Tingha is typical of most rural townships in NSW. It was founded on Aboriginal land in the 19th century by Europeans pursuing economic opportunities. In the early 19th century the area was used for sheep grazing by colonial squatters.
Tin ore was discovered at Tingha in 1870 and a thriving mining industry developed soon after. Like most mining booms it attracted people of all nationalities from all over the world seeking their fortune.
At the peak of the tin boom in the early 1880s Tingha was the largest tin-producing region in NSW and the area attracted a population of 4000 5000 of whom approximately 900 were Chinese. The township of Tingha started as a mining camp created to accommodate and service the population of miners.
Somebody removed it 3000 years ago http://www.nrm.gov.au/business-plan/images/coastcare-coorong.gif Alluvial fan From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search A vast alluvial fan blossoms across the desolate landscape between the Kunlun and Altun mountain ranges that form the southern border of the Taklamakan Desert in Xinjiang. The left side is the active part of the fan, and appears blue from water flowing in the many small streams Credit: NASA/GSFC/METI/ERSDAC/JAROS/ASTER Alluvial fan in Death Valley Alluvial fan in the French Pyrenees
An alluvial fan is a fan-shaped deposit formed where a fast flowing stream flattens, slows, and spreads typically at the exit of a canyon onto a flatter plain. A convergence of neighboring alluvial fans into a single apron of deposits against a slope is called a bajada, or compound alluvial fan.[1]
Owing to the flow as stream gradient decreases, coarse-grained solid material carried by the water is dropped. As this reduces the capacity of the channel, the channel will change direction over time, gradually building up a slightly mounded or shallow conical fan shape. The deposits are usually poorly-sorted.[1] [2] This fan shape can also be explained with a thermodynamic justification: the system of sediment introduced at the apex of the fan will tend to a state which minimizes the sum of the transport energy involved in moving the sediment and the gravitational potential of material in the cone. There will be iso- transport energy lines forming concentric arcs about the discharge point at the apex of the fan. Thus the material will tend to be deposited equally about these lines, forming the characteristic cone shape.
[edit] In arid climates
Alluvial fans are often found in desert areas subject to periodic flash floods from nearby thunderstorms in local hills. They are common around the margins of the sedimentary basins of the Basin and Range province of southwestern North America. The typical watercourse in an arid climate has a large, funnel-shaped basin at the top, leading to a narrow defile, which opens out into an alluvial fan at the bottom. Multiple braided streams are usually present and active during water flows.
On Jul 22, 8:20 am, LloydB <bogart.l...@uwlax.edu> wrote:
> On Jul 21, 5:00 pm, kangarooistan <kangarooist...@gmail.com> wrote:
. > > How long until the EXPERTS admit the Alluvial Fan that should be found > > at the Mouth of the River Murray in South Australia is missing
> The EXPERTS you refer to are extremely > unlikely to be archaeologists. Or, for that > matter, historians.
> Please stop cross-posting to sci.archaeology.
> (We have enough hobbyhorse pilots here > without adding to the stable.)
Very interesting observation LoydB
I see , is it only YOUR hobby horses that are permitted oxygen ??
Or do you think the history of mans manipulation of the biggest river in Australia has nothing to offer Archaeology or history ???
People who think like you mate are exactly WHY Archaeologists and historians STILL dont know who was mining " tin " at the mouth of the river Murray 3000 years ago , mate
People who think like you mate , are the reason Historians and Archaeologists STILL dont know what caused the Bronze age collapse
WHEN they discover who removed the fan from the mouth of the river Murray 3000 years ago , they will KNOW why the ancient world COLLAPSED about 3000 years ago when the " sea People / Phoenicians " were over run , and the trade links to the largest supplies of easy won " tin / black sand " was LOST
People like YOU Lloyd , IMHO , are the problem with Historians and Archaeologists mate
One day in years to come , when the REAL Archaeologists and REAL historians eventually work out WHO took the " tin / black sand "from the mouth of the River Murray 3000 odd years ago future students will be totally AMAZED at how long it actually took to " educate ' the so called expwerts who refuse to even " see " there is a link
EXACTLY like you yourself just did Lloyd
I know history and archaeology are not everybody " cup of tea " and Australian ancient history even less " interesting " compared to other ancient cultures mate
I can understand you apparent position , but I do EXPECT any REAL historian/ Archaeologist to at least permit people to examine the matter on all the groups I cross post to
Its certainly NOT every bodies " must read " , not one in a million will be interested , but once the topic is up on lone for review in due time those google searching in FUTURE will be able to see my observations and POV , and perhaps ADD to it in years to come ,mate
Please ignore the topics if you are not interested
wait until the REAL experts eventually " discover " the ancient' sea peoples / Phoenicians " mined the area over several thousand years , for " tin / black sand " over 3000years ago , and supplied about 90% of the bronze age "tin / back sands " , from the fan at the mouth of the River Murray in South Australia
And future generations can see how hard it was to deal with the so called experts in 2009 , pretty much like the experts in all disciplines , it seems , in all history
EXPERTS are often the slowest to accept the newest facts , its the younger amateurs who can " see / think " outside the sq that find the hidden stuff , often right under the experts noses
In time it IS actually possible to educate even EXPERTS mate
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:00:46 -0700 (PDT), kangarooistan
<kangarooist...@gmail.com> wrote: >How long until the EXPERTS admit the Alluvial Fan that should be found >at the Mouth of the River Murray in South Australia is missing
> On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:00:46 -0700 (PDT), kangarooistan
> <kangarooist...@gmail.com> wrote: > >How long until the EXPERTS admit the Alluvial Fan that should be found > >at the Mouth of the River Murray in South Australia is missing
>> <kangarooist...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >How long until the EXPERTS admit the Alluvial Fan that should be found >> >at the Mouth of the River Murray in South Australia is missing
> >> <kangarooist...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >How long until the EXPERTS admit the Alluvial Fan that should be found > >> >at the Mouth of the River Murray in South Australia is missing
> Tingha is typical of most rural townships in NSW. It was founded on > Aboriginal land in the 19th century by Europeans pursuing economic > opportunities. In the early 19th century the area was used for sheep > grazing by colonial squatters.
> Tin ore was discovered at Tingha in 1870 and a thriving mining > industry developed soon after. Like most mining booms it attracted > people of all nationalities from all over the world seeking their > fortune.
> At the peak of the tin boom in the early 1880s Tingha was the largest > tin-producing region in NSW and the area attracted a population of > 4000 5000 of whom approximately 900 were Chinese. The township of > Tingha started as a mining camp created to accommodate and service the > population of miners.
