Howard

Howard R Olson, MA
Director
Institute for Exobiology
http://members.tripod.com/~hrolson/index.html

This guy claims so many unlikely events in his life, including
a first-time solo flight by stealing a real modern plane and stuff
on a Van Daniken level in northern Tibet that much looks like its
a poseur publication. However no smoke without fire and a kite
isnt really high tech and quite a possibility - we have them
now for leisure at many beach resorts. But why need Monks Fly ?
My reading of tibetan lore suggests Lamas prefer esoteric means
for getting about not what seems "science-magic" ones.

I'm doing a History of Healing.
My reseraches might get something from you please. Any stuff on
Haoma or Soma the magic brew of the Vedic period from your sites ?

I wonder if you know of any drinking vessels designed for ritual brews,
like the ones they identified for the Olmec culture in Mexico but
in archaeology in India / Pakistan region. The pix of a Tibetan
medical figure Milarepa often show something like a pottery vase about
8 inch high with decorations thereon - no lid sometimes. He was
a medical buddha figure so the imagery could appear in a scenario of
quite a lot of buddhas forming a cloud so to speak as well as
a single decorated artifract vase. The vase seems attached to Soma
concept and healing attributes. I long to find one to examine.Im
interested in any symbolic vegetation and rituals thereon.

If you want details I can find it.
--
Peter Wingfield-Stratford

happy surf herlu, from hamburg, de; gate to the world
http://members.aol.com/herlu/home/index.htm
home of the links
links: internet, ufo, paranormal, magick, nu-energy, business/invest, jobs,
entertainment, travel, martial arts, sci fi,  pers.pgs,  java

A recent post from Peter Gowdy on this:

ubject: Re: Further on India Ancient Flying Objects
From: "Peter D. Gowdy" <pgo...@stokes.harvard.edu>
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 11:00:28 +0000

So I had another look at the supposed ancient Indian text where Vimanas
are described.  The Forward (which is a news report sent to various
newspapers, radio stations, etc, to all major cities at the time) to the
translation is revealing:

In the Foreward the writer (the english translator I think) claims that
the text is "several thousands of years old."  However, the text was
written in Sanskrit, then translated into English, in the mid to late 1920
to early 1930s.  The text and Foreward were written during the end of
British occupation of India and when Gandhi's non-cooperation effort was
catching on (I think).  The title page of the text states the title and
"as revealed by" so-and-so.  My questions is what is meant by "revealed."  
Since the substance of the text is claimed to be "several thousands
of years old" then I see at least two possibilities, there may be others.  
Either:

1.  The contents of the text were passed on by word-of-mouth over several
millenia of generations.  If so, then I can only imagine the distortions
that would have been introduced.  Yet, the text is quite clear, lucid and
sensible (to a degree, if one takes the position of the Devil's advocate).  
It does not appear muddled in any way and it is well organized and
structured.  The amount of detail is phenomenal and it seems difficult to
imaging how it could have been memorized and retold over millenia
of generations (remember, some here are attributing it to a great
civilization of around at least 20,000 BC) without some evidence of
distortion or omission; there seems to be none and it seems complete.

2.  The contents were "channelled" or "psychically transmitted" to the
author from long dead rishis, sages, "scientists" or whatever.  This
interpretation makes some sense because all throughout the text there are
subsections (in each main section that is devoted to a single topic) in
each main section where it is said, "Maharishi so-and-so says:".  Often
what these other people say are openenly admitted as contradictory in some
(minor) details what a different sage has said on the topic
under discussion; else these other people just add additional information
appropriate to that section of the overall text.  So the text clearly
reads as a wierd discussion among dead sages, rishis, scientists or
whatever all simultaneously contributing to the overall text.

I favor interpretation 2 simply because the text as a whole and in its
details seems to be most compatible with it.  On that basis I say "bunk"
to the authenticity and plausibility of the text.  Nevertheless,
interpretation 1 could also be true in which case each generation has
memorized the text's main contents and those places where a discrepancy
among sages exists, and the individual contribution by different
sages of different details on Vimana construction; quite remarkable if
true; these sages must have been bred for their memory abilities.

Incidentally, the text itself is strange; it is a strange amalgam of
apparently very high technological machinery and very primitive materials
and processes employing naturally occuring (plant and animal) products.  
Not quite what I would expect for a society that is supposedly making
areal trips across the world, interstellar trips to other planets, the
moon, and waging nuclear war as has been claimed.  It seems
more as if someone wanted to describe flying machines and generally how to
make them, but was hindered by the fact that he could only imagine then
existing flying machines and those described in some science fiction of
the time and only understood more traditional and primitive processes and
elements.

