here's the more:
As one who lives in the southern part of Delaware County in the summers,
I must immediately see that this "true" "historical" account is made
required reading for all students in the local schools. Just think of
what they have been missing all these years.
Wendy Baker
D. Spencer Hines
Thousands of people are revolting against it.
We have millions of Native Americans in the United States and many of
them are NOT Amerinds.
Imposed, Leftover-Left "PC Language" is under assault in America.
Deus Vult.
Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum.
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
"Paul J Gans" <ga...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:c28tj4$jfr$5...@reader2.panix.com...
| Native American?
|
| ---- Paul J. Gans
Dick Wisan
>> county, Delaware, is called "Delhi", pronounced to rhyme with "well
>> nigh". People seem to expect it to rhyme with "belly", and strangers
>> from India occasionally resent the implication that it is older than
>>
>> ...That the legend ... must be true is shown by
>> the fact that, though a number of other peoples have long since entered
>> the subcontinent, it remains to this day populated very largely by
>> Indians.
>>
>
>Sorry, but this is pure nonsense, and recognisable as such to all but Hines.
>I won't bore you good people with the massive detail behind my own research,
>since you would probably understand it rather better than I.
>Linguistic studies show that 'West' tends to infer a position to the left of
>the source, and 'East' a position to the right. But that is according to
>modern cartographic techniques - all here will recognise that in the days to
>which we are referring, maps often reversed these positions.
>'West' and 'East' are terms that would only be originated by the central
>source.
>Thus, the central source for the terms 'West Indies' and 'East Indies' could
>only have originated from a position in the central Pacific.
>Most likely claimant is that isolated group of islands, also misnamed by
>Cook when he arrived and asked 'Who are ye'.
>Please do get your facts right.
This theory of yours is extremely interesting, and I encourage you to
continue your research. I believe stories about the Stranger with the
pale face and red or yellow hair (or perhaps a red cap) are found in
that part of the world, also.
D. Spencer Hines
ganserine, anserine assertion.
Gans like many New Yorkers of his congenital Leftist ilk believes all
that rubbish about other parts of the United States he gets from his
Marxist mentors and sources.
New York University, Gans's own employer, uses the term "race"....
Gans had better straighten them out first, before he heads off to parts
unknown.
Deeeelightful!
DSH
"Paul J Gans" <ga...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:c2dffu$1on$4...@reader2.panix.com...
| There are, as you know, many parts of the US where dark-skinned
| Indians (from India) are treated just as if they were Black.
|
| Sadly, most bigots have long since figured out that skin color
| is a silly thing to base likes and dislikes upon, so they use
| the term "race" to imply that there are deeper distinctions.
|
| ---- Paul J. Gans