> Somebody removed it 3000 years agohttp://www.nrm.gov.au/business-plan/images/coastcare-coorong.gif > Alluvial fan > From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia > Jump to: navigation, search > A vast alluvial fan blossoms across the desolate landscape between the > Kunlun and Altun mountain ranges that form the southern border of the > Taklamakan Desert in Xinjiang. The left side is the active part of the > fan, and appears blue from water flowing in the many small streams > Credit: NASA/GSFC/METI/ERSDAC/JAROS/ASTER > Alluvial fan in Death Valley > Alluvial fan in the French Pyrenees
> An alluvial fan is a fan-shaped deposit formed where a fast flowing > stream flattens, slows, and spreads typically at the exit of a canyon > onto a flatter plain. A convergence of neighboring alluvial fans into > a single apron of deposits against a slope is called a bajada, or > compound alluvial fan.[1]
> Owing to the flow as stream gradient decreases, coarse-grained solid > material carried by the water is dropped. As this reduces the capacity > of the channel, the channel will change direction over time, gradually > building up a slightly mounded or shallow conical fan shape. The > deposits are usually poorly-sorted.[1] [2] This fan shape can also be > explained with a thermodynamic justification: the system of sediment > introduced at the apex of the fan will tend to a state which minimizes > the sum of the transport energy involved in moving the sediment and > the gravitational potential of material in the cone. There will be iso- > transport energy lines forming concentric arcs about the discharge > point at the apex of the fan. Thus the material will tend to be > deposited equally about these lines, forming the characteristic cone > shape.
> [edit] In arid climates
> Alluvial fans are often found in desert areas subject to periodic > flash floods from nearby thunderstorms in local hills. They are common > around the margins of the sedimentary basins of the Basin and Range > province of southwestern North America. The typical watercourse in an > arid climate has a large, funnel-shaped basin at the top, leading to a > narrow defile, which opens out into an alluvial fan at the bottom. > Multiple braided streams are usually present and active during water > flows.
I'm curious as to why you would expect an alluvial fan at the mouth of the Murray, instead of the dune-like barrier island(s) of the Coorong?
Look at a river with a similar average flow rate, the Perdido River that forms the western border between the American states of Alabama and Florida. (On Google Maps, I found many similar situations with other rivers; but the Perdido, as I mentioned, carries a roughly equivalent amount of water to the Murray.)
The mouth of the Perdido looks a lot like the mouth of the Murray, with a bay behind long, dune-like islands. I wonder what mechanism, other than mining, you think explains the situation at the mouth of the Perdido? Or do you think that most/all of these landforms are due to mining?
As for your references to alluvial fans, they refer to the outflow of rivers onto plains, not into the sea. Seas often have currents that run across the mouths of rivers, carrying sand, etc, along the coast, rather than straight out to sea. This results in what we see at the mouth of the Perdido, and at the mouth of the Murray.
> On Jul 21, 5:00 pm, kangarooistan <kangarooist...@gmail.com> wrote:
[snip] > I'm curious as to why you would expect an alluvial fan at the mouth of > the Murray, instead of the dune-like barrier island(s) of the > Coorong?
> Look at a river with a similar average flow rate, the Perdido River > that forms the western border between the American states of Alabama > and Florida. (On Google Maps, I found many similar situations with > other rivers; but the Perdido, as I mentioned, carries a roughly > equivalent amount of water to the Murray.)
> The mouth of the Perdido looks a lot like the mouth of the Murray, > with a bay behind long, dune-like islands. I wonder what mechanism, > other than mining, you think explains the situation at the mouth of > the Perdido? Or do you think that most/all of these landforms are due > to mining?
> As for your references to alluvial fans, they refer to the outflow of > rivers onto plains, not into the sea. Seas often have currents that > run across the mouths of rivers, carrying sand, etc, along the coast, > rather than straight out to sea. This results in what we see at the > mouth of the Perdido, and at the mouth of the Murray.
I'm not at all ashamed to admit that I was wrong.
The folks is sci.archeology *do* know more about the subject than the OP.
> On Jul 21, 5:00 pm, kangarooistan <kangarooist...@gmail.com> wrote: > > How long until the EXPERTS admit the Alluvial Fan that should be found > > at the Mouth of the River Murray in South Australia is missing
> > Tingha is typical of most rural townships in NSW. It was founded on > > Aboriginal land in the 19th century by Europeans pursuing economic > > opportunities. In the early 19th century the area was used for sheep > > grazing by colonial squatters.
> > Tin ore was discovered at Tingha in 1870 and a thriving mining > > industry developed soon after. Like most mining booms it attracted > > people of all nationalities from all over the world seeking their > > fortune.
> > At the peak of the tin boom in the early 1880s Tingha was the largest > > tin-producing region in NSW and the area attracted a population of > > 4000 5000 of whom approximately 900 were Chinese. The township of > > Tingha started as a mining camp created to accommodate and service the > > population of miners.
> > Somebody removed it 3000 years agohttp://www.nrm.gov.au/business-plan/images/coastcare-coorong.gif > > Alluvial fan > > From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia > > Jump to: navigation, search > > A vast alluvial fan blossoms across the desolate landscape between the > > Kunlun and Altun mountain ranges that form the southern border of the > > Taklamakan Desert in Xinjiang. The left side is the active part of the > > fan, and appears blue from water flowing in the many small streams > > Credit: NASA/GSFC/METI/ERSDAC/JAROS/ASTER > > Alluvial fan in Death Valley > > Alluvial fan in the French Pyrenees
> > An alluvial fan is a fan-shaped deposit formed where a fast flowing > > stream flattens, slows, and spreads typically at the exit of a canyon > > onto a flatter plain. A convergence of neighboring alluvial fans into > > a single apron of deposits against a slope is called a bajada, or > > compound alluvial fan.[1]
> > Owing to the flow as stream gradient decreases, coarse-grained solid > > material carried by the water is dropped. As this reduces the capacity > > of the channel, the channel will change direction over time, gradually > > building up a slightly mounded or shallow conical fan shape. The > > deposits are usually poorly-sorted.[1] [2] This fan shape can also be > > explained with a thermodynamic justification: the system of sediment > > introduced at the apex of the fan will tend to a state which minimizes > > the sum of the transport energy involved in moving the sediment and > > the gravitational potential of material in the cone. There will be iso- > > transport energy lines forming concentric arcs about the discharge > > point at the apex of the fan. Thus the material will tend to be > > deposited equally about these lines, forming the characteristic cone > > shape.
> > [edit] In arid climates
> > Alluvial fans are often found in desert areas subject to periodic > > flash floods from nearby thunderstorms in local hills. They are common > > around the margins of the sedimentary basins of the Basin and Range > > province of southwestern North America. The typical watercourse in an > > arid climate has a large, funnel-shaped basin at the top, leading to a > > narrow defile, which opens out into an alluvial fan at the bottom. > > Multiple braided streams are usually present and active during water > > flows.
> I'm curious as to why you would expect an alluvial fan at the mouth of > the Murray, instead of the dune-like barrier island(s) of the > Coorong?
> Look at a river with a similar average flow rate, the Perdido River > that forms the western border between the American states of Alabama > and Florida. (On Google Maps, I found many similar situations with > other rivers; but the Perdido, as I mentioned, carries a roughly > equivalent amount of water to the Murray.)
> The mouth of the Perdido looks a lot like the mouth of the Murray, > with a bay behind long, dune-like islands. I wonder what mechanism, > other than mining, you think explains the situation at the mouth of > the Perdido? Or do you think that most/all of these landforms are due > to mining?
> As for your references to alluvial fans, they refer to the outflow of > rivers onto plains, not into the sea. Seas often have currents that > run across the mouths of rivers, carrying sand, etc, along the coast, > rather than straight out to sea.