Also, the diagrams (produced much more recently I might add) of the three
types of Vimana are strange.  One looks like it could fly at a fast rate
(it is saucer shaped).  The others simply cannot -- one is a four-sided
pyramid with a crystal on top and propellers on all four sides.  The
intended direction of flight is clearly such that the point of the pyramid
faces up (against the direction of gravity) and the base down.  
Furthermore, these things do not look like aircraft that would be
mass-produced; they look like each would be unique and one-of-a-kind; sort
of what the images of space craft in the movie Dune suggested;
renaissance-like in terms of individuality.  They look like the level of
technology in _most_ respects equivalent to the level of technology needed
to make a zepplin (but the vimana clearly do not
rely on lighter-than-air gasses for lift).  Yet there are references to
radar, anti-gravity devices, darkness generators, invisibility generators,
solar power, heat, cold, lightening absorbing metals, alien power
absorbers (I don't know what is meant by that), missles, poison gas
emittors, power coils, etc.

Pete

Message-ID: <35EFC849.D443A...@stokes.harvard.edu>

Doug
--
 Doug Weller  Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated
 Submissions to:sci-archaeology-modera...@medieval.org
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The author "claims" he was trained at Chakpori Lamassery
near Lhasa and periodically went to the higher and remote parts
of Tibet to gather herbs. There  he says he flew in man-
lifting kites. There was also a mention of the Chang Tang highlands.

He claims to have known the (13th) Dalai Lama
who was his patron.

His knowledge of places and Tibetan medicine and esoteric practices that
I read in the book is sometimes very authentic of Tibet but much of the
story of his later life in Wartime China and acceptance as a Doctor in
Chinese practice seems very far fetched & He escaped to America.

The book claims it is a memoir and he evidently made a good living with
a series of them. The book plate mentions his Estate and another co-
publisher so I suspect someone involved in publishing these memoirs may
have padded out a basic biography with quite a lot of new age stuff
after his death.

The Authors claimed Chinese experiences may point to where the Kite
business may have come from if not Tibet.

If the "Kite Flying" was real and in the Tibetan Highlands where herb
gathering for medicine took place, then my info suggests it may be near
the Holy Mountain Kailesa and thus not far from the Tibet / Pakistan
border area. Sadly most of the numerous Lamasseries there have been
utterly destroyed in the Cultural revolution and their monks were
dispersed. Otherwise his lifes flavour of esoteric practice suggests
time in contact with adepts of the Bon tradition of Tibetan Lamaism.
They predominate in the North & West of Tibet.

--
Peter Wingfield-Stratford

The information comes from a book channeled to someone
in the 20th century.

------------

I think you should read it for yourself, because I
don't get "channeled" from my reading of "Srimad
Bhagavatam" in the First Canto, "Creation", Part One --
Chapters 1-7, "With a Short Life Sketch of Lord Sri
Caitanya Mahaprabhu, the Ideal Preacher of
Bhagavata-dharma, and with the Original Sanskrit Text,
Its Roman Transliteration, Synonyms, Translation and
Elaborate Purports by His Divine Grace
A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Founder-Acarya of
the International Society for Krishna Consciousness",
specifically [Canto 1, Ch. 7, Text 17], "The Son of
Drona Punished", pages 360-366, first English printing
1972, and the 3 books of "Bhagavad-gita As It Is".

However, in all fairness, I think he deliberately plays
down the aspect of technology in reference to the
machines, and attributes this eventually to something
like the power that is in a word/motion  that kills,
like the masters of the Shao Lin monks, not exactly
chi, and on a bigger scale, as in "nuclear", or "astram
brahma-siro mene", the topmost or ultimate weapon
applied. Drona is called here, a martial teacher.  Or,
you could try to find a translation of "Mahabharata",
which is the Vedic manuscript that relates the machines
and their power.

--Carrie

[SNIP]

I'll be fascinated to see if anyone can trace these books back before this
century.  I've never found anyone who could.

Being originally written in Sanskrit doesn't make it old, of course.
Here's what Peter Gowdy wrote recently about this:

QUOTED POST:

So I had another look at the supposed ancient Indian text where Vimanas
are described.  The Forward (which is a news report sent to various
newspapers, radio stations, etc, to all major cities at the time) to the
translation is revealing:

In the Foreward the writer (the english translator I think) claims that
the text is "several thousands of years old."  However, the text was
written in Sanskrit, then translated into English, in the mid to late 1920
to early 1930s.  The text and Foreward were written during the end of
British occupation of India and when Gandhi's non-cooperation effort was
catching on (I think).  The title page of the text states the title and
"as revealed by" so-and-so.  My questions is what is meant
by "revealed."  Since the substance of the text is claimed to be "several
thousands of years old" then I see at least two possibilities, there may
be others.  Either:

1.  The contents of the text were passed on by word-of-mouth over several
millenia of generations.  If so, then I can only imagine the distortions
that would have been introduced.  Yet, the text is quite clear, lucid and
sensible (to a degree, if one takes the position of the Devil's advocate).  
It does not appear muddled in any way and it is well organized and
structured.  The amount of detail is phenomenal and it seems difficult to
imaging how it could have been memorized and retold over millenia
of generations (remember, some here are attributing it to a great
civilization of around at least 20,000 BC) without some evidence of
distortion or omission; there
seems to be none and it seems complete.