Agreed - generally known as Longshore Drift.
> This results in what we see at the > mouth of the Perdido, and at the mouth of the Murray.
> > Tingha is typical of most rural townships in NSW. It was founded on > > Aboriginal land in the 19th century by Europeans pursuing economic > > opportunities. In the early 19th century the area was used for sheep > > grazing by colonial squatters.
> > Tin ore was discovered at Tingha in 1870 and a thriving mining > > industry developed soon after. Like most mining booms it attracted > > people of all nationalities from all over the world seeking their > > fortune.
> > At the peak of the tin boom in the early 1880s Tingha was the largest > > tin-producing region in NSW and the area attracted a population of > > 4000 5000 of whom approximately 900 were Chinese. The township of > > Tingha started as a mining camp created to accommodate and service the > > population of miners.
> > Somebody removed it 3000 years agohttp://www.nrm.gov.au/business-plan/images/coastcare-coorong.gif > > Alluvial fan > > From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia > > Jump to: navigation, search > > A vast alluvial fan blossoms across the desolate landscape between the > > Kunlun and Altun mountain ranges that form the southern border of the > > Taklamakan Desert in Xinjiang. The left side is the active part of the > > fan, and appears blue from water flowing in the many small streams > > Credit: NASA/GSFC/METI/ERSDAC/JAROS/ASTER > > Alluvial fan in Death Valley > > Alluvial fan in the French Pyrenees
> > An alluvial fan is a fan-shaped deposit formed where a fast flowing > > stream flattens, slows, and spreads typically at the exit of a canyon > > onto a flatter plain. A convergence of neighboring alluvial fans into > > a single apron of deposits against a slope is called a bajada, or > > compound alluvial fan.[1]
> > Owing to the flow as stream gradient decreases, coarse-grained solid > > material carried by the water is dropped. As this reduces the capacity > > of the channel, the channel will change direction over time, gradually > > building up a slightly mounded or shallow conical fan shape. The > > deposits are usually poorly-sorted.[1] [2] This fan shape can also be > > explained with a thermodynamic justification: the system of sediment > > introduced at the apex of the fan will tend to a state which minimizes > > the sum of the transport energy involved in moving the sediment and > > the gravitational potential of material in the cone. There will be iso- > > transport energy lines forming concentric arcs about the discharge > > point at the apex of the fan. Thus the material will tend to be > > deposited equally about these lines, forming the characteristic cone > > shape.
> > [edit] In arid climates
> > Alluvial fans are often found in desert areas subject to periodic > > flash floods from nearby thunderstorms in local hills. They are common > > around the margins of the sedimentary basins of the Basin and Range > > province of southwestern North America. The typical watercourse in an > > arid climate has a large, funnel-shaped basin at the top, leading to a > > narrow defile, which opens out into an alluvial fan at the bottom. > > Multiple braided streams are usually present and active during water > > flows.
> I'm curious as to why you would expect an alluvial fan at the mouth of > the Murray, instead of the dune-like barrier island(s) of the > Coorong?
> Look at a river with a similar average flow rate, the Perdido River > that forms the western border between the American states of Alabama > and Florida. (On Google Maps, I found many similar situations with > other rivers; but the Perdido, as I mentioned, carries a roughly > equivalent amount of water to the Murray.)
> The mouth of the Perdido looks a lot like the mouth of the Murray, > with a bay behind long, dune-like islands. I wonder what mechanism, > other than mining, you think explains the situation at the mouth of > the Perdido? Or do you think that most/all of these landforms are due > to mining?
.THANKS Tom
This is an EXCELLENT find mate
> As for your references to alluvial fans, they refer to the outflow of > rivers onto plains, not into the sea. Seas often have currents that > run across the mouths of rivers, carrying sand, etc, along the coast, > rather than straight out to sea. This results in what we see at the > mouth of the Perdido, and at the mouth of the Murray.
I will examine this site with great pleasure INDEED
It looks almost exactly like the Mouth Of The Murray / Lower Lakes
INDEED
Now I can compare the 2 sites to see IF there is even MORE evidence that 3000 years ago a million tons of HMS / black sand was removed from the site in South Australia
At FIRST casual glance I admit they LOOK similar
My research has considered the volume of material eroded over several MILLION sq km to a depth of 3000 over the last 500 million years that has run down the 3375km Murray Darling SLUICE
I note the river you mention was only 100 km long , but to be fair I will need to calculate how many millions of cubic km of material has run down the said river to establish IF they are really as comparable as you say SIZE is important TOM
I know of local " streams " that do indeed look exactly like the rivers you describe
I remain convinced the site in South Australia will INDEED hold out as an ancient mine site as their really is a truly VAST VAST body of evidence available for those interested enough to invest their time , sadly an ancient mine is south Australia wont ever excite many people as we all know it not real hot topic for most people
> > > Tingha is typical of most rural townships in NSW. It was founded on > > > Aboriginal land in the 19th century by Europeans pursuing economic > > > opportunities. In the early 19th century the area was used for sheep > > > grazing by colonial squatters.
> > > Tin ore was discovered at Tingha in 1870 and a thriving mining > > > industry developed soon after. Like most mining booms it attracted > > > people of all nationalities from all over the world seeking their > > > fortune.
> > > At the peak of the tin boom in the early 1880s Tingha was the largest > > > tin-producing region in NSW and the area attracted a population of > > > 4000 5000 of whom approximately 900 were Chinese. The township of > > > Tingha started as a mining camp created to accommodate and service the > > > population of miners.
> > > Somebody removed it 3000 years agohttp://www.nrm.gov.au/business-plan/images/coastcare-coorong.gif > > > Alluvial fan > > > From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia > > > Jump to: navigation, search > > > A vast alluvial fan blossoms across the desolate landscape between the > > > Kunlun and Altun mountain ranges that form the southern border of the > > > Taklamakan Desert in Xinjiang. The left side is the active part of the > > > fan, and appears blue from water flowing in the many small streams > > > Credit: NASA/GSFC/METI/ERSDAC/JAROS/ASTER > > > Alluvial fan in Death Valley > > > Alluvial fan in the French Pyrenees
> > > An alluvial fan is a fan-shaped deposit formed where a fast flowing > > > stream flattens, slows, and spreads typically at the exit of a canyon > > > onto a flatter plain. A convergence of neighboring alluvial fans into > > > a single apron of deposits against a slope is called a bajada, or > > > compound alluvial fan.[1]
> > > Owing to the flow as stream gradient decreases, coarse-grained solid > > > material carried by the water is dropped. As this reduces the capacity > > > of the channel, the channel will change direction over time, gradually > > > building up a slightly mounded or shallow conical fan shape. The > > > deposits are usually poorly-sorted.[1] [2] This fan shape can also be > > > explained with a thermodynamic justification: the system of sediment > > > introduced at the apex of the fan will tend to a state which minimizes > > > the sum of the transport energy involved in moving the sediment and > > > the gravitational potential of material in the cone. There will be iso- > > > transport energy lines forming concentric arcs about the discharge > > > point at the apex of the fan. Thus the material will tend to be > > > deposited equally about these lines, forming the characteristic cone > > > shape.
> > > [edit] In arid climates
> > > Alluvial fans are often found in desert areas subject to periodic > > > flash floods from nearby thunderstorms in local hills. They are common > > > around the margins of the sedimentary basins of the Basin and Range > > > province of southwestern North America. The typical watercourse in an > > > arid climate has a large, funnel-shaped basin at the top, leading to a > > > narrow defile, which opens out into an alluvial fan at the bottom. > > > Multiple braided streams are usually present and active during water > > > flows.
> > I'm curious as to why you would expect an alluvial fan at the mouth of > > the Murray, instead of the dune-like barrier island(s) of the > > Coorong?
> > Look at a river with a similar average flow rate, the Perdido River > > that forms the western border between the American states of Alabama > > and Florida. (On Google Maps, I found many similar situations with > > other rivers; but the Perdido, as I mentioned, carries a roughly > > equivalent amount of water to the Murray.)
> > The mouth of the Perdido looks a lot like the mouth of the Murray, > > with a bay behind long, dune-like islands. I wonder what mechanism, > > other than mining, you think explains the situation at the mouth of > > the Perdido? Or do you think that most/all of these landforms are due > > to mining?
> .THANKS Tom
> This is an EXCELLENT find mate
> > As for your references to alluvial fans, they refer to the outflow of > > rivers onto plains, not into the sea. Seas often have currents that > > run across the mouths of rivers, carrying sand, etc, along the coast, > > rather than straight out to sea. This results in what we see at the > > mouth of the Perdido, and at the mouth of the Murray.
> I will examine this site with great pleasure INDEED
> It looks almost exactly like the Mouth Of The Murray / Lower Lakes
> INDEED
> Now I can compare the 2 sites to see IF there is even MORE evidence > that 3000 years ago a million tons of HMS / black sand was removed > from the site in South Australia
> At FIRST casual glance I admit they LOOK similar
> My research has considered the volume of material eroded over several > MILLION sq km to a depth of 3000 over the last 500 million years that > has run down the 3375km Murray Darling SLUICE
But that 500 million years figure is not necessarily useful for this purpose. One would have to take into account plate tectonics, uplift (as well as erosion), and sea levels.
My first thought was that the numerous ice ages since the Cambrian have lowered sea levels from today's 'normal' level, which would result in long-lived rivers having taken much of the previously- deposited material far out to sea. The sea has only been at its current general level for a few thousand years -- in the Holocene. Therefore, the features we see at the mouth of the Murray have little to do with the deep time you mention.
> I note the river you mention was only 100 km long , but to be fair I > will need to calculate how many millions of cubic km of material has > run down the said river to establish IF they are really as comparable > as you say > SIZE is important TOM
> I know of local " streams " that do indeed look exactly like the > rivers you describe
> BUT fail the the test when SIZE / AGE / and volume are compared , a > million years and 500 million years , and 100 km and a 3375 km river > with a million sq km erorion to depth of 3000 meters or 30 meters > will look quite similar on maps and in pics , but quite different in > realityhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Perdidorivermap.pnghttp://www.pir.s......
See above. I don't think the age is relevant. The size may be relevant, but I did choose the Perdido for its general similarity in the matter of the size of its flow.
> I remain convinced the site in South Australia will INDEED hold out as > an ancient mine site as their really is a truly VAST VAST body of > evidence available for those interested enough to invest their time , > sadly an ancient mine is south Australia wont ever excite many people > as we all know it not real hot topic for most people
I would be very surprised if the Coorong turns out to be anything other than a dune-like barrier island created by the sand, etc, in the Murray combined with the long-shore drift glavallin mentioned.
> > > > Tingha is typical of most rural townships in NSW. It was founded on > > > > Aboriginal land in the 19th century by Europeans pursuing economic > > > > opportunities. In the early 19th century the area was used for sheep > > > > grazing by colonial squatters.
> > > > Tin ore was discovered at Tingha in 1870 and a thriving mining > > > > industry developed soon after. Like most mining booms it attracted > > > > people of all nationalities from all over the world seeking their > > > > fortune.
> > > > At the peak of the tin boom in the early 1880s Tingha was the largest > > > > tin-producing region in NSW and the area attracted a population of > > > > 4000 5000 of whom approximately 900 were Chinese. The township of > > > > Tingha started as a mining camp created to accommodate and service the > > > > population of miners.
> > > > Somebody removed it 3000 years agohttp://www.nrm.gov.au/business-plan/images/coastcare-coorong.gif > > > > Alluvial fan > > > > From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia > > > > Jump to: navigation, search > > > > A vast alluvial fan blossoms across the desolate landscape between the > > > > Kunlun and Altun mountain ranges that form the southern border of the > > > > Taklamakan Desert in Xinjiang. The left side is the active part of the > > > > fan, and appears blue from water flowing in the many small streams > > > > Credit: NASA/GSFC/METI/ERSDAC/JAROS/ASTER > > > > Alluvial fan in Death Valley > > > > Alluvial fan in the French Pyrenees
> > > > An alluvial fan is a fan-shaped deposit formed where a fast flowing > > > > stream flattens, slows, and spreads typically at the exit of a canyon > > > > onto a flatter plain. A convergence of neighboring alluvial fans into > > > > a single apron of deposits against a slope is called a bajada, or > > > > compound alluvial fan.[1]
> > > > Owing to the flow as stream gradient decreases, coarse-grained solid > > > > material carried by the water is dropped. As this reduces the capacity > > > > of the channel, the channel will change direction over time, gradually > > > > building up a slightly mounded or shallow conical fan shape. The > > > > deposits are usually poorly-sorted.[1] [2] This fan shape can also be > > > > explained with a thermodynamic justification: the system of sediment > > > > introduced at the apex of the fan will tend to a state which minimizes > > > > the sum of the transport energy involved in moving the sediment and > > > > the gravitational potential of material in the cone. There will be iso- > > > > transport energy lines forming concentric arcs about the discharge > > > > point at the apex of the fan. Thus the material will tend to be > > > > deposited equally about these lines, forming the characteristic cone > > > > shape.
> > > > [edit] In arid climates
> > > > Alluvial fans are often found in desert areas subject to periodic > > > > flash floods from nearby thunderstorms in local hills. They are common > > > > around the margins of the sedimentary basins of the Basin and Range > > > > province of southwestern North America. The typical watercourse in an > > > > arid climate has a large, funnel-shaped basin at the top, leading to a > > > > narrow defile, which opens out into an alluvial fan at the bottom. > > > > Multiple braided streams are usually present and active during water > > > > flows.
> > > I'm curious as to why you would expect an alluvial fan at the mouth of > > > the Murray, instead of the dune-like barrier island(s) of the > > > Coorong?
> > > Look at a river with a similar average flow rate, the Perdido River > > > that forms the western border between the American states of Alabama > > > and Florida. (On Google Maps, I found many similar situations with > > > other rivers; but the Perdido, as I mentioned, carries a roughly > > > equivalent amount of water to the Murray.)