2.  The contents were "channelled" or "psychically transmitted" to the
author from long dead rishis, sages, "scientists" or whatever.  This
interpretation makes some sense because all throughout the text there are
subsections (in each main section that is devoted to a single topic) in
each main section where it is said, "Maharishi so-and-so says:".  Often
what these other people say are openenly admitted as
contradictory in some (minor) details what a different sage has said on
the topic under discussion; else these other people just add additional
information appropriate to that section of the overall text.  So the text
clearly reads as a wierd discussion among dead sages, rishis, scientists
or whatever all simultaneously contributing to the overall text.

I favor interpretation 2 simply because the text as a whole and in its
details seems to be most compatible with it.  On that basis I say "bunk"
to the authenticity and plausibility of the text.  Nevertheless,
interpretation 1 could also be true in which case each generation has
memorized the text's main contents and those places where a discrepancy
among sages exists, and the individual contribution by different
sages of different details on Vimana construction; quite remarkable if
true; these sages must have been bred for their memory abilities.

Incidentally, the text itself is strange; it is a strange amalgam of
apparently very high technological machinery and very primitive materials
and processes employing naturally occuring (plant and animal) products.  
Not quite what I would expect for a society that is supposedly making
areal trips across the world, interstellar trips to other planets, the
moon, and waging nuclear war as has been claimed.  It seems more as if
someone wanted to describe flying machines and generally how to make
them, but was hidered by the fact that he could only imagine then existing
flying machines and those described in some science fiction of the time
and only understood more traditional and primitive processes and elements.

Also, the diagrams (produced much more recently I might add) of the three
types of Vimana are strange.  One looks like it could fly at a fast rate
(it is saucer shaped).  The others simply cannot -- one is a four-sided
pyramid with a crystal on top and propellers on all four sides.  The
intended direction of flight is clearly such that the point of the pyramid
faces up (against the direction of gravity) and the base down.  
Furthermore, these things do not look like aircraft that would be
mass-produced; they look like each would be unique and one-of-a-kind; sort
of what the images of space craft in the movie Dune suggested;
renaissance-like in terms of individuality.  They look like the level of
technology in _most_ respects equivalent to the level of technology needed
to make a zepplin (but the vimana clearly do not rely on lighter-than-air
gasses for lift).  Yet there are references to radar, anti-gravity
devices, darkness generators, invisibility generators, solar power,
heat, cold, lightening absorbing metals, alien power absorbers (I don't
know what is meant by that), missles, poison gas emittors, power coils,
etc.

Pete

Message-ID: <35EFC849.D443A...@stokes.harvard.edu>

--
 Doug Weller  Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated
 Submissions to:sci-archaeology-modera...@medieval.org
 Requests To: arch-moderat...@ucl.ac.uk
 Co-owner UK-Schools mailing list: email me for details

Never owned a passport, spoke no Tibetan, etc, also wrote two books which
explained that the 'real Rampa' had occupied his body.  Wrote another book
about a trip in a flying saucer -- explained in yet another UFO book that
flying saucers couldn't land on earth because they were anti-matter, so
contact with the ground would cause an explosion.  Didn't realise that so
would contact with air!

Doug
--
 Doug Weller  Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated
 Submissions to:sci-archaeology-modera...@medieval.org
 Requests To: arch-moderat...@ucl.ac.uk
 Co-owner UK-Schools mailing list: email me for details

the best reference is in Ramachandra Dikshitar's War in Ancient India
(published in 1944, University of Madras); see chapter VII, pages
277-286.  this is a standard reference work in indo-iranian studies
and is highly regarded by legitimate researchers in ancient indian
warfare.  anyway, he mentions passages in the Satapatha Brahmana (II,
3, 3, 15) and Rg Veda, mandala I, 117, 14-15 and several other
original sources.  i see no reason why the ancient indians could not
have invented hot air balloons or other flying devices.  such things
would almost certainly have been made of non-permanent materials
(wood, skin, rope, etc.) and would not survive in the archaeological
remains.  they are, however, clearly mentioned in the texts, whether
one takes them to be balloons or something more.