> > > The mouth of the Perdido looks a lot like the mouth of the Murray, > > > with a bay behind long, dune-like islands. I wonder what mechanism, > > > other than mining, you think explains the situation at the mouth of > > > the Perdido? Or do you think that most/all of these landforms are due > > > to mining?
> > .THANKS Tom
> > This is an EXCELLENT find mate
> > > As for your references to alluvial fans, they refer to the outflow of > > > rivers onto plains, not into the sea. Seas often have currents that > > > run across the mouths of rivers, carrying sand, etc, along the coast, > > > rather than straight out to sea. This results in what we see at the > > > mouth of the Perdido, and at the mouth of the Murray.
> > I will examine this site with great pleasure INDEED
> > It looks almost exactly like the Mouth Of The Murray / Lower Lakes
> > INDEED
> > Now I can compare the 2 sites to see IF there is even MORE evidence > > that 3000 years ago a million tons of HMS / black sand was removed > > from the site in South Australia
> > At FIRST casual glance I admit they LOOK similar
> > My research has considered the volume of material eroded over several > > MILLION sq km to a depth of 3000 over the last 500 million years that > > has run down the 3375km Murray Darling SLUICE
> But that 500 million years figure is not necessarily useful for this > purpose. One would have to take into account plate tectonics, uplift > (as well as erosion), and sea levels.
> My first thought was that the numerous ice ages since the Cambrian > have lowered sea levels from today's 'normal' level, which would > result in long-lived rivers having taken much of the previously- > deposited material far out to sea. The sea has only been at its > current general level for a few thousand years -- in the Holocene. > Therefore, the features we see at the mouth of the Murray have little > to do with the deep time you mention.
> > I note the river you mention was only 100 km long , but to be fair I > > will need to calculate how many millions of cubic km of material has > > run down the said river to establish IF they are really as comparable > > as you say > > SIZE is important TOM
> > I know of local " streams " that do indeed look exactly like the > > rivers you describe
> > BUT fail the the test when SIZE / AGE / and volume are compared , a > > million years and 500 million years , and 100 km and a 3375 km river > > with a million sq km erorion to depth of 3000 meters or 30 meters > > will look quite similar on maps and in pics , but quite different in > > realityhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Perdidorivermap.pnghttp://www.pir.s......
> See above. I don't think the age is relevant. The size may be > relevant, but I did choose the Perdido for its general similarity in > the matter of the size of its flow.
> > I will INDEED with great pleasure mate use you kind assistance to > > further TEST my site
> > It will take time , I will do the maths mate
> > I will use ages / areas / sediment/ erosion comparisons and adjust > > them to see if we can drawn any further evidence from you keen > > observation
> > I remain convinced the site in South Australia will INDEED hold out as > > an ancient mine site as their really is a truly VAST VAST body of > > evidence available for those interested enough to invest their time , > > sadly an ancient mine is south Australia wont ever excite many people > > as we all know it not real hot topic for most people
> I would be very surprised if the Coorong turns out to be anything > other than a dune-like barrier island created by the sand, etc, in the > Murray combined with the long-shore drift glavallin mentioned.
> But I have been very surprised before.
I remember asking people I knew in Adelaide about the offshore islands, which resemble those along the Gulf of Mexico and Eastern United States. Mainly as their future for resorts. Their answer : sharks.
>> >> <kangarooist...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >How long until the EXPERTS admit the Alluvial Fan that should be found >> >> >at the Mouth of the River Murray in South Australia is missing
>That PROVES you own and can use a camera , and I am very impressed >mate
>And you know how beautiful South Australian camels are
>WHY not stick to photography and leave the research to REAL EXPERTS >mate ??
>. >> You see, I do know what you are talking about, and I also know you are >> talking rubbish.
>See mate , there you go AGAIN
>You offer NO proof except your own poorly informed opinion as EVIDENCE >I am wrong
>DESPITE mountains of HARD evidence you remain locked into a state of >denial mate
>Leave the hard bits of the grown ups , mate
The problem is that the 'hard evidence' you keep going on about has, so far, had nothing to do with Casseritite in South Australia. You have been able to produce nothing to suggest that the Coorong was once full of tin.
Instead you rely on the bizarre argument that, seeing there is none there, it has all been taken away! You have completely ignored my counter-argument that it is not casseritite that has been mined, but coal. You don't believe me? Of course the coal has been mined. There is none there.
> >> >> <kangarooist...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >How long until the EXPERTS admit the Alluvial Fan that should be found > >> >> >at the Mouth of the River Murray in South Australia is missing
> >That PROVES you own and can use a camera , and I am very impressed > >mate
> >And you know how beautiful South Australian camels are
> >WHY not stick to photography and leave the research to REAL EXPERTS > >mate ??
> >. > >> You see, I do know what you are talking about, and I also know you are > >> talking rubbish.
> >See mate , there you go AGAIN
> >You offer NO proof except your own poorly informed opinion as EVIDENCE > >I am wrong
> >DESPITE mountains of HARD evidence you remain locked into a state of > >denial mate
> >Leave the hard bits of the grown ups , mate
> The problem is that the 'hard evidence' you keep going on about has, > so far, had nothing to do with Casseritite in South Australia. You > have been able to produce nothing to suggest that the Coorong was once > full of tin.
> Instead you rely on the bizarre argument that, seeing there is none > there, it has all been taken away! You have completely ignored my > counter-argument that it is not casseritite that has been mined, but > coal. You don't believe me? Of course the coal has been mined. There > is none there.
[Default] I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that kangarooistan <kangarooist...@gmail.com> wrote on Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:00:46 -0700 (PDT) in soc.history.what-if :
>How long until the EXPERTS admit the Alluvial Fan that should be found >at the Mouth of the River Murray in South Australia is missing
Two questions: 1) Why would that be significant?
B) What's it to me?
tschus pyotr
- pyotr Filipivich "Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump. Piglet, meet me in transporter room three. Christopher Robin, you have the bridge."
[Default] I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that George <gbl...@hnpl.net> wrote on Wed, 22 Jul 2009 13:46:24 -0700 (PDT) in soc.history.what-if :
>> >> You see, I do know what you are talking about, and I also know you are >> >> talking rubbish.
>> >See mate , there you go AGAIN
>> >You offer NO proof except your own poorly informed opinion as EVIDENCE >> >I am wrong
>> >DESPITE mountains of HARD evidence you remain locked into a state of >> >denial mate
>> >Leave the hard bits of the grown ups , mate
>> The problem is that the 'hard evidence' you keep going on about has, >> so far, had nothing to do with Casseritite in South Australia. You >> have been able to produce nothing to suggest that the Coorong was once >> full of tin.
>> Instead you rely on the bizarre argument that, seeing there is none >> there, it has all been taken away! You have completely ignored my >> counter-argument that it is not casseritite that has been mined, but >> coal. You don't believe me? Of course the coal has been mined. There >> is none there.
>> Eric Stevens
>And the diamonds
Damnation, they got the diamonds, already?
Dag-nabbed claim jumping varmints! I'll bet it was that long ear galoot of a rabbit. Ha! 'took a wrong turn at Albuquerque' my Aunt Minny! I'll bet he got the gold too!
- pyotr Filipivich "Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump. Piglet, meet me in transporter room three. Christopher Robin, you have the bridge."
<ph...@mindspring.com> wrote: >[Default] I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that George ><gbl...@hnpl.net> wrote on Wed, 22 Jul 2009 13:46:24 -0700 (PDT) in >soc.history.what-if :
>>> >> You see, I do know what you are talking about, and I also know you are >>> >> talking rubbish.
>>> >See mate , there you go AGAIN
>>> >You offer NO proof except your own poorly informed opinion as EVIDENCE >>> >I am wrong
>>> >DESPITE mountains of HARD evidence you remain locked into a state of >>> >denial mate
>>> >Leave the hard bits of the grown ups , Źmate
>>> The problem is that the 'hard evidence' you keep going on about has, >>> so far, had nothing to do with Casseritite in South Australia. You >>> have been able to produce nothing to suggest that the Coorong was once >>> full of tin.
>>> Instead you rely on the bizarre argument that, seeing there is none >>> there, it has all been taken away! You have completely ignored my >>> counter-argument that it is not casseritite that has been mined, but >>> coal. You don't believe me? Of course the coal has been mined. There >>> is none there.
>>> Eric Stevens
>>And the diamonds
> Damnation, they got the diamonds, already?
> Dag-nabbed claim jumping varmints! I'll bet it was that long ear >galoot of a rabbit. Ha! 'took a wrong turn at Albuquerque' my Aunt >Minny! > I'll bet he got the gold too!
Nah, that was those damned Portuguese chappies on board the Black Ships ;-)
> >> >> <kangarooist...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >How long until the EXPERTS admit the Alluvial Fan that should be found > >> >> >at the Mouth of the River Murray in South Australia is missing
> >That PROVES you own and can use a camera , and I am very impressed > >mate
> >And you know how beautiful South Australian camels are
> >WHY not stick to photography and leave the research to REAL EXPERTS > >mate ??
> >. > >> You see, I do know what you are talking about, and I also know you are > >> talking rubbish.
> >See mate , there you go AGAIN
> >You offer NO proof except your own poorly informed opinion as EVIDENCE > >I am wrong
> >DESPITE mountains of HARD evidence you remain locked into a state of > >denial mate
> >Leave the hard bits of the grown ups , mate
> The problem is that the 'hard evidence' you keep going on about has, > so far, had nothing to do with Casseritite in South Australia. You > have been able to produce nothing to suggest that the Coorong was once > full of tin.
> Instead you rely on the bizarre argument that, seeing there is none > there, it has all been taken away! You have completely ignored my > counter-argument that it is not casseritite that has been mined, but > coal. You don't believe me? Of course the coal has been mined. There > is none there.
Hi Eric Stevens
still noting to offer mate ??
i was SURE I ask you to go play your games else where , MATE
Be a good boy and leave the big issues for big people , mate
clearly its WAY over your head mate
there is simply no way you could digest such raw facts , please wait until a nice coffee table editions gets produced that is more in keeping with your skill set mate
No offense meant mate
I BET you are real good at lots of stuff
INSIGHT seems not one of your strong points mate
We ALL have our strong and our weak spots
Perhaps I may NEED your skills to produce the COFFEE TABLE version once the REAL WORKS is done mate
the "average joe" will NEVER EVER understand what on earth I refer to , without a NICE COFFEE TABLE version
I actually suspect Im incapable of , or bothering producing "coffee table" glossy presentations , those who KNOW will catch on IF THEY WISH to investigate my evidence , you mate certainly are not one of them
FAR FAR TOO much stuff need sand attracts my time mate to play childish word games with your type
Heres a bit more you need to IGNORE mate, its all RAW unexamined stuff to start a comparison with the EXCELLENT contribution suggested by TOM mac
> > > > > How long until the EXPERTS admit the Alluvial Fan that should be found > > > > > at the Mouth of the River Murray in South Australia is missing
> > > > > Tingha is typical of most rural townships in NSW. It was founded on > > > > > Aboriginal land in the 19th century by Europeans pursuing economic > > > > > opportunities. In the early 19th century the area was used for sheep > > > > > grazing by colonial squatters.
> > > > > Tin ore was discovered at Tingha in 1870 and a thriving mining > > > > > industry developed soon after. Like most mining booms it attracted > > > > > people of all nationalities from all over the world seeking their > > > > > fortune.
> > > > > At the peak of the tin boom in the early 1880s Tingha was the largest > > > > > tin-producing region in NSW and the area attracted a population of > > > > > 4000 5000 of whom approximately 900 were Chinese. The township of > > > > > Tingha started as a mining camp created to accommodate and service the > > > > > population of miners.
> > > > > Somebody removed it 3000 years agohttp://www.nrm.gov.au/business-plan/images/coastcare-coorong.gif > > > > > Alluvial fan > > > > > From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia > > > > > Jump to: navigation, search > > > > > A vast alluvial fan blossoms across the desolate landscape between the > > > > > Kunlun and Altun mountain ranges that form the southern border of the > > > > > Taklamakan Desert in Xinjiang. The left side is the active part of the > > > > > fan, and appears blue from water flowing in the many small streams > > > > > Credit: NASA/GSFC/METI/ERSDAC/JAROS/ASTER > > > > > Alluvial fan in Death Valley > > > > > Alluvial fan in the French Pyrenees
> > > > > An alluvial fan is a fan-shaped deposit formed where a fast flowing > > > > > stream flattens, slows, and spreads typically at the exit of a canyon > > > > > onto a flatter plain. A convergence of neighboring alluvial fans into > > > > > a single apron of deposits against a slope is called a bajada, or > > > > > compound alluvial fan.[1]
> > > > > Owing to the flow as stream gradient decreases, coarse-grained solid > > > > > material carried by the water is dropped. As this reduces the capacity > > > > > of the channel, the channel will change direction over time, gradually > > > > > building up a slightly mounded or shallow conical fan shape. The > > > > > deposits are usually poorly-sorted.[1] [2] This fan shape can also be > > > > > explained with a thermodynamic justification: the system of sediment > > > > > introduced at the apex of the fan will tend to a state which minimizes > > > > > the sum of the transport energy involved in moving the sediment and > > > > > the gravitational potential of material in the cone. There will be iso- > > > > > transport energy lines forming concentric arcs about the discharge > > > > > point at the apex of the fan. Thus the material will tend to be > > > > > deposited equally about these lines, forming the characteristic cone > > > > > shape.
> > > > > [edit] In arid climates
> > > > > Alluvial fans are often found in desert areas subject to periodic > > > > > flash floods from nearby thunderstorms in local hills. They are common > > > > > around the margins of the sedimentary basins of the Basin and Range > > > > > province of southwestern North America. The typical watercourse in an > > > > > arid climate has a large, funnel-shaped basin at the top, leading to a > > > > > narrow defile, which opens out into an alluvial fan at the bottom. > > > > > Multiple braided streams are usually present and active during water > > > > > flows.
> > > > I'm curious as to why you would expect an alluvial fan at the mouth of > > > > the Murray, instead of the dune-like barrier island(s) of the > > > > Coorong?
> > > > Look at a river with a similar average flow rate, the Perdido River > > > > that forms the western border between the American states of Alabama > > > > and Florida. (On Google Maps, I found many similar situations with > > > > other rivers; but the Perdido, as I mentioned, carries a roughly > > > > equivalent amount of water to the Murray.)
> > > > The mouth of the Perdido looks a lot like the mouth of the Murray, > > > > with a bay behind long, dune-like islands. I wonder what mechanism, > > > > other than mining, you think explains the situation at the mouth of > > > > the Perdido? Or do you think that most/all of these landforms are due > > > > to mining?
> > > .THANKS Tom
> > > This is an EXCELLENT find mate
> > > > As for your references to alluvial fans, they refer to the outflow of > > > > rivers onto plains, not into the sea. Seas often have currents that > > > > run across the mouths of rivers, carrying sand, etc, along the coast, > > > > rather than straight out to sea. This results in what we see at the > > > > mouth of the Perdido, and at the mouth of the Murray.
> > > I will examine this site with great pleasure INDEED
> > > It looks almost exactly like the Mouth Of The Murray / Lower Lakes
> > > INDEED
> > > Now I can compare the 2 sites to see IF there is even MORE evidence > > > that 3000 years ago a million tons of HMS / black sand was removed > > > from the site in South Australia
> > > At FIRST casual glance I admit they LOOK similar
> > > My research has considered the volume of material eroded over several > > > MILLION sq km to a depth of 3000 over the last 500 million years that > > > has run down the 3375km Murray Darling SLUICE
> > But that 500 million years figure is not necessarily useful for this > > purpose. One would have to take into account plate tectonics, uplift > > (as well as erosion), and sea levels.
> > My first thought was that the numerous ice ages since the Cambrian > > have lowered sea levels from today's 'normal' level, which would > > result in long-lived rivers having taken much of the previously- > > deposited material far out to sea. The sea has only been at its > > current general level for a few thousand years -- in the Holocene. > > Therefore, the features we see at the mouth of the Murray have little > > to do with the deep time you mention.
> > > I note the river you mention was only 100 km long , but to be fair I > > > will need to calculate how many millions of cubic km of material has > > > run down the said river to establish IF they are really as comparable > > > as you say > > > SIZE is important TOM
> > > I know of local " streams " that do indeed look exactly like the > > > rivers you describe
> > > BUT fail the the test when SIZE / AGE / and volume are compared , a > > > million years and 500 million years , and 100 km and a 3375 km river > > > with a million sq km erorion to depth of 3000 meters or 30 meters > > > will look quite similar on maps and in pics , but quite different in > > > realityhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Perdidorivermap.pnghttp://www.pir.s......
> > See above. I don't think the age is relevant. The size may be > > relevant, but I did choose the Perdido for its general similarity in > > the matter of the size of its flow.
> > > I will INDEED with great pleasure mate use you kind assistance to > > > further TEST my site
> > > It will take time , I will do the maths mate
> > > I will use ages / areas / sediment/ erosion comparisons and adjust > > > them to see if we can drawn any further evidence from you keen > > > observation
> > > I remain convinced the site in South Australia will INDEED hold out as > > > an ancient mine site as their really is a truly VAST VAST body of > > > evidence available for those interested enough to invest their time , > > > sadly an ancient mine is south Australia wont ever excite many people > > > as we all know it not real hot topic for most people
> > I would be very surprised if the Coorong turns out to be anything > > other than a dune-like barrier island created by the sand, etc, in the > > Murray combined with the
> > > > Tingha is typical of most rural townships in NSW. It was founded on > > > > Aboriginal land in the 19th century by Europeans pursuing economic > > > > opportunities. In the early 19th century the area was used for sheep > > > > grazing by colonial squatters.
> > > > Tin ore was discovered at Tingha in 1870 and a thriving mining > > > > industry developed soon after. Like most mining booms it attracted > > > > people of all nationalities from all over the world seeking their > > > > fortune.
> > > > At the peak of the tin boom in the early 1880s Tingha was the largest > > > > tin-producing region in NSW and the area attracted a population of > > > > 4000 5000 of whom approximately 900 were Chinese. The township of > > > > Tingha started as a mining camp created to accommodate and service the > > > > population of miners.
> > > > Somebody removed it 3000 years agohttp://www.nrm.gov.au/business-plan/images/coastcare-coorong.gif > > > > Alluvial fan > > > > From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia > > > > Jump to: navigation, search > > > > A vast alluvial fan blossoms across the desolate landscape between the > > > > Kunlun and Altun mountain ranges that form the southern border of the > > > > Taklamakan Desert in Xinjiang. The left side is the active part of the > > > > fan, and appears blue from water flowing in the many small streams > > > > Credit: NASA/GSFC/METI/ERSDAC/JAROS/ASTER > > > > Alluvial fan in Death Valley > > > > Alluvial fan in the French Pyrenees
> > > > An alluvial fan is a fan-shaped deposit formed where a fast flowing > > > > stream flattens, slows, and spreads typically at the exit of a canyon > > > > onto a flatter plain. A convergence of neighboring alluvial fans into > > > > a single apron of deposits against a slope is called a bajada, or > > > > compound alluvial fan.[1]
> > > > Owing to the flow as stream gradient decreases, coarse-grained solid > > > > material carried by the water is dropped. As this reduces the capacity > > > > of the channel, the channel will change direction over time, gradually > > > > building up a slightly mounded or shallow conical fan shape. The > > > > deposits are usually poorly-sorted.[1] [2] This fan shape can also be > > > > explained with a thermodynamic justification: the system of sediment > > > > introduced at the apex of the fan will tend to a state which minimizes > > > > the sum of the transport energy involved in moving the sediment and > > > > the gravitational potential of material in the cone. There will be iso- > > > > transport energy lines forming concentric arcs about the discharge > > > > point at the apex of the fan. Thus the material will tend to be > > > > deposited equally about these lines, forming the characteristic cone > > > > shape.
> > > > [edit] In arid climates
> > > > Alluvial fans are often found in desert areas subject to periodic > > > > flash floods from nearby thunderstorms in local hills. They are common > > > > around the margins of the sedimentary basins of the Basin and Range > > > > province of southwestern North America. The typical watercourse in an > > > > arid climate has a large, funnel-shaped basin at the top, leading to a > > > > narrow defile, which opens out into an alluvial fan at the bottom. > > > > Multiple braided streams are usually present and active during water > > > > flows.
> > > I'm curious as to why you would expect an alluvial fan at the mouth of > > > the Murray, instead of the dune-like barrier island(s) of the > > > Coorong?
> > > Look at a river with a similar average flow rate, the Perdido River > > > that forms the western border between the American states of Alabama > > > and Florida. (On Google Maps, I found many similar situations with > > > other rivers; but the Perdido, as I mentioned, carries a roughly > > > equivalent amount of water to the Murray.)
> > > The mouth of the Perdido looks a lot like the mouth of the Murray, > > > with a bay behind long, dune-like islands. I wonder what mechanism, > > > other than mining, you think explains the situation at the mouth of > > > the Perdido? Or do you think that most/all of these landforms are due > > > to mining?
> > .THANKS Tom
> > This is an EXCELLENT find mate
> > > As for your references to alluvial fans, they refer to the outflow of > > > rivers onto plains, not into the sea. Seas often have currents that > > > run across the mouths of rivers, carrying sand, etc, along the coast, > > > rather than straight out to sea. This results in what we see at the > > > mouth of the Perdido, and at the mouth of the Murray.
> > I will examine this site with great pleasure INDEED
> > It looks almost exactly like the Mouth Of The Murray / Lower Lakes
> > INDEED
> > Now I can compare the 2 sites to see IF there is even MORE evidence > > that 3000 years ago a million tons of HMS / black sand was removed > > from the site in South Australia
> > At FIRST casual glance I admit they LOOK similar
> > My research has considered the volume of material eroded over several > > MILLION sq km to a depth of 3000 over the last 500 million years that > > has run down the 3375km Murray Darling SLUICE
> But that 500 million years figure is not necessarily useful for this > purpose. One would have to take into account plate tectonics, uplift > (as well as erosion), and sea levels.
> My first thought was that the numerous ice ages since the Cambrian > have lowered sea levels from today's 'normal' level, which would > result in long-lived rivers having taken much of the previously- > deposited material far out to sea. The sea has only been at its > current general level for a few thousand years -- in the Holocene. > Therefore, the features we see at the mouth of the Murray have little > to do with the deep time you mention.
> > I note the river you mention was only 100 km long , but to be fair I > > will need to calculate how many millions of cubic km of material has > > run down the said river to establish IF they are really as comparable > > as you say > > SIZE is important TOM
> > I know of local " streams " that do indeed look exactly like the > > rivers you describe
> > BUT fail the the test when SIZE / AGE / and volume are compared , a > > million years and 500 million years , and 100 km and a 3375 km river > > with a million sq km erorion to depth of 3000 meters or 30 meters > > will look quite similar on maps and in pics , but quite different in > > realityhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Perdidorivermap.pnghttp://www.pir.s......
> See above. I don't think the age is relevant. The size may be > relevant, but I did choose the Perdido for its general similarity in > the matter of the size of its flow.
> > I will INDEED with great pleasure mate use you kind assistance to > > further TEST my site
> > It will take time , I will do the maths mate
> > I will use ages / areas / sediment/ erosion comparisons and adjust > > them to see if we can drawn any further evidence from you keen > > observation
> > I remain convinced the site in South Australia will INDEED hold out as > > an ancient mine site as their really is a truly VAST VAST body of > > evidence available for those interested enough to invest their time , > > sadly an ancient mine is south Australia wont ever excite many people > > as we all know it not real hot topic for most people
> I would be very surprised if the Coorong turns out to be anything > other than a dune-like barrier island created by the sand, etc, in the > Murray combined with the long-shore drift glavallin mentioned.
. > But I have been very surprised before.
AND I have been wrong before toomate
BUT onthis occassion Im quite sure the amount of evidence is simply over whelming
Most of it I have not mentioned as intimate knowledge of the area and Aboriginal languages and ' myths ' and location of various features only make sense on site in
...
> > I remember asking people I knew in Adelaide about the offshore > > islands, which resemble those along the Gulf of Mexico and Eastern > > United States. Mainly as their future for resorts. Their answer : > > sharks.
> YEP not only the biggest mine in ALL history jack
> On Jul 22, 6:27 pm, kangarooistan <kangarooist...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I remember asking people I knew in Adelaide about the offshore > > > islands, which resemble those along the Gulf of Mexico and Eastern > > > United States. Mainly as their future for resorts. Their answer : > > > sharks.
> > YEP not only the biggest mine in ALL history jack
On Jul 23, 2:34 am, glavallin <glaval...@gjlavallin.plus.com> wrote:
> In message <1413e7bf-c341-436d-88db-2315adff2...@m11g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> > Tom McDonald <kilt...@gmail.com> wrote: > > As for your references to alluvial fans, they refer to the outflow of > > rivers onto plains, not into the sea. Seas often have currents that > > run across the mouths of rivers, carrying sand, etc, along the coast, > > rather than straight out to sea.
> Agreed - generally known as Longshore Drift.
> > This results in what we see at the > > mouth of the Perdido, and at the mouth of the Murray.
A very well understood and VISIBLE occurrence seen in HUNDREDS of
"Stranded Beach lines " very well documented and understood
On Jul 22, 10:30 pm, Tom McDonald <kilt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm curious as to why you would expect an alluvial fan at the mouth of > the Murray, instead of the dune-like barrier island(s) of the > Coorong?
YEP the LOOK identical
> Look at a river with a similar average flow rate, the Perdido River > that forms the western border between the American states of Alabama > and Florida. (On Google Maps, I found many similar situations with > other rivers; but the Perdido, as I mentioned, carries a roughly > equivalent amount of water to the Murray.)
YEP they have similar flow
> The mouth of the Perdido looks a lot like the mouth of the Murray, > with a bay behind long, dune-like islands. I wonder what mechanism, > other than mining, you think explains the situation at the mouth of > the Perdido? Or do you think that most/all of these landforms are due > to mining?
the FACT that your river / lakes are only 10% as big hence in the lakes the mouth would be much more likely to remain OPEN , due to increased effective flow IMHO
> As for your references to alluvial fans, they refer to the outflow of > rivers onto plains, not into the sea. Seas often have currents that > run across the mouths of rivers, carrying sand, etc, along the coast, > rather than straight out to sea. This results in what we see at the > mouth of the Perdido, and at the mouth of the Murray.
STILL crunching number but I suspect THIS will account for the main difference between the 2 sites , a SLOWER flow = more sedimentaion
there should be very little in the way of a LAKE or a COORONG in South australia looking at the ancient older beaches seen further INLAND
Lake Alexandrina is a lake in South Australia, Australia, adjacent to the coast of the Southern Ocean, about 100 kilometres south-east of Adelaide.
Lake Alexandrina is located north of Encounter Bay and east of Fleurieu Peninsula.
The Murray River is the major river to flow into Lake Alexandrina. Others include the Bremer, Angas, and Finniss Rivers, all from the eastern side of the southern Mount Lofty Ranges.
The lake is shallow and contains a number of islands near the southern end. The lake empties into the sea near Goolwa (the channel is known as the Murray Mouth), but when the river flow is low the entrance is often blocked by a sand-bar. Originally subjected to tidal and storm inflows of seawater the lake is now maintained as fresh water by a series of barrages across the islands near the Murray Mouth. Lake Albert ( [show location on an interactive map] 35°37′S 139°18′E / 35.617°S 139.3°E / -35.617; 139.3) is a notionally fresh water lake near the mouth of the Murray River. It is filled by water flowing in from Lake Alexandrina at its mouth near Narrung. It is separated on the south by the Narrung Peninsula from the salt-water Coorong. The only major town on the lake is Meningie. Lower Lakes, Coorong and Murray Mouth
An aerial view of the Murray Mouth and Coorong
An aerial view of the Murray Mouth and Coorong Photo: Michael Bell A unique and significant estuary The Lower Lakes, Coorong and Murray Mouth extend over approximately 140,000 hectares, /1,400 sq km /aprox 500 sq miles
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